Middle East Battle Plan

[Roamy]

I figured I better start this thread as Pino is threatening to run us out every time we mention Israel. So maybe we can keep all out CURRENT events on this thread.

So I predict that all no africa and the middle east will fall under EXTREME muslim control. With that on the horizon what is the battle plan for Israel.

I think Israel in the future will be pressed into a major military conflict and unfortunately it may be one where they just wait for a westerly wind and nuke it all.

I think it will be very unlikely some nation will be able to severely impact Israel without setting off the nukes. I think a major strike and successful strike against Iran's nuke program may extend the peace for perhaps another 5 to 10 years.

I don't think the T.I.R.Es and India are getting big picture here. Of course with a Westerly wind the T.I.R.Es will probably come out quite well.

what say all you Doves??

[race aficionado]

peace dammit!!!!!
:s mokin:

*I'm predictable . . . I know. :wave:

[Gregor-y]

I think Arab governments will become more representative and focus on their own shortcomings over the last fifty years and less on Israel, which will devolve into a belligerent segregated theocracy supported by a small number of wealthy yet deranged Americans who think it's the best way to promote Armageddon and prompt the return of Jesus. Luckily for us all James Bond will put a stop to all this nonsense.

[Roamy]

Ok Now time for the vote Poll Please Pino

Should Iran be allowed to have nuclear weapons??

[schmenke]

Well there's no doubt in my mind that Ahmadinnerjacket is developing a nuclear program for more than just peaceful purposes.
However, I don’t believe that he would actually lob nuclear tipped warhead missles at Israel.

[Eki]

I figured I better start this thread as Pino is threatening to run us out every time we mention Israel. So maybe we can keep all out CURRENT events on this thread.

So I predict that all no africa and the middle east will fall under EXTREME muslim control. With that on the horizon what is the battle plan for Israel.

I think Israel in the future will be pressed into a major military conflict and unfortunately it may be one where they just wait for a westerly wind and nuke it all.

I think it will be very unlikely some nation will be able to severely impact Israel without setting off the nukes. I think a major strike and successful strike against Iran's nuke program may extend the peace for perhaps another 5 to 10 years.

I don't think the T.I.R.Es and India are getting big picture here. Of course with a Westerly wind the T.I.R.Es will probably come out quite well.

what say all you Doves??
Israel is smaller than Iran, so I think a major strike and successful strike against Israel's nukes would be a better idea. They are on a small area, so I think they could be taken out in a forceful surprise attack (blitzkrieg). Then there wouldn't be any Israel left to fight about either. Problem solved.

[chuck34]

Well there's no doubt in my mind that Ahmadinnerjacket is developing a nuclear program for more than just peaceful purposes.
However, I don’t believe that he would actually lob nuclear tipped warhead missles at Israel.

Ah but is this true? I have heard reports that he has stated he wants to "wipe Israel off the map", and that he believes he's the one that will bring the last Mhadi or whatever he's called, and to do that a large war must be started. If those reports are true (and I'll grant you they may not be) then this is not someone who would be a rational player under the M.A.D. mindset.

[Eki]

he has stated he wants to "wipe Israel off the map",
So? I'd also prefer there read for example Palestine on the map instead of Israel. That could be done without nuclear weapons or war, especially if Israel didn't resist.

[Rollo]

So? I'd also prefer there read for example Palestine on the map instead of Israel. That could be done without nuclear weapons or war, especially if Israel didn't resist.

Would you expel the Jews? If so, where do you propose that they go?

[ioan]

Would you expel the Jews? If so, where do you propose that they go?

Where did they come from?

[Rollo]

A little over two-thirds were born there, roughly a fifth came from Europe whilst the remaining tenth came from Asia and Africa. Almost half of all Jews living in Israel either fled persecution or were descended from people who did.

I suppose that we could just send them all back. Goodness knows the world needs them to be butchered again.

[ioan]

A little over two-thirds were born there, roughly a fifth came from Europe whilst the remaining tenth came from Asia and Africa. Almost half of all Jews living in Israel either fled persecution or were descended from people who did.

I suppose that we could just send them all back. Goodness knows the world needs them to be butchered again.

They are doing a good job pushing out Palestinians from where they lived for centuries, why shouldn't this work both ways?

The biggest issue is that the US and the UK created this huge problem with an ill thought move 60+ years ago, good luck solving it now.
Sooner or later Palestine will be recognized as a sovereign country and then the sh!t will hit the fan.

