Do You Know the Real Islam?

[monadvspec]

So are you suggesting that instead, we ignore all the horrible parts of religion and cherry-pick the good bits and get excited, shouting 'Look! That's religion!'?

I was speaking very specifically about terrorists. I don't actually believe that a terrorist is a person with religion other than say, terror.

[Dave B]

If we could still have quotes in our signatures, I'd have this:


I can find no positive influence that any religon can provide, that a rational atheist cannot manage perfectly well without supernatural guidance.

:up:

[Bob Riebe]

I laughed out loud when I read this.. :laugh:

Seriously Bob that was lame. The fact you have a vested interest by being a member of one of the religions on topic suggests to me you are incapable of making an impartial opinion on whether you consider another religion violent or not. Also the irony of a Christian accusing muslims of being violent is rather funny. And we wonder why wars and conflicts start eh? lolTruth got to you.

The bias of your rhetoric is like a big zit on your posts.

[Bob Riebe]

Or what some Muslims do?
Do all christians picket funerals and plant bombs in pubs or just an evil minority? I think you need to be careful of your wording, especially if you are trying to convince people a religion promotes hate but ignore acts carried out by people of your own faith. You keep trying to compare how many deaths are at the hands of one religion, but I don't see this as a competition to see who commits the least.
Give me the death tolls, for the past ten years comparing Christian suicide bombers to Christian suicide bombers.

If you do not do that, any comparison of the religions is bull-****.

[Bob Riebe]

-

If you have to ask the question then I doubt you will ever understand. Do you have any idea how big the universe is? Or how many species have existed before we have?



Looks to me like a submission of fear.




Do you always think as logically as this? Your last point is so ridiculous it does not value a reply.You cannot defend your rhetoric.

Typical prattle of an anti-religious bigot.

[Bob Riebe]

Like this?

A List Of Biblical Contradictions (http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim_meritt/bible-contradictions.html)
That site is the aniti-christian equivalence of anti-denomination heresy-hunter sites-- lies and damned lies because of either ignorance or simple hatred.

[race aficionado]

You can dig into these ancient books and find 'instructions" that are out of date or totally ridiculous and dangerous.

is there an App to bring us to the 21st century and get rid of these old inflammatory writings ? :rolleyes:

Deuteronomy 22:13-21 - ESVBible.org (http://www.esvbible.org/Deuteronomy+22.13-21/)


But if the thing is true, that evidence of virginity was not found in the young woman, then they shall bring out the young woman to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her to death with stones, because she has done an outrageous thing in Israel by whoring in her father's house. So you shall purge the evil from your midst.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

You cannot defend your rhetoric.

Typical prattle of an anti-religious bigot.

Well I did. You just chose to ignore it, possible because you can't defend your rhetoric. So once again - do you have any idea how big the universe is? Or how many species have existed before we have? Why would we -as humans- bare any significance on the 'creator' of all of this?

As for you claim about 'fallen angels' - something I could imagine the village drunk talking about - what evidence do you have for this? What you assert without any evidence I will dismiss without any evidence.

Why am I a bigot for just questioning your beliefs? If I said that I didn't want to share the Earth with religious people then that might warrant being called a bigot. But all I'm am doing is asking you to explain why. The same we do if someone has different political belief or taste in music etc.

[Bob Riebe]

You can dig into these ancient books and find 'instructions" that are out of date or totally ridiculous and dangerous.

is there an App to bring us to the 21st century and get rid of these old inflammatory writings ? :rolleyes:

Deuteronomy 22:13-21 - ESVBible.org (http://www.esvbible.org/Deuteronomy+22.13-21/)
It has been written in this forum, many times, that the New Testament fulfills the old and the laws, which were, for the Jews.
Jesus fulfilling of what was written in the Old Testament makes that verse moot.

Your bias or bigotry makes you bliind to that fact.

[Bob Riebe]

Well I did. You just chose to ignore it, possible because you can't defend your rhetoric. So once again - do you have any idea how big the universe is? Or how many species have existed before we have? Why would we -as humans- bare any significance on the 'creator' of all of this?

As for you claim about 'fallen angels' - something I could imagine the village drunk talking about - what evidence do you have for this? What you assert without any evidence I will dismiss without any evidence.

Why am I a bigot for just questioning your beliefs? If I said that I didn't want to share the Earth with religious people then that might warrant being called a bigot. But all I'm am doing is asking you to explain why. The same we do if someone has different political belief or taste in music etc.
You are prattling on with accusation and childish insults about Christian this, that and other things.
Defend your rhetoric with some sort of fact; whereas failure to do so simply amounts to blind bigotry.

[BDunnell]

It is amazing that a large portion of this thread seems to consist of calling Christians are no better, or worse than Muslims, despite the thousand of people murdered by Muslims in the past decade.
Sounds like a bit of bigotry to me and yes I am bigoted against the Muslim faith.

At the same time I have worked with and had Muslim friends who were either decent people, or good ole boy hell raisers who liked to have good time.

Do you have any Muslim friends now? Or would you be too afraid still to socialise with them, for fear of what might happen?

Being bigoted is nothing to be proud of under any circumstances.

[BDunnell]

That's nitpicking, isn't it?

No. Such errors, when combined with the point of view being expressed, indicate to me that the individual concerned is not intelligent enough to formulate a reasonable, cogent argument. The fact that their opinions are lifted from a website confirms that view.

[ArrowsFA1]

Give me the death tolls, for the past ten years...
Why just the last 10 years?

[Bob Riebe]

Not really and I think I justified myself in my response. I'm noticing you are starting to get a little more aggressive in your posts and maybe this has something to do with the fact people here are producing some very valid questions and arguments that you have no answer for? I am not a religious man and have seen zero evidence that any form of supernatural force is watching over us as human beings. You are welcome to believe what you wish, but suggesting we are biased and spouting rhetoric because you can't justify why you believe there is a god is not my problem.
---This thread is not about my beliefs and having to, nor do I have to, or would I ever try to, justify my faith to anyone. The statement preceding this puts an exclamation point on your bigotry.

