2012 Silly Season - Grid lineup

[Ranger]

Just a bit of speculation ahead of hopefully some solid news:

Red Bull
Vettel*, Webber*

McLaren
Button*, Hamilton*

Ferrari
Alonso* Massa*

Mercedes
Rosberg* Schumacher*

Lotus
Grosjean? Petrov? Senna?

Force India
Di Resta* Hulkenberg?

Sauber
Perez* Kobayashi*

Toro Rosso
Alguersuari? Ricciardo?

Williams
Maldonado? Raikkonen? Barrichello?

Caterham
Kovalainen? Trulli?

Marussia
Glock? Pic?

Hispania
Clos? Vergne?

Opinions:
- As ever we probably won't find out what STR are doing until a week or so before the season starts.
- I will be extremely surprised if Raikkonen actually signs for Williams.
- I do hope Grosjean gets a proper chance next year, as opposed to being #2 in the Alonso team for 6 races or so with no prior testing.
- My guess is that Kubica won't return in 2012. I hope I am wrong but don't see any news that suggests otherwise.

[Tumbo]

as are petrov, maldonado and kovalainen as far as I know

[jens]

And Glock has a contract until 2014... Well, that's the longest deal I can remember with a backmarker team... :\

[driveace]

Surprised the Trulli and Barrichelo have a seat next year,as I feel they are both past their "Best by"date.Nice guys and maybe good at feedback,but let's have some young ,hungry new drivers please,!

[Garry Walker]

Surprised the Trulli and Barrichelo have a seat next year,as I feel they are both past their "Best by"date.Nice guys and maybe good at feedback,but let's have some young ,hungry new drivers please,!

Hungry drivers like hulkenberg who was clearly beaten by Barrichello last year? Maldonado who is at best about equal with RB?

[driveace]

Not HUNGRY enough Garry,and I was not thinking on the lines,of Hulkenburg or Maldonardo,and every man and his dog know why Pastor is at Williams,and it's not because of his driving ability !!!

[Garry Walker]

Not HUNGRY enough Garry,and I was not thinking on the lines,of Hulkenburg or Maldonardo,and every man and his dog know why Pastor is at Williams,and it's not because of his driving ability !!!

So who were you thinking of? Bianchi? Bottas?

Maldonado has had a better season than what nico H had last year.

[Stuartf12007]

You missed Sutil, who i think could be at either Williams or Lotus, but he will have a drive

[Bezza]

I think apart from Kimi Raikkonen going to Williams, 2012 will not see many changes.

2013 - this is where everything will really change!

Webber and Massa are on their last legs at top teams after poor seasons. Red Bull are content for Webber to be back up to Vettel as that suits them fine, but he is aging. Ferrari were fine with Massa being second to Alonso, but in 2011 Massa has been hopeless.

So, 2013 my best guess of the top four teams:

Red Bull - Vettel / Ricciardo

Ferrari - Alonso / Kubica

McLaren - Hamilton / Button

Mercedes - Rosberg / di Resta

[CNR]

Trulli is confirmed as far as I know.. :)

Questions raised over Trulli's Lotus position | F1 News | Nov 2011 | Crash.Net (http://www.crash.net/f1/news/174870/1/questions_raised_over_trullis_lotus_position.html)

Suspicions that the announcement of Jarno Trulli's re-signing with Team Lotus did not include definite confirmation that the Italian will race next season are being borne out in the Yas Marina paddock, amid rumours that the Italian will be usurped by any number of rivals in 2012.

[jens]

So, 2013 my best guess of the top four teams:

Red Bull - Vettel / Ricciardo

Ferrari - Alonso / Kubica

McLaren - Hamilton / Button

Mercedes - Rosberg / di Resta

Ferrari already have experience of bringing back a driver, who has been injured and after that not been performing impressively (Massa). I doubt Ferrari is going to change one such driver for another, as it seems Kubica is probably not going to race in 2012 and then hiring him for 2013 would be an extremely doubtful gamble.

[Nikki Katz]

I think Trulli's already under contract for next year. Force India haven't announced either of their drivers, but it's expected Sutil will be dropped for no real reason. Petrov has a contract but isn't confirmed, I doubt we'll see a Petrov/Senna lineup at Lotus next year, they'll want one other driver to complement their pay driver.

Sutil has a shot at Williams (for some reason I don't see Raikkonen returning, but I could be wrong on that), I doubt Barrichello has a chance there any more. If he really still wants to be in F1, perhaps if he found sponsorship he could target, say, Liuzzi's seat? But I expect Brazil's the last we'll see of him.

I think we may see Karthikeyan back at Hispania, if only on a part-time basis.

[Rollo]

I do hope Grosjean gets a proper chance next year, as opposed to being #2 in the Alonso team for 6 races or so with no prior testing.

What does Romain have to do to take a trick? He won both GP2 and GP2 Asia in the same year and won the Auto GP series in 2010. It's like he keeps on hitting his head on the glass ceiling of F1 and can't get in. Genii/Black Lotus/Renault (or whatever the hell the decide to call themselves next week) are overbooked, and it'd be a waste of him to faff about in anything worse.

