Button - It's not just about sheer speed, it's whether you can look after the tyres..

[The Black Knight]

Jenson Button, though he has not realised it, has just voiced my concern over the direction F1 has taken this year.

Jenson Button predicts five-stop strategies | Korean Grand Prix | Formula 1 news, live F1 | ESPN F1 (http://en.espnf1.com/korea/motorsport/story/61400.html)

The quicker drivers aren't necessarily the most successful. It has become too much like a game of chess with raw speed no longer being the most important factor. The quickest most consistent driver should win the race, in my opinion, not the one that can crawl around the lap a few tenths slower and limp home in first place.

Button - "It's not just about sheer speed, it's whether you can look after the tyres or not."

Tyre conservation has a place in F1, but is currently occupying a larger piece of the pie than it deserves.

This is to not take anything away from a driver that opts to conserve his tyres and do one less pit stop. My issue is that, even if drivers wanted to go balls to the wall for a race and make an extra pit stop, they do not have the option to do that.

[AndyL]

Tyre conservation has a place in F1, but is currently occupying a larger piece of the pie than it deserves.

This is to not take anything away from a driver that opts to conserve his tyres and do one less pit stop. My issue is that, even if drivers wanted to go balls to the wall for a race and make an extra pit stop, they do not have the option to do that.

Hard to disagree with that. While the Bridgestones were excessively durable, this year's Pirellis have gone too far the other way. With any luck Pirelli's experience from this year will bring next year's tyres closer to a happy medium.

[fandango]

Well, I'm not sure I agree, although I think it's a very good point. Of the front-running drivers it's really Hamilton that's most negatively affected by this situation. That doesn't seem like enough of a reason to change the whole idea again. However, with a driver of Hamilton's raw talent in F1, it's a shame not to see him able to fully demonstrate his speed.

Perhaps the way to balance it is to change qualifying in some way so that drivers can let rip there without it adversely affecting their race. A different set of tyres, perhaps. If Hamilton could get pole with his one-lap speed it could be balanced against his tyre wear issues.

[Robinho]

its funny though, that the last race Button won, he was fastest in every practice session, within a hundreth of pole and set the fastest lap, in a series of about 4 or 5 laps in succession of new fastest laps, no not only did he look after the tyres, and was the most consistent, he was actually the fastest. I really don't think the balance has swung too far. The fastest boys still come out at the front, but thinking your way through a race and looking after the tyres CAN pay dividends, no use having great tyres if your 20 seconds down and in 5th though.

Vettel certainly hasn't won all his races this year by careful tyre management, but by being balls out the fastest man on race day. Thats not to say he hasn't had to take care of tyres, fuel etc at stages of a race, but i prefer that to having supposed "soft" tyres that you can run on pretty much as hard as you like and that can run well over half a race distance with no real problem.

Fast and consistent will still win the day as long as you don't do anything stupid. I honestly don't think drivers are spending long periods driving within themselves and the car at the moment, they just do have to be able to manage the wear as it manifests itself

[The Black Knight]

Well, I'm not sure I agree, although I think it's a very good point. Of the front-running drivers it's really Hamilton that's most negatively affected by this situation. That doesn't seem like enough of a reason to change the whole idea again. However, with a driver of Hamilton's raw talent in F1, it's a shame not to see him able to fully demonstrate his speed.

Perhaps the way to balance it is to change qualifying in some way so that drivers can let rip there without it adversely affecting their race. A different set of tyres, perhaps. If Hamilton could get pole with his one-lap speed it could be balanced against his tyre wear issues.

Well, the qualifying issue is very easy to solve. Simply give all the drivers an extra set of the softer tyres on offer that weekend for qualifying but that they can't use for the race. It's only 40 more tyres per race weekend and isn't going to break the bank. Something definitely does need to be done about qualifying though as it has gone to be a bit of a joke.

