Name that Car 2

[!!WALDO!!]

An eagle, a lola, two coyotes, a finlley and a watson.

Yea but years are more fun.
Al was in the 1968 Lola-T.Ford, Bobby in a 1967 Eagle-T/Offy, Foyt in a 1969 Coyote-T/Ford, McCluskey in the 1968.5 Coyote-T/Ford.

Notice at the back is a driver higher than the rest. Charlie Masters in the Gehlhausen Midwest Manufacturing Kurtis 4000 Dirt Car-Offy Built in 1952.

[Bob Riebe]

You are Correct. :bounce:

Your Turn. :)
Sorry but I do not have a library of Indy car photos and I do not want to take a chance posting one that may cause copy-write problems.
Starter is already annoyed with me.

Bob

[garyshell]

Sorry but I do not have a library of Indy car photos and I do not want to take a chance posting one that may cause copy-write problems.
Starter is already annoyed with me.

Bob


There is protection from copyright issues for things like this. It is called "fair use". Or you could just post a link to the photo on another site.

Gary

[garyshell]

While we are waiting for Bob or someone else here is a little humor from practice in Canada today.

http://ak.imgfarm.com/images/ap/F1_Canada_GP_Auto_Racing.sff_XJQB113_2008060616242 3.jpg

Run little buddy, run!

Gary

[!!WALDO!!]

Who was faster? Notice his right front is up in the air.

Hope he is ok.

[Phoenixent]

Here is the next photo.

Driver, Car, Year, & Track

http://shutter13.pictures.aol.com/data/pictures/25/006/3B/9D/00/36/mP5B8XZxcnVk-muXUnBsLAtOEe4Ui4oD0118.jpg

[Alexamateo]

#59
Mike Nish
March 85 Cosworth
Totonto
1986

#20
Emerson Fittipaldi
March 86 Cosworth
same race of course.

[Phoenixent]

#59
Mike Nish
March 85 Cosworth
Totonto
1986

#20
Emerson Fittipaldi
March 86 Cosworth
same race of course.

Right Drivers, Cars, and Year.

Keep Digging. :D

[Alexamateo]

Right Drivers, Cars, and Year.

Keep Digging. :D

Let's try Portland

[!!WALDO!!]

Let's try Portland


Beat me to it.

[Phoenixent]

Let's try Portland

You are Correct. :up:

Your Turn. :)

[Phoenixent]

Beat me to it.

AM is pretty fast sometimes. :D

Great job trying. See what he comes up with.

[Alexamateo]

Here's the next one:

Driver, Car, Track, Year!

Good Luck!

[Alexamateo]

Driver Car Track Year

Good Luck!

[Phoenixent]

Driver- Steve Krisiloff
Year- 1978
Car- Wildcat - DGS
Track- Mosport

[Bob Riebe]

I would say from the color of the soil and type of grass in the pickture, Silverstone UK.

[Bob Riebe]

Give this one a shot.

[Bob Riebe]

If you are an open wheel fanatic try this one.

[Alexamateo]

Driver- Steve Krisiloff
Year- 1978
Car- Wildcat - DGS
Track- Mosport

right driver, car, and year, wrong track.





I would say from the color of the soil and type of grass in the pickture, Silverstone UK.


Right track.

Between the two of you, we have a winner! :D

I see Bob's already posted a couple on new photos and he won earlier without being able to post one, so I'd say Bob's up! ;) :p :)

[!!WALDO!!]

Give this one a shot.

The Picture is from 1973 due to the WING size. It was taken at PIR and in 1973 the Spring race was flooded out. Before the flood a test took place with the Page Racing 1970 Eagle that Mike Hiss drove in 1972 to RoY and got STP Sponsorship after qualifying for the 500.
Hiss was now the Thermo-King Driver.

This driver was Sports Car and Midget driver Bob Criss. (Saw him flip 15 feet away from me at Shaheen's Little Springfield in 1967)

This was Bob's last ride as he was killed in that car.

[Bob Riebe]

The Picture is from 1973 due to the WING size. It was taken at PIR and in 1973 the Spring race was flooded out. Before the flood a test took place with the Page Racing 1970 Eagle that Mike Hiss drove in 1972 to RoY and got STP Sponsorship after qualifying for the 500.
Hiss was now the Thermo-King Driver.

This driver was Sports Car and Midget driver Bob Criss. (Saw him flip 15 feet away from me at Shaheen's Little Springfield in 1967)

This was Bob's last ride as he was killed in that car.
Correct year and track, incorrect car and driver.

[Bob Riebe]

Addendum: (I always liked that word)

The engine in Krisiloff's was the Drake V-8, and it got it best finish ever at that race.

My second photo, IF anyone gets that, I AM IMPRESSED, but I will not drag it out and play teaser.
The driver only attempted two CART races and never got a start.

First photo, he got at least one oval and road race win.

Bob

[!!WALDO!!]

Give this one a shot.

The number screws me up as #41 was assigned as a backup for the Vel's Parnelli Jones team. #4 for Al Unser and #1 for Joe Leonard.

Looking carefully the Engine is a Foyt and the chassis looks like a cross between an Eagle and Foyt's 1972 Coyote.

Eisenhour-Brayton Entry with Lee Brayton, father of the Buick Turbo and the builder of Midget engines and father of Scott.

[Bob Riebe]

The number screws me up as #41 was assigned as a backup for the Vel's Parnelli Jones team. #4 for Al Unser and #1 for Joe Leonard.

Looking carefully the Engine is a Foyt and the chassis looks like a cross between an Eagle and Foyt's 1972 Coyote.

Eisenhour-Brayton Entry with Lee Brayton, father of the Buick Turbo and the builder of Midget engines and father of Scott.
Nope
Remember, the driver won at least two races.
The driver of photo one ran some of the same tracks as driver of photo two.

[!!WALDO!!]

Nope
Remember, the driver won at least two races.
The driver of photo one ran some of the same tracks as driver of photo two.

In 1973 there were 19 former winners and 8 won Roadcourse races. Al, Bobby, Mario, A.J., Gordy, Revson, JR and a rookie Tom Sneva.

[Bob Riebe]

In 1973 there were 19 former winners and 8 won Roadcourse races. Al, Bobby, Mario, A.J., Gordy, Revson, JR and a rookie Tom Sneva.
Bingo, now what chassis!

[!!WALDO!!]

Bingo, now what chassis!

It looks like a 1972 Atlanta-Foyt. Not AJ's modified one.

[Phoenixent]

Bingo, now what chassis!

Tipke - Offy

Photo #2
Driver- Wally Pankratz

[!!WALDO!!]

Tipke - Offy

Look at it is a Foyt. The Tipke car was a 71 Eagle. I caught something with the design that was the 71 McLaren designers hired by Firestone and Gene White to build a Foyt power McLaren.
Three were built and White got two and Foyt, a Goodyear Tire user for supplying the engines.
This car was Lloyd Ruby's 6th place 1972 car. Another one Cale Yarborough drove to 10th became the car Larry McCoy drove in 1975 as a RASCAR/Offy.
Foyt's car made a start at PIR in the Spring of 1972 and scored an 8th, the only points Foyt would get in 1972. (Won the Daytona 500, Ontario 500 in NASCAR and the USAC Dirt Title and finished 37th in the National Championship)
The car in 1974 got a "Coyote" nose and Snider made the race with it. It continued to be entered in the 500 until 1978 but by a different set of owners.
I did a history on those cars 30 years ago but did not have Tom Sneva in the car. It never raced that year.

[Bob Riebe]

Look at it is a Foyt. The Tipke car was a 71 Eagle. I caught something with the design that was the 71 McLaren designers hired by Firestone and Gene White to build a Foyt power McLaren.
Three were built and White got two and Foyt, a Goodyear Tire user for supplying the engines.
This car was Lloyd Ruby's 6th place 1972 car. Another one Cale Yarborough drove to 10th became the car Larry McCoy drove in 1975 as a RASCAR/Offy.
Foyt's car made a start at PIR in the Spring of 1972 and scored an 8th, the only points Foyt would get in 1972. (Won the Daytona 500, Ontario 500 in NASCAR and the USAC Dirt Title and finished 37th in the National Championship)
The car in 1974 got a "Coyote" nose and Snider made the race with it. It continued to be entered in the 500 until 1978 but by a different set of owners.
I did a history on those cars 30 years ago but did not have Tom Sneva in the car. It never raced that year.
The car is a Tipke.
He did not drive it at Phoenix but did at two other tracks.

[Bob Riebe]

Tipke - Offy

Photo #2
Driver- Wally Pankratz
Who built the car?
Track is not necessary

[!!WALDO!!]

The car is a Tipke.
He did not drive it at Phoenix but did at two other tracks.

If you say so but it is a Foyt and an Atlanta. I was around that car in 1972 and the only thing that changed was the color.

[Bob Riebe]

If you say so but it is a Foyt and an Atlanta. I was around that car in 1972 and the only thing that changed was the color.
It was built by Tipke who also built a series of rear-engined super modifieds.

In addition to being an acomplished racer, Tipke was a spectacular fabricator and designer. Tipke built rear engine cars as well as roadsters. Jim Tipke even built a rear engined Indy car that was driven by Tom Sneva. Tipke was years ahead of his time when it came to his fabrication ideas. The Tipke roadster was one of the most popular chassis in the history of CAMRA
In 1971 Tom, Ed Sneva (his dad) and Jim Tipke, along with several others built a team of investors, consultants, and builders. During this time they developed a car design, made a model of it, and then built a full scale wood model of it. By the spring of 1973 they completed the actual car and were off to Indy. Tom qualified for his USAC Drivers license in the car, but during testing blew the 4 cylinder Offy. Attemps to get another engine in it for qualifying fell short of time.

[Alexamateo]

Is this the same car?

Photo is from Victoria Autoracing Hall of Fame.

THe numbers different, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything.

[!!WALDO!!]

Is this the same car?

Photo is from Victoria Autoracing Hall of Fame.

THe numbers different, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything.

That is the Tipke but that is not the same car. The Phoenix test took place after Trenton so we must believe that Tipke raced the Car on April 7th at Texas, as 39 and repainted for the PIR test 41 and then came to Indy as 39. Biggest give away is the Tipke is a NOSE BREATHER and the other is NOT.

PIR was flooded until the Middle of April as they were trying to get the Bryan in. Criss got killed in that test.

