End Of The Road For Newman/Haas [Archive]

00steven

1st December 2011, 21:35

This is very sad. One of the greatest teams in open wheel history, some of the best drivers in motorsport history as well. Mario, Michael, Nigel, Bourdais, etc. I hope the best for everybody, I don't think Oriol and Hinch will be on the market for too long.

anthonyvop

1st December 2011, 21:38

Last to know

@Hinchtown
James Hinchcliffe
"Well, today started great..."

Oriol, who lives on Twitter has been silent since last evening

NY2IA

1st December 2011, 22:35

Sad news indeed. Favorite memories includes meeting Nigel Mansel at Road America when he was driving for Newman Haas. They had a tent set up for fans to meet their drivers, sign autographs and take pictures. Thanks for the memories.....

Nikki Katz

1st December 2011, 22:51

Really really bad news. Up until a couple of months ago IndyCar was looking really healthy, best shape since the split arguably. Since then, we've had Vegas, a very shakey looking calendar released, and now one of the big teams with two underrated drivers that could easily have picked up wins next year is no more.

I'm hoping that, rather than a sign of things to come for IndyCar, this is really because of the team's uncertain direction, i.e. Newman dying, Haas being quite elderly and not in brilliant health, and Lanigan getting bored again (as he always does) and jumping to another team (again).

champcarray

1st December 2011, 23:19

That's very sad and bad news... It's hard to believe that the team I've been rooting for all these years, the one that got me seriously interested in CART way back when they signed on Mario, is closing its doors.

Chris R

1st December 2011, 23:30

anthonyvop

1st December 2011, 23:42

I am not sure this is "bad news for the series" in the sense that the demise of the team has more to do with the demise of one owner and ill health of the other than it does the health of the series.... Not that it is good news - just that sometimes good things come to an end.....

The Question is will they be the last?

Especially considering that most of the teams are faced with warehouses full of obsolete equipment and are forced to buy new cars and parts.

Chris R

1st December 2011, 23:44

time will tell, probably not the last - but I do not think it is necessarily portends of things to come in and of itself.....

libra65

1st December 2011, 23:45

So sorry to hear this. I guess it shouldn't be a surprise as Carl is not well & Paul passed away. N/H racing had a long history and gave me some great racing memories.

Dagger

2nd December 2011, 00:15

DBell

2nd December 2011, 00:37

Newman/Haas withdrawing is a surprise in some instances, and not so in others. Always a class operation and until lately at the pointy end of the spear. Thanks for the great memories to everyone who ever has been involved with one of America's great race teams.

I agree. after Paul's passing and considering Carl's age, I wondered how long the team would last. Sadly, the answer was only a few more years. I hope Servia and Hinch find new rides. Thanks for all the memories N/H. You all were my team back in the day. End of an era for sure.

nigelred5

2nd December 2011, 02:27

I'm crushed that my favorite team in indycars is no more. I have to agree though, I think we knew it was coming in the next year or two. It makes sense financially for Haas to leave prior to buying all new equipment. There's a lot of quality folks at NH. I was really looking forward to seeing Hinch in a full season with a Quality team next year. and I'm bumed to see Hinch and Oriol with out rides after pretty good seasons for both.

Phoenixent

2nd December 2011, 03:46

After seeing NH Racing at Long Beach this I was surprised they lasted the season. The team was a mere shadow of their former glory and it was painful seeing them that way after years of being one of the top teams. I believe there will be good things coming from this as the drivers move to other teams and someone will buy the teams assets to form another team.

Thanks to all those who are or were part of Newman/Haas Racing for almost 30 years of GREAT Indycar racing. We will always remember your hard charging drivers and great crews working toward victory.

F1boat

2nd December 2011, 07:17

That's sad. Like, if Williams leave F1, it will be the same. Very bad. Newman-Haas was a great team. But now Paul is gone and it is understandable that the team follows :(

garyshell

2nd December 2011, 07:39

I am not sure this is "bad news for the series" in the sense that the demise of the team has more to do with the demise of one owner and ill health of the other than it does the health of the series.... Not that it is good news - just that sometimes good things come to an end.....

Spot on Chris. I am sure that none of us are really surprised by this at all. After Paul's death I expected this to happen a lot sooner than it did. Carl ha been out of the picture for quite some time.

Gary

I am evil Homer

2nd December 2011, 10:14

Agreed it's a real shame NH is no more but the clock was ticking because it was built around those two guys. That was part of the appeal but also the one negative - it was their team, doing things their way. Once Paul died and Carl's health became increasingly worse the writing was on the wall unfortunately.

Be nice to think a new team, with the same spirit and intent could rise from this but right now with the series the way it is and the economy shakey I can't see it happening. Hinch and Oriol are simply too good to not have drives and i'm sure they'll find a way to make the grid.

