2012 Silly Season - WRC

[Sulland]

Who will drive for what team in 2012 ?

[Plan9]

Mini- Sordo, Meeke, Oliveria, Arujo & another customer
Ford- Mikko & Latvala
Citroen- Loeb & Ogier
VW- Petter, Juho, Andreas & another

[Sulland]

After the hints at the post press conference, it might look like this:

Citroën:
* Loeb
* P. Solberg

Ford:
* Latvala
* Tanak/ Ostberg / Ogier

Mini:
* Sordo
* Meeke

VW 1:
* Ogier
* Hanninen

VW 2:
* Gassner Jr
* Mikkelsen/ Ostberg

[Barreis]

But VW doesn't have WRC car in 2012.

[alleskids]

Ogier will not spend 2012 outside the WRC, no way, he would be better of acting as shadowman of Loeb for 2 years before becoming the lead Citroen driver. If he leaves Citroen, it will be for Ford

Visit Qatar Citroen Total WRT: Loeb, P Solberg, Al Attiyah
Abu Dhabi Tourimse Ford WRT: Latvalla, Ogier, Al Qassimi
No sponsors needed Mini WRT: Sordo, Meeke
Wings for Life VW: Hirvonen, Hanninen + youngsters
Custumors Mini: Oliveria, Arujo
Custumers Citroen: Van Merksteijn, Novikov
Custumors Ford: Kuiper, H Solberg, Wislon, Block, Villagra, Prokop, Tanak

[tolis]

No Mikko?

[N.O.T]

Citroen :Merkestein and Loeb
Ford :Ogier and Kuipers
Mini :Campana and Snijers
WV : Hanninen and Loix

[User]

Hehe, I would like that NOT

[Francis44]

Citroen WRT: Loeb, Mikko Hirvonnen.
Ford WRT: Ogier, Latvala.
Mini WRT: Sordo, Meeke.

And I guess VW will run some rally's in the end of the year, whenever the car is ready, i'd say with Hanninen.

[bretddog]

Citroen: Loeb, Ogier
Ford: Latvala, Hirvonen
Mini: Sordo, Meeke
Private: P.Solberg (Citroen)
VW: Hanninen

..the boring reality.

[rallyfiend]

No sponsors needed Mini WRT: Sordo, Meeke


From what I hear, Prodrive need to find a sponsor sharpish or there may not be a programme next year at all. They very much run on the model of M-Sport and receive very little direct support from BMW.
Combined with the shambolic Aston Martin prorgramme, all of Prodrive is very much in need of fresh investment.

[AndyRAC]

What happened, I thought they had a sponsor lined up.

[Rallyper]

Citroen: Loeb, Petter
Ford: Ogier, Latvala
Ford no 2 (Stobart): Mikko, Henning
Mini: Sordo, Meeke,
Mini Customer: PG, Araujo,
VW: Juho, Mikkelsen
VW2: Some young talent from Germany, some young woman (talent?)
Customers Citroen: Kuipers, Novikov, Kimi
Customers Ford: Wilson, Block, Villagra, Tanak, Tidemand

[AMSS]

2012
Citroen: Loeb,Hirvonen
Ford : Ogier, Latvala
Mini: Meeke, Sordo
VW: too many to say
2013
Citroen: Loeb Hirvonen
Ford: Ogier,?
mini: Sordo,?
VW: Latvala,?

Next year certain as above(if someone doesn`t believe this than save this and put it on display after everything is confirmed...;-)), and also Latvala to VW 2013 already signed. But for 2013 lots of other open places!

[N.O.T]

what about 2027 ?

[ProRally]

Prokop would run Fiesta WRC with his own team, not part of the M-Sport set up....

[bretddog]

2012
Citroen: Loeb,Hirvonen
Ford : Ogier, Latvala
Mini: Meeke, Sordo
VW: too many to say
2013
Citroen: Loeb Hirvonen
Ford: Ogier,?
mini: Sordo,?
VW: Latvala,?

Next year certain as above(if someone doesn`t believe this than save this and put it on display after everything is confirmed...), and also Latvala to VW 2013 already signed. But for 2013 lots of other open places!

I really hope you are right! This would be an incredibly interesting lineup..

[Roy]

What happened, I thought they had a sponsor lined up.

Mini is sponsored by BP en Castrol. Partners / WRC / MINI Motorsport (http://www.minimotorsport.com/en/wrc/partners)

My seat prediction of 2012

-Citroen Total WRT
Loeb
Ogier

-Ford Abu Dhabi WRT
Latvala
Hirvonen/ Tanak (tarmac)
Al Quassimi

-Mini
Sordo
Meeke

-M-Sport
(all selected rounds)
Tanak
H. Solberg
Wilson
Ketomaa
Räikkönen
Ostberg

-FERM
D Kuipers
R. Kuipers

-Monster
Block

-VW
Hänninen
Weijs/Riedemann/P. Solberg

- van Merksteijn
Peter van Merksteijn jr
Peter van Merksteijn sr
Kevin Abbring

[Doon]

2012
Citroen: Loeb,Hirvonen
Ford : Ogier, Latvala
Mini: Meeke, Sordo
VW: too many to say
2013
Citroen: Loeb Hirvonen
Ford: Ogier,?
mini: Sordo,?
VW: Latvala,?

Next year certain as above(if someone doesn`t believe this than save this and put it on display after everything is confirmed...), and also Latvala to VW 2013 already signed. But for 2013 lots of other open places!

Really, and are you the only person on the planet who knows this? Do you have any links from viable sources to back this up?

[AMSS]

Have some humor! ;)

[bretddog]

Have some humor! ;)
It's not humor to pretend to have inside info. It's pure idiocy. ..oh well, maybe in Finland.

[Roy]

If Hirvonen wins, Citroen drives again with 1&2 on the door? ;)

[AMSS]

It`s not pretending i meant the humor part to save this info.
Mikko has even asked some of his mechanics to join him already for C next year!

[N.O.T]

Mini is sponsored by BP en Castrol. Partners / WRC / MINI Motorsport (http://www.minimotorsport.com/en/wrc/partners)



are these financial partners as well ? i doubt for example that Michelin is sponsorong the mini project in ways other than tyres, and Castrol and BP are partners of the M-sport project...maybe they provide the lubrication products for the car only.

[N.O.T]

It`s not pretending i meant the humor part to save this info.
Mikko has even asked some of his mechanics to join him already for C next year!

So he will join as No2 driver status ? or equal status ?

[AMSS]

If Loeb has as said a contract that grants him no.1 than it`s quit easy to do the math! Also there`s no way i think he could challenge loeb anyway regardless of what says in any contract!

[Motorsportfun]

are these financial partners as well ? i doubt for example that Michelin is sponsorong the mini project in ways other than tyres, and Castrol and BP are partners of the M-sport project...maybe they provide the lubrication products for the car only.

I doubt that such a big space on the car would be dedicated to a simple supplier... I think there's also money in the mix!

[N.O.T]

If Loeb has as said a contract that grants him no.1 than it`s quit easy to do the math! Also there`s no way i think he could challenge loeb anyway regardless of what says in any contract!

well its not about challange...for example if Loeb had No1 status this year Ogier would have dropped behind him in many occasions and he would allow him to win, but he only did that when Loeb was way ahead on points and the main contender for the championship.

The move of Hirvonen to citroen would mean that the Citroen team also will change their policy concerning drivers from now on and they will have a No1 and a No2....so far all these years they had the equal start and the one who gets ahead on points comfortably gets the No1 for the rest of the season.