What is it with death tolls and stats for each religion? Why should that matter? How can we differentiate between deaths caused because of religion and a group planting IED's and shooting our soldiers because they don't want us in their country and taking control of their economy. I personally feel we are attempting to do good in these places even if I don't agree its doing any good btw.

If a christian American/British soldier shoots somebody dead (possibly a Muslim) during a firefight, you state it was an act of war with a very political cause and to rid the world of evil. If a Muslim Taliban fighter shoots a soldier or plants an IED (cowardly I agree), you state it was because he is Muslim and is killing people purely because his holy book has told him to do so. Get real. You can't differentiate between the two as we are at war for political reasons, not entirely religious, and that goes for both sides.---------My what a blatant ignoring of the bombing of mosques, churches, weddings, funerals, shopping centers by the Muslim (soldiers?)
If you think that is just war, too bad you are not running the war over there. It would have been over years ago by indiscriminately turning, as many need be, Muslim cites and villages into " smoking holes in the desert. "{That is the simple statement by H. Clinton that proved she would have been better than the Obama.})

LOL, so you think you, or some have, to even a hint of a degree, produced- "some very valid questions and arguments"- hot damn, you have some very low expectations for a valid arguments (there was one point of the Irish, that was valid to its degree and that is the ONLY item that could be called valid.)

What has been produced here is at the Pee-Wee Herman level of " I know I'm not, what about you?"

Opinions that are biased, to genuinely bigoted, has been all that has been produced, while ignoring facts that make the Islam-Christian analogy pathetic at best, and stupid at worst.

Muslims are murdering people, both infidels and opposing denominations (or what ever Sunni, Shiite etc. call other Muslims.)
The effort is being made here, without a base, to say Christians are no different.
(An effort was made to say Eastern religions were so much more peaceful; whereas that ignores how the Japanese treated others during WWII, the conflicts between Pakistan and India, and probably a few other conflicts by these people with their peaceful religion that does not come to mind.)

If that is so, give me the numbers in the twenty first, or hell, even the twentieth Century of people murdered by Christians in the name of the Bible, randomly or by discriminate choice, those not of their faith.

[Bob Riebe]

Do you have any Muslim friends now? Or would you be too afraid still to socialise with them, for fear of what might happen?

Being bigoted is nothing to be proud of under any circumstances.
No, to both questions.

It does not seem that long ago, but it has been ten years since I last worked with one, although while trying to find the correct church, I walked into the building where the church had been and it was now a mosque.
When I walked in, it was a night service and the lights were on, and asked if this was the Methodist church, the Somalians inside smiled laughed and said, no that had moved one block down. They also said I was not the first one to do that.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

You are prattling on with accusation and childish insults about Christian this, that and other things.
Defend your rhetoric with some sort of fact; whereas failure to do so simply amounts to blind bigotry.

Okay, I will try for a third time.

Do you have any evidence that 'god' wants to have a personal relationship with humans? As I said earlier, given the size of the universe and the history of species on this one planet we call Earth, that is quite a self-centered assumption to make.

I have lots of facts in order to defend my argument, but your argument hasn't developed enough for me to be able to use them.

[Roamy]

Who is the Islam's quarterback??

[race aficionado]

It has been written in this forum, many times, that the New Testament fulfills the old and the laws, which were, for the Jews.
Jesus fulfilling of what was written in the Old Testament makes that verse moot.

I really don't know what you are talking about - and if has been said many times in this forum, it must be true


Your bias or bigotry makes you bliind to that fact.

Bob, I was brought up as a Christian and it did not take me long to reject the fear mongering "lessons". I am not biased nor a bigot and do not need to prove it's "truth" to you. I am at peace with my experiences (and notice how I didn't say beliefs).

peace

:s mokin:

[Bob Riebe]

Okay, I will try for a third time.

Do you have any evidence that 'god' wants to have a personal relationship with humans? As I said earlier, given the size of the universe and the history of species on this one planet we call Earth, that is quite a self-centered assumption to make.

I have lots of facts in order to defend my argument, but your argument hasn't developed enough for me to be able to use them.
Evidence- hmm, that would mean one either believes there is a god of some sort, or is seriously trying to inquire if there is one. Then one would read the/a religions holy text to see what it says.

Does God want to have a personal relationship?
No, I would say, God would be happy if one wants to have a relationship with him. If one does not, God will not worry about it.

You have facts to prove there is no god of any sort?
Now that is something entirely different, as no religion has proof of any sort, a god exists.

[BDunnell]

Evidence- hmm, that would mean one either believes there is a god of some sort, or is seriously trying to inquire if there is one. Then one would read the/a religions holy text to see what it says.

What the Bible says, amongst other things, is that Jesus turned water into wine. Any sensible being of sound mind knows that this is impossible. Not the most reliable source, perhaps.

[Bob Riebe]

What the Bible says, amongst other things, is that Jesus turned water into wine. Any sensible being of sound mind knows that this is impossible. Not the most reliable source, perhaps.For the Christian faith, the only source.
One either accepts what is written at face value, or becomes one of thousands of "churches" (or religious organizations) remaking the Christian God in their own image.

Impossible?
Scientists said for years nothing could exceed the speed of light but recently they are having second thoughts.

Impossible, only if one absolutely believes there is no god, and that if the one cannot do it, no one- can. Mean while, men will continue to try, while explaining in man made theories that which they cannot prove. to prove there is no god.

[monadvspec]

For the Christian faith, the only source.
One either accepts what is written at face value, or becomes one of thousands of "churches" (or religious organizations) remaking the Christian God in their own image.

