Time for the name Lotus to leave F1

[ArrowsFA1]

Lotus F1 team committed to name despite end of title sponsor deal - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/98628)

The whole saga of this once great name being exploited as nothing more than a marketing exercise should end along with the Group Lotus sponsorship of the team that should now be called Genii Capital.

[Tazio]

+1

[wedge]

The same can be said of Caterham.

I wonder whether there are millionaires/corporate types who enjoy assembling/fixing their 7 in the kitchen?

[ArrowsFA1]

The same can be said of Caterham.
In what sense?

Lotus, whether that be group, cars or racing team, has no involvement in F1. The only reason the name is in the sport is because an international financial advisory and investment firm, which specialises in brand management, and who have aquired the name think "it is a good name for F1".

It was a good name in F1.

[janneppi]

The whole name thing has been incredibly stupid. Maybe Lotus should change it's name to Caterham to confuse me more.

[EuroTroll]

I think they should stick to the name "Lotus". It's such a pretty name. :cheese: And if someone brought back "Brabham" or "Tyrrell", it wouldn't bother me even if they had no connection whatever with the original team or its owners.

[BDunnell]

I think they should stick to the name "Lotus". It's such a pretty name. :cheese: And if someone brought back "Brabham" or "Tyrrell", it wouldn't bother me even if they had no connection whatever with the original team or its owners.

Well, it more or less happened with Brabham in that team's final era, and it was a joke. At the heart of this absurd Lotus situation are two less-than-positive things — a badly-run car company, and a cynical desire on the part of those concerned solely with corporate considerations to exploit a team name from the past that should have been left there.

[Sonic]

*facedesk*

After all that! Three years of legal wrangling and mud slinging and now NO ONE wants to be Lotus? Sigh. I hate this 'sport' sometimes.

[truefan72]

*facedesk*

After all that! Three years of legal wrangling and mud slinging and now NO ONE wants to be Lotus? Sigh. I hate this 'sport' sometimes.

it's not really the sport's fault in this case but the proton group and their obviously shady ways

[DexDexter]

In a way this Lotus situation is sad since with Kimi and all the publicity, the F1 team has given the brand a lot of publicity and they could've actually sold some cars with the help of the F1 team.

[zako85]

The same can be said of Caterham.



Caterham's car company and F1 team are still linked. I have no problem with that..

[CNR]

pitpass - Proton stops Lotus F1 sponsorship and gives £35m loan to team (http://www.pitpass.com/45953-Proton-stops-Lotus-F1-sponsorship-and-gives-35m-loan-to-team)



Variouswebsites are reporting that the Lotus F1 (http://www.pitpass.com/src/teams/lotusren.php)team has terminated its sponsorship deal with the Group Lotus (http://www.pitpass.com/src/teams/lotusren.php) carmanufacturer[/*:m:3hcviw4h]
Justlast week Sylt revealed (http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=45927)that two months ago Proton, the Malaysian-based owner of Group Lotus (http://www.pitpass.com/src/teams/lotusren.php), hadgiven the LotusF1 (http://www.pitpass.com/src/teams/lotusren.php) team an estimated £35m loan.[/*:m:3hcviw4h]
What wasn't revealed by Lopez' comments is that the loanincludes a very important clause stating that the team gives Proton "fulltitle guarantee" to "all plant, machinery, show cars, computers,office and other equipment... and... Whiteways Technical Centre [LotusF1 (http://www.pitpass.com/src/teams/lotusren.php)'s headquarters]." What this means is that if (and there isno suggestion that this will happen) the team fails to repay the loan thenProton will be entitled to take over all the property listed above whicheffectively constitutes the team itself. So although Lopez was keen to say thatGroup Lotus (http://www.pitpass.com/src/teams/lotusren.php) no longer has an option to buy 50% of LotusF1 (http://www.pitpass.com/src/teams/lotusren.php), what wasn't revealed is that Group Lotus (http://www.pitpass.com/src/teams/lotusren.php)'owner could end up owning much more than that as a result of the loan it hasgiven to the team.
[/*:m:3hcviw4h]

[zako85]

