Deltawing

[Robinho]

I know there is a thread in Indycar also, but seeing as its planned to run at Le Mans this year, i thought this article and video were pretty interesting, looks like it has some ability to go round corners, and its got to be blistering in a straight line (300HP shaped like a bullet and only 475kg)

Nissan to supply engine for DeltaWing Le Mans car - Le Mans news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/98001)

[BDunnell]

I think it's impossible to comment much further until we've seen the first times from Le Mans. I think it's utterly fantastic to see something so different — this is very rare indeed nowadays — and those behind it have the pedigree. I have the highest regard for Dan Gurney in particular. But will it work at Le Mans? We'll see.

[FIAT1]

How to find out if we don't try...i said that! Keep on climbing!!!!

[Robinho]

I think if its going to work anywhere it'll be Le Mans, it may struggle at a more conventional circuit with a lot of high downforce high speed turns, but I for one remain firmly open to the concept and hope they can make it work

[Rollo]

But will it work at Le Mans? We'll see.

I don't think that there's a concept problem but one with power. Only 300bhp?

Newtonian physics says that KE=1/2MV² - If M is constant, then the only way to go faster and faster is to use more and more power. I just don't think you can drive a car to Le Mans speeds anymore with 300bhp. I think that you have to go back to about 1962 to make 300bhp adequate.

[F1boat]

It will be interesting and because it is outside the official classification of the event, there would be no pressure. Just a cool car making laps in one of the greatest series in the world.

[AndyRAC]

And that is why Sportscars are fantastic - a bit of 'outside thinking' is welcomed. Whether it proves to be competitive is another matter, but here's hoping.

[wedge]

I think it's impossible to comment much further until we've seen the first times from Le Mans. I think it's utterly fantastic to see something so different — this is very rare indeed nowadays — and those behind it have the pedigree.

It's too much of a gimmick. Its original intention was for Indycars and their design brief for a next generation car called for gimmicky designs to create more interest in the series.

Personally I don't think it will 'succeed'. The evolution of racecar design has shown that its a machine more for straightlines than corners. However I'm not an engineer and completely agree with your first point.

One thing I do applaud is that we have a race car intended for a top level championship that is not reliant on aerofoils for downforce.

[FIAT1]

Nissan's revolutionary DeltaWing race car hits the track at Le Mans in video - Autoweek (http://www.autoweek.com/article/20120604/ALMS/120609921?)

[Nem14]

The DeltaWing car's fastest lap yesterday was reported as 3:47.980. AutoRacing1.com - Hot News Page (http://autoracing1.com/hotnews.asp?tid=60009)

The Circuit des 24 Heures lap record, apparently set by an LMP1 car in 2010, is listed as 3:19.074 Circuit de la Sarthe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circuit_de_la_Sarthe)

[Robinho]

Best Lap for an LMP2 from the 2011 race (which is roughly where the project was aiming), is a 3:42, so they are very much in the ball park, which is encouraging for the guys making these claims earlier in the project

24 Heures du Mans 2011 − Results (http://www.lemans.org/en/races/24h-du-mans/live-2011/live-timing.html)

[Mark in Oshawa]

If an LMP2 is turning 42's and the Delta is giving up 4 or 5 seconds, it isn't really that much in the ball park because lets face it, Le Mans is mainly about speed, acceleration, and the fast curves leading to the pit straight. I think the D wing is however in the ball park in the sense that it isn't THAT far off that the claims of Bowlby don't hold some merit. I think just a tad more power will get it there. I would love to see it run at a place like my home turf up the road at Mosport (Canadian Tire Motorsport Park now is the official name) or a place where there isn't so much acceleration as fast curves. Le Mans is almost the worst track for this relatively low power design....

That said....it works. Most didn't even think it would corner. To go that fast at LeMans says to me it drives far better than its detractors would have liked.

[AndyRAC]

It fits the criteria of 'Garage 56' - the ACO are happy with it, and importantly Audi genius Ulrich Baretzky is pro DW.....That's good enough for me.