Impossible?
Scientists said for years nothing could exceed the speed of light but recently they are having second thoughts.

Impossible, only if one absolutely believes there is no god, and that if the one cannot do it, no one- can. Mean while, men will continue to try, while explaining in man made theories that which they cannot prove. to prove there is no god.

You are equating a theory " all scientific fact" is in reality a theory as there are no absolutes.

But Bob, are you really of the belief that a man turned water into wine? Maybe he started the twelve sstep program afterwards too.

[monadvspec]

I do know what Im talking about. I am an American and a Christian and proud to be both. I have studied Islam, taken classes, went to lectures, talked with local pastors about it. Trust me, its not peaceful. If you think it is, then you dont believe what the Koran says. It clearly states to kill and death to all non-believers. Is that peaceful ?

I dont have time rite now but I can get in depth to what I am saying and back it up with verses, studies, etc. I think you fall in the #2 category my friend.
If you knew what you were talking about you would answer some of the questions posed. What is that term I keep hearing about people like you, is it sheeple (as in a follower)?
Do you just sit there and allow yourself to be preached to and believe everything you hear without inquiry? I see in some forums that there are those that believe that Hitler was a left leaning fascist which is in fact an oxymoron. Please answer at least the water to wine and the loaves to fish miracle.In addition, was your Gerry Falwell (sic) or Pat Robertson one of the people who lectured you? Your failure to answer questions posed to you suggests that you are not well read or knowledgeable.

By the way, what is the second commandment? It has something to do with idolatry and false Gods. Hmmm, a unsettling attachment to a female race car driver.....

[ShiftingGears]

That site is the aniti-christian equivalence of anti-denomination heresy-hunter sites-- lies and damned lies because of either ignorance or simple hatred.

Unless those contradictory passages are falsified, then my point remains.

[Bob Riebe]

If you knew what you were talking about you would answer some of the questions posed. What is that term I keep hearing about people like you, is it sheeple (as in a follower)?
Do you just sit there and allow yourself to be preached to and believe everything you hear without inquiry? I see in some forums that there are those that believe that Hitler was a left leaning fascist which is in fact an oxymoron. Please answer at least the water to wine and the loaves to fish miracle.In addition, was your Gerry Falwell (sic) or Pat Robertson one of the people who lectured you? Your failure to answer questions posed to you suggests that you are not well read or knowledgeable.

By the way, what is the second commandment? It has something to do with idolatry and false Gods. Hmmm, a unsettling attachment to a female race car driver.....The intellectual level of this last statement, explains why the rhetoric in your post seems to be non-existent. There is no intellect behind it.
But if it makes you feel better keep on stroking yourself, maybe being so full of yourself will have you purring like a kitten.
Mean while, this thread topic is about the "real Islam" while you and others like you, just keep yapping on about how evil Christians are at best or make silly remarks that those in a mutual admiration society do to bond.
Thank you.
You made my point quite well that your attacks are nothing more than bigotry unleashed.

Valid off-topic questions, have not been asked.

The bs site about Bible contradictions rests its hopes on people being either too apathetic or biased, to take time to actually read the Bible and see that the supposed contradictions are created by taking items out of context, or deliberate ignorance.
The Bible consists of writings by different people writing what they saw and thought should be recorded.
It is not a pre-planned item with writers consulting each other on what the others are writing; therefore the method of telling an item, and what is or is not included, will be from the style of the author of that piece. (As a police officer would say- ask five people who saw the same thing what happened and you will get at least three different versions- NOT because each sees not something different but because each recalls what that person finds most memorable or important in the scene.)

Now the actual book WAS put together by scholars who rather than change what was written to make a nice flowing tome, cobbled it together as fluid as possible, without changing any. (Books that were considered non-Canon were eliminated. Some say( R. Catholics kept some of them) the history in them would have helped, while others say too much in them was possibly copiers amplifying the books, because they could.---------{If you really give a damn, read books on the early Christian church and or writings by some of the people who put it together over a thousand years ago. })
For those who actually do not know, it was not written in chapters and verses, that was supposed to make it easier to read.

I can give you a web site that takes all the contradictions that that site lists and rips the author's ignorance to threads by using what the Bible actually says, but then you boys would jump on the table and say, "Oh yeah, another Christian site, like we are supposed to believe what they write?"

Why don't you boys start a- Christians are evil- thread, you can have a hay-day there.

Sorry boys, I am not going take hours to cut and paste out of the Bible and then try to explain, what it actually says, to people who would just make grade-school insults because their minds are made up, while this off topic item is their current equivalent of target shooting with blanks.

[Bob Riebe]

Unless those contradictory passages are falsified, then my point remains.You have no point and the site's contradictions do not exist unless one pops out quotes in a manner to fit one's agenda.

Read the Bible and see why this wannabe heresy-hunter's site is wrong.

If you do not want to do that, there is, or are, sites that directly answer each contradiction listed by the atheist equivalent of a heresy-hunter.
If you are going to take what he writes at face value, then it is hypocritical to not check and see what those who answered his charges have said.

[GridGirl]

Opinions that are biased, to genuinely bigoted, has been all that has been produced, while ignoring facts that make the Islam-Christian analogy pathetic at best, and stupid at worst.

Muslims are murdering people, both infidels and opposing denominations (or what ever Sunni, Shiite etc. call other Muslims.)
The effort is being made here, without a base, to say Christians are no different.


Why should you be able say that muslims are murdering people but in the same breath state that Christians are not? Should this really be a Muslims kill people and Christians dont argument or a Christians kill people and Muslims dont argument? At the end of the day people kill people.

[BDunnell]

I think you have a few issues with Islam that you yourself do not fully understand.

Remove the words 'with Islam' and you would be spot-on.

[ShiftingGears]

You have no point and the site's contradictions do not exist unless one pops out quotes in a manner to fit one's agenda.