[Motorsportfun]

Btw, the line-up for 2012 would be like this IMHO

CITROEN: Loeb-Hirvonen
FORD: Latvala-Ogier
MINI: Meeke-Sordo
VOLKSWAGEN: P.Solberg-Hanninen

> Private teams

QATAR: Al-Attiyah
VM-MOTORSPORT: van Merksteijn

STOBART: H.Solberg-Wilson(?)-Ostberg
FERM: Kuipers
MUNCHI'S: Villagra (?)
ABU DHABI: Al Qassimi
MONSTER: Block (?)

BRAZIL WRT: Oliveira-Atkinson (?)
MS ITALIA: Araujo

VW B-TEAM: Gassner Jr-Mikkelsen

[jens]

The strange thing is that if two Sebs really can't fit into one team, why is Citroen preferring the older driver instead of a long-term prospect? A year or so ago there were a lot of guesses that Ogier will send Loeb to retirement and Citroen should be relieved that they have finally got a driver, who can take over the lead role in the team. What happened?

[dimviii]

I doubt that such a big space on the car would be dedicated to a simple supplier... I think there's also money in the mix!

it s not big space,big space was in Ford before some seasons.Now has just the front wings and 4 small stickers at the front/rear bumper.
eWRC.cz - po všech stránkách rally… (http://www.ewrc.cz/ewrc/image_browse.php?id=71415)
eWRC.cz - po všech stránkách rally… (http://www.ewrc.cz/ewrc/image_browse.php?id=71420)

Even if no money included,you can t know how many tons of engine oil,gear-box oils,diff oils,brake fluids,antifreeze coolant,and various sprays(grease spray,penetrating,brake cleaner etc) included in this deal.Don t forget that prodrive serves not only the minis,but plenty subarus track cars etc Surely the amount off lubricants they need is not so small.And all these lubricants/fluids will sold..=money

[N.O.T]

The strange thing is that if two Sebs really can't fit into one team, why is Citroen preferring the older driver instead of a long-term prospect? A year or so ago there were a lot of guesses that Ogier will send Loeb to retirement and Citroen should be relieved that they have finally got a driver, who can take over the lead role in the team. What happened?

the simple answer IF ogier moves is that Loeb is a long term investment for the Citroen team.....Loeb will be used long after he retires for Citroen to advertise cars, test their cars, offer his expertise ects...and Citroen will have bragging right over the best motorsport driver ever until today.

Ogier on the other hand sure has a long future but none can guarantee that his success will make him a legend.

[dimviii]

A year or so ago there were a lot of guesses that Ogier will send Loeb to retirement and Citroen should be relieved that they have finally got a driver, who can take over the lead role in the team. What happened?
Ask Quesnel,surely knows the reason...

[Mirek]

The strange thing is that if two Sebs really can't fit into one team, why is Citroen preferring the older driver instead of a long-term prospect? A year or so ago there were a lot of guesses that Ogier will send Loeb to retirement and Citroen should be relieved that they have finally got a driver, who can take over the lead role in the team. What happened?

AFAIK Quesnel wanted Ogier but PSA bosses didn't want to loose what they were building for years - valuable marketing combination of Loeb and Citroën. Simply they thought that Loeb going to VW would make a big damage to the Citroën public picture. In situation when both drivers are natural leaders and both sides have part of the truth, it must have been very difficult to make the choice...

Maybe there is no long-term future of Citroën in rallying? I can imagine something like a new swap to Peugeot only in horizon of few years...

[bretddog]

The move of Hirvonen to citroen would mean that the Citroen team also will change their policy concerning drivers from now on and they will have a No1 and a No2....so far all these years they had the equal start and the one who gets ahead on points comfortably gets the No1 for the rest of the season.

What a load of BS! We been over this many times and you're about the only one to cling to this misconception. The only time Citroen didn't have No1 driver, since Loeb won his first title, is from mid-2010 to mid-2011, when PSA management stepped in to put things back in order. No wonder you can't find a cure with this one-eyed mindset.

[dimviii]

the simple answer IF ogier moves is that Loeb is a long term investment for the Citroen team.....Loeb will be used long after he retires for Citroen to advertise cars, test their cars, offer his expertise ects...and Citroen will have bragging right over the best motorsport driver ever until today..
Agree,but don t forget that Loeb is not going to be for ages at top level.Time passes for everybody.So they have to find the replacement....and they found him....


Ogier on the other hand sure has a long future but none can guarantee that his success will make him a legend.
NOT the problem for Citroen is not if Ogier take more or less championships than Loeb.Probably they want the replacement of him when he retired.
Another point is that Citroen have invest on Ogier,and this is the reason that i think they are not going to lost him easy.When you have invest in a driver some 2-3 millions you dont give him as a present to another team.The problem is that except money you need a lot of time and luck to create a driver at Loebs/Ogiers level.
All these we hadn t got to talk if Quesnel had do proper his job,and not patronising a rookie against the 7 times champion.

[dimviii]

Maybe there is no long-term future of Citroën in rallying? I can imagine something like a new swap to Peugeot only in horizon of few years...

This is the biggest point which going to decide if they want to keep both,or only Loeb.

[N.O.T]

What a load of BS! We been over this many times and you're about the only one to cling to this misconception. The only time Citroen didn't have No1 driver, since Loeb won his first title, is from mid-2010 to mid-2011, when PSA management stepped in to put things back in order. No wonder you can't find a cure with this one-eyed mindset.

you have any evidence for that ?? because i never saw anyone slowing down for Loeb while he wasn't comfortably ahead of his team mate....

the fact that the team mates of Loeb were not on par with him since he won his first title is another story....

[Motorsportfun]

it s not big space,big space was in Ford before some seasons.Now has just the front wings and 4 small stickers at the front/rear bumper.
eWRC.cz - po všech stránkách rally… (http://www.ewrc.cz/ewrc/image_browse.php?id=71415)
eWRC.cz - po všech stránkách rally… (http://www.ewrc.cz/ewrc/image_browse.php?id=71420)

Even if no money included,you can t know how many tons of engine oil,gear-box oils,diff oils,brake fluids,antifreeze coolant,and various sprays(grease spray,penetrating,brake cleaner etc) included in this deal.Don t forget that prodrive serves not only the minis,but plenty subarus track cars etc Surely the amount off lubricants they need is not so small.And all these lubricants/fluids will sold..=money

I'm talkin about BP Ultimate (which owns Castrol brand).

[Francis44]

There was a story some months ago that Citroen would be in WRC for ten more years if everything went well and the rules suited them, so say what you want but Loeb wont be around for three years, much less ten.

[N.O.T]

970762When you have invest in a driver some 2-3 millions you dont give him as a present to another team.The problem is that except money you need a lot of time and luck to create a driver at Loebs/Ogiers level.
All these we hadn t got to talk if Quesnel had do proper his job,and not patronising a rookie against the 7 times champion.

what makes you think that they will give him as a present....Ogier has a contract up to 2013 with Citroen if he wants to break it legaly he (or his sponsors/manager/ford) will pay them a lot.

And i think that if ogier doesn't want to work for citroen then it doesn't really matter what citroen wants....you cannot have a displeased driver in the team because you are ruined, so if all that Blah Blah rumours we get from finnish and british media are true then Citroen will let Ogier go and just cash in his reputation in Gold.

[N.O.T]

There was a story some months ago that Citroen would be in WRC for ten more years if everything went well and the rules suited them, so say what you want but Loeb wont be around for three years, much less ten.

Teams make up stories like that because its free publicity....but usually the contracts they sign with the FIA have 3-5 years duration.

[Mirek]

There was a story some months ago that Citroen would be in WRC for ten more years if everything went well and the rules suited them, so say what you want but Loeb wont be around for three years, much less ten.

No manufacturer leadership would give its motorsport department a solid ten years long plan for the future. Things don't work like that.