What wasn't revealed by Lopez' comments is that the loanincludes a very important clause stating that the team gives Proton "fulltitle guarantee" to "all plant, machinery, show cars, computers,office and other equipment... and... Whiteways Technical Centre [LotusF1 (http://www.pitpass.com/src/teams/lotusren.php)'s headquarters]." What this means is that if (and there isno suggestion that this will happen) the team fails to repay the loan thenProton will be entitled to take over all the property listed above whicheffectively constitutes the team itself. So although Lopez was keen to say thatGroup Lotus (http://www.pitpass.com/src/teams/lotusren.php) no longer has an option to buy 50% of LotusF1 (http://www.pitpass.com/src/teams/lotusren.php), what wasn't revealed is that Group Lotus (http://www.pitpass.com/src/teams/lotusren.php)'owner could end up owning much more than that as a result of the loan it hasgiven to the team.

[/LIST]


I assume that Lotus F1 would not have agreed to those loan terms if team management was not convinced that the money can be returned. The terms seem pretty normal to me. After all, there has to be some kind of collateral for such a large loan. If the team does well this year (e.g. they manage to beat Mercedes) they could count on getting a bigger share of TV royalty payments than the last year. It does seem strange to me that Lotus F1 had to borrow money from its sponsors. And didn't they already owe some money to Renault for the engines? I bet they regret letting Petrov walk away with his sponsors, specially with Grosjean's terrible performance in the first two races.

[wedge]

In what sense?

Lotus, whether that be group, cars or racing team, has no involvement in F1. The only reason the name is in the sport is because an international financial advisory and investment firm, which specialises in brand management, and who have aquired the name think "it is a good name for F1".

It was a good name in F1.

After so desperate to acquire the Lotus brand Tony Fernandes quickly brought Caterham. Call me cynical but I'm not sure he has brought it for the right reasons.

Caterhams are a very, very niche product.

Car companies are in the business of selling cars. Very, very few companies can get away with continuing racing at a high level and continue to successfully sell cars.

There will come a time when the difference will be F1 or selling cars and something will give and it won't be a pretty sight.

[zako85]

I am pretty sure Tony Fernandes bought the Caterham because he thought that "Caterham" is cool team name to be used in F1. I don't think that common sense economics drive his decisions. F1 is his toy project that he will keep sponsoring as long as he stays interested in it.

[jens]

So in two years we have gone from 0 Lotus to 2 Lotus and back to 0 Lotus. :s pin: I remember Dany Bahar decided to fund a mammoth motorsport program. Perhaps it was too much and it's time to cut costs? Actually I'm a bit surprised all this instability surrounding the Enstone team hasn't influenced their competitiveness on race track yet.

[ArrowsFA1]

After so desperate to acquire the Lotus brand Tony Fernandes quickly brought Caterham. Call me cynical but I'm not sure he has brought it for the right reasons.
While Fernandes is a businessman first he does seem to be a genuine enthusiast for projects he gets involved in, whether that be F1, Caterham or QPR.

What happens to Caterham is yet to be seen but Fernandes appears to be committed to building the company, and the link with F1 can only help that IMHO.

The continuing saga of the Lotus name seems to be something entirely different to me. Genii Capital have no link with the original team, nor the car company, and yet they'd have us believe they are Lotus :dozey:

[EuroTroll]

The continuing saga of the Lotus name seems to be something entirely different to me. Genii Capital have no link with the original team, nor the car company, and yet they'd have us believe they are Lotus :dozey:

Why not see it as a compliment to Colin Chapman? ;)

[BDunnell]

After so desperate to acquire the Lotus brand Tony Fernandes quickly brought Caterham. Call me cynical but I'm not sure he has brought it for the right reasons.

That is a reasonable point. You mean because he wanted 'the next best thing' to Lotus after he couldn't have that name any more? Still, I do think the use of the Caterham name is more legitimate than the use of Lotus by Genii now is.

[BDunnell]

So in two years we have gone from 0 Lotus to 2 Lotus and back to 0 Lotus. :s pin: I remember Dany Bahar decided to fund a mammoth motorsport program. Perhaps it was too much and it's time to cut costs? Actually I'm a bit surprised all this instability surrounding the Enstone team hasn't influenced their competitiveness on race track yet.

