Bahrain GP 2012 on-track action thread

[Dave B]

I thought it was only right to have a thread dedicated to the on-track events rather than the politics and wider situation in Bahrain.

FP1 ended with Hamilton's McLaren fastest and looking competitive ahead of Vettel, while di Resta's P3 looked awesome but was set on softer tyres as they clearly had already decided to skip FP2. The Mercedes cars once again look promising and will obviously be looking to build on their China result.

Free practice one times:

Pos Driver Team Time Laps

1. Lewis Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes 1m33.572 11
2. Sebastian Vettel Red Bull-Renault 1m33.877s + 0.305 21
3. Paul di Resta Force India-Mercedes 1m34.150s + 0.578 26
4. Nico Rosberg Mercedes 1m34.249s + 0.677 23
5. Jenson Button McLaren-Mercedes 1m34.277s + 0.705 14
6. Nico Hulkenberg Force India-Mercedes 1m34.344s + 0.772 26
7. Michael Schumacher Mercedes 1m34.483s + 0.911 17
8. Mark Webber Red Bull-Renault 1m34.552s + 0.980 22
9. Kimi Raikkonen Lotus-Renault 1m34.609s + 1.037 17
10. Romain Grosjean Lotus-Renault 1m34.847s + 1.275 2011. Sergio Perez Sauber-Ferrari 1m35.024s + 1.452 22
12. Pastor Maldonado Williams-Renault 1m35.268s + 1.696 24
13. Fernando Alonso Ferrari 1m35.436s + 1.864 21
14. Valtteri Bottas Williams-Renault 1m35.497s + 1.925 24
15. Felipe Massa Ferrari 1m35.719s + 2.147 19
16. Kamui Kobayashi Sauber-Ferrari 1m35.929s + 2.357 24
17. Jean-Eric Vergne Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1m36.195s + 2.623 20
18. Heikki Kovalainen Caterham-Renault 1m36.330s + 2.758 11
19. Vitaly Petrov Caterham-Renault 1m36.484s + 2.912 18
20. Daniel Ricciardo Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1m36.591s + 3.019 20
21. Charles Pic Marussia-Cosworth 1m37.467s + 3.895 17
22. Timo Glock Marussia-Cosworth 1m38.006s + 4.434 18
23. Pedro de la Rosa HRT-Cosworth 1m38.877s + 5.305 19
24. Narain Karthikeyan HRT-Cosworth 1m39.996s + 6.424 23

FP2 is underway with Vettel currently fastest and once again the Mercs looking strong - and Force India electing not to run at all.

[truefan72]

I'm not sure what point Force India are trying to prove in FP2
but ultimately it only compromises their own team and drivers
In a sport used to overreactions, Force India's FP2 actions are lame and rather sad

[ShiftingGears]

I'm not sure what point Force India are trying to prove in FP2
but ultimately it only compromises their own team and drivers
In a sport used to overreactions, Force India's FP2 actions are lame and rather sad

What's sad is that members of their staff nearly got firebombed during the week where safety was supposed to be guaranteed. If they feel that their own safety will be jeopardised based on historical precedent (autosport is reporting that friday is a time of particular unrest during these protests), I have no idea why you are objecting to their decision.

[Dave B]

I'm not sure what point Force India are trying to prove in FP2
but ultimately it only compromises their own team and drivers

Sky's Ted Kravitz has been talking to rival engineers who don't think it'll harm their chances too much. We'll see come qualifying, I guess.

Meanwhile Rosberg's gone quickest. Now normally that means nothing as Mercedes usually do set good practice times then fade away over the weekend, but after China who knows?

PS I'd never lecture anybody on how or where to post, but can we make an effort to keep the political talk to the other thread please? :)

[Knock-on]

Haven't seen FP2 yet but Button looked pretty good in FP1. He's going to be one to watch I think.

(ps, agree with Daves view. Lets talk F1)

[F1boat]

Finally time to talk F1 :) So far it seems that McLaren, Mercedes and Red Bull Racing are quite evenly matched. Maybe the race will be very interesting. :)

[P3ws]

Mercedes still looking strong. Second win for Nico?

[Dave B]

FP2 times:


Pos Driver Team Time Laps
1. Nico Rosberg Mercedes 1m32.816s 35
2. Mark Webber Red Bull-Renault 1m33.262s + 0.446 26
3. Sebastian Vettel Red Bull-Renault 1m33.525s + 0.709 28
4. Lewis Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes 1m33.747s + 0.931 26
5. Michael Schumacher Mercedes 1m33.862s + 1.046 31
6. Jenson Button McLaren-Mercedes 1m34.246s + 1.430 28
7. Kamui Kobayashi Sauber-Ferrari 1m34.411s + 1.595 34
8. Fernando Alonso Ferrari 1m34.449s + 1.633 31
9. Romain Grosjean Lotus-Renault 1m34.615s + 1.799 32
10. Sergio Perez Sauber-Ferrari 1m34.893s + 2.077 34
11. Daniel Ricciardo Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1m34.895s + 2.079 29
12. Felipe Massa Ferrari 1m34.941s + 2.125 29
13. Kimi Raikkonen Lotus-Renault 1m35.183s + 2.367 33
14. Jean-Eric Vergne Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1m35.229s + 2.413 26
15. Pastor Maldonado Williams-Renault 1m35.459s + 2.643 38
16. Vitaly Petrov Caterham-Renault 1m35.913s + 3.097 32
17. Heikki Kovalainen Caterham-Renault 1m35.968s + 3.152 35
18. Bruno Senna Williams-Renault 1m36.169s + 3.353 30
19. Timo Glock Marussia-Cosworth 1m36.587s + 3.771 32
20. Charles Pic Marussia-Cosworth 1m37.803s + 4.987 33
21. Pedro de la Rosa HRT-Cosworth 1m37.812s + 4.996 28
22. Narain Karthikeyan HRT-Cosworth 1m39.649s + 6.833 27

Force India did not participate.

[jens]

I have to say it is really difficult to predict F1 right now with competition being so close and so dependant on conditions. In China's cold conditions Mercedes' tyres appeared to be working fine, while Sauber didn't manage to heat them up properly. Now in hot Bahrain it may well be the other way around. Only McLaren seems to be the most consistent car, which can get a podium in all circumstances.

I say Rosberg and Hamilton are favourites for pole position, but I'm not convinced, how will Mercedes perform in the race. There is still a point to prove in different climate now.

I still like to think Sauber is a team to watch, climate should suit them too. I think hot conditions should suit Red Bull as well, who also seems quite gentle on tyres and in colder conditions (in which the opening races were held) struggled to make the tyres perform.

Also only 2 points between Hamilton and Button - let's see, who leaves the flyaway season as the championship leader. Or are we going to have a shock alternative leader? :)

[wedge]

4-stopper on Sunday it is.

Soft tyres look utter junk, lucky to reach double figures on Sunday. What on earth were Pirelli thinking or is it not the same compound that was branded as Mediums last year?

[driveace]

looks like Red bull is trying to copy the Mercedes Rear defuser to front spoiler thing according to what i saw this morning

[F1boat]

Maybe the time has come for a Red Bull victory. Button is concerned about their pace and Nico admitted that Merc will have problems with tyres.

[jens]

Maybe the time has come for a Red Bull victory. Button is concerned about their pace and Nico admitted that Merc will have problems with tyres.

Hmm, it could indeed be RBR's best chance for a race win this season. Incredible to think that we have already had 3 different teams winning a race and none of them is RBR!

In any case, there seem to be at least 5 teams, whose podium place wouldn't be a surprise (McLaren, RBR, Mercedes, Sauber, Lotus). Williams and Ferrari aren't far behind either. It is so tight that even barely with a bad strategy a podium contender can end up down in 10th. Gonna be fascinating. :)

[Tazio]

Wedge and Jens both bring up excellent points. Just a thought, the teams that start on primes may cause the field to bunch up. I don't see the options lasting long enough to get sufficient separation after early pit stops from those on primes, unless someone decides to do a fastest lap on primes in Q3. The penalty may well be less the later you use the options as track position will dictate easier pit strategy decisions and a little less tire wear on low fuel. Of course after pitting they should be able to pass the teams that start on primes as they will be degraded. Then again the fastest car that manages its tires well should still win, although it may have an affect down the finishing order. I don’t know if it will really be a factor. Any thoughts?

[truefan72]

The primes are the mediums and options are the softs Dr.Giacomo
________

I'd say that starting in a top 4 position is very important at Bahrain...usually
but with this year's tire issues, who knows :\

As I see it, those who choose to use softs in Q3 will be going for one run only, as the drop off seems particularly severe
the better option is to qualy on the primes if you are RBR and Mclaren and focus on consistent laps
but on the softs if you are Sauber, lotus and Mercedes and want a top 3 position.
Mercedes might lock out the front row again, but think the rbr's have made an improvent

My Qualy prediction

1. Rosberg - option
2. MSC - option
3. Hamilton - prime
4. Vettel - prime
5. kimi - option
6. Button - prime
7. Webber -prime
8. Grosjean - option
9. Kobayashi - option
10. Maldonado -option

[Zico]

Also only 2 points between Hamilton and Button - let's see, who leaves the flyaway season as the championship leader. Or are we going to have a shock alternative leader? :)


Good post Jens.