[DazzlaF1]

And Glock has a contract until 2014... Well, that's the longest deal I can remember with a backmarker team... :\

I dunno, I remember reading about Ghinzani spending 5 successive seasons at Osella and Pierluigi martini spending nearly all his 10 year career at Minardi

But still you're right, in todays world, its a long time, the only other I can think of in presernt terms is Adrian Sutil at Force India/Spyker

[DazzlaF1]

How I see it so far

RED BULL RENAULT: 1. Sebastian Vettel, 2. Mark Webber
No suprises here

McLAREN MERCEDES: 3. Jenson Button, 4. Lewis Hamilton
Read above

FERRARI: 5. Fernando Alonso, 6. Felipe Massa
Despite the aforementioned Kubica rumours, I fully expect Mssa to fuilfill the remainder of his contract

MERCEDES: 7. Michael Schumacher, 8. Nico Rosberg
With Rosberg being re-signed for 2 years and Schumacher likely goign nowhere, no suprises here either

LOTUS RENAULT: 9. Vitaly Petrov, 10. ??? (POSSIBLES, Robert Kubica, Romain Grosjean, Bruno Senna, Adrian Sutil)
It all depends really on Kubica's fitness, if he's OK, then i cant see him getting overlooked, Petrov's a cert after signing that new deal

SAHARA FORCE INDIA MERCEDES: 11. ???, 12. ??? (POSSIBLES, Adrian Sutil, Paul Di Resta, Nico Hulkenberg)
Like with Kubica at Renault, Its all dependent on one drivers position, in this case Sutil, the only certainty I can see is Di Resta being kept on

SAUBER FERRARI: 14. Kamui Kobayashi, 15. Sergio Perez
Confirmed a few weeks ago, no suprises really

TORO ROSSO FERRARI: 16. ???, 17. ??? (POSSIBLES, Sebastien Buemi, Jaime Alguersuari, Jean-Eric Vergne, Daniel Ricciardo)
Traditionally, they'll decide on their lineup weeks before the first race but with both Buemi's and Alguersuari's improved form this season, it will be tough to drop them

WILLIAMS RENAULT: 18. ???, 19. ??? (POSSIBLES: Rubens Barrichello, Pastor Maldonado, Kimi Raikkonen, Valtteri Bottas)
This is a tricky one to decipher, especially after the Raikkonen rumours began to circulate

CATERHAM RENAULT: 20. Heikki Kovalainen, 21. Jarno Trulli
Same lineup for the 3rd season running, pretty unheard of for a backmarker team

MARUSSIA COSWORTH: 22. Timo Glock, 23. ??? (POSSIBLES: Jerome D'Ambrosio, Charles Pic)
It would be a shame for d'Ambrosio to lose his seat, he's performed admirably in such a bad car bit I fear he could in favour of Pic

HISPANIA: 24. ???, 25. ??? (POSSIBLES: ???)
For this lot, it'll be who provides the most $$$

[DexDexter]

What does Romain have to do to take a trick? He won both GP2 and GP2 Asia in the same year and won the Auto GP series in 2010. It's like he keeps on hitting his head on the glass ceiling of F1 and can't get in. Genii/Black Lotus/Renault (or whatever the hell the decide to call themselves next week) are overbooked, and it'd be a waste of him to faff about in anything worse.

His stint at Renault a few years ago hurt his reputation a lot. The first impression is really difficult to shrug off.

[Ranger]

Petrov may be on the way out.


Vitaly Petrov's future at Renault has been thrown into doubt after the Russian driver launched an amazing outburst against the team this week, in the first public sign of friction between himself and team management.

On the back of an increasingly frustrating campaign, which has seen Renault score just six points since the German Grand Prix, Petrov has blamed a lack of development and strategy mistakes for its current plight.
Vitaly Petrov hits out at Renault over lack of progress - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/96306)

I am starting to think Renault are sufficiently lacking in the management department.

[DexDexter]

Petrov may be on the way out.


Vitaly Petrov hits out at Renault over lack of progress - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/96306)

I am starting to think Renault are sufficiently lacking in the management department.

Renault is a mess and going down. The team will be done in a couple of years.

[CNR]

Renault is a mess and going down. The team will be done in a couple of years.

lotus i think the only Renault thing will be the engine

[Koz]

Petrov may be on the way out.


Vitaly Petrov hits out at Renault over lack of progress - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/96306)

I am starting to think Renault are sufficiently lacking in the management department.

Meh, Renault need Petrov [rather his money] far more than he needs them.

[Bolton Midnight]

2013

Red Bull - Webber / Hamilton

Ferrari - Alonso / Di Resta

McLaren - Button / ??

Mercedes - Rosberg / Vettel

[jens]

2013

Red Bull - Webber / Hamilton

Ferrari - Alonso / Di Resta

McLaren - Button / ??

Mercedes - Rosberg / Vettel

Considering that you don't rate Webber at all, why are you expecting him to be at Red Bull Racing come 2013? Oh, and by the way, Vettel has a contract with RBR until the end of 2014.

[Bolton Midnight]

Maybe further down the line then, I think Mercedes want to create a German super team (well apart from having British technical staff and being located in Britain of course).

[CNR]

Rubens Barrichello to lotus next year
then Barrichello and massa in 2013 ?
Boullier wants big-name drivers | Planet F1 | Formula One | News, Standings, Results, Features, Video (http://www.planet-f1.com/driver/18227/7320646/Boullier-wants-big-name-drivers)

Despite not knowing who his 2012 drivers will be, Renault team boss Eric Boullier is already saying he wants two big-name drivers for the 2013 season.