I have had discussions with very informative gentlemen on Hamilton's supposed tyre wear. This idea that he is much harder on tyres than the rest of the front runners has some basis but it's not as entirely founded as people might like to think. There have been a few races this year, for example, where Button has struggled with tyre wear and Hamilton hasn't. The idea came to fruition in China 2007 when Hamilton went 33 laps on a set of tyres and ended up in the gravel. It then gathered even more pace in Turkey the following year when Massa got the jump on Hamilton on the line and Hammy ended up doing a three stop to Massa's two with Massa winning the race. A lot of people assumed that Hamilton simply could not have done a two stop because he wears tyres more than anyone else but that is incorrect, he could have done a two stop then, McLaren simply chose the wrong strategy. Anyway, he is harder on tyres overall but not by a huge amount as some people would like to make out but it is affecting him more this year than others for sure.

[The Black Knight]

its funny though, that the last race Button won, he was fastest in every practice session, within a hundreth of pole and set the fastest lap, in a series of about 4 or 5 laps in succession of new fastest laps, no not only did he look after the tyres, and was the most consistent, he was actually the fastest. I really don't think the balance has swung too far. The fastest boys still come out at the front, but thinking your way through a race and looking after the tyres CAN pay dividends, no use having great tyres if your 20 seconds down and in 5th though.
Vettel certainly hasn't won all his races this year by careful tyre management, but by being balls out the fastest man on race day. Thats not to say he hasn't had to take care of tyres, fuel etc at stages of a race, but i prefer that to having supposed "soft" tyres that you can run on pretty much as hard as you like and that can run well over half a race distance with no real problem.
Fast and consistent will still win the day as long as you don't do anything stupid. I honestly don't think drivers are spending long periods driving within themselves and the car at the moment, they just do have to be able to manage the wear as it manifests itself
In Japan Button was the fastest man in all sessions but I'm pretty sure Hamilton had the fastest sector times overall he just never got a chance to put them together until qualifying because of traffic. I'm convinced he would have got pole were it not for the last corner incident. It was a slow puncture and clearly very unbalanced car that cost him in Japan. I remember seeing an onboard from Button at the start of the race when he was behind Hamilton and Hamilton's car just looked awful throughout the corners. It was all over the place. I don't think tyres were the deciding factor here but they certainly played a role.
The RBR has been surprisingly easy on its tyres throughout the whole year which has, along with all his pole positions, helped Vettel to stay ahead at the start of the race. Fast and consistent will always win any race but the guy with the potential to go faster maybe cannot push that much due to tyre degradation and struggling down in 5th :)

[Koz]

Well, the qualifying issue is very easy to solve. Simply give all the drivers an extra set of the softer tyres on offer that weekend for qualifying but that they can't use for the race. It's only 40 more tyres per race weekend and isn't going to break the bank. Something definitely does need to be done about qualifying though as it has gone to be a bit of a joke.

What are you on about?

Drivers have to start on the set of tyres which they used to set the fastest lap in qualifying. So what is the possibly advantage of an extra set which you can't use in a race??
Do you propose getting rid of this rule??

What's worse is you only want the top 10 to get a fresh set of tyres?
Care to explain to me how that would possibly work out in a fair manner?


The issue at hand is that Pirelli (at the FIA's request) made crap tyres, which don't last at all. The prime tyres, especially, are the biggest joke because they don't add much, if anything at all, in terms of durability, it just slows the cars down.

If the primes did their job, all of this would be a non issue.

The rest of that post contradicts itself.

[The Black Knight]

What are you on about?
Drivers have to start on the set of tyres which they used to set the fastest lap in qualifying. So what is the possibly advantage of an extra set which you can't use in a race??
Do you propose getting rid of this rule??
What's worse is you only want the top 10 to get a fresh set of tyres?
Care to explain to me how that would possibly work out in a fair manner?

