F1 testing in Spain

[driveace]

Hi guys,when is the testing starting in Spain ?And as i am in OZ can someone post some times and first impressions of their views on who looks to have the nicest,and fastest looking cars please

[GridGirl]

Google can be your friend ;)

[RS]

Schedule for next week announced. Only Caterham TBA, awaiting confirmation of Petrov signing?

Running order for Jerez F1 test revealed - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97309)

[steveaki13]

Interesting to see Mercedes are delaying their launch and using the first 3 days to evaluate tyres.

Also no test drivers featuring in this test, so we should hopefully get a better idea of guide line performance.

I just wish Sky F1 was up and running, then I could watch some testing action. As with the snow hanging around, I might have a free day Tuesday

[donKey jote]

I heard from a work colleague today that McLaren were also in Idiada for snow tests ;) :p

[RS]

I just wish Sky F1 was up and running, then I could watch some testing action. As with the snow hanging around, I might have a free day Tuesday

Yes, it would be great if next year they could televise the testing too.

[steveaki13]

Does anyone no if HRT are using an update 2011 car, with 2012 parts. Or just a pretty much 2011 car?

I know its early but so far after a couple of hours 7 out of 11 teams at the circuit have set times.

1 RaikkonenLotus 1m19.670s
RosbergMercedes 1m21.162s +1.492
Di RestaForce India 1m22.008s +2.338
KobayashiSauber 1m22.112s +2.442
RicciardoToro Rosso 1m22.270s +2.600
MassaFerrari 1m23.391s +3.721
De la RosaHRT 1m26.110s +6.440

[steveaki13]

Caterham, Mclaren, Williams & Red Bull yet to venture out for anything more than installation runs

[Mia 01]

It seems he is in better form than back in 2009.

@Lotus_F1Team (http://www.twitter.com/lotus_f1team): "That lap time from Kimi was set on medium compound tyres; it'll be interesting to see how he fares on the softer compounds!"

[RS]

Ok, early days but straight to the top of the times and with a big margin (and with a driver who is out of practice) surely shows the Lotus is pretty decent out of the box?

The way Autosport are reporting it, it sounds as if Raikkonen has some of his flair and enthusiasm back too.

[ArrowsFA1]

I just wish Sky F1 was up and running, then I could watch some testing action. As with the snow hanging around, I might have a free day Tuesday


As usual, lots of complaints about there being no video coverage of testing. Don't blame BBC, Sky or broadcasters, it's all down to FOMhttps://twitter.com/#!/f1fanatic_co_uk/status/166804210338365440

[N4D13]

Ok, early days but straight to the top of the times and with a big margin (and with a driver who is out of practice) surely shows the Lotus is pretty decent out of the box?

The way Autosport are reporting it, it sounds as if Raikkonen has some of his flair and enthusiasm back too.
Come on, it's the first day and no one has the slightest clue about fuel loads or how much drivers have pushed their cars. It would be rather pointless to try and draw any conclusions from the first hours of F1 testing in 2012.

[N4D13]

Come on, it's the first day and no one has the slightest clue about fuel loads or how much drivers have pushed their cars. It would be rather pointless to try and draw any conclusions from the first hours of F1 testing in 2012.
On second thoughts...


09:26 @eddstrawF1 (http://www.twitter.com/eddstrawf1) also enjoying Raikkonen's comeback so far: "had a watch trackside around the final part of the track. Great to see Kimi leaning on the car. Took a bite of the grass with his front-left entering the pits, so on it on an in-lap. Great to see him back in an F1 car."

[SGWilko]

Come on, it's the first day and no one has the slightest clue about fuel loads or how much drivers have pushed their cars. It would be rather pointless to try and draw any conclusions from the first hours of F1 testing in 2012.

With all this talk of Lotus being up for sale etc, I guess they need sponsorship. Oldest trick in the book is to go quick - i.e. not loadsa fuel.

Mind you, it could well be the car to beat, but I doubt it!!!!

[truefan72]

yes, yes. it must be said again

wish there was video!!! :(

[airshifter]

Come on, it's the first day and no one has the slightest clue about fuel loads or how much drivers have pushed their cars. It would be rather pointless to try and draw any conclusions from the first hours of F1 testing in 2012.

I've said time and time again that testing and practice can't be used as much of a judge of true performance. But that's what people do here on the forum, try to draw conclusions from testing with very little information other than a raw time! :)


I know thse times mean little if anything, but in the case of Kimi I can't help but remain hopeful that the car is capable enough for him to at least challenge the forward part of the field. A lot of people here on the forum don't seem to think he is much of a driver and I'd like to see Kimi prove them wrong once again. He didn't post that many fast laps by being an average driver.

I'll say it now and make it clear. Regardless of where he finishes this season I'm very excited to see Kimi back in F1.

[SGWilko]

I've said time and time again that testing and practice can't be used as much of a judge of true performance. But that's what people do here on the forum, try to draw conclusions from testing with very little information other than a raw time! :)


I know thse times mean little if anything, but in the case of Kimi I can't help but remain hopeful that the car is capable enough for him to at least challenge the forward part of the field. A lot of people here on the forum don't seem to think he is much of a driver and I'd like to see Kimi prove them wrong once again. He didn't post that many fast laps by being an average driver.

I'll say it now and make it clear. Regardless of where he finishes this season I'm very excited to see Kimi back in F1.

Some of Kimi's back to front of grid drives at McLaren were the stuff of heroes. I think Ferrari sucked the life out of him a bit.....

[Dave B]

With all this talk of Lotus being up for sale etc, I guess they need sponsorship. Oldest trick in the book is to go quick - i.e. not loadsa fuel.

Mind you, it could well be the car to beat, but I doubt it!!!!

Martin Whitmarsh said as much (http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2012/02/06/the-fluffy-time-of-year/) a few days ago, although obviously not talking about any team specifically:


Is there grandstanding and sandbagging? Yes. Do all of the teams do it? To varying degrees. We don’t go out of our way to grandstand, as we’ve got a long-term serious programme. We see it every year, a team that may be on the point of a new sponsorship deal appears to be very quick in some tests and then suddenly doesn’t look quite so quick, when it gets to the first race. It is so easy as the weight sensitivity of F1 cars is such that you can make a car artificially a second or two quicker if you need to.

[Dave B]

By the way, can I shamelessly plug the link in my signature (no money or advertising is involved)? I find it handy to have as a side window during sessions, and is quite handy during testing. :D

[Dave B]

Daniel Ricciardo has the dubious honour of causing the first red flag of 2012, stopping on Jerez's main straight. FWIW he is currently 4th fastest.

[jas123f1]

It seems he is in better form than back in 2009.

@Lotus_F1Team (http://www.twitter.com/lotus_f1team): "That lap time from Kimi was set on medium compound tyres; it'll be interesting to see how he fares on the softer compounds!" A bitt too early to tell how good he is - but in any way it's fun that he is back..

[steveaki13]

Kobayashi stopped on the back straight, a little while ok. The first few new season issues arising. Only 10 minutes left.

[Dave B]

Kobayashi stopped on the back straight, a little while ok. The first few new season issues arising. Only 10 minutes left.

It's suggested that he ran out of fuel as part of a planned test of the fuel system.

[steveaki13]

Oh fair enough

[Dave B]

Day one finished:



Pos Driver Team Time Laps
1 Raikkonen Lotus 1m19.670s 75
2 Di Resta Force India 1m19.772s +0.102 101
3 Rosberg Mercedes 1m20.219s +0.549 56
4 Webber Red Bull 1m20.496s +0.826 54
5 Ricciardo Toro Rosso 1m20.694s +1.024 57
6 Schumacher Mercedes 1m20.794s +1.124 42
7 Kobayashi Sauber 1m21.353s +1.683 106
8 Button McLaren 1m21.530s +1.860 62
9 Massa Ferrari 1m22.815s +3.145 69
10 Kovalainen Caterham 1m23.178s +3.508 28
11 Maldonado Williams 1m23.371s +3.701 25
12 De la Rosa HRT 1m23.676s +4.006 44

[steveaki13]

Sauber, Force India and Mercedes got in a good few laps today.

Interesting day

[Dave B]

Pos Driver Team Time Laps
1 Raikkonen Lotus 1m19.670s 75
2 Di Resta Force India 1m19.772s +0.102 101
3 Rosberg Mercedes 1m20.219s +0.549 56
4 Webber Red Bull 1m20.496s +0.826 54
5 Ricciardo Toro Rosso 1m20.694s +1.024 57
6 Schumacher Mercedes 1m20.794s +1.124 42
7 Kobayashi Sauber 1m21.353s +1.683 106
8 Button McLaren 1m21.530s +1.860 62
9 Massa Ferrari 1m22.815s +3.145 69
10 Kovalainen Caterham 1m23.178s +3.508 28
11 Maldonado Williams 1m23.371s +3.701 25
12 De la Rosa HRT 1m23.676s +4.006 44

[F1boat]

A fun day. I missed F1 and the first few tests are always very interesting with guessing this and that and being proven very wrong in Melbourne :D

[steveaki13]

Underway on Day Two in Jerez.

Kovalainen goes out early for the first run ever for Lotus now Caterham with KERS.

[steveaki13]

@MyCaterhamF1 (http://www.twitter.com/mycaterhamf1): "Today will be the first time we've ever run with KERS active on the car - another step forward for us!"

[driveace]

Paul di resta doing 101 laps ,hope he has a good season

[F1boat]

@MyCaterhamF1 (http://www.twitter.com/mycaterhamf1): "Today will be the first time we've ever run with KERS active on the car - another step forward for us!"

I really begin to worry for Williams F1... yesterday Tost said that STR will battle with Force India, Sauber and Catheram, who are now midfield team, according to him. But he didn't mention the once grand team of Sir Frank...

[F1Analyst]

Location: 4 miles north-east of Jerez de la Frontera, Andalucia, Spain
Length: 4.428 km (2.751 mi)
Turns : 13
Lap record : 1:23.135 by Heinz-Harald Frentzen, Williams, 1997
Last Race: 1997 Europian Grand Prix
Attraction: Senna curve

http://www.hondaproracing.com/images/circuit/large/rnd2_jerez.jpg

[steveaki13]

Schumacher is fastest thus far today.

1:18:561

Good time.

and Di Resta 287.2 KMPH on the back straight, so FI have lost none of their straight line speed then.