[Bob Riebe]

See my post above.

[!!WALDO!!]

See my post above.

Biggest give away is the Tipke is a NOSE BREATHER and the other is NOT.

[Bob Riebe]

Caption from photo below.
---------
Tom Sneva driving the Jim Tipke Indy car at Phoenix International Raceway.

[!!WALDO!!]

Caption from photo below.
---------
Tom Sneva driving the Jim Tipke Indy car at Phoenix International Raceway.

Black strip, note side pods. Note the lack of them on the 39.

Tipke may have owned the car but it was not Offy powered either, I can count 4 on the right side. Foyt stood up more.

[Bob Riebe]

Put it this way, the photos and captions are from people who were well aquainted with both Sneva and Tipke.
It is kind of like telling the Pope he is not a Catholic.

I will give the source later.
Bob

[!!WALDO!!]

Put it this way, the photos and captions are from people who were well aquainted with both Sneva and Tipke.
It is kind of like telling the Pope he is not a Catholic.

I will give the source later.
Bob


Explain why the raced on April 7th as 39, came here as 41 and go back to Indy as 39.

No doubt that Tipke may have rented or borrowed the car but that is not the same car. Bigger side pods and lower nose profile and a wide engine compartment for the Foyt engine.

If I was near my files, I could too find out more info.

I am going to run these through a photo editor and send them to experts I know.
I have been trying to find the Lloyd Ruby Atlanta for 30 years and this just maybe the last known shots of it.

[Phoenixent]

I have been trying to find the Lloyd Ruby Atlanta for 30 years and this just maybe the last known shots of it.

The photo is the Tipke look at the roll bar also the Tipke was run in another class and then converted to USAC standards that is why it has 41 on it.
I have been down this road before. :rolleyes:


Here is Lloyd Ruby's Atlanta
http://shutter11.pictures.aol.com/data/pictures/24/002/6E/FF/F5/D2/vsDAnBEsJaYNZwu7nFW4vm+PbOvgGqvv0258.jpg

[Bob Riebe]

Phoenix:
While trying to find early info on the Tipke Indy car, searches uncoved that Wally drove more than one version of his car, same builder, not unknown to western states.
Bob

[Chris R]

ahh the Tipke - if I recall correctly, the last time this car came up we had a very similar debate and even caused quite a stir on the autosport message board (due, I believe, to my insistence that it was not the Tipke but rather something that Grant King had done - I was wrong...).

Nice set of photos Bob - so what about the #71 is that a Tipke "sprint" car???

[!!WALDO!!]

The photo is the Tipke look at the roll bar also the Tipke was run in another class and then converted to USAC standards that is why it has 41 on it.
I have been down this road before. :rolleyes:


Here is Lloyd Ruby's Atlanta
http://shutter11.pictures.aol.com/data/pictures/24/002/6E/FF/F5/D2/vsDAnBEsJaYNZwu7nFW4vm+PbOvgGqvv0258.jpg


I have this picture and look at the first shot. I am looking for where the car went after Gene White.
Talked to a person this AM and he said it was sold to a person in the Northwest in January of 1973 but never was raced.
He is going to do more digging.
Look carefully you will see these two pictures as one in the same. The TIPKE CAR IS A NOSE BREATHER and this is NOT.

[Phoenixent]

I have this picture and look at the first shot. I am looking for where the car went after Gene White.
Talked to a person this AM and he said it was sold to a person in the Northwest in January of 1973 but never was raced.
He is going to do more digging.
Look carefully you will see these two pictures as one in the same. The TIPKE CAR IS A NOSE BREATHER and this is NOT.

WALDO I am wondering if you can see the trees thru the woods. In 1972 Penske modified the nose on one of the McLaren's to a nose breather as you so call it at Ontario. Changing the nose on a car in the early 70's happened all the time.

You are flogging a dead horse on this one it's a TIPKE. It's time to move on.

[!!WALDO!!]

WALDO I am wondering if you can see the trees thru the woods. In 1972 Penske modified the nose on one of the McLaren's to a nose breather as you so call it at Ontario. Changing the nose on a car in the early 70's happened all the time.

You are flogging a dead horse on this one it's a TIPKE. It's time to move on.

Got a picture? It has to do with plumbing. You need the plumbing for the radiator and the side pods in these cars were RADIATORS.

It may be but not according to my sources that were around at the time as I was.
The only car at Ontario for Penske in 1972 was Mike Hiss in Donohue's 500 winning McLaren. Many times at Phoenix and Ontario a BLACK STRIP was placed on the NOSE to stop PITTING from SAND. This rapidly changed the handling of the car.
The Black in that picture is that.

[Phoenixent]

Got a picture? It has to do with plumbing. You need the plumbing for the radiator and the side pods in these cars were RADIATORS.

It may be but not according to my sources that were around at the time as I was.
The only car at Ontario for Penske in 1972 was Mike Hiss in Donohue's 500 winning McLaren. Many times at Phoenix and Ontario a BLACK STRIP was placed on the NOSE to stop PITTING from SAND. This rapidly changed the handling of the car.
The Black in that picture is that.

Plumbing can be rerouted as for the photo that is your burden of proof. I was at Ontario from 1970 to 1973 with my father and we looked at those cars from pit row side of the track. The mod was still on that McLaren when Jim Hurtubise drove it in 1974. Go look for it.

[Alexamateo]

Jim Hurtubise's McLaren in 1974



FYI :s mokin:

[!!WALDO!!]

Plumbing can be rerouted as for the photo that is your burden of proof. I was at Ontario from 1970 to 1973 with my father and we looked at those cars from pit row side of the track. The mod was still on that McLaren when Jim Hurtubise drove it in 1974. Go look for it.

I have and it wasn't. Why would a team convert the most perfect car to an obsolete set up?

Only one nose breather in 1974 at Indy was Larry Cannon. Again they put a teflon black strip on the nose to avoid pitting.

Here is the history of nose breathers from 1972 on.

Donohue in 1972: 191.400

Fastest Noses Breathers
1972
Mosley 189.140
Rutherford 183.230
McCluskey 182.680
Snider 181.800
Savage 181.720
Kenyon 181.380
Hurtubise 181.050 (1971 Coyote)
Walther 180.540
Williams 180.460 (1966 Eagle)
Martin 179.610
Kunzman 179.260
Caruthers 178.900

Fastest Noses Breathers
1973
NONE

Fastest Noses Breathers
1974
Cannon 173.960

[!!WALDO!!]

Jim Hurtubise's McLaren in 1974



FYI :s mokin:


I don't see a radiator in the nose. I see Jim had the side mounted radiator pulled down a bit.

It is IMPOSSIBLE to replumb a side breather to a nose breather but not the other way.

The 1973 Kenyon/Coyote-Eagle/Foyt would be the last one. A 1967 Coyote.

[Bob Riebe]

I have Opera and was able to enlarge the image 200 percent; there are two small openings in the nose.
What they do who knows, perhaps and extra oil cooler for the blower or who knows what.
Bob

[!!WALDO!!]

I have Opera and was able to enlarge the image 200 percent; there are two small openings in the nose.
What they do who knows, perhaps and extra oil cooler for the blower or who knows what.
Bob

Nope, the 1972 and 1973 cars ran with bigger wings, front and back. These cars when they were clipped at Pocono in 1973 became handfuls. So USAC allowed all 1972 and 1973 this small openings to increase the front downforce and allow for something very important, better stearing.
Problem was in 1974 when Gurney built an Eagle and McLaren built a new car these cars were considerably slower due to that.

Part of history. Oil Coolers were located as part of the radiator system. Some were split as I understand it.

[Chris R]

What are we all arguing about here anyway?

When this car came up before, it was finally settled that it was indeed the car that raced as a Tipke. Whether or not Mr. Tipke used an Eagle or Foyt or Atlanta as the basis or not was not discussed and as near as I can tell would be speculation. Perhaps we should ask the guy himself (or his survivors - do not know if he is alive...)
http://www.tipkemfg.com/

As for Waldo's explanation of the nose holes - you mean the new Ferrari snout is not original??? :D Seems like a pretty good explanation for the McLaren and is consistent with Phoenix's first hand observations.

That being said - the #41 in the original photo clearly has a big enough opening in the nose to accommodate radiators you can see the shadow lines of the inside corners of the opening- it does not appear to be protective tape to me.....

Not to further stray from the issue - but re-plumbing a car is really no big deal - the Tyrell cars of Jackie Stewart ran both front and rear/side mounted configurations on the same car. It might not have been pretty (water pipes exposed etc.) but it most certainly CAN be done. For that matter - the original Bob Riley Coyote of 1973 had side radiators but the later versions had front mounted radiators (or at least some front mounted cooling). Actually, if you wanted to get real technical - I would imagine the fastest front radiatored car ever at Indy was probably Foyt's 1978 Coyote (I think it qualified at over 200 mph). If you can put a V-12 Voekler engine in a 1972 Antares I think you can move the radiator on an M-16 McLaren (not saying this is what happened - but it CAN be done)....

So, Bob, can you re-cap the info on these cars???

[Bob Riebe]

THe site with the info on Jim Tipke is under developement, and yes one can try to call his company and speak to him.
I will not give the web site just yet as I want to see if anyone can find out who built Wally Pankratz's RE car.(Not a Tipke)
Bob

[Alexamateo]

I will not give the web site just yet as I want to see if anyone can find out who built Wally Pankratz's RE car.(Not a Tipke)
Bob


I don't know, but I am trying to make an educated guess here. Wally Pankratz never made an Indycar start, but did have two appearances at Riverside and Phoenix in a King-Chevy, so I'm going to say that he took that car and made a supermod out of it, so I'll say it's a Grant King car.

[Bob Riebe]

I don't know, but I am trying to make an educated guess here. Wally Pankratz never made an Indycar start, but did have two appearances at Riverside and Phoenix in a King-Chevy, so I'm going to say that he took that car and made a supermod out of it, so I'll say it's a Grant King car.
Good try, but Nope, purpose built, check around western tracks where he ran.

[Phoenixent]

Is the coast clear. :D

Any way I will be back shortly with some info I hope on Wally Pankratz car.

Just FYI Ruby's Atlanta has opening in the nose at Indy 1972. :)

[!!WALDO!!]

Just FYI Ruby's Atlanta has opening in the nose at Indy 1972. :)

So where was the picture taken Trenton? I was there when it qualified and I didn't see one.