[ShiftingGears]

I don't see why the US insists on giving billions in aid to Israel to be honest, besides lobby group pressure.

Regardless of your position, Israel is more than capable of defending itself without leeching money off the USA, so much moreso than pretty much all other US allies, who don't get billions in aid money.

[Roamy]

I don't see why the US insists on giving billions in aid to Israel to be honest, besides lobby group pressure.

Regardless of your position, Israel is more than capable of defending itself without leeching money off the USA, so much moreso than pretty much all other US allies, who don't get billions in aid money.

yes and I don't see why we give billions to pakistan, egypt, africa on and on. I think Perry has it right. Everyone goes to 0 every year and we evaluate from there.

[Roamy]

Israel is smaller than Iran, so I think a major strike and successful strike against Israel's nukes would be a better idea. They are on a small area, so I think they could be taken out in a forceful surprise attack (blitzkrieg). Then there wouldn't be any Israel left to fight about either. Problem solved.

Then EKI what if Israel just detonates the weapons in place??? I have heard as many as 2000 warheads.

[ShiftingGears]

yes and I don't see why we give billions to pakistan, egypt, africa on and on. I think Perry has it right. Everyone goes to 0 every year and we evaluate from there.

Indeed, especially Pakistan, who has not proven themselves to be the most trustworthy or transparent ally. to say the least.

[Eki]

Then EKI what if Israel just detonates the weapons in place??? I have heard as many as 2000 warheads.
Then there'd be a huge glazed parking lot where once used to be Israel.

[Knock-on]

A state was created for what was a very valid reason. It's not the first state to have been created since then but does seem to be the most contentious because of what; religion. Yet again :(

However, lets slide that aside until a few pages later in this thread when it degenerates into a bun fight before being locked ;)

So, what can be done now?

Diplomacy - pure and simple. It's not going to work any other way. With advances in weaponry and more and more weapons grade nuclear material and biological weapons being traded on the Black Market: Diplomacy has to work. There is no other viable answer.

Of course, there is a non-viable answer and we all fear an escalation of violence into something catastrophic. Hell, there are 3 regions that could go that way: Pakistan and India, Israel and Middle East and Korea. All we need is a fanatic or a despot with a psychotic desire for power. Fortunately, they are not as common as we fear.

Or lets hope so :s

[schmenke]

I don't see why the US insists on giving billions in aid to Israel to be honest,...y.

A couple of reasons:

1. The U.S. needs stability in that region. Without U.S. support Israel would be attacked by its neighbours resulting in all out war putting the supply of petroleum from that region in jeopardy.

2. The Jews have much influence in both U.S. politics (voters) and financial institutions (banks).

[race aficionado]

Well there's no doubt in my mind that Ahmadinnerjacket is developing a nuclear program for more than just peaceful purposes.
However, I don’t believe that he would actually lob nuclear tipped warhead missles at Israel.

I just read a quote in Time Magazine that paints the sad reality of our current "war game".

From an Iranian citizen's comment on facebook:

"A nuclear bomb is actually a very good thing. If we get one, we cannot be invaded."

[Rollo]

A state was created for what was a very valid reason. It's not the first state to have been created since then but does seem to be the most contentious because of what; religion. Yet again :(

From the Torah (for the Jews):

Dvarim: 10:19
And you are to love those who are aliens, for you yourselves were aliens in Egypt.[i]
Shmot 22:21
[i]Do not mistreat an alien or oppress him, for you were aliens in Egypt

From the Neviim (for the Jews):
Y'khezqel 47:22
You are to allot it as an inheritance for yourselves and for the aliens who have settled among you and who have children. You are to consider them as native-born Israelites; along with you they are to be allotted an inheritance among the tribes of Israel.

From the Qu'ran (for the Muslims)

Sura 5:20-21
Recall that Moses said to his people (the Jews), “O my people, remember GOD’s blessings upon you: He appointed prophets from among you, made you kings, and granted you what He never granted any other people.
“O my people, enter the holy land (Israel) that GOD has decreed for you, and do not rebel, lest you become losers.”

Sura 17:104
And We said thereafter to the Children of Israel, “Dwell securely in the land (of promise)”: but when the second of the warnings came to pass, We gathered you together in a mingled crowd.

Let's not bring religion into this, because the writing of both religions clearly tell both sides to put up, shut up, and get along. Rather, it's a failure to follow their religion in the pursuit of naked greed.
This is nothing more than *******ry perpetuated by two groups of murderous thugs.