[Wasted Talent]

Schumacher is fastest thus far today.

1:18:561

Good time.

and Di Resta 287.2 KMPH on the back straight, so FI have lost none of their straight line speed then.

Wasn't Webber supposed to have been over 300 kmh yesterday?

WT

[F1Analyst]

Day 2 is ON now. At present Michael Schumacher quickest with 1.18.561. Good Luck

[F1Analyst]

Force India is on a really aggressive test. Both days they have done more than 100 laps!
Do you think KERS are ON for them?

[The Black Knight]

Force India is on a really aggressive test. Both days they have done more than 100 laps!
Do you think KERS are ON for them?

I'd imagine all teams are being aggressive with their test programmes.

[jens]

I think I will make first conclusions after the first set of tests (7-10 Feb). At that time usually first analysis of insiders and observers starts coming out as well, which include long-run pace and also the drivability and other characteristics of each car.

[Mia 01]

I´m a bit worried about ferrari at the moment and to a lesser state MacLaren, but it´s early days yet.

[pino]

I´m a bit worried about ferrari at the moment and to a lesser state MacLaren, but it´s early days yet.

Are you a Ferrari, McLaren or Kimi fan ? :crazy: :p :

[airshifter]

Are you a Ferrari, McLaren or Kimi fan ? :crazy: :p :

Not sure about Mia, but I consider myself a fan of all three. :)



Some more testing times:

1. Michael Schumacher, Mercedes GP, 1 minute, 18.561 seconds, 132 laps

2. Mark Webber, Red Bull Racing-Renault, 1:19.184, +0.623, 97

3. Daniel Ricciardo, Scuderia Toro Rosso-Ferrari, 1:19.587, +1.026, 100

4. Jules Bianchi, Force India-Mercedes, 1:20.221, +1.660, 46

5. Kimi Räikkönen, Lotus-Renault, 1:20.239, +1.678, 117

6. Paul Di Resta, Force India-Mercedes, 1:20.272, +1.711, 69

7. Felipe Massa, Ferrari, 1:20.454, +1.893, 95

8. Jenson Button, McLaren-Mercedes, 1:20.688, +2.127, 85

9. Sergio Pérez, Sauber-Ferrari, 1:20.711, +2.150, 68

10. Pastor Maldonado, Williams-Renault, 1:21.197, +2.636, 97

11. Heikki Kovalainen, Caterham-Renault, 1:21.518, +2.957, 139

12. Pedro de la Rosa, HRT-Cosworth, 1:22.128, +3.567, 64

Schumacher was in last years car, so Webber was the fastest of the new cars. Kimi had a slight off and some damage but still did 117 laps. Check the source for other info and who was driving current cars.

Formula One: Michael Schumacher fastest on day two of Jerez test - Autoweek (http://www.autoweek.com/article/20120208/F1/120209872)

[Koz]

... Shoe is fastest... But according to something I read it appears be is driving the 2011 car?
Can someone please confirm this?
(I'm on a phone, with no 3G)

[driveace]

Think that the Ferrari,s and the McLarens are sandbagging a little,but they need to keep an eye on the Bulls,and hope we dont have a runaway faster car,OR the racing could be boring again this year

[steveaki13]

... Shoe is fastest... But according to something I read it appears be is driving the 2011 car?
Can someone please confirm this?
(I'm on a phone, with no 3G)

Mercedes are running their 2011 car with updates I assume, as are HRT as they are struggling to get their new car ready.


Day Three is now under way, giving Lewis, Fernando and Sebastian a first drive in their new challengers.

[steveaki13]

First install laps going on and its only 0.3 C air temp, and 1.1 C track temp. A bit chilly

[F1boat]

Ferrari seem to be in trouble. Oh, crap.

[SGWilko]

Don't write them off yet. They have a lot of data to gather given the pull-rod front suspension and the fact they have been a lot less conservative with their design this year.

Also, the more data you can acquire on all the different variables for setup, the more accurate you can be throughout the season in bringing updates to the car. SO rather than banging out fast laps, they are no doubt concentrating on controlled speed/downforce tests etc.

You can imagine the McLaren will have more sensors on it than a mother giving birth using only a TENS machine for pain relief!!!

[Jefe Máximo]

Schumacher's driving the 2011 car, so the lap times are a bit deceiving.

The Ferrari engine seems to be doing ok in the Torro Rosso. :s

[Garry Walker]

Ferrari in trouble according AMuS. I wouldn't mind.

In other news, read what this usFAILURE1 team boss and utter retard Peter "dumb dumb" Windsor is saying about the tests so far.

Notes from Jerez testing « peterwindsor.com (http://peterwindsor.com/2012/02/08/notes-from-jerez-testing/)


Relative to the Michael of 2010/11, however, this was an altogether different driver. He braked to a point on the left of the road, still with the car at perhaps 15 deg from “straight and parallel”, then nudged the Mercedes into the right-hander, downshifting against increasing steering load.

Mark Webber also looked sharp and very quick, although out of the last corner, and towards Turn One, he began his diagonal perhaps 50 metres earlier than Michael (as is Mark’s regular style). Perhaps 200rpm go missing here. Slightly too-early throttle application against abrupt steering load also gave him quite a lot of mid-corner understeer in the middle of One, but, into Two, a downhill, right-hand hairpin, Mark was faultless.

Kimi looked great in all the slow corners, even if he twice missed his braking point into the chicane just before day’s end. All the old Kimi was on show – the great use of a decreasing brake pedal pressure against steering load, the exquisite feel for the right moment to load-up the car with steering. He was almost in Michael’s wheeltracks on the stretch from the last corner into Turn One – almost but not quite. Kimi’s E20 was straight as it crossed the timing line but he began his diagonal to the outside perhaps 20m earlier than Michael. Maybe 50rpm lost here. Out at Turn Five – the daunting, fourth-gear corner – Kimi was a tad disappointing, frequently leading the car in from a point about a metre later than Michael or Mark and thus effectively running out of road mid-corner. I’m sure he was saying afterwards that the car suffers here from understeer but to my eye his initial manipulations were not helping the problem.

LOL!!!!

I just love how he describes the driving style of drivers, yet he himself obviously has no understanding of racing whatsoever.

[N4D13]

Ferrari in trouble according AMuS. I wouldn't mind.
Whom? Sorry, I don't know! :(

[Garry Walker]

Ferrari in trouble according AMuS. I wouldn't mind.[/url]
Whom? Sorry, I don't know! :(

Auto Motor und Sport. A german paper, very reliable usually. They usually have loads of stories not told by english speaking press.
If you speak german, read their webpage, it is worth it.

[N4D13]

Auto Motor und Sport. A german paper, very reliable usually. They usually have loads of stories not told by english speaking press.
If you speak german, read their webpage, it is worth it.
Thanks a lot! I don't speak any German at all, but I'll try Google Translator. :p

[Garry Walker]

Ferrari have confirmed they are not happy with the new car.

[jens]

Well, this is certainly true that as Ferrari's car is completely new, it takes more time to understand it properly and unlock its potential. On the other hand cars, which are evolutionary, can be working well immediately, but without as much development potential. We have seen it with Ferrari itself in previous seasons - they have always been more impressive in winter testing than in actual season. Now it is the other way around.

But also it shall not be overlooked that they have some catch-up to do. Being fast straight out of the box has proven important throughout the years. It is not impossible to improve and make an impressive comeback. Also Alonso-Ferrari did it in 2010, after they seemed out of the title fight after mid-season. But it is a huge challenge. Basically Ferrari needs smooth and flawless development cycles from now on.

Both BMW in 2008 and McLaren in 2011 had problems in testing, but managed to overcome them. In 2007 Honda was in trouble straightaway and never recovered. Also some serious issues may not be discovered yet with the first week of testing. I remember in 2009 McLaren's problems started becoming evident only in mid-February. Then again it was also a unique year and nobody was sure, where they were standing.

[Koz]

Now Rosberg is testing the 2011 car? Wtf?
Is their new car not ready?

Every publication I have read says 2011-spec so is it an evolution of last year's car or are they having massive issues with the new car that they can't even test it?
With no in-season testing this seems either suicidal or a complete disaster...

[SGWilko]

Now Rosberg is testing the 2011 car? Wtf?
Is their new car not ready?

Every publication I have read says 2011-spec so is it an evolution of last year's car or are they having massive issues with the new car that they can't even test it?
With no in-season testing this seems either suicidal or a complete disaster...

Mercedes have, for some time, clearly stated it is their intention to have the new car ready for the 2nd test, giving them asa much development time as possible. Also, they struggled with the tyres, so they are at the first test with the old car purely to evaluate the new for 2012 tyres.

[aryan]

Every publication I have read says 2011-spec so is it an evolution of last year's car or are they having massive issues with the new car that they can't even test it?


Merc had always intended to do the first test in their 2011 car to better evaluate the new tyres with a car that they already know.

It also gives them more time to develop the 2012 car in the wind tunnel etc.

We'll see if this plan will work, but it's always been their plan.

[aryan]

As for times, don't read anything into them people. This is the first test and teams will be making sure that all the systems are working at expected, and that the data they are getting from their car corroborates with what their simulators told them.

Having said that Ferrari doesn't look to be in too good a shape (based on what we are hearing from the team). Who knows, this is a new car and they might sort it out and find a way to unleash its potential... but there's also always a chance that they might not.

[odykas]

Solid performance by MS :cool:

[jens]

So the first phase of tests at Jerez is over. Based on comments I have read so far the current Top3 arguably consists of Red Bull, McLaren and Lotus! Ferrari is a question-mark. It is very difficult to rate midfield, because many teams have managed to leave some impression there.

The Lotus situation is interesting. Basically they started out in a similar fashion a year ago. Renault-Kubica were immediately at the front in the first tests and were viewed as a genuine threat to top teams. Later in the beginning of the season they indeed got two podiums with different drivers. So let's see, how well can Lotus keep up development this year and how wide is the performance window of this car across different circuits. From that point of view Barcelona testing can tell us something more as it puts more emphasis on aerodynamic grip than Jerez.

The situation of Ferrari can be considered intriguing as well. But whatever it is, from the winning point of view it should be noted that if you want to beat a team like Red Bull, it is basically needed to perform flawlessly and you can't afford setbacks. So they have made their life difficult.