[Francis44]

No manufacturer leadership would give its motorsport department a solid ten years long plan for the future. Things don't work like that.

I believe so, it's impossible to make such a commitement especially seeing how the market is doing today, however this came out of Quesnel mouth which leads me to believe that they continue to think of WRC as an important marketing tool, maybe not for ten years, but for some reasonable time.

[dimviii]

I'm talkin about BP Ultimate (which owns Castrol brand).

Also, i am talking about BP/Castrol :D

[dimviii]

what makes you think that they will give him as a present....Ogier has a contract up to 2013 with Citroen if he wants to break it legaly he (or his sponsors/manager/ford) will pay them a lot.

And i think that if ogier doesn't want to work for citroen then it doesn't really matter what citroen wants....you cannot have a displeased driver in the team because you are ruined, so if all that Blah Blah rumours we get from finnish and british media are true then Citroen will let Ogier go and just cash in his reputation in Gold.
I didn t said that they are going to give him as a present, the opposite i said.

[Plan9]

I doubt that such a big space on the car would be dedicated to a simple supplier... I think there's also money in the mix!

At one time I read that Red Bull was moving to Mini. I am not sure if this is now going to happen as they may instead go with VW. I hope they do get a title sponsor although the car looks pretty as it is now. But they do need money.

Why have some people been putting Petter with Loeb at Citroen? I suspect that Nasser will join Citroen as the third man and the car will have some Qatar branding on it (be a very busy livery next year)

[Mitch555]

There won't be much movement until VW come with a WRC car. VW will run their selected two juniors in SWRC. Tanak could be one of them.

Citroen
1. Loeb
2. Ogier

Ogier will surely stay, unless a deal can be made to trade Ogier and Hirvone. If this doesn't happen and Ogier leaves, I'd be thinking Bouffier or Hanninen could come in.

Ford
1. Hirvonen
2. Latvala

Again, no changes. Maybe they'll get wise and swap the two of them around and get a tarmac expert.

Mini
1. Sordo
2. Meeke

I don't think Petter will come back to Prodrive, unless it was issues with the Subaru side, or if he can patch things up. Meeke is going to be under pressure if he can't get a good score on these last two rallies, or in the first 3 next year. Could see Prodrive hiring Atkinson if that happened. Even Gronholm is they were really desperate for European rounds until they found a replacement. Sordo will be the man to watch I believe.

PRIVATEERS
Raikkonen: he will go back to racing, probably F1

Ford B Team
1. Henning Solberg
2.
Unsure what will happen here. Not sure how much the Stobart brand is getting out of WRC. Plus Ostberg and Wilson both struggled to find budgets. If Ford has the resources to run it we could see Henning Solberg running again if he can find the money. Wilson may do SWRC if he can't find the budget, and try and proove to everyone he can drive... Second seat is open for the taking unless Ostberg gets the cash. Even then, 4 Nordic drivers in the best 4 Fords isn't the wisest. They might start taking offers from further south in Europe.

Monster Ford
1. Ken Block
2. Petter Solberg
This is just me speculating. It would make sense. If Petter is going to drive for VW, Mini or Subaru (come on, its a given with the announcement of a 1.6L AWD WRX car), he only needs one more year in a privateer car. Citroen is a damn site more expensive than Ford, and Petter is not getting the real benefits. Even Block showed in France that the Fiesta is capable. Sponsor wise, its a dream for Monster Energy to break further through in Europe, whilst only sponsor Petter would lose is Mad Croc. Plus better management for both with Ken Rees and Derek Dauncey able to take on roles together, get more interest in other management joining, and taking the load off Petter. Petter will also enjoy working with Henning with the same car. Monster might also become the 'number 2 team' in place of Stobart.

FORD CUSTOMERS
MUNCHIS: Villagra?? might go someone new
ABU DHABI: Al Qassimi
FERM: Dennis Kuipers & Rene Kuipers (select rounds)

CITROEN CUSTOMERS
MERKSJTEIN: Peter Jnr and Snr (select rounds)

Citroen might look at getting a few others in, they have the budget to make cars a little cheaper. They will start to lose out to Ford and Mini I fear if they don't get more cars out on the stages collecting data.

MINI CUSTOMERS
BRAZIL: Oliviera
Araujo
Antony Warmbold for some European rallies maybe :)
Campana might do tarmac rallies again

Henning Solberg might switch here if Wilson and Ostberg get the Stobart drives, as it puts him down the order in car preperation terms, as at best he gets the 5th best car at Ford. Mini may also then nominate him for points in Sweden too. It'd be a good strategic move for all

Some other people from the Netherlands like Hans Weijs and Kevin Abbring might be able to find some money for some European rallies and customer cars.

VW - SKODA S2000
1. Juho Hanninen
2. German/Ott Tanak

Hanninen has the testing experience and has become a very accomplished driver over the last few years. He might be pounced on by a few teams. Mini and Citroen if/when Ogier/Loeb leaves.

[Plan9]

Mini
1. Sordo
2. Meeke

I don't think Petter will come back to Prodrive, unless it was issues with the Subaru side, or if he can patch things up. Meeke is going to be under pressure if he can't get a good score on these last two rallies, or in the first 3 next year. Could see Prodrive hiring Atkinson if that happened. Even Gronholm is they were really desperate for European rounds until they found a replacement. Sordo will be the man to watch I believe.

I think that Prodrive have invested a lot in Meeke and will be prepared to take the time with him to smooth him out as a driver. The financial benefit of producing a driver from the British Isles will pay for any crashes he may have along the way, he is the only realistic chance after what happened to Wilks, Alister McRae and the Higgins boys. I would be surprised if he didn't crash out of all rallies this year as he does not know any of them and he is ambitious guy. Don't forget also that Codemaster will probably make him the face of a rally franchise when Block leaves.

Monster Ford
1. Ken Block
2. Petter Solberg
This is just me speculating. It would make sense. If Petter is going to drive for VW, Mini or Subaru (come on, its a given with the announcement of a 1.6L AWD WRX car), he only needs one more year in a privateer car. Citroen is a damn site more expensive than Ford, and Petter is not getting the real benefits. Even Block showed in France that the Fiesta is capable. Sponsor wise, its a dream for Monster Energy to break further through in Europe, whilst only sponsor Petter would lose is Mad Croc. Plus better management for both with Ken Rees and Derek Dauncey able to take on roles together, get more interest in other management joining, and taking the load off Petter. Petter will also enjoy working with Henning with the same car. Monster might also become the 'number 2 team' in place of Stobart.

I agree this would be amazing!!! Once again I am also speculating but I was thinking that when Block leaves the WRC Monster may want to expand its involvement in the sport by endorsing a factory team. I was thinking that when Block left they would fill his place with another celebrity driver. Monster could be a good place for Petter to do a few rounds while testing for VW/Skoda. Funnily enough Meeke has also mentioned being interested in doing a duel Gymkhana with Block if the chance arose. I am sure that whatever happens, anything that involves the Monster logo will be popular as ****!!

[focus206]

In my opinion Block will leave WRC at the end of this year... the Monster Team will stay anyway? Same for Munchi's/Villagra?

[Barreis]

Go A.Warmbold.

[Mitch555]

I agree this would be amazing!!! Once again I am also speculating but I was thinking that when Block leaves the WRC Monster may want to expand its involvement in the sport by endorsing a factory team. I was thinking that when Block left they would fill his place with another celebrity driver.

