Driver/donkey of the race

[N4D13]

Mind if I open a single thread for both things? I haven't seen any thread about this, anyway.

Vettel gets the prize for me - won from pole on the fastest car, yes, but also led the entire race and got fastest lap. That's as good as it gets. Honorable mentions for Button, Alonso and Alguersuari.

Massa gets the donkey this time, IMHO - the collision with Hamilton was absurd (had he forgotten that Lewis was there?), and then had to retire because of a suspension failure which probably was his fault, as Alonso must have had the same suspension, yet didn't break it.

[Dave B]

Mind if I open a single thread for both things? I haven't seen any thread about this, anyway.

Vettel gets the prize for me - won from pole on the fastest car, yes, but also led the entire race and got fastest lap. That's as good as it gets. Honorable mentions for Button, Alonso and Alguersuari.

Massa gets the donkey this time, IMHO - the collision with Hamilton was absurd (had he forgotten that Lewis was there?), and then had to retire because of a suspension failure which probably was his fault, as Alonso must have had the same suspension, yet didn't break it.

I'll agree with all of the above, and also nominate Karthikayan in both catagories. Driver because all weekend he's been matching the much-fancied Riccardo, and coping with the pressure of racing at his home circuit; but Donkey because he did have a habit of being unaware of faster drivers coming up behind him.

[donKey jote]

I agree with N080DY 2 :p

[wedge]

Kovy for Driver of the Day.

Stewards for Donkey of the Day.

[vhatever]

Hard not to give Seb driver of the race. What is that term when you get fastest lap, pole, win, and lead the entire race?? Grand malchalmo or something?? Pretty damn rare especially these days when the top 6 cars are are so close to each other in performance.


Johny Herbert is the jackass, he no doubt is the reason for that bogus penalty on massa. Both ham and massa were at fault in that one, both overly aggressive. Racing incident.

[MAX_THRUST]

Massa for wrecking his right hans suspension Q3 and then the left in the race, no one else did...and for slowing to allow lewis to get close and then shuting the door He slowed in Singapore too. He clearly doesn't learn

[jens]

Vettel and Button did well to run away from the field. As did Alonso for beating Webber for the final podium position and getting the best possible result for Ferrari. Nice race by Mercedes drivers, especially Schumacher. Alguersuari is cementing his place in F1, but nowadays Toro Rosso looks mighty anyway as Buemi was just a couple of second behind him before retirement. Pérez had a nice entrance into the points after a very low grid position. Kovalainen is impressing. Lotus has been improving recently and he has had the opportunity to mix it with the established teams in race trim. Hoping for more in 2012. And of course, Karthikeyan did well. :)

[Mia 01]

Best drivers: Seb and MS.

Bad driver: Lewis, he drove straight into Felipes sidepods. Another one on Lewis tally.

[Ranger]

Vettel, Button and Karthikeyan are drivers of the day.

The stewards decision I do not understand, there was no way 2 cars could have gone into that corner.

Karthikeyan was pretty awful in traffic as well.

Webber is without doubt having his worst season ever, he just sank today. Hard to think that he led the WDC for longer than anyone last year. :\ I do hope he picks it up next year.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Massa for wrecking his right hans suspension Q3 and then the left in the race, no one else did...and for slowing to allow lewis to get close and then shuting the door He slowed in Singapore too. He clearly doesn't learn

I think Massa slowed on both occasions because he was approaching a turn. :eek:

[Garry Walker]

Pretty damn rare especially these days when the top 6 cars are are so close to each other in performance.


The other cars are close to Red Bull in performance? Yeah, just as close as Opel Corsa is to Ferrari Enzo.

Driver of the race: Alonso, Button
Idiot: STEWARDS, Massa (for being stupid with curbs in qualy and in race)

[jens]

I'm glad Garry Walker is so generous and didn't nominate Vettel for donkey of the race for failing to lap the whole field in such a dominant car. :p :

[donKey jote]

Vettel donkey of the race for ruining Webber's strategy ;) :p

[F1boat]

Vettel - Driver of the Race, with honorable mention of M Schumacher.
Massa - donkey.

[vhatever]

The other cars are close to Red Bull in performance? Yeah, just as close as Opel Corsa is to Ferrari Enzo.