SarahFan

2nd December 2011, 10:39

It's interesting that everyone seems to be contributing this to the loss of Newman and the age of Hass... Yet straight from haas' mouth the reason is the 'economic climate'

I am evil Homer

2nd December 2011, 11:53

I believe that's called PR spin. Sure it's a big factor but can't say his age and the loss of a major backer hasn't led to a decline in the team's fortunes to a point where it's now easier to leave before having to fork out for new cars.

Blancvino

2nd December 2011, 12:32

Can Penske be all that far behind?

DBell

2nd December 2011, 13:41

It's interesting that everyone seems to be contributing this to the loss of Newman and the age of Hass... Yet straight from haas' mouth the reason is the 'economic climate'

I think the two go hand in hand. Once Paul passed, their ability to attract sponsors seem to vanish. Even in the CC years, they were the best sponsored team in CC. I think if Paul and Carl were still able to run things, they wouldn't be shutting the doors, even in this bad economy.

FIAT1

2nd December 2011, 14:48

Thank you Carl Haas and (RIP Paul Newman) for years of great racing and beatiful memories.

SarahFan

2nd December 2011, 16:04

PR spin would have been just the opposite...

bblocker68

2nd December 2011, 17:12

Sad to see it finally come to pass.

Here's some photos from another site:

AUTO RACING - PHOTOS: Newman/Haas Racing Throughout The Years (http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/photos-newman-haas-racing-throughout-the-years)

Chris R

2nd December 2011, 18:31

Can Penske be all that far behind?

Perhaps not , while I tend to think Penske is likely more like Ferrari (the team and philosophy will outlive the man) - there is no denying that RP is "the man" who drive his whole corporation... While his vast holdings will undoubtedly continue in some form or another, they will not be "the same"..

Someone else mentioned that racing has always been driven by wealthy team owners who are willing to spend at least some of their own money to go racing - that is absolutely the case... As such these wealthy individuals gain and lose interest, the gain and lose fortunes and they grow old and die - as long as there is someone coming along to replace them, all willbe well (even if the economy stinks)...

As for someone saying this is PR spin - there is a little truth to that in that if the series was super healthy that the team could likely find a buyer and/or sponsorship but the other truth of the situation is that if PLN was still alive (and younger) and the Haas' were younger they would have the drive, desire and finances to continue regardless....

Independently of indycar, this team has run its course - it was an awesome run and it joins such luminaries as AAR, Leader Cards Racing, Lou Moore Racing, Patrick Racing, Granatelli, Jim Hall Racing, Truesports, Shierson, Galles, John Zink Racing, Harry Miller, The Dusenbergs etc. in the annals of racing history.....

Andrewmcm

2nd December 2011, 21:08

I guess the moral of the story here is that nothing lasts forever.

elan 02

3rd December 2011, 02:14

Bruno,Bourdais,Servia,Hinch, Thanks it was great fun to watch all of you excel the last 10 years RIP PN

FormerFF

3rd December 2011, 03:29

I guess the moral of the story here is that nothing lasts forever.

Especially in racing, where change is the only constant.

DBell

3rd December 2011, 03:49

It seems it's the end of the road for N/H in IndyCar, but not for the team, as the team remains in operation. They are keeping 10 people and rumors are they are going to ALMS. All this according to this article at Speed.

AUTO RACING - INDYCAR: Newman/Haas Moving Ahead With Streamlined Operation (http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/indycar-newman-haas-moving-ahead-with-streamlined-operation/)

anthonyvop

3rd December 2011, 03:53

DanicaFan

3rd December 2011, 18:26

I think thats a bad move going to the ALMS.

nigelred5

3rd December 2011, 20:11

Can Penske be all that far behind?

I think Penske's companies give him a little more opportunity to sponsor himself.

nigelred5

3rd December 2011, 20:24

Bruno,Bourdais,Servia,Hinch, Thanks it was great fun to watch all of you excel the last 10 years RIP PN

......Mario, Michael,Paul, Nigel, Christian, Christiano, Roberto, Graham, Justin.... A long list of very good drivers that have spent time in a Newman Haas Indycar over the past 29 years.

nigelred5

3rd December 2011, 20:29

I think thats a bad move going to the ALMS.

Why, going to a series that runs a shorter season(well, maybe not THAT much shorter it seems) in a significanly cheaper car.... with lower paid drivers, yet at several of the same events in addition to tracks they may actially enjoy going to that Indycar doesn't? Hell, I'd love to see them take a crack at Lemans..

anthonyvop

4th December 2011, 01:21

I think thats a bad move going to the ALMS.

With all due respect you consider Danica Patrick a Championship Caliber Driver.

Right now the ALMS is the series in North America that is growing the most with more manufacturer support.