No, without going to read the whole bible, the point I made was that claims of the Koran being erronous could just as easily be applied to the Bible, and defended or justified with the same logic. Which makes DanicaFan's argument on those grounds, baseless.

[Dave B]

If that is so, give me the numbers in the twenty first, or hell, even the twentieth Century of people murdered by Christians in the name of the Bible, randomly or by discriminate choice, those not of their faith.

What is this obsession with numbers? If Religion A is responsible for x deaths, and Religion B is responsible for x/2 deaths, does that mean that A is "better" than B? No, it means that both religions have crappy factions who interpret their respective texts in a way which justifies killing. That's not something to be proud of.

I know that the Christians who go around killing and discriminating, spreading hatrid and bigotry, aren't representative of the entire religion. So why do people have this mental block about the tiny minority of Muslims who do the same, tainting the vast majority of peaceful followers of their faith? And why does it appear that a disproportionate number of those people with the mental block are Americans?

[Bagwan]

There are those who follow various religions .

There are those who , with help from highly experienced propagandists , ensure that those religions cast each other as evil , so as to ensure wars between different factions are propagated regularly , to ensure profits .

Religion is a good way to get people to fight each other .

Witness this thread , and it becomes easy to understand .
It's not about who is right , but who isn't .

Testify , or justify ?

[Robinho]

how could a god allow this to happen BBC News - Giant Jesus statue hit by lightning in Ohio (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10331358)

[Mark]

Cos the statue was crap, even God was offended.

[SGWilko]

Genuinely religious people tend to be genuinely good-hearted, friendly, open, warm and caring for others.
....until you become a member of their cult, then their attitude changes..... :laugh:

[jens]

The issue with "turning water into wine" and other expressions is that they may well be (and probably are) metaphors. Those holy books were written such a long time ago that it is basically very challenging to understand, what did the author really have in mind with what he was saying. The problems arise, when people are not deepening into the issue nor utilize reading comprehension, trying to understand contexts, backgrounds and imagination. I do believe (now I used that keyword, see! :) ) that a religion is fundamentally tolerant and aimed at spreading good-will, so seeing some Christians here arguing against other religions and spreading hate have some work to do with themselves, religious work no less.

[SGWilko]

What the Bible says, amongst other things, is that Jesus turned water into wine. Any sensible being of sound mind knows that this is impossible. Not the most reliable source, perhaps.

Not true! All you [also] need is sugar, yeast, elderflowers to taste, a demijohn, an airing cupboard and about a week.........

[SGWilko]

Text found on the 'missing' first page of the bible:-

The characters in this book are fictitious and any resemblance to persons living or dead is purely coincidental

:laugh:

[Mark]

Not true! All you [also] need is sugar, yeast, elderflowers to taste, a demijohn, an airing cupboard and about a week.........

No grapes?

[SGWilko]

No grapes?

Well, he'd need to wash his feet first, and who would be allowed to do that?

[Mark]

He can wash his own feet, lazy bitch.

[SGWilko]

He can wash his own feet, lazy bitch.

Oooohhhhhh, get you!

[monadvspec]

There is something that has always intrigued me when conversing with "born agains" and their belief system. It appears to me as a totally self absorbed way of looking at their maker and what he want irrespective of what those in hearing distance wish to hear.
I saw on Sunday a QB (quarter back)for an American NFL team that has become famous because of his Christian beliefs which he spouts ad nauseam when given the chance. I guess he believes that JC is looking a/after him only b/ his team and c/ the other team is a bunch of heathens.
Oh, and by the way to Danica Fan and Bob Riebe. How do you rationalize execution and war even if it is for your own defense when it clearly states "Thou shalt not Kill". I don't see anything about killing murderers or collateral damage victims such as those in all the wars and violence since time immemorial.

[Dave B]

Not true! All you [also] need is sugar, yeast, elderflowers to taste, a demijohn, an airing cupboard and about a week.........

About a week? Are we making Jacob's Creek?

[Bob Riebe]

Why should you be able say that muslims are murdering people but in the same breath state that Christians are not? Should this really be a Muslims kill people and Christians dont argument or a Christians kill people and Muslims dont argument? At the end of the day people kill people.Go to post 183 and then how I responded to Dave's statement and then how Henner respondeded to my response and then how I respondededed to Henner's incorrrect reading of my responses and then....

It will tell you how it got to this point.

[Bob Riebe]

What is this obsession with numbers? If Religion A is responsible for x deaths, and Religion B is responsible for x/2 deaths, does that mean that A is "better" than B? No, it means that both religions have crappy factions who interpret their respective texts in a way which justifies killing. That's not something to be proud of.

I know that the Christians who go around killing and discriminating, spreading hatrid and bigotry, aren't representative of the entire religion.---Give me the proof and numbers here--- So why do people have this mental block about the tiny minority of Muslims who do the same, tainting the vast majority of peaceful followers of their faith? And why does it appear that a disproportionate number of those people with the mental block are Americans?---How many soldiers in Europe have pulled out a gun, shouted the equivalent of "In the name of Jesus" while murdering fellow soldiers?---

OK let's do this one more time: Muslims use the Koran as the reason, and the only reason they need, for their indiscriminate killing.
No other religion murders women and children because verses of their holy book tells them to.

Some one, you, earlier said that Christians killed people because the Bible tells them to, now give me the numbers of people killed by Christians who did it because the Blble told them to do it
You cannot use the Crusades, which is the usual response, unless you can prove they did it because the Bible, (not to forget the insulting of Mohammed is reason enough for murder) told them to.

If the numbers are not similar, and the reason for the killing similar, then there is no comparison and the Christian analogy is bogus, based on varying levels of bias.

[BDunnell]

Go to post 183 and then how I responded to Dave's statement and then how Henner respondeded to my response and then how I respondededed to Henner's incorrrect reading of my responses and then....