[mstillhere]

I agree with you in terms of not to give too much importance to the times. Every team is running their tests and their set ups. Therefore it would be pointless to give any credit to any of the news coming from Jerez. Even the various mechanical gliches are welcome....for now.

However, IMO it's a little premature to think that Ferrari are in trouble......or not I know that's what Fry said the other day about this car but there are stil lplenty of tests to go and plenty of set ups to come to say anything either in favor or against this car at this point.

[ArrowsFA1]

I think the fact that Barrichello's Williams was fastest of all this time last year says all we need to know about testing times at Jerez this week :D

[N4D13]

I agree with you in terms of not to give too much importance to the times. Every team is running their tests and their set ups. Therefore it would be pointless to give any credit to any of the news coming from Jerez. Even the various mechanical gliches are welcome....for now.

However, IMO it's a little premature to think that Ferrari are in trouble......or not I know that's what Fry said the other day about this car but there are stil lplenty of tests to go and plenty of set ups to come to say anything either in favor or against this car at this point.
Exactly. The fact that Fry wasn't, in his own words, satisfied doesn't necessarily mean that the car is bad. It's just that they have a completely new car and they need to understand it. They need to take their time to analyze all the data they've gathered and find out how this car works and how they should adjust their setups. So it's not a surprise that the car isn't quite fast on day one - it's only testing and it's their first chance to actually try it.

You can expect an improvement on Ferrari's form on the Barcelona test, as they are just beginning to understand how to exploit the car's potential. Now, whether the car is going to be a winner or not, we won't find until they get to Oz. But it would be a massive surprise for anyone if the car isn't at least a front runner like last year's.

[jas123f1]

That's right, the lap times are not important right now - what is important is what the drivers are saying about their feeling for the car and as a Kimi fan it is fun to note that Lotus drivers seems to be satisfied with the car .. so far ... :)

[wedge]

Early days, data gathering and wanting to understand their cars; and for the likes of Kimi getting up to speed and exploring the limits.

I'm sure most people are in the same boat as Lewis:


"The downforce on the rear for instance, is not as good through the high-speed corners as it was last year, but I'm sure we'll get that back."

BBC - Andrew Benson: F1 pre-season testing provides poor guide to form (http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/andrewbenson/2012/02/f1_pre-season_testing_provides.html)

Despite a few niggles here and there RBR are definitely sandbagging.


Although RBR have not gone for an eye catching time this week Vettel did use a set of new soft tyres on the final day, but his best time in a seven lap run on them was a 1m 19.7s, which indicates that he had a fair bit of fuel on board. His next run was on a set of used medium tyres and he did a 1m 19.6s straight off and then a sequence as follows – 1:28.1; 1:21.1; 1:21.5; 1:21.5; 1:21.7; 1:21.5; 1:21.7.

Looking for clues from Jerez testJames Allen on F1 (http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2012/02/looking-for-clues-from-jerez-test/)



However, IMO it's a little premature to think that Ferrari are in trouble......or not I know that's what Fry said the other day about this car but there are stil lplenty of tests to go and plenty of set ups to come to say anything either in favor or against this car at this point.

If I was a tifosi I would be seriously worried:


The car, they said, was behaving inconsistently in the corners, and so far fixing its behaviour at one stage - the entry, say - messes it up at either the mid-corner or exit, or both.

"That time (Alonso's fastest lap) was on soft tyres," a source close to the team said. "It was not so special. The feeling is they are waiting for a lot from this car - but they don't know how to get it. It is impossible to say what will be the future."

BBC - Andrew Benson: F1 pre-season testing provides poor guide to form (http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/andrewbenson/2012/02/f1_pre-season_testing_provides.html)

[mstillhere]

As a tifoso I have no interest in seeing Ferrari first during the testing season. I clearly remember what an incredibly positive session we had last year during the tests and then during the champioship we all know how it went.

At the same time last year RB was a little behind in terms of testing (like Mercedes this year) and then they started arriving first when it really mattered.

So, as far as I am concerned I'll wait for Melbourne if not even Barcelona before startiing making claims one way or the other.

[Tazio]

I'm waiting until the Saturday morning before Oz to say with any authority the relative speed of the field. Than after the race I can see how terribly wrong I was :s mokin:

[wedge]

At the same time last year RB was a little behind in terms of testing (like Mercedes this year) and then they started arriving first when it really mattered.


Really?

RBR were methodical (as per usual).

2011 FebruaryJames Allen on F1 (http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2011/02/)

Coming off the first tests and struggling for baselines to work with is very worrying. The next tests are at Barcelona - the greatest test on an F1 car during pre-season.

For sure there have been quick cars that were difficult to understand and set up eg. McLaren 2005 & Sauber 2008 but if you're fighting for WDC then I'd want a quick and reliable car straight out of the box.

History shows you that it is a hindrance as well as difficult when you're on the backfoot and coming from behind.

[mstillhere]

Again, Ferrari's car represents a breakaway from previous Ferrari cars. The negative is that the team has to learn all its potential the good is that the car has potentially a greater amount of growth and developement compared to the other F1 cars.

Also let's not forget that the amount of testing available to the F1 teams is lower than it was last year (3 Vs. 4) and abviously way lower than it was 7 years ago. Should we also take in consideration that Ferrrari couldn't test their car in Italy because of the snow? Ferrari has little choice but to take advantage of the chance of testing as much as possible right now. And I bet any money that what you are seeing right now on the track is remotely close to what you'll see in Australia.

Anyhow, anyone is free to interpret the various testing results they way they want to. You stated yours and I stated mine. Only time will tell who was right.

[Tazio]

Some interesting comments from Alonso in regard to testing the F2012:

Fernando Alonso says he has already seen positive signs from the new F2012 that it is able to generate heat into its tyres more quickly than was the case with its predecessor – a key aim for the team this year.
Alonso sees early signs of Ferrari tyre warm-up breakthroughJames Allen on F1 (http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2012/02/alonso-sees-early-signs-of-tyre-warm-up-breakthrough/)

Alonso has a reputation of telling it like it honestly is when talking about his cars characteristics.
Further on in the article he does say reliability and aerodynamics are issues that need to be sorted out.


"I think we’ve managed to get more out of the tyres right from the first lap, which is something we weren’t able to do last year. What definitely needs improving is the aerodynamics and the reliability"
Write Ferrari off at your own peril!

[Koz]

Well, well, well. Look what the cat dragged in.

Welcome back Mr Alcatraz.

[Tazio]

Thanks Koz
:s ailor: I guess they will let anyfreakin'body on this forum. ;)

[The Black Knight]

I think it might take Ferrari a race or two to come to life but I do feel they will be championship contenders this year. The new Red Bull is looking sweet. I think they will also be championship contenders. The McLaren I'm not so convinced about yet. In all probability we haven't seen too much from the McLaren boys yet and they seem to be concentrating on high fuel runs. I'm not convinced, based on current testing and comments from Lewis that it is a massive improvement over last years car. Time will tell.

[Tazio]

I think it might take Ferrari a race or two to come to life but I do feel they will be championship contenders this year. The new Red Bull is looking sweet. I think they will also be championship contenders. The McLaren I'm not so convinced about yet. In all probability we haven't seen too much from the McLaren boys yet and they seem to be concentrating on high fuel runs. I'm not convinced, based on current testing and comments from Lewis that it is a massive improvement over last years car. Time will tell.
Excellent observations! :up:

http://thumbnails46.imagebam.com/17433/f28b4d174325034.jpg

I think that among other things, Ferrari are trying to come up with a solution of blowing their Beam Wing with the proper exhaust configuration without burning the rear components off. That is probably one of the aero issues Alonso was referring to. In the following image you can see they are really protecting the lower part of the rear wing supports inside and out with some extra (temporary) heat resistant material.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7040/6855616967_14aa5e90d5_z.jpg

BTW does anyone want to take a stab at what that small tube in the first image leading to just under the beam wing that I put an arrow at is for?

[SGWilko]

BTW does anyone want to take a stab at what that small tube in the first image leading to just under the beam wing that I put an arrow at is for?

I'd guess at the exhaust air exit from the intake just below the airbox inlet. From your final pic, it looks to exit just under the rainlight

[wedge]

I think it might take Ferrari a race or two to come to life but I do feel they will be championship contenders this year.

Oh I agree but winning is one thing and being a contender is another.

Vettel/Newey/RBR are the guys to beat so to win WDC you have to get the ball rolling with race wins.

Cars are so reliable these days that Id rather be hunted than the hunter - that's why Alonso is a double WDC. When a car loses outright pace Alonso has the calibre to keep the momentum and fight for podiums and even Button scraped by in 2009 with IMO questionable performances when the going got tough.


I think that among other things, Ferrari are trying to come up with a solution of blowing their Beam Wing with the proper exhaust configuration without burning the rear components off. That is probably one of the aero issues Alonso was referring to.

No, its data correlation ie. simulation data vs. real data.



BTW does anyone want to take a stab at what that small tube in the first image leading to just under the beam wing that I put an arrow at is for?

It's not a tube, its part of the monocoque. It looks like a tube because of light reflection.

[jens]

I think it is a bit optimistic to say that Ferrari will be a title contender at this stage. Better just wait and see. I think you shall not take for granted that this car has a huge development potential. It may have, but on the other hand it may hit a ceiling and not get anywhere either. Like Renault with its radical car in 2011, which they were unable to develop. And besides all, in order to beat Red Bull you need a brilliant racing car, not just a "fine" one. A fine one would be enough for 3rd in WCC like Ferrari has achieved in the past two seasons. And I think it is reasonably to expect such outcome now as well.

[Tazio]

No, its data correlation ie. simulation data vs. real data.

Yes that is their major aero issue. I was getting a little carried away with the blown beam wing issue.
I pulled this off of twitter, its translated from Spanish so it's a little disjointed. I don't know if, or how much of an insider he is so I have definately taken it with a rather large pinch of salt:


joseluisf1:

"Telemetry test indicated that the F2012 lost downforce in curves inexplicably, lost balance and traction"
"These sudden loss of downforce were random, as this not occurred in the same part of the same curve"
"During a pit stop to solve a problem of reliability, Alonso and Fry spoke in depth about this strange behaviour"
"Apparently, during the conversation to Fry 'is turned on the light', I call Tombazis and began to make some laps"
"They've "armed" the car with 'aerodynamic markers' and were looking back to back flow and suspicions from Fry seemed to be confirmed"
"In Maranello confirmed the cause: several pieces of 'material progress' yielded to the pressure and the flow was diverted improperly"
"That was the reason that the problems were not detected in the tunnel, parts of the model did not have that problem"
"In production are sleepless in order to investigate why those pieces behaved so, failure to manufacture and / or misscalculation?"

