Rally2 (ex-R5) News [Archive] - Page 16

Mirek

6th March 2016, 21:31

The Mirage is built 100% to fit Fia r5 regulations, and belive Me when i say that it has been not an easy way to go, many major things had been changed during the way and both sbf and fia technicians are involved in the project.

M-part the company developing Mirage r5 is the swedish ralliart/mitsubishi parts dealer
It would be difficoult for them to build on other brand or build on mitsubishi without their involvment dont you think? (-;
But the strategy can be to get a competitive car with proven reliability before locking a homologation...?

Thank You for the answer. Good to hear that. Good luck!

nafpaktos

7th March 2016, 15:03

not easy to adapt for the driver as plenty of "special" parts.
Such as?is that a factor that can disturb a driver?

br21

7th March 2016, 17:41

Such as?is that a factor that can disturb a driver?

like for example single brake master cylinder for both front and rear, so bias is not adjustable. of course it works OK after so many kms of testing Skoda done, but you need time to get used to the feeling it gives. also gears are pretty long so, even with big torque of that engine, it forces you to use always right gear, especially on twiesty sections, same with long ratios - downshifting in low gears needs attention as easy to lock wheels because of big ratio differences.
of course all those things are not bad, but you need time to adapt to it, and for weaker drivers it's not always that easy. also not easily adjustable ARBs makes almost impossible changing their settings without service, so sometimes some "compromise" needed.

dimviii

7th March 2016, 18:05

nice info br21,thanks mate!

Andre Oliveira

8th March 2016, 19:13

More 3 jokers of evolution to Fiesta R5 applied to chassis. The first evo chassis upgraded is 148 to L Racing. (NOT APPLIED ON ATUAL CHASSIS)

https://scontent-mad1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtf1/v/t1.0-9/12805704_1117062381666724_8848769805576059469_n.jp g?oh=b29afeb31833899ebea58269e36fbe6a&oe=574FB295
https://scontent-mad1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/12794396_1117062345000061_7420456534476123679_n.jp g?oh=61aca85a0370c188d1c649e436d8c11f&oe=578F9DC3

Sulland

8th March 2016, 22:29

Where and what are the jokers?

Andre Oliveira

8th March 2016, 23:54

M-Sport had 6 jokers to upgrade the car.

3 at january 1st to engine, gearbox and transmission
3 at march 1st to chassis (not aplicable in existent chassis).

So it is a kind of EVO2 of Ford Fiesta R5.

Munkvy

9th March 2016, 06:22

Any idea what the chassis upgrade was? I struggle with the FIA site and wonder if it would be available anyway?

Simmi

9th March 2016, 09:16

Were there not also supposed to be some aerodynamic updates coming up for the Fiesta - or did I dream that?

Mirek

9th March 2016, 09:43

Previously they announced to consider whether spending a joker on aerodynamics is a good idea. I wouldn't be surprised if they found it didn't bring any reasonable benefit to justify spending a joker.

Andre Oliveira

9th March 2016, 10:10

We need wait for oficial homologation sheet of FIA. Actual only show the jokers of january.

9th March 2016, 10:10

When are jokers allowed? Two years after first homologation?

br21

9th March 2016, 10:15

Only real available joker for Fiesta now is engine. Other are parts of some bigger kits which will be available later in the year, hopefully in April.
Same with Citroen now, new Jokers released in January, but currently nothing is (and can be) changed as rest of kits which consist those "joker" parts will be homologated in March (hopefuly) and available in April.

Sulland

9th March 2016, 10:30

First order for the Hyundai i20 R5 from the Italian HMI team.
This according to eMotorsport
http://www.emotorsport.se/nyheter.php?in=2&nyhets_id=11863

Andre Oliveira

9th March 2016, 10:46

Confirmed by HMI.

Sulland

10th March 2016, 19:20

We are soon getting into the periode where R5 cars will be in different Evo stages. Would be nice if the teams could specify if the car they fill out the entryform for is an evo 1, 2 and so on.

makes it easier for us spectators to comprare the driver performance in a rally!

Mirek

11th March 2016, 10:05

It's unrealistic wish. I don't know if You have ever seen some entry forms but You're often lucky when they fill at least the class correctly. It seems way too much to ask proper name of the car not speaking about its evolution stage. In fact it's quite impossible as the cars may and will be made of a mixture of various evolution jokers. Who can say how many jokers used make it already an evo? :)

Sulland

11th March 2016, 15:11

Have seen some entry forms, and find them a bit unpractical for the entrant.

Here is the one for 2016 i think. And it could be possible to put in evo1 in the car field (that could be longer!!)
See the issue of mid version Evo, almost like the evo 6.5, but still would be nice to encourage the teams to specify.
https://www.fiaerc.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Entry-form.pdf

Pretty big difference btw Fiesta blank, and evo1!

Sulland

12th March 2016, 00:54

https://www.facebook.com/LoebRacing/photos/a.251283901596901.61404.246116325446992/1020277438030873/?type=3

Quentin Giordano new 208 T16.

Andre Oliveira

13th March 2016, 17:05

2 more to 2C Competition. 4 now

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CdcJFz9XEAEPA_d.jpg

marcosg

13th March 2016, 18:25

m-sport to give more power to r5 and wrc engines

14th March 2016, 06:35

m-sport to give more power to r5 and wrc engines

In addition to the R5 Evo upgrade?

Edit: Yes, it's a software update.

Andre Oliveira

16th March 2016, 14:47

Toyota Etios R5 by Toyotoshi team. Presentation march 28th

TheFlyingTuga

16th March 2016, 14:56

A Paraguain team making a R5? That's strange AF. I was hoping that the South African Toyota presented one... not the paraguains

Andre Oliveira

16th March 2016, 15:39

They have support from TRD Australia. S2000 came from Australia ;)

Arnold Triyudho Wardono

17th March 2016, 04:58

Toyota Etios R5 by Toyotoshi team. Presentation march 28th
If Indonesian rallying isn't in dormant state, I'd like to see this & Mirage.

Sent from my A12 using Tapatalk

EightGear

20th March 2016, 15:53

Van den Heuvel Motorsport have ordered a Hyundai R5, hoping to drive Rally Germany with it.

Jarek Z

20th March 2016, 16:17

First order for the Hyundai i20 R5 from the Italian HMI team.

Van den Heuvel Motorsport have ordered a Hyundai R5, hoping to drive Rally Germany with it.

Is that not buying a pig in a poke?

Mirek

20th March 2016, 17:12

Their WRC is good and they are very rich and capable team. It's quite sane to expect a good product.

MartijnS

20th March 2016, 17:15

Sounded like Jasper will start driving it first. They want Jim to drive with the Mitsubishi this year and next year and than probably going to the R5, but all depends on his improvement. On some stages yesterday he drove the same times as Jasper already, so looks good.

Andre Oliveira

20th March 2016, 20:34

Rumours about Hotz running one too, with Balbosca team.

br21

21st March 2016, 19:31

They are in so early stage of development now that it's impossible to say anything about Hyundai R5, simply nobody knows...

PLuto

21st March 2016, 20:55

They are in so early stage of development now that it's impossible to say anything about Hyundai R5, simply nobody knows...

Only you ;)

Sulland

22nd March 2016, 00:05

First win for Giordano in 208 with Loeb Racing.
Not a huge competition by the looks of it, but a good test I guess.

https://www.facebook.com/quentin.giordano.7/?fref=nf

dimviii

22nd March 2016, 13:15

Abbring

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CeJRT7_W4AAhxCX.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CeJRS3RWEAAUnVi.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CeJRRYCWwAEF-yG.jpg

dimviii

23rd March 2016, 14:34

Kevin Abbring in control, Hyundai Motorsport has this week continued the development of its new i20 R5, making four days of testing, both on the ground and two on asphalt, in the South of France.

Among the innovations tested by Hyundai on his R5, a new cooling system, a new shield, but already an evolution of the 1.6T engine.

The Customer Project department of Hyundai Motorsport has also announced the first firm order of a Hyundai i20 R5 by an Italian private team.

We are also able to reveal that the team Jasper van den Heuvel also ordered a R5 Hyundai to the power requirement dispose for Rallye Deutschland.

The ambition of the Dutch team is getting to know the R5 and put at the wheel forward Jim van den Heuvel, the younger brother of Jasper, which debuted globally in the Swedish Rally on a Lancer EvoX

http://www.autonews-magazine.com/blog/?p=44493

Andre Oliveira

23rd March 2016, 19:49

Selled to Topp-Cars Rallye Team (H) without race any km. Chassis 47

https://scontent-mad1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/12376687_982126955200693_693600892301761525_n.jpg? oh=a0e9c4e3a74b87887832adb4c6ed24eb&oe=578B45F9

dimviii

23rd March 2016, 20:09

Selled to Topp-Cars Rallye Team (H) without race any km. Chassis 47

switched to fiesta again after last uprade?

pantealex

23rd March 2016, 20:21

switched to fiesta again after last uprade?

