Busy Times For Lotus

[Jag_Warrior]

I lifted this from the F1 forum, but it seems to involve IndyCar more:


Life has gone from running behind to running at a frantic pace for IndyCar’s smallest engine manufacturer.

From headlines suggesting a sale is imminent, the signing of a brand-new team to use its IndyCar engines and the pressing need to start its on-track testing program, Lotus has had plenty to deal with lately.

Despite the possible change in ownership, Olivier Picquenot, Lotus’ Indy Project Manager, says there’s been no talk of the IndyCar program being affected if Lotus is sold.

“I hear some rumors also for sure,” the Frenchman told SPEED.com. “We are owned by the [Malaysian state-controlled] Proton company for the last 12 years, 13 years. It's nice now to be an investor for Lotus when you see how Lotus moves and has been reborn. We are interested in an investor to come and be a partner. But has it compromised IndyCar? No. (http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/indycar-busy-times-for-lotus/)

[Lousada]

I can't believe they only sell 2000 cars a year worldwide! Where are they getting the money from?

[zako85]

I believe Lotus hasn't made a profit for years. It owned by Malaysian government owned car company Proton. They hired new CEO who had a vision of elevating Lotus into the ranks of world's finest sport car manufacturers and the company has gone on spending spree since then. Lotus bought controlling share in the former Renault Formula 1 team, sponsored KV Racing, and a new Lotus engine for InyCar. They're also involved in other motor sports events, such as designing a WRC car and running a GP2 team. The effort was probably bankrolled by Malaysian government and banks. Check the related thread in F1 forums. The situation looks very much like the high tech bubble of the late 90s with investors and venture companies throwing millions at start-ups only to find out later than most startup companies had no viable business plan.

[nigelred5]

Well it looks like Proton is being sold to a a Malaysian investor who already assembles and distributes VW's and Mercedes in Malaysia. What that holds for Lotus remains to be seen.

Malaysia's DRB-Hicom to buy carmaker Proton - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/malaysias-drb-hicom-buy-carmaker-proton-061806901.html)

[FIAT1]

Best looking car in testing.

[booger]

Great to be watching the interest in IndyCar as we head into the 2012 season. So for years, low car counts were a major concern for every fan and quasi-expert on open wheel racing in the states. Then over the weekend comes the news that there might not be enough power plants to go around with all the teams lining up to compete. And the poor teams that may be left standing when this musical chair engine tune stops may have to anti up the difference and pay full price??? Give me a break! And supposedly the mfrs are already backing down on their promise of event activation and promotion of the series? Indy Car needs to holster the gun that it keeps shooting its own foot with...if only for a little while...

[monadvspec]

seems as though they are a go for this year. The Renault powered car looks great. Isn't that a Lotus?

[Terry Labonte]

You know what, you can say what you want to say about Lotus but I will tell you why I don't like Chinese manufacturers coming into this sport. They were on the Internet, one of that social media things and I'm going to tell you what they said, they were BOASTING that they don't have any American drivers this year. Bragging "7 drivers, 3 women, no Americans." NO AMERICANS. What kind of backwards society does Lotus live in where it's good to have no Americans? What kind of a "god" are these people praying to at night, that's what I wanna know, can't even say Merry Christmas in this country anymore! ED CARPENTER is a proven winner on this tour at one of the FASTEST RACES OF THEM ALL, none of this street course stuff where they go slower than I go on the highway. He's got a good team and a good sponsor and all he's missing is AN ENGINE! And Lotus is gloating that they won't give him one! LOTUS IS KEEPING A GOOD MAN DOWN, THAT'S WHAT CHINESE MANUFACTURING IS ALL ABOUT, HURTING AMERICA. I don't want none of these plastic engines in my Indy Racing League, and I WOULD RATHER SEE ED CARPENTER GO TO CHAMP CAR THAN RUN A LOTUS because I don't believe they understand that America is about RUGGED INDIVIDUALISM and that means standing behind QUALITY MATERIALS, CHILD LABOR LAWS, AND THE GOOD LORD.

AMEN and that's what I think!