I'm not, for exactly the reason that Lotus has nothing to do with the team except as a sponsor!

As for Bahar, his plans were clearly absurd.

[BDunnell]

Why not see it as a compliment to Colin Chapman? ;)

Well, I was going to say that the Lotus name saga is as nothing to some of the stuff Chapman allegedly got up to in his later business dealings. But this doesn't disguise the fact that the matter has now become laughable.

[F1boat]

Let the Benetton sponsorship and team name returns!

[Malbec]

In what sense?

Lotus, whether that be group, cars or racing team, has no involvement in F1. The only reason the name is in the sport is because an international financial advisory and investment firm, which specialises in brand management, and who have aquired the name think "it is a good name for F1".

Who? Genii?

Lotus was called that because of Bahar insisting on the name change for title sponsorship, not because of Genii's efforts. If anything the fact that this year's car is called the E20 for the 20th car to come out of Enstone indicates that Genii weren't particularly bothered about the Lotus heritage or they'd have just given it a plain number.

I'm not surprised that Genii now want to keep hold of the Lotus name, changing it to something else would be ridiculous given the pain the team went through to go from Renault to Lotus in the first place and they might lose prize money.

The fools and cynics here are Group Lotus (roadcars) who sponsored the team, insisted on the name change and forgot to actually put up the money that they said they'd pay. They're also fools for forgetting that the world's best advertising and marketing can't compensate for a lack of product and squandering their money by throwing it at any formula going. The Indy car venture has backfired spectacularly. What American would want to waste their money buying a car from a company that can't even supply a handful of engines for testing?

I don't blame Genii for squeezing a sponsor for all the money they were worth and agreeing to change the name of the team in exchange, particularly as they were planning a reverse takeover. I blame Bahar for getting the whole Lotus group into this sorry state.

[zako85]

^

Good write-up. While having this new "Lotus" may not be pleasant for some fans, it hard to blame the Enstone team for using it now. The team was going to be part Lotus (cars) owned and also sponsored by them, until the deal fell through. It's not pleasant to change the team name yet again, just two years after the last change.

[wedge]

That is a reasonable point. You mean because he wanted 'the next best thing' to Lotus after he couldn't have that name any more? Still, I do think the use of the Caterham name is more legitimate than the use of Lotus by Genii now is.

More why so desperate to be associated/buy a brand?


I am pretty sure Tony Fernandes bought the Caterham because he thought that "Caterham" is cool team name to be used in F1. I don't think that common sense economics drive his decisions. F1 is his toy project that he will keep sponsoring as long as he stays interested in it.

That's my main worry. Caterham shouldn't be treated like a football club. What happens when he gets bored/tired of F1 or numbers don't add up?

[ArrowsFA1]

I'm not surprised that Genii now want to keep hold of the Lotus name, changing it to something else would be ridiculous given the pain the team went through to go from Renault to Lotus in the first place...
You're right, Genii have little option but to keep the name for now and they're not at fault for what has been going on with Group Lotus, but I hope they put an end to this sorry mess and re-name their team for the start of 2013.

[CNR]

Gerard Lopez feels confident for Lotus title sponsorship (http://blogs.bettor.com/Gerard-Lopez-feels-confident-for-Lotus-title-sponsorship-Formula-1-news-a143821)



Group Lotus had signed a seven-year agreement with Lotus to act as the title
sponsor with a choice to acquire the team in the future. However, they are going
through some financial crisis which provided that reason for the termination of
the agreement.





“When we changed the name from Lotus Renault to Lotus, it opened up the door
for a title sponsor so, if you take into account the fact we signed Unilever,
probably the biggest sponsorship agreement this year in F1, and we signed
Microsoft, which is huge news as it is a brand that has never been in F1 before,
we have a wide space for sponsorship,”


i say if they get to keep the lotus name for free good on them

[Malbec]

More why so desperate to be associated/buy a brand?


I don't think Fernandes is desperate and he's thought carefully about his entry into F1 too. Although he could have bought out an existing team he went in the hard way and so far, even if the results are a bit disappointing he's invested in the right infrastructure and laying down good foundations for a decent team.

