Regional Rally Cars (RRC)

[Gordini]

Are there 2 RRC made, Mini and Fiesta or more. Will rally in norway be first speed comparing between RRC and S2000, or have we more?

[Mirek]

We had plenty of those last season with several Minis running all over the Europe, Fiesta RRC with Solowow in one event in Poland. Currently You have one in Jänner rally with Václav Pech and Mini.

[Gordini]

So RRC slower than S2000? Why is that?

[mousti]

And the Mini in Ypres with Snijers at the wheel!

Slower because of the Restrictor.. So no change atm for getting it 31 or 30.5 mm

[Gordini]

How much hp have the RRC, ford and mini?

[Sulland]

What are really the differences btw these 3 cars ?
Can a Class 1 car be used in anything else than WRC?

Class WRC : 1.6 T engine with WRC kit
Class 1: S2000-Rally: 1.6 T engine with a 33mm restrictor
Class 2: S2000-Rally: 1.6T engine with a 30mm restrictor

[OldF]

How much hp have the RRC, ford and mini?

260 ps by Gerard Quinn.

Ford Fiesta RRC - Regional Rally Car in action in Cumbria thi... on Twitpic (http://twitpic.com/5n2f0q)

[Sulland]

So what os the difference btw the 33mm S2000 and the WRC engine and car ?

[mousti]

Flywheel, windows, bigger spoiler etc..

[Mirek]

Something like...

260Hp / (pi*30*30/4) * (pi*33*33/4) = 315Hp.

It's just a rough estimation based only on restrictor size. Works car would probably have more.

[Sulland]

Is the different flywheel doing anything with the power or torque compared to the WRCar?
I guess that it is the 30mm version that will be used as regional car.
If that is the case, what do we then call the 33mm car? Class 1 car?

[dimviii]

Is the different flywheel doing anything with the power or torque compared to the WRCar?
I guess that it is the 30mm version that will be used as regional car.

lighter flywheel at wrc car affects the engine revving.It is easier to rev from low revs.
yes 30mm is at regional cars

[OldF]

What are really the differences btw these 3 cars ?
Can a Class 1 car be used in anything else than WRC?

Class WRC : 1.6 T engine with WRC kit
Class 1: S2000-Rally: 1.6 T engine with a 33mm restrictor
Class 2: S2000-Rally: 1.6T engine with a 30mm restrictor

The Class 1 car is only mentioned in the WRC sporting regulations so it’s only for WRC rallies. I see it as option to use a RRC car with a 33 mm restrictor without the necessary to change the rear wing, why wheel etc.

[Sulland]

The Class 1 car is only mentioned in the WRC sporting regulations so it’s only for WRC rallies. I see it as option to use a RRC car with a 33 mm restrictor without the necessary to change the rear wing, why wheel etc.

That makes sense, so you could do 1 WRC a year in your RRC, if the budget allows.

[Mirek]

The Class 1 car is only mentioned in the WRC sporting regulations so it’s only for WRC rallies. I see it as option to use a RRC car with a 33 mm restrictor without the necessary to change the rear wing, why wheel etc.

For that we don't need special class. It can run among WRC. How many class 1 cars will enter any rally during the upcoming season? One, two?

[Sulland]

Østberg and Mikkelsen were pretty equal on snow with the two cartypes. Looks promising so far for other series were RRC and S2000 are allowed in same class.

[kober]

What exactly is the difference between RRC and S2000? Is it just the engine (1.6 T 30mm vs 2.0 NA)? Both are FIA Class 2, if I'm not mistaken.

[Mirek]

In terms of rules yes the only difference is engine.

[Tom206wrc]

So Citroën is also developping a DS3 RRC that will debut in competition at Rally Kuwait in the hands of Al Attiyah :confused:

[Mirek]

To homologate DS3 WRC Citroën had to present ten sets of DS3 S2000 parts to FIA. That was prior WRC homologation, precisely before 1st January 2011 (probably around November 2010). WRC is only an additional kit to S2000 homologation so this car already exists for more than a year. It has just never competed.

[Co-driven]

I think Nasser will start with a Peugeot 207 S2000 prepared and assisted by Kronos.