[ioan]

Looks like Ferrari got the flexing bits wrong again.

[DexDexter]

I think it is a bit optimistic to say that Ferrari will be a title contender at this stage. Better just wait and see. I think you shall not take for granted that this car has a huge development potential. It may have, but on the other hand it may hit a ceiling and not get anywhere either. Like Renault with its radical car in 2011, which they were unable to develop. And besides all, in order to beat Red Bull you need a brilliant racing car, not just a "fine" one. A fine one would be enough for 3rd in WCC like Ferrari has achieved in the past two seasons. And I think it is reasonably to expect such outcome now as well.

I agree. Adrian Newey still designs the Red Bull cars and Ferrari's technical line-up isn't massively better than in the previous couple of years. Logically, they are not suddenly going to see the light if they haven't in the past. I expect Red Bull to be fastest with Mclaren improving as the season goes on.

[mstillhere]

Well, I actually think tha is perfectly normal for a brand new car to have issues. It would be surpring if it did not.

What I perceive instead troublesome is seeing a RB wich is an upgrade from last year car suffering so many failures. If anything their car is supposed to be testing without any problems. Not Ferrari. As Newey said himeself this car was designed around the exaust system. Well that's now gone. So their "new" car is not going to be a second faster than everyone else like last year.

As far as McLAren is concerned, I am not the only wondering if their decision to be the only team in not changing their nose is in fact a good decision. I predict McLaren would be changing their nose either in Australia or soon after.

Also I see not much mention about Mercedes. I wonder if they have a surprise they want to show the competition as late as possible. Renault and Kimi could also surprise a lot of people as well.

[mstillhere]

Of course if they would be the only ones who got it right then they would have all the reasons to be very proud of it and with reason. But for some reason, I don't know, it does not seem right. They are taking a big chance with their "originality". Assuming they got it wrong, I wonder how long would take them to replace it. It should not take long to see that actually.

[wedge]

What I perceive instead troublesome is seeing a RB wich is an upgrade from last year car suffering so many failures. If anything their car is supposed to be testing without any problems. Not Ferrari. As Newey said himeself this car was designed around the exaust system. Well that's now gone. So their "new" car is not going to be a second faster than everyone else like last year.

RBR problems are what expected for testing but Alonso's assessment that Ferrari understand "20%" of their car is not a nice figure and is very worrying. It is a hindrance that compromises the WDC fight.

We've seen McLaren in the past scratching their heads with rear downforce: data correlation, data gathering, trying to understand the data and come up with the correct solutions. This leaves you falling behind because rivals will be focusing more on performance whilst you're stuck on square 1.


I think it is a bit optimistic to say that Ferrari will be a title contender at this stage. Better just wait and see. I think you shall not take for granted that this car has a huge development potential. It may have, but on the other hand it may hit a ceiling and not get anywhere either. Like Renault with its radical car in 2011, which they were unable to develop. And besides all, in order to beat Red Bull you need a brilliant racing car, not just a "fine" one. A fine one would be enough for 3rd in WCC like Ferrari has achieved in the past two seasons. And I think it is reasonably to expect such outcome now as well.

Though I made a brutal assessment there is still hope. McLaren drivers will take points off each other; if Webber can step up and make a good fight with Vettel again then all Alonso have to do is not replicate 2010 and over drive the car - but then what of Massa....

[The Black Knight]

Massa has lost it and won't be a title contender this year or ever.

I'm going to Barcelona on Tuesday for the first day of the second test. I can't wait to hear F1 engines roar in anger again.

[Tazio]

Along with Autosport live commentary, I like to view this coverage for analyzing stints (t&d) during the practice live, and it is left up until the next session for analysis, trollers, and even fanbois. This is what the last test ended up looking like, and will change tomorrow.
Timing: 10 february, friday. Circuit of Jerez, Spain. (http://f1tests.co.cc/2012.php)
It accounts for every minute so don’t be surprised if it seems like they are not counting the stints correctly.

[Tazio]

Massa has lost it Bold words! You don't know that bro. :monkeedan

[Knock-on]

Phew.... Top 3 will be McLaren, Ferrari and Adrian Newey :)

Ferrari may be slightly ahead of where I thought they would be. Possibly they will be the ones on the pace come the first race.

Macca's are in a better state than last year but don't have that element of raw speed it seems. This is becoming a bit of a habit with them starting the season behind the curve and by the time they get up to speed, the championship's won. I just hope they're a bit more on it from the start this year.

As for Red Bull, I'm not too sure I agree with Wedge that they are sandbagging. I think that rather than flexing wings, they were employing a type of active suspension thet FI tried to emulate. Has the mockers now been put on this by the FIA? If so, they might be back on a level playing field and struggling to regain the intuitive.

[Tazio]

Well stated Knockie! Alonso just put in a decent 10 lap stint. It's sometimes hard to judge his times becaus he always is trying to setup s1 when their is a little traffic! Plus Lotus hasn't run a lap in about an hour and fifteen minutes.

Alonso stint :

1:24.100 (15)
1:24.894 (16)
1:25.257 (17)
1:25.209 (18)
1:25.983 (19)
1:27.744 (20)
1:25.444 (21)
1:25.295 (22)
1:27.568 (23)

[Robinho]

Lotus have given up for the day, they were using their second chassis, but found a problem and sent it back to Enstone. Presumabley they are bringing in the 1st chassis now so they can run the rest of the week still

[Tazio]

Hamilton, and Riccardo were the only ones near the top to set best time before lunch on softs, or so autosport says.

[jens]

Only first day of testing at Barcelona, but we have got major news already. Lotus has a fundamental chassis issue and has withdrawn from the whole Barcelona testing this week! :eek:

Reminds me a bit of Williams from 2011, when they were shining in testing, but before the first race realized they had to fix a major design flaw - floor was too low, they needed to rise it, but as a result became slow...

And a deja vu to Lotus from 2011 - they were shining at the first tests before losing Kubica, now they were shining before losing chassis...

[SGWilko]

Very positive signs from McLaren and doubts from Vettel regarding grip and pace compared to rivals. We shall see if this is sandbagging or indeed the Red Bull dominance is finally over. The next few days will be interesting to watch. :)

More sandbags in the RB camp than Boscastle in the wet season.......

[Garry Walker]

Well stated Knockie! Alonso just put in a decent 10 lap stint. It's sometimes hard to judge his times becaus he always is trying to setup s1 when their is a little traffic! Plus Lotus hasn't run a lap in about an hour and fifteen minutes.

Alonso stint :

1:24.100 (15)
1:24.894 (16)
1:25.257 (17)
1:25.209 (18)
1:25.983 (19)
1:27.744 (20)
1:25.444 (21)
1:25.295 (22)
1:27.568 (23)

Schumacher had a better stint than that. So don't count out Mercedes yet :D

[SGWilko]

Only first day of testing at Barcelona, but we have got major news already. Lotus has a fundamental chassis issue and has withdrawn from the whole Barcelona testing this week! :eek:

Oh well. Better keep the ice cream freezer well stocked...........!

Just goes to show that what happens in the tunnel does not fully recreate what happens on the track.

[Tazio]

Schumacher had a better stint than that. So don't count out Mercedes yet :D
Seriously I wouldn’t count them out. We know the least about them of all the teams. Ferrari didn't do anything except continue on with a regimented test. As for what I do know. Mercedes is in the same boat only earlier along with their data gathering. Today they had at least two issues, but it is to be expected.
1) They missed time early because of a hydraulic leak,
2) I don't think that burned bodywork is part of the livery

http://i.imgur.com/Uofqb.jpg

Excuse me for saying Ferrari had a decent stint :p :

[AndyL]

Very positive signs from McLaren and doubts from Vettel regarding grip and pace compared to rivals. We shall see if this is sandbagging or indeed the Red Bull dominance is finally over.

If your interpretation is correct then someone needs to adjust their sand bags, because Red Bull have ended up faster than McLaren in every day of testing so far! :)

[Tazio]

If your interpretation is correct then someone needs to adjust their sand bags, because Red Bull have ended up faster than McLaren in every day of testing so far! :) Sebs 122.8 was on soft compound Autosport first said it was on mediums.

[N4D13]

One question - who will be driving on Thursday and Friday? I haven't found it anywhere, although it mustn't be really that hard to find.

[Tazio]

Vettel gets the best of Hamilton in the "dueling" race simulations:

Timing: 22 february, wednesday. Catalunya, Spain. (http://f1tests.co.cc/2012.php)

[mstillhere]

It looks like Alonso is not completely happy with car. On the positive side the car is finally able to bring the tiers to temperature very quickly. And this was a major issue in the past years. For the bad news, Alonso complains about a certain lack of grip of the car when exiting corners. Curiously enough Vettel also was mentioning the same issue with his car.

[Tazio]

Just look at every stint how quickly the tires fall off as suggested by discernibly slower lap times during the stints duration, and the disparity between each lap is unacceptable. It is not unmanageable and it is only egregious on the fronts or so I have heard.

Timing: 22 february, wednesday. Catalunya, Spain. (http://f1tests.co.cc/2012.php)
I think this is something they will be able to fine tune, and dial out without sacrificing race pace. I hope
On the flip side Ferrari should be a good prime tire car, and who knows, they may be able to avoid their biggest shortcoming of last season, which is being road-kill in the last stint at the end of the race when they have to run hard compounds.

[Tazio]

Feb.23 (GMM)
Embattled Lotus will ask its formula one rivals for permission to conduct a three-day private test after it has resolved a chassis flaw.

The former Renault team pulled out of this week's Barcelona test after the unspecified problem was identified early during the opening day's running on Tuesday.

With pre-season preparations limited to just three tests in 2012, next week's Barcelona running will be the last before the championship begins in Australia.


Lotus left after taking part in the first two days of testing this week…That leaves two days of non-participation. I think it would be benevolent of the rest of the field to give Lotus one extra day, but no more. What is the reasoning behind positively reinforcing negative behavior?
:s ailor: Next thing you know they will be insisting that FOTA honors Kimi's markers to support his gelato habit.