I don't know where he is going with Caterham but his dealings with Air Asia are impressive and he gained control over another airline IIRC as part of the horsetrading over the Lotus name. He doesn't strike me as the kind of guy to buy companies on a whim. IMO I don't think he's given up on buying Group Lotus but he's biding his time until the value of the company drops through the floor.

[odykas]

They should change their name to Renault :p :

[schmenke]

I’m confused. Does anyone actually own the name “Lotus”?
I thought that some time ago, the Chapman family endorsed the use of “Lotus” for Fernandes’ racing team? Now with Genii in the mix, does anyone have rights to the name or brand “Lotus”?

[jens]

I’m confused. Does anyone actually own the name “Lotus”?
I thought that some time ago, the Chapman family endorsed the use of “Lotus” for Fernandes’ racing team? Now with Genii in the mix, does anyone have rights to the name or brand “Lotus”?

Umm, which Lotus? :p : There are even officially a few of them and that's where the problems started!

[SGWilko]

I’m confused. Does anyone actually own the name “Lotus”?
I thought that some time ago, the Chapman family endorsed the use of “Lotus” for Fernandes’ racing team? Now with Genii in the mix, does anyone have rights to the name or brand “Lotus”?

Indeed, if Fernandez had to buy Caterham to use the name for the F1 team, and with seemingly all ties to Lotus having been severed, should the Enstone team be allowed to race under that name? Do they still have the licence from the new owners of whatever it is to use the name?

[Malbec]

I’m confused. Does anyone actually own the name “Lotus”?
I thought that some time ago, the Chapman family endorsed the use of “Lotus” for Fernandes’ racing team? Now with Genii in the mix, does anyone have rights to the name or brand “Lotus”?

In relation to motorsport, the company that owns that right is Group Lotus which has given the team in Enstone the right to use it too.

Team Lotus (under Fernandes) had it having bought the rights legitimately from David Hunt but they traded the right to use the name with Group Lotus. I think Fernandes got the right to buy some Malaysian airline for next to nothing in return.

[Dave B]

Okayyyy... step away. Somebody at Lotus-Renault-Genii-Proton-Cuthbert-Dibble-Grub has flipped and written a post which makes Ferrari's "Horse Whisperer" look positively sensible:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=1146106&l=da3676510f&id=135849009792886

:eek:

[N4D13]

Okayyyy... step away. Somebody at Lotus-Renault-Genii-Proton-Cuthbert-Dibble-Grub has flipped and written a post which makes Ferrari's "Horse Whisperer" look positively sensible:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=1146106&l=da3676510f&id=135849009792886

:eek:
I've just read it in Autosport and it sounded like a spoilt child whining about stuff, but I'm intrigued about the Joe Saward bit. I wonder what he has to say about that - but I'm sure we'll read something over the next few hours. ;)

[BDunnell]

Okayyyy... step away. Somebody at Lotus-Renault-Genii-Proton-Cuthbert-Dibble-Grub has flipped and written a post which makes Ferrari's "Horse Whisperer" look positively sensible:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=1146106&l=da3676510f&id=135849009792886

:eek:

I'm all for people speaking their mind and doing away with the usual corporate bull****, but there are limits. What a pathetic rant.

[ArrowsFA1]

Okayyyy... step away. Somebody at Lotus-Renault-Genii-Proton-Cuthbert-Dibble-Grub has flipped and written a post which makes Ferrari's "Horse Whisperer" look positively sensible:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=1146106&l=da3676510f&id=135849009792886

:eek:
Oh, good grief this just gets worse!

[DexDexter]

I'm all for people speaking their mind and doing away with the usual corporate bull****, but there are limits. What a pathetic rant.

Yep, that's not a press release and in fact confirms that the rumours about the Lotus situation are TRUE.

[SGWilko]

Amyone fancy a PR job? What a joke!

[Dave B]

That Lotus statement (http://sniffpetrol.com/2012/04/11/lotusfirstdraft/)

:D

[Malbec]

I've just read it in Autosport and it sounded like a spoilt child whining about stuff, but I'm intrigued about the Joe Saward bit. I wonder what he has to say about that - but I'm sure we'll read something over the next few hours. ;)

I don't know if he really does sit on the Caterham board but his AirAsia and Caterham advertise a lot on his grandprixplus magazines...

