Mexico 2012

[logic]

for a second/supporting driver he is proper...

you are such a piece of work.

[Tom206wrc]

Why doesn´t this happen to Citroens?


Because traditionnal french Mafia is watching for them :D

[sollitt]

I'm sure that if JML had finished the stage and taken 20+ seconds out of Hirvenon all of you who are criticising him would be singing a different tune. We are lucky to have a driver who's able, and prepared, to drive on the limit and raise the hairs on our necks.
Sometimes it doesn't work out. That's the price of a little excitement.

[N.O.T]

you are such a piece of work.

One of a kind.

[MikeD]

you are such a piece of work.

And so are you!

[tmx]

I just hope since Latvala is behind now, unless Petter Ott and Matt all step asides for Latvala, that Malcolm would finally both the pair fight for victory. I know its different with Loeb, but manu title is still possible.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

on Twitpic (http://twitpic.com/8v1o9b) Car doesnt look so bad ...

[logic]

I just hope since Latvala is behind now, unless Petter Ott and Matt all step asides for Latvala, that Malcolm would finally both the pair fight for victory. I know its different with Loeb, but manu title is still possible.

Not gonna happen , he is out of the rally , FIA deemed the cage to be unsafe to continue.

[BleAivano]

Because traditionnal french Mafia is watching for them :D

or more likely they made their cars of some military über top secret material that look/feels/weighs just like
regular car metal but is like 1000 times stronger. ;)

[N.O.T]

I'm sure that if JML had finished the stage and taken 20+ seconds out of Hirvenon all of you who are criticising him would be singing a different tune. We are lucky to have a driver who's able, and prepared, to drive on the limit and raise the hairs on our necks.
Sometimes it doesn't work out. That's the price of a little excitement.

To push on that long stage was pointless all along... even if he was 1 minute faster than the cruising citroens, he would not have any tyres left to fight in the power stage...

it was a stupid mistake from whatever point you look at it...

[Juha_Koo]

Perkeleen perkele.

[charro_wrc]

Some interesting points, Australia in 2009 had a stone throwing incidence, they were environmentalists who didn't want the WRC in the region. This was the main reason for the event moving to Coffs in 2011. Maybe don't run stage 9 next year if its someone who lives there, if it just spectators or something, then they will just go to another stage.

I think it could help for some time, but if the organizators don't control the rally drivers limit speed during the reece it will be matter of time to have the same problems in other places, from my personal point of view, to fix the problem root they have to find the way to avoid accidents during the reece, as i told you before, may be they should close the rally road during the reece, other choice could be taken by the fia, making sporting penalties (in time, no money) for rally drivers who don't respect reece speed limits using the gps system to prove they passed to fast in some place, by other hand Mexican rally organizators should be pay for damages done on the belonging of people who lives inside of the rally roads to avoid hard feelings, but to be honest, that is so far to happen, because rally organizators only say "any accident during the reece is responsability of the rally driver if they don't respect speed limits", that is their easy exit of the problem.

I will give you another example, now about angry spectators, (me included), I have to put clear that of course i love the rally, and I would never do nothing against rally drivers because I understand some times **** happens, but other people do not think in the same way, on SS5, (same stage than SS9) I suffered a little accident following silly marshall orders.

I arrived 1 hour before the competitors pass but police did not allow me get in the spectators parking lot with my car arguing that they were following orders, i had to park my charromovil on the tarmac motorway and they let me pass walking, I walked 2.2 kilometers on the road, but arriving to the end of the stage, marshalls did not allow me continue walking on rally road even when there was 30 minutes remaining to the cero car pass, marshalls order to me walk out the rally road, but it was more dangerous walk over irregular surfase, and that stupid criteria was applied to every person, (including Latvala's Father and his Friends), if you wanted to see the cars before the end of the stage you have to escalate (climb) the montain, it was more dangerous than avoid the risk to be hit for a car that was 30 minutes away to pass for the place that i was!, so the problem was that I felt by accident in the stones, I hurt a lot, i took me several minutes to get up again, and the same marshall that did not allow me continue walking on rally road send a police that saw what happend to me, but he came to me smiling and asking to me " what happen? ", I got so anger and i did not acept the police man "help" even I recognize i insulted both, policeman and marshall that saw everyting, now i recognize i shouldn't done that, i offer apologies to them, but i lost my head because i got so angry.

Nothing happend to me, (only a heavy fall) but my camara got damage, from my point of view, rally organizators should pay the fixing of my photo camera, because i suffered the little accident following their silly instructions, but I know they are not going to pay for nothing (same case to the damage on belonging of people that live inside of rally route), even if the rally organizators pay my camera fixing the damage is done, I've tryed to recover all my pictures that I took on Day 1 but compact flash memory got damage too, and all my effort to take my own pictures was lost, and i lost the chance to continue taking pictures on day 2 and day 3, that hurts me more that the hit, I was wondering if me, or any person would have a serious accident following stupid instructions to climb difficult stones shouldn't be blame the rally organizators?

[J4MIE]

I'm sure that if JML had finished the stage and taken 20+ seconds out of Hirvenon all of you who are criticising him would be singing a different tune. We are lucky to have a driver who's able, and prepared, to drive on the limit and raise the hairs on our necks.
Sometimes it doesn't work out. That's the price of a little excitement.

That's an argument, but it's the usual "Sunday driving" of an event where the guys ahead can give him nearly a minute and still be secure in their positions and manage to get to the finish without any excitement.

If he had managed to finish 20 seconds ahead then I would say well done to him, but I think it would take more than that to impress me....

[Tom206wrc]

Miss Karlsson didn't reach the end of SS22 ;(

Edit: she lost 28 minutes in fact :mark:

[RAS007]

Latvala retires.


Jesus.


Jesus has got nothing to do with it.

[garais22]

Is there LIVE video to Power Stage?

[Tom206wrc]

Power stage running :cool:

[BleAivano]

I'm sure that if JML had finished the stage and taken 20+ seconds out of Hirvenon all of you who are criticising him would be singing a different tune.
We are lucky to have a driver who's able, and prepared, to drive on the limit and raise the hairs on our necks.
Sometimes it doesn't work out. That's the price of a little excitement.