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/s720x720/422023_151766724939312_151144361668215_215689_1922 88618_n.jpg

[mousti]

Why u think? It's all on the pic so it's sure :D

[Sulland]

To homologate DS3 WRC Citroën had to present ten sets of DS3 S2000 parts to FIA. That was prior WRC homologation, precisely before 1st January 2011 (probably around November 2010). WRC is only an additional kit to S2000 homologation so this car already exists for more than a year. It has just never competed.

The question is if they ever would like to sell one if a customer calls and want to buy one ?

[Mirek]

If I'm not mistaken they are obliged to sell any part within three months after homologation.

[Sulland]

New RRC vs S2000 fight in Norway this weekend.

[Co-driven]

New RRC vs S2000 fight in Norway this weekend.

But this fight happened before, at the Moutain Rally, right?

[kober]

So Citroën is also developping a DS3 RRC that will debut in competition at Rally Kuwait in the hands of Al Attiyah :confused: According to Rally of Lebanon entry list (http://www.rallyoflebanon.com/pdf/ROL-entry-list-2012.pdf) DS3 RRC will debut on the 7th of September.

[Tom206wrc]

Thanks Kober, curious to follow it with Al Attiyah at the wheels :cool:

[Tom206wrc]

Pics of Al Attiyah's DS3 RRC :confused:

[Tom206wrc]

Al Attiyah forfait of Rally Lebanon it seems :mark: looks like the Citroën DS3 RRC isn't ready yet :rolleyes:

[kober]

The withdrawal was due to security issues - apparently the Qatari state asked their citizens not to travel to Lebanon. See the Lebanese Motorsport (http://www.motorsportforums.com/americas-asia-pacific-african-rallying/142285-lebanese-motorsport.html) topic.

[Tom206wrc]

Pics of Thierry Neuville testing the future DS3 RRC :cool:
La DS3 RRC en tests avec Neuville (Photos) (http://www.rallye-sport.fr/la-ds3-rrc-en-tests-avec-neuville/)

[Tom206wrc]

Pieter Tsjoen to debut the Citroën DS3 RRC at Rallye du Valais by end of october ;)

[kober]

A question to Mirek, if I may: how come Citroen will only now homologate the DS3 "RRC", as writen at the bottom of the red box here (http://mag.gpweek.com/?iid=69024#folio=17)? Shouldn't they homologated it at the same time as the WRC kit, on 01.01.2011?

Thanks!

[Mirek]

Frankly I don't get the situation.

[makinen_fan]

The DS3 RRC is about to debut in Switzerland at the end of October according to GPWeek. What rally is that? Any ideas of driver? Neuville maybe?

[Mirek]

ERC Rally du Valais, driver Belgian champion Pieter Tsjoen.

[Tom206wrc]

Apparently Nasser Al Attiyah in Fiesta RRC at Jordan Rally :confused:

[stefanvv]

Apparently Nasser Al Attiyah in Fiesta RRC at Jordan Rally :confused:

I think it was announced already 2 weeks ago (when Citroen had press conference) he will made Rallies in middle east with Fiesta RRC and Rally Raid next year too.

[rallye-vid]

Yep, Citroen was too slow with the DS3 RRC so Nasser called Malcolm and got the fiesta ;)

[kober]

According to autoklub.pl (http://rajdy.autoklub.pl/news/z-wrc-zrobiono-rrc,45562), the DS3 RRC that Tsjoen will use in Rallye International du Valais is the WRC (without the kit, obviously) that was used by Loeb in majority of 2011, and by Neuville in five rallies earlier this year.
Does it mean that Citroen don't really have those ten S2000 sets required for homologation?

[Tom206wrc]

Strange...it's still written "S2000" for the DS3 on entry/start list :s

[Sulland]

According to autoklub.pl (http://rajdy.autoklub.pl/news/z-wrc-zrobiono-rrc,45562), the DS3 RRC that Tsjoen will use in Rallye International du Valais is the WRC (without the kit, obviously) that was used by Loeb in majority of 2011, and by Neuville in five rallies earlier this year.
Does it mean that Citroen don't really have those ten S2000 sets required for homologation?
They probably have the sets, but not 10 ready RRCs standing around. Since It is the same car as WRC but some parts changed. That was the whole idea remember, for nationa/regional drivers to be able to bolt on a WRC kit and do for instance their local WRC round.
smart idea, but cars too expensive to buy and run.

