Brazillian GP 2011 [Archive] - Motorsport Forums

Bagwan

26th November 2011, 12:49

Au contraire, I would love to have full laps of that. OK, I admit I had no motion sickness watching it.

It is a bit jiggly and hard to watch , but cool nonetheless . Perhaps , when the "Steadycam helmet" comes out , it will improve both the image , and the strain on the driver's neck , especially on these reverse direction tracks , with the gyroscopes keeping the helmet level .

I would like to see it a bit closer to the actual level of the eyes of the driver . It looks to be about 4 inches above that now . It might give us a little more insight into incidents if we could see what they saw .

AndyL

26th November 2011, 16:15

Looks like Alonso and Hamilton are going for a second run in Q1, seems a bit unnecessary.

ioan

26th November 2011, 17:02

Well, that's it! Another record for Seb! Well done! :up:

ioan

26th November 2011, 17:05

It is a bit jiggly and hard to watch , but cool nonetheless . Perhaps , when the "Steadycam helmet" comes out , it will improve both the image , and the strain on the driver's neck , especially on these reverse direction tracks , with the gyroscopes keeping the helmet level .

Would a stabilized cam do? ;)

I would like to see it a bit closer to the actual level of the eyes of the driver . It looks to be about 4 inches above that now . It might give us a little more insight into incidents if we could see what they saw .

Yep, it was mounted on the top of the helmet, thus you don't get exactly the view the driver has.

Dave B

26th November 2011, 17:24

This Vettel guy who got pole: he's pretty good, isn't he?

jens

26th November 2011, 17:42

To be honest I was secretly hoping that Mansell could keep sharing the record, especially with fewer race weekends in his time...

But nonetheless wasn't meant to be. Unlike several other quali sessions this year, RBR seemed to have an edge all around. Rosberg managed a superb lap in Q2, shame he couldn't repeat it.

Great effort from Senna, even though it could be his last F1 race... Great effort from Sutil, could be his last weekend too, but it looks like he is now in much better position to get that Williams drive than a few weeks before. Buemi has been having a fair amount of unluck recently, again technical problems like we heard from team radio. Impressive finish (?) to the career of Barrichello, perhaps indeed a pole-worthy lap like he said. :) Hmm, just paying attention to guys, who could be out of F1. :) Saying that, I think we could see the last of Alguersuari too on the back of strengthening rumours about Ricciardo-Vergne...

Roamy

26th November 2011, 19:22

I hope Massa can celebrate his 100 GP at Ferrari with a great win :D

Pass the Bong Please !!!!

kfzmeister

26th November 2011, 19:40

This Vettel guy who got pole: he's pretty good, isn't he?

That must make Webber about as good, huh? Now how many people would actually make a statement like that? Exactly. All Car. Lol

pino

26th November 2011, 20:39

Pass the Bong Please !!!!

How about a glass of Amarone ? ;)

ioan

26th November 2011, 22:20

That must make Webber about as good, huh? Now how many people would actually make a statement like that? Exactly. All Car. Lol

Your are 'right', given that Webber's average qualifying position this season is 4th, it must be the car! :rotflmao:

donKey jote

26th November 2011, 22:55

This Vettel guy who got pole: he's pretty good, isn't he?
not as good as that Kimi chap nobody seems to want enough :p

CNR

26th November 2011, 22:56

That must make Webber about as good, huh? Now how many people would actually make a statement like that? Exactly. All Car. Lol

i believe that vettel would be at the front in a McLaren or Ferrari
this is a bit like stoner and ducati stoner would have won races on it this year ware rossi failed

kfzmeister

27th November 2011, 00:00

Your are 'right', given that Webber's average qualifying position this season is 4th, it must be the car! :rotflmao:

Alright, lemme break it down for you:
That must make Webber about as good means=today Webber about tenth off pole

Now how many people would actually make a statement like that mean=see my first comment
Webber is psychologically beat in that team like Massa @ Ferrari.

kfzmeister

27th November 2011, 00:01

i believe that vettel would be at the front in a McLaren or Ferrari

Seriously?

tfp

27th November 2011, 01:34

Seriously?

Hes in front 'cos hes got the best car...He couldnt do it in a ferrari IMO...

Ranger

27th November 2011, 01:58

This is a much better camera IMO. Much more sturdy and at eye level.