So take a car that is a 190MPH and increase the weight, make it plow through the air instead of cut and make it more expensive, to go 180. Glad I didn't see that when it occurred.

Foyt had a areo devise in the nose of the car, that is why he had it covered everytime in the pits. Actually Howard Gilbert came up with that in 1975.

Nope, Larry Cannon had the last nose breather in the race and the V-12 Voekler engine never made it into 1972 Antares or any other car. F-1 rules differed than rules here.

I got three calls saying it was an Atlanta and the FOYT ENGING GIVES IT AWAY but it is a Tipke Offy.

Hey, two of them worked for Gene White what would they know.

Move one.

[Chris R]

is this the Coyote you think it is - the one with the Eagle bulkheads??

[Chris R]

or this Atlanta-Foyt??

[Phoenixent]

So where was the picture taken Trenton? I was there when it qualified and I didn't see one.

So take a car that is a 190MPH and increase the weight, make it plow through the air instead of cut and make it more expensive, to go 180. Glad I didn't see that when it occurred.


OK WALDO SINCE YOU HAVE NOT OFFERED ANY PROOF OF WHAT YOU SAY OTHER THAN I WAS THERE OR SOMEONE SAID HERE IS ANOTHER PHOTO FOR YOU FROM 1972 INDY QUALIFING. IF YOU ARE GOING TO SAYS SOMETHING BACK IT UP WITH SOMETHING SOLID. YOU HAVE DRAGGED THIS ON FOR WAY TO LONG.

http://shutter12.pictures.aol.com/data/pictures/25/006/3D/BF/67/74/-wMFDD8pHWS3DhxN35kHMwElCumjZdy20280.jpg
Notice the nose square and with tape over it.

[Chris R]

I am not thinking that intake plenum that looks like a Foyt is actually on a Foyt engine - you cannot see the requisite plumbing above it in the center of the engine that would be there - especially the rather large thing sticking up on most 1972 Foyts I can find a photo of..... The rollbars look different and the nose appears to be much shorter (less space between the wings and the tires on the photo in question)... Also the cowling leading up to the cockpit is a much gentler slope than the Atlanta.

I am not saying all this to be combative - I am very curious as to the lineage oaf this car as well as the Atlanta in question - which I always wondered what an "Atlanta" was about anyway.....

[Phoenixent]

To everyone else forgive my yelling.

[!!WALDO!!]

OK WALDO SINCE YOU HAVE NOT OFFERED ANY PROOF OF WHAT YOU SAY OTHER THAN I WAS THERE OR SOMEONE SAID HERE IS ANOTHER PHOTO FOR YOU FROM 1972 INDY QUALIFING. IF YOU ARE GOING TO SAYS SOMETHING BACK IT UP WITH SOMETHING SOLID. YOU HAVE DRAGGED THIS ON FOR WAY TO LONG.

http://shutter12.pictures.aol.com/data/pictures/25/006/3D/BF/67/74/-wMFDD8pHWS3DhxN35kHMwElCumjZdy20280.jpg
Notice the nose square and with tape over it.

Interesting but the car had handling problems and this was one way of getting pass it. This car was not a handling dream and was having a problem turning. Now is that a Radiator? No, the cut the nose off as they did to the #21.
Believe what you want but look at the engine and compare that to the first shot. This a plumber's dream, a Foyt engine.

Oh yes I was standing about even with the front wing to the right of that picture.
This picture makes the other one stand out even better.

[!!WALDO!!]

I am not thinking that intake plenum that looks like a Foyt is actually on a Foyt engine - you cannot see the requisite plumbing above it in the center of the engine that would be there - especially the rather large thing sticking up on most 1972 Foyts I can find a photo of..... The rollbars look different and the nose appears to be much shorter (less space between the wings and the tires on the photo in question)... Also the cowling leading up to the cockpit is a much gentler slope than the Atlanta.

I am not saying all this to be combative - I am very curious as to the lineage oaf this car as well as the Atlanta in question - which I always wondered what an "Atlanta" was about anyway.....

It was built and designed by the guys that built the 1971 McLaren and paid for by Firestone and Gene White.
Built in suburban Atlanta and only had three cars built.

[!!WALDO!!]

is this the Coyote you think it is - the one with the Eagle bulkheads??

Nope, this the the 1972 Coyote that was bad.

[!!WALDO!!]

or this Atlanta-Foyt??

This car became the Larry McCoy RASCAR-Offy in 1973-1976

[Chris R]

So where was the picture taken Trenton? I was there when it qualified and I didn't see one.

So take a car that is a 190MPH and increase the weight, make it plow through the air instead of cut and make it more expensive, to go 180. Glad I didn't see that when it occurred.

Foyt had a areo devise in the nose of the car, that is why he had it covered everytime in the pits. Actually Howard Gilbert came up with that in 1975.

Nope, Larry Cannon had the last nose breather in the race and the V-12 Voekler engine never made it into 1972 Antares or any other car. F-1 rules differed than rules here.

I got three calls saying it was an Atlanta and the FOYT ENGING GIVES IT AWAY but it is a Tipke Offy.

Hey, two of them worked for Gene White what would they know.

Move one.

ok, it was in an Eagle :D

[Chris R]

another shot of the Olmstead Eage-Voekler

[Chris R]

If it is an Atlanta-Foyt the who is driving, where and when??

[!!WALDO!!]

another shot of the Olmstead Eage-Voekler

Looks like a 1973 Eagle with a tumor on it.

EXTREMELY RARE PHOTO!

[!!WALDO!!]

If it is an Atlanta-Foyt the who is driving, where and when??

That was the second Gene White entry, (I REFERED TO) that was driven by Cale Yarborough at the Speedway to 10th. He was the slowest qualifier but still faster than Peter Revson in 1971, the pole sitter.

http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=487962&postcount=2054

[Chris R]

That was the second Gene White entry, (I REFERED TO) that was driven by Cale Yarborough at the Speedway to 10th. He was the slowest qualifier but still faster than Peter Revson in 1971, the pole sitter.

http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=487962&postcount=2054

Ok, but who is the driver and track then - did this second entry make it to Phoenix??

[Chris R]

Guys, for what it is worth - I went back to the archives and we actually never actually figured out this car - we just sort of moved on. The problem was that the number on the car never jived with anything in 1972 or 1973 in the era of big wings. It was more or less agreed that the car must be the Tipke but that is where it was left....

[Chris R]

That was the second Gene White entry, (I REFERED TO) that was driven by Cale Yarborough at the Speedway to 10th. He was the slowest qualifier but still faster than Peter Revson in 1971, the pole sitter.

http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=487962&postcount=2054

But that car was #21 - so who is in this #41 car and where is it??

[!!WALDO!!]

But that car was #21 - so who is in this #41 car and where is it??

According to some it is Tom Sneva in the Tipke-Offy at a PIR test in April of 1973 as the March race was flooded out and cancelled.

The car ran at TWS as #39, they put #41 for this PIR test around the 18th of April and then went back to #39 for Indy. A driver was killed in this test.

The car has a Foyt engine in it and now looks like the #5 Ruby car of 1972.

I wrote about the Atlantas 30 years ago and we lost track of the #5 car. I was told a day or two ago it was sold to someone in the Northwest. That car could very well have become that Supermodified also.

The #41 number in 1973 was a Vel's Parnelli Jones Back up number, #4 Al Unser, #1 Leonard.

For what it is worth it was a car very rarely seen and in the case of the #5, if it is not the #41 then it disappeared in to the Cascade mountains.

[Bob Riebe]

But that car was #21 - so who is in this #41 car and where is it??
I am going to say this once and not debate it, the orange 41 car is the Tipke car.
If you think otherwise, then tell Jim Tipke it is not his car.
Cars get changed while being developed.

[!!WALDO!!]

I am going to say this once and not debate it, the orange 41 car is the Tipke car.
If you think otherwise, then tell Jim Tipke it is not his car.
Cars get changed while being developed.

Not disagreeing but it already had race when that picture was taken. That is the issue, with a different number and a whole different look and when it arrived at the Speedway it looked like it did at TWS.

Lot of work to get to square one.

Let's move on, put up another car.

[Chris R]

As for the Pankratz car - I am looked and looked and I cannot find anything about that spcifically - I am going to take a wild guess and say Luije Lesovsky - but I imagine I am wrong.....

[!!WALDO!!]

As for the Pankratz car - I am looked and looked and I cannot find anything about that spcifically - I am going to take a wild guess and say Luije Lesovsky - but I imagine I am wrong.....

In the northwest you have to look to those folks. Like I said the car that is that isn't very well could be that Supermodiified since it wasn't a Nose Breather.

(Again economic would not cause someone to convert a car for a series at the time that spread $2,500 around per date to 25 competitors.)

[Phoenixent]

Greg Pieper built Wally Pankratz rear engine car.

[!!WALDO!!]

Greg Pieper built Wally Pankratz rear engine car.

Did he build that one or the sidewinder that he drove in the late 1970's? This car was an Indy car at one time and was modified. That is were cars went until USAC took over Super Racing in the west.

Even in the East the car that Troy Ruttman Jr. was killed in carried the name of the modifier not the fact it was an Eddie Kuzma Laydown Roadster that Troy Sr. drove from 30th to second and burned a piston in 1962.

It took years to determine that was that car. So I do remember those super days as many drivers prior to Tom/Jerry/Blaine came out of that area.

[Bob Riebe]

Greg Pieper built Wally Pankratz rear engine car.
Give the man a cigar!

[Phoenixent]

Give the man a cigar!

Thanks Bob. :bandit:

It's cool little car that Wally drove sure would like to see more of them on the tracks. It gets tiring see the same old front engine jobs other there.

New photo coming up.

[Phoenixent]

Drivers, Cars, Year, & Track

http://shutter11.pictures.aol.com/data/pictures/25/00A/7A/FF/40/B7/+GSqBo76Wb7kBEZ9jRmKidQF7+4Q9Uz20190.jpg

[!!WALDO!!]

Drivers, Cars, Year, & Track

http://shutter11.pictures.aol.com/data/pictures/25/00A/7A/FF/40/B7/+GSqBo76Wb7kBEZ9jRmKidQF7+4Q9Uz20190.jpg

I will take a flyer. The helmet looks like Gary Bettenhausen, the car a 1985 March--Cosworth, the owner is Leader Card, Mechanic A.J. Watson.
It appears to be Phoenix in 1986. (Thought it was a 1986 but does not have crown rollbar.)