[DexDexter]

Rubens Barrichello to lotus next year
then Barrichello and massa in 2013 ?
Boullier wants big-name drivers | Planet F1 | Formula One | News, Standings, Results, Features, Video (http://www.planet-f1.com/driver/18227/7320646/Boullier-wants-big-name-drivers)

To me it's far more likely that next year Barrichello will be lazing on a hammock. :)

[jens]

Rubens Barrichello to lotus next year
then Barrichello and massa in 2013 ?
Boullier wants big-name drivers | Planet F1 | Formula One | News, Standings, Results, Features, Video (http://www.planet-f1.com/driver/18227/7320646/Boullier-wants-big-name-drivers)

Bouiller just managed to fire one experienced strong driver, named Heidfeld. Opting for Barrichello after that wouldn't make any sense at all. Only for Bouiller to start complaining during 2012 that as the team isn't going forward and Rubens hasn't been trashing his rookie team-mate, he is not "a real leader" and should be sacked. Oh, sounds like an argument Williams could have used this year if they really wanted to...

[CNR]

maybe i got it wrong big-name drivers as in long name
Michael Schumacher and Jaime Alguersuari

Formula 1 (http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2011/11/12815.html)

Pedro de la Rosa is to leave his current position as McLaren test driver and return to the grid next season with the HRT team. De la Rosa, who will be 41 when he begins his 2012 campaign, is a veteran of 85 Grand Prix starts and last raced with Sauber at this year’s Canadian round.

[Ranger]

If Barrichello is retained for next year, there will be three 40+ year old drivers on the starting grid.

When was the last time that happened?? :/

[Dave B]

Pic officially confirmed at Murussia.

[Ranger]

Daniel Ricciardo told OneHD that he is pretty confident of a seat on next year's grid.

Force India's lineup of Di Resta and Hulkenberg is apparently all but confirmed.

[RS]

I guess it will be Ricciardo and Vergne at Torro Rosso, Hulkenberg and Di Resta at Force India, Sutil & Maldonado at Williams and Grosjean & Petrov at Renault.

[jens]

Autosport.com is writing that Ricciardo could get Caterham seat. In any case, now there are suggestions that both Toro Rosso drivers could retain their seats... Something that I personally don't approve, because this is blocking the careers of Ricciardo and Vergne, who have had a more impressive junior record and are tipped to be bigger future stars.

[I am evil Homer]

Buemi's time is up I think...Alguesari probably deserves another year.

[Ranger]

So:

Red Bull: Vettel, Webber
McLaren: Button, Hamilton
Ferrari: Alonso, Massa
Mercedes: Rosberg, Schumacher
Lotus: Raikkonen, ???
Force India: Di Resta, (Hulkenberg)
Sauber: Perez, Kobayashi
Toro Rosso: ???, ???
Williams: ???, ???
Caterham: (Kovalainen), ???
Marussia: Glock, Pic
Hispania: De La Rosa, ???

- Raikkonen signed for Lotus today.
- Apparently Hulkenberg is all but certain at Force India.
- Kovalainen all but certain at Caterham.

[RS]

How safe is Petrov at Renault and how much money does he really bring? Today's LRGP press release didn't mention Kimi's teammate.

Maybe Petrov could go to Marussia with Glock moving accross to Caterham in place of Trulli?

I agree with Jens regarding Torro Rosso. Aren't two teams enough for Red Bull? If they want Ricciardo to have a future then put him in your own team! I don't know why Torro Rosso would hang on to Buemi or Algusuari, both are capable but neither have shown any flahses of Vettel-like genious which is surely what they are looking for?

[DexDexter]

How safe is Petrov at Renault and how much money does he really bring? Today's LRGP press release didn't mention Kimi's teammate.

Maybe Petrov could go to Marussia with Glock moving accross to Caterham in place of Trulli?

I agree with Jens regarding Torro Rosso. Aren't two teams enough for Red Bull? If they want Ricciardo to have a future then put him in your own team! I don't know why Torro Rosso would hang on to Buemi or Algusuari, both are capable but neither have shown any flahses of Vettel-like genious which is surely what they are looking for?

What is Red Bull actually looking for? They have a very young two-time WDC in Vettel and he's got a contract for few years so they really need only one driver and F1 is full of good ones. Maybe they should stop their junior development program since they are never going to find rides for all their drivers and it doesn't produce exceptional talents other than by accident.

[Wasted Talent]

Maybe further down the line then, I think Mercedes want to create a German super team (well apart from having British technical staff and being located in Britain of course).

:) :) :) :) :)

[jens]

I have to say that the Räikkönen confirmation at LRGP makes the situation about the second seat extremely exciting! Petrov, Senna or Grosjean - who, who? I get the impression Bouiller personally is favouring Grosjean, but I think for Genii's Lopez business connections are primary and Petrov has been hired based on his interests so far. But I'm unsure, how well have his business dealings gone with Russians recently and how much does he need Petrov any more. Vitaly was supposed to have a firm contract for 2012, but recent developments seem to indicate that he hasn't, so perhaps LRGP has concluded VP isn't really that vital for marketing any more and they could just as well choose another driver for the future?