Lewis's change in strategy seems to be paying dividends so far but I have this gut feeling that Jensons ability to look after his tyres (when he can get them working :/) is going to swing it in his direction over the course of the season. If tyre sympathy is ever a deciding factor between the two of them at the end of a season.. its going to be this one.

[Tazio]

The primes are the mediums and options are the softs Dr.Giacomo
________

I'd say that starting in a top 4 position is very important at Bahrain...usually
but with this year's tire issues, who knows :\

As I see it, those who choose to use softs in Q3 will be going for one run only, as the drop off seems particularly severe
the better option is to qualy on the primes if you are RBR and Mclaren and focus on consistent laps
but on the softs if you are Sauber, lotus and Mercedes and want a top 3 position.
Mercedes might lock out the front row again, but think the rbr's have made an improvent

My Qualy prediction

1. Rosberg - option
2. MSC - option
3. Hamilton - prime
4. Vettel - prime
5. kimi - option
6. Button - prime
7. Webber -prime
8. Grosjean - option
9. Kobayashi - option
10. Maldonado -option

That's an interesting list! So you really think that many will run primes in Q3, and you suggest there is some merit to my opinion? I think your list contains the right players, depending on if you have nailed the tire choice, it might be quite be quite different. I do think McLaren will split their strategy with Button using options.
I also think Alonso will bump Maldonado.
You know, another miracle :s mokin: ;)


Spelling

[Tazio]

Editing the previous did nothing for my dyslexia. :D

[Tazio]

It looks like a lot of sand blowing on the track!

[EuroTroll]

It looks like a lot of sand blowing on the track!

By the wind of change? :p

[Dave B]

It looks like a lot of sand blowing on the track!
It's OK: Force India are out there hoovering up :D

[Zico]

By the wind of change? :p

The winds of change indeed..

McLaren team boss Martin Whitmarsh said he believed a change in conditions had made the gaps between the drivers look bigger than they actually were

"It was a tricky session," Whitmarsh said.
"The wind swung round about halfway through the session, one of the challenges on this island is the way the wind can change very dramatically and quickly and in its intensity and direction.
The wind turned round so from Turn Four and (through) the fast corners (of Turns Five and Six) it was a tail wind and that really unsettled the car. You saw some cars doing decent times. Nico did a great time, and then Michael (out) at the same time as us was a second slower than his team-mate."

While Hamilton reckons Mercedes are strong favourites for Bahrain..

"I just saw their long (race simulation) run and they were very, very good, I think they've cracked it and they're just as good as us."
He added: "They've pulled something out of the bag. I don't feel we have the pace for pole."

BBC Sport - Formula 1: McLaren's Lewis Hamilton warns of Mercedes threat (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/17790843)

[Tazio]

I expected a little more out of Sauber.

[Zico]

Looks like the Red Bulls (finally) will also be real contenders.. and the closest challengers to Merc. I'm loving the unpredictability of this season so far.. :)

[steveaki13]

Interesting order at the moment.

Red Bull seem stronger than any weekend this season.

Could be interesting to see if Webber or Vettel gets the upper hand with the car looking sharper.

Mercedes look equally competative as the last race, however the heat may cause them problems?

While Mclaren have looked a little concerning this weekend.

They seem as though they may not be a certainty for the front rows as they were in the previous rounds.

Could be an interesting Qualifying session.

[Dave B]

Isn't it nice to go into qualifying with at least three teams capable of pole, instead of simply assuming Vettel will dominate as usual?

[pino]

Isn't it nice to go into qualifying with at least three teams capable of pole, instead of simply assuming Vettel will dominate as usual?


Exactly...compared to last season this year the Q are more exciting :up:

[pino]

Ms out of Q2 ! :s

[Zico]

Schumacher out in Q1!... stupid mistake not going back out as the track rubbered in.

[truefan72]

donkey of the weekend already:
Mercedes engineers and whoever made the call not to send schumi out again

runners up, mclaren team who nearly missed q2 because of the same arrogant strategy

[Tazio]

MS out in Q1 :confused:

[truefan72]

on the flip side, expect schumi to produce a crazy amount of overtaking in the race
Yes MSC did not have a great lap, but the team really did him no favors, shocking!

[AndyL]

Wow. Great work from Kovalainen in Q1, and complacency from Mercedes. Kovalainen just a couple of tenths off the likes of Ferrari, Williams and Force India on the soft tyres.

[Knock-on]

Totally agree. did a scrappy lap and then just relied on the Gurkes at the back to be slow. Well done Kovy :)

[gm99]

Anyone else having trouble with the live timing on f1.com? It just won't load for me.

[AndyL]

In Q2 it's the team formerly known as Renault's turn to be complacent!

gm99 - I was having problems with live timing lagging until half way through Q2, but it seems to have caught up now.

[truefan72]

donkey's keep piling up
Kimi/Renault what are you folks thinking?

great lap by Alonso, proving that despite its difficulty, a great driver can push a car well into q3 while massa continues to toil in the wilderness

[Tazio]

Great action Grosjean in Kimi out. Alonso also found some pace ;)
Great lap from Lewis!

[truefan72]

Renault probably have the worst Qualy/race management team
it's shocking

[truefan72]

well done ricciado to get into q3

[N4D13]

well done ricciado to get into q3

Meanwhile, Vergne didn't get into Q2 as his best lap was more of a second slower than Ricciardo's. Does anyone know if he had any problem with his car? It's surprising at least...

[Tazio]

What tires did Alonso use in his little parade lap?

[truefan72]

damn RBR is back ( are they legal? just kidding)
congrats vettel, I'll take the p2 for hamilton
Ricciado in p6 nice!

[Dave B]

Isn't it nice to go into qualifying with at least three teams capable of pole, instead of simply assuming Vettel will dominate as usual?

I spoke too soon :p

I'd like to doff my metaphorical cap to Daniel Ricciardo, that was a quality lap.

I'm looking forward to seeing how Schumacher fights his way through the field, and also what Kimi can do from 11th with his free choice of tyres. It's certainly going to be a corker of a race!

[pino]

Vettel and Red Bull are back :up:

[F1boat]

Well done, Seb! An inspired lap, I am very happy for the kid. I hope that he wins tomorrow, it will make the season even better. Don't give up, Seb, Red Bull!

[Garry Walker]

Very dissapointing session. Red Bull again by far the fastest car, sadly. Hopefully, and I repeat my wish which I have said before, hopefully bieber crashes out tomorrrow.

Mercedes - why only 1 lap for Rosberg, they had 2 sets of new softs? Bad luck of MS.
Lotus - idiotic strategy for Kimi, everyone could see he wasnt going to make it to Q3 with that time, track was improving all the time.

Most impressive performance of the day - Ricciardo.

[EuroTroll]

Good to see Vettel back on pole, isn't it Garry? :D

Ricciardo really did a brilliant qualy, and is making Vergne look a little bit silly.

Should be an interesting race tomorrow. :up:

[Garry Walker]

Vettel and Red Bull are back :up:

Red Bull never was away, their problem was that they have mediocre drivers. They were at least as fast as McLaren in the first 3 races, if not faster.

[Garry Walker]

Good to see Vettel back on pole, isn't it Garry? :D


When I see him crash tomorrow, I will enjoy it even more :D

[N4D13]

What tires did Alonso use in his little parade lap?
He must have used hard tyres, if only because he'd used up all his softs and he wouldn't have liked to put more laps on them.

[Tazio]

So he will be starting on virtually new primes

[A FONDO]

What an amazing Q2, first 14 cars in 0,7 secs!

[truefan72]

Very dissapointing session. Red Bull again by far the fastest car, sadly. Hopefully, and I repeat my wish which I have said before, hopefully bieber crashes out tomorrow.


if by far you mean .0098 seconds faster than hamilton lol

and as to your continued sad and rather morbid wish for the p5 car of Rosberg to crash out, all I can say is that something's really got to be twisted with your thinking and I don;t understand how you can be a fan of this sport

[Dave B]

and as to your continued sad and rather morbid wish for the p5 car of Rosberg to crash out, all I can say is that something's really got to be twisted with your thinking and I don;t understand how you can be a fan of this sport
Moronic though it is to hope for anybody to crash, you're confusing Bieber with Britney ;)

[Garry Walker]

if by far you mean .0098 seconds faster than hamilton lol

and as to your continued sad and rather morbid wish for the p5 car of Rosberg to crash out, all I can say is that something's really got to be twisted with your thinking and I don;t understand how you can be a fan of this sport
Rosberg? I have nothing against Rosberg, I am not a fan, but nor do I have anything against him.

[Zico]

Red Bull never was away, their problem was that they have mediocre drivers. They were at least as fast as McLaren in the first 3 races, if not faster.

Mediocre drivers? Yes Mark has been inconsistant in the past.. but what exactly is it that makes you think Vettel is a 'mediocre driver?... I think he is up there in the top 5-6 drivers on the grid so a bit harsh Imo.

[Warriwa]

Red Bull never was away, their problem was that they have mediocre drivers. They were at least as fast as McLaren in the first 3 races, if not faster.

Garry, do you honestly believe that Vettel and Webber are mediocre drivers?

[jens]

Another great qualifying session! Thought Vettel’s pole was a slight surprise, because during Q1 and Q2 it looked like Rosberg and Hamilton are favourites, but nonetheless RBR was very close all the time and it was almost an even fight between three teams!