[Terry Labonte]

Let me tell you about Lotus. I saw on Twitter, an important man with Lotus said "we have 7 drivers. 3 women. No Americans." HERE THEY ARE, BOASTING THEY HAVE NO AMERICANS. I tried to warn Randy Bernard about getting into the bed with these Chinese manufacturers and he went and bit. You know Tony George would have let them walk, oh you know he would have defensed this sport to his best ability, because he is a RACER AND AN AMERICAN. NO AMERICANS. What kind of backwards place is this China if they brag about having No Americans? You know I will tell you what, whatever god they're praying to here, he isn't He, the Good Lord, can't even say MERRY CHRISTMAS in this country anymore because we let a Chinese carmaker come in with their CHEAP PLASTIC ENGINE built by 8-year-old children and run in THE GREATEST SPECTACLE IN AUTO RACING, AMERICA'S Indianapolis 500, try to find me an Indianapolis ANYWHERE else in this world, I make you bet you can't! My point here is that Ed Carpenter is a proven winner on this tour and his team doesn't have an engine because these Chinese manufacturers are coming in and making bad contracts and they won't sign an AMERICAN driver and an AMERICAN team because it's some little funny game, LOOK WHO'S LAUGHING NOW, WITHOUT ED CARPENTER, YOU CAN EXPECT MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF INDYCAR FANS TO LEAVE AND IT'S ALL BECAUSE YOU WENT WITH THIS DINKY PLASTIC ENGINES MADE WITH CHEMICALS. You coulda just went with RUGGED INDIVIDUALISM like Ed Carpenter Racing is and said "hey, build an AMERICAN engine, we're talking like, 6 liters at least baby FIRE 'EM UP LET'S GO RACING SHORT TRACK SATURDAY NIGHT JET FIGHTERS IN A GYMNASIUM" and those good people MAKING THINGS IN DETROIT would have given Ed Carpenter something he could give it a real go get those wins but instead we have LOTUS who are told by the Chinese government to never give nothing to no Americans and then BRAG ABOUT IT ON TWITTER surprised they're even allowed to have the Internet in China! It burns me up, BURNS ME UP LIKE ETHANOL IN A COMBUSTION MOTOR.

That's what I think.

[Terry Labonte]

I just want to warn you. Next thing you know birth control will come with the engines!

[DBell]

Let me tell you about Lotus. I saw on Twitter, an important man with Lotus said "we have 7 drivers. 3 women. No Americans." HERE THEY ARE, BOASTING THEY HAVE NO AMERICANS. I tried to warn Randy Bernard about getting into the bed with these Chinese manufacturers and he went and bit. You know Tony George would have let them walk, oh you know he would have defensed this sport to his best ability, because he is a RACER AND AN AMERICAN. NO AMERICANS. What kind of backwards place is this China if they brag about having No Americans? You know I will tell you what, whatever god they're praying to here, he isn't He, the Good Lord, can't even say MERRY CHRISTMAS in this country anymore because we let a Chinese carmaker come in with their CHEAP PLASTIC ENGINE built by 8-year-old children and run in THE GREATEST SPECTACLE IN AUTO RACING, AMERICA'S Indianapolis 500, try to find me an Indianapolis ANYWHERE else in this world, I make you bet you can't! My point here is that Ed Carpenter is a proven winner on this tour and his team doesn't have an engine because these Chinese manufacturers are coming in and making bad contracts and they won't sign an AMERICAN driver and an AMERICAN team because it's some little funny game, LOOK WHO'S LAUGHING NOW, WITHOUT ED CARPENTER, YOU CAN EXPECT MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF INDYCAR FANS TO LEAVE AND IT'S ALL BECAUSE YOU WENT WITH THIS DINKY PLASTIC ENGINES MADE WITH CHEMICALS. You coulda just went with RUGGED INDIVIDUALISM like Ed Carpenter Racing is and said "hey, build an AMERICAN engine, we're talking like, 6 liters at least baby FIRE 'EM UP LET'S GO RACING SHORT TRACK SATURDAY NIGHT JET FIGHTERS IN A GYMNASIUM" and those good people MAKING THINGS IN DETROIT would have given Ed Carpenter something he could give it a real go get those wins but instead we have LOTUS who are told by the Chinese government to never give nothing to no Americans and then BRAG ABOUT IT ON TWITTER surprised they're even allowed to have the Internet in China! It burns me up, BURNS ME UP LIKE ETHANOL IN A COMBUSTION MOTOR.

That's what I think.

Ok, I'll play.

1) Lotus is owned by Proton, a Malaysian company, not a Chinese company.

2) The Lotus engines are made in England,designed by a long time English engine builder named John Judd.

3) IndyCar doesn't have millions and millions of fans, let alone Ed Carpenter. IndyCar has thousands of fans, Carpenter maybe has hundreds.

4) If your BiF, your writing has become more readable.

5) Try rehab, I hear good things.

[methanolHuffer]

Is that a real post, or did I just dream about it?

[FIAT1]

Some heavy smoking going on in neackar land.

[DBell]

Some heavy smoking going on in neackar land.

I checked out his other post in Nascar forum. He's Mr. Mister reincarnated.

[SoCalPVguy]

I'll be honest when I first heard about "lotus" engines by Judd I was extremely skeptical that would answer the bell at all. At least they have made it this far so lets see how the season goes...