It will tell you how it got to this point.

Maybe you would also like to inform us how you got to the point of writing words like 'respondeded' and 'respondededed'? Are each of these successively more important or longer responses?

[Bob Riebe]

Christians = 7,267,467
Muslims = 7,267,467

God just told me this although I didn't ask which one.Nice try bunky.

[Bob Riebe]

Maybe you would also like to inform us how you got to the point of writing words like 'respondeded' and 'respondededed'? Are each of these successively more important or longer responses?Because if I had actually finished the sentence it would have been up to- respondededededed or thereabouts.
It was ededed enough.

[donKey jote]

If this Riebe-show is anything to go by, heaven must be full of nutters ! :laugh:

[BDunnell]

If this Riebe-show is anything to go by, heaven must be full of nutters ! :laugh:

Repetitiveiveiveiveive nutters.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

How do you rationalize execution and war even if it is for your own defense when it clearly states "Thou shalt not Kill". I don't see anything about killing murderers or collateral damage victims such as those in all the wars and violence since time immemorial.

'Thou shalt not kill" means "Thou shall not kill another Jew"

[Malbec]

I thought some of this seemed a bit eloquent, so did a quick search for your words and found your opinions, and some of the phraseology, to have been lifted in large part from this website:

TheReligionofPeace - Games Muslims Play (http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/Games-Muslims-Play.htm)

For instance: 'But Muslims today pray toward Mecca. The reason for this is that Muhammad issued a later command that abrogated (or nullified) the first.' I somehow doubt that words such as 'abrogate' feature that heavily in your everyday language. And you have the gall to accuse all Muslims of lacking intelligence for following the Koran!

Blind quoting typifies fanatics of all colours. When you speak to them face to face you can almost see their eyes glaze over as they subcontract out their thinking processes to someone else.

Sadly this thread shows that fanatics come from all faiths including atheists. Frankly I'm a little surprised that the Christian fundies on this thread are still alive, what with 1.6 billion bloodthirsty Muslims after them life must be pretty exciting.

[monadvspec]

'Thou shalt not kill" means "Thou shall not kill another Jew"

Is that why Berkowitz (sic) is still alive?

[ArrowsFA1]

Bob, the Crusades were an example of Christianity (the word of the Bible) being spread in a violent, militaristic manner.

[SGWilko]

What did he say?

Meek!, Blessed are the meek. Oh, that's nice, cos they have hell of a time..........

[Mark]

If you ask me it's the meek that are the problem.

[The Black Knight]

It's incredibly sad how few people really know the true Islam today.

Islam teaches many things and that includes justice, love, preserving family blood ties, brotherhood, kindness to one's parents, and the list goes on.

Many people in the West confuse the real teachings of Islam with the stupid behavior of extremists who have the audacity to call themselves muslims. Real muslims do not kill innocent people. But these terrorists use any excuse to justify their foolish actions.

Then there are those who use the following terms: "radical islam" or "islamic radicalism," or "islamic terrorists" which in reality have nothing to do with Islam. Why? Islam does not support any kind of radical, terrorist, or extremist behavior.

Another point that many people in the West confuse: Sunna with Shia sect. The "muslims" from Iran practice a version of Islam which isn't truly Islam. There was a split of who should have been the first muslim leader after Muhammad's death. Some believed that Muhammad(PBUH) wanted Ali Ibn Abi Talib to become the first Caliph. Ali's supporters became the shia sect. And the Sunni is the majority of muslims today. The Sunni is the practices of Prophet Muhammad(Peace Be Upon Him) which are the examples that he set forth in order to give future Muslims a clear guidance in how to behave in everyday life. This is the true Islam.

People are confusing politics with religion, and that is why most people today cannot get a truer picture of the real Islam.

You should be careful whom you lable a terrorist. I mean, President Bush used the thread of WoMD as an excuse to justify his invasion of Iraq. These terrorists believe they are doing the right thing, just like Bush did. Who here dares call Bush a terrorist? I do! By his own definition, he himself is a terrorist. He believes he is right, "extremists" believe they are right. It's a viscious circle that never ends and the truth is that no one is right.

I can see it happening all over again with Iran. The US are squeezing their economy to within an inch of its life. It's all going to go go bust up and so the wheel turns and it all begins again etc.

[ArrowsFA1]

If you ask me it's the meek that are the problem.
Or the big noses :p

[Dave B]

If the numbers are not similar, and the reason for the killing similar, then there is no comparison and the Christian analogy is bogus, based on varying levels of bias.

Again this obsession with numbers! I can only repeat: If Religion A is resonsible for less deaths than Religion B, it doesn't follow that A is "better" than B. It simply means that a handful of followers of both faiths have used their religion for evil ends. A minority of Muslims subvert their holy text to justify behaviour we find offensive, illegal or immoral; but it's also true that so do a minority of Christians. Whether one group outnumbers the other, and by how many, is hardly the point.

[monadvspec]

Again this obsession with numbers! I can only repeat: If Religion A is responsible for less deaths than Religion B, it doesn't follow that A is "better" than B. It simply means that a handful of followers of both faiths have used their religion for evil ends. A minority of Muslims subvert their holy text to justify behavior we find offensive, illegal or immoral; but it's also true that so do a minority of Christians. Whether one group outnumbers the other, and by how many, is hardly the point.

Methinks some brain matter will be used just to understand the true logic of your point. You will then be hit with words such as "rhetoric" "bias" and his now "nothing comes from nothing" argument.

I know I am a new person here but Bob, why on earth are you so intolerant of logic. If you really believe your posts and retorts, to some of the responses to yours are full of intellectual

observations I am sorry for you. You actually inferred that Dawkins, the pre-eminent evolutionary scientist in the world is not bright then I fear your wattage is very low indeed.

