Is it possible faster than Formula1?

[dpal]

Hello from Australia.
Question
Is it possilbe for a smaller formula car formula 3, formula 2 or gp2 to be faster in certain types of corners than f1? Cheers :D

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Perhaps around a slow corner where the car is going too slow to produce any downforce then I suppose it might me possible. Such as the Monaco hairpin.

[Mark]

Short answer is no. Formula 1 cars have way more grip than any of the above.

Now; there are cars which are faster in a straight line than Formula 1 cars ; as demonstrated on Top Gear yesterday, but still produce significantly slower lap times.

[Rollo]

I think that there might be a case to be made for certain corners as Mr Brown has suggested.

I wonder if at a corner like Turn 15 at Albert Park where F1 cars slow down to 85km/h whether or not a Formula Ford by virtue of it having a physically smaller footprint might be able to take a slightly wider line through the corner and go through at 90km/h?
Obviously an F1 car is going to accelerate far far far harder but if the attitude in a lesser formula is to conserve speed through a slow corner, would that warrant a different attitude to the way that a particular corner is taken?
I'd hazard a very nebulous guess that maybe ½% of all corners might be faster in the lesser formulae.

[jens]

For such possibility to arise, it means an F3, GP2, etc car must have some kind of an advantage over an F1 car. But I am personally not aware of any such factor that could make the lower formula superior in some area - tyres, engine, chassis, aerodynamics? Or even more specific - suspension, gearbox, etc?

Monaco hairpin? Still doubtful. Although one advantage a lower formula car can have in that particular corner, is that they are shorter in length. But I assume it would still be outweighed by mechanical grip an F1 car can generate.

[AndyL]

For such possibility to arise, it means an F3, GP2, etc car must have some kind of an advantage over an F1 car. But I am personally not aware of any such factor that could make the lower formula superior in some area - tyres, engine, chassis, aerodynamics? Or even more specific - suspension, gearbox, etc?

According to my ouija board, Colin Chapman is telling me that lighter weight would be a useful advantage :) (not in the case of a GP2 car). As well as length, I think narrower width could be an advantage, as Rollo suggested allowing a wider line in tight corners. But a narrower car would lose out by unloading the inside tyres more, unless the height of the centre of gravity were lowered too.

There was a rumour at one time that a top-spec kart could lap Monaco faster than an F1 car.

I don't think there's any dispute that a kart would be faster than an F1 car round a kart track. So if a kart is a car then I guess the answer to the original question must be yes.


Edit - just to add some more info... according to formula1.com. the cornering force for an F1 car in the Monaco hairpin is 2.42g. According to Wikipedia, a superkart can achieve around 3g, but I wouldn't like to guess how close it could get to that in that particular corner.

[jens]

I don't think there's any dispute that a kart would be faster than an F1 car round a kart track.

Well, that is true. Kart tracks are so tight and twisty that a Formula One car can barely fit in there, let alone run at its full capabilities. :D

[race_director]

just making a guess. there would be many corner in the world where even a 500cc bike would be faster than a f1 car if they use a wider line ?. say spa 1st hairpin?

[AndyL]

just making a guess. there would be many corner in the world where even a 500cc bike would be faster than a f1 car if they use a wider line ?. say spa 1st hairpin?

Maybe, but it would have to be a very tight corner for the lines to be different enough. Due to the geometry of the situation bikes don't generate the same cornering forces - maybe up to 1.5 or 1.6 g, limited by lean angle.
Race bikes look pretty unwieldy in very slow corners, for example the mickey-mouse final chicane across the pit lane entry that they used to use at Silverstone. I'd guess a more likely place for a bike to have an advantage would be a chicane that's just open enough to allow a bike to more or less straight-line it, while a car has to turn. Somewhere like the old Dingle Dell at Brands Hatch perhaps?

[fan-veteran]

the cornering force for an F1 car in the Monaco hairpin is 2.42g.
According to Wikipedia, a superkart can achieve around 3g,
If tyres with pure mechanical grip giving 3g are possible , which i very highly doubt in a racing environment, then they could be fitted on F1 car too, right. :)
Well, the exact quotation from Wikipedia about Superkart is:
"A Superkart is capable of braking from 100 mph (160 km/h) to standstill in around 2 seconds, and taking corners at nearly 3 g (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G-force) (30 m/s²)"
Obviously a downforce is included.

[dpal]

Iam sure no is not the correct answer>Please think about the question

[Rollo]

Does anyone know if speed limits apply in the pits in the Italian F3 championship?

[Mark]

Iam sure no is not the correct answer>Please think about the question

Insulting everyone isn't the best way to get an answer. But I assume from your tone you already know the answer?