[nigelred5]

....was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor????He!! no! lol. :crazy: I'm not sure If I was more amused or disturbed about that post....

[Jag_Warrior]

Again, I lifted this from the F1 forum. And again, I wonder how the (over) ambitious plans that Lotus/Proton laid out, including those in IndyCar, will be affected by this sale?


On the back of financial uncertainties for Group Lotus, which was recently sold along with parent company Proton to Malaysian automotive conglomerate DRB-Hicom, Lotus F1's team owner Genii Capital has ended its formal relationship with the marque.

So it looks like it wasn't just Group Lotus that was sold, but all of Proton.

Lotus F1 team committed to name despite end of title sponsor deal - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/98628)

[Marbles]

This is one messed up brand. The best numbers I could find for sales was 2,700 globally in 2010. Whatever money they are throwing into racing can't be coming out of the car division so I doubt they have little patience for results despite a couple of decades of stagnation. Dropping the Lotus F1 Team (the one that uses Renault engines) is no surprise considering the cost of F1.

As for Judd, they've had modest (that's being kind) success in some racing but for the most part has been a supplier for the "not ready for prime time players" of motorsport all their life. I could see the Lotus badge being dropped and Judd carrying on with a few teams until Honda and GM are comfortable enough to supply the rest.

[Jag_Warrior]

With all of the overinflated motorsport related plans that Lotus was rolling out, I was expecting Joe Heitzler and Kevin Kalkhoven to pop out of a cake at any moment.

In addition to the handful of cars that Lotus sold, Proton did have a "real" car business - though mainly just in Malaysia, I've read. And Lotus was also involved in automotive engineering solutions for other automotive OEM's (the Tesla project was one of the better known ones recently). But even with ALL of that, was it enough to justify being in almost every quasi-major open wheel category known to man? I don't think so.

It would be nice to see a better financed OEM come in and make a go of what Proton/Lotus started though. DRB (the new owner) assembles cars for Volkswagen and Mercedes. I'm not expecting anything from that relationship, and I'm not trying to start a "you read it here first!" rumor... I'm just saying that it would be pretty sweet to have another major OEM involved.

[Phoenixent]

Judd has been or has tried to be part of AOWS several times. Every time was a failure due to lack of money from Lotus and testing. I believe they will be gone in the month of May as they are not up to the task to supply the teams and their engine will not be up to competing against the other two manufacturer. They have almost zero testing time with their teams and that is something that should not be happening or allowed....

[Phoenixent]

Without some sort of outside finance, I doubt Judd will continue. Will IndyCar pick up the tab to get through the season?

ICS will most likely pick up the tab for Honda and Chevy to supply the ex-Lotus teams by Indy...

[Jag_Warrior]

Does anyone have a real idea of how the engine lease contracts are structured? By that I mean, are the lease payments made on a monthly basis in arrears, up front... or in total at the beginning of the season? I assume it would be a monthly or quarterly deal, but I really don't know that.

Proton/Lotus is not entering bankruptcy. So I'm assuming that whatever contractual agreements that Proton/Lotus has already entered into must (legally) be fulfilled. There may be no further development. But unless there is an "out clause" (related to a sale or new ownership of the parent company or the Lotus division), I would think the Lotus teams will continue to have engines through the 2012 season... just not very good ones. But in light of the poor start that Lotus got off to (and the type of over ambitious, shoe string operation Lotus was to begin with), any ICS team that signed on with them should have known that up front.

The F1 teams that went with (the "new") Cosworth found themselves in roughly the same boat. It's a real shame how once storied marques and brands get bought up by bean counters and then get tarnished.

[Phoenixent]

Do either have the capacity to add that many motors that quickly, no matter who pays?

I believe from when Sarah Fisher was looking for a motor that both Chevy and Honda stated after Indy she could get one from them. But then Rahal delayed his second car so Sarah could have that motor. So extra Honda's and Chevy's are coming on line it's just by when. Extra money would pay for the expedite of material orders and overtime to build them. If the money is there Honda and Ilmor can deliver them.

[JC_Berger]

Does anyone have a real idea of how the engine lease contracts are structured? By that I mean, are the lease payments made on a monthly basis in arrears, up front... or in total at the beginning of the season? I assume it would be a monthly or quarterly deal, but I really don't know that.

I interned for one of the races this year, and from what I understand, the teams get 5 or 6 engines per season (somewhere around $325,000 a piece) and I think they typically get a new one after they have put somewhere around 1,500 on it.

That being said, I think the engines are in such short supply that, at least for this year, things will be on a much more case-by-case basis.


----

Wise words.