[SGWilko]

I don't know if he really does sit on the Caterham board but his AirAsia and Caterham advertise a lot on his grandprixplus magazines...

He is a consultant (and possibly therefore a director) of the Caterham road car division, not the F1 team.

[Malbec]

He is a consultant (and possibly therefore a director) of the Caterham road car division, not the F1 team.

Before or after Fernandes came among?

Btw hadn't realised this was the official China press release.... Wow. I couldn't have done a worse job if id tried.

[SGWilko]

Before or after Fernandes came among?

Btw hadn't realised this was the official China press release.... Wow. I couldn't have done a worse job if id tried.

Ah, that I don't know. There was a bit of a hoo ha on his blog about his 'impartiality', which is where/when I learned of his involvment.

Whatever - it looks like the TFKAR (team formerly known as Renault) is in deep doggy doo. There is a high court case been instigated by a local builder to recover costs on Dany Baher's house, that was apparently paid for partrly with Lotus cheques! Perhaps they bounce like a Pirelli tyre!!!

[Malbec]

Whatever - it looks like the TFKAR (team formerly known as Renault) is in deep doggy doo. There is a high court case been instigated by a local builder to recover costs on Dany Baher's house, that was apparently paid for partrly with Lotus cheques! Perhaps they bounce like a Pirelli tyre!!!

I think the Enstone team are fine actually, they have signed good sponsors and seem quite comfortable. Its Group Lotus that are in trouble. If Dany Bahar has the problems you mentioned there I wonder whether the inland revenue will be interested...

[CNR]

Proton holds rights to buy 10 percent of Lotus F1
Proton holds rights to buy 10 percent of Lotus F1 | Reuters (http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/04/11/uk-motor-racing-lotus-idUKBRE83A12M20120411)

this is geting a bigger joke day by day


(Reuters) - Group Lotus owner Proton loaned Lotus F1 $47.71 million and retains the rights to purchase 10 percent of the Formula One (http://uk.reuters.com/news/sports/formula-one) team despite the end of a title sponsorship agreement, the car maker said on Wednesday.

breach of contract by naming rights sponsor and they get away with it by a loan of $47.71 million

[Malbec]

Proton holds rights to buy 10 percent of Lotus F1
Proton holds rights to buy 10 percent of Lotus F1 | Reuters (http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/04/11/uk-motor-racing-lotus-idUKBRE83A12M20120411)

this is geting a bigger joke day by day

breach of contract by naming rights sponsor and they get away with it by a loan of $47.71 million

The terms of the loan though are pretty typical and aren't outrageous by any means. Proton can only buy its share and take over the infrastructure if Lotus defaults.

[SGWilko]

But if they put up 100% equity as sucurity for that loan, a default will see automatic transfer of ownership? Or am I (as usual) being a bit fick, init?

[Malbec]

But if they put up 100% equity as sucurity for that loan, a default will see automatic transfer of ownership? Or am I (as usual) being a bit fick, init?

That would imply that Enstone are only worth $45 million which would undervalue the team no?

[SGWilko]

That would imply that Enstone are only worth $45 million which would undervalue the team no?

From the facebook article;

The new agreement was reached following Group Lotus owners Proton providing team owners Genii with a £30m loan which is repayable within three years. In order to secure the loan Genii used 100% of the F1 team’s assets as collateral meaning that under the conditions of the loan agreement Proton have been given full title guarantee to all plant, machinery, show cars, computers, office and the Lotus F1 Team headquarters.

[steveaki13]

This is stupid, I have really had enough of this situation. Move on and get a real name already

[aryan]

That PR message was the equivalent of watching a company have a nervous breakdown live, on Facebook!

As for who is at faults, I can't really blame the Enstone team, nor Genii Capital for anything. Group Lotus on the other hand, with their pathetic playboy CEO, is something else. Pity, cause I actually liked their road cars before this clown became their CEO.

[52Paddy]

Meanwhile in Ethiopa, countless children die every day from famine.

[Dave B]

Meanwhile in Ethiopa, countless children die every day from famine.
Total non-sequitur. Even if Lotus shut down tomorrow and every person in the company donated every penny they've ever earned to famine relief, what exactly would change?