[SGWilko]

Feb.23 (GMM)

Lotus left after taking part in the first two days of testing this week…That leaves two days of non-participation. I think it would be benevolent of the rest of the field to give Lotus one extra day, but no more. What is the reasoning behind positively reinforcing negative behavior?
:s ailor: Next thing you know they will be insisting that FOTA honors Kimi's markers to support his gelato habit.

If I were Caterham - I'd politely suggest they go and whistle.......

[AndyL]

Times are misleading when the circumstances are different for each team. There was alot of media excitement surrounding McLaren regardless of where they finished on the timesheets and the feeling from Lewis suggests they are happy with their progress so far. Long runs with decent times is a better position than they were last season.

I think McLaren are going well, but Red Bull are still looking like the team to beat.

[Tazio]

If I were Caterham - I'd politely suggest they go and whistle....... :s ailor: Aye! :s pin:

[jens]

I see that at Barcelona some teams have finally started to concentrate on getting some speed out of the car after being at the back at Jerez. Mostly Sauber (2nd yesterday) and Williams today. I think the lap of Williams (1:22.391) was pretty much a qualifying sim - also on supersoft tyres as reported. Others haven't shown their maximum yet, so we can only guess, how much faster the rivals can go.

Looking at the comments around, Red Bull seems to be the car to beat (hardly surprising!). Arguably McLaren runs close, but it is anyone's guess, how close exactly. Is it closer than last year or perhaps even able to match RBR? Ferrari has improved, but are still behind the leaders. As is Mercedes. Lotus with their chassis issues is now a complete unknown - how much are they going to fall?! Midfield is still hard to rank, but it looks like Caterham is finding it overwhelmingly difficult to threaten the midfield even in their third season of F1.

[christophulus]

Obviously a low fuel run, but Maldonado's time was half a second faster than he managed in Q2 at Barcelona last year, so they've made some improvement (thankfully)!

[jens]

Obviously a low fuel run, but Maldonado's time was half a second faster than he managed in Q2 at Barcelona last year, so they've made some improvement (thankfully)!

Incidentally Maldonado's effort in qualifying for the 2011 Spanish GP was absolutely fine, he reached Q3! And pole-time then was 1.20,9.

So even though at Jerez a few weeks ago Mercedes was fastest with its 2011 car, it looks like in the long-run 2012 cars may well turn out to be faster than its predecessors.

[mstillhere]

It looks like the FIA will look into it. The "culprits" seem to be RB and McLaren. I put culprits with quotation marks since there are no culprits, according to the FIA, during pre-season practice sessions. Any team can test anything they want legal or illegal. However, all creativity will stop on Fri before the Melbourne GP where all cars, their mapping and their exhausts will be closely checked. I wonder what's going to happen.

[Tazio]

FIA to eliminate potential for F1 exhaust blowing by closing off ECU loophole - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97662)
Renault announced before testing even began that they'd figured out a way around the ban, and Newey said too that he still had some exhaust tricks working, so I think it was pretty much just a matter of time before this came to a head. The initial report this morning was that Ferrari was protesting and that Mercedes was using the trick as well. But maybe it was McLaren or Merc doing the protest.
It doesn't matter. What matters is that it was done before the first race so that we don't have to deal with it then. It has historically been Ferrari's style to wait until the last possible moment to lodge these kinds of complaints. It could put a team or two a little on its back foot, while ensuring it is clarified in time for it to be inaccessible for any part of the season without having to bring the the spectre of penalties into the arguement. What matters is that it was done before the first race so that we don't have to deal with it then. This is no different than any other preseason protest, like the double diffuser issue or anything else, and if I was Ferrari or anyone else that fancies themselfes fighting for wins I would want this out of Red Bull and Newy's developement department ;)

[wedge]

Looking at the comments around, Red Bull seems to be the car to beat (hardly surprising!). Arguably McLaren runs close, but it is anyone's guess, how close exactly. Is it closer than last year or perhaps even able to match RBR? Ferrari has improved, but are still behind the leaders. As is Mercedes. Lotus with their chassis issues is now a complete unknown - how much are they going to fall?! Midfield is still hard to rank, but it looks like Caterham is finding it overwhelmingly difficult to threaten the midfield even in their third season of F1.

It seems th general feeling is that status quo remains. Very odd! Look back at history and rules changes shakes up the order!

[Nikki Katz]

Williams seem to have been fastest for much of the week, but the press releases seem to suggest that actually the car isn't handling as well as they thought.

Also, I know test times are pretty much meaningless, but I thought that Caterham would make a step towards the midfield (though I wasn't really expecting them to properly catch them). It looks like they haven't, but Marussia and Hispania have just moved even further to the back.

I think I'd put my money on Vettel for the title again, possibly by some margin - times haven't been special but everyone seems pretty happy with the car, which is more than can be said for most of the competitors. I was expecting Ferrari to make a much bigger step than they appear to have done, considering the rules changes would appear to hurt the 2011 Red Bull and McLaren more than the Ferrari.

[Zico]

McLaren have a major upgrade to come on their car for the final pre-season test.

"Button said after Thursday's testing: "We have an update on the car for the first race. It is not a completely straightforward update as it is not about bolting downforce on the car - it is slightly more than that.

"I just hope we are going in the right direction. The wind tunnel says we are. I am looking to the update next week, and then we can start balancing the car and finding a direction for the first race." "

BBC Sport - Kamui Kobayashi sets pace on final day of Barcelona test (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/17154983)



Sounds intriguing

[Tazio]

McLaren have a major upgrade to come on their car for the final pre-season test.

"Button said after Thursday's testing: "We have an update on the car for the first race. It is not a completely straightforward update as it is not about bolting downforce on the car - it is slightly more than that.

"I just hope we are going in the right direction. The wind tunnel says we are. I am looking to the update next week, and then we can start balancing the car and finding a direction for the first race." "

BBC Sport - Kamui Kobayashi sets pace on final day of Barcelona test (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/17154983)



Sounds intriguing
I think this^^^^^ was it bro.

[Zico]

I think this^^^^^ was it bro.

Are you saying that you think this was the final pre-season test? .. According to the link there is another test on 1st March...

[Tazio]

Not at all! I have a suspicion the upgrade that Whitmarsh is referring to is the exhaust overrun loop hole that will be programmed out of the ECU. Please take note I said I think not that I know. If it is something else we will find out in due time.
Chill bro :cool:

[Zico]

Not at all! I have a suspicion the upgrade that Whitmarsh is referring to is the exhaust overrun loop hole that will be programmed out of the ECU. Please take note I said I think not that I know. If it is something else we will find out in due time.
Chill bro :cool:


Ah, got you now, just didn't know what you meant, I'm chilled bro. :cool:


:)

[mstillhere]

How do you reconcile "test times are pretty much meaningless" with "I was expecting Ferrari to make a much bigger step than they appear to have done" in you post? How do you know they haven't and how do you know McLaren has? Not based on their times I hope.

I don't know where everybody is. I actually this year I see more hiding then ever before. Especially form Ferrari. And don't forget McLaren being involved in this pre-season mini scandal abouit running their car with they blown diffuser deemed illegal for this season?So, if you say you know how meaningless test times well............they really are. Let's wait and see until..................Barcelona I would say

[N4D13]

How do you reconcile "test times are pretty much meaningless" with "I was expecting Ferrari to make a much bigger step than they appear to have done" in you post? How do you know they haven't and how do you know McLaren has? Not based on their times I hope.

I don't know where everybody is. I actually this year I see more hiding then ever before. Especially form Ferrari. And don't forget McLaren being involved in this pre-season mini scandal abouit running their car with they blown diffuser deemed illegal for this season?So, if you say you know how meaningless test times well............they really are. Let's wait and see until..................Barcelona I would say
Rather than Ferrari actually hiding something, I'd believe that they aren't finding their way with the car just yet. However, this isn't really significant, as we still have some weeks to go before the first GP and they can get their car sorted out before then. Or perhaps it's a dog and it doesn't have any of the potential they were looking for. Anyway, considering that, according to various sources, the car wasn't behaving well enough at the exit of the corners, I doubt that they're hiding something, it's just that the car isn't working just yet.

[Tazio]

Good obsrvations!
Not a knock, but don't kid yourself, they are also hiding things. With issues involving finding a true base line which has been accomplished I'm led to believe.
They have had the perfect reason to fall off the radar in that respect. I would be worried about falling into that trap. Best to see what happens in the final practices, and the start of the season. It's best all around to just wait and see what happens in the first few races

[driveace]

Well according to the papers here in OZ ,Bernie is hoping that Seb does not run away from the others so early in the season.He would prefer it to be decided on the last race of the season.Seb probably does not agree !
i get the feeling there is a lot of sandbagging,and we will not know any ones full potential before Melbourne

[scaliwag]

Here's my three penney's worth on Mclaren, they stated at the launch, the car would be very different come the first race, since then they have stated they have a major update for the next test, now I noted JB's best time on Friday was set on hard tyre's and he wasn't that far off the pace setters, whereas all the top times at both tests so far have been set on mediums, soft, or super soft tyre's perhaps that's the reason LH & JB have a smile on their faces.

Regards scaliwag.

[airshifter]

i get the feeling there is a lot of sandbagging,and we will not know any ones full potential before Melbourne

There is always some sandbagging in testing, and I completely agree that we won't know who is where until the season starts. Sometimes the final practice sessions will show the teams hand more, but not always.

[jens]

I'd say 'sandbagging' as such is vastly exaggerated, at least in a planned manner. Those people are professionals and the primary goal of testing is to understand and develop the car - and for doing it efficiently you need to run the car in optimal F1 racing conditions. There is no time to fool others, because it leads aside the main attention of preparing your own car for the season and is actually distracting for yourself.

[Tazio]

I'd say 'sandbagging' as such is vastly exaggerated, at least in a planned manner. Those people are professionals and the primary goal of testing is to understand and develop the car - and for doing it efficiently you need to run the car in optimal F1 racing conditions. There is no time to fool others, because it leads aside the main attention of preparing your own car for the season and is actually distracting for yourself. So you're saying Red Bull is a midfield team? Jens it depends on what your definition of sandbagging is. I think holding back on your ultimate pace is (by definition) sandbagging. They will show something close to it by the end of testing than it won't be sandbagging.

