Where would we be as a species if we quit any endeavor where someone died ?

[ChicagocrewIRL]

I am so angry and mad at all the hand wringing and mea culpa "it's too dangerous for us to do" crap that i have been reading in the media and on these message boards. Everything we do in life is inherently dangerous, some things more than others. But it's the human will to push the limits and pioneering spirit that keeps us going forward as a species. It's what keeps us reaching towards the boundaries of human capability. The sacrifices of those that went before us are not lost on us. There is a reason and purpose for everything that happens. But if we shrink from any endeavor where we lose a human life, we are doomed. Dan Wheldon knew this. Greg Moore knew this. Dale Earnhardt Sr. knew this. Marco Simoncelli knew this. We mourn their loss, but we keep going forward.

[BDunnell]

I am so angry and mad at all the hand wringing and mea culpa "it's too dangerous for us to do" crap that i have been reading in the media and on these message boards. Everything we do in life is inherently dangerous, some things more than others. But it's the human will to push the limits and pioneering spirit that keeps us going forward as a species. It's what keeps us reaching towards the boundaries of human capability. The sacrifices of those that went before us are not lost on us. There is a reason and purpose for everything that happens. But if we shrink from any endeavor where we lose a human life, we are doomed. Dan Wheldon knew this. Greg Moore knew this. Dale Earnhardt Sr. knew this. Marco Simoncelli knew this. We mourn their loss, but we keep going forward.

I think it's a very fair and pertinent question, though I would never suggest that anyone killed while being involved in a sport somehow lost their life participating in a noble endeavour.

[ChicagocrewIRL]

I think it's a very fair and pertinent question, though I would never suggest that anyone killed while being involved in a sport somehow lost their life participating in a noble endeavour.

Every sport whether it's auto racing or marathon running or triathlon or even a 90 minute up and down the field soccer game is a test of human ability and limits. I guess it all depends on your concept of "noble." Tell anyone that participates in sport that it's not noble. I dare you.

[garyshell]

I am so angry and mad at all the hand wringing and mea culpa "it's too dangerous for us to do" crap that i have been reading in the media and on these message boards.

I don't think that most folks on these mesage boards are saying: "it's too dangerous for us to do". I think they ARE saying "it's too dangerous for us to do it they way we have been doing it." Even the drivers are saying that. We and they want CHANGES to it, not an end to it.

Gary

[BDunnell]

Every sport whether it's auto racing or marathon running or triathlon or even a 90 minute up and down the field soccer game is a test of human ability and limits. I guess it all depends on your concept of "noble." Tell anyone that participates in sport that it's not noble. I dare you.

I would apply the word 'noble' to other activities than sport, personally. The fact of sport being a test of human ability and limits I don't doubt, but nor do I agree that it warrants the use of a word like 'noble'.

[FIAT1]

I agree with most of it, and it is very easy to forget how safe racing has become until this happens. I'm sick and tired of these internet experts who don't have a clue obout racing or engineering and they play self importance after the fact and write and talk rubbish. I'm fan of single seater formula cars of any series ,Im a fan of inovation,speed and danger that comes with that, therefore, for the good of the sport some self serving elements in racing arena should shut up and stop the critic ,because we build better and faster cars,planes,trains etc and is never safe and never will be.

[BDunnell]

And, in truth, no activity can ever be completely safe.

[numanoid]

It's just part of the human condition. Too many people make knee jerk reactions after a crisis without doing a lot of analysis. This is why we have the TSA and why we can no longer bring liquids onto planes and why we have to take our shoes off.

[ChicagocrewIRL]

I don't think that most folks on these mesage boards are saying: "it's too dangerous for us to do". I think they ARE saying "it's too dangerous for us to do it they way we have been doing it." Even the drivers are saying that. We and they want CHANGES to it, not an end to it.

Gary

I have seen more than one or two threads saying "I am done with IndyCar" "I am done with IndyCar ovals" blah blah blah. I have seen Jimmy Johnson spout off about how IndyCar shouldn't run on high speed ovals blah blah blah and I am sick of it. I'm waiting for the clamor on the MotoGP boards to ban curves on road races because they are too dangerous. Or have them enclose MotoGP riders in a plastic bubble so they don't get hurt . Where will this end ??? Like I said in my post, we have to use these unfortunate incidents and accidents to keep moving forward not shrink into some dark hole where everything is safe and cozy... and static.