He still have few Fabias...

Andre Oliveira

23rd March 2016, 21:28

He have one more. Selling at rallycarsforsale, chassis 28, available after next week Kuwait Rally

TheFlyingTuga

29th March 2016, 14:29

And here it is, the South American Toyota Etios R5.

Continuing the tradition of Toyota ugly rally cars from the 21st century :P

https://scontent-mad1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xlf1/v/t1.0-9/12063613_1593396740980111_7837067979957871559_n.jp g?oh=343d4d7a06d240285019092be8508768&oe=57747E47

Andre Oliveira

29th March 2016, 15:14

The car were made with TRD partnership. No info about global homologation but it counts to CODASUR

Franky

29th March 2016, 15:30

Continuing the tradition of Toyota ugly rally cars from the 21st century :P

Name a beautiful current Toyota model. Let's leave the big 4x4s and GT86 out

Jarek Z

29th March 2016, 16:25

No info about global homologation but it counts to CODASUR

I heard some rumours that this car will never get the homologation, because it is too ugly. Are those rumours true? ;)

Rally Power

29th March 2016, 23:24

Co-driven

30th March 2016, 00:23

What is being said around here in South America is that it was developed in South Africa (as the previous Corolla S2000).

And it complies to R5 rules.

Co-driven

30th March 2016, 00:30

By the way, this weekend the first round of the Codasur Championship will take place in Paraguay.
An impressive 10 R5 cars (a huge thing for us here in this region). Some regular names like Saba, Zaldivar and maybe Dominguez. But there are other names like Peredo and Ligato making their debut in R5 cars.

dimviii

1st April 2016, 18:38

new livery for Kajto

http://forum-rallye.com/uploads/monthly_04_2016/post-157-0-54971200-1459523239.jpg

Nornbugger

1st April 2016, 20:04

https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/12923245_10154129992462899_8332863867448644364_n.j pg?oh=e3e953b549763b7223080aca8f0d4e67&oe=57802ECD

Breens livery

1st April 2016, 21:19

I wonder why Kajto changed his livery already? It was already a new one for Canarias.

Andre Oliveira

2nd April 2016, 00:17

Etios debut not so bad ;)

https://scontent-mad1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/12938135_1330784763617614_116091892706739303_n.jpg ?oh=97dcb1323bf1a1fa8baf1a73af46a2e8&oe=57846B39

Arnold Triyudho Wardono

2nd April 2016, 03:13

That's shakedown..

Andre Oliveira

2nd April 2016, 13:48

It is a debut ;)

Fast Eddie WRC

2nd April 2016, 16:56

Great feature on Desi Henry's brand new Fabia R5:

http://blog.usedcarsni.com/henry-to-contest-the-circuit-in-the-first-skoda-fabia-r5-in-ireland/

Jarek Z

3rd April 2016, 22:04

I wonder why Kajto changed his livery already? It was already a new one for Canarias.

Stop wondering. This livery was revealed on April 1 :)

Simmi

4th April 2016, 15:23

Stop wondering. This livery was revealed on April 1 :)

Some people have a very bizarre interpretation of April Fool's Day.

TWRC

4th April 2016, 19:05

Citroën Racing has put an infocom about what the DS3 R5 Evo will bring. The update will be available from the 18th of April, and includes new on-board system (engine map selection, etc.), new power steering solution, new alternator, the already available damper update, new rear diff settings, and the full overhaul of the front of the car, with new radiator/intercooler/sumpgard/etc. If anyone's interested, the pdf is here (http://boutique.citroenracing.com/cms/web/upload/documentation/657/5702205d9f8d7.pdf).

5th April 2016, 13:00

dimviii

5th April 2016, 13:50

No change to the engine other than software then?

IIRC the power is quite high but the torque and torque curve on the PSA twins are someway short of the Fabia and Fiesta.

this can be fixed with software.

dimviii

5th April 2016, 14:03

https://scontent-bru2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/12923267_10153730034583952_167810507427361119_n.jp g?oh=7a694a0be634fb8acd30454d427ef9e1&oe=5779D94A
https://scontent-bru2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xta1/v/t1.0-9/12439433_10153730034738952_2079029912653390827_n.j pg?oh=a6302255436bf9b8c0f6f2195550ab5d&oe=577C6113

Fast Eddie WRC

5th April 2016, 21:13

SpencerSport Mitsubishi Mirage R5 in tarmac spec with Speedline Corse wheels, ready for Circuit of Ireland...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CfSvIvcWAAA9nYR.jpg:large

Francisco Pancho Peroni

5th April 2016, 23:12

The Etios went off road on the first SS and lost around 8 minutes!

Andre Oliveira

5th April 2016, 23:33

Yes, and won a stage ;)

Andre Oliveira

6th April 2016, 20:25

153

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CfYTopEUIAA5q47.jpg

NoFear85

6th April 2016, 22:19

Tamara Molinaro?

Andre Oliveira

6th April 2016, 22:29

Yes :)

Mirek

7th April 2016, 23:51

This video is not new but haven't found it before. It's onboard footage of Pontus Tidemand from Rally China. The first Fabia R5 onboard with telemetry data I have seen:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfbSmb8CeAc

8th April 2016, 12:32

this can be fixed with software.

Solely? Because of the new pop-off valve?

dimviii

8th April 2016, 13:02

Solely? Because of the new pop-off valve?

yep, these two in conjuction.

8th April 2016, 13:06

yep, these two in conjuction.

It will be interesting to see the results of that. But no changes to the transmission? That also seems like a weak link on the PSA cars.

Jarek Z

10th April 2016, 18:29

There was a lot of critisism of Peugeot 208 T16 here. We saw all the failures of this car in the ERC and other championships. I think on the last weekend it also didn't manage to finish Circuit of Ireland Rally. But... let's take a look at the results of Sanremo Rally from the last weekend:

1. Paolo Andreucci/Anna Andreussi (I) Peugeot 208 T16 1:46.31,1
2. Alessandro Perico/Mauro Turati (I) Peugeot 208 T16 +1.39,5
3. Simone Campedelli/Danilo Fappani (I) Peugeot 208 T16 +3.06,0

If it is such a bad car, how is this possible? :)

http://www.autoklub.pl/media/201604/94182-ucci.jpg

Andre Oliveira

10th April 2016, 19:46

Andreucci is the best and all the others had problems?

marcosg

10th April 2016, 20:05

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrRzSInXC7g

Škoda motorsport test (Jan Kopecký) 8.4. 2016

Mirek

10th April 2016, 20:39

yep, these two in conjuction.

PSA uses a lot different engine configuration than others, particularly the PSA engine is 1.6 already in series whereas others use bigger blocks with shortened stroke. As a result both Fabia and Fiesta have very similar bore/stroke ratio as their WRC counterparts with fully purpose-built units (that tells me that they have near-optimal configuration). PSA engine has a lot longer stroke but in the same time less robust smaller engine block.

Anyway I don't know why longer stroke of PSA means that the car has big peak power but lacks torque but it is like that. Maybe Br21 knows as he has experience with all of them.

stefanvv

10th April 2016, 21:02

Anyway I don't know why longer stroke of PSA means that the car has big peak power but lacks torque but it is like that. Maybe Br21 knows as he has experience with all of them.

could it be as simple as physics? as ridiculous it may sounds physics is simple....

Mirek

10th April 2016, 22:34

If it's simple than tell me why?

Simple logic says it shall be exactly opposite.

itix

10th April 2016, 23:28

If it's simple than tell me why?

Simple logic says it shall be exactly opposite.
I agree with that, but physics with engines aren't always easy.

With a larger bore you also get a larger surface for the pressure to act on (F = p * a) and even if the crank radius will be less that may lead to more torque (t = f * r).

If you look at others designs though, high revving motorcycle engines with a lot of peak power and little torque traditionally has a large bore to stroke ratio, and diesels with a horrible peak power but good torque curve has a large stroke to bore ratio.

...then of course when you add turbo chargers etc you mess up engine physics very easily so I honestly can't say which way it would go on a rally car.

Also, something I still haven't managed to figure out since my physics lessons is that torque is supposed to be t = (n/60) * p (engine speed times power), so why is it that high speed engines gives little torque, and the torquiest engines in the world are diesels and the damn 18th century v8's that the Americans love so much(both of which don't Rev much more than 6 000 rpm...)?

I'm confused and my job involves engines... So yeah.