Just missing Gordon Van Liew's Vita Fresh OJ Sponsorship. The number gave it away in the BRIGHT ORANGE.

[Phoenixent]

I will take a flyer. The helmet looks like Gary Bettenhausen, the car a 1985 March--Cosworth, the owner is Leader Card, Mechanic A.J. Watson.
It appears to be Phoenix in 1986. (Thought it was a 1986 but does not have crown rollbar.)

Just missing Gordon Van Liew's Vita Fresh OJ Sponsorship. The number gave it away in the BRIGHT ORANGE.

Right Year, Driver and Car. :up:

Wrong Track also still need info on other car.

[!!WALDO!!]

Right Year, Driver and Car. :up:

Wrong Track also still need info on other car.

The other car is Josele Garza and that is a March 86C Cosworth. The Machinist Union Car

Then it is at Milwaukee.

[Phoenixent]

The other car is Josele Garza and that is a March 86C Cosworth. The Machinist Union Car

Then it is at Milwaukee.

Right Car. :up:

The 55 car had several drivers in it as Garza switched between the 55 and 59 cars.

It's not Milwaukee.

[!!WALDO!!]

Right Car. :up:

The 55 car had several drivers in it as Garza switched between the 55 and 59 cars.

It's not Milwaukee.

Then Johnny Parsons. The problem I have is my records show the March 85C racing only Phoenix and the September MIS race.
I do not remember MIS with a Pit wall. Could not be Sanair as it is a March 86 C there.

The CROWN rollbar that made the 86C show up is missing in this picture. So I give up.

[Phoenixent]

Then Johnny Parsons. The problem I have is my records show the March 85C racing only Phoenix and the September MIS race.
I do not remember MIS with a Pit wall. Could not be Sanair as it is a March 86 C there.

The CROWN rollbar that made the 86C show up is missing in this picture. So I give up.

WALDO you are Correct. :up:

It is Johnny Parsons and it is MIS.

Johnny's helmet detail shows better on the original photo.

Your Turn.

[!!WALDO!!]

WALDO you are Correct. :up:

It is Johnny Parsons and it is MIS.

Johnny's helmet detail shows better on the original photo.

Your Turn.

Just dig up a photo for me. Slap it up there.

[Phoenixent]

Okay WALDO here is a new photo. :)

Driver, Car, Year, & Track

http://shutter03.pictures.aol.com/data/pictures/07/007/5F/AF/6B/63/QHPMqZJomrhmzAoeCcXwmMe1KTtYcjbC01C9.jpg

[!!WALDO!!]

Okay WALDO here is a new photo. :)

Driver, Car, Year, & Track

http://shutter03.pictures.aol.com/data/pictures/07/007/5F/AF/6B/63/QHPMqZJomrhmzAoeCcXwmMe1KTtYcjbC01C9.jpg

Wow, I have had nightmares about this car. Could this be the 3rd place finisher of the first Ontario 500?

I recognize Rolla handy work in the Chassis and Anthony Joseph's engine.

A real nose breather, circa 1969 but this was a year later.

[Phoenixent]

Wow, I have had nightmares about this car. Could this be the 3rd place finisher of the first Ontario 500?

I recognize Rolla handy work in the Chassis and Anthony Joseph's engine.

A real nose breather, circa 1969 but this was a year later.

Right Car WALDO. :up:

[Bob Riebe]

Dick Simon

[Phoenixent]

Dick Simon

Keep Digging.

[!!WALDO!!]

Right Car WALDO. :up:

There is a great history of Rolla built cars. Funny thing is his first was a dirt car that was still operating in 1968 in the Tassi Vatis team as a Dirt car for Wally Dallenbach after being built over the winter of 1957-1958.

Really interesting, a car owner, builder and sometimes a wrench twister.

(NO REFERENCE, IMPLIED OR REAL TO ANY POSTER, LIVING, DEAD, or NOT YET BORN.)

[Bob Riebe]

Carlos Pairetti-- Rafaela, Argentina

[!!WALDO!!]

Carlos Pairetti-- Rafaela, Argentina

Now Wow that is the name out of the past. Came to Indy in 1970 in the #8 Wynn's Agajanian Shrike. Almost scared him to walking.

(NO REFERENCE, IMPLIED OR REAL TO ANY POSTER, LIVING, DEAD, or NOT YET BORN.)

[Phoenixent]

Carlos Pairetti-- Rafaela, Argentina

Nice one Bob. :up:

I thought it would take a little longer on this one since he is an unknown.

Your Turn. :)

[!!WALDO!!]

This car has a more interesting history. As it was built in 1969 and Larry Dickson in the #21 Bryant Heating Cooling started 31st and finished 9th, at the 500. The car got wrecked in the famous first lap crash at Milwaukee that almost wrecked the whole field. It showed again at Kent with John Cannon and finished 5th and 10th. This was Dick Simon's first effort in the leased 1968 #17 All Season Sports sponsored ride but he did not start. Cannon and Simon missed the PIR show by being too slow. At Riverside Simon wrecked after he qualified and Cannon went one lap.
Rolla Vollstedt then sold that car, #21 to Dick Simon and he drove it to 10th in the 1970 points. At Indy in 1971 this was the car qualified by John Mahler and Dick Simon took over and drove due to sponsor commitments. Dick drove the car at Trenton prior as #10 and scored a 7th. Dick drove it at Milwaukee and John Mahler drove at Pocono. That was the last time the car was seen.

(NO REFERENCE, IMPLIED OR REAL TO ANY POSTER, LIVING, DEAD, or NOT YET BORN.)

[Bob Riebe]

Try this one.

[Chris R]

I am going to go with Dick Ferguson at Michigan in 1979 in what is listed as a Spyder-Offy.

The car looks a lot to me like the Fletcher-Eagle that Wayne Leary modified for Bobby Unser driving for Bob Fletcher in 1976....

nice picture......

[!!WALDO!!]

I am going to go with Dick Ferguson at Michigan in 1979 in what is listed as a Spyder-Offy.

The car looks a lot to me like the Fletcher-Eagle that Wayne Leary modified for Bobby Unser driving for Bob Fletcher in 1976....

nice picture......

It is the Fletcher car, 3 years later. Not all records are correct. That car won the PIR Bryan and the Ontario 500 and it has swiggling marks below the number in 1976 and appears that way in this.

Car was copper.

[Bob Riebe]

OK, now this is why finding photos is hard as Spyder is correct, BUT driver is wrong and who built the car?
THe source is not one hundred percent sure, but I am going with what they think this is the original, so builder is a must.
There is a better early original.picture but it cannot be transferred.
Think 1974, NOt the year of this picture.

Give me driver of this picture and original builder in 1974.

[Chris R]

Bob Frey as the driver? (I guess that would be Pocono in 1980 then)

Car was originally an Eagle in 1974 as far as I know.....

[Bob Riebe]

This is on the assumption from the source that it is the same Spyder, it was not made FROM anything, which why the builder must be listed.
Wrong driver, picture from very important track, car may not have started.

[Chris R]

Frank Fiore, a United Airlines machinist built the original Spyder in 1974 - but judging from this picture, I think the photo is probably mis-labelled.....
http://www.sherline.com/tourpics/asbydept.jpg

[Chris R]

Champcarstats.com only list 3 appearances for the Spyder - 2 in 1979 at Michigan and 1 at Pocono in 1980 the two 1979 with Dick Ferguson and the 1980 with Bob Frey (was DNQ).

Since it was a Hoffman Racing car my other best guess would e Joe Salanda at Indy....

[Chris R]

I found some references (again in champcarstats.com) to a Fiore raced in 1975-1977 by Hoffman Racing with the number 43 and driven by Ken Nichols and Jerry Karl to no avail...

[!!WALDO!!]

Frank Fiore, a United Airlines machinist built the original Spyder in 1974 - but judging from this picture, I think the photo is probably mis-labelled.....
http://www.sherline.com/tourpics/asbydept.jpg

Problem is this is one of Hoffman's cars. #59, #69 and #79. #59 was a Lightning, #69 was 1973 Eagle and #79 was the Leary Modified Eagle, Gus bought from Bob Fletcher in 1977. They rarely raced it.

In 1980 Gus leased a PC-7 and they ran it at PIR with Joe Saldana that was also #79. Joe spent the season in the #59 Lightning and #79 made an appearance at Pocono and was wrecked. That car was the Leary modified Eagle. By late 1980 the car was obsolete.

I saw the Fiore Spyder and again, this isn't it.

Interesting on this site, the 1978 winner of the Pocono and Ontario was a Chaparral according to this site. Al Unser drove the Chaparral the whole season except at Indy when he drove a LOLA. Problem is every race was a LOLA as he was the "factory" LOLA effort.

Again counting on the internet rather than real eye balls gets you screwed up.

(NO REFERENCE, IMPLIED OR REAL TO ANY POSTER, LIVING, DEAD, or NOT YET BORN.)

[Bob Riebe]

Champcarstats.com only list 3 appearances for the Spyder - 2 in 1979 at Michigan and 1 at Pocono in 1980 the two 1979 with Dick Ferguson and the 1980 with Bob Frey (was DNQ).

Since it was a Hoffman Racing car my other best guess would e Joe Salanda at Indy....
Correct as to Fiore builder and driver and track.

I do not want to go through many pages but last post I checked they were not sure if Fiore built more than one spyder, but that is one is probably the 1974 car but at the point I quit digging your info is correct.
Bob
PS--No one thinks the Fiore Spyder actually raced, or tried to before 1975

[Chris R]

Problem is this is one of Hoffman's cars. #59, #69 and #79. #59 was a Lightning, #69 was 1973 Eagle and #79 was the Leary Modified Eagle, Gus bought from Bob Fletcher in 1977. They rarely raced it.

In 1980 Gus leased a PC-7 and they ran it at PIR with Joe Saldana that was also #79. Joe spent the season in the #59 Lightning and #79 made an appearance at Pocono and was wrecked. That car was the Leary modified Eagle. By late 1980 the car was obsolete.

I saw the Fiore Spyder and again, this isn't it.

Interesting on this site, the 1978 winner of the Pocono and Ontario was a Chaparral according to this site. Al Unser drove the Chaparral the whole season except at Indy when he drove a LOLA. Problem is every race was a LOLA as he was the "factory" LOLA effort.