[mstillhere]

And why would anybody show what they are holding in their hands ahead of time? There are very few chances to test this year, as I mentioned earlier. So, I if were a team manager I would want to test my new car as much as possible.

[SGWilko]

One of the main aims now that testing mileage is quite restrictive is to ensure the windtunnel and sim numbers correlate to track data. If you get that licked the battle is half won. Then you need to look at weights and how this affects rake and suspension etc. Then tyre degradation, and how good your car is at warming the tyres and preserving them.

I don't really see there is any need to bolt on a set of super softs, stick a thible full of fuel in and blitz a lap - what would you learn?

The teams can happily run fuyll chat on their own fuel loads as no-one will know what fuel is in. You can ease a little on the straights to 'inflate' a laptime....

[jens]

So you're saying Red Bull is a midfield team? Jens it depends on what your definition of sandbagging is. I think holding back on your ultimate pace is (by definition) sandbagging. They will show something close to it by the end of testing than it won't be sandbagging.

Why midfield? Everyone thinks that RBR is a frontrunner. They don't need to top the timesheets to make the insiders understand, what is really going on. Red Bull has mostly been testing with high fuel loads. It doesn't mean that they are specifically "holding back" rather than just following their testing programme, like learning about tyre management with full tanks.

Definition of sandbagging? I'd say an attempt to make yourself look weaker than you really are. Insiders don't look at the fastest times anyway. Much more telling information are race simulations (of course some things need to be taken into account there as well - like which tyre compounds was anyone using). There is no need to play games during such 'simulation' as team needs to understand, how exactly would the car behave over a Grand Prix. And RBR left a good impression there.

One reason, why Ferrari is still very difficult to rate, is that unlike others they haven't done any race simulations yet. Just shorter stints with unknown fuel loads. But I don't consider this as sandbagging, because they have a different testing programme due to new car and difficulties they have faced with it. They have felt the need to try out lots of different settings, so they couldn't afford to spend time on a very long run. But getting a race simulation under your belt before the start of the season is important, so time is tight and they shall do it next week.

[wedge]

I'd say 'sandbagging' as such is vastly exaggerated, at least in a planned manner. Those people are professionals and the primary goal of testing is to understand and develop the car - and for doing it efficiently you need to run the car in optimal F1 racing conditions. There is no time to fool others, because it leads aside the main attention of preparing your own car for the season and is actually distracting for yourself.

Testing is primarily driving consistently.

You learn nothing in optimal racing conditions ie. driving on the limit. It is often said that this was weakness of Ronnie Peterson and even Schumi too because they can drive round a car's problems - hence the need for driving in a consistent manner.

RBR traditionally sandbag in GP weekends and it never hurt them. They look nothing special in FP until Vettel does his magic in Q3.

If you expose your speed then why draw needless attention? RBR tried to counter this by using stickers of fake exhausts! Ferrari admit their car has problems but then to what extent?

[Tazio]

Why midfield? Everyone thinks that RBR is a frontrunner :)

This is emblematic of your entire post. I was being facetious you silly boy. (Red Bull and McLaren have consistently ended session in the center of the time sheets) ]http://f1tests.co.cc/2012.php[/url]

[Zico]

Of course teams dont show their full pace capability but does that really have anything to do with catching the rest of the grid on the hop? What advantage would intentional sandbagging at pre-season testing actually give?

Surely all teams are working at 100% in every area (no matter what) to ensure they have the best possible package with the available resources they have. I just dont see this knowledge of where they are in the pecking order as a significant advantage/disadvantage.... I suspect that a consistant tyre, fuel load, aero etc testing program has far more value than disguising raw pace and this (consistant testing) is their main and most valuable objective and ultimately helps determine what their raw pace will be.

[The Black Knight]

I was in Barcelona last week for two days of the testing. From what I saw there the McLaren looks very good on slow speed corners and gets on the power slightly earlier than the Red Bulls but I think the RBR still generates more downforce through the high speed ones than the McLaren, not much appears to have changed in that area since last year. McLaren have a huge upgrade coming for the next test which might close this gap. I'm sure RBR aren't standing still either. I honestly think that Mercedes will have leap frogged Ferrari, at least at the start of the year. That Ferrari didn't look like an easy car to handle to me at all, but hard to judge this considering they are trying out so many different things at the moment. All up in the air really, but the McLarens and RBR's look close.

[jens]

I think it is a bit of an illusion that someone may successfully fool the rest of the field. Insiders and teams have a lot of data, they are working next to other teams, see them all the time and I think they have a pretty good idea, where does anyone stand and what is really going on - including someone plays tricks. The only people, who can be surprised, are us, the fans, who do not have enough information available. :) Would an F1 team really sandbag just to catch out some F1 fans? Nah...

I think some engineers in the paddock have a very good idea, how does the current pecking order look like. But us, the fans on forums, keep discussing and wondering, how good each team might be and what could it all mean. We are merely guessing due to lack of information. And this generates all kinds of random views (like sandbagging) without a serious rationale behind it.

[Tazio]

Good post Jens, :up: and very logical. In my way of thinking there is always gamesmanship between teams, and they really don't want the competition to know their ultimate speed. It may be a little bag of sand. ;) The engineers also know this, and they know that they can't take everything they observe as gospel. I think Wedge put this quite well:

RBR traditionally sandbag in GP weekends and it never hurt them. They look nothing special in FP until Vettel does his magic in Q3.
If you expose your speed then why draw needless attention? RBR tried to counter this by using stickers of fake exhausts! Ferrari admit their car has problems but then to what extent?
Red Bull Managed to develop the EBD right under the other team’s noses, the same goes for McLaren’s F-duct.
However these things are grossly exaggerated by the press, and many times are based on nothing but a Journo's whim. :)

[jens]

Found this:
http://f.blick.ch/img/incoming/crop1782225/126278233-chorizontal-w644/Formtabelle-nach-8-nach-12.jpg

F1 media publications have done their evaluation of tests. :p : The ranking of Lotus is largely based on Jerez and at the present moment looks quite random as we don't know the effect of chassis issues. Force India has been the most impressive midfield team and may well beat Ferrari themselves.

[Tazio]

These odds were posted about 1/2 way through preseason testing. You know what they say opinions are like.... everybody has one. :) ;)

http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/3372/bildschirmfoto20120223u.png

http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/3372/bildschirmfoto20120223u.png

[christophulus]

I guess this belongs in here rather than the car launches thread:


Marussia has been forced to scrap plans to run its new Formula 1 car at this week's Barcelona test after failing its final mandatory crash test.

Marussia forced to delay new Formula 1 car launch after failing final mandatory crash test - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97710)

Wonder if it's the same part of the test that caused HRT trouble? Either way it's a bad way to start the season. I was just thinking they've been very quiet recently.

[mstillhere]

here you ahve Alonso's thoughts about where Ferrari and everyone else is standing right now:

Fernando Alonso relaxed about Ferrari F1 team's pre-season preparations - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97709)

[Knock-on]

here you ahve Alonso's thoughts about where Ferrari and everyone else is standing right now:

Fernando Alonso relaxed about Ferrari F1 team's pre-season preparations - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97709)

Lot of "we hope" and "faith" in that statement. Reading between the lines, I think he's expecting to be fighting for 5/6th with Mercedes.

[Garry Walker]

Lot of "we hope" and "faith" in that statement. Reading between the lines, I think he's expecting to be fighting for 5/6th with Mercedes.

For Ferrari, I would love to see them fight for 13th-14th places in races, I mean that would be just so funny, if only for the reaction of the ferrari fans and true justice for mr.car developer 6 tenths, but I can't see them being that bad (as AMuS and Gazzetta dello Sport predict)

[N4D13]

Well, Grosjean has been quickest for Lotus on Monday:

1. Grosjean Lotus 1m23.252s 73
2. Button McLaren 1m23.510s +0.258 64
3. Perez Sauber 1m23.820s +0.568 118
4. Webber Red Bull 1m23.830s +0.578 102
5. Rosberg Mercedes 1m23.992s +0.740 128
6. Vergne Toro Rosso 1m24.216s +0.964 113
7. Di Resta Force India 1m24.305s +1.053 98
8. Massa Ferrari 1m24.318s +1.066 105
9. Petrov Caterham 1m24.876s +1.624 123
10. Maldonado Williams 1m25.587s +2.335 58

Does anyone know what Ferrari have been up to? Have they pulled off any long runs, or just short runs as they have been doing in the previous tests? If they don't show anything special before Saturday, I'll have to conclude that they're screwed.

[SGWilko]

Well, Grosjean has been quickest for Lotus on Monday:

1. Grosjean Lotus 1m23.252s 73
2. Button McLaren 1m23.510s +0.258 64
3. Perez Sauber 1m23.820s +0.568 118
4. Webber Red Bull 1m23.830s +0.578 102
5. Rosberg Mercedes 1m23.992s +0.740 128
6. Vergne Toro Rosso 1m24.216s +0.964 113
7. Di Resta Force India 1m24.305s +1.053 98
8. Massa Ferrari 1m24.318s +1.066 105
9. Petrov Caterham 1m24.876s +1.624 123
10. Maldonado Williams 1m25.587s +2.335 58

Does anyone know what Ferrari have been up to? Have they pulled off any long runs, or just short runs as they have been doing in the previous tests? If they don't show anything special before Saturday, I'll have to conclude that they're screwed.

Ferrari did a 39 lapper today, average drop per stint was 1.6secs, the Red Bull dropping just 1 sec over a stint.

Buttons fast time set on the hard compound in the morning!

[N4D13]

Ferrari did a 39 lapper today, average drop per stint was 1.6secs, the Red Bull dropping just 1 sec over a stint.

Buttons fast time set on the hard compound in the morning!
Well, thanks for that. That might be actually good for Ferrari, as they are just starting to do long runs and, well, the car doesn't seem to be that bad. But then again, the picture of what is actually going on is just as clear as mud, as usual.

[Knock-on]

When you look at length of stints and tyres on the Ferrari, it's not fr off the pace of the Bull. Anyone expecting them for be fighting to make the top 10 will be dissapointed I think.