Also we got another indication, how tight the field this year is. Toro Rosso and Force India, who have been a bit in the shadow in the opening rounds, managed to get a car into Q3 – Ricciardo even as high as sixth! :eek:

Congrats to Caterham – by far their best performance to-date! :up: Kovalainen with his last lap managed to be right at the heels of the established teams and even beat two cars.

Tomorrow? Perhaps Vettel is the favourite to win, considering RBR is considered to be looking nicely after its tyres. McLaren should podium again. Hard to see Rosberg moving upwards, he is more likely facing a drop backwards. Due to degradation Schumi might find it difficult to progress too.

Midfield is going to be exciting. Toro Rosso and Force India are wild cards. Sauber should strongly feature in competition for points. Like in China, I think Williams has a strong race pace too. But poor qualifying might be fateful to them, so they need smart strategy to gain points.

Regarding Räikkönen I don’t the situation is that bad. It looked like he managed to save lots of tyres as I saw him going out and setting a time only twice during the whole qualifying?! While Mercedes cocked up with Schumi, I think it is a calculated gamble for Lotus-Kimi. The only problems are going to be potential accidents and getting held up in the midfield scrap tomorrow.


Red Bull never was away, their problem was that they have mediocre drivers. They were at least as fast as McLaren in the first 3 races, if not faster.

Garry, perhaps it would be useful for the whole forum discussion if you actually tried to explain things instead of confusing people. Maybe you can describe, in which way is Vettel’s performance underwhelming and he didn’t manage to perform well, prompting you to say „it was all car“?

I see a driver taking a fine pole position in the dying moments of qualifying and thought it was a neat performance. Perhaps you can pinpoint to a weakness in his driving, which makes you think he is doing badly? Only then we can understand you better, because at the moment it is difficult to see the point you are trying to make.

[Garry Walker]

Garry, perhaps it would be useful for the whole forum discussion if you actually tried to explain things instead of confusing people. Maybe you can describe, in which way is Vettel’s performance underwhelming and he didn’t manage to perform well, prompting you to say „it was all car“? Did you read what I said? I didn't say anywhere Bieber was awful today, I just said he had the fastest car. Which he did. I remember you claiming the same about McLaren at Australia, what did you base that on? That Hamilton took pole? Yet I cant do the same for Bieber?



I see a driver taking a fine pole position in the dying moments of qualifying and thought it was a neat performance. Perhaps you can pinpoint to a weakness in his driving, which makes you think he is doing badly? Only then we can understand you better, because at the moment it is difficult to see the point you are trying to make. I said that there was nothing wrong with Red Bull in the first 3 races, that it was at least as fast as McLaren (I have posted relevant data on that for Australia, for example), their drivers kept making mistakes and underperforming in a very fast car. Today they performed better and used the advantage they had with their car. Nowhere have I said that Red Bull drivers were awful today or sucked. But they did have the fastest car. Race should be quite easy for them.


Garry, do you honestly believe that Vettel and Webber are mediocre drivers? There are several drivers better than either Bieber or Webber, I don't consider either of them a top 3 driver.


Mediocre drivers? Yes Mark has been inconsistant in the past.. but what exactly is it that makes you think Vettel is a 'mediocre driver?... I think he is up there in the top 5-6 drivers on the grid so a bit harsh Imo. 5-6 might just be the place where Bieber ranks in the todays drivers rankings.

[jens]

Did you read what I said? I didn't say anywhere Bieber was awful today, I just said he had the fastest car. Which he did. I remember you claiming the same about McLaren at Australia, what did you base that on? That Hamilton took pole? Yet I cant do the same for Bieber?

I said that there was nothing wrong with Red Bull in the first 3 races, that it was at least as fast as McLaren (I have posted relevant data on that for Australia, for example), their drivers kept making mistakes and underperforming in a very fast car. Today they performed better and used the advantage they had with their car. Nowhere have I said that Red Bull drivers were awful today or sucked. But they did have the fastest car. Race should be quite easy for them.


Good on you, Garry, that you keep recording every single mistake and underperformance Vettel has had - to later claim that he isn't particularly good. But what about other drivers? Why don't you record their underperformances, mistakes? Button isn't good at heating up tyres, Hamilton at managing them, etc? So if you look around, you can find faults in everyone. In the end it balances out.

You said that you didn't claim RBR drivers "were awful" today, but in an earlier post you implied that their car is by far the fastest (which as an expression sounds like domination).


Red Bull again by far the fastest car, sadly.

In this case getting a pole by less than 0.1 seconds sounds quite weak? Hence my question about Seb's pole lap.

Also last year you claimed quite often Vettel's car is a second a lap quicker than anyone else's. Even if he got pole by 0.1 seconds. If you interpret it directly, this sounds like he is losing almost a second a lap on pure speed to other drivers.

[Garry Walker]

Good on you, Garry, that you keep recording every single mistake and underperformance Vettel has had - to later claim that he isn't particularly good. But what about other drivers? Why don't you record their underperformances, mistakes? Button isn't good at heating up tyres, Hamilton at managing them, etc? So if you look around, you can find faults in everyone. In the end it balances out. I have never shied away from attacking any driver, including those who are my favourites. Hamilton and Button both have received a fair load of attacks from.



You said that you didn't claim RBR drivers "were awful" today, but in an earlier post you implied that their car is by far the fastest (which as an expression sounds like domination).
In this case getting a pole by less than 0.1 seconds sounds quite weak? Hence my question about Seb's pole lap.

Red Bull was clearly faster today, that is obvious to me. Hamilton was very happy about his lap today and said he got everything from the car, yet was still beaten. As for them being awful today, I didn't say that which you well know, but I do happen to rate Button and Hamilton higher as drivers.

Which car was faster today in your view? Or do you still subscribe to this view that you took at the australian GP about McLaren being the fastest car even if facts don't support that view?

[truefan72]

Moronic though it is to hope for anybody to crash, you're confusing Bieber with Britney ;)

lol my bad
still doesn't change my sentiment

[jens]

Which car was faster today in your view?

Hmm... These are questions that often don't have a straightforward answer, especially if competition is tight. RBR, McLaren and Mercedes were trading fastest times in turns and were within tenth or two of each other throughout qualifying. Even if RBR was fastest, it was by the most minimal advantage.

[Dave B]

Put it like this: I saw a lot of drivers making small errors in qualifying, but I don't remember a mistake from Vettel. He deserved that pole, fair and square.

[Zico]

Put it like this: I saw a lot of drivers making small errors in qualifying, but I don't remember a mistake from Vettel. He deserved that pole, fair and square.

He sure did... I'm just pleased he didn't achieve it by a huge margin, another season of Vettel/Red Bull domination would be a miserable one!

[pino]

He sure did... I'm just pleased he didn't achieve it by a huge margin, another season of Vettel/Red Bull domination would be a miserable one!

I feel in the same way ;)

[Zico]

I feel in the same way ;)


In saying that.. when they were talking to Horner afterwards he said that to get pole in Bahrain was a great acheivement as the circuit does not play to the cars strengths... it doesn't bode well does it? It wasn't difficult to see that the Red Bull was visably very quick, that they had clearly made a big move forwards with the car. Adrian Newey is a genius.. I'm now fearing the worst for the remainder of the season. :(

[jens]

Motor racing-Force India wrapped in F1 invisibility cloak | Reuters (http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/04/21/motor-racing-prix-forceindia-idUKL3E8FL0A220120421)

I have to say that one additional scandal is arising and it shows Bernie & FOM in an extremely bad light - even more so than the Bahrain debacle in general. Whoever was watching qualifying, may have noticed that Force India cars were boycotted on TV feed. Incredible bullying tactics, if true. :s

[pino]

Hopefully Red Bull won't start to dominate the same way they did the last 2 years, actually I am almost sure they won't ;)

[Dave B]

Slight possibility of rain for the race according to a BBC forecaster:


F1 BAHRAIN: F'cast models agree on increasing cloud Sunday (will influence track temp) & some now concur re UKMO view of light showers poss.13 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite

[Zico]

Motor racing-Force India wrapped in F1 invisibility cloak | Reuters (http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/04/21/motor-racing-prix-forceindia-idUKL3E8FL0A220120421)

I have to say that one additional scandal is arising and it shows Bernie & FOM in an extremely bad light - even more so than the Bahrain debacle in general. Whoever was watching qualifying, may have noticed that Force India cars were boycotted on TV feed. Incredible bullying tactics, if true. :s

Incredible if true but doesn't really surprise the cynic in me. Dont ever cross Bernie eh? It would be very interesting to see some Force India cars coverage percentage figure comparisons.

[CaptainRaiden]

Oh well, Vettel's finger is back. And I was happy assuming we won't have to see that wretched finger again at least for 2012. :(

What I heard the commentators talking on the Sky feed was that Mclaren used all three practice sessions fine tuning their car's performance using the soft tyre over a race distance. Would this help them in the race? Can Lewis keep up with the Red Bull and beat Vettel maybe?

Good to know at least they're working hard on their tyre issues, which would be crucial against the Bulls on race day.

[Big Ben]

did he scream?

[driveace]

That is one thing we don't want,a dominant Red Bull,otherwise what has started out as the best closest racing for years,turns into a RB year again.Thus we all lose interest again .Let's just hope we don't see that finger too often !

[JasonPotato]

There's only 1 finger i would like to give Vettel! I have to agree with Garry in that i would like to see him crash or get a puncture but he's the only driver i wish this upon. I can't see Red Bull dominating this season as Mercedes and Mclaren are much stronger than before but i could see Hamilton getting another 3rd tomorrow. I'm going to stick my neck out and say Webber will win.