Ken Block will be staying in the WRC for a few more years according to a source who is very close to him. He sold up DC Shoes to have a go at rallying, then did Gymkhana for fun, it took off. However, rallying is his main desire. I would think there will be one Gymkhana left perhaps, and thats it for that franchise. Ken wants to rally

[focus206]

Ken Block will be staying in the WRC for a few more years according to a source who is very close to him. He sold up DC Shoes to have a go at rallying, then did Gymkhana for fun, it took off. However, rallying is his main desire. I would think there will be one Gymkhana left perhaps, and thats it for that franchise. Ken wants to rally

But some time ago I read an interview in which he was saying that his sponsors (I think Monster) wants him to do more things in America, like rallycross, and since his WRC campaign is going bad (Ok, 8th place in Alsace is not bad, but it's the first time I see him going decently) to leave the championship...

[TyPat107]

I would count on him coming back to America to rally. With Rally America recently being sold, the new owners are looking for ways to increase visibility over here and Ken would do that. Also his new "Hybrid Hooning vehicle" is made to take full advantage of the RA rule book, provided he never crashed there isn't another car over here that can match that car for speed (near showroom Sti's vs Fiesta wrc Chassis & Focus Wrc engine). Ken could use the publicity for being on top and RA could use the publicity for having ken.

Ken and DC are going to keep riding the gymkhana thing for a while. DC is in the process of trademarking the word "Gymkhana". There is a grassroots sanctioning body here that was called Gymkhana Grid that has been told they must change their name and cannot hold events with the title "Gymkhana" by DC's lawyers.

[alleskids]

Martin Prokop has bought a Fiesta WRcar and is planning al European rounds.
Henning Solberg skipped Argentina to secure his 2012 budget, so he is confirmed (?)
Everybody is forgetting Nasser Al Attiyah who has a load of Qatar money to become part of a factory team and favours Citroen. Will Citroen really ignore the oil money?

[Motorsportfun]

Martin Prokop has bought a Fiesta WRcar and is planning al European rounds.
Henning Solberg skipped Argentina to secure his 2012 budget, so he is confirmed (?)
Everybody is forgetting Nasser Al Attiyah who has a load of Qatar money to become part of a factory team and favours Citroen. Will Citroen really ignore the oil money?

He will put the Barwa sponsor into the WRC campaign, while Henning and Prokop looks confirmed for 2012...

[Plan9]

Ken Block will be staying in the WRC for a few more years according to a source who is very close to him. He sold up DC Shoes to have a go at rallying, then did Gymkhana for fun, it took off. However, rallying is his main desire. I would think there will be one Gymkhana left perhaps, and thats it for that franchise. Ken wants to rally

I follow Ken on facebook and he posted a picture of the HFV Fiesta with a quote like "Ken to Global Rallycross 2012". I think that Gymkhana will become what Drifting in the US was about 10 years ago and attract many people. Of course Ken will be its face.

I think that the monster team will continue in some guise as it provides REALLY good exposure to fords brands. I would have to say I see more Monster WRT shirts are becoming ubiquitous in the WRC now.

[Plan9]

Go A.Warmbold.

If Mini make a B-Team I hope he is part of it!!!

[Iskald]

Some new perspectives, perhaps:

Citroën:
1. Loeb
2 Hirvonen

Ford:
1. Latvala
1. Ogier

Mini:
1. Østberg
2. Meeke

VW (test and development)
1. Grønholm
2. Sordo
3. Mikkelsen (to go with factory team from 2013)

Petter Solberg - left without any other options than his privateer team...? Henning Solberg - Ford B-team - or ERC Rallycross?

[tfp]

Citroen-
1. Seb Loeb
2.Mikko Hirvonen

Ford-
1.JML
2.Seb Ogier

Mini-
No changes

VW
1.P.Solberg
2.J.Hanninen

Thats my opinion.

[Bobcat]

Citroen: no changes
1. Loeb
2. Ogier

Ford: no changes
1. Hirvonen
1. Latvala

Mini: no changes
1. Sordo
2. Meeke

or

Citroen:
1. Loeb
2. Sordo

Ford:
1. Ogier
1. Latvala

Mini:
1. Hirvonen or ???
2. Meeke

VW: (development)
1. P. Solberg or Hirvonen
2. Hanninen or Mikkelsen

[focus206]

Citroen-
1. Seb Loeb
2.Mikko Hirvonen

Ford-
1.JML
2.Seb Ogier

Mini-
No changes

VW
1.P.Solberg
2.J.Hanninen

Thats my opinion.

I agree with tfp.
Someone can remember me how many Fabia S2000 are going to be used by Volkswagen in 2012? 2 or 3?

[Plan9]

Does anyone know how many Polos there will be next year total? I was wondering if a customer would enter rallies before the official VW team does. My guesses are these:
VW WRT- 2 cars for well know drivers
VW B WRT- 1 German + 1 for Mikkelsen
Customers- Not sure how many of these

Citroen WRT- Loeb + Ogier + Nasser Al-Attiyah
PH Sport- Van Merksteijn, ICE-1 (maybe no Kimi), someone Citroen has their eyes on for the future.

[N.O.T]

Does anyone know how many Polos there will be next year total? I was wondering if a customer would enter rallies before the official VW team does. My guesses are these:
VW WRT- 2 cars for well know drivers
VW B WRT- 1 German + 1 for Mikkelsen
Customers- Not sure how many of these

Citroen WRT- Loeb + Ogier + Nasser Al-Attiyah
PH Sport- Van Merksteijn, ICE-1 (maybe no Kimi), someone Citroen has their eyes on for the future.

how many times have you seen a private car entering before the official one ???

[Hartusvuori]

how many times have you seen a private car entering before the official one ???

It kind of happened this season, but in VW's case, no way.

[cali]

how many times have you seen a private car entering before the official one ???
MINI, but count this as an exception to the rule

[N.O.T]

Mini was super production car although the only difference was the aero package and the different flywheel...but still no WRC.

[Langdale Forest]

What is super production?

[Hartusvuori]

Mini was super production car although the only difference was the aero package and the different flywheel...but still no WRC.

True, and that is why I said kind of. Still most paid close attention to the car and its performance because it gave an indication, rather good too actually.

[stepunk]

Does anyone know how many Polos there will be next year total? I was wondering if a customer would enter rallies before the official VW team does. My guesses are these:
VW WRT- 2 cars for well know drivers
VW B WRT- 1 German + 1 for Mikkelsen
Customers- Not sure how many of these


No Polos in 2012, they'll start in 2013!
Or did i miss something?

[6789]

What is super production?
I think its the slightly lower formula which is replacing S2000.

VW have said no cars until 2013, but I'm hoping they do a few events late 2012 :)

[Sulland]

What is super production?

Minis version of the RRC, a regional rally car = 1600T with 30 mm restrictor, cars for class 1. Btw WRC and S2000/R4 tat is class 2.

RRC should be top class for national and regional series.

[Barreis]

It won't be VW WRC on rallies until 2013.

[Plan9]

No Polos in 2012, they'll start in 2013!
Or did i miss something?

I posted that because I thought that VW was going to name the drivers BEFORE they even put a car on the road. I would site the signing of Meeke to Mini as a example.

@NOT- I was thinking that what Arujo and Oliveria's entries in the ST2000 Minis was basically the same as making the debut of the car. I know that they were technically different to the "WRC" variations.

[Plan9]

Minis version of the RRC, a regional rally car = 1600T with 30 mm restrictor, cars for class 1. Btw WRC and S2000/R4 tat is class 2.

RRC should be top class for national and regional series.

That's interesting. Why did Mini choose to make a ST rather than a pure S2000 or RRC? Is there a cost benefit? I am surpirsed that they didn't make a lower spec Countryman as well.