[nigelred5]

With all of the overinflated motorsport related plans that Lotus was rolling out, I was expecting Joe Heitzler and Kevin Kalkhoven to pop out of a cake at any moment.



Well after being a so called 4 car " factory" team for Lotus last year, clearly Kalkoven knew to walk away from Lotus. IIRC the rumor was Lotus still owed KV racing quite a large bit from last year's budget.

[Malbec]

This is my first post I think on here but I remember reading a fascinating interview with Dany Bahar and his Lotus Motorsports chief in motorsport magazine.

In it they were asked about their Indy contract (interview was from midway through last year after the engine supply had been announced but before any teams had signed). Bahar said that he'd gone over to look at Indy racing, checked out Honda and Chevy, took a look at the figures and decided it wouldn't be worthwhile for Lotus to get in there. So far so sensible. Then he returned to the UK and on the spur of the moment decided that actually Lotus should get involved in Indy. I was surprised the journalist didn't press him on this, why would Lotus get involved if their own calculations demonstrated it wasn't worth their while? I suspect though that Bahar does interviews very much on his terms and the matter was left at that point.

It does raise questions about the decision making process at Lotus and it explains how they got themselves into the mess they are in.

In support of Proton though, earlier in this thread it has been suggested that this investment drive was their idea. It wasn't. They were looking to get rid of Lotus when Bahar turned up with promises of having secured $700 million from his business partners that he would inject into the car company. This money never turned up and having already spent several hundred million, Proton were faced with two choices, abandoning everything and writing off the debts they'd already made or raising the money themselves. They chose the latter. In effect they are as much victims of Bahar as anyone else screwed over by Lotus recently.

[Hoop-98]

From Lotus:

Never let the facts get in the way of a good story….

Take a little look at what we found online. Don’t you think it’s funny? We do. We had a good old giggle. After all, we love a bit of self irony, just as well really. Although it’s funny, this one’s not accurate but then again, why let the facts get in the way of a good story? The inconvenient truth is – surprise, surprise – we have never said that there are no problems at Lotus.

So whilst lots of people obviously feel the need to comment on Lotus’ current situation in the absence of proper facts or evidence, we can’t ignore these particular mistruths any longer even if we would like to, so we have decided to turn a negative into a positive and use this hilarious piece of ‘art’ to set the record straight regarding the status quo at Group Lotus and try to return a little stability to a fast changing situation.

False rumour #1: Dany Bahar is no longer CEO of Group Lotus.
Fact: Rubbish – Dany Bahar still is.

False rumour #2: Dato’ Sri Syed is no longer Managing Director of Proton.
Fact: Again rubbish. He still is.

You can thank good old Tony Fernandes for these two. Don’t take everything he tweets too seriously – perhaps he’s still frustrated about owning Caterham instead of Lotus and the fact that he fights HRT and Marussia instead of Mercedes and Ferrari in F1.

And whilst we’re on the subject of jokes - do you know the latest F1 joke? Mike Gascoyne, Caterham Group’s Chief Technical Officer, has gone missing. Why? He’s looking for the 30 to 40 points he predicted for the last F1 season. Funny.

Speaking of F1: It seems that one special so called ‘independent’ source is at the root of the lion’s share of damaging rumours and misleading stories. The delightful Joe Saward which leads us nicely to….

False rumour #3: Joe Saward is JUST an independent journalist.
Fact: He is an active Director for the Caterham Group.

And unlike some, we don’t want to get too personal, so we’ll leave it to you to judge how ‘independent’ his stories about Lotus are.

False rumour #4: Group Lotus is no longer involved in F1.
Fact: Lotus F1 Team and Group Lotus have reshaped their commercial relationship earlier this year. The new governance agreement signifies the continued commitment of Group Lotus to the team and the sport.

Group Lotus’ branding and marketing rights and subsequent activities remain unaffected by the new agreement until at least 2017. Alongside continued branding and title partnership status, Group Lotus is also the exclusive master licensee for all Lotus F1 Team merchandise.

The new agreement was reached following Group Lotus owners Proton providing team owners Genii with a £30m loan which is repayable within three years. In order to secure the loan Genii used 100% of the F1 team’s assets as collateral meaning that under the conditions of the loan agreement Proton have been given full title guarantee to all plant, machinery, show cars, computers, office and the Lotus F1 Team headquarters.

In addition Proton retains the rights to purchase 10% of the F1 team. Another 10% share option will be activated if the team default on their loan obligations with Proton.

Again we leave it to your judgement how ‘bad’ Lotus’ current situation in F1 is. And speaking of bad situations…..