What is Red Bull actually looking for? They have a very young two-time WDC in Vettel and he's got a contract for few years so they really need only one driver and F1 is full of good ones. Maybe they should stop their junior development program since they are never going to find rides for all their drivers and it doesn't produce exceptional talents other than by accident.

What is RBR looking for? I think one thing they have in mind, is having a good option in their own driver programme to be ready to take over from Webber whenever he retires. And Vettel may leave after his contract ends in 2014, so they ought to prepare for that too. Of course the other RB junior driver may not exactly be a match to Vettel, but when they are both driving for Red Bull Racing and fighting for WCC's, surely RBR would like to have a better driver than "a Massa", who collects less than 50% of team-mate's points.

One could argue though that once RBR has become a top team, they can attract any top drivers and don't need to groom anyone specifically. Ferrari has been doing this traditionally, having kept hiring only already experienced and proven drivers from other teams. Perhaps only Massa was an exception, who was nurtured by them.

But having an excellent choice ready from own programme can also be useful if the driver market doesn't work out in your favour - for instance Button, Rosberg and Alonso are all confirmed in their own teams on a long-term basis, one may expect Hamilton to continue in McLaren too. In a situation like this RBR may not have ideal options and having an impressive driver prepared through the junior ranks would make choice easier. That's why I think Red Bull should be more decisive, because Buemi is quite frankly never going to be a RBR driver, so keeping and nurturing him doesn't serve much purpose any more.

Of course if Red Bull has somehow concluded through tests, simulations, and all kind of data (which is available to them, but not to us the forum members) that Alguersuari and Buemi are the best they have got and Ricciardo/Vergne are no good in F1 machinery despite junior success, then yes - keeping Jaime/Seb warm would make sense. But I still remain unconvinced this is really the case.

[N. Jones]

IF Lotus-Renault need the money then Petrov is it. If not then Grosjean should get the seat.
With Raikkonen off to Lotus I think Sutil goes to Williams if he isn't kept. The rumor on grandprix.com is that Bottas will take Rubens seat.
I'd love to see Hulkenberg back in a race seat. I would like to see if he can live up to the hype.

[CNR]

maybe BS
F1 news: Williams and Force India driving on empty | The Sun |Sport|Motorsport (http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/motorsport/3970701/F1-news-Williams-and-Force-India-driving-on-empty.html)

Williams had been expected to name at least well-funded Venezuelan Pastor Maldonado as one of their drivers.
But the nine-time constructors' champion left both spaces blank to be confirmed at a later date.

[RS]

According to this story Petrov has to chose whether to stay at Renault. Quite strange that the option is on the drivers side: Petrov in talks with two other teams - GPUpdate.net (http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/272352/petrov-in-talks-with-two-other-teams/)

Guess the two other teams would be Williams and Caterham?

[Nikki Katz]

Maldonado's now been confirmed at Williams. However this doesn't solve the PDVSA problem, so if that does go against them I imagine he'll be unconfirmed at a later date and replaced with another pay driver (Senna?)

I don't understand why Renault/Lotus/Benetton/Whatever have asked Petrov to make up his mind, unless they want rid and are trying to get him to break the contract rather than the other way around? Surely he wouldn't leave them for, say, the other Lotus team if he thought he wasn't about to get dropped?

[RS]

Surely he wouldn't leave them for, say, the other Lotus team if he thought he wasn't about to get dropped?

Unless he could get an extended contract at another team...

Williams also confirmed that Bottas will be a reserve driver which probably means there will be a more established guy in their other race seat. That probably means Sutil/Barrichello/Petrov I guess.

[555-04Q2]

According to this story Petrov has to chose whether to stay at Renault. Quite strange that the option is on the drivers side:

His backers have big bucks, that's the only reason why.

[jens]

If the decision to continue with Renault is Petrov's to make, then I don't understand, what is he even waiting for. There is no better or even an equal option available for him. Perhaps the issue can be that the Russian sponsors haven't made full commitment yet?

[Mia 01]

Kimi races 2012, yes, other drivers, yes, they are needed.

[zako85]

Unless he could get an extended contract at another team...

Williams also confirmed that Bottas will be a reserve driver which probably means there will be a more established guy in their other race seat. That probably means Sutil/Barrichello/Petrov I guess.

I kind of wonder why Barrichello is still being considered for a seat. Sooner, rather than later, he will have to retire forcing the team to search for a new driver, most likely as soon as next year. I would imagine that most teams would prefer to have a driver with whom they could start building a relationship that could last for years, as opposed to having a driver who almost certainly will retire the next year.

And I don't know what Barrichello is trying to prove by staying in F1 for another year, other than establishing more longevity records. He's had a relatively long and successful career, despite not winning a WDC, but all good things must eventually come to an end. He already made his biggest statements in sport. Instead of seeing one or two more highly unlikely podiums (at best) added to Barrichello's record next year, the sport would have benefited if more younger racers were allowed to drive. The same applies to Schumacher..

[CNR]

Renault picks Romain Grosjean for F1 2012 | Page 1 | F1 News | Dec 2011 | Crash.Net (http://www.crash.net/f1/news/175381/1/renault_picks_romain_grosjean_for_f1_2012.html)

Lotus Renault (http://www.motorsportforums.com/f1/team_profile/5/ing_renault_f1.html) GP has signed Frenchman Romain Grosjean (http://www.motorsportforums.com/f1/racer_bio/25/romain_grosjean.html) to race alongside returning former champion Kimi Räikkönen in the 2012 F1 World Championship.