Again counting on the internet rather than real eye balls gets you screwed up.

(NO REFERENCE, IMPLIED OR REAL TO ANY POSTER, LIVING, DEAD, or NOT YET BORN.)

Yeah, I think Phil Harms actually got the Lola / Chaparral thing wrong and it shows up in lots of places.... just like anything else, the internet is a tool and is highly falliable - just like us ;)

[Chris R]

here is a nearly impossible one - good luck and just let me know if you want me to give the answer. Looking for the track, year, and lead driver/car.

[Bob Riebe]

The car was what it was called for the threads purpose and therefore guessed correctly.
It was NOT the Fiore as I found a picture of the Fiore and it had number 43 and looked differently.
Now it is your turn, good luck.
Bob

[Bob Riebe]

Woodbridge- New Jersey 1931-Duesenberg-Fred Fame

[Chris R]

so much for nearly impossible!! :p

I guess I got too lazy and left the name on the photo huh??

you've got it - your turn!

[Bob Riebe]

so much for nearly impossible!! :p

I guess I got too lazy and left the name on the photo huh??

you've got it - your turn!
No my minor in college was Information Media and one instructor would send us to the library, pre-net days or even good electronic card catalog, to find some obscure information and details attached to it.

You learn to ignore the obvious as rarely are oddities found in seemingly "obvious" places.
Bob

[Bob Riebe]

Waldo will probably nail this one but here it is: Car, year, driver, track

[!!WALDO!!]

Waldo will probably nail this one but here it is: Car, year, driver, track


It is Indy, it is a 1978 McLaren/Cosworth. It is Don Mergard's car out of Cincy, and tried to qualify in 1981 and 1982 with Phil Threshie in 1981 and Teddy Pilette in 1982. Helmet looks gold though so it could be Bob Harkey on a shake down but Phil ran almost the same helmet.

No it wasn't the Crombie Zombie as that was an old Vollstedt.

(NO REFERENCE, IMPLIED OR REAL TO ANY POSTER, LIVING, DEAD, or NOT YET BORN.)

[!!WALDO!!]

Yeah, I think Phil Harms actually got the Lola / Chaparral thing wrong and it shows up in lots of places.... just like anything else, the internet is a tool and is highly falliable - just like us ;)

There were a lot of mistakes that is why I use notes, NSSN and USAC stuff to determine my 1968 stuff. Plus EYE BALLS.

(NO REFERENCE, IMPLIED OR REAL TO ANY POSTER, LIVING, DEAD, or NOT YET BORN.)

[Chris R]

It is Indy, it is a 1978 McLaren/Cosworth. It is Don Mergard's car out of Cincy, and tried to qualify in 1981 and 1982 with Phil Threshie in 1981 and Teddy Pilette in 1982. Helmet looks gold though so it could be Bob Harkey on a shake down but Phil ran almost the same helmet.

No it wasn't the Crombie Zombie as that was an old Vollstedt.

(NO REFERENCE, IMPLIED OR REAL TO ANY POSTER, LIVING, DEAD, or NOT YET BORN.)

that's an M-16-Offy - not an M-24-Cosworth... didn't do any other looking....

[!!WALDO!!]

that's an M-16-Offy - not an M-24-Cosworth... didn't do any other looking....

I am looking at too but it is later due the cockpit walls. It looks like one of the Team McLaren spares sold off, could be a 1977.

(NO REFERENCE, IMPLIED OR REAL TO ANY POSTER, LIVING, DEAD, or NOT YET BORN.)

[!!WALDO!!]

It is the Buddy Boys Entry from Canada, it is an Eldon Rassmussen modified Atlanta that Larry McCoy raced in the mid 1970's with a Chevy Engine installed.

Bobby Harkey actual flagged off a run in 1980, way too slow. Taken at the Speedway in 1980.

I was there and plain forgot about that effort. Both Buddy and Trevor ran some races and I think Trevor ran a NCTS race not that long ago.


(NO REFERENCE, IMPLIED OR REAL TO ANY POSTER, LIVING, DEAD, or NOT YET BORN.)

[Chris R]

I was thinking those radiator pods looked pretty Ras-car like.... nice find!

[Bob Riebe]

If whom ever is saying Harkey, Indy, 1980, Ras-car that is correct, if one did not well that is the answer

[!!WALDO!!]

I was thinking those radiator pods looked pretty Ras-car like.... nice find!

I was working there and stubbed my toe on that car in 1980, literally.

I forgot the car but remembered the pain, and the Atlanta emblem on it.

It was listed OFFICIALLY as an RASCAR-Atlanta, as there was a RASCAR-Vollstedt also.

The first is the modifier the second is the chassis. Harkey drove the following type of car twice in 1973 and 1974.

KENYON-Coyote-Eagle/Foyt

The Chassis was an Eagle, 1967 in nature, the body was orginally Joe Leonard's/Jim McElreath Coyote from 1967/1968 and modified by Don Kenyon.

It has been listed in pictures as a Kenyon/Foyt. One then assumes it was built by Don but it wasn't.

(NO REFERENCE, IMPLIED OR REAL TO ANY POSTER, LIVING, DEAD, or NOT YET BORN.)

[!!WALDO!!]

Two cars, who are they, where, what kind of cars and the significant this historic picture for the two drivers.

[!!WALDO!!]

This system sticks.

This is a qualifying photo from Indy. Who is it.

[szautke]

Pedro Rodriguez, 1967 Indy, DNQ,Watson-Ford of Leader Card Racers. At the following race at the Milwaukee Mile, Jim Hurtubise drove the car.

[!!WALDO!!]

Pedro Rodriguez, 1967 Indy, DNQ,Watson-Ford of Leader Card Racers. At the following race at the Milwaukee Mile, Jim Hurtubise drove the car.


He qualified but was bumped, thus an official photo.


You're up.....

[Phoenixent]

Hello. :D

[!!WALDO!!]

Ok we are going to change this up a bit. This photo has three pieces of history in it. The white car and the dark car had its own history and the two combined did also.

So besides the year, drivers and where. Try to name the chassis and engines (One rare) and the histories that this picture refect.

This was a very famous picture in its time.

[Phoenixent]

Drivers- Rick Muther, and Gig Stephens
Year- 1970
Car- Gerhardt - Pratt & Whitney and Halibrand - Ford
Track- Langhorne

Last race that a Turbine powered car qualified

[!!WALDO!!]

Drivers- Rick Muther, and Gig Stephens
Year- 1970
Car- Gerhardt - Pratt & Whitney and Halibrand - Ford
Track- Langhorne

Last race that a Turbine powered car qualified

Not close.... Years before and miles southwest and two drivers that found themselves on a trophy.

[Bob Riebe]

Parnelli Jones blown offy Shrike.

[!!WALDO!!]

Parnelli Jones blown offy Shrike.

That is one. But what was historic about Parnelli in that car that day?

Of course where more or less answers the second historical question.

[Bob Riebe]

It was the last race at Phoenix, but the photo is to small to tell what the other cars is and historic about Parnelli, no idea, other than he retired from all but Indy there.

[!!WALDO!!]

It was the last race at Phoenix, but the photo is to small to tell what the other cars is and historic about Parnelli, no idea, other than he retired from all but Indy there.

Why was he there? He last drove at the Milwaukee Mays 100 in 1965 and won. His second to last start on the Championship trail outside of Indy. This was his last.
Once you figure out why he was there then it answers the second car and why who was driving it.

[Alexamateo]

1966 Phoenix II

Parnelli Jones Shrike-Offy, replacing Dick Atkins in the #98 after he had been killed 1 week prior.

The other is Peter Revson in the Lotus, making his Indy/Champcar debut.

[!!WALDO!!]

1966 Phoenix II

Parnelli Jones Shrike-Offy, replacing Dick Atkins in the #98 after he had been killed 1 week prior.

The other is Peter Revson in the Lotus, making his Indy/Champcar debut.


Yes to the first but that ties into the second car.

Parnelli in the Phillipp-Jones/Shrike-Super Offy in 1966 at Phoenix replacing Dick Atkins who was killed at Ascot Park a week earlier. Parnelli's last start on the Championship Trail outside of Indy.

This picture made every racing publication and even the Champaign, IL newspaper. HUGE HINT!

[Alexamateo]

Then I'll say it's Foyt in the first Coyote, although I am just guessing and really don't know how the two would be related.

[!!WALDO!!]

Then I'll say it's Foyt in the first Coyote, although I am just guessing and really don't know how the two would be related.

Nope, you got to think of Atkins. The driver of this car would get his face on the big trophy with this team. He actually drove this exact car at Langhorne in 1967 and this car was in the 500 with a different driver and a different number. One from.....

[Phoenixent]

Al Unser in a Lola - Ford

Just a shot in the dark. :D

[driversdomainuk]

Lola - yeap though so!

[!!WALDO!!]

Al Unser in a Lola - Ford

Just a shot in the dark. :D

In your answer, not Al and not a Lola. Do you understand what I am saying?

[Phoenixent]

Bobby Unser in a Gerhardt - Ford

[!!WALDO!!]

Bobby Unser in a Gerhardt - Ford

Ok why is that historic? Why was the picture sent everywhere?

[SoCalPVguy]

Sorry no message

[!!WALDO!!]

Ok someone got Adkins getting killed but 2 drivers died in that crash.

Bobby Unser had driven a few races in 1966 for Leader Card on the Watson side of things. Leader Card driver on the Jud Phillips side was Don Branson. After the 1966 Hoosier 100, Branson announced he was retiring from racing at then end of the season. Bobby Unser was hired to drive for Branson and to that end he would drive the #4 Gerhardt-Ford at Trenton but wrecked it. Branson drove the #95 1963 Watson-Offy Roadster.
After Atkins won at Sacramento and Branson finished fourth, the Leader Card team was going to change the Branson #4 Gerhardt to #91 and Branson would qualify his #4 Dirt Car, a car that sat on the pole at the Langhorne 200 in July at PIR. Bobby would drive the #91.

Don Branson died in that crash at Ascot with Atkins. So the Krueger photo ran everywhere as a tribute to the men fallen. Jones for Adkins and Unser for Branson, both cars driven most of the season by those men.
That is why it was also in the Champaign, IL newspaper as it was home for Branson.