False rumour #5: Group Lotus is going into administration.
Fact: Rubbish. The takeover of our parent company Proton by DRB-HICOM couldn’t have come at a worse time, but up until that point Proton was (and still remains) fully committed to our five year business plan to create jobs and to expand the factory and business. With the takeover process the funding has been restricted and DRB-HICOM is taking time to understand what to do with the business. DRB-HICOM is currently in the middle of due diligence of Group Lotus and there have been and continue to be positive discussions between Group Lotus senior management and senior management at DRB-HICOM both here in Hethel and in Malaysia. At no point has DRB-HICOM indicated to Group Lotus that it intends to put the company into administration. The over-active rumour mill is seriously damaging our business reputation, image and credibility but it is what it is.

The simple fact is, and we haven’t denied this - Lotus is going through a very difficult phase at the moment but we are showing true fighting spirit every day in trying to keep this vision alive. This is also a fact – no matter what people outside of Lotus may say or tweet or blog.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Lotus has been a joke in Indycar racing so far. If not for the herculean talents of Sebastien Bourdais, no Lotus car would even be considered close to competitive. The spin from these people is the spin of a company that is in over their heads. Their collective sucking is across the racing world, not just in Indycar.

PR spin....the bs that feeds the trolls!!!!

[luke]

...try to find me an Indianapolis ANYWHERE else in this world, I make you bet you can't!...


Sorry, I just couldn't resist, this from wikipedia:

Places in the United States:
Indianapolis, Iowa, in Mahaska County, roughly between Iowa City and Des Moines
Indianapolis, Oklahoma, in Custer County

[anthonyvop]

More tough news about Lotus in IndyCar

INDYCAR: Tough Decisions Pending By The Series, Lotus, Its Teams (http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/indycar-tough-decisions-pending-by-the-series-lotus-and-its-teams)

[DBell]

More tough news about Lotus in IndyCar

INDYCAR: Tough Decisions Pending By The Series, Lotus, Its Teams (http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/indycar-tough-decisions-pending-by-the-series-lotus-and-its-teams)


If I were a team owner and I was willing to pay more for another engine and was told by the series that I couldn't, then I think i would consider if it was worth it to stay in that series. I understand the reasoning of IndyCar trying to protect it's manufacturers from getting shut out. At the same time, I think the effort of the engine supplies should be worthy of that kind of protection and I think Lotus falls short on that. They way they are going about their engine development, few engines made and little to no testing, it's hard to see this program ever really competing against Honda and Chevy.

I think it would be better if they let the Lotus teams make whatever engine deal they want and let Lotus(Judd) sink or swim. If they go away, then maybe a more serious 3rd manufacturer will be interested in the coming seasons.

[jimispeed]

Well why haven't Cosworth stepped in? They made quite a reliable and powerful Champcar engine! I just watched Long Beach for the second time, and Simona sure could use a faster car. It's disappointing watching her drive so well, only to be overpowered by more horsepower! I guess that goes for all Lotus drivers, but she seemed to be very racy!!

[anthonyvop]

Well why haven't Cosworth stepped in?

To design, Build, develop and produce a 2.2 ltr turbo engine that can put out a reliable 750+ H.P. is not cheap. Ilmor and Judd do it because Chevy and Lotus have written large checks to subsidize the engine programs. I would even venture to guess that all 3 Honda, Chevy and Lotus are losing on the engine programs and are justifying it as a marketing and Training expenses in their respective Board rooms

[Phoenixent]

To design, Build, develop and produce a 2.2 ltr turbo engine that can put out a reliable 750+ H.P. is not cheap. Ilmor and Judd do it because Chevy and Lotus have written large checks to subsidize the engine programs. I would even venture to guess that all 3 Honda, Chevy and Lotus are losing on the engine programs and are justifying it as a marketing and Training expenses in their respective Board rooms

You need to test also and that is something that Lotus (Judd) has done so little of that they have basically shot their teams in the head for anything this year. That article was just loaded full of PR BS about we are working hard to do better. Well they are not and everyone knows it but the keep push the PR. How cares if they double or triple the amount of engines they have at Indy if they can't get out of their own smoke. Sure you might make the 30th to 33rd spot on the field but those team will fold up as their sponsors pull out. They will be just like PT on the outside looking in due to an error or lack of speed and your sponsor goes to another team. Lotus will be RB's biggest failure since running ICS by not making sure they are testing with the rest of the teams.

Oh well ICS did not need those cars any way RIGHT........

[anthonyvop]

Lotus claims 1st victim

BHA withdraws from Brazil
BHA withdraws from Brazil - Racer.com (http://www.racer.com/bha-withdraws-from-brazil/article/237384/?DCMP=EMC-RACER_DAILY&spMailingID=4083874&spUserID=MjMyNjk3MjczMgS2&spJobID=41978577&spReportId=NDE5Nzg1NzcS1)

[Phoenixent]

No surprising that Lotus has lost a team already. I think your going to see BHA at Indy with a Honda powerplant. That team has some ties to Honda with from last at the 500 and with Herta in the past. I would not be surprised that by Indy Lotus will only have one maybe two teams left. Lotus should have never been allowed to submit the paperwork to supply engines without proof they could deliver to the teams for testing. Judd knows that but did Lotus know or care...