Well sollitt the problem is that it would not have mattered. JML would still have been a minute and half behind Hirvonen but with very worn tires.
For the championship pov it would have been much better if JML would have guarded his 3rd and conserved his tires for the power stage.
In the end it would have been much much larger benifit then taking 20-30 seconds from a lead that was almost 2 minutes.

Of course JML should've pushed if he would have been like 30-40 seconds behind Hirvonen. But he wasn't in this case.

And we all like drivers that can drive fast but they also need to be able to decide when its wiser to back off then to push.
Since this is rally and they don't award points to drivers with a hairrising driving style but only to those who actually show up at the finish line.

If you want a sport that awards style rather then results try high diving or some of the freestyle skiing events.

[Evian]

Ramona finished now!
Stagetime on SS22 - 1:05:06.5!

[BleAivano]

Miss Karlsson didn't reach the end of SS22 ;(

Edit: she lost 28 minutes in fact :mark:

She did but had lots of problems towards the end it seems. over 10 min behind the second to last slowest time.

[Allyc85]

FFS Jari sort your head out! Hes so bloody fast, but one slip of the mind like in Monte and thats it game over!

[Tanelv]

Well done Ott! Nice performance throughout the weekend from him.

[MikeD]

Wonder if PSolberg will push or if he is asked to play it safe to collect Manu points?

[N.O.T]

Ostberg on par with Tanak at the end.

[Tom206wrc]

Soon, Solberg, Hirvonen and Loeb will get their Power Stage times ;)

[N.O.T]

Wonder if PSolberg will push or if he is asked to play it safe to collect Manu points?

the Manufacturer title is lost...

[dimviii]

Expect Loeb Mikko 1-2 at power stage

[Crocone]

you sayd that hirvonen was a sick dog, now you say that he is a proper driver, make up your mind ;)

That's a good one.

[EightGear]

Jesus has got nothing to do with it.


Haha, yes I know, I'm sorry. Just a bit frustrated.

[bluuford]

Nobre is stopped on Stage 23. Outside the right hand corner approximately 2 km from the start

[N.O.T]

No risks from Hirvonen...

[Doon]

One of the guys on WRR, when talking about Solberg on the Power Stage, just said 'there will be a very good atmosphere in the Ford camp, and a good party tonight'........I don't think so. I'm not sure that Peter's Power Stage win will make them feel any better about Latvala's disaster. What planet is he on?

[Viking]

PS wins PS

[dimviii]

2 points for Seb.Well done

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Petter wins Power Stage and 3rd Overall...

[MikeD]

Ahhh great day. Double win for Yvan Muller in WTCC and a Loeb win in WRC. Can't ask for more :D

[Barreis]

How can JML be leading driver, 3 starts/2 DNFs?!

[Tom206wrc]

Solberg wins the Power Stage ;)

[RAS007]

How can JML be leading driver, 3 starts/2 DNFs?!

I would agree. I think Malcolm needs to move Petter to team leader, he may not be faster, but is more consistent by far.

[MikeD]

How can JML be leading driver, 3 starts/2 DNFs?!

...and 21 points behind his team-mate. Let's hope Petter takes over as team-leader.

[N.O.T]

Safety first for Loeb as well..

Overall it was a mediocre event mainly thanks to Mr latvala and the stupid idiot spectators.

Very important win for Loeb and a disaster for Latvala... Hirvonen is the ideal 2nd driver, i bet he will stay in this sport for many many years, although he might never win a title... he is a vlauable asset to any team.

Very happy for the progress of Tanak and Neuvile also showed very promissing pace.

[Rallyper]

Solberg now will be no1 in Ford. Nothing else can be more sure. JML has screwed up one time too many.

[A FONDO]

Loeb 66
Hirvonen 50
Solberg 47
Ostberg 27/28
Latvala 26
Novikov 21
Sordo 18
Tanak 15/14
Al-Attiyah 8
Delecour 8
Araujo 7
Henning 6
Campana 6
Ogier 4
Sandall 4
Prokop 4
Block 2
Brynildsen 1
Trivino 1
==============
Citroen WRT 108
Ford WRT 70
M-Sport WRT 38

[EuroTroll]

What difference does it make who the "team leader" is?

[Tom206wrc]

What difference does it make who the "team leader" is?



For the team orders to come I guess :p :

[dimviii]

Congrats to Loeb Mikko, and Citroen Sport for being professional at each level.

Like Abbring,and Neuvilles speed at least for 1st day for young Belgian.

[EuroTroll]

For the team orders to come I guess :p :

Booo!!! ;)

[Viking]

So....

1. Sebastien Loeb 66
2. Mikko Hirvonen 50
3. Petter Solberg 47
4. Mads Østberg 28
5. Jari-Matti Latvala 26
6. Evgeny Novikov 21
7. Dani Sordo 18

[Viking]

Petter for team leader and..... Mads as #2 :D

In two rallys he has more points than JML in 3...

[Mintexmemory]

There needs to be a 'dislike' button on the forum for posts like this....
:grenade:

[Mintexmemory]

How can JML be leading driver, 3 starts/2 DNFs?!

Because PS has 3 starts -No Wins!!!

[Sulland]

Why not have equal driver status, and in the end of the season, if needed you support the best one.
Stupid to have a number 1 driver in a team with two top drivers from the start in my opinion. These guys do not deserve to have that extra pressure, it can mess up your head.

[RAS007]

Because PS has 3 starts -No Wins!!!

...and is 21 points ahead of the "team leader" after only 3 rounds.

[N.O.T]

It is still very early in the championship....but Latvala is making this very easy so far...

Some people say that he signed already with VW... good luck with that.

Promoting Solberg to No1 will not change things...it is not going to make Solberg any faster.

Latvala has nothing to lose from now on...he can attack each rally with no tommorow attitude and see what it brings...

On the other hand the Citroen team can relax and enjoy each event...thye have no pressure.

[Mise]

Latvala has nothing to lose from now on...he can attack each rally with no tommorow attitude and see what it brings...


I think he just did it.

[Iskald]

I would agree. I think Malcolm needs to move Petter to team leader, he may not be faster, but is more consistent by far.

That will simply not happen. And even as a norwegian I have no problems understanding it...

[RAS007]

That will simply not happen. And even as a norwegian I have no problems understanding it...

I agree it won't happen, but it should. Why do you think it won't happen?