Driver of the race: Alonso, Button
Idiot: STEWARDS, Massa (for being stupid with curbs in qualy and in race)

Ya, the red bull is so awesome only vettel can win with it and mclaren has had shown better pace in half the tracks, as well as both drivers being able to win in it. You just can't get over the fact vettel is by far the best F1 driver right now. Get used to it.
"It" being vettel dominating, not jingoistic bigotry.

[jens]

The McLaren seems to have the speed if they concentrate on qualifying and sacrifice speed for the race it seems. Korea was an example of that. If McLaren qualify on their race setup, we see them becoming fastest in the latter part of the race, but the Red Bull seem to handle their tyres better on heavier fuel loads at the beginning and are able to pull out the gap they need. Whether or not the McLarens appear faster in the latter stages is down to them having more grip as they get lighter and the Red Bulls turning down their engines when comfortable, we just don't know.

Regarding RBR's quickness after the start... I remember, when no refueling was introduced, it was said that the Renault engine was less thirsty than others and that's why teams using that engine would benefit by being especially fast in the beginning of races as they would need to carry less fuel. There hasn't been any mention of this theory recently, but perhaps could be the case?

[DexDexter]

The driver and donkey of the race was Vettel, cause it's incredibly boring to watch the same driver win time and time again. Thank God the driver is at least a good one, not a mansell with gismos.

[Knock-on]

Seb is just romping it at the moment but I think Button edged it for me today. All round the in and out laps he was massive and to only be a couple of seconds behind in a car that is still at least 1/4 a second behind the red bull is amazing.

Massa was my Donkey today. he was not only the sole driver to wreck his car on the Baguettes but repeated the rookie mistake in the race. Turning in on Lewis is symptomatic of the attitude he has this season. He is rapidly turning from one of the most likeable drivers in the field to a joke. However, I think a lot of the reason behind this change is his frustration at having his role as a Lap Dog tattoo'd to his ass.

Lewis also gets a mention for the Donk. Jenson proved what the car can do but Lewis looked like a fart in a trance today. Wish he will get his $hit together soon.

[Robinho]

Driver -Seb, closely followed by Button and Schumacher for me. good job by Alguesari to bring home some more points too.

Donkey - as other thread, Massa for destroying his suspension again on the kerbs that everyone else avoided, and for causing an avoidable accident (the stewards are always right, I've been told enough times this year), Hamilton for being a bit pants in the race and generally looking like a moody teenager at the moment and the Dust for negating the lovely wide track

[i_max2k2]

Seb, Button and MS, and in that order.

Donkey - Steward who gave massa a penalty, I dont think Massa was a donkey, cause people were saying his was the only car running the weird flexi wing, and that could have caused the suspension to lose strength and eventually brake down.

[Knock-on]

He saw lewis alongside and decided to turn in anyway. Really crap Massa, really crap. :down:

[ioan]

Regarding RBR's quickness after the start... I remember, when no refueling was introduced, it was said that the Renault engine was less thirsty than others and that's why teams using that engine would benefit by being especially fast in the beginning of races as they would need to carry less fuel. There hasn't been any mention of this theory recently, but perhaps could be the case?

The Renault is not only a frugal engine it also has less power than the Mercedes and Ferrari engines so it is a rather mute point IMO.

[Knock-on]

The Renault is not only a frugal engine it also has less power than the Mercedes and Ferrari engines so it is a rather mute point IMO.

Used to. Don't you remember the FIA gave them leave to catch up or did you conveniently forget that ;)

[ioan]

Used to. Don't you remember the FIA gave them leave to catch up or did you conveniently forget that ;)

All of them were given that possibility until a couple of years ago. IMO Renault made the choice to go with less consumption and thus less power given the race fuel regulation.

[anthonyvop]

The should just go ahead and name it the "Lewis Hamilton Donkey of the Race Award"

[kfzmeister]

He saw lewis alongside and decided to turn in anyway. Really crap Massa, really crap. :down:

Hamilton lifted and besides, you go off the line and you're off. Lewis hit Massa's rear tire not the front. What's that say about position? Steward is Donkey!

[555-04Q2]

The race steward who made the Massa/Hammy call. Think it was Herbert?

[F16]

Lewis is trying to take from the inside and Massa is trying to defend. Is it only me, Massa is visible already at the front, actually he can avoid hitting Massa's rear wheel, 'too offensive'. For being offensive and defensive drivers both drivers deserve penalty imo.

