IS there a too little downforce?

[Mad_Hatter]

Is there a such thing as too little downforce for any of the ovals? Why not run the superspeedway aero on all ovals to create lifting in the corners? Is it because that would cause speeds to rise out of the rule-makers' comfort zones on the straights? I've never really considered it to be honest, but braking/lifting in the corners seems to be what many people say is missing from the current formula...

[Rollo]

What would be achieved by having lift on a race car? Downforce is primarily concerned with making more efficient use of the power coming out of the engines and improving grip and handling. The compromise is that downforce causes drag, which slows cars down. Lift would also cause drag through.

[call_me_andrew]

What would be achieved by having lift on a race car? Downforce is primarily concerned with making more efficient use of the power coming out of the engines and improving grip and handling. The compromise is that downforce causes drag, which slows cars down. Lift would also cause drag through.

No one is suggesting that the cars should produce aerodynamic lift. It's simply a matter of "should they produce less downforce?"

[SarahFan]

Rollo...

I think the original post isn't suggesting the car have aero-lift in the corners ..... He's saying take away downforce so the drivers have to "lift" their foot off the gas pedal thru the corners

[chuck34]

Interesting idea. I'd like to see it tried. Hoop seems to have the aero number, maybe he can do a quick sim for us. Or if he (or anyone else) gives me L/D numbers for the different kits, I can probably come up with something.

[chuck34]

And to be a technical geek about it all ... Downforce and lift are the exact same thing. It's just that downforce has a negative sign, and lift has a positive sign. :D

[ShiftingGears]

No such thing as too little downforce - if you pumped another 300hp into the 60's Indycars (ala Lotus 38) they'd still stick to the road. The drivers would just have to modulate the throttle more. Or use brakes.

I've been a fan of having a high power to grip ratio for quite some time, (I feel that CCWS could've tried something more radical in that regard). I definitely feel that something should be done about the ovals. Either create a car that is safer to allow higher straight line speeds, or reduce the cornering speeds.

Not having enough power compared to grip is why this current indycar is so hated.

[wedge]

I think it will need and perhaps significant R&D.

CART tried at Nazareth by running superspeedway wings. Cars were spinning off the track and the racing was horrendous. It was never tried again IIRC.

[wedge]

Either create a car that is safer to allow higher straight line speeds, or reduce the cornering speeds.

Even with PTP I hate rev limiters.

[garyshell]

I think it will need and perhaps significant R&D.

CART tried at Nazareth by running superspeedway wings. Cars were spinning off the track and the racing was horrendous. It was never tried again IIRC.

"One race, does not an experiment make."

All that really proved was the drivers needed more practice so they could learn how to modulate the throttle more and improve their technique.

I have been screaming for years that aero is NOT our friend. To me it is the single biggest problem with CCWS and now IndyCar. To the trained and more importantly the untrained eye (i.e. Joe and Jane Doe in the stands) it has effectively taken the driver out of the picture and made them a passenger in the car. I agree that the power to grip ratio needs to be DRAMATICALLY swung in the opposite direction, with the an increase in the hardness of the tire compound. (Although I realize the latter might have negative results in marbles on the track.)

I think the last time I saw a driver in AOWR who was throwing the car into corners tails out and fighting to keep it on the track was Montoya. He was a MASTER at that and it made for exciting racing. The fans would whoop it up and cheer whenever he did it. In their eyes he was DRIVING the damn car, and they were right. To those fans, it elevated him to the stature of someone with extraordinary abilities. Not like Danica who just rides around in the car for x laps... boooooring. We need MORE real honest to god drivers and the only way we will get that is make it so the drivers HAVE to drive the car. We have to eliminate the option of riding around all day with the right foot firmly planted to the floorboard.

My $.02

Gary

[Chris R]

I agree on harder tires- tell them only 2 sets per race or something - the F1 races with no tire changes aded a really interesting dynamic that rewarded fast but smooth drivers..... either that or change the dynamic of pitstops - slow them down so changing tires carries a much harsher time penalty.....

I think the thing we need to keep in mind is that you need a more forgiving suspension to go with less downforce - or you are going to have lots of snap spins.... the bottom line is less downforce means slower cars overall - just make sure that is a trade off you are happy with... I am......

[Mad_Hatter]

So decreased downforce(ie superspeedway aero) and series mandated harder tires are the answer to the more driver-focused oval show...?