The issue at hand is that Pirelli (at the FIA's request) made crap tyres, which don't last at all. The prime tyres, especially, are the biggest joke because they don't add much, if anything at all, in terms of durability, it just slows the cars down.
If the primes did their job, all of this would be a non issue.
The rest of that post contradicts itself.
The rule could stay the same. The drivers can use the set they set the fastest lap time on and the other set can be disposed of. It's fairly straight forward. The extra set of tyres in qualifying means the drivers do two runs in Q3.
There is nothing contradictory in the rest of my post at all. You might want to reread it a little more carefully.

[wedge]

its funny though, that the last race Button won, he was fastest in every practice session, within a hundreth of pole and set the fastest lap, in a series of about 4 or 5 laps in succession of new fastest laps, no not only did he look after the tyres, and was the most consistent, he was actually the fastest. I really don't think the balance has swung too far. The fastest boys still come out at the front, but thinking your way through a race and looking after the tyres CAN pay dividends, no use having great tyres if your 20 seconds down and in 5th though.

Vettel certainly hasn't won all his races this year by careful tyre management, but by being balls out the fastest man on race day. Thats not to say he hasn't had to take care of tyres, fuel etc at stages of a race, but i prefer that to having supposed "soft" tyres that you can run on pretty much as hard as you like and that can run well over half a race distance with no real problem.

Fast and consistent will still win the day as long as you don't do anything stupid. I honestly don't think drivers are spending long periods driving within themselves and the car at the moment, they just do have to be able to manage the wear as it manifests itself

Agreed.

If the OP was correct we'd have seen more wins from Alonso.

[Firstgear]

Well, the qualifying issue is very easy to solve. Simply give all the drivers an extra set of the softer tyres on offer that weekend for qualifying but that they can't use for the race. It's only 40 more tyres per race weekend and isn't going to break the bank. Something definitely does need to be done about qualifying though as it has gone to be a bit of a joke.
I agree that there is an issue with qualifying. When some cars don't even put in a lap in Q3 because they are too concerned about tyre wear, something needs to be done.
I have a different solution than yours though. With F1 being a meritocracy, I propose the following: Reward the drivers with an extra set of tyres (that they can use for qualifying or the race) for advancing to the next round of qualifying. They'll be doing more laps, so they should get more rubber.

Example1: In Q1, Hamilton sets his fastest lap on the harder tyre and advances to Q2, so he is rewarded with an extra set of the harder tyre. In Q2 he sets his fastest lap on the softer tyre and advances to Q3, so he is also rewarded with an extra set of the softs.

Example2: In Q1, Massa sets his fastest lap on the harder tyre and advances to Q2, so he is rewarded with an extra set of the harder tyre. In Q2 he sets his fastest lap on the softer tyre but fails to advance to Q3, so he is not rewarded with an extra set of softs.

Am I a genius, or an idiot? Poll please :p :.

[The Black Knight]

I agree that there is an issue with qualifying. When some cars don't even put in a lap in Q3 because they are too concerned about tyre wear, something needs to be done.
I have a different solution than yours though. With F1 being a meritocracy, I propose the following: Reward the drivers with an extra set of tyres (that they can use for qualifying or the race) for advancing to the next round of qualifying. They'll be doing more laps, so they should get more rubber.

Example1: In Q1, Hamilton sets his fastest lap on the harder tyre and advances to Q2, so he is rewarded with an extra set of the harder tyre. In Q2 he sets his fastest lap on the softer tyre and advances to Q3, so he is also rewarded with an extra set of the softs.

Example2: In Q1, Massa sets his fastest lap on the harder tyre and advances to Q2, so he is rewarded with an extra set of the harder tyre. In Q2 he sets his fastest lap on the softer tyre but fails to advance to Q3, so he is not rewarded with an extra set of softs.

Am I a genius, or an idiot? Poll please :p :.

My way only means 40 extra tyres per race. Yours means a lot more though. It seems kind of wasteful.

[Firstgear]

40 extra tyres. That's one set each, for 10 cars.
So you're only giving the cars that make it to Q3 an additional set? Ok, I missed that somewhere.
Sounds good to me then. The way I read your post initially, I thought you were just giving everyone an additional set.