Man of the race is Mr. Bean, pulling facial expression for the incident.

[penagate]

Donkey - as other thread, Massa for destroying his suspension again on the kerbs that everyone else avoided


I don't think Massa is totally at fault for this one. In this onboard video (http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xm02mk_indian-gp-2011-onboard-with-schumacher_auto) Michael consistently hits the 'baguettes' (including the one that Massa hit during the race) with no ill effects. It seems to me that the area around joint between the pushrod and upright/wishbone on the Ferrari is simply too weak.

[Warriwa]

Lewis is trying to take from the inside and Massa is trying to defend. Is it only me, Massa is visible already at the front, actually he can avoid hitting Massa's rear wheel, 'too offensive'. For being offensive and defensive drivers both drivers deserve penalty imo.

Man of the race is Mr. Bean, pulling facial expression for the incident.

I laughed out loud when I saw Bean do his face, and then I started to question myself.
Was it really a Bean expression?

[Knock-on]

All of them were given that possibility until a couple of years ago. IMO Renault made the choice to go with less consumption and thus less power given the race fuel regulation.

What?? That really is the one of the most brain dead posts I have read on here in a long time!! (And there has been quite a lot of competition)

Renault purpously made the choice to have a less powerful engine because it gave them better fuel consumption. :crazy:

They will always go for the most useable power vs reliability vs fuel consumption. No engine manufacturer would cripple themselves in a Motor Racing series by purpously designing a more fuel efficient engine with less power unless there was a fuel restriction on the race itself that affected them.

I really have read it all now :rolleyes:

[SGWilko]

Seb, Button and MS, and in that order.

Donkey - Steward who gave massa a penalty, I dont think Massa was a donkey, cause people were saying his was the only car running the weird flexi wing, and that could have caused the suspension to lose strength and eventually brake down.

Cough cough cbull5hitough

[SGWilko]

I don't think Massa is totally at fault for this one. In this onboard video (http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xm02mk_indian-gp-2011-onboard-with-schumacher_auto) Michael consistently hits the 'baguettes' (including the one that Massa hit during the race) with no ill effects. It seems to me that the area around joint between the pushrod and upright/wishbone on the Ferrari is simply too weak.

No excuse for not realising this when he knocked the tracking out before.

[SGWilko]

I really have read it all now :rolleyes:

Mia will be along shortly to dispute that........

[ioan]

What?? That really is the one of the most brain dead posts I have read on here in a long time!! (And there has been quite a lot of competition)

Renault purpously made the choice to have a less powerful engine because it gave them better fuel consumption. :crazy:

They will always go for the most useable power vs reliability vs fuel consumption. No engine manufacturer would cripple themselves in a Motor Racing series by purpously designing a more fuel efficient engine with less power unless there was a fuel restriction on the race itself that affected them.

I really have read it all now :rolleyes:

Mate turn on your brain next time before posting.
Or maybe you're smarter than Renault engine department, which I very highly doubt, in fact I am very sure about it.
Also if you managed to come up with a highly competitive engine that puts out more power at less consumption than the cometition from Mercedes and Ferrari can do then by all means contact Renault and you'll be rich!
Or just keep yourself from posting such embarrassing hot air.

[SGWilko]

Mate turn on your brain next time before posting.
Or maybe you're smarter than Renault engine department, which I very highly doubt, in fact I am very sure about it.
Also if you managed to come up with a highly competitive engine that puts out more power at less consumption than the cometition from Mercedes and Ferrari can do then by all means contact Renault and you'll be rich!
Or just keep yourself from posting such embarrassing hot air.

Renault has, with the grateful help of one C Horner, been jumping up and down as recently as last season bleating on about how they are down on power and that it is just not fair on them.

As a result of this inability to build an engine that a) remains intact when rotating at 18k rpm and b)as a result had to compromise on power output, they have themselves a frugal motor.

When they finally worked out how to fix it and started the 'more power campaign', they needed to be allowed special dispensation to do it, and I suspect they were allowed to 'equalise' their performance.

If the motor was now so down on power, what is the logic behind also using an underpowered but space optimised KERS???????

[ioan]

Renault has, with the grateful help of one C Horner, been jumping up and down as recently as last season bleating on about how they are down on power and that it is just not fair on them.