[truefan72]

Motor racing-Force India wrapped in F1 invisibility cloak | Reuters (http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/04/21/motor-racing-prix-forceindia-idUKL3E8FL0A220120421)

I have to say that one additional scandal is arising and it shows Bernie & FOM in an extremely bad light - even more so than the Bahrain debacle in general. Whoever was watching qualifying, may have noticed that Force India cars were boycotted on TV feed. Incredible bullying tactics, if true. :s

agreed. :up:

[driveace]

But Paul Di Resta qualified in 10th today.So good quail,and maybe it good be a good omen for FOrce India.

[SGWilko]

But Paul Di Resta qualified in 10th today.So good quail,and maybe it good be a good omen for FOrce India.

More to the point, will Charlie Whiting ban or will Lotus protest the use of an invisibility cloak by Force India, and will J K Rowling sue for copyright infringement???? :p

[truefan72]

Force India silent on TV exposure claims during qualifying in Bahrain - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/99062)

the more I read about this controversy, the more upset I get at Bernie
what a clown

[Tazio]

Force India silent on TV exposure claims during qualifying in Bahrain - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/99062)

the more I read about this controversy, the more upset I get at Bernie
what a clown

The guy is a real tool, and this is par for the course in Bernie World :down:

[Garry Walker]

Hmm... These are questions that often don't have a straightforward answer, especially if competition is tight. RBR, McLaren and Mercedes were trading fastest times in turns and were within tenth or two of each other throughout qualifying. Even if RBR was fastest, it was by the most minimal advantage. Yeah, when McLaren poles they are clearly the dominant and fastest car, when Red Bull does it, it is not about the car. Got it.


Put it like this: I saw a lot of drivers making small errors in qualifying, but I don't remember a mistake from Vettel. He deserved that pole, fair and square. bieber locked up in Q1 on his lap and made a mistake on his first lap in Q2. Hamilton and Button, IIRC, locked up once both.

[F1boat]

Some people are way too passionate, wishing a driver ill fortune, especially on this wretched place. Besides, one pole means nothing and I think that if Seb wins, this will be great for the sport. It will mean that there is a 4th different winner in a 4th different car in as many races. This is the best way to start a season.

[Garry Walker]

Some people are way too passionate, wishing a driver ill fortune, especially on this wretched place.
It is not like I wished for him to get injured on the track or get killed off the track.

[jens]

Yeah, when McLaren poles they are clearly the dominant and fastest car, when Red Bull does it, it is not about the car. Got it.


Not really. For example in Malaysia, where McLaren locked out the whole front row, I'd say their advantage was absolutely minimal and arguable as there were four teams within 2-3 tenths.

[Garry Walker]

Not really. For example in Malaysia, where McLaren locked out the whole front row, I'd say their advantage was absolutely minimal and arguable as there were four teams within 2-3 tenths.

Come race day at Malaysia, Red Bull was probably faster than McLaren. Funnily enough, that has been the case in all races so far (in racepace, Red Bull is at least as fast if not superior to McLaren). Red Bull will easily run away with the race today, I fear.

[F1boat]

As I said on previous thread, every race has its own order, so the season might turn to be a classic. A Red Bull win today will spice the championship even more. :)

[jens]

Come race day at Malaysia, Red Bull was probably faster than McLaren. Funnily enough, that has been the case in all races so far (in racepace, Red Bull is at least as fast if not superior to McLaren). Red Bull will easily run away with the race today, I fear.

Faster than McLaren? I'm not so sure. In some phases of the race, yes, but we are talking about the whole Grand Prix. It can be explained with car characteristics. For example RBR has struggled to heat up the tyres, they have been fast mainly at the end of stints. Recall Australia - after safety car restart Button was pulling away and Vettel found pace only in the final laps.

Last year it was the other way around. There were several races, where RBR/Vettel was pulling away after starts and McLaren/Button was flying in the final laps of the race, when it was too late. Singapore comes to mind.

Let's see, what happens today. Of course it is possible that teams have setup their cars differently, meaning that RBR has tried to find more single-lap pace and McLaren has been concentrating more on the race. So everything is not clear yet.

[pino]

It is not like I wished for him to get injured on the track or get killed off the track.

Still it's stupid and childish wishing a driver a crash/incident, may I suggest you stop posting that...dunno how long I will tollerate it :)

[Garry Walker]

Still it's stupid and childish wishing a driver a crash/incident, may I suggest you stop posting that...dunno how long I will tollerate it :)

LOL.
So if he crashes and and I celebrate (and I will) I shouldn't say that either?

[SGWilko]

...dunno how long I will tollerate it :)

Ummmm, are you typing that while sniggering and stroking your long haired white cat on your lap???? :laugh:

[Dave B]

Gearbox change and 5 place penalty for MSC, sensible considering his qualifying.

[Knock-on]

Still it's stupid and childish wishing a driver a crash/incident, may I suggest you stop posting that...dunno how long I will tollerate it :)

It is stupid and childish but the is is a lot worse on this forum. Garry has never expressed a wish to see any driver injured so can't see why he should be sanctioned?

Just my tuppence worth :)

[pino]

It is stupid and childish but the is is a lot worse on this forum. Garry has never expressed a wish to see any driver injured so can't see why he should be sanctioned?

Just my tuppence worth :)

Who said he will be sanctioned ? :confused: don't you know that posts can be deleted/edited ? ;)

[Dave B]

Much cooler and the threat of rain, that could spice things up a bit!

[zako85]

So, who are the most likely winners? My subjective probabilities are: Vettlel 60% win probability, Hamilton 35%, everyone else 5%.

[jens]

So, who are the most likely winners? My subjective probabilities are: Vettlel 60% win probability, Hamilton 35%, everyone else 5%.

In a race with high tyre degradation and a lot of tricky strategy Button is often a wild card.

[F1boat]

Possible rain for the race? Drizzling at present apparently.

What? In Bahrain? Wow.

[driveace]

Think the winner will look after his tyres and 2 stop only ,could be Button ,even Rosberg could be kind to tyres too

[F1boat]

I hope that Seb wins, 4th different car, 4th different winner. This will be great :)

[Dave B]

I hope that Seb wins, 4th different car, 4th different winner. This will be great :)
Well if we're applying that system I'd rather see Mark or Kimi on the top step :D

[Dave B]

Don't forget this link for timing if the F1.com site has problems (DDOS or otherwise!)
http://f1live.uni.me/tlive/
:)

[F1boat]

Well if we're applying that system I'd rather see Mark or Kimi on the top step :D

I prefer Seb to Mark, who sometimes seem bitter to me, kinda like Rubens. If Raikkonen wins, this will be huge.

[i_max2k2]

I prefer Seb to Mark, who sometimes seem bitter to me, kinda like Rubens. If Raikkonen wins, this will be huge.

How about a super outside chance of Schumi, somehow magically appearing on the top step today.

[Zico]

Possible rain for the race? Drizzling at present apparently.

Apart from the odd spot of rain falling its not showing anything atall on the weather radars.. so proper rain will be very unlikely I think. Track temps are right down though 32-34 Deg iirc. If Red Bull have moved forwards for the reasons Jens suggested this should suit them well..

[AndyL]

Don't forget this link for timing if the F1.com site has problems (DDOS or otherwise!)
http://f1live.uni.me/tlive/
:)

404! Does it only come up during the race?

[pino]

If cannot be Alonso then I want my FGP driver Grosjean to win :D

[Zico]

I dont mind who wins as long as its on merit, I have a gut feeling that its gonna be Vettel today.

[Garry Walker]

3 seconds after 2 laps, Red Bull ridicolously quicker than any other car as predicted. Sad.

[truefan72]

rosberg deserves a drive thru

[Garry Walker]

rosberg deserves a drive thru

For what? Not bending over?

[truefan72]

stupid mclaren pit crew!!!

[truefan72]

For what? Not bending over?

no different than msc on rubems in hungary

[truefan72]

stupid lotus team, bring kimi in!

[truefan72]

WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
why is it a problem on hamilton's car but not on button!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Garry Walker]

So where are those people who kept saying McLaren is the best car? Hiding in shame?

Nice defence by Rosberg, he has grown balls.

[truefan72]

rosberg is close to being black flagged!

[Garry Walker]

Stop crying alonso you little baby.

Massa - just 1 second behind Alonso, not bad.

[Zico]

So where are those people who kept saying McLaren is the best car? Hiding in shame?

Its not the car, its just their mediocre drivers Gary. ;)

[Garry Walker]

Its not the car, its just their mediocre drivers Gary. ;)

Bieber is a cockroach talentwise compared to Button and Hamilton.

Meanwhile, this race is decided, the best car has won. Think I can find another hobby for sundays for the year.

[Zico]

Bieber is a cockroach talentwise compared to Button and Hamilton.

Meanwhile, this race is decided, the best car has won. Think I can find another hobby for sundays for the year.

I think McLaren set their car up for race distance with higher track temps in mind and coupled with dodgy pit stops for Lewis have been caught out by temps 10-11 Deg cooler than yesterday, Button again struggling to get his front tyres to work, continually dialing in more front wing each pitstop.. meanwhile Red Bull set theirs up with qualifying in mind and the cooler temps have really played right into their hands.