[52Paddy]

Total non-sequitur. Even if Lotus shut down tomorrow and every person in the company donated every penny they've ever earned to famine relief, what exactly would change?

I'm just trying to illustrate how such a trivial matter as a name can get so far out of hand and cost people millions. I know there's more to it than that but a lot of the issues are concerned with the labelling of a team, no?

I hope you didn't find my comment provocative but I do hate it when bureaucratic-esque issues like this reach significantly ludicrous heights.

[lotus rules]

lotus needs to step up and do more than sponsor the renault car. they need to act and be a CONSTRUCTOR! bahar et. al got jealous when they saw they missed a marketing opportunity that tony fernandes saw and acted on. tony is the man, who got sh*t on by the other powers that be. but he is a business man, and racing enthusiast who also saw the opportunity in caterham. a good move for caterham and for tony.
who knows what bahar is thinking; he is out of touch with the loti nation and thinks they can be and want to be ferrari fashionistas. he is wrong. letting go of the original elise design is a mistake.
it's all about money. group lotus is priming the pump with it's name - lets see if they follow through and make their own car to claim ownership of the records lotus holds.
7 constructors championships!
6 drivers championships!
one indy 500 win!
amazing drivers including andretti
numerous success with formula 2, formula ford, formula jr.

indeed lotus does rule, but not with the current clowns.
down with danny boy bahar!
go caterham F1!
go raikkonen!

[Garry Walker]

Total non-sequitur. Even if Lotus shut down tomorrow and every person in the company donated every penny they've ever earned to famine relief, what exactly would change?
The only thing that would result in is that they would reproduce even faster there and because the average IQ there is about 40, then it would be up to us to help them again and again when another generation is born (who will then suffer again), because they are quite clearly not capable of doing anything by themselves.

[ArrowsFA1]

It seems that the Lotus branded engines are unlikely to be seen in Indycar for very much longer as teams switch to Honda or Chevrolet

Sad to see a company that once had a great history going this way.

[Bagwan]

It seems that the Lotus branded engines are unlikely to be seen in Indycar for very much longer as teams switch to Honda or Chevrolet

Sad to see a company that once had a great history going this way.

Autosport is reporting that Lotus is backing Jean Alesi in a Fan Force car for the Indy 500 .

[ArrowsFA1]

Autosport is reporting that Lotus is backing Jean Alesi in a Fan Force car for the Indy 500 .
I certainly wish Jean well, but on the evidence of the races so far his car will not be on the pace. He's a high profile ambassador for Lotus entering the race for the first time with a rookie team but elsewhere Dragon Racing are suing Lotus (link (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/99457)) for what they say is "contractual fraud". Add that to the two other Indycar teams who have already dropped Lotus and the picture does not appear to be good.

The good form of the "Lotus" Renault team in F1 seems to have more to do with the boys from Enstone than anything else and it just appears that this is an organisation that has promised much, got extensive coverage, painted its cars a nostalgic black & gold but has delivered little of substance.

:dozey:

[Bagwan]

I certainly wish Jean well, but on the evidence of the races so far his car will not be on the pace. He's a high profile ambassador for Lotus entering the race for the first time with a rookie team but elsewhere Dragon Racing are suing Lotus (link (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/99457)) for what they say is "contractual fraud". Add that to the two other Indycar teams who have already dropped Lotus and the picture does not appear to be good.

The good form of the "Lotus" Renault team in F1 seems to have more to do with the boys from Enstone than anything else and it just appears that this is an organisation that has promised much, got extensive coverage, painted its cars a nostalgic black & gold but has delivered little of substance.

:dozey:

Perhaps I sounded like I was defending them .
Sorry about that .

It has become a sad farce .
And , they aren't fooling anyone in the F1 paddock , or for that matter , anyone has any degree of F1 knowledge .

But , branding can work for the general public , which is what they hope comes from F1 .
The problem is , though , that brands can be easily tarnished when the company is attached to feeble arrogant moves like we see in the Indy series .

They fought tooth and nail for the proud name of Lotus , and have dragged it through the mud ever since .