[Bob Riebe]

I don't think that most folks on these mesage boards are saying: "it's too dangerous for us to do". I think they ARE saying "it's too dangerous for us to do it they way we have been doing it." Even the drivers are saying that. We and they want CHANGES to it, not an end to it.

GaryI don't think that most folks on these mesage boards are saying: "it's too dangerous for us to do". They are say -- it is too dangerous because I won't do it and it should be changed-- your statement that follows the paste says exactly the same as the paste no matter what " that depends on the meaning of the word is" type scam you try to float.
If the drivers are truly concerned, go some where else or do something else.

They are paid extremely well for what they do, and noble is not part of the equation. Actually due to the amount they are paid nowadays, brave may have been replaced by greed. Chasing the almighty dollar.

[Bob Riebe]

I have seen more than one or two threads saying "I am done with IndyCar" "I am done with IndyCar ovals" blah blah blah.
I always think, fine, go watch something else. If this causes one grievous mental stress, they are not fit enough to watch it.

[BDunnell]

They are paid extremely well for what they do, and noble is not part of the equation. Actually due to the amount they are paid nowadays, brave may have been replaced by greed. Chasing the almighty dollar.

I'm not sure money would be the motivation behind anyone deciding to go motor racing, unless they are extremely misguided — after all, chances to become a paid professional driver are so few and far between. And no matter whether money becomes a motivating factor thereafter, one cannot doubt the bravery of anyone who drives in formulae such as F1 or Indycars, given the speeds involved if nothing else.

[Nikki Katz]

I know that no activity will ever be safe, and I'm not quitting IndyCar, but for the casual viewer there are plenty of safer sports out there. Ignoring the personal tragedy (I was a bit of a Dan fan and still really upset over this), losing a former champion in this way is terrible PR at a point where there is probably a worldwide recession looming, IndyCar seems to have difficulty getting races on the calendar, and the new car means that the grid size is a little more insecure than previously.

I'll stick around, heck I watched ChampCar on life support for years, but I think a lot of people may turn off following this incident.

[garyshell]

I don't think that most folks on these mesage boards are saying: "it's too dangerous for us to do". I think they ARE saying "it's too dangerous for us to do it they way we have been doing it." Even the drivers are saying that. We and they want CHANGES to it, not an end to it.

Gary


I have seen more than one or two threads saying "I am done with IndyCar" "I am done with IndyCar ovals" blah blah blah. I have seen Jimmy Johnson spout off about how IndyCar shouldn't run on high speed ovals blah blah blah and I am sick of it. I'm waiting for the clamor on the MotoGP boards to ban curves on road races because they are too dangerous. Or have them enclose MotoGP riders in a plastic bubble so they don't get hurt . Where will this end ??? Like I said in my post, we have to use these unfortunate incidents and accidents to keep moving forward not shrink into some dark hole where everything is safe and cozy... and static.

Please note the word "MOST" in my reply to you. Yes, there are a couple of folks here who responded as you indicated. (BTW, Jimmie did backtrack, after the fact, on his original comment.) Don't get me wrong, I share your disdain for all the self appointed "experts" who think it's too dangerous. And I think Jimme should have kept his mouth shut. I loved Sarah Fisher's quote on the subject that Jimmie has never been in and Indycar so he doesn't know what he is talking about.

Gary

[garyshell]

If the drivers are truly concerned, go some where else or do something else.

Really, so the drivers should not suggest that changes need to be made in the amount of downforce, the amount of horsepower and rules to eliminate the possibility of full throttle all the way around an oval? They should just suck it up or go home? I would love to see you walk into the meeting that occured in Indy today and watch you stand up and say that to the faces of the drivers. Somehow, I think your dentist would be in a new tax bracket.

Gary

[SoCalPVguy]

I am not "quitting" indycar racing - but this one hurt and I need a break.

[Bob Riebe]

Really, so the drivers should not suggest that changes need to be made in the amount of downforce, the amount of horsepower and rules to eliminate the possibility of full throttle all the way around an oval? They should just suck it up or go home? I would love to see you walk into the meeting that occured in Indy today and watch you stand up and say that to the faces of the drivers. Somehow, I think your dentist would be in a new tax bracket.