[Garry Walker]

I think McLaren set their car up for race distance with higher track temps in mind and coupled with dodgy pit stops for Lewis have been caught out by temps 10-11 Deg cooler than yesterday, Button again struggling to get his front tyres to work, continually dialing in more front wing each pitstop.. meanwhile Red Bull set theirs up with qualifying in mind and the cooler temps have really played right into their hands.

Do you have any proof for that

[Warriwa]

I think McLaren set their car up for race distance with higher track temps in mind and coupled with dodgy pit stops for Lewis have been caught out by temps 10-11 Deg cooler than yesterday, Button again struggling to get his front tyres to work, continually dialing in more front wing each pitstop.. meanwhile Red Bull set theirs up with qualifying in mind and the cooler temps have really played right into their hands.

Into Vettel's hands.

[spudrsca]

Ahaha Button.
Great for Mclaren to always give him the best strategy on the races and not Lewis.

[Zico]

Do you have any proof for that

No definate proof, no.. its just an opinion. When Brundle was talking to Whitmarsh yesterday, they were discussing tyre degradation and how they had done a lot of work to ensure they had better race pace for the higher track temps this weekend, my opinion is just simple logic based on that..


Into Vettel's hands.

Yes, well, Mark is also ahead of both..

[spudrsca]

Mclaren are clearly the donkey of the season so far.

[truefan72]

I fully expect rosberg to be DQ'd from this race

[Garry Walker]

No definate proof, no.. its just an opinion. When Brundle was talking to Whitmarsh yesterday, they were discussing tyre degradation and how they had done a lot of work to ensure they had better race pace for this weekend, my opinion is just simple logic based on that..

He can talk about it, the problem is that their tyres were dead after 7-8 laps in the first stint, not because they couldnt get it working, but they had used them too much.

Nice that some guys can still talk normally on the radio after a good race and not scream like Jimmy Sommerville (bieber, alonso)

[truefan72]

mclaren cost hamilton at least 4 spots in this race
it was a shameful performance by the team that let this driver down

[F1boat]

Fantastic race, I am very happy for both Seb and Kimi, they made a great duel of champions, awesome. McLaren no pace at all and lots of problems, what happened with the team which dominated Oz?

[Garry Walker]

Fantastic race, I am very happy for both Seb and Kimi, they made a great duel of champions, awesome. McLaren no pace at all and lots of problems, what happened with the team which dominated Oz?

Here is the thing - McLaren didn't dominate there. Once Bieber overtook the Mercedes guys he was FASTER than either of the McLaren guys. So the talks of dominance of McLaren there are the kind of talks which should not be brought into an intelligent discussion.

This season is as good as over - Red Bull is the fastest and best car, especially considering they didn't think Bahrain would be a good track for them.

[gloomyDAY]

Ferrari logic: get rid of Kimi for bags of money and bring in Alonso; make a car that can't compete with the top teams.

(Shut up. Malaysia was a watery fluke!)

[Dave B]

McLaren had a nightmare, terrible stops for Lewis and engine trouble for Jenson to compound the misery of his diabolical start. Certainly a race to forget for them.

Lotus were certainly team of the race, both drivers made superb starts and Kimi looked on for a win at one point. P2 and P3 is a fantastic result.

Schumacher did well to salvage a point from P22 on the grid, and he might pick up another one if Rosberg is penalised as he surely should be for pushing Alonso off the track limits.

It wasn't the most action-packed race ever, but at least it passed without incident.

[pino]

Amazing result for Grosjean and very happy to see Kimi back on podium too :up:

[F1boat]

McLaren had a nightmare, terrible stops for Lewis and engine trouble for Jenson to compound the misery of his diabolical start. Certainly a race to forget for them.

Lotus were certainly team of the race, both drivers made superb starts and Kimi looked on for a win at one point. P2 and P3 is a fantastic result.

Schumacher did well to salvage a point from P22 on the grid, and he might pick up another one if Rosberg is penalised as he surely should be for pushing Alonso off the track limits.

It wasn't the most action-packed race ever, but at least it passed without incident.

IMO it was a great race, a classic duel between great champions.

[gloomyDAY]

Here is the thing - McLaren didn't dominate there. Once Bieber overtook the Mercedes guys he was FASTER than either of the McLaren guys. So the talks of dominance of McLaren there are the kind of talks which should not be brought into an intelligent discussion.

This season is as good as over - Red Bull is the fastest and best car, especially considering they didn't think Bahrain would be a good track for them.intr.v. whinged, whing·ing, whing·es: To complain or protest, especially in an annoying or persistent manner.

[Dave B]

IMO it was a great race, a classic duel between great champions.
I'm just disappointed that Kimi's challenge came to nothing. At one point he was catching Vettel and it looked like only a matter of time before he passed, but it all went a bit Pete Tong. Don't get me wrong, 2nd was a fantastic result, I just wish we could have seen them properly battling for the lead.

[F1boat]

intr.v. whinged, whing·ing, whing·es: To complain or protest, especially in an annoying or persistent manner.

+1 The season no nowhere near over, 4 races, 4 different winners, maybe 5 or 6 competitive teams, so far, so good.

[Garry Walker]

Ferrari logic: get rid of Kimi for bags of money and bring in Alonso; make a car that can't compete with the top teams.

(Shut up. Malaysia was a watery fluke!)

They can thank Montezoomolo for that. Here's the thing - Ferrari didn't listen to what Kimi wanted, instead they concentrated on what Massa wanted from the car (totally different styles) and on the arrival of Alonso. The problem was that Massa, while for a time being my favourite driver, just was not as good as Kimi overall and nor was Alonso an improvement over Kimi. No titles since then, no title coming this year, nor will any title come next year. Great job Montezoomolo, maybe if you beg on your knees Todt will come back and save your pathetic ass.

[Garry Walker]

+1 The season no nowhere near over, 4 races, 4 different winners, maybe 5 or 6 competitive teams, so far, so good.

Red Bull will dominate the remaining races easily.

[gloomyDAY]

Red Bull will dominate the remaining races easily.Hey, everyone! Over here!! Garry has a crystal ball.

[Garry Walker]

Hey, everyone! Over here!! Garry has a crystal ball.

I am right once again. I am willing to take bets on that, so sure am I of the Red Bull's continued dominance.

[donKey jote]

Hey, everyone! Over here!! Garry has a crystal ball.

so that's why he's shooting blanks :p

[Tazio]

The WDC standings are really tight at the top!

[jens]

Bieber is a cockroach talentwise compared to Button and Hamilton.

Meanwhile, this race is decided, the best car has won. Think I can find another hobby for sundays for the year.

Best car? :p : I saw Lotus being faster than RBR. Going by your Australian GP argument, where you claim that RBR was much better, then I have to say Lotus was much faster today, because they were lapping faster than Vettel once in clean air and actually caught him despite poor grid positions. ;)


Red Bull will dominate the remaining races easily.

How can RBR dominate if they have a driver as average as Vettel? Surely if other teams can be at least half-competitive, they would easily outrace Vettel's Red Bull?

[F1boat]

Red Bull will dominate the remaining races easily.

we have to wait and see about that.

[Garry Walker]

Best car? :p : I saw Lotus being faster than RBR. Going by your Australian GP argument, where you claim that RBR was much better, then I have to say Lotus was much faster today, because they were lapping faster than Vettel once in clean air and actually caught him despite poor grid positions. ;) They had different tyres on and Kimi used the advantage of having new tyres from qualy. In the last stint where both had mediums, I think, bieber opened a gap quickly and KR had no chance.
As for Australia, find me a quote from me saying Red Bull was MUCH better there or once again, retreat your misquotation of me.


How can RBR dominate if they have a driver as average as Vettel? Surely if other teams can be at least half-competitive, they would easily outrace Vettel's Red Bull?
Again, I have nowhere said bieber is an average driver, do you get paid for misquoting people all the time? This is getting weird already. I have maintained that he is not a top 3 driver and there are clearly better drivers than him in F1. Average driver is someone like Petrov.
But you don't need the best driver to dominate, best car will do and Red Bull easily have that.

[jens]

Okay, generally about the race. I have to say that I have cocked up some things. McLaren is after all not a „universal car“, which can podium in all conditions. And Sauber isn’t as good as I thought either – it looks like they have merely a narrow performance window in which they can maximize the potential of the car.

In any case. In Malaysia we had Ferrari and Sauber competing for the win. In China Mercedes and McLaren. Now Red Bull and Lotus. So in three races six different teams have been at the front. ;)

That RBR can manage tyres better than McLaren, was perhaps expected. But the gap was much bigger than thought. The big surprise here was Lotus. So far they had shown glimpses of potential, but we hadn’t got a conclusive answer, how good can they be. But now Lotus showed that in the right circumstances they can even have absolute front-running pace. Let’s see, how often can they replicate this during the rest of the season. Also 3rd in the WCC – nice effort. :)

Pity about Ricciardo that such a great grid slot went to waste. Oh well, better luck next time.

Before the race I was wondering, which McLaren driver will leave the Bahrain GP as the championship leader. And the answer quite stunningly is – none of them! That’s how fascinating the season has been so far. The championship is still wide open and to be honest, I don’t dare to predict the order in Spain, because so far every race has been unpredictable. But one would expect top teams – particularly McLaren and RBR – gain more and more consistency as season progresses. And as a result surprises are likely to occur more and more rarely.