[AndyL]

Kovalainen has now done a 1:23.8 in the Caterham, much faster than they've gone previously. I guess that was a full-on qualy simulation. Vergne has gone to the top of the time sheets with a 1:23.1. I wonder if we'll start seeing some teams' true pace now. If Caterham can do a 1:23.8 you have to wonder what kind of mind-boggling speeds the top teams have in their pockets.

[DazzlaF1]

Kovalainen has now done a 1:23.8 in the Caterham, much faster than they've gone previously. I guess that was a full-on qualy simulation. Vergne has gone to the top of the time sheets with a 1:23.1. I wonder if we'll start seeing some teams' true pace now. If Caterham can do a 1:23.8 you have to wonder what kind of mind-boggling speeds the top teams have in their pockets.

Caterham's race pace has been great so far, the addition of KERS certainly has helped them

[wedge]

Merc have come up with mini-DD! Note the vis-flow on the brake lights. The sidepods, coke bottle and exhausts aim straight into the starter hole cum diffuser.

http://img851.imageshack.us/img851/7528/formel1testbarcelona010.jpg

[wedge]

I think it is a bit of an illusion that someone may successfully fool the rest of the field. Insiders and teams have a lot of data, they are working next to other teams, see them all the time and I think they have a pretty good idea, where does anyone stand and what is really going on - including someone plays tricks. The only people, who can be surprised, are us, the fans, who do not have enough information available. :) Would an F1 team really sandbag just to catch out some F1 fans? Nah...

I think some engineers in the paddock have a very good idea, how does the current pecking order look like. But us, the fans on forums, keep discussing and wondering, how good each team might be and what could it all mean. We are merely guessing due to lack of information. And this generates all kinds of random views (like sandbagging) without a serious rationale behind it.

Testing is a guessing game between teams. There is different fuel loads, tyre compounds, car specifications, testing programs.

This time last year Ferrari were highly rated due to their low tyre degradation. Now it turns out that the F150 Italia was seriously flawed.

Is it any wonder that there is sandbagging? As I said earlier, RBR have done this before and we know how fragile and compromising Newey's cars can be.

[N4D13]

Testing is a guessing game between teams. There is different fuel loads, tyre compounds, car specifications, testing programs.

This time last year Ferrari were highly rated due to their low tyre degradation. Now it turns out that the F150 Italia was seriously flawed.

Is it any wonder that there is sandbagging? As I said earlier, RBR have done this before and we know how fragile and compromising Newey's cars can be.
At this time, it looks that the new Ferrari is eating its tyres up in no time. The tyre drop-off is looking rather high - but then again, this is the first time they're trying to do long-ish runs. Perhaps they'll manage to treat their tyres better, although it looks that the new car is pretty much the opposite of last year's when it comes to tyre usage.

[pino]

Friday morning times :

1. Jean-Eric Vergne (Fra/Toro Rosso) 1'23.126 (31 giri)
2. Fernando Alonso (Spa/Ferrari) 1'23.447 (35)
3. Romain Grosjean (Fra/Lotus-Renault) 1'23.528 (34)
4. Sebastian Vettel (Ger/Red Bull-Renault) 1'23.536 (38)
5. Heikko Kovalainen (Fin/Caterham-Renault) 1'23.828 (34)
6. Nico Hulkenberg (Ger/Force India-Mercedes)1'23.893 (33)
7. Lewis Hamilton (Gbr/McLaren-Mercedes) 1'24.111 (30)
8. Michael Schumacher (Ger/Mercedes-AMG) 1:24.663 (19)
9. Pastor Maldonado (Ven/Williams-Renault) 1'25.801 (20)
10. Kamui Kobayashi (Gia/Sauber) 1'26.111 (35)

source :gazzetta.it :p :

[DazzlaF1]

Final Day 2 standings


Pos Driver Team Time Laps
1. Grosjean Lotus 1m22.614s 123
2. Vergne Toro Rosso 1m23.126s +0.512 31
3. Vettel Red Bull 1m23.361s +0.747 85
4. Alonso Ferrari 1m23.447s +0.833 124
5. Kovalainen Caterham 1m23.828s +1.214 104
6. Kobayashi Sauber 1m23.836s +1.222 77
7. Hulkenberg Force India 1m23.893s +1.279 33
8. Schumacher Mercedes 1m23.978s +1.364 79
9. Hamilton McLaren 1m24.111s +1.497 65
10. Senna Williams 1m24.925s +2.311 48
11. Maldonado Williams 1m25.801s +3.187 20

Source, Autosport

[Mia 01]

It´s looking good for Lotus for the moment!

Go Kimi!

[Tazio]

At this time, it looks that the new Ferrari is eating its tyres up in no time. The tyre drop-off is looking rather high - but then again, this is the first time they're trying to do long-ish runs. Perhaps they'll manage to treat their tyres better, although it looks that the new car is pretty much the opposite of last year's when it comes to tyre usage.
In their race sim's that almost ran concurrently, Fry confirmed that Alonso used a combination of worn and new tires, as opposed to Grosjean who used all new sets.

[DexDexter]

Lotus is still surprisingly competitive. Their race pace today was really impressive. I'm sure they'll qualify in the top 10 in Australia.

[Tazio]

Lotus is still surprisingly competitive. Their race pace today was really impressive. I'm sure they'll qualify in the top 10 in Australia. They do indeed. I hope they don't stop developement as early in this season as thy did last year. That would piss Kimi off. ;)

[N4D13]

In their race sim's that almost ran concurrently, Fry confirmed that Alonso used a combination of worn and new tires, as opposed to Grosjean who used all new sets.
Thanks for that. Still, their tyre usage isn't looking really great.

[Mia 01]

They do indeed. I hope they don't stop developement as early in this season as thy did last year. That would piss Kimi off. ;)

My prediction is that the Lotus car regulary will top both Ferraris, one MacLaren and perhaops even one RedBull. And, that Kimi will be above Alonso in the standings when the season is over.

[Zico]

Kimi will be above Alonso in the standings when the season is over.

Would you put money on that?... I wouldnt.

[mstillhere]

I would love t see the reverse on last year's championship. Those who are first in testing would be last and those who are slow in testing would be instead first.

[driveace]

My prediction is that the Lotus car regulary will top both Ferraris, one MacLaren and perhaops even one RedBull. And, that Kimi will be above Alonso in the standings when the season is over.

where do I send my bets too please? and what odds do I get ?

[jens]

Hmm. While it looks like Red Bull and McLaren are still above others, it is becoming difficult to rank teams behind them. Hard to choose between Mercedes, Lotus, Ferrari and Force India. Also the long-run performance of Sauber has been praised. Meanwhile both Mercedes and Ferrari seem to have tyre degradation issues, more so than others.

[airshifter]

where do I send my bets too please? and what odds do I get ?

We should promote a sig betting forum. It costs no money and is harmless, but still makes you or your "opponent" eat humble pie. Seaon end predictions wouldn't be much fun, as the main laugh is when people have to display their signature for a period during the main season.

[Knock-on]

My prediction is that the Lotus car regulary will top both Ferraris, one MacLaren and perhaops even one RedBull. And, that Kimi will be above Alonso in the standings when the season is over.

How about a wager?

Alonso will wipe Kimi all over the track this year I'm afraid. Put your sig up if you think different. At the en of the season (or when it's mathematically impossible), the loser must have the winners choice of sig until the end of 2012

[N4D13]

Alonso will wipe Kimi all over the track this year I'm afraid. Put your sig up if you think different. At the en of the season (or when it's mathematically impossible), the loser must have the winners choice of sig until the end of 2012
I'm not putting my money nor my signature on anything, but I believe that this year's Ferrari is going to be a dog. It's still not working and it's not like they have a lot of time to turn things around.

From JAF1 (http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2012/03/barcelona-test-day-2-grosjean-in-the-groove-hamilton-feels-competitive/):

Ferrari’s Fernando Alonso managed the Scuderia’s first race distance simulation this afternoon, after Felipe Massa’s attempt yesterday. There was encouragement for the team from being able to work the car on long runs, but trackside observers report that the Ferrari is still clearly struggling for grip on corner exits and the drivers are noticeably later getting on the throttle than other front running cars.

[DazzlaF1]

I know qualifying pace is not the focus but if it was then this is worth noting, putting all 7 days at Barcelona together, we have 18 cars separated by less than 1 and a half seconds and less than 6 tenths separating the top 12

1. Sergio Perez (Sauber) ................ 1m 22.094
2. Jenson Button (McLaren) ................ + 0.009
3. Daniel Ricciardo (Toro Rosso) ................ + 0.061
4. Kamui Kobayashi (Sauber) ................ + 0.218
5. Pastor Maldonado (Williams) ................ + 0.297
6. Felipe Massa (Ferrari) ................ + 0.319
7. Paul Di Resta (Force India) ................ + 0.372
8. Bruno Senna (Williams) ................ + 0.386
9. Nico Hulkenberg (Force India) ................ + 0.514
10. Romain Grosjean (Lotus) ................ + 0.520
11. Heikki Kovalainen (Caterham) ................ + 0.536
12. Mark Webber (Red Bull) ................ + 0.568
13. Sebastian Vettel (Red Bull) ................ + 0.797
14. Nico Rosberg (Mercedes) ................ + 0.838
15. Jean-Eric Vergne (Toro Rosso) ................ + 1.032
16. Fernando Alonso (Ferrari) .................. + 1.086
17. Michael Schumacher (Mercedes) ................ + 1.290
18. Lewis Hamilton (McLaren) ................ + 1.496
19. Vitaly Petrov (Caterham) ................ + 2.782
20. Kimi Raikkonen (Lotus) ................ + 3.285
21. Timo Glock (Marussia) ................ + 4.079 *
22. Charles Pic (Marussia) ................ + 5.249 *

* 2011 Car
Valtteri Bottas time not included

[Dave B]

I doubt the Ferrari will be a "dog" but I also see them struggling for wins early in the season. They will however wipe the floor with Lotus-Renault-Genii-Lada-Cuthbert-Dibble-Grub, Kimi notwithstanding.

[EuroTroll]

How about a wager?

Alonso will wipe Kimi all over the track this year I'm afraid. Put your sig up if you think different. At the en of the season (or when it's mathematically impossible), the loser must have the winners choice of sig until the end of 2012

I'm up for that! I'll wager Renault in general and Kimi in particular will be way ahead of Ferrari/Alonso, especially in the early season.