[Zeakiwi]

Citroen -Loeb
-P Solberg
-Al Attiyah (Also Dakar Rally)
-Neuville
VW - Hirvonen
- Drivers by rotation

Ford - Latvala
- (Ogier)
- Al Qassimi -selected events (also Cross country/ Bajas in Ford Ranger Prototype )
- Tanak
Mini - Sordo
- Ostberg
- Meeke (to test driver and selected events)
__________________________________________________ _______________________________________________
Citroen - Loeb
( -Ogier) Neuville (Solberg to Global Rallycross, Pikes Peak)
VW - Haninen
- Gassner Jr
Ford- Latvala
-Tanak
-Hirvonen - To Global rally cross and (Cross country )
-Wilson promoted to lead IRC Fiesta team.
-Qassimi to IRC team
Mini - Sordo
(Ogier- contract with BMW)
Campana

[wildsir]

Citroen -Loeb
-P Solberg
-Al Attiyah (Also Dakar Rally)
-Neuville
VW - Hirvonen
- Drivers by rotation

Ford - Latvala
- (Ogier)
- Al Qassimi -selected events (also Cross country/ Bajas in Ford Ranger Prototype )
- Tanak
Mini - Sordo
- Ostberg
- Meeke (to test driver and selected events)
__________________________________________________ _______________________________________________
Citroen - Loeb
( -Ogier) Neuville (Solberg to Global Rallycross, Pikes Peak)
VW - Haninen
- Gassner Jr
Ford- Latvala
-Tanak
-Hirvonen - To Global rally cross and (Cross country )
-Wilson promoted to lead IRC Fiesta team.
-Qassimi to IRC team
Mini - Sordo
(Ogier- contract with BMW)
Campana

Never in all my days...

[Sulland]

That's interesting. Why did Mini choose to make a ST rather than a pure S2000 or RRC? Is there a cost benefit? I am surpirsed that they didn't make a lower spec Countryman as well.

Continuing this on the Mini thread.

[Barreis]

I hope less paying drivers and more paid drivers.

[Plan9]

I don't get why people are changing the Mini teams drivers. Anyone who has watched the team's debut video will know that Meeke will be there for at least 3 years. Richards wanted to develop him over a long period. From what I've read, Sordo only has a 1 year deal with them at the moment.

@Barreis- I think we will probably only see more amateurs for a good few years yet.

[noel157]

Citroen -Loeb
-P Solberg
-Al Attiyah (Also Dakar Rally)
-Neuville
VW - Hirvonen
- Drivers by rotation

Ford - Latvala
- (Ogier)
- Al Qassimi -selected events (also Cross country/ Bajas in Ford Ranger Prototype )
- Tanak
Mini - Sordo
- Ostberg
- Meeke (to test driver and selected events)
__________________________________________________ _______________________________________________
Citroen - Loeb
( -Ogier) Neuville (Solberg to Global Rallycross, Pikes Peak)
VW - Haninen
- Gassner Jr
Ford- Latvala
-Tanak
-Hirvonen - To Global rally cross and (Cross country )
-Wilson promoted to lead IRC Fiesta team.
-Qassimi to IRC team
Mini - Sordo
(Ogier- contract with BMW)
Campana

What are you on? Can I have some?

[6789]

Citroën
1.Loeb
2.Hirvonen
Citroën customers
Solberg privateer or no drive at all
Van Merkstein
Novikov

Ford
3.Ogier
4. Latvala

Ford Customers
Wilson
Ostberg
H Solberg
Block (Less a few rounds which clash with USA/drifting)
Tanak (Ford supported deal)
Mini
5. Sordo
6. Meeke

VW (Testing and S2000 events)
7. Hänninen
8. Mikkelsen

That's a start on my predictions, not based on any real knowledge but lol

[kolin]

Ogier and Latvala Good team.
I think Tänak drive 2012 SWRC to learn stabiliti. And rounds witch not SWRC rounds He drive WRC

[rubla]

I think Tänak drive 2012 SWRC to learn stabiliti.

I hope not. With Juho probably gone to WRC, he has nothing to do in SWRC.

[Allar]

Tänak will not do SWRC nextyear, Its just pointless. I think selected events with WRC is a answer for nextyear.

[6789]

Some SWRC rounds as well would have to be better than missing them but

[Plan9]

Does anyone think that Stobart will follow Munchi's and withdraw its endorsement of the the M-Sport team? What would replace it? Monster with a bigger role?

[noel157]

By some reports Stobart will not be present in WRC next year. Ostberg's Adapta may take over. Where that leaves young Wilson I don't know.
And of course Mini need a major sponsor.

[N.O.T]

By some reports Stobart will not be present in WRC next year. Ostberg's Adapta may take over. Where that leaves young Wilson I don't know.
And of course Mini need a major sponsor.

i doubt young wilson has a car because of stobart...

[Mitch555]

i doubt young wilson has a car because of stobart...

I'm not too sure about that N.O.T, at the moment he only has Stobart and M-Sport logos on the car, and he only has 3 additional sponsors on his overalls (in Acropolis). British business, British driver... I think what Stobart would have wanted was Wilson to be somewhat of a success, thus getting them really good coverage.

[Barreis]

Wilson has lot's of cars. :D

[tfp]

Wilson has lot's of cars. :D

I saw an interview matt wilson once....the interviewer asked what he drove around in every day....Apparently, a "normal ford focus" :D is the car he uses every day! :s mokin:

[alleskids]

i doubt young wilson has a car because of stobart...

Maybe Wilson junior has a WRC program because Wilson senior is skimming off other drivers budget? Wilson only has Stobbart as (big) sponsor, but Stobart does not pay money anymore, only with free lorry services. Does a free lorry service pay off for a 14 round WRC program? Kuipers, Ostberg, Villagra, Block, Solberg, all Ford privateers hiring a car of M-Sport are all paying for Wilsons program.

Even if the ADAPTA Team fals appart, Wilson could become the second FERM WRT driver :) . or what ever privateer Ford team appears in the 2012 WRC

[Wasted Talent]

Talking about Matt Wilson's budget/car/dad on here is just sooooo boring......................

WT

[Bobcat]

MaxRally | News | Quesnel reveals background to team orders (http://www.maxrally.com/news/entry/quesnel_reveals_background_to_team_orders/)

[noel157]

Maybe Wilson junior has a WRC program because Wilson senior is skimming off other drivers budget? Wilson only has Stobbart as (big) sponsor, but Stobart does not pay money anymore, only with free lorry services. Does a free lorry service pay off for a 14 round WRC program? Kuipers, Ostberg, Villagra, Block, Solberg, all Ford privateers hiring a car of M-Sport are all paying for Wilsons program.

Even if the ADAPTA Team fals appart, Wilson could become the second FERM WRT driver :) . or what ever privateer Ford team appears in the 2012 WRC

Wonder if the big blue kitchen is paid for yet?

Can't find a picture of it but similar to this (must be entertaining potential sponsors in this picture, although they seem to be walking past it....):

http://harbourcatering.co.uk/Pictures/Wedding3.jpg

[Plan9]

By some reports Stobart will not be present in WRC next year. Ostberg's Adapta may take over. Where that leaves young Wilson I don't know.
And of course Mini need a major sponsor.

I think Slowson could just as easily end up in something Monster branded. Adapta may want Henning????

I think Mini will have something for next year. I'm guessing but maybe an energy drink brand or some such other fast moving consumer brand.

[rubla]

I think Slowson could just as easily end up in something Monster branded. Adapta may want Henning????

I think Mini will have something for next year. I'm guessing but maybe an energy drink brand or some such other fast moving consumer brand.