[Eki]

I just read a quote in Time Magazine that paints the sad reality of our current "war game".

From an Iranian citizen's comment on facebook:

"A nuclear bomb is actually a very good thing. If we get one, we cannot be invaded."
I'm sure you can safely substitute "Iranian" in that comment with "Israeli", or with "American". Pot and kettle.

[race aficionado]

I'm sure you can safely substitute "Iranian" in that comment with "Israeli or with "American". Pot and kettle.".

. . . and all the rest of the countries that have nuclear bomb capabilities.

As a country, you will be approached differently once you are known to have one of those "game enders".

[ioan]

I just read a quote in Time Magazine that paints the sad reality of our current "war game".

From an Iranian citizen's comment on facebook:

"A nuclear bomb is actually a very good thing. If we get one, we cannot be invaded."

I say he has a rather OK view of the usefulness of a MDW.

[Bob Riebe]

Israel is smaller than Iran, so I think a major strike and successful strike against Israel's nukes would be a better idea. They are on a small area, so I think they could be taken out in a forceful surprise attack (blitzkrieg). Then there wouldn't be any Israel left to fight about either. Problem solved.
OH-OH Eki got into the wine bottle and is having delustional dreams again.
Happy dance time http://foolstown.com/sm/leb.gif

[harsha]

let the individual countries resolve for themselves without sticking your noses where they don't belong.

[Roamy]

let the individual countries resolve for themselves without sticking your noses where they don't belong.

So basically what you are saying is that if Germany wants to take over Tenerife or Mallorca you have no problem with that. It is between the two countries.

[ioan]

let the individual countries resolve for themselves without sticking your noses where they don't belong.

Just like India and Pakistan have so successfully solved their problems?

[Knock-on]

Let's not bring religion into this, because the writing of both religions clearly tell both sides to put up, shut up, and get along. Rather, it's a failure to follow their religion in the pursuit of naked greed.
This is nothing more than *******ry perpetuated by two groups of murderous thugs.

Not wanting to drag this into a bible debate but if we followed the 'teachings' of the Bible to the letter, we would be a rather intolerant society, wouldn't we.

2nd Kings Chapter 2

2:23 He went up from there to Bethel; and as he was going up by the way, there came forth young lads out of the city, and mocked him, and said to him, Go up, you baldy; go up, you baldhead.

2:24 He looked behind him and saw them, and cursed them in the name of Yahweh. There came forth two she-bears out of the wood, and mauled forty-two lads of them.

Exodus

35:2 For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a Sabbath of rest to the LORD. Whoever does any work on it must be put to death.

Psalms

137:8-9

Daughter Babylon, doomed to destruction, happy is the one who repays you according to what you have done to us. Happy is the one who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks.

Hosea

13:16 The people of Samaria must bear their guilt, because they have rebelled against their God. They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be dashed to the ground, their pregnant women ripped open.

Leviticus

20:13 If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

Makes Jeremy Clarkson look like a Saint :laugh:

I can offer a few more examples if you want or do the same with the Koran.

[Roamy]

And Jerry Sandusky said "Fuzk this guy Leviticus" :)

[Eki]

Too-ra-loo-ra-loo-ral, Too-ra-loo-ra-li,
Too-ra-loo-ra-loo-ral, hush now, don't you cry!
Too-ra-loo-ra-loo-ral, Too-ra-loo-ra-li,
Too-ra-loo-ra-loo-ral, that's an Irish lullaby.

Torah-lorah-lorahl, Torah-lorah-lorahli,
Torah-lorah-lorahl, crush, now you die!
Torah-lorah-lorahl, Torah-lorah-lorahli,
Torah-lorah-lorahl, that's an Israeli battle cry.

[race aficionado]

Somebody give Eki a fish!!!!!

[Knock-on]

Somebody give Eki a fish!!!!!

How about a bit of Russian Cavier? We know how much he likes the cuddly Bear :)

[Eki]

I once opened a bottle and a genie came out. He gave me three fishes. I said, "What's this? Jesus got five."

[Roamy]

Somebody give Eki a fish!!!!!

Yea and make it a CARP

[monadvspec]

Plural of fish is fish? Too -rah -loo- ra - loo- rah is an Irish Lullaby.