[TheFamousEccles]

Iam sure no is not the correct answer>Please think about the question

If you are sure that no is not the correct answer, how about you do some work yourself and show the posters above why they are wrong? Please be mindful of the question...

[dpal]

Insulting people is not my game many great replys one not so great.

[call_me_andrew]

I think a snowmobile is faster in the right conditions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NpjUjTFJxc

[Mark]

Insulting people is not my game many great replys one not so great.

There you go again.

[dpal]

Ratio 6/1 thats great nice odds.

[gloomyDAY]

Ratio 6/1 thats great nice odds.http://jharri.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/ban-button.jpg

[Mark]

Ratio 6/1 thats great nice odds.

And again...

[dpal]

No need for that button on the key board. I have been involved in motorsport as a driver for almost 15 years. I have driven in formula 3 + two seater f3 car, formula atlantic,Porsche, Ferrari, Honda nsx, Subaru, Dodge viper, ford mondeo super touring in Australia and USA gt and endurance racing. I would consider myself a good person not up 2 speed on the underground world of forums. Always learning, cheers

[Rollo]

I have driven... ford mondeo super touring in Australia

Always learning, cheers

You are either:
Peter Hills, Dean Canto, Andrej Pavicevic, Jenni Thompson, Aaron McGill, Terry Skene, Domenic Beninca, Paula Elstrek, Damien Digby, Heidi O'Neill, Warren Luff, Mark Zonneveld, Ron Searle, Gary Quartly or Leanne Tander (Ferrier).

If you are none of these then you drove an EX Super Touring Ford Mondeo in Australia or a liar.

[leighton323]

No need for that button on the key board. I have been involved in motorsport as a driver for almost 15 years. I have driven in formula 3 + two seater f3 car, formula atlantic,Porsche, Ferrari, Honda nsx, Subaru, Dodge viper, ford mondeo super touring in Australia and USA gt and endurance racing. I would consider myself a good person not up 2 speed on the underground world of forums. Always learning, cheers

Please give us a hint who (;

[Mark]

No need for that button on the key board. I have been involved in motorsport as a driver for almost 15 years. I have driven in formula 3 + two seater f3 car, formula atlantic,Porsche, Ferrari, Honda nsx, Subaru, Dodge viper, ford mondeo super touring in Australia and USA gt and endurance racing. I would consider myself a good person not up 2 speed on the underground world of forums. Always learning, cheers

There's nothing to understand really. Only the same politeness you'd expect anywhere - except in motorsport, perhaps.

[pramod]

yes offcourse why not?? many cars in NASCAR are faster than F1 cars.It doestn mean however that formula one cars are slower.FIA has changed many rules over the years which has slowed down CARs.If turbo powered engines were in use F-1 cars could have been even faster.But they were banned keeping the safety of the Drivers in mind.
According to steve macchet ,the most sophisticated F1 cars were built in 1993 after that FIA Banned so many things to make racing exiting .

[dpal]

Rollo

[gloomyDAY]

No need for that button on the key board. I have been involved in motorsport as a driver for almost 15 years. I have driven in formula 3 + two seater f3 car, formula atlantic,Porsche, Ferrari, Honda nsx, Subaru, Dodge viper, ford mondeo super touring in Australia and USA gt and endurance racing. I would consider myself a good person not up 2 speed on the underground world of forums. Always learning, cheershttp://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lsgv5ifBW01qme44t.gif

[Rollo]

Rollo

Well you're not me that's for sure.

The list I gave was a complete list of every driver who drove in Mondeos in the Australian Super Touring Championship and the Bathurst 1000 events except for Gregg Hansford who died (and it's very unlikely you're him).

[TheFamousEccles]

No need for that button on the key board. I have been involved in motorsport as a driver for almost 15 years. I have driven in formula 3 + two seater f3 car, formula atlantic,Porsche, Ferrari, Honda nsx, Subaru, Dodge viper, ford mondeo super touring in Australia and USA gt and endurance racing. I would consider myself a good person not up 2 speed on the underground world of forums. Always learning, cheers

I'm sorry, but if you have raced all of these cars - particularly the F3, then I would wager you might have a better idea if anything can go around corners faster than an F1 than many of those who offered opinions that you've rejected out of hand.

Soooo, "shenanigans" is the call from me. Its easy to be an armchair expert on a web forum, and jeebus knows I've been guilty of that. But Trolling is a different thing altogether and likely to make people inclined to disbelieve you. Just thought you might like to know, seeing as your'e new to the underground world of forums and all.

[jens]

I'm not sure this thread is achieving its purpose any more.