IndyCar 2011 Dan Wheldon Las Vegas Accident Investigation

[anthonyvop]

I have posted the full report here

IndyCar (http://www.oversteertv.net/IndyCar.html)

[heliocastroneves#3]

As they say on the IndyCar.com (http://www.IndyCar.com) website, this was the perfect storm. It's very sad that this has happened, but a similar incident was the one during the zMax 500 at Atlanta Motor Speedway in 2001, and this kind of accidents could have happened at Homestead or Texas as well.

Now I'm just very curious if Texas will remain on the 2012 schedule or not.


I'm happy we won't return to Vegas in 2012, because if I would have to watch a race at Las Vegas right now, I can only think about Dan Wheldon and the tragedy which happened on lap 11 this season.

[MAX_THRUST]

Have to say i felt the same about Fontanna after Greg Moore's crash. I didn't wanna watch a race from there either. Its sad that Dan passed, and amazing he only suffered a serious head injury. I'm amazed he suffered no other issues. So clearly the fencing is something that needs to be looked at. Hope his family can have a happy Christmas and a good new year, but i imagine it will be tough for them. My thoughts are with them.

[rabf1]

"amazing he only suffered a serious head injury"

I'm assuming a helmet would basically be crushed hitting a pole at that speed so i don't even want to think about what "serious head injury" means in this context. I remember the safety doctor after Zanardi's accident saying he had "serious leg injuries."

[FIAT1]

Who is briliant idiot behind this release today. Why not week before or some other date? They did not provide nothing new that we did not know for years in regards to pack no lift racing. Bad pr move on same day when focus should be on new car delivery. RIP Dan.

[Chris R]

There is no good time for something like this and there is no point in delaying it either.....

I also hate to say it, but the quieter they are about the new car right now probably the better- too much information may be the biggest problem of all with the new car.....

As for the actual report - seems pretty well spot on to me - there really should not have been any surprises in the report. As with many disasters, a confluence of events made really bad things happen. Short of not racing, I am not sure any one thing THAT COULD BE CONTROLLED could have been changed to definitively make a difference.... They are pretty much addressing the only thing that they can - not racing at the track until they come up with a viable plan.... Really a very sensible approach, I think...

Also, I have to observe, this really makes CART at Texas look much wiser than anyone thought back then.... They identified an issue they could not resolve and walked away with egg on their face because it was better than the potential alternative..... I am not saying that Indycar could or should have made that choice, just that one controversial issue for the past seems a little more justifiable in hindsight now....

Last but not least, who would have thought too many racing lines (too good of a track surface??) would have been a problem? People are always asking for more ways around a track and more racing room.... It is very unfortunate that it took an incident of this magnitude to make us (myself included) see that more racing room is not always better.....

[wedge]

Have to say i felt the same about Fontanna after Greg Moore's crash. I didn't wanna watch a race from there either.

His death there brought a huge pain in me but I have no problems with open wheelers racing there. A problem was identified, rectified ie. asphalt run off - not grass mixed with service/access roads; but IMHO also important was that the purity of open wheeled race car was not affected.


Last but not least, who would have thought too many racing lines (too good of a track surface??) would have been a problem? People are always asking for more ways around a track and more racing room.... It is very unfortunate that it took an incident of this magnitude to make us (myself included) see that more racing room is not always better.....

Multiple grooves isn't really a problem but add pack racing into the equation and you create the perfect storm...

[DBell]

AUTO RACING - INDYCAR: Series Offers Some Answers, Possible Changes From Wheldon Crash (http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/indycar-series-offers-some-answers-possible-changes-from-wheldon-crash/)

I read this article at Speed and I was bothered by this quote from Barnhart:
Barnhart said it's imperative for IndyCar to establish guidelines for the drivers to follow going future on surfaces such as Las Vegas.

"We need to create a limit," he said. "They have to understand there is a line they can't cross."



It sounds like he is saying they can pack race at Vegas as long as they instruct the drivers on what they can and can't do. WTF?

First off, why is this joker the one answering questions? After what I saw at Loudon, the last person from IndyCar I want explanations from is him. Why isn't Randy or Cotman or anybody with some credibility answering these questions?

The idea in the quote is a joke. That he or IndyCar thinks that driver instruction and the drivers understanding the instructions will prevent this from happening is unbelievable.

[jimispeed]

Just heard the audio of that press conference.........man that was hard to listen to.

[call_me_andrew]

Now I'm just very curious if Texas will remain on the 2012 schedule or not.

I don't see why not. Texas hasn't been resurfaced since it was built, it's not as easy to stay in a pack like Vegas.

[00steven]

The fact that 37 cars could have raced is staggering to me.

[Loneranger]

This stupid inquiry was just another excuse for Barnhardt to get some camera time.

[bennybigb]

Well I'm just glad that the investigation proves that this terrible accident was not the IRL's fault.