Mirek

11th April 2016, 11:10

Exactly, that's why I asked. Why high-rpm Fabia S2000 has extremely long stroke but Fabia R5 or Polo WRC have very short stroke etc.

BV92

11th April 2016, 12:27

Exactly, that's why I asked. Why high-rpm Fabia S2000 has extremely long stroke but Fabia R5 or Polo WRC have very short stroke etc.

Completely agree mate, especially about the Fabia R8. In fact I agree so much have a biscuit from me

BV92

11th April 2016, 12:27

Let me know if you enjoyed the biscuit

dimviii

11th April 2016, 14:47

Exactly, that's why I asked. Why high-rpm Fabia S2000 has extremely long stroke but Fabia R5 or Polo WRC have very short stroke etc.

as itix said a long stroke will help the power at upper part of rpms, and a short stroke the has advantage at mid part of rpms. Thats a general rule.
An other example is the long stroke mitsubishi evo vs the short stroke subaru.Mitsubishi always had more powerfull engines.

Mirek

11th April 2016, 17:29

dimviii

11th April 2016, 18:28

Then I still don't get it :)

You said long stroke for peak power, short stroke for middle rpm (torque) but...

Evo IX gr.N has relatively low rpm, the dyno charts I saw had often peak power at 4000-4500 rpm, huge torque and near constant power for several thousand rpm.

Μirek i mean evo vs subi .I compare two engines with same restrictor with different bore/stroke ratio. Of course evo will have at lower rpms top horsepower due to restrictor,but still higher than a short stroke engine.

S2000 engine as a naturally aspirated one has peak power at very high rpm but Fabia with by far longest stroke of all S2000 had possibly the highest torque and also the largest power bent of all S2000. Why?
Both engines are counterparts, both have long stroke and both are the most powerful in their category despite both having very different characteristic.

Because the long rod is not the only reason.There are other reasons too.
Example....last years fiesta r5 was underpowered.With this year evo is almost same as other powerfull r5 cars.Some times is how good work has done each team.
Another example is with psa r5 torque.Last year not so good,this year much better.
Also dont forget that at last years Psa hadnt put much progress at 207,when skoda was working harder and more proffesional.
Fiesta was far away as you know from psa/skoda bhp/torque,and we didnt see from Msport any significant evolution for power increase all these years(s 2000 fiesta)

Then we have current WRC cars which use short stroke (Fabia R5 too). These are specially designed race engines unlike the previous two. On the other hand production-based Mini WRC or PSA R5 engines with long stroke suffer from not enough torque.

Why do the WRC look like they completely contradict what can be seen in Evo IX or Fabia S2000 (the illusion is that both for gr.N and S2000 engine the long stroke wins but with WRC it's exactly opposite)?

each wrc manufacture make their choice.This choice is not always free of cost or block availability from manufacture.Except that we dont know if mini wrc has 30-40 Nm less from wrc ds3 for example.
An other reason is that with wrc ''strong'' antilag there is no problem with enoygh power at low-mid revs.So maybe you can have a compromise with a longer stroke to make the engine breath better at high revs.
Another reason is that each engine can 'breath'' differently from another engine.Better flow at head ports , with better matched cams,much more flow from exhaust ports/manifold.
So if you have a long stroke engine but not excellent flow inside and outside from engine,there can be another engine with shorter stroke with better power band at high revs.
or another manufacture has better software(dont underestimate that,huge gains/losses/engine bangs/reliability from that)
These are points that they are not open free outside.

Coach 2

11th April 2016, 19:23

dimviii

11th April 2016, 19:35

I think maybe we should talk about what is to long stroke, and what is to short (over and under quadratic).
VW and Hyundai kit car had to reduced stroke length from 93 to 90 to avoid too many meters per second on the piston.
I think we can say that a restrictor (how big) in combination with ccm will determine whether power can or must be utilized at different rpms and this determines whether it is best with long or short strokes.
This must surely be the difference between Sub and Mitsu gr N.
Am I wrong?

no yoy are not wrong. There are too much parameters that each one,reacts differently with each other.Each small detail counts.
About subi vs evo there are more reasons why evo breaths better at high revs except the long stroke.There are difference due to boxer engine design(longer manifolds-bad for spooling,waste of thermal energy to turbocharger=solved with smaller/faster reacting turbo=problems at high revs)

Coach 2

11th April 2016, 20:15

I agree with that, but physics with engines aren't always easy.

With a larger bore you also get a larger surface for the pressure to act on (F = p * a) and even if the crank radius will be less that may lead to more torque (t = f * r).

If you look at others designs though, high revving motorcycle engines with a lot of peak power and little torque traditionally has a large bore to stroke ratio, and diesels with a horrible peak power but good torque curve has a large stroke to bore ratio.

Both the length and weight of the crankshaft (force times arm length) and weight and size of the flywheel must affect torque, or?
For a motorcycle where you want a rapidly accelerating engine much weight will be negative. Nor should we move a lot of weight, no need of torque.

Explosion velocity of a gas made of diesel fuel is lower than one made of gasoline. This will only be exploited if the stroke is long (relatively speaking) or?
And this will give more torque or?

...then of course when you add turbo chargers etc you mess up engine physics very easily so I honestly can't say which way it would go on a rally car.

Also, something I still haven't managed to figure out since my physics lessons is that torque is supposed to be t = (n/60) * p (engine speed times power), so why is it that high speed engines gives little torque, and the torquiest engines in the world are diesels and the damn 18th century v8's that the Americans love so much(both of which don't Rev much more than 6 000 rpm...)?

I'm confused and my job involves engines... So yeah.

I thought I understand some of this until I read everything written here, but now I'm very unsure.

Jarek Z

11th April 2016, 20:19

According to this article Mellors Elliot Motorsport, the British company responsible for the project of Proton Satria Neo S2000, is going to build Proton R5. Premiere in 2017:
http://www.rallye-magazin.de/int/nachrichten/artikel/d/2016/04/11/proton-der-naechste-r5-hersteller/

Coach 2

11th April 2016, 20:27

Excuse itix that it looks like you wrote this.
My comments (besides what it says at the bottom) are sections that beginns with "Both the length" and "Explosion velcity" in the middle of the clip.

11th April 2016, 20:37

Mirek

11th April 2016, 22:15

Munkvy

12th April 2016, 04:39

Coach 2: Fabia S2000 has 92,2 mm stroke. At 8500 rpm it means higher piston speed than F1 engines. Quite insane for an engine with steel rods I think. Polo WRC has only 73,8 mm stroke.

Dimvii: Thanks, I'm aware that there are many things to count with but still I find it interesting that there is no universal formula. Also we shall not forget that often the choice starts with stock configuration which isn't driven by same needs as racing use.

It's not really even playing fields to compare an NA unrestricted 2L motor to a 1.6L, inlet restricted restricted motor though. Airflow works completely differently for those two motors. Same with having things like anti-lag as well.

Coach 2

13th April 2016, 13:14

I think neither Mirek or I meant to compare DNA with turbo Munkvy, but the discussion revolves around whether short or long stroke provides the most torque.

I was not aware that NA Skoda had 92.2 mm Mirek, but it is so both Super 1600 and S 2000 rpm limit of 8500, or?
92,2mm * 8500 gives piston speed of about 26 m per sec. It is very fast and above what was previously thought was the limit for piston speed (25 m per sec).
But kitcar had not 8500 as limit, and if we take 93mm * and forexample 9,000 rpm, this will give the piston speed of about 28 m per sec.

Mirek

13th April 2016, 13:28

TWRC

13th April 2016, 15:17

Yes, 92,2 at 8500 rpm for Fabia S2000. That's why I mentioned it as it's unusual configuration for such type of engine.

I just checked Peugeot 306 Maxi and the sources say it had stroke 86 mm. I don't know the rpm limiter but most of the sources say the peak power was at 11000 rpm. 86 mm at 11000 rpm means the piston speed 31,5 m/s. Can it be real?
There was an interview with Bútor before Eger, and he said his Evo II Maxi was 300 Hp, with peak power at 8600/min, but the gearchange light flashes at 9700. I believe the factory/Evo III spec Maxis and the Xsaras had 311 Hp, but don't know the characteristics.

Fast Eddie WRC

15th April 2016, 14:42

David Bogie’s Škoda Fabia R5 for sale after just 4 events ...

http://www.rallycarsforsale.net/ads/skoda-fabia-r5-7/

Andre Oliveira

15th April 2016, 21:29

No upgrades allowed. Neil Simpson don't change car. New one is to Preston.

EightGear

22nd April 2016, 18:22

Short i20 video:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BEgl17GMmwB/

Is this the first video of the car in motion? It sounds a bit 'tame' like the Fabia.