On Friday 21st we probably get confirmation that Ott will start RWGB on Fiesta WRC and after that rally Wilsons 5 year plan will look even more like a joke - does anyone have any doubts that Ott will kick Matt's behind on his 1st start on WRC, while he has done this many times on individual stages with S2000? What might possibly go through that sponsors mind who then still offers Matt his money? Or does daddy have some spicy pictures with sponsors CEO and some underage gals... ;)

[cali]

On Friday 21st we probably get confirmation that Ott will start RWGB on Fiesta WRC and after that rally Wilsons 5 year plan will look even more like a joke - does anyone have any doubts that Ott will kick Matt's behind on his 1st start on WRC, while he has done this many times on individual stages with S2000? What might possibly go through that sponsors mind who then still offers Matt his money? Or does daddy have some spicy pictures with sponsors CEO and some underage gals... ;)
can you just give Matt a rest, we all know what he's all about. It's like stating the obvious thing all over again and again and again ........... nothing new

[rubla]

can you just give Matt a rest, we all know what he's all about. It's like stating the obvious thing all over again and again and again ........... nothing new

:D :D Rally forum equivalent of De mortuis nil nisi bonum :D :D

True, it is quite obvious. So, let him drive in peace as he wants. I will no more mention his name :)

[Plan9]

I saw an interview matt wilson once....the interviewer asked what he drove around in every day....Apparently, a "normal ford focus" :D is the car he uses every day! :s mokin:

I wonder if Loeb & Ogier like nothing better than a cool sip of Red Bull at the end of a hard weekend? =p

[Bobcat]

Sainz says Loeb and Ogier line-up should be no issue for Citroen - WRC news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/95525)

Carlos Sainz believes Citroen should be capable of managing Sebastien Loeb and Sebastien Ogier in the same team.

[janvanvurpa]

Wonder if the big blue kitchen is paid for yet?

Can't find a picture of it but similar to this (must be entertaining potential sponsors in this picture, although they seem to be walking past it....):

http://harbourcatering.co.uk/Pictures/Wedding3.jpg

[Homer Simpson voice on] Hummmmmmm. Chips.....must eat chips. Wonder if they have Daddy's sauce? yum. (drool) [/Homer Simpson voice off]

[tfp]

can you just give Matt a rest, we all know what he's all about. It's like stating the obvious thing all over again and again and again ........... nothing new

Well said mate :up:
Its boring reading the same complaint over, and over, and over...


I wonder if Loeb & Ogier like nothing better than a cool sip of Red Bull at the end of a hard weekend? =p

Nothing wrong with that, I'm partail to a red bull :) , In fatc, if they ask me nicely, I might even join them for one :laugh:

[rubla]

Well said mate :up:
Its boring reading the same complaint over, and over, and over...



In my little universe complaining about Matt at least once during ongoing season is firmly among basic human rights. I used my 1 time, so i am at peace :D

[Plan9]

Well said mate :up:
Its boring reading the same complaint over, and over, and over...



Nothing wrong with that, I'm partail to a red bull :) , In fatc, if they ask me nicely, I might even join them for one :laugh:

Me 2. I hear that Webber and Vettel do not like it. I'm more a monster man myself

[RobertS]

Sainz says Loeb and Ogier line-up should be no issue for Citroen - WRC news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/95525)

Carlos Sainz believes Citroen should be capable of managing Sebastien Loeb and Sebastien Ogier in the same team.
Sainz >
"For me it is possible to manage two very good drivers and I don't see why it can't be done in the future."


Maybe some words from the near future?
Sounds like if he is VW team-boss in 2013 with similar 'problems' :s mokin:

[tfp]

Me 2. I hear that Webber and Vettel do not like it. I'm more a monster man myself

I'm pretty sure Webber doesnt like red bull any more :D
Speaking of monster, I wonder what Ken Block is doing next year?

[Plan9]

I'm pretty sure Webber doesnt like red bull any more :D
Speaking of monster, I wonder what Ken Block is doing next year?
Yeah I suppose Mark will be finding the taste of Red Bull rather bitter as it hasn't been "giving him wings" this year!!!

Im not sure what Ken is doing next year but the following article does give some clue into the state of his bank account; although it is most about his time off the WRC. He could not afford to test for Spain this year; that's not saying he is poor but it does give pause for thought. I was wondering if this could show that if there is any chance for Petter at MWRT next year some additional money will need to be found.

http://www.maxrally.com/news/entry/balearic_break_boosts_block/

[TyPat107]

Block claims to be doing more wrc next year. That proves me wrong.

http://www.maxrally.com/news/entry/block_back_for_more_in_2012/

[Hartusvuori]

Block claims to be doing more wrc next year. That proves me wrong.

http://www.maxrally.com/news/entry/block_back_for_more_in_2012/

If I checked it right, next year X Games and Rally Finland won't clash. Maybe we'll see Mr. Block trying to make friends with Finnish jumps then...

[N.O.T]

i doubt he is that stupid to go to finland...

[Bobcat]

http://www.best-of-rallylive.com/en/2011/10/23/the-next-generation/

[N.O.T]

another useless site....

clicky clicky....

[skarderud]

on norwegian rallystudio today, petter said that the ogier-hirvonen swap is a deal. he going to announce something the next 2 weeks about next season, he won't say what, but vw is likely. citroen in norway really want him doing citroen another season tought....

[AndyRAC]

on norwegian rallystudio today, petter said that the ogier-hirvonen swap is a deal. he going to announce something the next 2 weeks about next season, he won't say what, but vw is likely. citroen in norway really want him doing citroen another season tought....

Well if Citroen Norway want him, put up the money & support!! Petter has said he can't do another season running his own team.
I'd read that the VW negotiations had broken down.....???

[skarderud]

i think that the rumours of vw-breakdown is only wishthinking from finnish media. i dont think petter is so stupid that he don't take what he gets these days.

[Bobcat]

on norwegian rallystudio today, petter said that the ogier-hirvonen swap is a deal. he going to announce something the next 2 weeks about next season, he won't say what, but vw is likely. citroen in norway really want him doing citroen another season tought....

"desperate little british, norwegian, finnish reporters..." N.O.T says!

LOL :D

[vkangas]

i think that the rumours of vw-breakdown is only wishthinking from finnish media. i dont think petter is so stupid that he don't take what he gets these days.
This time it was not MTV3's yellow-press-wishtinkers but maybe the most reliable finnish motorsport journalist Heikki Kulta from Turun Sanomat.
http://www.ts.fi/moottoriurheilu/kolumnit/269447.html

[N.O.T]

"desperate little british, norwegian, finnish reporters..." N.O.T says!

LOL :D

considering the countries above cry like little girls all these years with the domination of french in the best motorsport in the world...i guess you sum me up pretty nicely.

[Viking]

Petter priced himself out?? How much were they willing to pay Loeb again??

[cali]

Petter priced himself out?? How much were they willing to pay Loeb again??
Sry mate, Loeb is in a different category :) It's not comparable.

[N.O.T]

Petter priced himself out?? How much were they willing to pay Loeb again??

well they had a reason to give Loeb that much....they had No reason to even give Solberg 1 cent....Peter should be happy if they just offered him a free drive with the expenses of traveling ects covered.

[MJW]

I know these Citroen and Ford post event videos are nothing but promotion and spin for the brands, but I cant help but thinking that Jari Matti was saying the truth when he believed he will have a fight for the championship in 2012. http://www.youtube.com/FordWRC
That doesn't seem like a guy sitting out 2012 testing a Polo.
Also what will happen if Seb Loeb has a disaster in Wales, maybe an engine failure?, and Mikko does become a paper (un)deserving champion. Will Ford MSport then allow their first WRC driver champion to walk away? I know it happened with Burns and Subaru at the end on 2001 but that was after court cases. It will be ironic if Hirvonen wins the championship in a Ford and come Monte in January he is a number 2 driver at Citroen.
This silly season is indeed very silly. I somehow think it will be post Wales GB before these Ogier /Hirvonen stories are confirmed either way.