[Marbles]

A lack of sticktoitivness that saw Rahal drop Honda the year before they broke through -- is there a lesson here for the Lotus teams? Perhaps a test team such as Gurney was for Toyota is what Lotus needs? Or is this going to be a half-hearted Indycar endeavour such as the Porsche and Alfa Romeo effort? Nahhh... this is a Judd with Lotus badging and I don't think anyone is expecting any greatness to come and have little more faith than most fans. It's a field filler. But...

...something no ones touched on here is that Lotus claims to have purchased chassis (loaned cash for?) for some teams -- something neither Honda or GM have done. They also claimed to be "sharing branding". Is this in regards to the Microsoft sponsorship on the Bing car (lotus F1 has Microsoft sponsorship). These claims shed a different light on their effort should they be true.

[anthonyvop]

The funny thing is that throughout its history Lotus never was a company that built engines. They were a Chassis company and Team. In its Heyday Lotus ran Coventry Climax and later "Ford" Cosworth engines. And their road cars had engines for other manufacturers "modified" by Lotus.

[Mad_Hatter]

DRR and BHA are both no longer Lotus teams (http://www.racer.com/report-lotus-to-release-drr-bha/article/237794/)

sigh.....

[00steven]

What a disapointment Lotus has been...

[DBell]

What a disapointment Lotus has been...

Only if you expected anything from them. I thought it was very telling that the team they had been with, KVR, didn't want to stay with them and the fact that Kalkovin's Cosworth company didn't do an engine deal with them. I think after their couple of seasons with Lotus, they knew they were big on talk and ambition, but didn't have the money to back it up.

[jimispeed]

Only if you expected anything from them. I thought it was very telling that the team they had been with, KVR, didn't want to stay with them and the fact that Kalkovin's Cosworth company didn't do an engine deal with them. I think after their couple of seasons with Lotus, they knew they were big on talk and ambition, but didn't have the money to back it up.


Ford and Cosworth should be here competing with Chevy. I was hopeful that Lotus would have been a great contender. :rolleyes:

[anthonyvop]

Ford and Cosworth should be here competing with Chevy.

Forget Ford. They are not interested.

[FIAT1]

I think V6 is next battle ground in car industry, people not interested this season could have different plans for the future.

[Anubis]

BBC reporting Lotus are now looking for a Chinese buyer :-

BBC News - Car maker Lotus in talks on sale to China, MP reveals (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-17834710)

[Phoenixent]

BBC reporting Lotus are now looking for a Chinese buyer :-

BBC News - Car maker Lotus in talks on sale to China, MP reveals (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-17834710)

The news for Lotus just keep going down and down. Hope Chevy(Ilmor) and Honda(HPD) can get more motors to the Speedway so the last three Lotus cars can make the race..

[DBell]

BBC reporting Lotus are now looking for a Chinese buyer :-



Isn't everyone these days? ;)

[champcarray]

I'm still hopeful that Judd/Lotus can make progress this year and be a contender next season.

Remember how bad Honda and Toyota engines were during their first seasons in CART? We were in the paddock after the race at New Hampshire in '94 and witnessed Bobby Rahal being taunted and laughed at by other teams' mechanics after his Honda let go yet again during that race. The engines were so bad that he rented two Penske-Ilmors from Roger so that he could compete in the Indy 500.

[FIAT1]

I'm still hopeful that Judd/Lotus can make progress this year and be a contender next season.

Remember how bad Honda and Toyota engines were during their first seasons in CART? We were in the paddock after the race at New Hampshire in '94 and witnessed Bobby Rahal being taunted and laughed at by other teams' mechanics after his Honda let go yet again during that race. The engines were so bad that he rented two Penske-Ilmors from Roger so that he could compete in the Indy 500.

I could be wrong, but I think that renting Penske cars for 500 was more about Rahal-Hogan chassis that he tried to develop and did not work well. Agree on Honda having a problems in the beginning.

[Phoenixent]

I could be wrong, but I think that renting Penske cars for 500 was more about Rahal-Hogan chassis that he tried to develop and did not work well. Agree on Honda having a problems in the beginning.

You are correct on the chassis the RH01 was a dog even when it was called the Truesports. Both Rahal and Penske were sponsored by a company that was part of the RJ Reynolds Corporation so basically that is why Penske helped him out in 1993 and the roles were switched in 1995 but that did not work out as well.