Andre Oliveira

22nd April 2016, 18:24

Ketomaa testing in italy too

https://scontent-mad1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfl1/v/t1.0-9/13015123_604874156334282_5967622996160698552_n.jpg ?oh=eda6c063b28e56cfb78e4b3f965a088f&oe=57B042B8

22nd April 2016, 19:14

Ketomaa testing in italy too

https://scontent-mad1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfl1/v/t1.0-9/13015123_604874156334282_5967622996160698552_n.jpg ?oh=eda6c063b28e56cfb78e4b3f965a088f&oe=57B042B8

Why use a gravel driver for a tarmac test?

Fast Eddie WRC

22nd April 2016, 20:25

Ketomaa video:

https://youtu.be/fiGE1fvaJeA

Andre Oliveira

22nd April 2016, 20:51

Wednesday he was here at Portugal to help Joaquim Alves. Usually Ketomaa came to help João Barros.

https://scontent-mad1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xlf1/v/t1.0-9/12998637_1609019219422056_60173860565580062_n.jpg? oh=e223caf6f268ca3c072be0bb27271ce8&oe=57B00E2D

dimviii

24th April 2016, 09:06

Abbring testing in Italy asphalt for 3 days

http://planetemarcus.com/wordpress/wp-content/gallery/Test-Days-i20R5-Avril-2016/TestDays_i20R5_0416_2.jpg
http://planetemarcus.com/wordpress/wp-content/gallery/Test-Days-i20R5-Avril-2016/TestDays_i20R5_0416_3.jpg
http://planetemarcus.com/wordpress/wp-content/gallery/Test-Days-i20R5-Avril-2016/TestDays_i20R5_0416_4.jpg
http://planetemarcus.com/wordpress/wp-content/gallery/Test-Days-i20R5-Avril-2016/TestDays_i20R5_0416_5.jpg

http://planetemarcus.com/nouveaux-essais-i20r5-sur-asphalte-avec-abbring/

Fiat-131-Abarth

24th April 2016, 10:09

On this video https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=btIH2JF6Y2g the i20 R5 sounds quite well.

25th April 2016, 18:52

Great livery on Miguel Barbosa's Fabia R5:

http://www.velocidades.pt/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/mbarbosa1-1200x800.jpg

WRCKE

25th April 2016, 21:26

No upgrades allowed. Neil Simpson don't change car. New one is to Preston.
Neil bought an new one

dimviii

27th April 2016, 18:05

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/13055225_10153566789226918_3219215622504806165_o.j pg

EightGear

27th April 2016, 23:11

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160427/1b539681702527d0b90a74185fa71e15.jpg

Could this (rather early announcement & deadline) add fuel to the i20 R5 at Ypres rumours?

Arnold Triyudho Wardono

28th April 2016, 00:42

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160427/1b539681702527d0b90a74185fa71e15.jpg

Could this (rather early announcement & deadline) add fuel to the i20 R5 at Ypres rumours?
Time to download.. :cool:

Sent from my A12 using Tapatalk

EightGear

28th April 2016, 09:45

Hyundai update. 900 km's in 3 days.

https://motorsport.hyundai.com/en/r5/news/view/6230?pageNum=1&listType=all

TWRC

28th April 2016, 20:03

Princen testing with the 208 T16 Evo, very interesting engine bay configuration :D
https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/13083100_1144438842267000_7799599128716257915_n.jp g?oh=2996efbad90c53f4737a9b0a9e698055&oe=57BF9B03&__gda__=1472186684_5a70dda28f383f141490df5b7d97874 7

Jarek Z

28th April 2016, 20:36

Great livery on Miguel Barbosa's Fabia R5

It is a nice looking car indeed:

http://ptjornal.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/MiguelBarbosaCasteloBranco3.jpg

Sulland

30th April 2016, 08:29

Do anyone know what the Evo pack means on the Pug 208?

TWRC

30th April 2016, 09:09

Do anyone know what the Evo pack means on the Pug 208?
This (http://www.peugeotsport-store.com/cms/web/upload/documentation/551/570552a539fde.pdf)

Mirek

30th April 2016, 17:29

Pipo engine and Ricardo transmission for Hyundai R5.

1st May 2016, 15:59

Great weekend for the Fabia R5.. 1-2-3 in the Czech Republic and Belgium, 1-2 in APRC.

TWRC

1st May 2016, 16:41

Great weekend for the Fabia R5.. 1-2-3 in the Czech Republic and Belgium, 1-2 in APRC.
And 1st place in Hungary as well.

Sulland

1st May 2016, 16:57

This (http://www.peugeotsport-store.com/cms/web/upload/documentation/551/570552a539fde.pdf)

Looks like a wide ranging upgrade, will be interessting to see the effects!
we needs the PSA twins to be competitive!

br21

1st May 2016, 20:09

Like Duval, Princen, Bonato showed they are competitive. Also in the past Abbring, Breen, etc they also showed it's pace, just then they had a lot of reliability issues. PSA cars have bad reputation because of those problems (mostly past problems) and I think that's one of the reasons why not many fast drivers use those cars, so also not many good results coming.

Mirek

1st May 2016, 21:10

EightGear

1st May 2016, 21:45

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160501/dbd4f55090b216b2d6132417797872b4.jpg

Seems like that rear spoiler is there to stay after all?

tommeke_B

1st May 2016, 21:51

Demaerschalk, Dilley, Leonard, Scaillet or here Jakeš (the only PSA R5) had all technical problems with the DS3 R5 this weekend. Princen had problems during pre-event test. On the other hand out of 11 Fabias in the same two events none had technical problems. Fiestas were also ok. I wouldn't say that the issues with PSA cars are a matter of the past.

Actually Scaillet retired with broken wheel after hitting the edge of a sidewalk on the first corner of the rally. But you made your point, the PSA R5 cars are still the least reliable of the class... It's a pitty, especially because they're the most spectacular R5 cars. :)

TheFlyingTuga

1st May 2016, 21:56

Demaerschalk, Dilley, Leonard, Scaillet or here Jakeš (the only PSA R5) had all technical problems with the DS3 R5 this weekend. Princen had problems during pre-event test. On the other hand out of 11 Fabias in the same two events none had technical problems. Fiestas were also ok. I wouldn't say that the issues with PSA cars are a matter of the past.

But in last week Rally of Castelo Branco all the Fabia's had problems (and all the same one). Salvi used his Fiesta because the Fabia it's already broken. On the other hand, the DS3 from Fontes seems to be the car to beat!

Mirek

1st May 2016, 22:08

But in last week Rally of Castelo Branco all the Fabia's had problems (and all the same one). Salvi used his Fiesta because the Fabia it's already broken. On the other hand, the DS3 from Fontes seems to be the car to beat!

What kind of problem was that?

Andre Oliveira

1st May 2016, 22:52

Low turbo oil pressure. It looks problem with new engine map. Skoda had it in tests in Fafe too. Maybe they reverted to Sumava.

mousti

1st May 2016, 23:20

Princen was the first one to do a rally with it, sadly after 4 stages it was already done when he rolled on SS4. On SS3 he took the scratch. Gilbert will be the second one to drive with it on his DS3 at Portugal.

denkimi

1st May 2016, 23:53

This (http://www.peugeotsport-store.com/cms/web/upload/documentation/551/570552a539fde.pdf)

20.000€ for a new servo-pump, a new radiator + intercooler, and a new icu seems a bit expensive too me. if that is all they could do its hardly an update, let alone a new version.

Ucci

2nd May 2016, 10:12

Great weekend for the Fabia R5.. 1-2-3 in the Czech Republic and Belgium, 1-2 in APRC.
No forget the impressive victory of Luca Rossetti at rally Taro in Italy. Behind him a lot's of WRC cars...

Jarek Z

2nd May 2016, 12:02

Short summary of Hyundai R5 tests in Italy:
https://www.fiaerc.com/erc-alumni-continue-development-of-hyundai-challenger/

Jarek Z

2nd May 2016, 12:09

No forget the impressive victory of Luca Rossetti at rally Taro in Italy. Behind him a lot's of WRC cars...

Yes, a great victory for Rossetti. Results and some videos can be found here:
http://rajdy.autoklub.pl/news/rossetti-pokonal-wrc,67706

2nd May 2016, 15:47

No forget the impressive victory of Luca Rossetti at rally Taro in Italy. Behind him a lot's of WRC cars...

Thanks, I didn't know about this.

Would be great to see Luca on some ERC events with the Fabia!

Rally Power

3rd May 2016, 00:52

20.000€ for a new servo-pump, a new radiator + intercooler, and a new icu seems a bit expensive too me. if that is all they could do its hardly an update, let alone a new version.