Anubis

4th December 2011, 14:06

I think thats a bad move going to the ALMS.

Care to elaborate why?

methanolHuffer

4th December 2011, 19:27

I think it was a good run for a smart team owner, considering he was not a hero to all.

I really wont miss Haas. I still blame him for complaining away Porsche from the good old days. Being the importer of Lolas at the time, and capt Penske building his own, they pretty much lobbied the March/Porsche off the grid.

Porsche were not throwing bags of money at the project - they were really budgetied low and yet coming up with innovations for the time. So they got screwed on a change of regs when they were well past the point of redesigning a chassis. And Haas and Penske made that regulation happen.

MAX_THRUST

6th December 2011, 18:30

Sorry to hear they are shutting shop. With out NH Champ car would have shut down when all the teams left. I'm so grateful for all the good memories even Bourdais winning all the time. End of an era, bit like When Pat Patrick team closed, PacWest closed, and the real team Green, or Players Forsythe. NH were one of the biggest teams in Indy Car for many years.

Blancvino

6th December 2011, 20:20

I was referring to RP age. I am no fan of RP but the guy is a racing genius.

FormerFF

7th December 2011, 02:27

Tim Cindric & co. will keep Penske Racing going long after Roger has departed.

mike15

7th December 2011, 15:06

What I find interesting is that there was no one in the organization that could continue on with the team and no transition plan. I suspect Lanigans move to Rahal/Letterman was a sign of things to come with NH racing.
Penske is not a young man, so you have to ask is there any kind of transition in the Penske organization to continue the team without Penske?

Lee Roy

7th December 2011, 16:08

Penske is not a young man, so you have to ask is there any kind of transition in the Penske organization to continue the team without Penske?

I think that has more to do with what happens to the Penske NASCAR operation. The Penske Indy Car team is an afterthought to the NASCAR team.

nigelred5

7th December 2011, 17:10

I think that has more to do with what happens to the Penske NASCAR operation. The Penske Indy Car team is an afterthought to the NASCAR team.

Hmmmm, not sure I totally agree with that. Granted they combined operations in North Carolina for a lot of reasons, and competing in NASCAR has required a lot motre attention, but with their total lack of success, If RP's Priority is NASCAR.... I'd rather be an afterthought.

Lee Roy

7th December 2011, 17:45

Hmmmm, not sure I totally agree with that. Granted they combined operations in North Carolina for a lot of reasons, and competing in NASCAR has required a lot motre attention,

Penske Racing - About (http://www.penskeracing.com/about/index.cfm?cid=14190)

This says that the Penske campus at Concord NC is 424,697 square feet, and the Indy Car team occupies 55,843 in the back of those sf.

A separate entrance exists for the IndyCar Series teams, which had its facilities constructed in the main building behind the NASCAR shop.

Also, the NASCAR area contains:
Also contained in the building's NASCAR section are 17 surface plates, three paint booths, three body prep stations, a Rapid Prototyping Department and an aero scale model shop.

Think of it this way, if life's checkered flag were to fall and Penske went to that big race track in the sky, resulting in Penske Motorsports being up for sale, what type of team owner would buy it, someone with an eye towards NASCAR or someone with an eye towards Indy Car? What is there in Penske's Indy Car team to own except for a eight cars with spare parts and a couple of haulers?

In the faq section.

How many cars exist at the Penske Racing facility?

NASCAR Cup Series: 55 and 1 pit stop car
NASCAR Nationwide Series: 11 cars
IndyCar Series: 7 and 1 pit stop car

Chris R

7th December 2011, 18:03

I think the NASCAR business model actually allows teams to have unique facilities that have an inherent value to other people who want to compete in the series - i.e. - it would likely cost more to replicate Penske's NASCAR operation than to buy it. That is the positive aspect of each team being responsible for their own chassis construction, testing etc....

In Indycar you have a spec chassis you buy, engines you lease and a limited testing program - the bulk of your assets are contracts of one sort of another (employment, sponsorship, engine leases etc.) - so the cost of replicating your team is probably LESS than buying it since contracts are really not all that valuable to third parties.....

Perhaps the team owners need to think about this cost cutting model they have asked for and look at the older model of each team building their own stuff etc. so they can actually build equity.....

Lee Roy

7th December 2011, 18:15

Doesn't Ganassi have his own Indy Car facilites in Indy?

SarahFan

7th December 2011, 18:17

If NASCAR and infycar are racing on the same day are Roger and Tim at the NASCAR race or the Indycar race?

Lee Roy

7th December 2011, 18:31

If NASCAR and infycar are racing on the same day are Roger and Tim at the NASCAR race or the Indycar race?