[RS]

Renault picks Romain Grosjean for F1 2012 | Page 1 | F1 News | Dec 2011 | Crash.Net (http://www.crash.net/f1/news/175381/1/renault_picks_romain_grosjean_for_f1_2012.html)

The Total money was more than the Russian sponsors could manage then!

Now we have few seats left and Sutil, Petrov and Senna all on the market, probably with sponsorship. A shame we don't have one more team on the grid.

I guess Sutil will get the Williams drive, Petrov reserve driver at Marussia or in the second HRT seat. Ricciardo's chances seem to depend on whether Caterham will dump Trulli.

[The Black Knight]

Renault picks Romain Grosjean for F1 2012 | Page 1 | F1 News | Dec 2011 | Crash.Net (http://www.crash.net/f1/news/175381/1/renault_picks_romain_grosjean_for_f1_2012.html)

I personally feel this is a mistake by Renault. I doubt Grosjean will do any better than Senna did. He might end up being a surprise of course but I really don't get the hype that Renault have been building up about him. I really felt that Senna had earned that race seat. It really shows that money talks in F1.

[truefan72]

its a terrible decision by renault
Petrov clearly deserved that 2nd seat and would have formed a solid lineup for the team
Now you have a quick kimi -with no experience in the team and a reputation for bringing nothing to the development
and essentially a once failed rookie who will probably fair just about as well as he did the last time.

I hope petrov finds a seat with Caterham or HRT

[jens]

I'm happy about the decision. There are only a few drivers, who have impressed me as much as Grosjean has done in GP2. Basically Grosjean has been winning everywhere, where he has been racing, and that includes also sportscars besides open-wheelers! We all know and point out the late 2009 F1 debut, but as we have seen, even great F1 drivers have had spells of underperformance, when the set of circumstances have been unfavorable.

If drivers like Alguersuari, Buemi, Petrov, etc, have been getting several seasons in F1, then Grosjean is definitely worthy of an F1 drive too. I believe the Frenchman's ultimate potential is higher than any of those mentioned. It remains to be confirmed in practice though.


It really shows that money talks in F1.

Money talks? Sounds ironic, considering money was the only reason, which helped both Petrov and Senna get their drives as well.

I think the naysayers should actually wait a bit rather than immediately spout out "he will fail!"

--

I find the Trulli situation intriguing. He has been confirmed at Caterham long time ago, been on the official list of FIA. He is also now actively involved in preparation for next season, having seat-fittings, etc. I mean it would be an extremely harsh way to get your career ended, if you are working at full steam together with the team and then suddenly get sacked before the season...

[The Black Knight]

its a terrible decision by renault
Petrov clearly deserved that 2nd seat and would have formed a solid lineup for the team
Now you have a quick kimi -with no experience in the team and a reputation for bringing nothing to the development
and essentially a once failed rookie who will probably fair just about as well as he did the last time.

I hope petrov finds a seat with Caterham or HRT

I don't really get how you come to that conclusion to be honest? He was a thorough disappointment and, in my opinion, he's really not good enough to be on the F1 grid. He's one of those drivers, along with the likes of Maldonado for example, that should be sent home.

[BDunnell]

I find the Trulli situation intriguing. He has been confirmed at Caterham long time ago, been on the official list of FIA. He is also now actively involved in preparation for next season, having seat-fittings, etc. I mean it would be an extremely harsh way to get your career ended, if you are working at full steam together with the team and then suddenly get sacked before the season...

Especially given that no-one else they could possibly hope to get could ever do any better.

[truefan72]

I'm happy about the decision. There are only a few drivers, who have impressed me as much as Grosjean has done in GP2. Basically Grosjean has been winning everywhere, where he has been racing, and that includes also sportscars besides open-wheelers! We all know and point out the late 2009 F1 debut, but as we have seen, even great F1 drivers have had spells of underperformance, when the set of circumstances have been unfavorable.

LOL that's an understatement if any

He stunk up the joint when he was in that very competitive Renault, so much so that they did not consider him the next year, or the year after, and chose Senna as a mid-season replacement.
F1 isn't GP2 and I'm sorry, but he had his chance and showed to be under prepared, arrogant and all around not up for the job.
The simple truth is that he got his backers to buy him the seat and good for him, but IMO he is one of the least deserving drivers out there.
Algersuari, Buemi and Petrov are miles better than this guy. He's another Nelson Piquet Jr. In my books

[truefan72]

I don't really get how you come to that conclusion to be honest? He was a thorough disappointment and, in my opinion, he's really not good enough to be on the F1 grid. He's one of those drivers, along with the likes of Maldonado for example, that should be sent home.

As my sig says...

How many points did Petrov score this year?
Did he not get a podium in Melbourne?
How many other drivers got podiums this year?
His performance was anything from disappointing.
What were you expecting him to do this year?
win races, beat the top 4 teams?
both sutil and Petrov finished 9th & 10th respectively, which is exactly behind the top 4 teams and both drivers are still without confirmed seats, which is pathetic.
Heidfeld finished 4 points behind Petrov, proving that all the quality in the car was in the first half of the year, and that car was a dog the rest of the way.
Renault have consistently made boneheaded decisions, Getting rid of heidfeld was one, producing ever worsening upgrades another, getting rid of Petrov is yet another one.
Boullier is over his head. Grosjean got his paid seat from Total pure and simple.