Certain countries with nuclear capabilities are better than those without. Would you prefer (anyone and everyone) that Iran have a nuclear bomb over Israel. I don't have an axe to grind in

this but en masse it appears to me as though there is more stability in countries that have a more western idiology than those with an eastern. Look at Egypt. Got what they wanted and

the world was happy. Now they want to be a more Islamic country. In other words they want to introduce more draconian laws like those enacted by believers in Sahria law. Does one feel

that the people who began the revolution had this ultra conservative minority in mind and suddenly their ideals are those being parroted. Likewise in Lbya.

Start the revolution and then sit back. Come out of the wood word and instill upon the uneduated masses the crass ideals of a few.

[Knock-on]

:confused:

[ioan]

:confused:

It actually sounds OK after a second read. ;)

[Knock-on]

It actually sounds OK after a second read. ;)

My word. If you understand it, I should have put :confused: :confused:

:D

[monadvspec]

If you're speaking of my post I did not write it as it was posted. The breaks etcetera were not my doing. The firsst line was a reference to something EKI posted. The rest should be easy to unndertand. Very easy.

[yodasarmpit]

From my understanding of your post, you are suggesting that the "Arab Spring" uprising, which began as a means to remove those in power for a more democratic leadership, has in someway been hijacked by more radical groups.
In short, what started out as a revolution for the good, could turn out to be a nightmare for the majority.

Animal Farm?

[Bob Riebe]

From the Torah (for the Jews):

Dvarim: 10:19
And you are to love those who are aliens, for you yourselves were aliens in Egypt.[i]
Shmot 22:21
[i]Do not mistreat an alien or oppress him, for you were aliens in Egypt

From the Neviim (for the Jews):
Y'khezqel 47:22
You are to allot it as an inheritance for yourselves and for the aliens who have settled among you and who have children. You are to consider them as native-born Israelites; along with you they are to be allotted an inheritance among the tribes of Israel.

From the Qu'ran (for the Muslims)

Sura 5:20-21
Recall that Moses said to his people (the Jews), “O my people, remember GOD’s blessings upon you: He appointed prophets from among you, made you kings, and granted you what He never granted any other people.
“O my people, enter the holy land (Israel) that GOD has decreed for you, and do not rebel, lest you become losers.”

Sura 17:104
And We said thereafter to the Children of Israel, “Dwell securely in the land (of promise)”: but when the second of the warnings came to pass, We gathered you together in a mingled crowd.

Let's not bring religion into this, because the writing of both religions clearly tell both sides to put up, shut up, and get along. Rather, it's a failure to follow their religion in the pursuit of naked greed.
This is nothing more than *******ry perpetuated by two groups of murderous thugs.But all the prophecies in the Old Testament were fulfilled making the supposed put-up or shut-claim you made both moot and mute.

Jesus fulfilled the old Testament but in the end he absolutely returns the Jewish homeland to its God given owners.

[Bob Riebe]

Plural of fish is fish? .The plural of a single species is fish; multiples species, fishes.

[Roamy]

Can you believe we did not take care of that Drone. Holy sh!t look up milk toast and you will see Obama's picture.

[Rudy Tamasz]

the "Arab Spring" uprising, which began as a means to remove those in power for a more democratic leadership, has in someway been hijacked by more radical groups.


Just out of curiosity, why do you take it for granted that the uprising started with democracy in mind? I think the only democracy rioters wanted wanted was some free elections they would use to bring islamists to power. This is what normally happens in countries where there is no sizeable Western style middle class. There are some groups in Egypt and Tunisia that would qualify for that, but islamists still won the recent elections. Now, can you imagine democratic governments in Lybia? Syria? I can't.

I tend to think that the whole thing was started by islamists to get rid of secular regimes. See how the government of Turkey is riding the popular wave and skillfully using the democracy rhetoric to promote its islamist agenda. Who will benefit, I don't know.

[Mark]

The plural of a single species is fish; multiples species, fishes.

I feel I should have known that since I keep fish; thanks!

[monadvspec]

From my understanding of your post, you are suggesting that the "Arab Spring" uprising, which began as a means to remove those in power for a more democratic leadership, has in someway been hijacked by more radical groups.
In short, what started out as a revolution for the good, could turn out to be a nightmare for the majority.

Animal Farm?

Yoda, thank you. For some reason, and believe me it is really tiresome but I don't look up to see what I posted. If I don't do a spell check then you get posts like some I wrote.

To the point though. You are absolutely. The rebel forces wanted a more open society. Now that elections are forthcoming the most conservative of mullahs and staunch "puritanical" ultra Islamics are creating all sorts of trouble and consternation. They have a large older population to preach to and it seems as there is a certain degree of listening.