[rallye-sport]

Third Day -> Photos Rallye du Mexique 2012 (http://www.rallye-sport.fr/photos-rallye-du-mexique-2012/)

http://www.rallye-sport.fr/wp-content/gallery/mexique-2012/mexique5-056.jpg

http://www.rallye-sport.fr/wp-content/gallery/mexique-2012/mexique5-274.jpg

[dimviii]

Malcolms fault or Latvala? Feel free to discuss.

i doubt that Jari was his idea to attack while was 1,16 min behind Mikko.

[tolis]

So, after JML's roll the championship is over... :(

[Psycho!]

Guys just wait from the on board video....All these posts about the reason of the roll are pointless...Wait for a clearer picture!

[N.O.T]

what can cause a roll other than driver error ??

[N.O.T]

Malcolms fault or Latvala? Feel free to discuss.

i doubt that Jari was his idea to attack while was 1,16 min behind Mikko.

and why would malcom order Latvala to attack ?

[userwave]

and why would malcom order Latvala to attack ?


pressure from Ford to succeed this year or get ZERO funding from here on in ?

[sollitt]

If you want a sport that awards style rather then results try high diving or some of the freestyle skiing events. You, and others like you, are missing the point. This has nothing to do with style. It's about raw speed and a 'never say die' attitude. Champions have it.

When all is said and done, this sport is about speed. It is a race that ain't over until the flag drops. You can argue 'til the cows come home whose decision it was to push for a seemingly lost cause, you can argue the merits of the decision. But what you cannot argue is that Latvala is the only driver not sitting in a Citroen with any hope of a round win, let alone a championship.

And it'll be an exciting quest. Sydney or the bush ... Mars or bust. That's what gets people talking. That's why we're lucky to have Latvala and that's why he's #1 in the Ford.

What was the alternative? He drove at 90% to bring the car home in a predictable 3rd? What would you have had to talk about then?

[N.O.T]

pressure from Ford to succeed this year or get ZERO funding from here on in ?

the contract is for 3 years so...

Latvala had no reason to push for whatever reasons...it was plain stupid.

[EightGear]

pressure from Ford to succeed this year or get ZERO funding from here on in ?

With the risk of crashing? That would put even more pressure on M-Sport if it turned out bad (which it did).

[userwave]

the contract is for 3 years so...

Latvala had no reason to push for whatever reasons...it was plain stupid.

3 years , but can be broken at anytime, and you are absolutely right, Jari had zero reason and nothing to prove,
he really should learn from Loeb's "grown up" approach on how to gain results from events.

Latvala basically rolled himself out of any championship contention today.

[N.O.T]

What was the alternative? He drove at 90% to bring the car home in a predictable 3rd? What would you have had to talk about then?

you forget the part that Latvala ended his chances on day 1 and day 2 not on the big one....

on the big one he destoyed everything that was left... if he drove just to finish i think everyone would be consolidated by the fact that 3rd is a very nice place to be and gives good points for the championship.

His pace was good but why risk so much for a lost cause ??

Nobody accused him for pushing at the start of the event....

[N.O.T]

Latvala basically rolled himself out of any championship contention today.

it is still early to say that...

Taking a look at his results Latvala almost always had a very grim 1st part of any season and a very strong 2nd part..

the thing is that usually he loses everything very early and then tries to climb a very steep hill....

[Psycho!]

“I saw from far away Novikov’s car and I was very confused,” said the Finn. “I first thought the car was on the road and I made a movement to avoid it and my car went off and rolled. It took a lot to get it back on the road.”

[Barreis]

Just like ten times before. :D

[dimviii]

and why would malcom order Latvala to attack ?

dont know.Is Latvala drawing his/msport strategy alone?

[sollitt]

you forget the part that Latvala ended his chances on day 1 and day 2 not on the big one..... I don't forget anything. I celebrate watching an immensely talented driver giving it his all. That's what sport's about. So sometimes it ends in tears ... Get over it!

[BDunnell]

you forget the part that Latvala ended his chances on day 1 and day 2 not on the big one....

on the big one he destoyed everything that was left... if he drove just to finish i think everyone would be consolidated by the fact that 3rd is a very nice place to be and gives good points for the championship.

His pace was good but why risk so much for a lost cause ??

Nobody accused him for pushing at the start of the event....

On the one hand you consider the sport nowadays to be boring — on the other you criticise someone for pushing hard. What's it to be? It might have worked. It didn't. Where's the problem?

[userwave]

“I saw from far away Novikov’s car and I was very confused,” said the Finn. “I first thought the car was on the road and I made a movement to avoid it and my car went off and rolled. It took a lot to get it back on the road.”

sounds like Latvala was busy playing Angry Birds on his iPhone

[tolis]

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/428060_10150721133460733_206160890732_11621678_749 949699_n.jpg

[A.F.F.]

Congrats Loeb for another win. What can you say, the champion is so solid that everybody else has to push over the edge to keep up with him.

Mikko doing his job as solid.

Too bad for Latvala, I have to agree the title is gone for this year if miracles won't happen.

[janvanvurpa]

Loeb 66
Hirvonen 50
Solberg 47
Ostberg 27/28
Latvala 26
Novikov 21
Sordo 18
Tanak 15/14
Al-Attiyah 8
Delecour 8
Araujo 7
Henning 6
Campana 6
Ogier 4
Sandall 4
Prokop 4
Block 2
Brynildsen 1
Trivino 1
==============
Citroen WRT 108
Ford WRT 70
M-Sport WRT 38


Block surging into the points! Only 64 pts out of the lead with the rest of the season ahead.. Loeb must know is days are numbered!

[userwave]

I don't forget anything. I celebrate watching an immensely talented driver giving it his all. That's what sport's about. So sometimes it ends in tears ... Get over it!


sure he was giving it his all, sure he is talented, but if your not at the end of the last stage with a decent time, it's all for nothing.

consistency is everything, finishing even more so, nobody really cares how fast you were on a couple of stages if your not finishing events...

[janvanvurpa]

I don't forget anything. I celebrate watching an immensely talented driver giving it his all. That's what sport's about. So sometimes it ends in tears ... Get over it!

plus Juan.. vinna eller försvinna -----win or disappear.
One thing for sure, Latvala knows he can go faster... belief in yourself is critical. Knowing is better.

It ain't over till November.