This was also in 2002 so I don't know why FOM just cottoned onto it.

Paul Tracy onboard Montreal 2002 helmcam - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3CLCPhYQfc)

ShiftingGears

27th November 2011, 06:42

Found this from Interlagos 2008.

YlWhQJszC1I&feature=grec_index

truefan72

27th November 2011, 08:10

Found this from Interlagos 2008.

YlWhQJszC1I&feature=grec_index

that camera sits a bit too low. IMO

ioan

27th November 2011, 10:12

Alright, lemme break it down for you: means=today Webber about tenth off pole
mean=see my first comment
Webber is psychologically beat in that team like Massa @ Ferrari.

News Flash, Webber was 2 tenths of pole today. Keep skewing reality if it suits you.

ioan

27th November 2011, 10:14

that camera sits a bit too low. IMO

Maybe they attached it to his jaws!

ShiftingGears

27th November 2011, 10:35

that camera sits a bit too low. IMO

Yeah it does. They should've attached it to the side of the inner helmet, like ChampCar did for many years, as linked above.

F1 has been pretty slow with incorporating new cameras, comparatively. I daresay most viewers would rather see this camera instead of the ultra slow motion cameras, the only use of which seem to be replaying some completely nondescript event.

truefan72

27th November 2011, 18:01

Seb said on the radio he felt like "Senna in '91"... Wait for him and Lewis to get bashed for daring to compare themselves at any point lol!!

no need Ted K from BBC aptly did it for him and I somewhat have to agree.
1. I am not sure exactly how bad that car was seeing that it was still easily then 2nd best car of the day
2. you can't compare cruising around with push botton gear shifts to manualy having to short shift the gears over the course fo an entire race

anyway, I give him some credit for knowing his history
but the cynic in me says that it seemed planned for Webber to win and even if there was some problem with Vettel's car, it wasn't nearly as serious as to affect his overall race strategy.
If the car was that seriously damaged and doing the lap times it was in the few laps before Webber's incident, then accordingly, Both Button and Alonso would have easily caught him up, but after Webber passed him, somehow the car seemd to have blanced out in terms of time and h cruised for the remainder of the race. Even allowing himself to speed up and do some good times at the end.
Gearbox issues get worse of the course of a race, not better.

jens

27th November 2011, 18:44

Well, a race that seemed to reflect the season a bit. Red Bull out in front (though uncharacteristically including Webber too), Massa again no higher than 5th. Top3 teams out at the front and other teams having no chance of getting a look into top results. Schumacher getting involved in something again, although this time through no fault of his own.

So like Häkkinen in 1997 and Montoya in 2004, Webber gets his sole consolation win of the season at the very last race. Interesting that now only at the end of the season Vettel has started suffering from unluck, but this hasn't mattered for the championship any more. Button v Alonso was solved pretty much like at Spa and Monza. Alonso in front most of the time, but Button passing him in the end with Alonso struggling on medium compound. Good to see Jenson clinching that P2 in overall standings he richly deserves.

Adrian Sutil - possibly driver of the race, ending his Force India career in style. Amazing to see, how close to Renault FI managed to get in the championship by the end. Good to see Kobayashi coming back to his old self at the end of the season again, having had two decent races and two points finishes to round the season out with. Senna dropping backwards in the race was perhaps suspected, penalty and a malfunctioning car didn't help though.

ioan

27th November 2011, 19:11

no need Ted K from BBC aptly did it for him and I somewhat have to agree.
1. I am not sure exactly how bad that car was seeing that it was still easily then 2nd best car of the day
2. you can't compare cruising around with push botton gear shifts to manualy having to short shift the gears over the course fo an entire race

anyway, I give him some credit for knowing his history
but the cynic in me says that it seemed planned for Webber to win and even if there was some problem with Vettel's car, it wasn't nearly as serious as to affect his overall race strategy.
If the car was that seriously damaged and doing the lap times it was in the few laps before Webber's incident, then accordingly, Both Button and Alonso would have easily caught him up, but after Webber passed him, somehow the car seemd to have blanced out in terms of time and h cruised for the remainder of the race. Even allowing himself to speed up and do some good times at the end.
Gearbox issues get worse of the course of a race, not better.