Welcome to R5 overpriced world!

polo10

3rd May 2016, 12:26

Miguel Campos did not suffer from that problem,only the other 2 Fabia and Salvi that took the Fiesta for the rally.Miguel only did not used the ALS in the maximum because he heard the problems from the others...
But in last week Rally of Castelo Branco all the Fabia's had problems (and all the same one). Salvi used his Fiesta because the Fabia it's already broken. On the other hand, the DS3 from Fontes seems to be the car to beat!

TheFlyingTuga

3rd May 2016, 12:45

Miguel Campos did not suffer from that problem,only the other 2 Fabia and Salvi that took the Fiesta for the rally.Miguel only did not used the ALS in the maximum because he heard the problems from the others...
Thanks for the info. I probably guessed that it was the same for everyone. Hope they solve it quickly... Meireles should be fast because he has shown some form in the past. Hopefuly he will have better luck in Marinha grande this year

polo10

3rd May 2016, 21:05

Kakakakakak flying tuga...tomorrow they will try to solve t problem ;-)...before marinha grande is Azores...
Thanks for the info. I probably guessed that it was the same for everyone. Hope they solve it quickly... Meireles should be fast because he has shown some form in the past. Hopefuly he will have better luck in Marinha grande this year

TheFlyingTuga

3rd May 2016, 22:51

Kakakakakak flying tuga...tomorrow they will try to solve t problem ;-)...before marinha grande is Azores...

Yeah, but that's the blue Fiesta land ;).

(P.S - Sorry for the offtopic guys)

EightGear

4th May 2016, 12:54

https://youtu.be/xnN19X6_2dc

i20 on gravel this week.

Mirek

4th May 2016, 13:09

Nice sound but no notable anti-lag again.

Andre Oliveira

12th May 2016, 01:01

Luís Miguel Rego, chassis 159, debut at Azores Airlines Rally

https://scontent-mad1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/13178860_471022806423511_2334949694819112874_n.jpg ?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&oh=d059b733fdd8bf28fbd3a07d2ae7ed50&oe=579E59C3

Mirek

21st May 2016, 13:50

How come that Princen with 208 T16 Evo is in fact a lot slower than normally (currently running Sezoensrally)? It's not a question of one or two bad stages, he is slow constantly.

mousti

21st May 2016, 14:32

How come that Princen with 208 T16 Evo is in fact a lot slower than normally (currently running Sezoensrally)? It's not a question of one or two bad stages, he is slow constantly.
Indeed.. Maybe tommeke knows more. Princen was almost whole rally last year faster than Loix. Loix more faster than last year is quite obvious because last year was with the Fabia S2000, now with R5 but Princen his times are way too slow even losing from Vincent. And the strategy this weekend was full attack after their crash in Wallonie..

br21

22nd May 2016, 18:31

As it was pretty war it;s highly possible they had pop-off issues and needed to drive with softer ECU map.

Mirek

23rd May 2016, 08:41

As it was pretty war it;s highly possible they had pop-off issues and needed to drive with softer ECU map.

I thought the issue was solved with the new pop-off valves, wasn't it?

TWRC

23rd May 2016, 08:49

I thought the issue was solved with the new pop-off valves, wasn't it?
Janika had problems with the popoff this weekend as well, and he was using the Evo 208 too. They changed the popoff at the end of day service (Rolf Schmidt was in action too!), and after that they were OK on that front (or they didn't say anything about it).

mousti

23rd May 2016, 08:50

I thought the issue was solved with the new pop-off valves, wasn't it?

We all thought that, and it was even that "warm". But I think br21's crew suffered from pop-off issues too..

br21

23rd May 2016, 21:15

It's better with new pop-off, but still not good. To change it it's not a problem as it takes some 5mins including sealing, but it's not helping, as the problem is the heat around the valve in engine bay, not the pop-off itself

dimviii

23rd May 2016, 21:20

Mirek

23rd May 2016, 21:52

Is it still plastic? Do You know which material exactly?

br21

23rd May 2016, 21:57

now it's combination of plastic and some kind of other material - aluminium? Not sure exactly as I didn't open new spec - manufacturer says they will examine all which seems to be faulty, so I'm sending them back to UK.

Mirek

23rd May 2016, 22:19

Thanks. I'm asking because I work with plastics and there is a really reasonable change of dimensions with temperature. Normally alluminium prolongs with the temperature approximattely twice more than steel but plastics around 10x more than steel.

dimviii

24th May 2016, 13:44

http://forum-rallye.com/uploads/monthly_05_2016/post-177-0-44259800-1464091756.jpg

Fast Eddie WRC

24th May 2016, 16:10

Watched the latest Irish Tarmac round last night and the DS3 R5 of Keith Cronin was again having all kinds of problems...

His chances in the Irish and British series is being ruined by that car. :(

satnav

24th May 2016, 17:13

Watched the latest Irish Tarmac round last night and the DS3 R5 of Keith Cronin was again having all kinds of problems...

His chances in the Irish and British series is being ruined by that car. :(

Keith uses his own car in the ITRC , the car that Keith used on the first round of the BRC was the car Craig used to win the Circuit. It would seem that his problems all started when he damaged the car on the circuit but the ITRC is best 5 out of 7 rounds to count with the last round in Cork having bonus points as well so that series is far from sorted , as for the Mid Wales stages he just had a bad run which after all was his first run on gravel in a fair while and he opted for Killarney instead of the Pirelli so he's sort of gave up on the BRC anyway.

Mirek

24th May 2016, 21:28

The ever discussed Fabia strut:

http://www.ewrc.cz/images/2016/photos/vodafone_rally_de_portugal_2016/mn_065.jpg

TWRC

25th May 2016, 18:02

The 208 T16 Evo's front end (minus the airbox. Also, the new intercooler is remarkably big compared to the old one:
https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/t31.0-8/13235120_778122645622054_1229242204517605662_o.jpg

Andre Oliveira

25th May 2016, 20:32

It is a new car? chassis number unknown ;)

PLuto

25th May 2016, 21:01

With renting teams it is very difficult to have correct chassis numbers. Especially when chassis number is not always fixed so registration plate...

TWRC

25th May 2016, 21:29

It is a new car? chassis number unknown ;)
There are loose infos about how many cars they have. There were reports that they bought 3 new cars prior to the season (2 complete, 1 in loose parts). This is certainly new as they sold the oldest one to GB, but I don't know if KN S 085 is a new car with old plate or it is still C#30. TRT used to switch the Slovakian plates around on their cars back in the day (I think a plate that belonged to a 207 S2000 one year was used on his ex-works Evo 6.5 the next year). So there might still be a chassis we haven't seen, who knows...

Co-driven

25th May 2016, 22:41

I am sorry, but it is legal to change plates between cars?

Over here, each plate belongs to a specific chassis, no way of putting it on another car.

dimviii

25th May 2016, 22:59

at some countries i think is legal if you declarate at state(uk)

Sulland

25th May 2016, 23:19

This (http://www.peugeotsport-store.com/cms/web/upload/documentation/551/570552a539fde.pdf)

Has much real life testing taken place on the Twins before the Evo kit went for sale?

PLuto

25th May 2016, 23:42

Also for race on highest level (WRC/ERC), you need to have golden passport. And in this golden passport is important VIN number and number of chassis. So nobody is interested in registration plate. Thats why it is almost impossible to be correct with the cars in databases, because one registration plate can be used on different cars. And some teams are doing it (officially, but mostly unofficially)... I remember situatio from S2000 era, when one plate was driving on three different races (so also cars) during one weekend...

Mirek

26th May 2016, 00:22

I am sorry, but it is legal to change plates between cars?

Over here, each plate belongs to a specific chassis, no way of putting it on another car.

at some countries i think is legal if you declarate at state(uk)

Yes, it's legal somewhere. If I recall Belgium allows number plates registered only by the owner not by the car. Here in CZ it's also possible but not for rally cars. In my work we have such plates for test cars as well (I work in automotive R&D).

mousti

26th May 2016, 06:20

Yes, it's legal somewhere. If I recall Belgium allows number plates registered only by the owner not by the car. Here in CZ it's also possible but not for rally cars. In my work we have such plates for test cars as well (I work in automotive R&D).

Yes indeed in Belgium is the plate registered by owner in France in rallies it's without plates but with number of the seeding they got in the rally they drive.

Andre Oliveira

26th May 2016, 17:10

Yes. Many "italians jobs" in 207 S2000. Anyway we allready have some things with Fiesta R5, but thanks a good team, we have 99,5% right :)

Mirek

26th May 2016, 17:17

How do You know that You have everything right?