As a result of this inability to build an engine that a) remains intact when rotating at 18k rpm and b)as a result had to compromise on power output, they have themselves a frugal motor.

When they finally worked out how to fix it and started the 'more power campaign', they needed to be allowed special dispensation to do it, and I suspect they were allowed to 'equalise' their performance.

If the motor was now so down on power, what is the logic behind also using an underpowered but space optimised KERS???????

What part of IMO didn't you and knockie understand?

[SGWilko]

What part of IMO didn't you and knockie understand?

The IMO bit?

[Dave B]

I don't think Massa is totally at fault for this one. In this onboard video (http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xm02mk_indian-gp-2011-onboard-with-schumacher_auto) Michael consistently hits the 'baguettes' (including the one that Massa hit during the race) with no ill effects. It seems to me that the area around joint between the pushrod and upright/wishbone on the Ferrari is simply too weak.

Hitting the baguettes and running over the top of them is one thing, but it seems that Massa may have been going that little bit further and hooking the inside of his wheel over the crown and pulling the suspension in a direction it was never designed for.

[Bagwan]

If we are calling them "baguettes" , then I think we should call what Massa did "buttering" .

[SGWilko]

If we are calling them "baguettes" , then I think we should call what Massa did "buttering" .

No way Pedro! The Shoe was buttering, Massa was battering....

[AndyL]

If we are calling them "baguettes" , then I think we should call what Massa did "buttering" .

How about "cheesing". Massa cheesed the baguette and stiltoned his suspension. He should have driven more caerphilly.

[SGWilko]

How about "cheesing". Massa cheesed the baguette and stiltoned his suspension. He should have driven more caerphilly.

:s mokin: !!!

[Dave B]

Rob Smedley: Felipe, babybel.

[Knock-on]

I think he toasted the suspension :D

[Knock-on]

Mate turn on your brain next time before posting.
Or maybe you're smarter than Renault engine department, which I very highly doubt, in fact I am very sure about it.
Also if you managed to come up with a highly competitive engine that puts out more power at less consumption than the cometition from Mercedes and Ferrari can do then by all means contact Renault and you'll be rich!
Or just keep yourself from posting such embarrassing hot air.

I'm not the one who's opinion is that Renault use a less powerful engine on purpose because it's more economical. Perhaps Toyota will be back with a Prius at this rate :laugh:

[Bagwan]

Come on you guys .
Brie serious here .

We don't wine Pino to get crusty or cheesed off about us getting off topic .

Was it something about donkeys running less powerful engines or something ?
Cheese of the race goes to Mr. Bean , the un-camembere-able . That was no actor . It was Bean .

[SGWilko]

Come on you guys .
Brie serious here .

We don't wine Pino to get crusty or cheesed off about us getting off topic .

Was it something about donkeys running less powerful engines or something ?
Cheese of the race goes to Mr. Bean , the un-camembere-able . That was no actor . It was Bean .

Someone is on form today........

[donKey jote]

Massa presented Ham with a feta complete

[MAX_THRUST]

I appreciiate Massa had to slow for the turn but he seemd to slow more tha required. Cool face to prove your point.... I think Lewis has rattled Massa some what....It would rattle me if the same driver kept hitting me.

[Malbec]

In the last 18 months Renault and Ferrari have been granted permission to make changes to their engines to ensure reliability. Ferrari had the biggest compromise as they lost nearly 30bhp with their changes whereas Renault have made the neccessary changes, which has seen no engine failures in the top Reanult powered teams. We also have to remember that after Silverstone with the exhaust row, we learnt that Renault engines relied on more than the recommended amount of 'blowing' to remain reliable. As both cars have been designed with this in mind, it highlights that we have a faster Mercedes engine rivalled against a car that is running a system that gives them more grip when cornering. I think next season the difference will really show when red Bull have to design a car without an exhaust blown diffuser.

IIRC despite Renault having special dispensation to add performance parts to close the gap with Mercedes/Ferrari at the start of 2009 they are still down on power. Their major advantage over Ferrari in particular, and one of the reasons Red Bull chose Renaults for RBR and Ferraris for STR is that the Renault is more heat efficient, allowing the use of smaller radiators and therefore reducing air resistance.

The Renaults are more frugal but as others have said that is partly a result of their lack of power. They are supposed to be relatively torquey though unlike the Ferrari which focuses more on top end power. The Mercedes probably has the best combination of torque and overall power though.