Petrov drove well IMO, and well enough to keep his seat.
Maldonado on the other hand is fairly useless.

[Koz]

No one mentions Nick? :)

If not Sutil, what about Senna at Williams?


I don't really get how you come to that conclusion to be honest? He was a thorough disappointment and, in my opinion, he's really not good enough to be on the F1 grid. He's one of those drivers, along with the likes of Maldonado for example, that should be sent home.

There are some here who said Petrov is world champion material...

[truefan72]

Especially given that no-one else they could possibly hope to get could ever do any better.

Sutil Could, Hulkenberg Could, Petrov Could, Buemi & Alguesuari could,
Heck even Rubens shows more spirit than Trulli

[Koz]

LOL that's an understatement if any

He stunk up the joint when he was in that very competitive Renault, so much so that they did not consider him the next year, or the year after, and chose Senna as a mid-season replacement.

Have you been smoking crack?

[jens]

LOL that's an understatement if any

He stunk up the joint when he was in that very competitive Renault, so much so that they did not consider him the next year, or the year after, and chose Senna as a mid-season replacement.
F1 isn't GP2 and I'm sorry, but he had his chance and showed to be under prepared, arrogant and all around not up for the job.
The simple truth is that he got his backers to buy him the seat and good for him, but IMO he is one of the least deserving drivers out there.
Algersuari, Buemi and Petrov are miles better than this guy. He's another Nelson Piquet Jr. In my books

Very competitive Renault? Yeah, probably one of the worst cars on the grid in late 2009.
Underprepared? Yes, he was. The difference is that now he is not underprepared any more.
Again, considering Grosjean as an undeserving F1 driver based on sponsorship sounds funny, when most of the midfield has found their seats with the help of backers these days.
Alguersuari, who was hopelessly out of his depth in late 2009, when he made his F1 debut in similar circumstances to Grosjean's. Or Petrov, who was pretty horrible in 2010. Piquet Jr, who you mentioned, didn't have a worse rookie season than Petrov.

[truefan72]

Have you been smoking crack?

ok so they were a midfield team, but Grosjean did stink up the joint

[truefan72]

Have you been smoking crack?

ok so they were a midfield team ;) , but Grosjean did stink up the joint
and that's also more than just poor results, his work ethic and preparation were called into question, as was his attitude

[Koz]

ok so they were a midfield team, but Grosjean did stink up the joint
and that's also more than just poor results, his work ethic and preparation were called into question, as was his attitude

His work ethic? By whom?

[keysersoze]

With regard to Vitaly and Renault, for the most part I agree with Truefan. Boullier is making his drivers pay for the team's mistakes.

However, I think Kimi is past his prime, and Romain will probably be even on pace with the Finn.

[BDunnell]

Sutil Could, Hulkenberg Could, Petrov Could, Buemi & Alguesuari could,
Heck even Rubens shows more spirit than Trulli

I don't think any of those drivers would really be prepared to go to Caterham, would they?

[CNR]

LOL that's an understatement if any

He stunk up the joint when he was in that very competitive Renault, so much so that they did not consider him the next year, or the year after, and chose Senna as a mid-season replacement.
F1 isn't GP2 and I'm sorry, but he had his chance and showed to be under prepared, arrogant and all around not up for the job.
The simple truth is that he got his backers to buy him the seat and good for him, but IMO he is one of the least deserving drivers out there.
Algersuari, Buemi and Petrov are miles better than this guy. He's another Nelson Piquet Jr. In my books

well they should send Alonso packing if as you say he was in that very competitive Renault 2009 Alonso 26 points
Formula 1 (http://www.formula1.com/results/driver/2009/30.html)

[CNR]

DO REMEMBER
Renault is not apart of the team anymore only engine supplier

Renault F1 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renault_F1)

In 2010, Renault sold a majority stake in the team to Genii Capital (http://www.motorsportforums.com/wiki/Genii_Capital), a Luxembourg (http://www.motorsportforums.com/wiki/Luxembourg) based investment company.[18] (http://www.motorsportforums.com/#cite_note-17) However Renault still retained a 25% share in the team and continued as an engine supplier.

i think the 25% lotus now owns was the Renault 25%

[CNR]

Q:what is a pay drive ?
A: some one with sponsorship backing


F1: Sutil To Williams ??? :: PaddockTalk :: F1, Formula 1, NASCAR, IndyCar, MotoGP, ALMS, And More! (http://paddocktalk.com/news/html/story-180208.html)

Adrian Sutil has a firm eye on Williams as formula one's driver lineup for 2012 takes more shape.

[zako85]

With regard to Vitaly and Renault, for the most part I agree with Truefan. Boullier is making his drivers pay for the team's mistakes.


100% agree on this one.

Petrov himself has complained that the car hadn't been developed for 10 races or more, and also bad strategies cost him a lot of points. The culmination of this unraveling was the Singapore race where Lotus Renaults struggled behind "the other Lotus". I don't see how he or Heidfeld could have done a lot better with what they had. It will be interesting what Petrov is going to say about his real experience with the team, once he is not bound by any contractual agreements with it.