GaryIF they are truly concerned and do not show up for a race, the sanction will get the message.

If they show up, doing nothing more than grumbling, which race drivers I have spoken to do very often, they are not truly very concerned.

If you have read much racing history, drivers voting with their feet, has been the most effective way to get changes that drivers actually are serious about.

[garyshell]

IF they are truly concerned and do not show up for a race, the sanction will get the message.

If they show up, doing nothing more than grumbling, which race drivers I have spoken to do very often, they are not truly very concerned.

If you have read much racing history, drivers voting with their feet, has been the most effective way to get changes that drivers actually are serious about.

So now it's shut up or strike. No discussion or negotiations first? That's ridiculous.

Gary

[BDunnell]

IF they are truly concerned and do not show up for a race, the sanction will get the message.

If they show up, doing nothing more than grumbling, which race drivers I have spoken to do very often, they are not truly very concerned.

If you have read much racing history, drivers voting with their feet, has been the most effective way to get changes that drivers actually are serious about.

I wouldn't have thought that you, politically, are someone in favour of unilateral strike action.

[Bob Riebe]

So now it's shut up or strike. No discussion or negotiations first? That's ridiculous.

Gary

LOL, negotiations, LOL.
Racing is not a democracy, it is less a sport nowadays, and not even a very good way to sell cars anymore.

The current sadly pathetic politicis of automobile racing is major item tha is putting it into the crapper.

It is a dictatorship, if one does not perform, or meet standards, one will get a pink slip or be told to leave.
If one does not like the set-up, LEAVE, go somewhere else.

IF THE DRIVERS ARE CONCERNED, they can avoid the tracks they are concerned about. It may not work, as Bill France showed with Talladega early on when they did not show up because it was too fast, he told them the gas pedal goes both ways, but it will get a point across and show ones words are not a lot of hot air.
The fearful should not be driving as they are dangerous and should do what Jackie Steward did when it got to be too much and quit, the whiners, let them whine. If they are too busy cashing pay checks to make serious noise BEFORE a race then they do not really care much and just like to hear themselves.
Coulda., woulda, shoulda is the cry of fools, yet as the old saying goes-- be careful what you ask for, you may actually get it.

[BDunnell]

The fearful should not be driving as they are dangerous and should do what Jackie Steward did when it got to be too much and quit, the whiners, let them whine.

It is rather simplistic to suggest that Jackie Stewart quit simply because motor racing had become too dangerous. Of course, he is, however, an excellent example of someone who did get things done to improve safety — even though it made him hugely unpopular in some quarters. He was right, they were wrong. The enlightened ones amongst his opponents, such as Jacky Ickx, came to realise that.

[anthonyvop]

The fearful should not be driving as they are dangerous and should do what Jackie Steward did when it got to be too much and quit,

Jackie Stewart retired because of Gastric Ulcers.

[Nem14]

Immediately after such an incident many succumb to knee jerk suggestions born more out of emotion than careful and considered thought.

[Bob Riebe]

Jackie Stewart retired because of Gastric Ulcers.Stewart had serious ulcers the year before but did not retire because of them.

One article on his life says
," he is quoted as saying online at Formula One Art & Genius. "It gave you amazing satisfaction, but anyone who says he loved it is either a liar or wasn't going fast enough."

With one of the reasons he said he retired was because he was burnt out. He never drove the last race of the seventy three season because of the death of his team mate.

When doing something causes more negatives than positives in one's line of thought it is time to move on and he did.

[BDunnell]

Jackie Stewart retired because of Gastric Ulcers.

He suffered from the ulcers in 1972, and I have never heard of him offering this in any way as a reason behind his retirement a year later.

[beachbum]

Anyone who has every raced knows racing is dangerous. It also requires a total, all consuming commitment to be successful. Some racers are forced to retire because of health, injury, finances, or lack of opportunities, but many choose to walk away. That usually happens when they can't justify the extreme effort based on the risk / reward. That was my case, and the same situation for a number of friends in racing.

[Rollo]

The fearful should not be driving as they are dangerous and should do what Jackie Steward did when it got to be too much and quit,

So what you are in effect saying is that Darwinism should take over? Drivers who quit are wusses and those who die deserve to because of their actions?

Then again, you have a trivial view of life anyway as evidenced by your own actions on the road.