[CyborgVR4]

This silly season is indeed very silly. I somehow think it will be post Wales GB before these Ogier /Hirvonen stories are confirmed either way.I find the speculation more silly than the season, at least this year there just might be some thing interesting happen, although I wouldn't be surprised if there is no news even after Rally GB, often these things are not officially confirmed until Jan 1 after other contracts expire (which prevent drivers having any involvement, which includes news release's, with other teams). We might all have to wait a good while longer yet!!

[Bobcat]

MaxRally | News | Wilson: Tanak is ready for World Rally Car (http://www.maxrally.com/news/entry/wilson_tanak_is_ready_for_world_rally_car/)

Tanak will drive a Ford Fiesta RS WRC in the 2012 World Rally Championship.

[Miika]

i think that the rumours of vw-breakdown is only wishthinking from finnish media. i dont think petter is so stupid that he don't take what he gets these days.

Wishful thinking or not, but if Latvala is available for 2013 and his price tag is cheaper compared to Petter, VW would be a bit mental not to opt for Latvala.

And yes, I´m biased, predicting it will be Latvala-Hänninen in VW in 2013, with some young German next-Michael-Schumacher-of-rallying collecting experience in the third car (now that Ott is trapped in Malcolm´s kitchen for years to come).

[Barreis]

It's bad to have 2 Finns in one team.

[Sulland]

What is the latest and greatest on the rumor front on what team the different drivers will be in next year?

[bassist]

What is the latest and greatest on the rumor front on what team the different drivers will be in next year?

Wont a lot of it hinge on Fords continuation in the championship?

[Bobcat]

What is the latest and greatest on the rumor front on what team the different drivers will be in next year?
http://www.motorsportforums.com/wrc/146268-ford-ends-m-sport-run-wrc-26.html#post983126

[noel157]

http://www.motorsportforums.com/wrc/146268-ford-ends-m-sport-run-wrc-26.html#post983126

Read the article, stupid title. It's just saying it could be Hirvonen's last drive for Ford, nothing to do with Ford and M-Sport stopping.

[Plan9]

10 in a row for Loeb?

But seriously, I don't think we can guess who will drive where. Loeb, Meeke, Sordo are secure where they are. Everyone else must still be unconfirmed officially?

[Bobcat]

AUTOhebdo.fr | Hirvonen-Citroën : Loeb lâche l'info (http://www.autohebdo.fr/rallye/wrc/breve-26-1-19739/121111-hirvonen-citroen-loeb-lache-l-info)

[N.O.T]

10 in a row for Loeb for sure an a career down the drain for Ogier....oh well...

[Langdale Forest]

At least Mikko would be Citroen's no.2 driver, he is good at that.

[White Sauron]

At least Mikko would be Citroen's no.2 driver, he is good at that.

But what if... Hirvonen proves quicker than Loeb in the same car?

[N.O.T]

But what if... Hirvonen proves quicker than Loeb in the same car?

he will not be faster...

what ifs have no point right now.....

[dimviii]

But what if... Hirvonen proves quicker than Loeb in the same car?

Hirvonen faster than Loeb,while this year Mikko was much slower than Latvala? This scenario=slower driver is Loeb.

I have a feeling,that (if Ogier is in Ford and Mikko at Citroen) finally fiesta isn t slower than ds3.Just 3 months patience guys.It will be very interesting.

[White Sauron]

Hirvonen faster than Loeb,while this year Mikko was much slower than Latvala? This scenario=slower driver is Loeb.

For once, I agree with NOTer, it's to early to make any assumptions or predictions, but... again, what IF the Fiesta just didn't suit Hirvonen as well as partner? And if he feels comfortable behind the wheel of the DS3...

[dimviii]

For once, I agree with NOTer, it's to early to make any assumptions or predictions, but... again, what IF the Fiesta just didn't suit Hirvonen as well as partner? And if he feels comfortable behind the wheel of the DS3...

a rally car isn t a costume to say to ''suit'' the driver.
Mikko will test with his mechanics,and he will adjust everything at how he likes to drive.Everything from diffs,suspension,engine response,hard/mild/low antilag at gravel/tarmac/wet tarmac/slippery tarmac/snow/mud.Every part on these car can be adjusted to suit everydriver.
if Mikko have the know-how to adjust is an other point.His co-operation with his chief mechanic is something nobody can know before some first rallies at 2012.
Thats why i said that it ll be a interesting year if the swap exists.
I d like to see if Ogier is fast at first days in rallies(as was at Citroen,but wasn t Mikko on Ford) his pace on asphalt,Mikkos pace in snow etc.

[tolis]

Just 3 months patience guys.It will be very interesting.
It's only 2 months. ;)

[Andre Oliveira]

The manufacters should be able to have three pilots. 2 fixed and 1 rotative for experts. So you could have experts such as Duval, Sarrazin, ...

[Sulland]

If Ogier goes to Ford, the Fiesta will suddenly become a very good asphalt car.......

[Nornbugger]

The manufacters should be able to have three pilots. 2 fixed and 1 rotative for experts. So you could have experts such as Duval, Sarrazin, ...


Duval being the pie eating expert?

[Plan9]

Duval being the pie eating expert?


a rally car isn t a costume to say to ''suit'' the driver.
Mikko will test with his mechanics,and he will adjust everything at how he likes to drive.Everything from diffs,suspension,engine response,hard/mild/low antilag at gravel/tarmac/wet tarmac/slippery tarmac/snow/mud.Every part on these car can be adjusted to suit everydriver.
if Mikko have the know-how to adjust is an other point.His co-operation with his chief mechanic is something nobody can know before some first rallies at 2012.
Thats why i said that it ll be a interesting year if the swap exists.
I d like to see if Ogier is fast at first days in rallies(as was at Citroen,but wasn t Mikko on Ford) his pace on asphalt,Mikkos pace in snow etc.

I agree.

I am now reasonably sure that Mikko will be in Red next year. I think it will be most interesting to see how Mikko adapts his skills to the new team and if he is just as consistent.

Of future interest will be whether he becomes a Massa now that he is racing a god and has the mental stamina to hand in there. Will he be slowed like Petter in 2010???

Second, I think Citroen will likely help him to second and allow him to win the rallies the Loeb can't for some reason.

Big question: in 2014 will Citroen remain and make Mikko number 1 so he can get a title of his own, or will Ogier be back to take Loeb's status?

[N.O.T]

Big question: in 2014 will Citroen remain and make Mikko number 1 so he can get a title of his own, or will Ogier be back to take Loeb's status?

the big question is what will happen in 2023.....

some people should stick watching F1 with Massa and the other lapdogs.

[tfp]

the big question is what will happen in 2023.....

some people should stick watching F1 with Massa and the other lapdogs.

Another completely uncalled for comment :)
Stunning!
The big question for me is whether Citroen will stay after loebs contract finishes, they wouldnt want to risk not winning!

[GigiGalliNo1]

I say Citroen will pull out end of Loeb season in 2 yrs.

[Gordini]

henning solberg should come in Lotus GT if class approved for 2012.

[rp]

After Ogier´s contract. It´s time again to predict the WRC 2012...

Hopefully Abu Dhabi will continue to support Ford/M-Sport, if not Al Qassimi is out and maybe Ford also, but I am sure that M-Sport will continue at least the next season and Latvala is aiming the drivers title just like Ari Vatanen/David Sutton Rothmans Escort during the season 1981.

If Ford is pulling out it will be very difficult for M-Sport after the season 2012 and it is not possible to keep in touch with Citröen and VW anymore...

In the SWRC it will be very interesting season if all the drivers get enough budget.