[jens]

Hmm, regarding Petrov I can share some of the sympathy here as he had a decent season, especially by his standards. Even Senna was showing some promise with several strong qualifying performances. I wouldn't mind if either of them found a seat elsewhere, most likely at the back of the grid. Marussia has two drivers confirmed, but perhaps they would hire Petrov as a reserve driver with a long-term contract that guarantees him a race seat for 2013? Well, a similar deal to what Force India has been doing with their new drivers. In Senna's case I wouldn't rule out the possibility that he would stay on as a reserve driver somewhere.

But can't blame Lotus for dumping Petrov/Senna, because there are a lot of good drivers around and they need to make hard decisions... and those decisions are bound to affect someone badly. Force India and STR have a similar situation - both have more good drivers than available seats, so they are forced to leave someone out. Perhaps Lotus felt that after a difficult 2011 a fresh start is needed and they thought taking a gamble on a completely new driver line-up would be worthwhile if they felt recent drivers were never going to be real top drivers anyway.

What can i say there programers must be smokeing crack. honestly almost every time they have "upgraded" over the years they just slow it down and make it worse. not just the tv section but yahoo in general. now also let me state i like yahoo as a home page/search engine/ most anything else but they really need some programers that have some real experance with the way the web works cause the ones they have are either 1. just stupid. 2. just out of school(grade school???). or 3 just trying to make us switch to google. any way thats my opinion take it for what its worth.

[zako85]

Every team is obsessed with "discovering" the next baby Vettel, Schumacher, Hamilton, etc. Drivers like Senna, Vettel, and Schumacher had managed to make quite a statement in at least one race in their first years with a full time drive. Hence, this explains some of the shuffles going on every year in the junior driver ranks. Though, I can still see Petrov as driver with a good potential. His 2010 Abu Dhabi drive cost Alonso a title, and later he went on to take his first podium this year. If his words are to be believed, the Renault car hasn't been developed for much of the year, hence the lackluster performance towards the end of year. Grosjean may be a driver with a good potential, but I do not believe that Grosjean was hired purely based on his performance record this time.

In the end, I think chances are good for Petrov to return to F1, if not this year, then perhaps later. Meanwhile, he could spend a year being an F1 test driver or racing something else. I think that currently grid lineup is quite stale with a lot of seats used by drivers who should have retired by now IMHO. Hopefully, we will see a lot more seats open up for fresh blood in 2013. If the next season mirrors the 2011, I can see Barrichello, Schumacher, Massa, Trulli, and Webber retiring, and maybe few others, leaving plenty of seats.

[Koz]

DO REMEMBER
Renault is not apart of the team anymore only engine supplier

Renault F1 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renault_F1)


i think the 25% lotus now owns was the Renault 25%

On the same page it says:


On 5 November 2010, Autosport reported that Renault was poised to scale back its involvement in 2011 and become only an engine supplier, with the team closing in on a tie-up with Lotus Cars to buy its 25% stake in the team.

[RS]

Hulkenberg and Di Resta confirmed at Force India.

Surely Sutil is on his way to Williams.

[truefan72]

Hulkenberg and Di Resta confirmed at Force India.

Surely Sutil is on his way to Williams.

too bad

Yes, I hope he lands at Williams or Caterham
Or even better, as Mercedes 3rd driver for that 2013/14 MSC seat

[DazzlaF1]

So its all taking shape quite nicely now

RED BULL RENAULT: 1. Sebastian Vettel (GER), 2. Mark Webber (AUS)
McLAREN MERCEDES: 3. Jenson Button (GBR), 4. Lewis Hamilton (GBR)
FERRARI: 5. Fernando Alonso (SPA), 6. Felipe Massa (BRA)
MERCEDES: 7. Michael Schumacher (GER), 8. Nico Rosberg (GER)
LOTUS RENAULT: 9. Kimi Raikkonen (FIN), 10. Romain Grosjean (FRA)
FORCE INDIA MERCEDES: 11. Paul di Resta (GBR), 12. Nico Hulkenberg (GER)
SAUBER FERRARI : 14. Kamui Kobayashi (JPN), 15. Sergio Perez (MEX)
TORO ROSSO FERRARI: 16. Daniel Ricciardo (AUS), 17. Jean-Eric Vergne (FRA)
WILLIAMS RENAULT: 18. Pastor Maldonado (VEN), 19. ???
CATERHAM RENAULT: 20. Heikki Kovalainen (FIN), 21. Jarno Trulli (ITA)*
HRT COSWORTH: 22. Pedro de la Rosa (SPA), 23. ???
MARUSSIA COSWORTH: 24. Timo Glock (GER), 25. Charles Pic (FRA)

*Debatable

NOTABLE DRIVERS STILL AVAILABLE: Adrian Sutil (GER), Vitaly Petrov (RUS), Jaime Alguersuari (SPA), Sebastien Buemi (SUI), Rubens Barrichello (BRA), Vitantonio Liuzzi (ITA)

[Dr. Krogshöj]

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/6974/f12012.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/404/f12012.jpg/)

[Roamy]

Ferrari would really like to dump Massa. Maybe they send him to Williams and take Sutil

[DazzlaF1]

Thats what they'd love but I think Sutil will end up at Williams and Alguersuari at HRT

[CNR]

THIS IS BS why when a good driver can push a bad car
F1 : Veteran Barrichello back in the running for Williams Formula 1 race seat (http://www.f1sa.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=32378:f1--veteran-barrichello-back-in-the-running-for-williams-formula-1-race-seat&catid=1:f1&Itemid=157)

It has been rumoured Barrichello, whose tally well beyond 300 Grands Prix is an outright Formula 1 record, has managed to amass $5 million in personal sponsorship to offer Williams F1, about the same potentially brought to the team by German Sutil's backer Medion.