[bluuford]

I just noticed that Tänak missed his first ever powerstage point by around 0.06 seconds :-) And without that 10 second penalty that he took to let Solberg and Latvala pass him on Day 1 he would have been 1.1 seconds behind Ostberg (both had one puncture). I am looking forward to further fights between these two in 2012 :-)

[BDunnell]

sure he was giving it his all, sure he is talented, but if your not at the end of the last stage with a decent time, it's all for nothing.

consistency is everything, finishing even more so, nobody really cares how fast you were on a couple of stages if your not finishing events...

Nothing? What about competing? On the 1983 1000 Lakes, Vatanen and Toivonen knew they couldn't really win in Manta 400s against the Quattros and 037s, yet they put on one of the most spectacular, exciting displays you could ever imagine. Both cars broke. By your reasoning, they should have just cruised round for a finish. Motorsport — sport in general — would be little without people giving it their all for, in the end, no reward.

[A FONDO]

I just noticed that Tänak missed his first ever powerstage point by around 0.06 seconds :-) And without that 10 second penalty that he took to let Solberg and Latvala pass him on Day 1 he would have been 1.1 seconds behind Ostberg (both had one puncture). I am looking forward to further fights between these two in 2012 :-)
Calm down a little. He can fight with Neuville but Novikov is far away for now.

[userwave]

Nothing? What about competing? On the 1983 1000 Lakes, Vatanen and Toivonen knew they couldn't really win in Manta 400s against the Quattros and 037s, yet they put on one of the most spectacular, exciting displays you could ever imagine. Both cars broke. By your reasoning, they should have just cruised round for a finish. Motorsport — sport in general — would be little without people giving it their all for, in the end, no reward.

then why not just fill the sport with "show people" like Ken Block who please crowds by selling logo's to kids and putting on drift and jump shows then?

[BDunnell]

then why not just fill the sport with "show people" like Ken Block who please crowds by selling logo's to kids and putting on drift and jump shows then?

I don't think you understand what I'm saying at all.

[Gherid_lacksGPS]

To say the title is out of reach for JML, this early on, is a bit premature. I too am curious about what the on board will show regarding the car avoidance. With that, however, it's an up hill battle from here.

It's hard for me to believe that he was given the go to push, and it's hard for me to believe that's what JML would do considering the lessons he's learned over the years. It's silly considering the circumstances and points at stake. Sacrifice a guaranteed chunk of drivers points and manufacturers points, behind over a minute from second, chasing a very consistant mikko? Come on. Doesn't make sense. Get the points, get out of there, get a kiss from your lady and fight again in Portugal while you're still only a few jabs away from contention.

[Franky]

then why not just fill the sport with "show people" like Ken Block who please crowds by selling logo's to kids and putting on drift and jump shows then?

You're comparing Latvala and Block? That's like comparing a F1 car with a bicycle, both have wheels.

WRC needs drivers who are ready to push and risk binning it, not do a solid drive and end up on a second place.

Now imagine this. The same 54km stage broadcasted live on TV. One version is what we saw today (everyone playing it safe), but remove the risky drive from Latvala - it would make it too interesting. The second version is where there are at least three drivers going flat out on such a long stage, second-in-second race. Now tell me, which is more attractive to the audience. If you say the first, then we might as well flush WRC as a sport down the toilet.

[BDunnell]

You're comparing Latvala and Block?

Worse than that, he was actually comparing Vatanen and Toivonen with Block.

[Martin Luijk]

For the ones who don't have twitter, a tweet of Hirvonen: "Really happy with 2nd, wasn't able to challenge Seb but getting hang of car on gravel, going to be a good year, i can feel it... tequila!" It's a funny guy. And I think he's right. That Citroën is so much better than the Ford (only not on ice).

[N.O.T]

That Citroën is so much better than the Ford (only not on ice).

hmmmm... so far this year i think the cars do not have have any difference...apart from the drivers.

Latvala seems to be quite fast, same goes for Loeb....

[Gherid_lacksGPS]

The fiesta is one hell of a car, make no mistake.

[Francis44]

I think there is not much difference in the cars as some think. Hirvonnen finished very well but his pace isn't much improved from last year, perhaps it's just Latvala who can't control himself.

[Josti]

Nothing? What about competing? On the 1983 1000 Lakes, Vatanen and Toivonen knew they couldn't really win in Manta 400s against the Quattros and 037s, yet they put on one of the most spectacular, exciting displays you could ever imagine. Both cars broke. By your reasoning, they should have just cruised round for a finish. Motorsport — sport in general — would be little without people giving it their all for, in the end, no reward.

As Vatanen once said "Life isn't about the perfect results, that's boring".

[Francis44]

Novikov crash is on WRC.com and it was quite a big one.

[rbatista82]

More photos from México:
SuperMotores | Rally, Fórmula 1, WRC (http://www.supermotores.net/sm/fotos.asp?id=266)
SuperMotores | Rally, Fórmula 1, WRC (http://www.supermotores.net/sm/fotos.asp?id=267)
SuperMotores | Rally, Fórmula 1, WRC (http://www.supermotores.net/sm/fotos.asp?id=268)
http://www.supermotores.net/images/galeria/Mexico_3_201200002.jpg
http://www.supermotores.net/images/galeria/Mexico_3_201200011.jpg
http://www.supermotores.net/images/galeria/Mexico_3_201200016.jpg

[userwave]

I don't think you understand what I'm saying at all.


no i do, was just trying to create some scandal :)

[bluuford]

Calm down a little. He can fight with Neuville but Novikov is far away for now.

What? Who? Where :-) Did I missed something?

[Francis44]

More than anyone Latvala feels bad.....

View image: 419330 10150582603565754 243641655753 9490515 17 (http://postimage.org/image/m4gbjd40r/) .

[tolis]

Novikov crash is on WRC.com and it was quite a big one.
http://distilleryimage4.instagram.com/873b92866bcb11e181bd12313817987b_7.jpg

[Gherid_lacksGPS]

In all fairness, the difference between Vatanen at the 83' 1000 lakes, and Latvala at 12' Mexico is that Vatanen wasn't in contention - that i know of - to begin with, he had nothing to lose. Latvala was running strong to start, had issues, then fought back again with a comfortable podium finish spot, with no chance of catching Mikko, unless it was handed to him with drama.