Good photographers got more than just two cars racing, he saw a picture that refected the racing world's sadness of the time.

Unser stayed with the Jud Phillips wrench effort until Sacramento of 1970.

[Phoenixent]

Very Cool Story WALDO. :up:

It is some thing I did not know about. Your work is Great. :)

[!!WALDO!!]

Very Cool Story WALDO. :up:

It is some thing I did not know about. Your work is Great. :)

I found that picture and it always moved my emotions as it did when I saw it in 1966.

I got to be friends with Don's brother, Don's son Roger and his grand kids and nephews in recent years.

In 1966, Don won at Springfield, I was there. He won a Sprint race at Milwaukee a week later, I was there. His last win.

When a friend of mine told me of a death of two drivers over the weekend, I could not believe my eyes when I saw two names of drivers I liked.

See these photos do have a history and many times we must pay attention to that history.

Thank you....

[!!WALDO!!]

Here is another photo from Indy but hint, it wasn't qualifying but a publicity photo.

So who is the driver in this photo, the year and make of the Chassis, the year it was taken and how it did in the 500 with whom driving it.

[Phoenixent]

Driver- Tony Rolt
Year- 1963
Car- 1963 Kurtis - Novi
Track- Indianapolis

Finished 21st with Jim McElreath driving it in 1964

[!!WALDO!!]

Driver- Tony Rolt
Year- 1963
Car- 1963 Kurtis - Novi
Track- Indianapolis

Finished 21st with Jim McElreath driving it in 1964

Wrong......

Wrong.....

Wrong year....Right otherwise

Told you that

Correct, burned a piston and was scored there.

This driver was the driver assigned to the car, not who ended up driving it.

McElreath was assigned to car #3, not #28.

[Bob Riebe]

'64 Novi Bobby Unser

[!!WALDO!!]

'64 Novi Bobby Unser

This car was a 1962 Kurtis-Novi and two were built. They both missed the 500 in 1962 with Dick Rathmann and Chuck Stevenson up. In 1963 the pictured car wore the number #56 and was second fastest at over 150MPH and sat in the middle of the front row with Jim Hurtubise. The other Kurtis from 1962 made the race with Bobby Unser and wore #6.

In 1964 Bobby was assigned the #28 car and Jim McElreath was assigned the #3 car as reflections on their finish in the 1963 points. Granatelli had a new car, a Ferguson 4WD car with a Vince and Joe Chassis and it was car #9 with no assigned driver.

As time went on Bobby moved to the #9, Jim to #28 and Art Malone to the #3. With Art running at the end of the race in 12th.

In 1965 Jim Hurtubise qualified the #28 car now number #59 and tore out the transmission on the first lap while passing about 8 cars.
He drove that car to a 4th at Atlanta in 1965, the last time the Novis would race in a race. Bud Tingelstad drove the other Kurtis that day also.

In 1966 Greg Weld had a state of the art Novi and his back up was this car. After tearing up the new car he attempted to get this car up to speed and bent it late on day 4 ending the Novis at Indy and placing them in the history books.

So Bob you are up.

[!!WALDO!!]

Since Bob hasn't put one up here is one.

It is a Bob'sGarage Special.

Tell us the History of this car if you can.

[Phoenixent]

Driver- Larry Rice
Year- 1978
Car- Lightning Mk1/77 - Offy
Track- Indianapolis

In 1977 was the #11 Linsey Hopkins car driven by Roger McCluskey. Also driven by Vern Schuppan at Texas in 1978 and by Larry Rice and Tim Richmond in 1979

[!!WALDO!!]

Driver- Larry Rice
Year- 1978
Car- Lightning Mk1/77 - Offy
Track- Indianapolis

In 1977 was the #11 Linsey Hopkins car driven by Roger McCluskey. Also driven by Vern Schuppan at Texas in 1978 and by Larry Rice and Tim Richmond in 1979


Very good, your up thank god.

[Phoenixent]

Drivers, Cars, Year, & Track

http://shutter11.pictures.aol.com/data/pictures/25/005/7F/E8/44/73/MA55k3j73cPjxf4WlBzVKsFlOkAN3Ass0300.jpg

[Chris R]

my opening stab in the dark:

1916
both cars are Peugeot
sheepshead Bay

#9 Ralph Mulford
#19 Dario Resta

[Phoenixent]

my opening stab in the dark:

1916
both cars are Peugeot
sheepshead Bay

#9 Ralph Mulford
#19 Dario Resta

You are correct Chris. :up:

Did you notice that Mulford is looking toward the inside of the turn. Must of been so felling looking down like that.

Your Turn.

[Chris R]

I was actually wondering if that was a posed picture - given the era and the lack of the forward lean I was thinking they might just be parked - both Mulford and his mechanic look pretty casual to be flying along the boards...

anyway- cool picture...

here is an easy one - I am not even going to hide the name - just thought it was a cool pic with the moon wheels and what not....

[!!WALDO!!]

I was actually wondering if that was a posed picture - given the era and the lack of the forward lean I was thinking they might just be parked - both Mulford and his mechanic look pretty casual to be flying along the boards...

anyway- cool picture...

here is an easy one - I am not even going to hide the name - just thought it was a cool pic with the moon wheels and what not....

Parnelli Jones

1964 OFFICIAL QUALIFYING PHOTO--IMS

1960 Watson-Offy.

Raced in 1960 by Lloyd Ruby and 1961-1964 by Parnelli Jones. Caught fire on lap 55 and was never raced again.

Johnny Poulson severed as crew chief on this car from 1961-1964.

Car won the 1963 500, the only race it ever won and was in model form from 1963-1970.

The car was built by Watson not a from plans car.

[Chris R]

Waldo has it - and then some ;) Its Ol' Calhoun - anybody know where the name came from??

So there were "factory" and "home built" Watsons?? I did not know that ...

Also, about one of the previous cars - the Lightning of the mid-70's - I know it was Hopkins car and it was designed by Roman Slobynsky (sp?) but who actually did the build etc.?? I did not really think that Hopkins was in the business of building cars in-house.....

Your turn Waldo!!!

[!!WALDO!!]

Waldo has it - and then some ;) Its Ol' Calhoun - anybody know where the name came from??

So there were "factory" and "home built" Watsons?? I did not know that ...

A.J. Watson built cars but worked for Bob Wilkie and Leader Card. Bob paid the bills. In 1960 he built 2 for themselves, and one that became the Ken-Paul Spl and one for Agajanian plus a few updates on 1959 cars. He was so busy he also sold plans to the car. Wayne Ewing bought one for Al Dean and that car got the Pole.

After getting beat at Indy by the Ken-Paul car, Wilkie requested that no more building of customer cars and only sell the plans only. Floyd Trevis bought 2 sets of plans, Denny Moore bought one and I believe there was one more. One of the Trevis cars was Foyt's and Ruby won the Milwaukee 200 in the Moore for John Zink. (Gurney passed his rookies test in it in 1962)

Wilkie then changed his mind as money was not as good for plans as it was for finished product. In 1962 Watson built 3 cars, two for the house and one for Bill Forbes. That car became the famous "money car" and finish 500 in 1962, 1963, 1964, 1965 with 4 different drivers. The other 2 cars finished 1-2 at the Speedway in 1962. Three sound cars.

He did the same basically in 1963 but built three house cars and one for the Ansted-Thompson team. It was for sale during most of the month of May but when Foyt's buddy Ebb Rose got bumped they qualified the car. It went the 500 miles.

In 1964 Watson switched to RE cars and the Foyt 1963 Watson, won PIR, won Trenton, won Indianapolis, won the Mays in Milwaukee and won the Trenton 150. It was raced one more time at the Trenton 200 and burned its clutch on the 77th lap. This was the first race it did not complete the scheduled distance and was put into the museum in May of 1965 as is.

Other 1963 Watsons survived and raced until 1966, one with a Ford qualified and got bumped in 1965 with Bob Grim at the wheel.
Three of the 1960 cars competed into 1965 with the Ewing being driven to a second at Atlanta by Mario and the Chapman car that was the second place finisher in 1960 racing in the 1962, 1963, 1964 and 1965 500 and scoring top 10s each year. The 1960 winner was in the 1961, 1962, 1963 and 1964 500s with it finishing one spot behind the Chapman car in 1964.



Also, about one of the previous cars - the Lightning of the mid-70's - I know it was Hopkins car and it was designed by Roman Slobynsky (sp?) but who actually did the build etc.?? I did not really think that Hopkins was in the business of building cars in-house.....

Lindsey Hopkins paid Roman's bills. (I believe Roman is FABCAR now?) Kind of like Gene White paying the bills for the ATLANTA effort.

[!!WALDO!!]

Two great drivers:

[Phoenixent]

Driver- Car #27 Johnny Rutherford and Car#92 Jim Clark
Year- 1963
Car- Car #27 Watson - Offy and Car#92 Lotus 29-Ford
Track- Milwaukee

[!!WALDO!!]

Driver- Car #27 Johnny Rutherford and Car#92 Jim Clark
Year- 1963
Car- Car #27 Watson - Offy and Car#92 Lotus 29-Ford
Track- Milwaukee


Right about Jimmy Clark but the #27 Dayton Steel Wheel car that day was handled by a 500 winner.

[Phoenixent]

Right about Jimmy Clark but the #27 Dayton Steel Wheel car that day was handled by a 500 winner.

Troy Ruttman

[beachbum]

Lindsey Hopkins paid Roman's bills. (I believe Roman is FABCAR now?) Kind of like Gene White paying the bills for the ATLANTA effort.
Roman Slobodydinskij (sometimes also spelled "Slobodinsky") designed the Shakee CAN-AM cars that were built by Fabcar in the early years of the company.

http://www.fabcar-usa.com/history1.html

[!!WALDO!!]

Troy Ruttman

Your turn, Go.

[Phoenixent]

Driver, Car, Year, & Track

http://shutter06.pictures.aol.com/data/pictures/25/002/5C/FD/2F/5E/iOt0HeIO70pivf4kvnqkYfRhXdTUb1PQ0190.jpg

[!!WALDO!!]

Takuya Kurosawa Lola-Ford Toronto Canada 2000

[Phoenixent]

Takuya Kurosawa Lola-Ford Toronto Canada 2000

Sorry WALDO. :(

Keep Digging

[dataman1]

How about:

Ross Bentley
Lola - Cosworth
1991
Vancouver

[Phoenixent]

How about:

Ross Bentley
Lola - Cosworth
1991
Vancouver

You are Correct. :up:

That's one driver you don't hear much about. Nice to see that someone else knows of him.