[jens]

Again, I have nowhere said bieber is an average driver, do you get paid for misquoting people all the time? This is getting weird already. I have maintained that he is not a top 3 driver and there are clearly better drivers than him in F1. Average driver is someone like Petrov.
But you don't need the best driver to dominate, best car will do and Red Bull easily have that.

Good that you clarify that. Because going by how you speak about Vettel, it sounds like he is a pretty bad driver. And if you often talk about 1-second car advantage (last year you mentioned it often, hope you don't need quotes), even if he wins by a fraction of a second, it leaves an impression of him being a very bad driver - losing almost a second a lap to direct opposition. In addition - regardless of what Vettel does, even if he wins, you never praise him. So this leaves an impression of him not being capable of doing anything impressive as a driver. Even Petrov, who you mentioned, has been impressive on occasion, hasn't he?

Misquoting you? Perhaps it is the way of writing, which contains exaggerations. Hence the misunderstandings by my part. If in every race thread you shout that Vettel is lucky to have a dominant car (if he wins) or his "true level" is shown up in equal cars (if he loses), then what am I supposed to think? With balanced analysis we can reach better understanding. :)

[airshifter]

I fully expect rosberg to be DQ'd from this race

Did anyone get any coverage that showed overhead shots or at least higher angle shots? I rewound several times on the DVR, but with the angles we got couldn't really tell if he pushed anyone or not. In Hamiltons case it appeared to me that he was behind Nico until he drove himself off track. With Alonso it was harder to tell, but nothing for sure.

[gm99]

Fun fact:
In Sepang, Ferrari-powered cars finished 1-2.
In China, Mercedes-powered cars were 1-2-3.
Today, it was a Renault 1-2-3-4.

[Marbles]

Did anyone get any coverage that showed overhead shots or at least higher angle shots? I rewound several times on the DVR, but with the angles we got couldn't really tell if he pushed anyone or not. In Hamiltons case it appeared to me that he was behind Nico until he drove himself off track. With Alonso it was harder to tell, but nothing for sure.

So you can swerve to defend in F1? I thought they were cracking down on that. After Hamilton's pass, Rosberg has the chutzpath to radio in that Hamilton passed off the race course. Coulthard seemed to think Hamilton had more to worry about than Rosberg did.

[Tazio]

Did anyone get any coverage that showed overhead shots or at least higher angle shots? I rewound several times on the DVR, but with the angles we got couldn't really tell if he pushed anyone or not. In Hamiltons case it appeared to me that he was behind Nico until he drove himself off track. With Alonso it was harder to tell, but nothing for sure.

http://s13.postimage.org/suww3j8br/RTL_Television_2012_04_22_14_48_31.jpg

I think this is the best shot you are going to get. NR rode him off the track. Alonso looks like he is a half of a car length behind him but that is after was fully on the dirt. I think it was a little bit of a dangerous move but MS made a career out of those kinds of moves, and I don't think NR will get a penalty, but who knows?

[A FONDO]

One more race without safety car!
Finally Vettel found a track that suits his car and style.
Kimi - great overtaking, great fighting spirit, this is what I enjoy to see in the motorsport!
Groesjan raised his confidence and shows impressive results.
Rosberg - as usual passive overtaken muppet. Couldnt even cope with Di Resta 'til his tyres went completely cooked.
Alonso - strong start as usual, but couldnt resist McLaren's superior cars.
Massa finally showed the pace needeed for Ferrari second driver.
Hamilton - way more mature, steady, clean this year and didnt show frustration after consecutive troubles in the pit.
McLaren mechanics = EPIC FAIL. Nothing unexpected I'd say.
Ferrari pit-stop crew again brilliant, helping Alonso in the critical moments. Cant say the same for Renault which were about 1 sec. per pit-stop slower than Red Bulls.

[airshifter]

http://s13.postimage.org/suww3j8br/RTL_Television_2012_04_22_14_48_31.jpg

I think this is the best shot you are going to get. NR rode him off the track. Alonso looks like he is a half of a car length behind him but that is after was fully on the dirt. I think it was a little bit of a dangerous move but MS made a career out of those kinds of moves, and I don't think NR will get a penalty, but who knows?

Even with that shot, I really don't know. I thought Hamilton looked farther back than Alonso in comparison. I guess at some point we will see.

[dj_bytedisaster]

Good that you clarify that. Because going by how you speak about Vettel, it sounds like he is a pretty bad driver. And if you often talk about 1-second car advantage (last year you mentioned it often, hope you don't need quotes), even if he wins by a fraction of a second, it leaves an impression of him being a very bad driver - losing almost a second a lap to direct opposition. In addition - regardless of what Vettel does, even if he wins, you never praise him. So this leaves an impression of him not being capable of doing anything impressive as a driver. Even Petrov, who you mentioned, has been impressive on occasion, hasn't he?

Misquoting you? Perhaps it is the way of writing, which contains exaggerations. Hence the misunderstandings by my part. If in every race thread you shout that Vettel is lucky to have a dominant car (if he wins) or his "true level" is shown up in equal cars (if he loses), then what am I supposed to think? With balanced analysis we can reach better understanding. :)

LOL, Jens, I really admire your patience. By now everyone with half a brain should have noticed that Garry harbours a pathological hatred of Vettel. The really funny thing is that he insists on RBR being the dominant car. Which begs the question why Mark didn't even come close to the podium. If Garry's logic is sound and Vettel is but a 'almost'-top driver, Mark would have to be apallingly mediocre, something which I would classify as ridiculously uninformed.
I've read through this thread and the only idea I could come up with was - don't feed the troll. I'm not much of a RBR or Vettel fan myself, in fact I was screaming at my TV for Kimmi to make that decisive pass, but if it gives me the opportunity to laugh really hard at Garry's pathetic dribble - gimme a Vettel win any day. I just can't respect people, who don't show due credit for a good drive.

[BDunnell]

Misquoting you? Perhaps it is the way of writing, which contains exaggerations. Hence the misunderstandings by my part. If in every race thread you shout that Vettel is lucky to have a dominant car (if he wins) or his "true level" is shown up in equal cars (if he loses), then what am I supposed to think? With balanced analysis we can reach better understanding. :)

Amen to that. Thank goodness for proper enthusiasts.

[Dave B]

No action on any of the incidents today.

[BDunnell]

No action on any of the incidents today.

Not even the tyre-burning? (Sorry — wrong thread.)

[dj_bytedisaster]

No action on any of the incidents today.

That's a surprise. Rosberg's driving looked rather hamfisted to me, especially the swerve against Alonso. Good to see that the stewards allow some robust racing.

[jens]

I would have thought Rosberg would get at least a reprimand. Just as a reminder that "ok, you were a little hard on track and we won't punish you, but be more careful in the future..."

[truefan72]

I would have thought Rosberg would get at least a reprimand. Just as a reminder that "ok, you were a little hard on track and we won't punish you, but be more careful in the future..."

I fail to see the difference between his actions and MSC's in hungary on rubens.
In fact his is worse since he did it twice.

At the very least I expected a grid penalty for Barcelona.
Just proves the fIA and stewards are still a lottery system when it comes to reprimands.

By choosing to do nothing,they set a dangerous situation up where the next time this tye of "pushing a competitor out of bounds" happens and some sad outcome occurs, they wouldn't be able to penalize the driver.
If I were Alonso and Hamilton and MSC, I'd be pretty pissed.

It was dangerous stuff and went well beyond the spirit of competition.

[Wasted Talent]

I fail to see the difference between his actions and MSC's in hungary on rubens.
In fact his is worse since he did it twice.



Slightly different in that Schumacher was pushing Barrichello into the pit wall whereas there was a big gap at the side of the track at Bahrain.

WT

[i_max2k2]

I fail to see the difference between his actions and MSC's in hungary on rubens.
In fact his is worse since he did it twice.

At the very least I expected a grid penalty for Barcelona.
Just proves the fIA and stewards are still a lottery system when it comes to reprimands.

By choosing to do nothing,they set a dangerous situation up where the next time this tye of "pushing a competitor out of bounds" happens and some sad outcome occurs, they wouldn't be able to penalize the driver.
If I were Alonso and Hamilton and MSC, I'd be pretty pissed.

It was dangerous stuff and went well beyond the spirit of competition.

I agree pushing off the track is pushing off the track, on such speeds, any car can easily pick up a puncture and could easily get out of control.

[The Black Knight]

I fail to see the difference between his actions and MSC's in hungary on rubens.
In fact his is worse since he did it twice.

At the very least I expected a grid penalty for Barcelona.
Just proves the fIA and stewards are still a lottery system when it comes to reprimands.

By choosing to do nothing,they set a dangerous situation up where the next time this tye of "pushing a competitor out of bounds" happens and some sad outcome occurs, they wouldn't be able to penalize the driver.
If I were Alonso and Hamilton and MSC, I'd be pretty pissed.

It was dangerous stuff and went well beyond the spirit of competition.

The difference is that Rubens might have been driven straight into a wall and killed, whereas Hamilton was in no such danger of the same happening. I'm one of the ones that believes Schumacher was entitled to do what he did in Hungary though. Rubens could have back out of it at any minute had he ever feared the wall. That aside, I'm happy to see this level of aggression from Nico and we should see more of it from other drivers.

[airshifter]

I fail to see the difference between his actions and MSC's in hungary on rubens.
In fact his is worse since he did it twice.

At the very least I expected a grid penalty for Barcelona.
Just proves the fIA and stewards are still a lottery system when it comes to reprimands.