Time to put this wreck behind us just like all the others (Brayton, Schmidt, Dana, Renna).

[Dr. Krogshöj]

Did we learn anything we hadn't already known?

[anthonyvop]

Well I'm just glad that the investigation proves that this terrible accident was not the IRL's fault.




I hope you are being sarcastic.

[00steven]

I hope you are being sarcastic.

I'm 99% sure he was.

[Nem14]

From the Autoracing1.com home page


A reader writes, The conclusion of the report was basically it was just bad luck that Wheldon was killed. A canopy over the driver is not an option. OK, I guess they have to kill off a few more of their star drivers before anything is done. NASCAR had the same mentality with the HANS Device until their biggest star, Dale Earnhardt was killed. Then they finally mandated it. I wonder if a casket company wants to sponsor an IndyCar car? They can paint the car to look like a coffin with 4 wheels. Mordichai Rosen, LA. California.
If you don't have any facts, might as well stir the pot with some sensational, totally speculative comments.

We will never know if a canopy on Dan Weldon's car would have made any difference.

Note: When there is a serious problem, fighter pilots blow the canopy off their airplane and get out.

[rabf1]

It seems once again like the catch fences/poles are really the problem. It would be a beter use of time to try to come up with something better (some type of kevlar netting?) than put a canopy on the car. I can't envision any type of canopy that would survive a direct impact with a pole at 200mph. There has to be some way of restraining cars that get over the wall that will not cause the cars to discintegrate. And even if they cant do that, they certainly should be able to move the support poles back so the wire fence is hanging.

[numanoid]

It seems once again like the catch fences/poles are really the problem. It would be a beter use of time to try to come up with something better (some type of kevlar netting?) than put a canopy on the car. I can't envision any type of canopy that would survive a direct impact with a pole at 200mph. There has to be some way of restraining cars that get over the wall that will not cause the cars to discintegrate. And even if they cant do that, they certainly should be able to move the support poles back so the wire fence is hanging.

Sounds like a good application for carbon nanotubes. Unfortunately we're a few years away from mass production and affordable cost. It could, and if adopted, will be a game changer.

A good start is to move the damn poles on the outside of the fence. Not sure if it was a factor here, but it's certainly more dangerous having them on the inside than the outside.

[Anubis]

Anyone know why they impounded Pippa Mann's car as well as Wheldon's?

[markabilly]

Anyone know why they impounded Pippa Mann's car as well as Wheldon's?

If you read the report, there is some interesting stuff about how to mess with the brakes and/or calipers to gain a speed advantage but that could also lead to an accident

Bottom line, is that racing is dangerous. It has become safer in many respects, but speed generates energy that will still hurt. Given the damage to the car with the roll hoop torn off and the chassis split open, I do not think that there is any technology at the presnt time that would have saved his life, except forcing the cars to go much much much slower.

At some rate of impact, the human body simply will not survive due to internal injuries, especially to the brain.

Reminds me of concussions sufferred by football players.....or the last few years of movies, where there is an explosion that is so forceful, the hero goes flying through the air, gets up and jumps back into the fight. No problem!

Wrong.



Reality is different as that sort of air pressure or shock wave does all sorts of damages that shows up not all that much at first, but progress for up to 48 hours later, with fatal results---things such as butterfly lungs.

from the CDC website regarding non penetrating injuries from the shock wave in an explosion:

Blast lung (pulmonary
barotrauma)
- TM rupture and middle ear
damage
- Abdominal hemorrhage
and perforation
- Globe (eye) rupture
- Concussion (TBI without
physical signs of head
injury)
http://www.cdc.gov/masstrauma/preparedness/primer.pdf



No different principles apply to car wreck accidents

[Anubis]

If you read the report, there is some interesting stuff about how to mess with the brakes and/or calipers to gain a speed advantage but that could also lead to an accident

On the basis she arrived on the scene very rapidly perhaps? I must admit, my first thought was rather more gruesome, so I shan't voice it.

[Nem14]

If you read the report, there is some interesting stuff about how to mess with the brakes and/or calipers to gain a speed advantage but that could also lead to an accident

Is the entire report online somewhere where it can be read?

[markabilly]

On the basis she arrived on the scene very rapidly perhaps? I must admit, my first thought was rather more gruesome, so I shan't voice it.


Is the entire report online somewhere where it can be read?

No there is some way of messing with the brake calipers and pads that provides a speed advantage such as in qualifying (reduces brake drag), but can lead to problems when the brakes are used hard and frequent.

I have a copy of the report in pdf format, but I do not know how to post it here

[gm99]

Is the entire report online somewhere where it can be read?

There's a link to it in post #1 - or is that not the entire report?

[Nem14]

Yep, that looks like it. 49 pages.

http://www.oversteertv.net/Las_Vegas_Accident_Investigation_12_15_11.pdf