[BDunnell]

Methinks some brain matter will be used just to understand the true logic of your point. You will then be hit with words such as "rhetoric" "bias" and his now "nothing comes from nothing" argument.

I think we could almost put together a response from Bob by cutting and pasting from all his previous posts on the topic.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

I think we could almost put together a response from Bob by cutting and pasting from all his previous posts on the topic.

Well do you expect the religious people to get any new evidence for their argument?

[Roamy]

Dhimmitude -- What does it mean?

Obama used it in the health care bill.

Now isn't this interesting? It is used in the health care law.

Dhimmitude -- I had never heard the word until now. Type it into Google and start reading.
Pretty interesting. It's on page 107 of the healthcare bill.
I looked this up on Google and yep, it exists.. It is a REAL word.

Word of the Day: Dhimmitude

Dhimmitude is the Muslim system of controlling non-Muslim populations conquered through
jihad. Specifically, it is the TAXING of non-Muslims in exchange for tolerating their
presence AND as a coercive means of converting conquered remnants to Islam.

ObamaCare allows the establishment of Dhimmitude and Sharia Muslim diktat in the United States.
Muslims are specifically exempted from the government mandate to purchase insurance, and
also from the penalty tax for being uninsured. Islam considers insurance to be "gambling",
"risk-taking", and "usury" and is thus banned. Muslims are specifically granted exemption
based on this.

How convenient. So I, as a Christian, will have crippling IRS liens placed against all of my assets,
including real estate, and even accounts receivables, and will face hard prison time because
I refuse to buy insurance or pay the penalty tax. Meanwhile, Louis Farrakhan will have no such
penalty and will have 100% of his health needs paid for by the de facto government insurance.
Non-Muslims will be paying a tax to subsidize Muslims. This is Dhimmitude.

[ArrowsFA1]

Dhimmitude -- What does it mean?

Is any of the chain e-mail true?

Health Care Bill Establishes Dhimmitude, Which Exempts Moslem Participation by Granting Them Jurisdiction in the U.S.-Fiction! (http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/d/dhimmitude.htm)

FactCheck.org : “Dhimmitude” and the Muslim Exemption (http://www.factcheck.org/2010/05/dhimmitude-and-the-muslim-exemption/)

Are Muslims Exempt from ObamaCare Insurance Mandate? - Urban Legends (http://urbanlegends.about.com/od/government/a/muslims_exempt_health_insurance_mandate.htm)

[Dave B]

Another cut and paste job from fousto with no fact checking. Must try harder. Myth busted.

[BDunnell]

Dhimmitude -- What does it mean?

Obama used it in the health care bill.

Now isn't this interesting? It is used in the health care law.

Dhimmitude -- I had never heard the word until now. Type it into Google and start reading.
Pretty interesting. It's on page 107 of the healthcare bill.
I looked this up on Google and yep, it exists.. It is a REAL word.

Word of the Day: Dhimmitude

Dhimmitude is the Muslim system of controlling non-Muslim populations conquered through
jihad. Specifically, it is the TAXING of non-Muslims in exchange for tolerating their
presence AND as a coercive means of converting conquered remnants to Islam.

ObamaCare allows the establishment of Dhimmitude and Sharia Muslim diktat in the United States.
Muslims are specifically exempted from the government mandate to purchase insurance, and
also from the penalty tax for being uninsured. Islam considers insurance to be "gambling",
"risk-taking", and "usury" and is thus banned. Muslims are specifically granted exemption
based on this.

How convenient. So I, as a Christian, will have crippling IRS liens placed against all of my assets,
including real estate, and even accounts receivables, and will face hard prison time because
I refuse to buy insurance or pay the penalty tax. Meanwhile, Louis Farrakhan will have no such
penalty and will have 100% of his health needs paid for by the de facto government insurance.
Non-Muslims will be paying a tax to subsidize Muslims. This is Dhimmitude.

If you are going to post on what is quite a complex topic, at least do the rest of us the decency of doing so in your own words — or stating that you've cut-and-pasted your contribution from somewhere else, rather than passing it off as your own.

[Bagwan]

"Dhimmitude" is a great example of how a good propagandist can whip up the masses .

Although surprising , in that it has three syllables , it sounds a bit like "attitude" , so will be easy to pronounce for those eating thier chicken fried steak , biscuits and gravy .

[SGWilko]

"Dhimmitude" is a great example of how a good propagandist can whip up the masses .

Although surprising , in that it has three syllables , it sounds a bit like "attitude" , so will be easy to pronounce for those eating thier chicken fried steak , biscuits and gravy .

Devouring might be a better noun for your example? ;)

[The Black Knight]

If you are going to post on what is quite a complex topic, at least do the rest of us the decency of doing so in your own words — or stating that you've cut-and-pasted your contribution from somewhere else, rather than passing it off as your own.

In fairness, it's glaringly obvious that Roamy's post is cut and paste. I don't see was any need for him to spell it out there.

[BDunnell]

In fairness, it's glaringly obvious that Roamy's post is cut and paste. I don't see was any need for him to spell it out there.

Of course it's glaringly obvious, but if I quote from another source I make it clear. The same seems to be true of most members.

[Bagwan]

Devouring might be a better noun for your example? ;)

OK , you confused me there .
Devouring is a verb .
Did you mean to replace "eating" , another verb ?

Or , to replace "whip" ?
Or "dhimmitude" ?

Or what ?
Just wondering . I'm lost there .

Or , perhaps you are just trying to confuse me so I'll join your weirdo cult . Hee hee .

[Dave B]

Not wholly relevant but how funny is this - a Christian group blaming sponsorship of "depraved" Gay Pride for Tesco's poor Xmas trading?

Shares dive as Tesco sales slump » Christian Voice UK (http://www.christianvoice.org.uk/?p=2548)

[race aficionado]

Not exactly for this thread - or probably it is . . . .