What a bout the much higher G forces compared to 1991?

ioan

27th November 2011, 19:14

Have to mention Sutil's great drive, this guy deserves a race seat next year, so those muppets in charge of teams with seats available out there should get a good look at him, unlike chief muppet Vijay Mallya who pushed out the best driver to ever drive one of his cars.

Also worth mentioning that Kobayashi saved 7th place for Sauber and quite a few millions along with that.

markabilly

27th November 2011, 19:38

that camera sits a bit too low. IMO

Probably too high as on the helmet right above the visor.

I do not understand how any of these drivers can see well enough to maintain control and drive well in traffic sitting so low in the car.

Dave B

27th November 2011, 20:32

I don't think there is any question the cars are alot easier to drive now than they were in 1991.

Swings and roundabouts. Semi-auto 'boxes must be a piece of cake compared to constantly taking one hand off the wheel to change gear manually, but there's also the huge array of parameters which must be adjusted throughout a lap which simply didn't happen in '91. I'd say the sport has become less physical but more cerebral over the decades.

BDunnell

27th November 2011, 22:21

but the cynic in me says that it seemed planned for Webber to win and even if there was some problem with Vettel's car, it wasn't nearly as serious as to affect his overall race strategy.
If the car was that seriously damaged and doing the lap times it was in the few laps before Webber's incident, then accordingly, Both Button and Alonso would have easily caught him up, but after Webber passed him, somehow the car seemd to have blanced out in terms of time and h cruised for the remainder of the race. Even allowing himself to speed up and do some good times at the end.
Gearbox issues get worse of the course of a race, not better.

If there is any genuine suggestion that the 'gearbox problem' was merely a way to give Webber a win, is this not (quite honestly) a matter for the police, as an example of race-fixing?

pete c

27th November 2011, 23:53

Ohh dear

ioan

28th November 2011, 00:08

I don't think there is any question the cars are alot easier to drive now than they were in 1991.

Au contraire there is a lot more to do nowadays than back then, also the physical effort required is much higher.

kfzmeister

28th November 2011, 04:22

News Flash, Webber was 2 tenths of pole today. Keep skewing reality if it suits you.

Lmao. a tenth really helps your argument! It sure doesn't make my comments lose validity. :)

kfzmeister

28th November 2011, 04:23

Hes in front 'cos hes got the best car...He couldnt do it in a ferrari IMO...

Or a McLaren!

kfzmeister

28th November 2011, 04:24

I don't think there is any question the cars are alot easier to drive now than they were in 1991.

...even Brundle said the same thing!

kfzmeister

28th November 2011, 04:26

What a bout the much higher G forces compared to 1991?

What exactly are the different g-forces between eras?

555-04Q2

28th November 2011, 13:34

What exactly are the different g-forces between eras?

Current F1 cars pull about double the G's on cornering and braking over 20 or 30 years ago. The cars of the 80's pulled similar G's during accelleration as they were up to 1500 BHP back then!

truefan72

28th November 2011, 13:36

Theres alot more buttons to press I will agree but nowadays the driver no longer has his shoulders upwards out of the car, they have a HANS device that keeps their necks within a certain range, and they no longer have to steer one handed while they change gear without the luxury of power steering. I disagree its more of a physical challenge these days (in comparison to '91), but I still have huge respect for what the drivers do.

that's how I see it too
Its still a challenge, less physical and taxing as 20 years ago
but nonetheless still a challenge, which the average person is wholly incapable of managing

kfzmeister

28th November 2011, 14:23

Current F1 cars pull about double the G's on cornering and braking over 20 or 30 years ago. The cars of the 80's pulled similar G's during accelleration as they were up to 1500 BHP back then!

Is there something that backs that statement?

wedge

28th November 2011, 14:32

Swings and roundabouts. Semi-auto 'boxes must be a piece of cake compared to constantly taking one hand off the wheel to change gear manually, but there's also the huge array of parameters which must be adjusted throughout a lap which simply didn't happen in '91. I'd say the sport has become less physical but more cerebral over the decades.

McLaren were still using a H-pattern box in '91 and it there was some rain that day in Brazil.

Rocky could tell Vettel when to shift. Senna never had that level of real time data acquisition nor the extra variables and parameters on a steering wheel so you really had have to use your extra thinking capacity to compensate car problems.