[Mirek]

Strange...it's still written "S2000" for the DS3 on entry/start list :s

Why strange? S2000 1.6T is still S2000 according to FIA.

[Mirek]

According to autoklub.pl (http://rajdy.autoklub.pl/news/z-wrc-zrobiono-rrc,45562), the DS3 RRC that Tsjoen will use in Rallye International du Valais is the WRC (without the kit, obviously) that was used by Loeb in majority of 2011, and by Neuville in five rallies earlier this year.?

Yes, the car was used as WRC but that's normal. The S2000/WRC conversion is just about the optional WRC kit.

[tolis]

According to autoklub.pl (http://rajdy.autoklub.pl/news/z-wrc-zrobiono-rrc,45562), the DS3 RRC that Tsjoen will use in Rallye International du Valais is the WRC (without the kit, obviously) that was used by Loeb in majority of 2011, and by Neuville in five rallies earlier this year.

Indeed... eWRC-results.com - Rally cars history (http://www.ewrc-results.com/carinfo.php?cid=12&spz=270)

[Tom206wrc]

Why strange? S2000 1.6T is still S2000 according to FIA.


Strange because it's not written "WRC" :mark:

[dupanton]

Strange because it's not written "WRC" :mark:

That's because it is a S2000 and not a WRC...

[Sulland]

That's because it is a S2000 and not a WRC...

Yes yes, but but! According to the regs they are all built via S2000 on their way to S2000 NA, 1600T or WRC.

But for us that reads the start and resultlists it would be nice if they were all specified on what sibling we are talking about in each case. Cant be that hard!

[Mirek]

The only problem is Fiesta where both 2.0 NA and RRC are officially S2000 and sometimes You don't know which car it is until You see it. In all other cases it is clear from results. DS3 S2000 or WRC, nothing else. Mini S2000 or WRC, nothing else etc.

[PLuto]

Yes yes, but but! According to the regs they are all built via S2000 on their way to S2000 NA, 1600T or WRC.

But for us that reads the start and resultlists it would be nice if they were all specified on what sibling we are talking about in each case. Cant be that hard!

With lot of results group and not so precise people working on it it is not easy to find which car is using which driver. For example, Tamrazov crashed on San Marino in first stage. Was he starting with atmospheric or turbo car? He has both in garage and almost no photo... He was planning tu use turbo, but finally he used atmospheric. But I got the info after the event, that he changed the plans. And this was event with lot of "virtual" spectators and photos...

[mousti]

Tsjoen with DS3

TSJOEN PIETER - CITROËN DS3 RRC - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b57NixHvA3Y&feature=share)

[Tom206wrc]

Interesting rumour: Andrea Crugnola could run Monte-Carlo 2013 with the Citroën DS3 RRC(instead of the scheduled DS3 R3T as winner of italian CRT) :confused:

[kober]

Why isn't he running the DS3 in the WRC-trim?

[Tom206wrc]

...so Robert Kubica in WRC(WRC2)on a DS3 RRC under the Abu Dhabi Citroën Racing colours :bounce:

[kober]

With Fabia R5 not being reading for another year or so, is there any chance that we will ever see Polo RRC in action?

[PLuto]

I think there will be no Polo RRC or Fabia RRC in the future...

[Plan9]

I think there will be no Polo RRC or Fabia RRC in the future...

What will they build instead?

[tommeke_B]

What will they build instead?
What they are building now. :) WRC (VW) and R5 (Skoda).

[kober]

My question regarding Polo RRC was fueled by the fact that the car is there and competing, although with a wider restrictor and a larger wing. I was just wondering if VW might feel the need to upgrade their class 2 weapon, and release a chassis or two (similar as Citroen did with their RRC) to somebody with a rather big man-purse? Just to have a chance against Fiesta R5s, because Fabia S2000 is getting old and Fabia R5 won't be ready for some time.

[liposh]

kober: I like the way You think. Yes, Polo RRC spare parts must exist (because of homologation). Let´s say Polo WRC is best car so Polo RRC should be strong enought to compete with R5 cars. On other hand it is very expensive to run RRC car and because it is business first of all, I don´t expect VW plans to do that. Moreover you need really 1st class driver. Somebody like Kubica or even faster.

[RICARDO75]

This was September last year in Finland

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