Yeah, every time I see a vid or photo of JML after a fumble I feel bad for him. The kid has wicked heart and puts a lot of pressure on himself to succeed. Definitely world champ one day.

[rallyfiend]

http://distilleryimage4.instagram.com/873b92866bcb11e181bd12313817987b_7.jpg

With all the bits missing they might save some money on the return airfreight bill.

[N.O.T]

external view.....

quite a crash...

i apologise if they have the video in wrc.com i cannot view wrc.com videos..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0H7Q3pZics

[bluuford]

Ahaa..that is why his GPS dot litterally disappeared from the map. Seems that the GPS transmitter was practically destroyed.

[janvanvurpa]

I think there is not much difference in the cars as some think. Hirvonnen finished very well but his pace isn't much improved from last year, perhaps it's just Latvala who can't control himself.

I agree on the car thing. EVERY single part must be shown on the Homologation forms. Dimensions, sizes, lengths, weights.... And so many parts or modifications are very strictly limited t.ex, wheelhousing dimensions, wheel size/width, and more than that, EVERYBODY probably has a very good idea of the set ups---you boys don't think that they don't study and analyze the others? I was only local clubbie type guy in rally and I looked at everything I could on "works" cars, still do to this day .
In any case the differences after 4 hours are mere hundredths of 1 % between the drivers who are real drivers (and not tourists, or Inter-net Stars).

Think what you're saying when you say "The Citroen IS SOOOOOOOOOOOOO Much better!
And yet Seb Baby only beats everybody by less than 1%??

No no no. Pobrecito por pobre Latvala today. He went a little crazy. It happens.... He knows how to go fast and has to ---sheet I don't know the word in my own mother tongue...hålla i eller behärska sig lite....

I really don't think you guys who have never been really high level drivers ---or riders---know how hard it is to hold back...
Self consciousness/awareness----when driving really hard or focusing really hard, can break the concentration.. We've all seen people make mistakes too, even when cruising.. (I cannot say how many times I had fingers, toes, teeth, nose etc broken from rocks or impact when I was a high level racers (moto-cross) and not even been aware till I pull up to the service rig and somebody points out blood on my shirt or gloves...then its "Oh, that's odd...."

"everybody knows how they could have saved the ship.......
once it sank" old Italian Proverb.

[Juha_Koo]

Novikov had broken the roof went completely earlier on the stage and the car was full of dust, maybe he was distracted because of that.

There was no triangle or warning when Latvala arrived to the place... Well, I haven't seen the onboards of the seven cars which passed the place prior to Latvala, maybe they also didn't have warning and had no problems. JM just happened to get scared because of Novikov's car, braked which caused him to slide off the line and we all know what then happened.

I would never do group Lotto with JM... :D

[Fri]

sunday pics:
rallysport.hu - Rally Guanajuato Mexico 2012 - Vasárnap (http://www.rallysport.hu/images/2012/photo/wrc/03_mexico/05_vasarnap/index.htm)

[BleAivano]

Nothing? What about competing? On the 1983 1000 Lakes, Vatanen and Toivonen knew they couldn't really win in Manta 400s against the Quattros and 037s, yet they put on one of the most spectacular, exciting displays you could ever imagine. Both cars broke. By your reasoning, they should have just cruised round for a finish. Motorsport — sport in general — would be little without people giving it their all for, in the end, no reward.

Sure if it was the start of the rally i would agree with you, but not when there is only three stages remaning. If Loeb or Hirvononen would suffer a break down or
a flat, i am sure that Latvala would be able to catch them anyway.

But do you consider it worth risking everything for such small difference in points. If JML had secured 3rd he would mist likely
have won the ps and in that case scored the same points as 2nd place would have given him.

[Hartusvuori]

“I saw from far away Novikov’s car and I was very confused,” said the Finn. “I first thought the car was on the road and I made a movement to avoid it and my car went off and rolled. It took a lot to get it back on the road.”

You get wrong picture from this quote. It wasn't that "far away". The second you see Novikov's car from the onboard video, the next second Latvala's car had hit the bank and rolled. There really wasn't time for pondering the options, yet I'm not saying that it wasn't JML's fault he ended with zero points. Many cars had passed Novikov's car before JML. Though, hitting a car on the road is something every competitor wants to avoid. Latvala hardly saw Novikov's car when he approached, but only a car. Still - no need to explain when the **** had already hit the fan (both proverbial and literal).

Looks like Latvala is now making a record in a sequence of DNFs and wins. Bring on Portugal!

[awake27]

Amateur shots of Novikov's and Latvala's crashes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPLU20C05Tc

Both lost the rear to the same place, hit the bank and rolled. He didn't need or have to take avoiding action, because he hadn't even got out of the fast corner in shape to reach the next left corner which was Novikov's car on the sideroad.

The main thing of course, is that if he was warned by Giraudet earlier because it seems he was still going quite fast. Although if you sum-up all the quotes after Latvala probably got panicked.

[bluuford]

Official powerstage times:
http://www.rallymexico.com/files/rep/5.13_Official_Final_Classification_of_the_Power_St age.pdf

[MikeD]

Definitely world champ one day.

I seriously doubt that. He has done 85 rallies in a WRC car but has only won 6 events where most of them were down to road position or speciel events like Sweden or Finland. Despite so many years in the sport he is not a proven consistent winner and he continues to make rookie judgement errors like yesterday (everybody in here could tell that was he was doing was stupid).

And when he is fast he crashes, and when he is not fast he doesn't win. That combo doesn't win chanpionships...

[AndyRAC]

Not the way to win a Championship – he had a safe 3rd place in his pocket. Just get to the finish and take the points. When Loeb knows he can’t win, he accepts it and drives accordingly.....hence the 8 WRC Titles.
For all his faults, even McRae drove with more brains than this.

[Rallyper]

Nothing? What about competing? On the 1983 1000 Lakes, Vatanen and Toivonen knew they couldn't really win in Manta 400s against the Quattros and 037s, yet they put on one of the most spectacular, exciting displays you could ever imagine. Both cars broke. By your reasoning, they should have just cruised round for a finish. Motorsport — sport in general — would be little without people giving it their all for, in the end, no reward.

I was there, live. I can verify what they did. It was amazing watching them!!