[BDunnell]

So what you are in effect saying is that Darwinism should take over? Drivers who quit are wusses and those who die deserve to because of their actions?

I agreed with Nigel Roebuck when, in narrating a BBC documentary years ago, he spoke of how Niki Lauda's decision to retire from the 1976 Japanese GP made him, in the eyes of some, 'the bravest man in the place'. Bravery comes in different forms, after all.

[Bob Riebe]

So what you are in effect saying is that Darwinism should take over? Drivers who quit are wusses and those who die deserve to because of their actions?
Well--no, but you did.

[Mark in Oshawa]

I agreed with Nigel Roebuck when, in narrating a BBC documentary years ago, he spoke of how Niki Lauda's decision to retire from the 1976 Japanese GP made him, in the eyes of some, 'the bravest man in the place'. Bravery comes in different forms, after all.

Bravery is in the fact he came back...all the way back...

[BDunnell]

Bravery is in the fact he came back...all the way back...

That too, but not just that, surely?

[bugeyedgomer]

I am so angry and mad at all the hand wringing and mea culpa "it's too dangerous for us to do" crap that i have been reading in the media and on these message boards. Everything we do in life is inherently dangerous, some things more than others. But it's the human will to push the limits and pioneering spirit that keeps us going forward as a species. It's what keeps us reaching towards the boundaries of human capability. The sacrifices of those that went before us are not lost on us. There is a reason and purpose for everything that happens. But if we shrink from any endeavor where we lose a human life, we are doomed. Dan Wheldon knew this. Greg Moore knew this. Dale Earnhardt Sr. knew this. Marco Simoncelli knew this. We mourn their loss, but we keep going forward.

strap yourself into one of those deathwagons punk

[Chris R]

Jackie Stewart retired because of Gastric Ulcers.

He retired for myriad reasons - health, safety, money and mostly because he felt it was time to retire for reasons known only to him..... Jackie made the right choice for Jackie and he is to be commended for that.....

[Marbles]

He retired for myriad reasons - health, safety, money and mostly because he felt it was time to retire for reasons known only to him..... Jackie made the right choice for Jackie and he is to be commended for that.....

It's come a long way from the day when Stewart had to be rescued from a fuel filled cockpit by fellow drivers with a borrowed spanner from a spectator and then taken away by an ambulance driver who got lost. It's a shame we can't put an exact number on the drivers that didn't die because of efforts by mavericks such as Stewart. Instead of just having some vague sense of gratitude perhaps there would be greater appreciation for his efforts. I'm still amazed that even to this day many still view him as some sort of whiner.

For a better understanding of the era that Stewart came from checkout: "Grand Prix -- The Killer Years".

In general I believe most tracks are reasonably safe but tempting fate is what happens when you run 34 Indycars at a track like Vegas.

[beachbum]

It's come a long way from the day when Stewart had to be rescued from a fuel filled cockpit by fellow drivers with a borrowed spanner from a spectator and then taken away by an ambulance driver who got lost. It's a shame we can't put an exact number on the drivers that didn't die because of efforts by mavericks such as Stewart. Instead of just having some vague sense of gratitude perhaps there would be greater appreciation for his efforts. I'm still amazed that even to this day many still view him as some sort of whiner.

For a better understanding of the era that Stewart came from checkout: "Grand Prix -- The Killer Years".

In general I believe most tracks are reasonably safe but tempting fate is what happens when you run 34 Indycars at a track like Vegas.
About 20 years ago, I was involved in motorcycle road racing. At one race, our rider was in what appeared to be a serious accident. I followed the ambulace to the hospital which took a half hour meandering around back roads. Luckily, the injuries were not serious, but when we were ready to leave the hospital, we learned it was only about 5 minutes from the track on the same main road. The hospital staff informed us the ambulance was paid by the mile, so they took the "long" way.

In another incident, the rider was taken to a well known hospital near a very well knwon track with another rider who was injured. The hospital "lost" them for hours until one hobbled to a nurses stand for help. The rider were released with "no injuries" only to learn when they got home they had broken ribs, a broken shoulder blade, and had a shoulder separation. This was at a major pro race, and the hospital knew what has going on that weekend, they just didn't care.

That is a certainly good point. If I quit something just because someone died doing it, I would have stopped my involvement in autoerotic asphyxiation years ago!