[EuroTroll]

I'm up for that! I'll wager Renault in general and Kimi in particular will be way ahead of Ferrari/Alonso, especially in the early season.

I mean Lotus, not Renault. :)

[fandango]

I've been a bit busy with work lately, but not too busy that I didn't manage a trip out to the circuit. Here are some photos from Feb 22.

https://picasaweb.google.com/105401552188017174005/F1TestingFeb2012?authuser=0&feat=directlink

[jens]

Regarding Ferrari v Lotus. Yea, Alonso will outscore Kimi over a full season. Also considering Kimi's comments about steering issues as the car may not be to his liking/he is still re-adapting to F1, etc. So getting top performance out of himself may take time. But it must be added that beating over a full season doesn't mean Lotus couldn't be able to beat Ferrari early in the season. Flashback to 2011. From the first two races Renault got two podiums, Ferrari zero. Going by the points accumulated by the end of the year one wouldn't have expected such start!

But beating Lotus over a full season is not Ferrari's priority, WDC is. However, this is where they are most likely going to fall short, even more so than in 2011 if testing is anything to go by.


I know qualifying pace is not the focus but if it was then this is worth noting, putting all 7 days at Barcelona together, we have 18 cars separated by less than 1 and a half seconds and less than 6 tenths separating the top 12

................

I think especially Red Bull and McLaren are most probably capable of doing times in the 1:20's, so top teams shall have a fair amount in reserve. But I have to say Caterham's 1:22.6 was an impressive effort and they may not be as far behind midfield as they initially seemed.

[mstillhere]

According to an article published on the Italian press, Fry seems confident Ferrari is not ready to win yet. That's due to a failure of one of their main projects: having their diffusers blowing outward.

After determining during testing the that this solution was not working the way the thought they decided to go "a la RB", (sorry for accent mark missing on the "a" : ) with their diffusers blowing inword.

Such a change should not represent a major set back, however for the team. In fact Fry still feels that Ferrari would be upthere with the other teams.

He also says that the project is not being abandoned and that their engineers would be continuing working on the devollopement of this project and introduce it in the due time, convinced of the fact once applied it would give the car a decive boost.

[wedge]

Major revision for RBR

http://img4.auto-motor-und-sport.de/Sebastian-Vettel-Red-Bull-Formel-1-Test-Barcelona-4-Maerz-2012-fotoshowImage-cf9075bf-574959.jpg


I doubt the Ferrari will be a "dog" but I also see them struggling for wins early in the season. They will however wipe the floor with Lotus-Renault-Genii-Lada-Cuthbert-Dibble-Grub, Kimi notwithstanding.

Well its enough for a cause for concern that Scuderia have cancelled their driver's conference and instilled Pat Fry to answer the difficult questions.

[Tazio]

Vettel Owns up to going off and damaging the new front wing. Where's Webber's front wing when you need it? :s mokin:

[wedge]

Basically the trend this year is still blowing the diffuser but also the rear suspension.

However the rules say that the exhaust exit angle should be at least 10°. To get round this the rear of the sidepods are aggressivelly sloped to meet the floor of the chassis and thus creating a channel of air and exhaust air to feed into the rear of the car.

RBR have a novel system: they have a duct at the bottom of the sidepods. Air from the side/bottom profile of the sidepods is fed into this duct and exits at the floor/sidepod transition and thus more air to play with

http://www.formula1.com/wi/0x0/sutton/2011/dms1203ma21.jpg

[jas123f1]

My prediction is that the Lotus car regulary will top both Ferraris, one MacLaren and perhaops even one RedBull. And, that Kimi will be above Alonso in the standings when the season is over.

I think that .. sure, Lotus and Kimi looks fast ... but it is not possible know how good the teams are until after the race in Australia ... however ..if one are listening to the drivers .. it gets a feeling that it will be tighter than last year. It's also great that Kimi is back in F1 and I hope the car Lotus can give him is good enough that he can give the other a good fight :) ...

[CavallinoRampante]

I disagree with the pessimistic view (that so many of you share) of the Ferraris' performance.
I know for a fact that they are working at this very moment, on a B chassis, which is identical to the A chassis at the front, and has minor mods at the back and sidepod area to accomodate new sidepods' shape. This will allow a better placement of the exhaust tubes that will allow to channel the air towards the inside. This will give 25% more downforce, fixing most of the balance problems.
Another thing to consider is practice times, with alonso being the fastest in Barcelona (fastest average), and the team admitting that the Ferrari is fast on a single lap, I would not be surprised to see Alonso qualify in the top 3 spots, and actually I would cont on it.
The major problem, and the biggest unknown is tyre wear. The car has shown to be hard on tyres, but OZ is a different track and you can't really be sure of anything when it comes to tyre wear.

When we look at the comments of Pat Fry etc, we have to consider that they had set a much higher goal this year, to be well ahead of the competition from the word go.
This hasn't happened and to see other cars that are roughly at the same level, is viewed as a failure.

Expect the ferraris to be doing much better than you think they will...
Mark my words for it.

;)

[CavallinoRampante]

Looks like Horner thinks the same as I do:

Horner: Beware of Ferrari | Planet-F1 News from planet-f1.com (http://www.planetf1.com/driver/12433/7576189/Horner-Beware-of-Ferrari)

[N4D13]

Looks like Horner thinks the same as I do:

Horner: Beware of Ferrari | Planet-F1 News from planet-f1.com (http://www.planetf1.com/driver/12433/7576189/Horner-Beware-of-Ferrari)
Well, you can never know whether he actually believes that Ferrari will be strong or he's just trying to divert attention from his own team being considered the fastest. Anyway, if you read the article, it's not like he's saying much, is he?

[gloomyDAY]

I know for a fact that they are working at this very moment, on a B chassis, which is identical to the A chassis at the front, and has minor mods at the back and sidepod area to accomodate new sidepods' shape.How exactly do you know that your statement is a fact? If Ferrari are actually doing a B car, then I doubt that Ferrari are in good shape for the beginning of the season. If we have learned anything from last year is that a team needs to be at the front and winning immediately.


This will allow a better placement of the exhaust tubes that will allow to channel the air towards the inside. This will give 25% more downforce, fixing most of the balance problems.Now I know you're making stuff up! That is a ridiculous amount of downforce for a car to gain from the beginning of testing to the season opener.

[CavallinoRampante]

I guess we can just wait, then you can see what I am talking about. I am in Italy and live very close to the Fiorano factory. I know several people who work there. They have already made the chassis, but have to undergo crash tests again, don't know if it will be ready for the first race, but everything else is the same.
As far as the 25% downforce, maybe I didn't explain it too well. With the new positioning they reckon they can get 25% of what they could get with the blown diffuser, which would be enough to fix most of their problems.
Domenicali also said that the car has a very good performance over a single lap, confirming the good overall design , but by changing the exhaust to the new configuration, the lost downforce at the rear made the car less balanced, but the car is still fast, unbalanced but fast. The problem remains with tyre wear.

For you guys to write off ferrari, and put predictions like 10th on the grid, or lower, is just lack of objectivity, or wishful thinking.

[jens]

Hmm, good to have an insider on the forum. :) :up: But it shall not be news that an F1 team is working really hard on solutions and improving the car. The real question is whether Ferrari's upgrades are better than the ones of other teams. I don't think Ferrari is 10th, but at the moment we can say so much that Ferrari is behind its key rivals (Red Bull and McLaren) and it is certainly not an easy task to catch them.

It is not ruled out that this concept of car can work well in the long-run. For example in 2013, when Ferrari rises to title contention. Reminds me, how Gordon Murray got 1986 Brabham wrong, but took his ideas to McLaren and won the title in 1988 dominantly.

[wedge]

I guess we can just wait, then you can see what I am talking about. I am in Italy and live very close to the Fiorano factory. I know several people who work there. They have already made the chassis, but have to undergo crash tests again, don't know if it will be ready for the first race, but everything else is the same.
As far as the 25% downforce, maybe I didn't explain it too well. With the new positioning they reckon they can get 25% of what they could get with the blown diffuser, which would be enough to fix most of their problems.
Domenicali also said that the car has a very good performance over a single lap, confirming the good overall design , but by changing the exhaust to the new configuration, the lost downforce at the rear made the car less balanced, but the car is still fast, unbalanced but fast. The problem remains with tyre wear.

For you guys to write off ferrari, and put predictions like 10th on the grid, or lower, is just lack of objectivity, or wishful thinking.

But rival teams will be doing the same, they too will be trying to make gains for Melbourne.

The question is can Ferrari make huge gains?

[CavallinoRampante]

See, I have complete faith in this guy: File:Rorybyrne.jpg - Wikipedia (http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rorybyrne.jpg)

this year he's given more than a few advices on the new car.... ;)

[CavallinoRampante]

The main problem remains the wind tunnel. It's still spitting out data that does not match to real life testing... that's where the exhaust placement problem originated from.

[ArrowsFA1]

When we look at the comments of Pat Fry etc, we have to consider that they had set a much higher goal this year, to be well ahead of the competition from the word go.
This hasn't happened and to see other cars that are roughly at the same level, is viewed as a failure.
If being "well ahead of the competition from the word go" was Ferrari's goal then it was an unrealistic one.

To expect Ferrari to jump well ahead of Red Bull (2011 - 650pts) and McLaren (497pts) from third (375pts) in the championship was never going to happen.

[CavallinoRampante]

Well, based on their effort and budget spended they have the right to be disappointed if they worked towards that goal. This said, this year's ferrari won't be a midfield runner...

[SGWilko]

Well, based on their effort and budget spended they have the right to be disappointed if they worked towards that goal. This said, this year's ferrari won't be a midfield runner...

Surely, the RRA, which I understand all teams (regardless of their participation in FOTA or not) are bound by, is legally enforceable and restricts the teams to a certain budget. One hopes that Ferrari are not just spending themselves out of a hole.

[driveace]

I still expect the Bulls to be the car to beat.chrisian Horner is saying everybody will be on par with them ,and Mark Webber,says in the Australian papers that the McLarens will be 30 seconds down the road,but when the 5 red lights go out on Sunday,i still expect the pack to be chasing the Bulls.

[steveaki13]

Yup, The sure thing in F1 is when these World Champions (Red Bull) are so sure they will be trailing it means they are likely to win the opener.

I can't wait......