[Rallyper]

About JML abrupt cancellation from the rally. Does FIA do active scrutineering during the rally? Wasn´t it FIA who forbid JML to continue? Or am I wrong in this matter?

[rallyfiend]

About JML abrupt cancellation from the rally. Does FIA do active scrutineering during the rally? Wasn´t it FIA who forbid JML to continue? Or am I wrong in this matter?

There are often FIA officials at stage ends to do quick checks of the cars.

In the case of this very long stage, they were probably there for safety reasons, to make sure no-one was re-entering the public highways with shabby, unroadworthy tyres, bits hanging off etc..

[Viking]

Fun facts from the press conference

Jarmo Lehtinen: Fifty-three pages of notes on the long stage
Daniel Elena commented 51 pages and Chris Patterson 96!

Chris Patterson "Ninety-six pages! I just keep reading them to the finish and hope I get there before Petter!"

Petter for sure want more details in his notes than most else...

[A.F.F.]

Fun facts from the press conference

Jarmo Lehtinen: Fifty-three pages of notes on the long stage
Daniel Elena commented 51 pages and Chris Patterson 96!

Chris Patterson "Ninety-six pages! I just keep reading them to the finish and hope I get there before Petter!"



Petter for sure want more details in his notes than most else...

"Right, tightens, 200, crest, look at that view, left, opens, beautiful brickwall to the right, those flowers need watering, 300, crest......"

[Gard]

Fun facts from the press conference

Jarmo Lehtinen: Fifty-three pages of notes on the long stage
Daniel Elena commented 51 pages and Chris Patterson 96!

Chris Patterson "Ninety-six pages! I just keep reading them to the finish and hope I get there before Petter!"

Petter for sure want more details in his notes than most else...

Hilarious comment. That one will be a classic

[Viking]

"Right, tightens, 200, crest, look at that view, left, opens, beautiful brickwall to the right, those flowers need watering, 300, crest......"

just as(s) an example, not easy to get it all right

should have been, 5 left, full moon, tightens...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGCR994ap_A&feature=related

[charro_wrc]

Hello:

I send you ower own Rally Mexico video day1, made by Tunko and Charroman


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1uEhsH0IqE

[Juha_Koo]

Chris Patterson "Ninety-six pages! I just keep reading them to the finish and hope I get there before Petter!"

Petter for sure want more details in his notes than most else...

200 and line into short flat six left over crest, slow 120, right four tightens don't cut two minus, opens long and tightens half long into hairpin left double tightens neat.

[Barreis]

Must say that I'm dissapointed with Atkinson (also expected at least one off from him).

[Rallyper]

How about team radio in the Latvala/Novikov situation? Didn´t they warn? Or wasn´t it any radioconnection at the time?

Obviously no one did warn JML (or the people sent out "didn´t do their job") and that made some big changes in the rally. Pity!

[Barreis]

How about team radio in the Latvala/Novikov situation? Didn´t they warn? Or wasn´t it any radioconnection at the time?

Obviously no one did warn JML (or the people sent out "didn´t do their job") and that made some big changes in the rally. Pity!
Jari-Matti Lavala admits Evgeny Novikov's crash contributed to his own incident - WRC news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97979)

[uranium]

On board from Latvala car needed. It is difficult to say, what happened. But IMHO it was JML mistake, nothing more.

[makinen_fan]

on-board available here, at around 6:05

Review Rally Mexico 2012 Ford WRC - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtvDHVEeDDI&feature=g-all-u&context=G2a9d9afFAAAAAAAAFAA)

[dimviii]

The main thing of course, is that if he was warned by Giraudet earlier because it seems he was still going quite fast. Although if you sum-up all the quotes after Latvala probably got panicked.
according to this article he had warned from radio from Ford for Novikovs accident.Panic for somebody you already know?

The Finn was setting an incredible pace through the longest stage on the route when he went off the road in the same corner as Novikov - despite being warned about the Russian's crash by the Ford team.

Jari-Matti Lavala admits Evgeny Novikov's crash contributed to his own incident - WRC news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97979)

[dimviii]

lolololol


At the time when Latvala rolled during the longest stage of the rally this morning, he was more than 20 seconds up on his closest rival.

“We were the quickest combination here

we had both drivers leading the rally at one point,”

World Rally Championship - News - Ford upbeat despite Latvala exit (http://www.wrc.com/news/ford-upbeat-despite-latvala-exit/?fid=16289)


lolololololol

[tfp]

lolololol


At the time when Latvala rolled during the longest stage of the rally this morning, he was more than 20 seconds up on his closest rival.

“We were the quickest combination here

we had both drivers leading the rally at one point,”

World Rally Championship - News - Ford upbeat despite Latvala exit (http://www.wrc.com/news/ford-upbeat-despite-latvala-exit/?fid=16289)


lolololololol

"both drivers leading the rally STAGE" I think it was meant to say!

[dimviii]

"both drivers leading the rally STAGE" I think it was meant to say!

no, he mean after 1st ss when Petter was leading,and up to 4ss for Jari.

[Karukera]

lolololol I would second that. They're trying really hard with the Coué autosuggestion method. To the surreal i'd say.
Must be a different story behind the doors.

[RAS007]

bluuford, your ability to predict the future is uncanny..... :up:

- bluuford's prediction of what Malcolm would say:


Malcolm: "Jari drove very well, he was almost catching Hirvonen on the stage. Unluckily he was distracted by Novikovs co-driver who went to alert him where Evgeny rolled and Jari rolled a few meters from the same spot." :-P You are welcome Malcolm, you can use this quote, dont need to make up your own version .-P

- what Malcolm actually said on wrc.com:

Ford team boss Malcolm Wilson says Jari-Matti Latvala's speed on Rally Guanajuato Mexico provided plenty of consolation following the Finn's dramatic late exit from round three of the FIA World Rally Championship powered by Nokia.