Your Turn

[ykiki]

Dang - beat me to it. I was actually there (my first trip to a CART race), and I was just in awe of the speed of the cars. I remember standing along the "straight" in front BC Place stadium and looking across the street as cars went by. You couldn't see them at all - you just heard their engines and felt the "whoosh", even while standing behind 2 rows of concrete barriers and fencing.

[!!WALDO!!]

You are Correct. :up:

That's one driver you don't hear much about. Nice to see that someone else knows of him.

Your Turn

It is nice you found a picture of a car 10 laps down.... :D

[dataman1]

This will be my first contribution to this thread. I need a sage to give me instructions on how to paste a picture into this box.

[BobGarage]

This will be my first contribution to this thread. I need a sage to give me instructions on how to paste a picture into this box.

two ways....

1st way. Click "Post Reply". Underneath the usual Reply to thread box is an "additional Options" section. Click "Manage Attachments". Then upload a file from your PC.

2nd way. If the picture is online somewhere and you know the url simply put in your reply [ img ]http://www.indycar.com/photo.jpg[/ img ] (without the spaces)

[dataman1]

Thanks to Chris R and BobGarage for the help with posting attachments.

Track
Chassis
Driver
Year


FYI, the guy at the back in white, orange and black firesuit with white helmet is me.

[BobGarage]

2003
Ryan Hunter-Reay
Reynard Ford-Cosworth

really have no idea on the track, so wild guess at Vancouver (although I suspect its wrong)

[dataman1]

Bob,

All correct except the Track. I thought the structure in the background would give it away.

Hint: The ICS races there on current schedule.

[garyshell]

Bob,

All correct except the Track. I thought the structure in the background would give it away.

Hint: The ICS races there on current schedule.

The track is Mid Ohio.

2003
Ryan Hunter-Reay
Reynard Ford-Cosworth

Gary

[dataman1]

The track is Mid Ohio.

2003
Ryan Hunter-Reay
Reynard Ford-Cosworth

Gary

You got it! Thanks for playing.

Your turn.

[garyshell]

Ok,

Two cars.

Provide the driver's names, year and location of the race.

Gary

[dataman1]

I'll take a guess,

Patrick Carpentier & Oriol Servia
2003
Miami (really a guess)

[Phoenixent]

Drivers- Car#20 Roberto Moreno and Car#33 Alex Tagliani
Year- 2000
Car- Car#20 Reynard 2Ki-Ford and Car#33 Reynard 2Ki-Ford
Track- Cleveland

[dataman1]

I don't have a clue, but if it was Miami, I think the pit boxes should be on driver's right.

You are right about pit boxes. I just went to You Tube and watched the highlight clip. Oh well, as i said (really a guess).

[garyshell]

Drivers- Car#20 Roberto Moreno and Car#33 Alex Tagliani
Year- 2000
Car- Car#20 Reynard 2Ki-Ford and Car#33 Reynard 2Ki-Ford
Track- Cleveland

All right except the track.

Gary

[Phoenixent]

Drivers- Car#20 Roberto Moreno and Car#33 Alex Tagliani
Year- 2000
Car- Car#20 Reynard 2Ki-Ford and Car#33 Reynard 2Ki-Ford
Track- Rio

[garyshell]

Drivers- Car#20 Roberto Moreno and Car#33 Alex Tagliani
Year- 2000
Car- Car#20 Reynard 2Ki-Ford and Car#33 Reynard 2Ki-Ford
Track- Rio


Sorry, I am out of town and check in much less often. I'll be back on schedule Tuesday. But in the mean time, no it isn't Rio.

Gary

[Phoenixent]

Drivers- Car#20 Roberto Moreno and Car#33 Alex Tagliani
Year- 2000
Car- Car#20 Reynard 2Ki-Ford and Car#33 Reynard 2Ki-Ford
Track- Chicago

[garyshell]

Drivers- Car#20 Roberto Moreno and Car#33 Alex Tagliani
Year- 2000
Car- Car#20 Reynard 2Ki-Ford and Car#33 Reynard 2Ki-Ford
Track- Chicago

<Ed McMahon voice mode on>

You are CORRECT, Sir!

<Ed McMahon voice mode off>

Gary

[Phoenixent]

Driver, Car, Year, & Track

http://shutter13.pictures.aol.com/data/pictures/11/008/77/FD/21/3F/SJCsHcAzkIH1TQxv9GxICrPcYFuEITUw0192.jpg

[Chris R]

Todd Gibson
Indy
1977
Eagle-Offy

[Chris R]

rest in peace to Todd Gibson's son Terry who died in a racing accident at Toledo Speedway this past week...

[Phoenixent]

Todd Gibson
Indy
1977
Eagle-Offy

You Are Correct.

Your Turn.

[Phoenixent]

Thoughts and Prayers go to Todd Gibson and Family on their lost.

Rest In Peace Terry Gibson.

[Chris R]

here's the latest. the usual please....

[Phoenixent]

Driver- Al Miller
Year- 1969
Car- Glen Bryant - Allison Turbine
Track- Indianapolis Motor Speedway

The car did not qualify.

[Chris R]

Phoenix has it!! the driver may also be Jim McElreath - can't really tell from the photo since it is so small - sorry about that.....

Definitely a true original as far as car design goes... Apparently the thing had two solid axles too...

Anyway - your turn.....

[Phoenixent]

Driver, Car, Year, & Track

http://shutter03.pictures.aol.com/data/pictures/21/007/33/EF/C7/48/KOQrcw1fZ413heo30tf7hN7IfsPaHpVf01C2.jpg

[SoCalPVguy]

Driver, Car, Year, & Track

http://shutter03.pictures.aol.com/data/pictures/21/007/33/EF/C7/48/KOQrcw1fZ413heo30tf7hN7IfsPaHpVf01C2.jpg

Wild guess: Jackie Stewart, Meacom Lola Ford, Riverside 1967

Alternate: Graham Hill, Meacom Lola Ford, Riverside 1966

I cannot see the helmet clearly, although it looks more like stewart than hill's patrician nose

[Phoenixent]

Wild guess: Jackie Stewart, Meacom Lola Ford, Riverside 1967

Hey SoCal

Correct on the Car, Track and Year. :up:

I wish I had a larger photo of this one. The Lola was a cool looking car back then.

[SoCalPVguy]

Hey SoCal

Correct on the Car, Track and Year. :up:

I wish I had a larger photo of this one. The Lola was a cool looking car back then.

Upon further reasearch, versus my memory, as I was there when I was in the 7th grade that year.... Driver: John Surtees.

What a field !!! F1 greats plus Indy regulars - Gurney Clark, Andretti, Foyt, Bucknum !!!

[Phoenixent]

Upon further reasearch, versus my memory, as I was there when I was in the 7th grade that year.... Driver: John Surtees.

What a field !!! F1 greats plus Indy regulars - Gurney Clark, Andretti, Foyt, Bucknum !!!

You are Correct SoCal. :up:

That was truly the Golden Era for Indy Car racing. I remember when my father took me to Ontario when it opened what an amazing time the cars and drivers all had their own unique personality. It is something that I will never forget.

Your Turn.

[SoCalPVguy]

2,200'th post of this thread:

http://transfers.mep-llc.com/files/name.that.car.5.JPG

[theblackflagger]

John Mahler
1977
Eagle Offy
Indianapolis

(If i'm right, been kinda voluntarly forced to learn racing history from working at my local road course!)

[SoCalPVguy]

John Mahler
1977
Eagle Offy
Indianapolis

(If i'm right, been kinda voluntarly forced to learn racing history from working at my local road course!)

Right location, keep digging on year, track and car.

[Alexamateo]

Swede Savage
Brabham-Offy
1972
Indy

[SoCalPVguy]

Swede Savage
Brabham-Offy
1972
Indy

Getting closer, as discussed, Indy is correct, now add that Swede Savage is also correct, as is 1972. However that is not the stated model car in the picture.

[Alexamateo]

Getting closer, as discussed, Indy is correct, now add that Swede Savage is also correct, as is 1972. However that is not the stated model car in the picture.

I see that the car is listed as an Eagle, but for the life of me, it just doesn't look like it. It looks like teammate Johnny Rutherford's Brabham with those brackets going foward like that. The data says it's an Eagle, but I am not 100% convinced. Anyone have any info on this?

[Alexamateo]

In retrospect, it is an '70 Eagle, I went to the Indy 500 web site and looked at the starting lineup photos, and can see that the body is different. It appears that the brackets holding the front wings are the Patrick teams way of modifying their cars.

[SoCalPVguy]

In retrospect, it is an '70 Eagle, I went to the Indy 500 web site and looked at the starting lineup photos, and can see that the body is different. It appears that the brackets holding the front wings are the Patrick teams way of modifying their cars.

That is not the car name quoted in the photo caption, Swede Savage did not qualify in this car, he was in the field in another car (your Eagle).

[Phoenixent]

That is not the car name quoted in the photo caption, Swede Savage did not qualify in this car, he was in the field in another car (your Eagle).

Did the caption say it was an Antares? Beacause that looks like the 70 Eagle with the new Antares inspired front wing Patrick Racing used on their cars.

[SoCalPVguy]

The caption on the photo says "Antares/Eagle" so to win the name that car contest the name "Antares" was required and you, Phoenix, have done that. So you are up next.


Link: http://swedesavage42.tripod.com/1972.html
"Swede sits in the #42 Antares/Eagle during practice early in May 1972. "

I think the car in the photo is the Antares described below that was not qualified.
If you look down that webpage further there is a picture of he Eagle that was qualified, it is similar but not exactly like the car in the photo.