By choosing to do nothing,they set a dangerous situation up where the next time this tye of "pushing a competitor out of bounds" happens and some sad outcome occurs, they wouldn't be able to penalize the driver.
If I were Alonso and Hamilton and MSC, I'd be pretty pissed.

It was dangerous stuff and went well beyond the spirit of competition.

I've yet to see any photo or video that proves Nico pushed Lewis at all. Watching the replay several times it appeared to me that Nico moved while Lewis was still behind, and moved all the way to the very edge of the track. With Alonso it did appear to me that he was possibly alongside Nico, but in that case Nico left room on the inside and did not push him off the track.

If in fact Lewis was alongside I agree that a reprimand would be a minimum penalty. But that if still relies on photo evidence.

[steveaki13]

As I said on previous thread, every race has its own order, so the season might turn to be a classic. A Red Bull win today will spice the championship even more. :)

Last time we had 4 different winners from first 4 races was 2003 I think. Coulthard, Raikkonen, Fisichella & M. Schumacher.

Last time we had 5 from the first 5 was 1983 I worked out. Piquet, Watson, Prost, Tambay & Rosberg.

[Marbles]

I don't have it recorded any longer so I can't say whether NR's moves to the inside came before his pursuers moves (FIA claim) or in response to his competitors moves. However, it seems clear that FIA, being unable to enforce the traditional "one move" rule have moved to a "one swerve" rule.

[truefan72]

I've yet to see any photo or video that proves Nico pushed Lewis at all. Watching the replay several times it appeared to me that Nico moved while Lewis was still behind, and moved all the way to the very edge of the track. With Alonso it did appear to me that he was possibly alongside Nico, but in that case Nico left room on the inside and did not push him off the track.

If in fact Lewis was alongside I agree that a reprimand would be a minimum penalty. But that if still relies on photo evidence.


alright,

how about Alonso's situation then?
If you know a car is slip streaming you, then makes the move to pass you, as he is passing you, he is technically not ahead of you, but you do know that he is in the process.
Swerving to the right is acceptable as Vettel did to hamilton in China, and even as Perez did to kobayashi in that same race. It is acceptable to at least not run the guy off the track.

In both rosberg incidents, he clearly knew these guys were in the process of overtaking him and not only did he make the wide swerve to block the pass, but he gave no room, and in-fact, ran them clear off the track, knowing that it would be the only way to stop that pass from happening. That to me is clearly out of bounds of racing. If in fact you concede the first hamilton incident was somewhat speculative and unintended "per say" (highlighted by his incredulous radio message to the team), the second incident involving Alonso confirmed that his actions were deliberate and dangerous. Either incident deserved a reprimand IMO and should have resulted in a 10 place drop for the next race.
The fact that nothing at all was given seems ridiculous, given that a precedent was already set.

This nonsense of investigating it after the race is also ridiculous. We all saw the incident and I do believe the stewards had enough time to issue a stop/go or drive thru for the Hamilton incident and likewise for the Alonso incident, with a possible black flag. It is cowardly by them to not handle it in race, after all that is why they are the stewards. they chose to cowardly issue their statement well after the event and out of the scrutiny of the media.
:down:

[aryan]

Well, I boycotted this race, but I'm glad to see Kimster back on the podium. The Iceman is back! :D

Based on what I have read, if they he hadn't been stuck behind Grosjean for two laps, he might have had a better go at Vettel. Did Lotus cost themselves a win by not allowing team orders?

[wedge]

I would have thought Rosberg would get at least a reprimand. Just as a reminder that "ok, you were a little hard on track and we won't punish you, but be more careful in the future..."

At last year's Japanese GP Vettel pulled a block on Button but quickly rejoined the racing line it was looked at by the stewards and nothing came of it.

Rosberg blatantly hugged the white line much, much longer against Alonso than he did on Hamilton. If it was under Beaux Barfield's watch it would more than likely have been a penalty

When two cars bang into each other the stewards get itchy trigger fingers.

[airshifter]

alright,

how about Alonso's situation then?
If you know a car is slip streaming you, then makes the move to pass you, as he is passing you, he is technically not ahead of you, but you do know that he is in the process.
Swerving to the right is acceptable as Vettel did to hamilton in China, and even as Perez did to kobayashi in that same race. It is acceptable to at least not run the guy off the track.

In both rosberg incidents, he clearly knew these guys were in the process of overtaking him and not only did he make the wide swerve to block the pass, but he gave no room, and in-fact, ran them clear off the track, knowing that it would be the only way to stop that pass from happening. That to me is clearly out of bounds of racing. If in fact you concede the first hamilton incident was somewhat speculative and unintended "per say" (highlighted by his incredulous radio message to the team), the second incident involving Alonso confirmed that his actions were deliberate and dangerous. Either incident deserved a reprimand IMO and should have resulted in a 10 place drop for the next race.
The fact that nothing at all was given seems ridiculous, given that a precedent was already set.

This nonsense of investigating it after the race is also ridiculous. We all saw the incident and I do believe the stewards had enough time to issue a stop/go or drive thru for the Hamilton incident and likewise for the Alonso incident, with a possible black flag. It is cowardly by them to not handle it in race, after all that is why they are the stewards. they chose to cowardly issue their statement well after the event and out of the scrutiny of the media.
:down:

I responded to your other post in another thread, but just in case....

I watched both incidents several times in super slow motion on the DVR. Rosberg moved first in both cases and when the other cars were behind him. I fully agree that if a car is alongside you can't push them off the track, but this was not the case. The stewards have ruled in favor of Nico in both cases. F1 : Bahrain Formula 1 race stewards rule for Rosberg against Alonso and Hamilton (http://www.f1sa.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=33641:f1--bahrain-formula-1-race-stewards-rule-for-rosberg-against-alonso-and-hamilton&catid=1:f1&Itemid=157)

I thought the case with Alonso was closer until I watched it a few more times in slow motion. The more often I watched it, the more I thought Fernando forced the issue. It was similar to two cars going for the same parking spot. If you see someone heading there and hit the gas hard to get there first, that doesn't mean they can change direction or stop in time. By the point Alonso made it alongside, Nico was committed to the edge of the track and was straightening his car back out.

Had either Lewis or Fernando stayed within the track, they still would not have been side by side with Nico at that point.

[airshifter]

At last year's Japanese GP Vettel pulled a block on Button but quickly rejoined the racing line it was looked at by the stewards and nothing came of it.

Rosberg blatantly hugged the white line much, much longer against Alonso than he did on Hamilton. If it was under Beaux Barfield's watch it would more than likely have been a penalty

When two cars bang into each other the stewards get itchy trigger fingers.

By the regs, Rosberg could only move once, which he did. If he moved back to his left in front of Alonso he could have violated the one move rule. The difference was in Hamiltons case Lewis stayed in it and essentially made the advantage take place off track. Rosberg moved when he saw that Lewis didn't back out of it and had to rejoin.

[Tazio]

Here is a video of the incident. It doesn’t' really seem too egregious after watching it in my opinion. Alonso knew where he was headed, didn't panic and tried to immediately set up the next corner, but didn't have the track position relative to NR when they got there.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bea17BeLepI

[ArrowsFA1]

I think you are going to have fun in future races! You can defend position as you want and you can overtake outside the track! Enjoy! ;) ))
Fernando Alonso on Twitter (http://twitter.com/#!/alo_oficial/status/194113915142160385)

[F1boat]

Last time we had 4 different winners from first 4 races was 2003 I think. Coulthard, Raikkonen, Fisichella & M. Schumacher.

Last time we had 5 from the first 5 was 1983 I worked out. Piquet, Watson, Prost, Tambay & Rosberg.

Interesting about the 2003 comparison, because that season, like the current one, came after a year of utter domination of one driver and team. And the reigning champion wins race 4.

[CaptainRaiden]

Fun race, but I think the Bahrain GP 2012 should really be called - Mclaren's Instructional Video on How to Screw Lewis' race - TWICE.

OR

How to Lose WDC and WCC lead to Bieber and canned cardiac-arrest-inducing liquid company in ONE race.

[Tazio]

Fernando Alonso on Twitter (http://twitter.com/#!/alo_oficial/status/194113915142160385)
I'm not sure how to take that :mark: He is definitely being sarcastic, but doesn't project a sense of rage. I probably pull for FA harder than anyone else on this forum, but my guess is that he was directing that tweet to the stewards, as NR surely should have gotten a reprimand.

[N4D13]

I'm not sure how to take that :mark: He is definitely being sarcastic, but doesn't project a sense of rage. I probably pull for FA harder than anyone else on this forum, but my guess is that he was directing that tweet to the stewards, as NR surely should have gotten a reprimand.
A good thing about Alonso is that he always speaks his mind, just like Webber, but unlike Mark, Nando doesn't know when to shut up. He can't have been happy about the decision and he's certainly not making a secret of it.

[wedge]

By the regs, Rosberg could only move once, which he did. If he moved back to his left in front of Alonso he could have violated the one move rule. The difference was in Hamiltons case Lewis stayed in it and essentially made the advantage take place off track. Rosberg moved when he saw that Lewis didn't back out of it and had to rejoin.

Article 20.4 of the F1 sporting regulations says: "Manoeuvres liable to hinder other drivers, such as deliberate crowding of a car beyond the edge of the track or any other abnormal change of direction, are not permitted."