Latvala and co-driver Miikka Anttila were fastest on eight special stages in Mexico with team-mates Petter Solberg and Chris Patterson topping the rally-closing Power Stage.
“We were the quickest combination here; Jari-Matti showed incredible speed,” said Wilson. “That’s obviously very encouraging for the future, as it’s the most competitive that we’ve ever been in Mexico. Even when we were first and second here a few years ago, we didn’t quite have the same pace as Citroen: this year we were faster. With five gravel rallies coming up, that’s clearly very positive.”
At the time when Latvala rolled during the longest stage of the rally this morning, he was more than 20 seconds up on his closest rival.
However, Ford did not go home empty-handed. A podium finish for Petter Solberg - his second of the year - has consolidated the Norwegian’s third place in the championship standings.
“It’s a good result for Petter and winning the Power Stage just shows again how quick the car is; we had both drivers leading the rally at one point,” concluded Wilson. “So if things had been just a little different, then we would have come away with a lot more.”

[Potoklosis]

DAY 3



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FtqAJfv8Pw

[bluuford]

bluuford, your ability to predict the future is uncanny..... :up:

- bluuford's prediction of what Malcolm would say:



- what Malcolm actually said on wrc.com:

Ford team boss Malcolm Wilson says Jari-Matti Latvala's speed on Rally Guanajuato Mexico provided plenty of consolation following the Finn's dramatic late exit from round three of the FIA World Rally Championship powered by Nokia.




Yeah.. making proper weather forecasts are much harder work and time consuming than making up some fairy tales.

Offers for PR positions are welcome :-P

[Ucci]

Yust a short comment day after the end of a rally: Loeb did precisley that what was expected to do-win. No drama for him, no flat tyres. He is THE BEST, simple as it can be. Hirvo is getting closer to him, at least on the gravel. Good for a second driver in the team. Solberg-as usualy strugled with flat tyres and un-consistent stage times. Nothing new here, either. JML-yust a word: there are times, when you have to realize, that pure pushing over the limits brings nothing. Maybe an accident. And he did excatley-a huge accident. Still nothing lost for this season. Even Loeb can make a mistake or DS3 gets some technical troubles. But for this JML will need unluck for Citroen Nb.1 driver. And I'm a bit dissapointment over Atko's pace.

[dimviii]

nice photos
Gallery: the Rally Mexico | Best of Rally Live (http://www.best-of-rallylive.com/en/2012/03/11/gallery-the-rally-mexico-2/)

[A FONDO]

photos from Mexico are always spectacular :)

[Barreis]

DAY 3



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FtqAJfv8Pw
Same story from JML as last 7 years.

[olschl]

I really wish I had something positive to say that would make Jari-Matti's indecent less asinine but I don't. He truly had no reason to be pushing like he was yet he can't seem to help himself. After reviewing the clip over and over, it's obvious that he hits something 19 seconds into the video that upsets the car, just prior to seeing Noviko's car. I understand that as top-tier athletes there is no ON-OFF switch to access that automatically puts one in safe driving mode but JM has to come to understand the long game and go for points at times. It's obvious he has the speed and to survive Day02 without an off, when he was really pushing, tells me he's learning. Maybe slowly, but he is the only one with a chance to match Loeb so he'll continue to get my support!

[DonJippo]

JML-yust a word: there are times, when you have to realize, that pure pushing over the limits brings nothing. Maybe an accident. And he did excatley-a huge accident.

Jari-Matti's off had nothing to do with him pushing "over the limits" everybody with reading skills should be aware of that by now.

[sollitt]

You're on the money DonJippo.

[Karukera]

Jari-Matti's off had nothing to do with him pushing "over the limits" everybody with reading skills should be aware of that by now.

Takes less than reading : simply watching the videos.
It was practically unavoidable regardless of who was coming behind Novikov.

[Viking]

Takes less than reading : simply watching the videos.
It was practically unavoidable regardless of who was coming behind Novikov.

Ehh...Block, Ogier, Araujo, Al-Attiyah, Tanak, Østberg and Solberg passed there before Latvala...

[Karukera]

Ehh...Block, Ogier, Araujo, Al-Attiyah, Tanak, Østberg and Solberg passed there before Latvala...

Sure but they weren't at "pace". And by this i don't mean Latvala was over the limit.
Being 15s quicker than Hirvonen who was in control after 25min isn't really what i'd call a charge.
The meeting point was just inappropriate, plus my own frustration.

[uranium]

on-board available here, at around 6:05

Review Rally Mexico 2012 Ford WRC - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtvDHVEeDDI&feature=g-all-u&context=G2a9d9afFAAAAAAAAFAA)

IMHO it is obvious that the reason for crash was only mistake - too high speed.
I am not an expert, just looking at the video - the corner was something like flat, or 0 depends on system. So, it is around 170-180 max. Maybe even less depends on grip.
Even if Latvala saw the Novikov car, and IF he passed the corner at that speed it has clearly seen 100 meters to slowdown to pass crashed car safely.
Sure it is my IMHO, appreciate comments from specialists.

[Karukera]

A rally stage should be free of a rolled and crushed Ford Fiesta WRC !

Now i'm running out of excuses. :)

[N.O.T]

Trying to find excuses for Latvalas stupid mistakes all the time reminds me of the excuses Solberg had all these years for not being fast enough...

In both cases there are not any valid excuses... just blind people.

It is fun though so keep going...

[Gregor-y]

Trying to find excuses for Latvalas stupid mistakes all the time reminds me of the excuses Solberg had all these years for not being fast enough...
I thought back then you could just blame Subaru.

[N.O.T]

I thought back then you could just blame Subaru.

yes the excuses for Solberg were easier to find i must say...

[Karukera]

It is fun though so keep going...

You're so easy to entertain. :)

[BleAivano]

Jari-Matti's off had nothing to do with him pushing "over the limits" everybody with reading skills should be aware of that by now.

its does not matter, pushing to hard will get you into problems one way or another.
There was no need for JML to push that hard especially not when being well over a minute behind Hirvonen.

Tell me what did JML gain by going so fast on that stage? Did he think he could catch Mikko (who was 1 min and 16 secs ahead.)?
Even if JML would have made it to the finish he would still be about a minute behind Mikko. With 15km to go.

[uranium]

...just remember Poland 2009. It is still in front of my eyes...

[sollitt]

I suspect you're all over analysing the situation. There's no question that Latvala make a mistake. But was the mistake driving too fast as some of you suggest, or was it simply an error in his reaction to the car on the stage?
To answer the first part you'd need to know whether, if he hadn't have come across Novikov's car, would he have completed the stage? In all likelihood, yes he would have. He had, after all, traversed 80% of the stage and the incar shows him looking relaxed and in control.