[champcarray]

Thanks for reminding me of the RH chassis issues -- I'd forgotten about that part of the problem!

[Mark in Oshawa]

Only if you expected anything from them. I thought it was very telling that the team they had been with, KVR, didn't want to stay with them and the fact that Kalkovin's Cosworth company didn't do an engine deal with them. I think after their couple of seasons with Lotus, they knew they were big on talk and ambition, but didn't have the money to back it up.
That to me has been obvious and I think anyone who signed up with Lotus for motors has only willful optimism and blinders to blame..
Kalkoven isn't a dummy as you say..

[Jag_Warrior]

I'm still hopeful that Judd/Lotus can make progress this year and be a contender next season.

Remember how bad Honda and Toyota engines were during their first seasons in CART? We were in the paddock after the race at New Hampshire in '94 and witnessed Bobby Rahal being taunted and laughed at by other teams' mechanics after his Honda let go yet again during that race. The engines were so bad that he rented two Penske-Ilmors from Roger so that he could compete in the Indy 500.

I recall the Toyotas being fitted with "oil diapers" early on because they blew up so often. I liked the AAR squad, as well as Juan Manuel Fangio II, so I felt bad for them. And yeah, the Hondas were weak too. Although I was also a fan of the Comptech-Honda program. Who was the driver that soldiered on with them, Parker Johnstone?

But I think many questioned how realistic (and serious) Lotus really was. For such a small operation, they just seemed to have too many big dreams (fantasies): F1, GP2, IndyCar, ALMS... what else?

[Marbles]

I think the fan dissatisfaction for Lotus is accentuated by the severe lack of engines available. As mentioned, Honda has been there, a couple of times, and I believe there first go around in the series was powered by Judd. Toyota of course. Cosworth dropped off until Ford came back as a badge. Alfa Romeo and Porsche had very weak efforts. Was Nissan ever the engine to have?

I guess what gave me the impression that Judd may have been onto something was that their engine was so much lighter than the others. I guess they could have used that extra bit of beef after all.

[Phoenixent]

I think the fan dissatisfaction for Lotus is accentuated by the severe lack of engines available. As mentioned, Honda has been there, a couple of times, and I believe there first go around in the series was powered by Judd. Toyota of course. Cosworth dropped off until Ford came back as a badge. Alfa Romeo and Porsche had very weak efforts. Was Nissan ever the engine to have?

I guess what gave me the impression that Judd may have been onto something was that their engine was so much lighter than the others. I guess they could have used that extra bit of beef after all.

Nissan did make engines from 1997 to 2002 and they were dogs with Oldsmobile kicking their butt until Chevy, Toyota and Honda came in after leaving CART. If Judd makes it though Indy this year they will be gone by the end of the year along with those three Lotus teams folding due sponsorship woes based on poor performance.

[anthonyvop]

1. INDYCAR amends Engine Manufacturer Guidelines: INDYCAR has modified the Supplemental Guidelines for Engine Manufacturers for the 2012 IZOD IndyCar Series season.

Under the amended rule 3.8, which went into effect beginning April 30, teams can only pair with one manufacturer in any single season unless approval is granted by INDYCAR.

"The intent of the rule is to try to help build a partnership between a team and its engine manufacturer," said Trevor Knowles, INDYCAR's director of engine development. "Having a long-term commitment helps ease concerns about confidentiality of any information the manufacturer may share with a team. It also limits a manufacturer's ability to drop a team from its line-up if they are going through a bad patch. Without it, one would see a drift of all the teams with the best results to the manufacturers with the best results creating a big imbalance across the field.

"However, we have to be pragmatic and realize that there have been and will be times when a team and its manufacturer have to go their separate ways to their mutual benefit. This change allows that to happen while still maintaining control of the process."

Henceforth to be known as the "Lotus rule"

[SoCalPVguy]

Late last year, I posted that I though Lotus "would not answer the bell". I wrote this in about October after Chevy and Honda had already rolled out engines and Lotus was no where in sight. Well I was wrong, Lotus did "answer the bell" well sort of anyway... They did not roll out engines and fit into a chassis until February just a couple of weeks before the first race (Chev/Honda already about three months or more of practice at that point). They have been uncompetitive from the get go and not getting any better after four races. Now two teams have been lucky enough to drop the dog engine but get chev/honda contracts.

My new prediction is that Lotus will drop out after the Indy 500 and three more teams will be scrambling ... Hope there will be additional engines available but I don't know...

The Malaysian Lotus effort has been a disaster from the get go from production vehicles to F1 it was a ego thing for one guy that didn't have the capital or knowhow to pull it off. Now they are bought out by an investment firm.... RIP Lotus... this reincarnation was an affront and I am sure Colin Chapman is turning over in his grave.