I researched this car on Atlas F1 and found this...
"... Antares Manta. I've done a significant amountof research on these cars and what follows is a compilation from many involved with the cars. I actually own the #14 car that Roger McCluskey drove in the 1972 Indy 500 for Lindsay Hopkins, and the #42 car that Swede Savage tried to qualify that year shortly. History: The car was designed in late 71, early 72 for Pat Patrick and Lindsay Hopkins. It had a number of innovative features, some of which have been mentioned in previous posts(first F1/Indy car designed on a computer, first car fully instrumented/telemetry, first car to use composite/NASA materials, one of the first to utilize rudimentary forms of ground effects). The car featured a unique underwing at the rear of the car with a variety of vortex generators.....it worked....but created way to much drag and was abandoned....the car also featured unique water-oil coolers instead of the traditional air-oilcoolers. The original design featured a very unique rear suspension design that maintained constant camber through full wheel travel. McCluskey tried it but didn't like the way it felt and the team went back to the original design. Enough components were fabricated to build 5 cars. Of that only three were built in 1972. One for Roger McCluskey, one for his teammate Wally Dallenbach(Gilmore #10) and one for Patricks driver, Swede Savage. Limited pre-Indy testing took place with only one test at Ontario speedway. The chief mechanic for Roger M was Don Koda. After initial tests the front nose was redesigned. Lots of trouble with handling and overheating with the car ....McCluskey eventually got the car qualified and moved up into the top 5 with it before burning a valve and dropping out of the race. Dallenbach and Savage's cars got to Indy late and had limited development time and neither were able to put those cars in the show. With very public failure at Indy development stopped and the project was abandoned.
1972:

Chassis 1 McCluskey
Chassis 2 Dallenbach
Chassis 3 Savage

The official Indy results show Savage in an "Eagle". That Eagle was highly modified by using some parts of the Antares.

Next...

[Phoenixent]

Link: http://swedesavage42.tripod.com/1972.html
"Swede sits in the #42 Antares/Eagle during practice early in May 1972. "

I think the car in the photo is the Antares described below that was not qualified.
If you look down that webpage further there is a picture of he Eagle that was qualified, it is similar but not exactly like the car in the photo.

I researched this car on Atlas F1 and found this...
"... Antares Manta. I've done a significant amountof research on these cars and what follows is a compilation from many involved with the cars. I actually own the #14 car that Roger McCluskey drove in the 1972 Indy 500 for Lindsay Hopkins, and the #42 car that Swede Savage tried to qualify that year shortly. History: The car was designed in late 71, early 72 for Pat Patrick and Lindsay Hopkins. It had a number of innovative features, some of which have been mentioned in previous posts(first F1/Indy car designed on a computer, first car fully instrumented/telemetry, first car to use composite/NASA materials, one of the first to utilize rudimentary forms of ground effects). The car featured a unique underwing at the rear of the car with a variety of vortex generators.....it worked....but created way to much drag and was abandoned....the car also featured unique water-oil coolers instead of the traditional air-oilcoolers. The original design featured a very unique rear suspension design that maintained constant camber through full wheel travel. McCluskey tried it but didn't like the way it felt and the team went back to the original design. Enough components were fabricated to build 5 cars. Of that only three were built in 1972. One for Roger McCluskey, one for his teammate Wally Dallenbach(Gilmore #10) and one for Patricks driver, Swede Savage. Limited pre-Indy testing took place with only one test at Ontario speedway. The chief mechanic for Roger M was Don Koda. After initial tests the front nose was redesigned. Lots of trouble with handling and overheating with the car ....McCluskey eventually got the car qualified and moved up into the top 5 with it before burning a valve and dropping out of the race. Dallenbach and Savage's cars got to Indy late and had limited development time and neither were able to put those cars in the show. With very public failure at Indy development stopped and the project was abandoned.
1972:

Chassis 1 McCluskey
Chassis 2 Dallenbach
Chassis 3 Savage

The official Indy results show Savage in an "Eagle". That Eagle was highly modified by using some parts of the Antares.

Next...

Nice Site and research on the Antares. The cars came back on track as the Mantra in th late 70's with a redesigned front end. But they still did not have any luck with them.

Here is a photo of Swede's Antares.
http://shutter05.pictures.aol.com/data/pictures/20/008/75/D6/41/32/gUNERh0iaRt9q1EkuRx5Px+DpCpgqvOK01EE.jpg


Since I will be away I will pass this turn to Alexamateo. :)

[Phoenixent]

I'm Back and since it is still clear here is the next photo.

Driver, Car, Year, & Track

http://shutter05.pictures.aol.com/data/pictures/21/004/7B/BF/1E/37/an7Ko89+A1iJWHdUesHTt0pj2WrvjyJG01C6.jpg

[decartfan]

I've seen that car recently on a different photo. It is a 85C march cosworth, team is GF Racing, track is Elkhart and the year is 1988. However on my photo the driver is Jose Carlos Romano and he has a black and red helmet, so I'm not sure about the driver.

[Phoenixent]

I've seen that car recently on a different photo. It is a 85C march cosworth, team is GF Racing, track is Elkhart and the year is 1988. However on my photo the driver is Jose Carlos Romano and he has a black and red helmet, so I'm not sure about the driver.

Correct on the Car, Year and Track also the team. :up:

Keep Digging.

[Alexamateo]

Giupponi Franca
March 85C-Cosworth
Road America
1988

[Phoenixent]

Giupponi Franca
March 85C-Cosworth
Road America
1988

You are Correct AM. :up:

I have photos of both drivers testing that car in 1988. What an effort trying to compete with a 3 year old chassis when there was no freeze on development.

Your Turn.

[Alexamateo]

Driver, Car, Track, year

[decartfan]

Giupponi Franca
March 85C-Cosworth
Road America
1988

Was this at race weekend or test, I see no car number and other cars? For Jose Carlos Romano I have photos with number 25 and without number, too.

[Phoenixent]

Was this at race weekend or test, I see no car number and other cars? For Jose Carlos Romano I have photos with number 25 and without number, too.

This was a test Giupponi Franca at Elkhart Lake. I also have photos of Romano's car with 25 on the engine cover and nose.

[SoCalPVguy]

Driver, Car, Track, year

It is an 1973 STP Oil Treatment Spl., Lola chassis, Foyt Engine. It is either the twin to the #40 that Wally Dallenbach drove in '73 (a 'stellar' 33rd place) or the same car re-numbered elesewhere. There was no., #20 at Indy that year. It is not Dallebach as he has a light blue helmet, nor Johncock, also a blue helmet.

[Phoenixent]

Driver- Art Pollard
Year- 1973
Car- Lola T270 - Foyt
Track- Texas World Speedway

[Alexamateo]

Socal posted:

It is an 1973 STP Oil Treatment Spl., Lola chassis, Foyt Engine. It is either the twin to the #40 that Wally Dallenbach drove in '73 (a 'stellar' 33rd place) or the same car re-numbered elesewhere. There was no., #20 at Indy that year. It is not Dallebach as he has a light blue helmet, nor Johncock, also a blue helmet.


You were on the right track, but then Phoenix posted:

Driver- Art Pollard
Year- 1973
Car- Lola T270 - Foyt
Track- Texas World Speedway

before I could get back to you. That is the correct answer. 1972 was the year there was no #20 at Indy. Dallenbach qualified 33rd in the #40, and Johncock was driving the #24 McLaren. Johncock won Indy in the #20 STP Eagle in 1973.

[Phoenixent]

That was a cool photo of Art Pollard's car. He drove the 20 car in 1972 at Ontario, Trenton, and Phoenix. The last race for Art before Indy was Texas in 1973 then the number and sponsorship went to the Patrick team for Indy and Art Pollard went to Fletcher Racing. 1973 was a sad year for both teams. ;(

New Photo coming up.

[Phoenixent]

Drivers, Cars, Year, & Track

http://shutter04.pictures.aol.com/data/pictures/19/005/7F/F3/25/4F/TXdx9jmM8xZoffe9tD1joHQIZQlnwKQx022E.jpg

[Chris R]

year 1980
track Ontario (for the 500)
#66 Roger Rager Wildcat -Chevy
#34 Vern Schuppan McLaren-Cosworth

[Phoenixent]

year 1980
track Ontario (for the 500)
#66 Roger Rager Wildcat -Chevy
#34 Vern Schuppan McLaren-Cosworth

You are Correct Chris. :up:

Went to the spot were Turn Three use to be the other day and to my surprise part of the fence is still there. That was a Great track just built before it's time.

Your Turn.

[Chris R]

So what is where the speedway used to be now? is the fence part of anything or just standing in the middle of a field??

[Phoenixent]

So what is where the speedway used to be now? is the fence part of anything or just standing in the middle of a field??

Ther are office building and condos there. About 70 percent is covered by development. The fence is sitting in the middle of a lot. I am going out that way I will see if I can take a photo of it. To bad I can't find the remains of victory circle as the center was bricks from Indy.

[Chris R]

I would hope they saved the bricks.....

The usual please....

[Alexamateo]

Chuck Hulse
Ewing_Offy
1963 Indy

[Chris R]

....and a rare triple miss by Alex ;)

the track is right.....

keep digging....

[Alexamateo]

....and a rare triple miss by Alex ;)

the track is right.....

keep digging....

Whoops! :D

How about
AJ Foyt
Kuzma-Offy
1959

FOr the life of me I just didn't think it looked like Foyt at first glance. :p :

[Chris R]

A home run!! :D

you've got it... It is funny - in the original it is clearly Foyt - but the posted version just is not quite as clear....

Your turn....

[Alexamateo]

A home run!! :D

you've got it... It is funny - in the original it is clearly Foyt - but the posted version just is not quite as clear....

Your turn....

Yep, that coupled with the fact that there was another #10 Dean Van Lines car a couple of years later led to my mistake. In those days, you didn't keep your # from year to year.

[Phoenixent]

Driver- Al Unser
Year- 1979
Car- Chaparral - Cosworth
Track- Ontario Motor Speedway

[Alexamateo]

Phoenix has it! I knew it would be easy(although if someone jumped in with a Johnny Rutherford, I would not have been surprised.), but I thought it was just such a neat shot.

[Phoenixent]

Phoenix has it! I knew it would be easy(although if someone jumped in with a Johnny Rutherford, I would not have been surprised.), but I thought it was just such a neat shot.

Thanks AM :)

The Grandstands were the key to the photo on that one. I will have to make to go a photograph Turn 3 to post next week.

New Photo Coming Up.

[Phoenixent]

Driver, Car, Year, & Track

http://shutter01.pictures.aol.com/data/pictures/16/004/5F/BD/DF/02/bqZuDoDpPoBXKlkAiUWzQ1EvhHhm2oAj0190.jpg

[mlv]

Vow
It is Bill Finley built Eagle replica driven by Chuck Ciprich randomly in 1983 with stock-block Chevy power. Is it Pocono? Very rare image.