Andre Oliveira

26th May 2016, 23:09

Sources are the best :) we only have an issue with H-Racing cars. We work hard to have all right. Thanks god, many teams contact us and like have it right to later sell the cars.

Mirek

26th May 2016, 23:33

You are way too optimistic. At least in S2000 cars there used to be many mistakes but it's been a long time a go since I haven't followed any chassis numbers anymore therefore I can't remember details. I'm also sure than even God himself can not make a correct database of Peugeot 207 S2000.

Sardalense

27th May 2016, 00:53

I gave up following chassis numbers, its just impossible to make a correct database, so I just o focus on the reg plates just for curiosity because even reg plates are not reliable. During last weekend's Rally of Portugal we had two cars with the same reg plate lol Forget rollcage numbers, chassis numbers, VIN numbers, they are all useless. Ewrc have a lot of mistakes in WRC cars because they dont go to service parks to check the cars, because the correct information (but even so not 100% realiable information) is all there and they wait for someone to avoid the work, but sometimes all that they read and copy are not 100% correct... For example, the MINIs... What counts? The VIN numbers or the rollcage numbers? Sometimes both numbers dont match and then we have a problem!!

Andre Oliveira

28th May 2016, 14:04

Last Fiesta R5 (164) to Pieter Tsjoen. His Focus WRC 05 (EO03 XYG) goes to museaum of M-Sport.

https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13331073_1766499476937985_3405175278730001412_n.jp g?oh=9f260862c21cec29ec5763d8e473ea25&oe=57D77F45
https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13245426_1766499423604657_8698121980538115893_n.jp g?oh=b2b44d5b023c5e75a078396729948a5b&oe=57E1EB44
https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13327451_1766499473604652_5404607137260621548_n.jp g?oh=c6c8bbe29343178eaaa71e8b9c5e224a&oe=57C2007E

Photos of Tim Van Parijs

Simmi

31st May 2016, 16:53

Looks like R5s will remain the top class of the ERC despite rumours about accepting old WRC cars.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/124585/erc-chief-wrc2-switch-hurting-skoda-peugeot

Mirek

31st May 2016, 16:56

That would be a really silly idea...

aykutbilir

31st May 2016, 17:25

ERC is going to die soon because of no attaraction media and sponsors. Famous and legendary rallies has very little funds poorly.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Mirek

31st May 2016, 17:30

ERC is going to die soon because of no attaraction media and sponsors. Famous and legendary rallies has very little funds poorly.

It's not going to die as it has a lot more regular competitors than it used to have in the past. There are no factory teams except M-Sport Polska and Opel junior team but there is a lot of other regulars. Even in IRC times there were only like 10 regular crews. The number in recent seasons is a lot higher, around 30 regular crews. Also remember how poor the championship was 5-10 years before and it still survived. it was a lot worse than now.

Jarek Z

1st June 2016, 15:03

Hyundai Motor Espana team ordered the new i20 R5 and are going to use it in the Spanish championship next year. Until then they are using Hyundai i30 Turbo:
https://twitter.com/HyundaiPR_es/status/737725181213433857

Jarek Z

1st June 2016, 15:09

Another failure in the PSA camp. Francois Delecour withdrew from Rallye du Chablais after electrical problem in his Citroen DS3 R5 already on the second stage.

Another success in the Ford camp. Rallye du Chablais was won by Sébastien Carron in his Ford Fiesta R5. Second was Ivan Ballinari in another Fiesta R5.

Some videos from Switzerland can be found here:
http://rajdy.autoklub.pl/news/krotki-debiut-w-r5,68403

Andre Oliveira

1st June 2016, 18:29

Chablais was 1-2-3 to M-Sport cars

TWRC

3rd June 2016, 14:10

Bob de Jong has recently picked up a new chassis and the Evo kit from Citroën Racing.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xat1/v/t1.0-9/13327612_1765385160375163_2874350798009916146_n.jp g?oh=e58bda917c832e64a3d495a21ac98016&oe=57DFC3B6&__gda__=1473984190_bf6a64b3c71ddc76ced733fd55c40a5 8

PLuto

3rd June 2016, 21:33

Looks like R5s will remain the top class of the ERC despite rumours about accepting old WRC cars.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/124585/erc-chief-wrc2-switch-hurting-skoda-peugeot

There were NEVER plans to accept "old" WRC cars to ERC. There is agreement between FIA and Eurosport that R5 cars remain the highest class in ERC for few years.

itix

4th June 2016, 22:34

That would be a really silly idea...
For once I disagree with you... There will be loads of virtually unused wrc cars that are only accepted by some ASN's and that's it (unless FIA decides to make a stupid middle class for them basically throwing all the R5 rivalry out the window).

It would be a great opportunity both for wrc privateers (maybe even manus) and the ERC.

And yes of course I know it isn't realistic... But I think it would have been a good solution.

Mirek

4th June 2016, 22:49

I totally disagree, sorry.

What do You think You would achieve?

The guys who actually drive ERC would have to buy WRC cars to be able to compete with old WRC cars. For God's sake why? Once R5 was established as the main class for anything but WRC and all those people invested into R5 machinery to be able to use it in the regional championships. Now their investments would be in vain and they would need to buy new (in fact old and used) machines which are 2-3x more expensive to run? What is that good for?

How do You think the manufacturers would like the idea that old outdated cars would become a main class in the championship where they currently sell and therefore also promote a lot of new cars? Again why should that be any good?

R5 cars are relatively affordable just like the ERC events are. Still most of the guys struggle to find budget to run the whole season. WRC car costs approximately 2-3x more to run, so the same question again. Why shall it help the championship to introduce hugely expensive cars?

itix

4th June 2016, 23:03

It really wouldn't help anyone to have them just sit around to be used by no one... That's for sure so if not the ERC, maybe the TER then.

We are seeing a steady decline of competitors in the ERC and I believe this trend will continue unfortunately.

I agree that it certainly wouldn't help those currently participating but I think it would help the series as a whole.

itix

4th June 2016, 23:05

... Or maybe I'm wrong and all focus would be on the new world rally cars an the series would trip on its own costs.

Still, I don't like to see the old cars just go to waste. A looot of time and effort has been put into them.

Also they look heaps better than the - 17 cars we have seen so far.

stefanvv

4th June 2016, 23:54

How many current wrc cars You think there are out there, not many Polos I guess....

itix

5th June 2016, 23:26

The Polios were probably one chassis from Start to finish so yeah... Probably only the five something cars that vw built. Plenty of DS3 and Fiestas though.

stefanvv

5th June 2016, 23:32

The Polios were probably one chassis from Start to finish so yeah... Probably only the five something cars that vw built. Plenty of DS3 and Fiestas though.

Probably mostly Fiestas, that would be almost 1 make cup, Wilson will be happy.

pantealex

6th June 2016, 08:48

ERC2 has about 5 entries/event and as you all know it´s for GrN Mitsu/Subaru. How many those type of cars there are in europe?

Some of you really think that old WRC will be huge success? RRC is same car than WRC and there were never more than 3 of them in ERC.

Jarek Z

24th June 2016, 22:31

Hyundai i20 R5 is to be homologated in September this year:
https://www.fiaerc.com/hyundai-aim-to-homologate-i20-r5-for-september/

Andre Oliveira

25th June 2016, 00:05

According Autosport PT:

Hyundai plans to R5:
15 this year
35 in 2017
30 in 2018

Barreis

25th June 2016, 12:58

http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/124966

Fast Eddie WRC

30th June 2016, 16:09

Skoda Fabia R5 BLACK EDITION for Rally Bohemia... :cool:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CmNOeWzWQAAKFNb.jpg:large

http://planetemarcus.com/wordpress/wp-content/gallery/Skoda-Fabia-R5-Black-Edition-2016/FabiaR5_black_2.jpg

liposh

30th June 2016, 18:47

For those who are interested in this livery, check the "czech rally news" thread, where Mirek has explained the reasons of this livery.

Simmi

6th July 2016, 20:35

Hyundai i20 R5 is to be homologated in September this year:
https://www.fiaerc.com/hyundai-aim-to-homologate-i20-r5-for-september/

It looks like this might have been pushed back a few weeks. Nandan is quoted in Motorsport News today as saying they will homologate in October.

He said they've had between 10-15 enquiries for the car.

19th July 2016, 22:11

We were talking in the Estonia thread about gearbox ratios and came to the conclusion that Fiesta's engine was not torquey enough to use the longer gearbox on sandy stages..

But the Skoda has only one gearbox with an even higher top speed than the Fiesta.. so does the Skoda still have the better engine or are they running a sub-optimal gearbox too?

br21

20th July 2016, 22:27

Skoda has engine with more torque than Fiesta

skarderud

21st July 2016, 12:20

The dytko proto mirage has a Mitsubishi evo driveline and engine, what's the difference between this and the swedish mirage R5 with Mitsubishi evo driveline and engine?
Isn't this close to the same consept?