And what of the time he was setting? At about 40 ~ 45 kilometre mark he was 20 seconds ahead of Hirvonen. Does that really indicate that he was over "the limit" or pushing too hard? Given that Hirvonen was 1 minute 16 seconds ahead going into the stage and his propensity (often claimed on this forum) to slacken off when the opportunity arises, and couple that with the fact that Latvala had been fastest all weekend, is it not likely that he would have been this far ahead at regular pace?

On the previous two 'proper' stages he had been 12 & 11 seconds faster over just 18 kilometres. No-one suggested he was driving too hard then.

The fact is he was driving well, came upon something in the stage which unsettled him, his reaction wasn't what it could have been and resulted in an accident. Hey folks, this is motorsport, it happens ... once again ... get over it.

[rallyfiend]

I suspect you're all over analysing the situation. There's no question that Latvala make a mistake. But was the mistake driving too fast as some of you suggest, or was it simply an error in his reaction to the car on the stage?
To answer the first part you'd need to know whether, if he hadn't have come across Novikov's car, would he have completed the stage? In all likelihood, yes he would have. He had, after all, traversed 80% of the stage and the incar shows him looking relaxed and in control.

And what of the time he was setting? At about 40 ~ 45 kilometre mark he was 20 seconds ahead of Hirvonen. Does that really indicate that he was over "the limit" or pushing too hard? Given that Hirvonen was 1 minute 16 seconds ahead going into the stage and his propensity (often claimed on this forum) to slacken off when the opportunity arises, and couple that with the fact that Latvala had been fastest all weekend, is it not likely that he would have been this far ahead at regular pace?

On the previous two 'proper' stages he had been 12 & 11 seconds faster over just 18 kilometres. No-one suggested he was driving too hard then.

The fact is he was driving well, came upon something in the stage which unsettled him, his reaction wasn't what it could have been and resulted in an accident. Hey folks, this is motorsport, it happens ... once again ... get over it.

Yeah, what he said....

[Munkvy]

So, who will claim 2nd place this year? I think that is really the fight we should be focussing on. Its currently at least a 4 way battle between Solberg, Ostberg, JML and Hirvonen... And realistically Hirvonen, Ostberg and Solberg are all showing they are pretty good at consistently finishing in high points claiming positions, so in an excellent place for the rest of the season. And add a win or two for JML later in the season and its really open to any of them.

As for JML's off, well yes it's disappointing he crashed, but utterly understandable at the same time. End of a long 3 days racing in hot temperatures, pushing on the limit regularly due to having to try and regain as many positions as possible, doing a stage that involved racing for the best part 40mins, its incredibly easy to make a small mistake and have terrible consequences. At least he had the balls to be out there giving it a go and not just giving up, that's not necessarily the mark of a champion, but certainly a sign of someone with the sort of attitude that people should want to be associated with our beloved sport...

[N.O.T]

So, who will claim 2nd place this year?

this is easy..Hirvonen

the 3rd place is where the competiiton is....

[Barreis]

Wilson should give green light for fight to Solberg.

[A.F.F.]

Wilson should give green light for fight to Solberg.

I'm afraid he is. :mark:

[logic]

Wilson should give green light for fight to Solberg.

I think that is where it is at . He really should do that .

[dimviii]

I think that is where it is at . He really should do that .

i think that he is not going to do.

[N.O.T]

Even if he does.. not much will change in his speed.

[logic]

i think that he is not going to do.
I would rather both of them have a change to fight but reserve the right for team orders when or if they are in a position that they cannot lose or gain positions.

[Barreis]

Maybe but he was told that JLM is first driver and he's second. What's that - collecting points. He should try at least.

[Barreis]

Even if he does.. not much will change in his speed.

Maybe but he was told that JML is first driver and he's second. What's that - collecting points. He should try at least.

[N.O.T]

I would rather both of them have a change to fight but reserve the right for team orders when or if they are in a position that they cannot lose or gain positions.

it is still early for changing the priority of the drivers.... 2 retirements of Loeb with Latvala winning are not out of the question in the remaining rounds still very early to tell....

[logic]

it is still early for changing the priority of the drivers.... 2 retirements of Loeb with Latvala winning are not out of the question in the remaining rounds still very early to tell....

Very true , it is early days yet in the championship.

[Kielder]

I know it's while avoiding Atko but, does anyone know the cause of the Novikov's roof's hole? Thanks in advance.

[uranium]

As he told in interview, he has met in the middle of the dop on fast corner crashed car of Atko, and he needed to pass it using outer line. There was fence with barbed wire. And he touched it, and barbed wire cut his roof.
That's it.
You can hear it in russian

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPLU20C05Tc&feature=player_embedded

[uranium]

So Atko is guilty ;) He has broken championship! His crashed car caused Novikov crash, in his turn Novikov caused JML crash :)

[Kielder]

I supposed he explained it in the video, I've to improve my Russian :D . It wasn't said in any place (I haven't found it, at least), not in the comments of the video.
Yeah, uranium, the Atko's crash was the butterfly effect :( . Thanks again for your translation.

[Back-N-Black]

I'm sure that if JML had finished the stage and taken 20+ seconds out of Hirvenon all of you who are criticising him would be singing a different tune. We are lucky to have a driver who's able, and prepared, to drive on the limit and raise the hairs on our necks.
Sometimes it doesn't work out. That's the price of a little excitement.

I'm a Ford and JML fan, I agree with most of what you said but don't you think 20 seconds would not be impossible? Mikko and Loeb are, after all, just cruising. I'm just saying.

[uranium]

don't you think 20 seconds would not be impossible?
And? Before the stage it was +1:16.0.
P.S.: 20 sec would be impressive if JML did the stage.

[uranium]

Mikko and Loeb are, after all, just cruising.

1. Hirvonen M. - Lehtinen J. 36:30.7
2. Loeb S. - Elena D. 36:31.4 +0.7
3. Solberg P. - Patterson C. 36:34.6 +3.9 +3.2

Nice cruising...

[dimviii]

of course cruising,except if somebody thinks that when Loeb pushes, can be 20sec down at stage splits,and all these without problems

[Barreis]

Loeb is in safe mode. :D

[dimviii]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYo2ym5M4wM&feature=player_embedded

[Back-N-Black]

Loeb is in safe mode. :D

Exactly!