[Robinho]

If an LMP2 is turning 42's and the Delta is giving up 4 or 5 seconds, it isn't really that much in the ball park because lets face it, Le Mans is mainly about speed, acceleration, and the fast curves leading to the pit straight. I think the D wing is however in the ball park in the sense that it isn't THAT far off that the claims of Bowlby don't hold some merit. I think just a tad more power will get it there. I would love to see it run at a place like my home turf up the road at Mosport (Canadian Tire Motorsport Park now is the official name) or a place where there isn't so much acceleration as fast curves. Le Mans is almost the worst track for this relatively low power design....

That said....it works. Most didn't even think it would corner. To go that fast at LeMans says to me it drives far better than its detractors would have liked.

In its 1st appearance at Le Mans, in practice its turned a 3:47. There is plenty of scope for increasing the pace, rather than trashing the car on the 1st run out. Plenty of set up and tweaking to be done before they run full bore. That might only pick up 2-3 seconds, but the LMP2 lap of 3:42 was the best LMP2 lap for the entire field in the whole race. I think the time to judge the laptimes will be in qually or after the race, but they are pretty damn close already, much closer than many predicted

[Lousada]

The car is not allowed faster than 3:45 by ASO so it's pretty well up to pace. I'm sure they could go faster, but I'm also sure the normal P1 & P2 teams could go faster if only they were allowed the same rules, especially the weight limit!

[Mark in Oshawa]

Lousada, if they don't want it to run faster than 3:45, then they better pull it now...because give these guys some time, they may find those last few seconds.

I think the ACO has allowed the car in there...let it run and see how is stands up. It wont challenge the big cars for the overall win, so don't set a number for it...and let it run. I suspect the Delta Wing has changed a lot of people's opinion on what a race car should look like with this run so far...

[Lousada]

Lousada, if they don't want it to run faster than 3:45, then they better pull it now...because give these guys some time, they may find those last few seconds.
If it runs faster they will just give a bit more ballast or a smaller restrictor or whatever, like they do with every car there.


I think the ACO has allowed the car in there...let it run and see how is stands up. It wont challenge the big cars for the overall win, so don't set a number for it...and let it run. I suspect the Delta Wing has changed a lot of people's opinion on what a race car should look like with this run so far...

They haven't allowed it in there. The Deltawing runs an exhibition race as 56th car. And remember that it supposedly needs only half the pitstops so in this scenario it will already finish ahead of the P2s.

[steveaki13]

Shame about the Deltawings problems. It spent 8 odd laps in the pits. Good to see in pounding around again now. should be able to move on up past the GT cars without further issues. Be interested to see if it keeps going for 24 hours.

[Jag_Warrior]

I'm time shifted backwards in watching this year's race on Tivo. But so far, the Deltawing (in what few shots they've shown) appears to be doing quite well, for what it is. And all through the classes, this year's race is very interesting overall. :up:

[GravettFan99]

It's nose was clipped off by a Toyota.

[FIAT1]

Good job they did,shame what happened.

[Mark in Oshawa]

I think the car proved the detractors wrong. It was competitive on time, and for a car with 300 hp to turn laps at that place proves how a tiny slick car can really keep up. Seeing it out there beside the big p1 cars was proof however that there is two different philsophy's out there...

It was unfortunate Nakajima just killed them the way he did, but I do think had the D wing hung around long enough, it would have been in the hunt if it was put in with LMP2's.

[jefezilla]

It's important to remember that this thing had a steep uphill road to Le Mans. The engine couldn't be used as a stressed member, as the original design called for, the tires were an experimental compound and design, and the timetable for getting this guy working was pretty damn aggressive. As far as proof-of-concept designs go, this was about as successful as it gets. More development and parts better suited to this design would create a wickedly fast and efficient endurance racer.

This is a pretty interesting discussion of why the Deltawing isn't the understeering pig everybody thought it would be.
Delta wing Ackermann - Topic (http://fsae.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/125607348/m/52120046151)

[FIAT1]

Good read on the subject....


Gordon Kirby - Auto Racing - The Way It Is (http://www.gordonkirby.com/categories/columns/theway/2012/the_way_it_is_no341.html)

[wedge]

Cult motoring journalist Chris 'Monkey' Harris test drives Delta Wing:

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Great top 5 run at PLM, despite huge shunt caused by Porsche 911 in practice Nissan DeltaWing - Attacked in Atlanta - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uW7qaG9K2_c)

Amazing piece of engineering, amazing race car full stop.

I'll gladly take my hat off and eat it.