And anything news on International homologation on the mirage R5?

Mirek

21st July 2016, 12:37

OldF

21st July 2016, 13:05

Skoda has engine with more torque than Fiesta

How big is the difference?

21st July 2016, 16:05

Skoda has engine with more torque than Fiesta

I still only saw it get up to about 180 in Estonia, although it was still pulling whereas the Fiestas seemed to be running out of puff at about 165-170.

itix

21st July 2016, 17:34

Is the Proto car 1.6T? Isn't it still 2.0 like Evo?

Also You can't use active center diff from Evo in the R5, in fact You can't use any diff there. It's more things and I am pretty sure that R5 car doesn't use the Evo drivetrain.
The Evo doesn't have an active center diff (if we are talking about the road car... If it's the rally car I would agree with you).

Mirek

21st July 2016, 17:48

If I am not mistaken the Evo X road car has two active diffs - central (ACD) and rear (AYC). Front is I think Torsen mechanical one.

Rallyper

21st July 2016, 19:20

If I am not mistaken the Evo X road car has two active diffs - central (ACD) and rear (AYC). Front is I think Torsen mechanical one.

Dimviii knows, I´m sure.

dimviii

21st July 2016, 19:55

Dimviii knows, I´m sure.

its exactly as Mirek described for a road car.A road evo(gsr versions) has active center and rear diff,and a torsen front .At grN evos you keep the center active diff but you change the rear and the front with a plated one.
grN evos are from ''rs'' edition evos.
rs editions from factory have torsen at front,active rear,and a plated rear which they replace for a stronger ralliart plated diff,as at front diff.

itix

21st July 2016, 21:03

its exactly as Mirek described for a road car.A road evo(gsr versions) has active center and rear diff,and a torsen front .At grN evos you keep the center active diff but you change the rear and the front with a plated one.
grN evos are from ''rs'' edition evos.
rs editions from factory have torsen at front,active rear,and a plated rear which they replace for a stronger ralliart plated diff,as at front diff.

Are you sure?

I am like 95 percent sure that the Evos 3 through 9 does not have a center diff. They have a transverse layout with the engine feeding the front diff which then sends power backwards to the rear diff and sideways to the front wheels...

And yeah I think it was from Evo 4 or 5 that they started with torsen diffs front...

I know this because I've looked into the Evos pretty heavily. I want to one day in the future convert a small hatchback to a permanent 4wd car that can handle a bit of power (no haldex nonsense) and the engine and transmission spin the right way and has the right layout for the Evo 3 through 9.

Have I missed something in the drive line. I've looked at so many drawings and photos (but not taken it apart myself yet tbh) that I should have seen a center diff by now.

skarderud

21st July 2016, 21:09

Is the engine in the mirage R5 a 2ltr evo engine, "shortstroked" to 1,6?
I think i read something on the drivetrain once that it was based on evo, but maybe i mix with something.

dimviii

21st July 2016, 21:41

Are you sure?

I am like 95 percent sure that the Evos 3 through 9 does not have a center diff. They have a transverse layout with the engine feeding the front diff which then sends power backwards to the rear diff and sideways to the front wheels...

And yeah I think it was from Evo 4 or 5 that they started with torsen diffs front...

I know this because I've looked into the Evos pretty heavily. I want to one day in the future convert a small hatchback to a permanent 4wd car that can handle a bit of power (no haldex nonsense) and the engine and transmission spin the right way and has the right layout for the Evo 3 through 9.

Have I missed something in the drive line. I've looked at so many drawings and photos (but not taken it apart myself yet tbh) that I should have seen a center diff by now.

no always had a center diff.

dimviii

21st July 2016, 21:45

Is the engine in the mirage R5 a 2ltr evo engine, "shortstroked" to 1,6?
.

i think i had read that is an evo X destroked engine.

Mirek

21st July 2016, 22:01

no always had a center diff.

I think active center since Evo VII and active rear since Evo IX?

dimviii

21st July 2016, 22:14

I think active center since Evo VII and active rear since Evo IX?

active rear from evo 4 to evo X
active center from evo 7 to evo X

Munkvy

21st July 2016, 22:20

They most definitely have an active centre diff. Google it...

http://www.evolutionm.net/forums/evo-engine-turbo-drivetrain/175195-acd-article-answers-everybody.html

http://www.coordsport.com/blog/2012/04/mitsubishi-lancer-evolution-limited-slip-diffs-lsd-recommendations/

Andre Oliveira

21st July 2016, 23:09

The Mitsubishi R5 features a 1620cc engine based on the Mitsubishi 4B11 engine from the Evolution X. It is connected to a five-speed Sadev transmission and four-wheel-drive system of the type homologated for use in the R5 category and fitted to all other R5 rally cars.

Engine:
4-cyl, 16v, transverse 1620cc.
Garrett turbo with 32mm restrictor
Gems ECU

Power/Torque:
280 hp (approx) @ 7500rpm
450 Nm (approx) @ 7500rpm

Transmission:
Sadev 5-speed sequential
Mechanical diff front & rear with AP coupling

Suspension:
MacPherson strut, all-round
Öhlins dampers
Docal subframes

Brakes:
AP 4-pot front & rear
Ventilated disks: asphalt 355mm / Gravel & Snow 300mm

Wheels:
Asphalt: 18 x 8'' / Gravel: 15 x 7" / Snow: 16 x 5"

Dimensions:
Length: 3740mm
Width: 1820mm
Height: 1490mm (depending on set up)
Wheelbase: 2470mm
Weight: 1230kgs (min)

http://mitsubishir5.com/technical.html

itix

21st July 2016, 23:34

OldF

23rd July 2016, 19:49

Did you notice that in the third post of the evolution.net link have a link to a pdf which describe the drivetrain. In the most right text box on the upper part say that evo 3 and 4 had a viscous coupling and from evo 5 an active one.

http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&jsonp=vglnk_146929928672713&key=c77acd7091c1b445713bbb00d750d167&libId=iqzitosz01000b29000DAiawwyzdm&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.evolutionm.net%2Fforums%2Fevo-engine-turbo-drivetrain%2F175195-acd-article-answers-everybody.html&v=1&out=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.evolutionm.net%2Fattachmen t.php%3Fattachmentid%3D70736&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.motorsportforums.com%2Fshowth read.php%3F28327-R5-News%2Fpage397&title=ACD%20Article%20-%20Answers%20for%20everybody!%20-%20evolutionm.net&txt=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.evolutionm.net%2Fattachmen t.php%3Fattachmentid%3D70736%20

Here’s a link to AYC document about the development.
http://media.cylex-uk.co.uk/companies/1320/2483/uploadedfiles/13202483_634522861850200344_super_AYC_spec.pdf

I have also (February 2008) downloaded an document of the development of the ACD but I couldn’t find it on internet anymore.

Steve Boyd

25th July 2016, 16:54

Power/Torque:
280 hp (approx) @ 7500rpm
450 Nm (approx) @ 7500rpmThose figures cannot be right. 450 Nm @ 7500 rpm equals approximately 474 hp. The torque figure quoted must be at a much lower engine speed.
I suspect some technical illiterate in a marketing department has put maximum power, maximum torque & maximum rpm together on the Mitsubishi R5 web page in a way they were not originally specified.

Mirek

25th July 2016, 17:18

Yes, that's clear nonsense but since the publically presented power and torque figures are never true I doubt many people on this board bother to read them at all :)

Mirek

29th July 2016, 21:07

From Italian thread - Luca Rossetti testing i20 R5 on gravel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBzYig13EWM

dimviii

29th July 2016, 21:37

From Italian thread - Luca Rossetti testing i20 R5 on gravel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBzYig13EWM

maybe Italian hyundai importer has any to do?
dont remember to have read that Rosseti had any connection with Hyundai.

EightGear

30th July 2016, 00:04

Maybe they quickly had to find a replacement for Abbring because he's in Finland now.

aykutbilir

30th July 2016, 04:39

Hyundai marketin department working. They are sending invatations for known drivers to Test i20 R5.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

dimviii

1st August 2016, 13:53

The Hyundai i20 R5 is the object of desire of pilots Championship of Spain. The main protagonists of the National are trying to get a unit of the Korean car for next season. And five of them, Miguel Fuster, Ivan Ares, Pedro Burgo, Surhayen Pernia and Manuel Mora, they will try tomorrow and in France.