[davidjwest]

Anyone think Rubens will still be at Williams in 2012? What about Liuzzi, will he stay at HRT?

[RS]

Liuzzi has a three year contract with HRT (and a bloody good manager apparantely!) but he sounds realistic about his chances: Liuzzi: HRT still searching for budget - GPUpdate.net (http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/273449/liuzzi-hrt-still-searching-for-budget/)

[Nikki Katz]

I don't think Barrichello at Williams would be that bad. It's a shame to lose Sutil but if he's looking at a stretch in jail then realistically his F1 career is over. Even if he's fully acquitted, nobody's going to sign him while it's still hanging over him.

I doubt Hispania can afford both de la Rosa and Liuzzi. It'll probably go to one of any number of pay drivers. I don't think he'll necessarily be Spanish either, really depends on sponsorship. I hope Liuzzi doesn't sue...

[The Black Knight]

My guess is that Williams have delayed their second driver announced pending the verdict of the court in Germany. If Sutil is found guilty, I expect Barrichello to be announced. Otherwise I'd expect Sutil to take the seat.

While I'd like to see Senna take the seat it'd be hard to justify him over Rubens unless he brings so much sponsorship Williams simply can't refuse. But having two pay drivers is a risky route to take and would damage Williams public image immensely, in my opinion.

[CNR]

But having two pay drivers is a risky route to take and would damage Williams public image immensely, in my opinion.
Rubens has 5000000 backing so that would make him a pay driver this year
FORMULA ONE - F1: Barrichello Back In Running For Williams Seat (http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/f1-rubens-barrichello-back-in-running-for-williams-seat/)


http://www.f1sa.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=32463:f1--brazilian-senna-signs-deal-to-complete-williams-formula-1-driver-line-up&catid=1:f1&Itemid=157

Williams is set to complete its 2012 Formula One race driver line-up after Bruno Senna signed a contract.

[The Black Knight]

Bruno Senna appears to have landed the Williams seat:

Bruno Senna joins Williams | Williams | Formula 1 news, live F1 | ESPN F1 (http://en.espnf1.com/williams/motorsport/story/68089.html)

Looks like it's goodbye to F1 for Barrichello and Sutil.

[Robinho]

Senna confirmed in a Williams Renault, never thought i'd be seeing that statement again

Williams confirms Bruno Senna will race for the team in F1 in 2012 - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97056)

[Robinho]

i don't necessarily think we have seen the last of Sutil, court case dependent

[jens]

Sutil may indeed still come back or at least become a "new Heidfeld" by becoming an adequate replacement driver during the season.

[Nikki Katz]

If the court case goes well I could imagine Sutil dropping into Trulli's seat mid-season, assuming that he's not replaced by a pay driver before that.

Probably the last we'll see of Barrichello though, unless that sponsorship is transferrable to Hispania. I doubt it somehow...

[RS]

Why not Barrichello to Caterham to replace Trulli. Ok, they're both old but at least Rubens still seems interested and motivated.

[Roamy]

Why not Barrichello to Caterham to replace Trulli. Ok, they're both old but at least Rubens still seems interested and motivated.

Yes it is time to stick a fork in these two _ They are done

[jens]

Why not Barrichello to Caterham to replace Trulli. Ok, they're both old but at least Rubens still seems interested and motivated.

Trulli certainly had some (performance) problems during 2011, but I think it is a bit unfair to consider him unmotivated and disinterested without knowing his personality. If anything, his endless complaints about powersteering indicate that he is still motivated and wants to push for improvement in the team. I don't see the benefit of replacing Trulli with Barrichello. Besides all, Gascoyne rates Trulli's feedback very highly.

[ArrowsFA1]

The grid is complete:

Narain Karthikeyan will drive the second HRT during the 2012 F1 season - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97277)

[Nikki Katz]

I see that van der Garde got the Caterham reserve seat - surely this means that either the deal with Petrov has fallen through, or that he's going to be slotted right into Trulli's seat for the first race...

[RS]

I see that van der Garde got the Caterham reserve seat - surely this means that either the deal with Petrov has fallen through, or that he's going to be slotted right into Trulli's seat for the first race...

Caterham are the only team who have not confirmed their test line up for next week. There were also no stickers with the driver names on the launch car.

Announcement on Monday?

Failing that I guess Petrov will end up as Marussia reserve with Friday driving and guaranteed race seat for 2013.

[Nikki Katz]

Caterham are the only team who have not confirmed their test line up for next week. There were also no stickers with the driver names on the launch car.

Announcement on Monday?

Failing that I guess Petrov will end up as Marussia reserve with Friday driving and guaranteed race seat for 2013.
I don't know why Marussia didn't go with him to start off with. He's no worse than Pic, probably a bit better actually, and loads more cash and would be a Russian driver at a Russian team. He was clearly going to lose his Lotus seat by that point.