What a STUPID action of those peeing US soldiers!

[BDunnell]

Not exactly for this thread - or probably it is . . . .

What a STUPID action of those peeing US soldiers!

Especially years after such actions were 'fashionable' amongst Coalition forces.

[SGWilko]

OK , you confused me there .
Devouring is a verb .
Did you mean to replace "eating" , another verb ?

Or , to replace "whip" ?
Or "dhimmitude" ?

Or what ?
Just wondering . I'm lost there .

Or , perhaps you are just trying to confuse me so I'll join your weirdo cult . Hee hee .

Nothing of the sort old bean - I clearly wasn't paying attention in English lessons!!!!! I chose devoured (verb ;) ) because I had a vision of fried chicken being shovelled by the bucketload into the mouths of the unclean!

[SGWilko]

Not exactly for this thread - or probably it is . . . .

What a STUPID action of those peeing US soldiers!

Whatever happened to wars where, you knew who you were fighting because, like you, the enemy wore a uniform?

Oh what a lovely war? Not any more.

[BDunnell]

Whatever happened to wars where, you knew who you were fighting because, like you, the enemy wore a uniform?

What does that have to do with whether it's right to urinate on their bodies?

[Knock-on]

As for the age old debate between Christian believers and Atheists, nobody on here is ever going to change their mind and the debate will just rage on regardless.


Yep :s

[Bob Riebe]

[quote="monadvspec"]Methinks--- hmmm, not too thoroughly.

I know I am a new person here but Bob, why on earth are you so intolerant of logic.--- How would you know how tolerant of logic I am when near none has been presented by those whose rhetoric you prefer. --- If you really believe your posts and retorts, to some of the responses to yours are full of intellectual

observations I am sorry for you. You actually inferred that Dawkins, the pre-eminent evolutionary scientist in the world is not bright then I fear your wattage is very low indeed.-- LOL, if you think anyone who thinks life originated from crystals is bright, then I feel very sorry for you.

[Bob Riebe]

I think we could almost put together a response from Bob by cutting and pasting from all his previous posts on the topic.And the same could be done for you also.

[Bob Riebe]

Not wholly relevant but how funny is this - a Christian group blaming sponsorship of "depraved" Gay Pride for Tesco's poor Xmas trading?

Shares dive as Tesco sales slump » Christian Voice UK (http://www.christianvoice.org.uk/?p=2548)This has what to do the "real Islam"?

Why don't you simply start a thread for trashing Christians, instead of hiding it in this one?

[donKey jote]

Back on topic, sort of ;) :p

Lowe's pulls ads from Muslim reality show after ordinary portrayal protested | Inside TV | EW.com (http://insidetv.ew.com/2011/12/09/ads-all-american-muslim/)
“Clearly this program is attempting to manipulate Americans into ignoring the threat of jihad"

Conservative Florida group in Lowe's flap has history of protests against gay rights, strip clubs | Detroit Free Press | freep.com (http://www.freep.com/article/20111213/NEWS05/111213040/Lowe-s-All-American-Muslim-pulling-ads-conservative-group)

Hard to decide who's more of a donkey: the floridan nutter association, or Lowe's for caving in to nutters :dozey:

[Brown, Jon Brow]

LOL, if you think anyone who thinks life originated from crystals is bright, then I feel very sorry for you.[/b]

All you are announcing here is 'I don't understand The Sweet Crystal Hypothesis'.

[markabilly]

All religions begin with man trying to know the unknowable and give meaning and hope to his/her life.
It developes into various groups of beliefs and slides downhill from there.


how can the finite know the infinite?

We can not even count all the stars known to exist

[monadvspec]

Methinks--- hmmm, not too thoroughly.

I know I am a new person here but Bob, why on earth are you so intolerant of logic.--- How would you know how tolerant of logic I am when near none has been presented by those whose rhetoric you prefer. --- If you really believe your posts and retorts, to some of the responses to yours are full of intellectual

observations I am sorry for you. You actually inferred that Dawkins, the pre-eminent evolutionary scientist in the world is not bright then I fear your wattage is very low indeed.-- LOL, if you think anyone who thinks life originated from crystals is bright, then I feel very sorry for you.

There has been an abundance of logic presented but because of the awkward need to decry anything that is logical, you just ignored it or you do not understand it. You finished up your response to my post to you with an imbecilic,simplistic and lack of intellectual curiosity with a very poor example as to what Dawkins believes and shares. One word, "crystals" is not the some of the reasoning that Professor Dawkins uses to try to explain his theory on how life originated.
The most telling part of all for me Bob is that you do not address any posters threads or argue your point if you had one. You just follow their words with snide remarks as you did mine and then believe that you have won a contest. This, I believe is a debate of sorts and you have chosen not to participate.

[airshifter]

Back on topic, sort of ;) :p

Lowe's pulls ads from Muslim reality show after ordinary portrayal protested | Inside TV | EW.com (http://insidetv.ew.com/2011/12/09/ads-all-american-muslim/)
“Clearly this program is attempting to manipulate Americans into ignoring the threat of jihad"

Conservative Florida group in Lowe's flap has history of protests against gay rights, strip clubs | Detroit Free Press | freep.com (http://www.freep.com/article/20111213/NEWS05/111213040/Lowe-s-All-American-Muslim-pulling-ads-conservative-group)

Hard to decide who's more of a donkey: the floridan nutter association, or Lowe's for caving in to nutters :dozey:

Lowes is the biggest donkey in this situation. If they had even briefly watched any part of any of the shows they would realize it's about as far as you can get from any radicals. I've shifted buying from Lowes to driving a little further to buy from Home Depot. I have no tolerance for corporations so easily swayed by radical groups.