Hyundai Motorsport has organized a test for potential customers on a stretch of asphalt in Chamberlain. The new i20 R5 will be marketed after the summer, and the international demand have decided to mount this test attended by five Spanish. The car debuted at Ypres Rally European Championship with Kevin Abbring driving as VIP car, and it seems that their times were very encouraging, as they dominated the first stage (there was no official lap times when a car caravan security) .

And not just the Spanish riders are interested in the new Hyundai i20 R5. There are several teams that are vying to make it run at the National asphalt. This is the case of Auto Laca (the formation of Angel Ramos with several national titles), All Racing Sport (which currently does run the Opel), Past Racing (the team of Daniel Alonso, who wants to buy two units), ACSM or equipment Ivan Ares. Vallejo Racing also has groped the possibility of switching to Hyundai.

http://motor.as.com/motor/2016/08/01/mas_motor/1470031790_422485.html?id_externo_rsoc=comp_tw

dimviii

1st August 2016, 20:40

Łukasz Pieniążek ‏@pieniazekrally

I can’t wait! #Hyundai #R5 #test

Jarek Z

1st August 2016, 22:24

And not just the Spanish riders are interested in the new Hyundai i20 R5.

I'm afraid you are right. Lukasz Pieniazek is going to test Hyundai i20 R5 in Metz very soon.

dimviii

2nd August 2016, 15:37

http://forum-rallye.com/uploads/monthly_08_2016/post-177-0-07815700-1470134596.jpg

dimviii

2nd August 2016, 17:28

Pieniazek and Abbring .At Frech forum they wrote that tomorrow Princen will drive.
http://forum-rallye.com/uploads/monthly_08_2016/post-177-0-76218500-1470151466.jpg

mousti

2nd August 2016, 19:16

Pieniazek and Abbring .At Frech forum they wrote that tomorrow Princen will drive.
http://forum-rallye.com/uploads/monthly_08_2016/post-177-0-76218500-1470151466.jpg

He was there already today

dimviii

3rd August 2016, 19:43

https://scontent-bru2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13891853_10208934158545607_3587679759459495354_n.j pg?oh=bce7874c1ffe2e69d2166fecbdbe0f3d&oe=5810E8E9

Jarek Z

3rd August 2016, 20:46

Isn't it the good old Patrick Snijers? :)

kiil

8th August 2016, 11:17

More info on the Hyundai R5 http://www.autocar.co.uk/blogs/motorsport/inside-new-hyundai-i20-r5-rally-programme

8th August 2016, 16:53

More info on the Hyundai R5 http://www.autocar.co.uk/blogs/motorsport/inside-new-hyundai-i20-r5-rally-programme

Higher torque on the R5... fantasy?

Mirek

8th August 2016, 17:49

Oh yes, this statement is pretty much nonsensical in every possible way and it shows that the author doesn't know much about what he's writting. He just coppies some BS presented by some other guys with no knowledge about the stuff (PR department).

The result is an output of 285bhp compared to 300bhp for the WRC car but there’s an increase in torque from 295lb ft in the WRC car to 310lb ft in the R5. That should improve flexibility slightly and make the R5 easier to drive.

Rally Power

9th August 2016, 14:39

More info on the Hyundai R5 http://www.autocar.co.uk/blogs/motorsport/inside-new-hyundai-i20-r5-rally-programme

It seems a bit low, but if that €180.000 price indication it's correct it'll certainly have a strong impact on R5's market.

Pedro Burgo, one of the spanish drivers invited to test the i20, said it has a better engine than the 208's he use to drive.

Btw, PSA R5's did well in Madeira. I don't know if Fontes (Sports & You DS) is already using the Evo kit, but Camacho had one on his 208 Delta rented car. He earlier complained about the steering, but after some setup adjustments he was more at ease and managed to get on the win fight with Magalhaes (Fiesta Evo from P&B Racing) and Fontes.

TWRC

9th August 2016, 15:10

It seems a bit low, but if that €180.000 price indication it's correct it'll certainly have a strong impact on R5's market.

Pedro Burgo, one of the spanish drivers invited to test the i20, said it has a better engine than the 208's he use to drive.

Btw, PSA R5's did well in Madeira. I don't know if Fontes (Sports & You DS) is already using the Evo kit, but Camacho had one on his 208 Delta rented car. He earlier complained about the steering, but after some setup adjustments he was more at ease and managed to get on the win fight with Magalhaes (Fiesta Evo from P&B Racing) and Fontes.
Fontes used Evo kit. Major giveaway is that the radiator and intercooler are tilted backwards, whereas on the old version they are tilted forward. Also, on the Evo DS3 the air intake opening is removed from the front bumber's emblem area, and now it's in an identical layout to the 208.

br21

9th August 2016, 16:12

Fontes used Evo kit. Major giveaway is that the radiator and intercooler are tilted backwards, whereas on the old version they are tilted forward. Also, on the Evo DS3 the air intake opening is removed from the front bumber's emblem area, and now it's in an identical layout to the 208.

Biggest difference is size of radiator and intercooler, angle of their mounting is not that much different, also intake area is very similar, as bumper is exactly the same. On fast stages it's not that big difference in temperatures, it makes difference on slow and twisty stages, with high temps.

dimviii

9th August 2016, 17:21

Kalle Rovanpera test with r5 skoda in Finland.Think we havent see it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMXU3wruZxM

Andre Oliveira

9th August 2016, 17:55

It seems a bit low, but if that €180.000 price indication it's correct it'll certainly have a strong impact on R5's market.

Pedro Burgo, one of the spanish drivers invited to test the i20, said it has a better engine than the 208's he use to drive.

Btw, PSA R5's did well in Madeira. I don't know if Fontes (Sports & You DS) is already using the Evo kit, but Camacho had one on his 208 Delta rented car. He earlier complained about the steering, but after some setup adjustments he was more at ease and managed to get on the win fight with Magalhaes (Fiesta Evo from P&B Racing) and Fontes.

Fiesta R5 of P&B only have mechanical EVO, old chassis.

Andre Oliveira

9th August 2016, 17:58

Hyundai i20 R5 -> 180.000€ + 25.000€ gravel kit
Ford Fiesta R5 -> 183.600€ + 20.500€ gravel kit

Jarek Z

9th August 2016, 18:12

br21

9th August 2016, 19:13

there is no brand new factory R5 car to buy for 180k euros. All the cars, in tarmac OR gravel spec cost over 210k euros.
Also Fiesta Evo is same body as older version. Only "evo" changes are engine plus some small suspension parts difference (stronger than older spec) plus rear spoiler mounting modification, etc.

Andre Oliveira

9th August 2016, 19:24

Info of M-Sport that prize.

Second, there is EVO of chassis after L Racing unit (first one).

9th August 2016, 20:06

Kalle Rovanpera test with r5 skoda in Finland.Think we havent see it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMXU3wruZxM

When is Kalle old enough to drive international events? Skoda might need one or two new drivers next year..

Jarek Z

9th August 2016, 20:13

Skoda might need one or two new drivers next year..

Why do they need new drivers?

br21

9th August 2016, 20:24

Info of M-Sport that prize.

Second, there is EVO of chassis after L Racing unit (first one).

We bought 3 cars from them, I know the price:)

9th August 2016, 20:27

Why do they need new drivers?

With more WRC seats becoming available it looks likely they will lose at least one of Lappi and Tidemand.

Andre Oliveira

9th August 2016, 23:25

With the current £ value?

TWRC

10th August 2016, 10:35

There was an interview with János Tóth and his codriver, Tamás Szőke, in which they touched on why they had many problems this year, especially on gravel: http://motorsport.reblog.hu/visszaterhet-e-a-csucsra-a-hetszeres-bajnok-ifj-toth-janos (http://motorsport.reblog.hu/visszaterhet-e-a-csucsra-a-hetszeres-bajnok-ifj-toth-janos)

Tóth said that the 208 T16 is interesting to drive on gravel, especially on low-grip surfaces, as it tends to oversteer even with low speed, but when the grip is good/high, it becomes much easier to drive.
Szőke was very critical, saying that Peugeot Sport cares too much about the Dakar program, and in the meantime the R5 gets very limited attention, and is falling behind the competition in WRC and ERC as well.

Fast Eddie WRC

10th August 2016, 18:28

New face-lift version of Mitsubishi Mirage R5 is going to make its debut in the Ulster Rally. Garry Jennings will be driving the car and the event takes place on 19th & 20th August:
http://spencersport.co.uk/spencer-sport-confirms-garry-jennings-will-drive-mitsubishi-mirage-on-ulster-rally/

That is interesting...

Jennings being a very quick and experienced driver of the Irish Tarmac Championship should be an ideal pilot to show how good the Mirage is on the asphalt.

The only issue against him is he is still driving an Impreza WRC in the ITC so wont be used to an R5 car...