As for the need for Renault engines to 'hot blow', I think thats BS used to get the blown diffuser ban rescinded. The engines are largely unchanged from the time when exhaust blown diffusers were not used, I'm sure they can be modified effortlessly to run without hot blowing.

[Garry Walker]

He saw lewis alongside and decided to turn in anyway. Really crap Massa, really crap. :down:

What should he have done? Go straight and let Hamilton pass him?

[Mia 01]

I don´t think there is any driver scared of Lewis anymoore.

[SGWilko]

I don´t think there is any driver scared of Lewis anymoore.

No-one was scared of Lewis in the first place - he just made most of them look amateur until they got wise to his racecraft and started blocking his moves..... ;)

[SGWilko]

What should he have done? Go straight and let Hamilton pass him?

Let's think shall we.....

Ummmmm, turn in and crash or brake earlier and don't crash? Remember that Massa left the gap and was aware of his opponents position alongside. Perhaps Massa shouting Alakazam in his helmet failed to make the other car dissapear on this occasion!!! :laugh:

[Knock-on]

What should he have done? Go straight and let Hamilton pass him?

He could have done 2 things; protected his corner or allow racing room.

it is against the rules to cause an accident by purposely crashing into someone.

I really can't believe that even after Massa admitting he knew he was there and could see him, people are defending him deliberately turning into a crash.

Perhaps he's learnt more from his former mentor than we thought :D

[ShiftingGears]

Massa had so much more grip, the racing line, and was ahead on the racetrack, and therefore, it was worth taking a gamble that he could pull that much of a gap in the braking zone. That's it.

They both deserved the immediate outcome of that accident, because they both gambled on it and thought they could get away cleanly.

But penalising what was clearly a racing incident was just utterly embarrassing. I hope they don't ask Herbert or any of the other faceless stewards with him back. They are the donkeys here.

[Knock-on]

Massa left a McLaren sized gap and Lewis filled it. Any driver that doesn't go for a gap like that should hang up his helmet or apply for the lap-dog job at Ferrari.

[Bagwan]

Massa left a McLaren sized gap and Lewis filled it. Any driver that doesn't go for a gap like that should hang up his helmet or apply for the lap-dog job at Ferrari.

The McLaren #2 only half-filled it , and was backing out of it .

Lap-dog thought he had .

[SGWilko]

The McLaren #2 only half-filled it , and was backing out of it .

Lap-dog thought he had .

Thinking is a way off knowing. Hoping is as much use of 'thinking' in this instance.

[Bagwan]

Thinking is a way off knowing. Hoping is as much use of 'thinking' in this instance.

Whilst Mousa was responsible for allowing room enough for Lewis down the inside , he knew as well as Lewis that the grip wasn't there .
So , you have one guy thinking , "He won't go there ." , and you have another thinking , "He doesn't think I'll go there ." .

So far , it's racing .

We proceed to Lewis going there , and getting about two-thirds along side of Felipe .
At this point , Mousa is still ahead , and Lewis has much less grip .

At this point , they both make the same decision , based on the right to the line into the corner , that Felipe has the right of way , essentially , as one moves to get out of the way , and the other moves to take the corner .


Hamilton then brakes as late as he dares , seeing his opponent surge ahead as he does , as he had judged that Felipe was going to take the racing line , knowing he could brake later .

Had Hammy decided to back out a small fraction of a second earlier , or , if Mousa had decided to turn in , as they both by then knew he would , that same small fraction later , they wouldn't have touched at all , and the talk here would have been about how hard and close it was , lauding both drivers for lightning reflexes and cool nerves .

As it is , though , we have never ending debate .

I don't think it's about whether Mousa left room , or whether Lew Lew braked too late , or anything else , but rather , that they both mis-judged a moment in tarmac .

Penalize neither , but give them both a good slap in the back of the head .

[Garry Walker]

Massa left a McLaren sized gap and Lewis filled it. Any driver that doesn't go for a gap like that should hang up his helmet or apply for the lap-dog job at Ferrari.

And any driver that in Massa's position, where he is far in front of the other driver, just gives up the corner to avoid a collision, should at once retire from racing.

[i_max2k2]

Or at the very least, not moan if they get taken out.

Yep shouldn't moan when he gets the penalty for it. :p