[donKey jote]

If they had even briefly watched any part of any of the shows they would realize it's about as far as you can get from any radicals.
That's precisely the point the florida radical group was making... the show wasn't portraying them as 'real muslims' - i.e. radical jihadi islamists :laugh: :dozey:

[Bob Riebe]

All you are announcing here is 'I don't understand The Sweet Crystal Hypothesis'.If you so wish.

[Bob Riebe]

There has been an abundance of logic presented but because of the awkward need to decry anything that is logical, you just ignored it or you do not understand it. You finished up your response to my post to you with an imbecilic,simplistic and lack of intellectual curiosity with a very poor example as to what Dawkins believes and shares. One word, "crystals" is not the some of the reasoning that Professor Dawkins uses to try to explain his theory on how life originated.
The most telling part of all for me Bob is that you do not address any posters threads or argue your point if you had one. You just follow their words with snide remarks as you did mine and then believe that you have won a contest. This, I believe is a debate of sorts and you have chosen not to participate.That is your opinion formed by the bias you prefer.

[monadvspec]

That is your opinion formed by the bias you prefer.

Bob, surely you can come up with a retort a little more intellectual than that one line childish sentence. I form my opinions as I'm sure most others by areading , asking questions, listening and research. You have shown yourself to be an immovable object when it comes to a topic. That I consider is complete and utter narrow minded bias shaped by being told rather than learning.

[Roamy]

You can't accuse someone of bias if you yourself are firmly on one side of the arguement and incapable of discussing anyone elses opinion.

Really - Is anyone Non-biased

[Bob Riebe]

Bob, surely you can come up with a retort a little more intellectual than that one line childish sentence. I form my opinions as I'm sure most others by areading , asking questions, listening and research. You have shown yourself to be an immovable object when it comes to a topic. That I consider is complete and utter narrow minded bias shaped by being told rather than learning.So you take offense at people who do not bend depending on how the wind is blowing at the moment.

My, my typical liberal think.

If someone can give me a reason to rethink what I have learned through the realities, niceties and miseries, of life, I will; until then I have no reason to.

As this thread is not about me, it really makes no difference, but then as few can add anything to this thread other than to make childish insults about Christians, the fact that does not bother you, while my benevolent replies seem to be a burr under your saddle, simply amplifies the bias you have espoused yourself to, or seem to have.

What ever floats your boat, que sera, sera

[SGWilko]

What does that have to do with whether it's right to urinate on their bodies?

Nothing - was just a general observation about the enemy that uses civilians as cover, has no uniform and therefore is technically invisible.

[Bagwan]

The title of this thread is oxymoronic , in that it associates the word "real" with religion .

[SGWilko]

The title of this thread is oxymoronic , in that it associates the word "real" with religion .

Religion and faith are real, just the ability to supply factual evidence of the existence of the leaders of each religion that has, as yet, to have proved them as real.

[Bagwan]

Religion and faith are real, just the ability to supply factual evidence of the existence of the leaders of each religion that has, as yet, to have proved them as real.

So , real , but not based on reality .

Real snakes don't talk .

[SGWilko]

So , real , but not based on reality .

Real snakes don't talk .

What? y y you mean that parceltongue is 'made up'? :bigcry:

[Bagwan]

What? y y you mean that parceltongue is 'made up'? :bigcry:

Does it contain the word for "apple" ?

[monadvspec]

So you take offense at people who do not bend depending on how the wind is blowing at the moment.

My, my typical liberal think.

If someone can give me a reason to rethink what I have learned through the realities, niceties and miseries, of life, I will; until then I have no reason to.

As this thread is not about me, it really makes no difference, but then as few can add anything to this thread other than to make childish insults about Christians, the fact that does not bother you, while my benevolent replies seem to be a burr under your saddle, simply amplifies the bias you have espoused yourself to, or seem to have.

What ever floats your boat, que sera, sera
One thing you could do for me before I respond and that is to take my words out of your "originally posted by Bob Riebe.

To your comment. I honestly believe you do not think! You are an antagonist and all you want to do is argue. You argue for the war when Bush was president to save the Iraqi Muslim people from Hussein and now you have no regard for the very people that you desired. You are a one trick pony. Because I disagree with you you believe that I am a liberal. If you believe that being liberal in thinking is worse than puritanical inquisitively right wing conservative thinking then brand me as you wish.

[Roamy]

One thing you could do for me before I respond and that is to take my words out of your "originally posted by Bob Riebe.

To your comment. I honestly believe you do not think! You are an antagonist and all you want to do is argue. You argue for the war when Bush was president to save the Iraqi Muslim people from Hussein and now you have no regard for the very people that you desired. You are a one trick pony. Because I disagree with you you believe that I am a liberal. If you believe that being liberal in thinking is worse than puritanical inquisitively right wing conservative thinking then brand me as you wish.

monadvspec I think the Iraq was was a bit deeper that most people realize. Many just want to paste the oil tag on it and you bringing up the Muslim/sunni issue is actually quite good but we need to support people that are in our interests. Although we are doing a sh!tty job there are just so many people that need to be blown up and we just can't do it a few at a time.. We will probably get better at this the more people fck with us. I see bigger bombs and more collateral damage on the horizon. Shame but for some reason people don't like us. The nukes are coming and hopefully your not downwind

[JackSparrow]

Religion and faith are real, just the ability to supply factual evidence of the existence of the leaders of each religion that has, as yet, to have proved them as real.
You mean people still believe Eve came from Adam's rib?

[Knock-on]

Really - Is anyone Non-biased

Yes, ME!! And anyone that says different is an illogical dunderhead with rabbit droppings for brains.

Now we have resolved that whatever I say is correct, we can move on :p

[BDunnell]

Really - Is anyone Non-biased

There is a difference, in my view, between bias and the forming of an opinion based on reason.

[BDunnell]

I can't imagine why.

The inability of right-wing Americans to use the quote function on a forum properly?