[beachbum]

Late last year, I posted that I though Lotus "would not answer the bell". I wrote this in about October after Chevy and Honda had already rolled out engines and Lotus was no where in sight. Well I was wrong, Lotus did "answer the bell" well sort of anyway... They did not roll out engines and fit into a chassis until February just a couple of weeks before the first race (Chev/Honda already about three months or more of practice at that point). They have been uncompetitive from the get go and not getting any better after four races. Now two teams have been lucky enough to drop the dog engine but get chev/honda contracts.

My new prediction is that Lotus will drop out after the Indy 500 and three more teams will be scrambling ... Hope there will be additional engines available but I don't know...

The Malaysian Lotus effort has been a disaster from the get go from production vehicles to F1 it was a ego thing for one guy that didn't have the capital or knowhow to pull it off. Now they are bought out by an investment firm.... RIP Lotus... this reincarnation was an affront and I am sure Colin Chapman is turning over in his grave.
:up: :up:

Businesses run on ego never seem to last. It would be sad to see the passing of the Lotus brand, but the companies future doesn't look good. At least most fans are blaming a lack of support from Lotus for the engine issues and not Judd (actually Engine Developments Ltd). Judd had their hands tied from the very beginning. When last years Lotus team (KV) passed on the new engine, that should have been a clue.

[DBell]

^^^

I agree. I've said before that Lotus is one of those companies that is completely tied to their founder. When Chapman died, so did the real Lotus. Now what's left is only a name.

[FIAT1]

INDYCAR: Dragon Racing Sues Lotus; Signing With Chevy? (http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/indycar-dragon-racing-sues-lotus-signing-with-chevy/)

Great news fo Sebastien.

[Jag_Warrior]

^^^

I agree. I've said before that Lotus is one of those companies that is completely tied to their founder. When Chapman died, so did the real Lotus. Now what's left is only a name.

I very much agree with this. Even when he sold his share of the automotive company, he still had some involvement, from what I've read. But once he died, his spirit seemed to leave every facet of the company(s)... both racing and automotive.

[00steven]

Lots of lawsuits on the way.

[Mark in Oshawa]

It is a mess, and I wish the Series had found some way of putting up a performance clause. If no engines by a set date, then the teams were to be free to find new suppliers. I just think the engine issues and the speed of the rollout for them has really hampered the credibility of this season. This pains me, because I am enjoying this year more than previous years...probably I have enjoyed things as much now as anything going back to the 90's...except for Lotus giving someone like Sebastien Bourdais a dog engine. Some of these teams probably hope Bourdais never does get a good engine because he has been damn quick with the dog.

[beachbum]

It is a mess, and I wish the Series had found some way of putting up a performance clause. If no engines by a set date, then the teams were to be free to find new suppliers. I just think the engine issues and the speed of the rollout for them has really hampered the credibility of this season. This pains me, because I am enjoying this year more than previous years...probably I have enjoyed things as much now as anything going back to the 90's...except for Lotus giving someone like Sebastien Bourdais a dog engine. Some of these teams probably hope Bourdais never does get a good engine because he has been damn quick with the dog.
If the only problem with the Lotus situation was performance, the problems would be bad, but perhaps tolerable. But they have been blowing up with some regularity (according to TSO, 14 engines used already) and the teams can't get engines to test, so they haven't done any significant testing. A real no-win situation. Considering how many engines they claimed to have built, do they even have enough left to get through May with a single car? (I discount Alesi as that just doesn't seem like a serious effort)

You have to feel for HVM and Simona as they they don't have anyone to race as they are now a class of one. Somehow, I see a Honda in the back of that car after Indy (or at Indy)

[Phoenixent]

The biggest issue I see is that Lotus promised under their MOU to supply two chassis to Dragon Racing. If that's the case how many other teams were suppose to get chassis from Lotus to run their motors? I see a lot of lawsuits coming down the pipeline and I said it earlier in this thread that Lotus would be gone before Indy. We are weeks away and two teams (3 cars) are looking for a motor to put in their DW12's as Lotus will be missing.....

[Nikki Katz]

Hmm, will Indy be the last race for Lotus? I hope that the remaining three full time cars get proper engine deals and aren't just dropped.

[00steven]

I think Lotus is gone after Indy.

[Phoenixent]

I think Lotus is gone after Indy.

I don't think there will be a Lotus in the field when the green flag drops at Indy......

[00steven]

I don't think there will be a Lotus in the field when the green flag drops at Indy......

That's highly possible too.

*sigh*

[Chris R]

You will know the end has come when Alesi switches to a "Chonda" at the last minute.....