At the Indy Car race. But the question is, if Roger Penske is no longer involved, at which race will the new owner of what is now Penske Motorsports be? Will he/she have the same passion (or even interest) for Indy Car racing that Penske currently has?

This isn't an Indy Car/NASCAR schwanz waving contest, this is a real question of what will become of the Penske Indy Car team after Penske is no longer involved. From the way things are structured at Penske Motorsports, it appears that the only thing you can count on for keeping the Indy Car team going is Penske's passion for Indy Car racing.

SarahFan

7th December 2011, 18:43

You made Statemt that the penske indycar program is an after thought to the NASCAR program ..

Clearly that is a false Statemt

What the future holds who knows.... But it has been reported and confirmed that Tim cindric is currently the major stake holder in penske racing .....and will take over full ownership at some point..... He seems to also have a passion for Indycar

Lee Roy

7th December 2011, 18:55

You made Statemt that the penske indycar program is an after thought to the NASCAR program ..

Clearly that is a false Statemt

I guess that depends on your point of view.

SarahFan

7th December 2011, 18:56

From Utah it's crystal clear

anthonyvop

7th December 2011, 19:04

Hmmmm, not sure I totally agree with that. Granted they combined operations in North Carolina for a lot of reasons, and competing in NASCAR has required a lot motre attention, but with their total lack of success, If RP's Priority is NASCAR.... I'd rather be an afterthought.

NASCAR pays the Bills.

The Captain and Tim Cindric attend the IndyCar races because they are actually calling the races and are heavily involved as that is their background. In NASCAR they pay some top people to run the team.

Look at Mercedes. In the DTM Norbert Haug is running the show but in F1 he is standing in the background.

SarahFan

7th December 2011, 19:12

Your statent was not Only false but equAlly as stupid

Lee Roy

7th December 2011, 19:17

From Utah it's crystal clear

From North Carolina it's 13% of the floor space . . . . in the back.

chuck34

7th December 2011, 19:42

I guess that depends on your point of view.

It doesn't depend on your point of view at all. Tim Cindric will take over that unfortunate day that RP leaves us. He is an IndyCar guy through and through. That's why RP has picked him. If the day comes that a choice must be made to jettison one operation or another, I'd bet you dollars to donuts that Cindric would sell off the NASCAR operation, and buy a new shop for the IndyCar guys.

SarahFan

7th December 2011, 20:00

Penske trucking dwarfs the NASCAR program.... Clearly the faculty in charlotte is an after thought

^that sure sounds ignorant

garyshell

7th December 2011, 20:06

I think that has more to do with what happens to the Penske NASCAR operation. The Penske Indy Car team is an afterthought to the NASCAR team.

On a weekend when Indycar and NASCAR both run, on which pit stand is Roger sitting calling the shots? Now explain to me again about this afterthough business.

Gary

Lee Roy

7th December 2011, 20:16

Penske trucking dwarfs the NASCAR program.... Clearly the faculty in charlotte is an after thought

^that sure sounds ignorant

Where does Penske Trucking race?

chuck34

7th December 2011, 20:55

Where does Penske Trucking race?

Well they do sponsor an IndyCar from time to time. :D

Chris R

8th December 2011, 00:02

Indycar is not an afterthought - it is Penske's real racing passion. He has come and gone in NASCAR, he has stayed in Indycar. He has run Indycar out of his own pocket - not so (much) with NASCAR. He makes sure his Indycar team is the best and wins a whole bunch. He seems pretty content with an above average NASCAR (to me that is the real tell)....

And, yes, Penske trucking is bigger than any of his racing enterprises - so it is very valid to point out that just because one of his business interests is bigger it does not mean the others are an "afterthought".... .

If you want to know what RP really likes - see what races he shows up at, what teams are run to his full standards and which one he EXPECTS to get results, and which one he cares enough about to do the job himself instead of paying someone mad money to do it for him.....

nigelred5

8th December 2011, 00:57

There's no need for a 400k sq ft facility to run a 3 car team in a spec series with leased engines, flexible flex chassis and extremely limited development. Penske no longer had a need for owning his own engine company, his own design and manufacturing facility in England, or even his own race tracks where he was able to test whenever they wanted or needed to. I don't see his participation as an afterthought at all, considering he's always at Indycar races and rarely at the NASCAR races. Hell, he's been at Grand Am races in the past when they conflicted with NASCAR. I don't even know if I would consider Penske's NASCAR operation much above average in recent years. It's just Roger's way of always having a seat when the music stops. He's got plans for All of his companies, including the combined racing operation.

mike15

10th December 2011, 16:58

From Penske's history there is only one race that stands above all and that is the Indy 500. At Indy he doses not care who the competition is or is not, winning that race has always been and will always be his highest priority. If the Daytona 500 and Indy500 were on the same day Penske would be at Indy.