Does to 2 wrongs make a right?

[Tazio]

A good thing about Alonso is that he always speaks his mind, just like Webber, but unlike Mark, Nando doesn't know when to shut up. He can't have been happy about the decision and he's certainly not making a secret of it.
That is a good observation. Alonso seems to function well because he vents when he feels that he needs to, he gets it out of his system and moves on.

[jens]

Interesting about the 2003 comparison, because that season, like the current one, came after a year of utter domination of one driver and team. And the reigning champion wins race 4.

By the way, I cannot find a season, which had four different teams winning in first four races. So from that point of view we have already seen something unique this year!

[steveaki13]

By the way, I cannot find a season, which had four different teams winning in first four races. So from that point of view we have already seen something unique this year!

Its exciting, be nice to see a Kimi Lotus win next for 5 out of 5.

Then maybe a Schumi 6 of 6. :D

[ShiftingGears]

By the way, I cannot find a season, which had four different teams winning in first four races. So from that point of view we have already seen something unique this year!

I know it happened at least in 1970 and 1972 - 1959 Also had this occurrence, however that was down to most European teams not participating in the Indianapolis 500.

[Garry Walker]

Good that you clarify that. Because going by how you speak about Vettel, it sounds like he is a pretty bad driver. And if you often talk about 1-second car advantage (last year you mentioned it often, hope you don't need quotes), even if he wins by a fraction of a second, it leaves an impression of him being a very bad driver - losing almost a second a lap to direct opposition. In addition - regardless of what Vettel does, even if he wins, you never praise him. So this leaves an impression of him not being capable of doing anything impressive as a driver. Even Petrov, who you mentioned, has been impressive on occasion, hasn't he?
1) I have never said he is a bad driver, but I have never considered him a special driver.
2) There were quite a few times last year when RB was in fact 1 second per lap faster.



Misquoting you? Perhaps it is the way of writing, which contains exaggerations. Hence the misunderstandings by my part. If in every race thread you shout that Vettel is lucky to have a dominant car (if he wins) or his "true level" is shown up in equal cars (if he loses), then what am I supposed to think? With balanced analysis we can reach better understanding. :)
1) Is he unlucky to have the best car?
2) I think there are some drivers who, in equal cars, would clearly beat him, yes.


LOL, Jens, I really admire your patience. By now everyone with half a brain should have noticed that Garry harbours a pathological hatred of Vettel. The really funny thing is that he insists on RBR being the dominant car. Yeah, RB has been a slow car for the last 4 years and not dominat at all. All down to Bieber.


Which begs the question why Mark didn't even come close to the podium. If Garry's logic is sound and Vettel is but a 'almost'-top driver, Mark would have to be apallingly mediocre, something which I would classify as ridiculously uninformed. Yeah, in your fanboy world view, this win was all about bieber and his special driving.
Webber was awful yesterday, just awful. Unless you really think bieber is 1,5 seconds per lap faster than webber.


but if it gives me the opportunity to laugh really hard at Garry's pathetic dribble - gimme a Vettel win any day. LOL, how sad must your life be?


I just can't respect people, who don't show due credit for a good drive. What? Should I have got down on my knees and praised bieber? He won, in the best car and that is it. His drive was nothing special, just another win in the best car. Nowhere did I say he was awful or that he sucked yesterday.


No action on any of the incidents today. What the hell? Finally some intelligence from the stewards.


Fernando Alonso on Twitter (http://twitter.com/#!/alo_oficial/status/194113915142160385)

You can also steal data from rival teams and not get punished for it, you can blackmail your own teamboss and not get punished for it, hell you can even have your teammate crash his car to help you to win, but still you dont get punished.

[BDunnell]

Yawn.

[airshifter]

I'm not sure how to take that :mark: He is definitely being sarcastic, but doesn't project a sense of rage. I probably pull for FA harder than anyone else on this forum, but my guess is that he was directing that tweet to the stewards, as NR surely should have gotten a reprimand.

Why would he get a reprimand for legal blocking?

[Tazio]

Why would he get a reprimand for legal blocking?
After letting it settle in for a while I don't really think it is, or was a necessity.
I like NR, and upon further consideration I believe it was just good hard competition.

[SGWilko]

Presumably, one has to consider that, at the time, bith Lewis and Fernando were travelling faster that Nico, and had they not pulled out from behind the Mercedes, they would have collided with it.

They both chose to attempt the pass off the racing line, but both had to keep moving over to still avoid hitting Nico, who was by this time moving right over...

I assume the Stewards considered that there was both enough time and sufficient space for Fred or Hammy to have jinked left to counter Nico's defence.....

[F1boat]

Maybe Nico is tired of people who force his way around him. Showed that an aggressive attack can be met with brutal defense.

[F1boat]

Well, I am not a fan of one particular move which Lewis uses - the way in which he forces the overtaking maneuver, expecting the other driver to move out of his way. I think that the other drivers were intimidated by this in the past, but last year many of them defended, hence Lewis had many crashes. I think that now he is wiser and more careful in his attacks, leaving space for the other car, so I have no more critiques for him, although I can't cheer for his success - I respect him, a very talented driver, but I am simply not a fan and I don't believe that he is better than either Vettel or Alonso. I have no opinion about his defensive driving - IMO he is an average defender. In the past, when he was successful in defense, it was because the cars were impossible to overtake. Now he is not defending very hard (see the case with Grosjean) and I think that again he is trying to focus on consistency and race finishes, which he so far achieves. About your question - I think that if he has tried the move which Nico did to him, it would have been equally impressive, beautiful and maybe Nico would have looked a bit cheeky, overtaking outside the track limits. The move which Nico did to Alonso was a bit dangerous and because of my bias, I would probably have been annoyed, if Lewis has did it. But I think that Lewis is more aggressive in his attacks, not while defending.

[BDunnell]

Hamilton with his aggressive style is no different to many of the past icons of the sport who forced their way through.

Really? I'd say he's very different to the likes of Fangio, Moss, Clark, Stewart, etc, etc...

[BDunnell]

So would I but you've hand picked a few drivers from a very dangerous era there which illustrates your point. Compare Hamilton to the likes of Schumacher, Prost, Senna, Alesi, Mansell, even Alonso etc where brute force was often used in the spirit of racing to get past opponents and I think I have a valid point. Comparing such to an era where death was common and the gentleman spirit was needed out of a duty of care to others and I think its more like comparing apple's and oranges. Just my two pence. :)

Reasonable point. I still place Senna and Schumacher way ahead of the others you mention when it comes to unacceptable aggressiveness.

[airshifter]

Presumably, one has to consider that, at the time, bith Lewis and Fernando were travelling faster that Nico, and had they not pulled out from behind the Mercedes, they would have collided with it.

They both chose to attempt the pass off the racing line, but both had to keep moving over to still avoid hitting Nico, who was by this time moving right over...

I assume the Stewards considered that there was both enough time and sufficient space for Fred or Hammy to have jinked left to counter Nico's defence.....

The stewards used both video and telemetry to prove Nico moves first in both cases, and was committed to his move. The fact that Fred and Lewis at some point kept moving farther to come alongside does not give them any right to force Nico to move. In fact if he had moved again he might have violated the rule that allows only one move to defend.

In hindsight Nico made the best move possible. I personally think after reviewing it a number of times that if anyone should have been penalized it should have been Lewis. By continuing off track he gained advantage in the pass. Had he gone straight when Nico moved, or backed out and moved back to the left to pass Nico, he would have lost momentum and the pass would have been much more difficult.

I'd also say Fernando did the right thing by backing out and not staying in it off track.

[F1boat]

So what are your opinions of the likes of Schumacher

Michael is a hard defender, I don't think that's the same. Massa is a clumsy defender. The hard part is not to crash in him when he chops you in blind panic.
The only driver who had the same type of aggressive overtaking move as Lewis was Juan Montoya, from what I have seen. Montoya IMO, just as Lewis, was a risky driver, too brutal for my style. But I guess that this is a matter of taste.

[steveaki13]

Michael is a hard defender, I don't think that's the same. Massa is a clumsy defender. The hard part is not to crash in him when he chops you in blind panic.
The only driver who had the same type of aggressive overtaking move as Lewis was Juan Montoya, from what I have seen. Montoya IMO, just as Lewis, was a risky driver, too brutal for my style. But I guess that this is a matter of taste.

I like a range of driving styles, it helps to keep F1 exciting.

I do like a hard charger though. However that said, he has to be sensible with it and not risk himself or others cars needlessly.

[Tazio]

I like a range of driving styles, it helps to keep F1 exciting.

I do like a hard charger though. However that said, he has to be sensible with it and not risk himself or others cars needlessly.
It really relies on Feel, depth perception, and coordination. I think JPM had the feel and the coordination, although keen, his depth perception sometimes lerft Juan going for gaps that don't open, were closing, or just not there. ;)
At this point in the season there are not drivers like Kimi being able to make any advantage except the start. His last one was extra special, Alonso and him, have a tendency to start off the first two rows but find ways to get your best qualifying end them up on the clean side of the track. Kimi was up there in Bahrain already. but he also has another very nice start in China
Fred and the rest of the best have to have a car at qualy that has at least a chance at the front row most of the time. :s pinhead:

[F1boat]

Kimi is awesome. Very fast, brilliant overtaker, never whines.

Kimi is awesome. Very fast, brilliant overtaker, never whines.

I think, He would have put much effort