Visit Qatar Citröen Total W.R.T.
Sebastien Loeb/Daniel Elena (F/MC) Citröen DS3 WRC
Mikko Hirvonen/Jarmo Lehtinen (FIN) Citröen DS3 WRC
Nasser Al-Attiyah/Giovanni Bernacchini (QA/I) Citröen DS3 WRC

Ford (Abu Dhabi) W.R.T.
Jari-Matti Latvala/Miikka Anttila (FIN) Ford Fiesta RS WRC
Ott Tänak / Kuldar Sikk (EE) Ford Fiesta RS WRC
Khalid Al Qassimi/Michael Orr (UAE/GB) Ford Fiesta RS WRC

MINI WRC Team (maybe 10 WRC events, all European rounds)
Daniel Sordo/Carlos del Barrio (E) MINI John Cooper Works WRC
Kris Meeke/Paul Nagle (GB/IRL) MINI John Cooper Works WRC

Adapta M-Sport Ford Rally Team Norway
Mads Østberg/Jonas Andersson (N/S) Ford Fiesta RS WRC
Petter Solberg/Chris Patterson (N/GB) Ford Fiesta RS WRC
Henning Solberg/Ilka Minor (N/A) Ford Fiesta RS WRC

FERM Power Tools World Rally Team
Denis Kuipers/Frédéric Miclotte (NL/B) Ford Fiesta RS WRC

Czech Ford National Team (10 WRC events, all European rounds)
Martin Prokop/Jan Tomanek (CZ) Ford Fiesta RS WRC

Monster Ford World Rally Team (6 WRC events)
Ken Block/Alex Gelsomino (USA/I) Ford Fiesta RS WRC

M-Sport Dealer (6 WRC events)
Jari Ketomaa/Mika Stenberg (FIN) Ford Fiesta RS WRC

World Rally Team Brazil
Daniel Oliveira/Carlos Magalhães (BR/P) MINI John Cooper Works WRC

Motorsport Italia (Prodrive)
Armindo Araujo/Miguel Ramalho (P) MINI John Cooper Works WRC

Van Merksteijn Motorsport (PH Sport)
Peter van Merksteyn Jr./Eddy Chevaillier (NL/B) Citröen DS3 WRC

SWRC:

Juho Hänninen/Mikko Markkula (FIN) Škoda Fabia Super 2000
Sébastien Ogier/Julien Ingrassia (F) Škoda Fabia Super 2000
Andreas Mikkelsen/Ola Floene (N) Škoda Fabia Super 2000
Hermann Gaßner jr/Kathi Wüstenhagen (D) Škoda Fabia Super 2000
Eyvind Brynildsen/Cato Menkerud (N) Škoda Fabia Super 2000
Craig Breen/Gareth Roberts (IRL/GB) Ford Fiesta S2000
Karl Kruuda/Martin Järveoja (EE) Ford Fiesta S2000
Egon Kaur/Mait Laidvee (EE) Ford Fiesta S2000
Hayden Paddon/John Kennard (NZ) ? Subaru Impreza STi R4
Julien Maurin/Olivier Ural (F) Ford Fiesta S2000

IRC:
Andreas Mikkelsen/Ola Floene (N) Škoda Fabia Super 2000
Jan Kopecky/Petr Stary (CZ) Škoda Fabia Super 2000
Freddy Loix/Frédéric Miclotte (B) Škoda Fabia Super 2000
Patrik Sandell/Staffan Parmander (S) Škoda Fabia Super 2000
Toni Gardemeister/Tapio Suominen (FIN) Škoda Fabia Super 2000
Thierry Neuville/Nicolas Gilsoul (B) Peugeot 207 Super 2000
Bryan Bouffier/Xavier Panseri (F) Peugeot 207 Super 2000
Matthew Wilson/Scott Martin (GB) Ford Fiesta S2000
Karl Kruuda/Martin Järveoja (EE) Ford Fiesta S2000
Chris Atkinson/Stephane Prevot (AUS/B) Proton Satria Neo Super 2000
Per-Gunnar Andersson/Emil Axelsson (S) Proton Satria Neo Super 2000

[noel157]

Think Abu Dhabi are long gone.

[Mise]

Would be nice to see whats the diffrence in speed between ogier and Hänninen and ogier and Mikkelsen.
Or to put it this way: Whats the difference between WRC driver and IRC drivers.

[tfp]

Would be nice to see whats the diffrence in speed between ogier and Hänninen and ogier and Mikkelsen.
Or to put it this way: Whats the difference between WRC driver and IRC drivers.

That question has already been answered with Mini ;)

[RS]

Would be nice to see whats the diffrence in speed between ogier and Hänninen and ogier and Mikkelsen.
Or to put it this way: Whats the difference between WRC driver and IRC drivers.

Not much in terms of outright speed I think, only in terms of experience of WRC events and turbo cars.

[Micke_VOC]

In Swedish newspapers PG told that he try Proton to do SWRC.


Source: P-G på väg mot SWRC | Värmlands Folkblad (http://www.vf.se/sport/bilsport/p-g-pa-vag-mot-swrc)
Google Översätt (http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=sv&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vf.se%2Fsport%2Fbilsport%2Fp-g-pa-vag-mot-swrc)

[Rallyper]

And Flodin wants to do SWRC next year. URT is trying to make a deal with russian sponsors for Flodin to start in SWRC.

[ProRally]

And Flodin wants to do SWRC next year. URT is trying to make a deal with russian sponsors for Flodin to start in SWRC.

What car Subie R4 or S2000 ?

[Rallyper]

What car Subie R4 or S2000 ?

Well, that´s not official, but he´s talking about a car costing about three times a N4 so I´ll guess it´s a S2000 of some sort.

[Plan9]

I am starting to worry about Hanninen now. Ogier and Mikkelsen in the official VW team, and then a b team for the youngesters. Where do you guys think he will fit into this situation?

[Sulland]

There is nothing official beside Ogier yet is there ?
So I guess Hanninen is still in the picture - or is he out ???

[RS]

There is nothing official beside Ogier yet is there ?
So I guess Hanninen is still in the picture - or is he out ???

Nissen said he is keeping his eye on Juho. I am sure he will do some Polo testing. Juho and Kopecky did most of the Fabia development and that turned out ok...

Juho's only problem I guess will be his age. Can somebody say why, as I did not follow his early career? Late starter? Late bloomer? No money? Too much time wasted early on on his domestic championship?

[Hartusvuori]

Can somebody say why, as I did not follow his early career? Late starter? Late bloomer? No money? Too much time wasted early on on his domestic championship?

Hänninen has been rallying since it's been possible and he has also been going outside Finland since 2005 I think, so not a late starter and not exactly a late bloomer either. He did PWRC in 2007 (5th) and 2008 (2nd). It's however a long way for any privateer to become a professional and Hänninen's luck stroke first when Skoda signed him. Now it's about time to see if Skoda years fruit a step up. His age, 30 years, is not yet a problem I think, but of course he has more past the middle of his career than Mikkelsen and Neuville who are clearly younger. If Hänninen doesn't get a proper WRC chance, it's talent gone wasted though I wouldn't say his last three seasons has been worthless. It's not for us to decide.

[mousti]

Wasn't he a bit more crash prone around 2007 and 2008 ? He came a very fast guy since he got the huge improvement on asphalt.

[Mirek]

2007 and 2008 he had big technical problems. He won by far most of stages in PWRC and never retired due to a crash (once lightly rolled if I remember but was able to continue). His crash times started in 2009 in Škoda.

[dimviii]

2007 and 2008 he had big technical problems. He won by far most of stages in PWRC and never retired due to a crash (once lightly rolled if I remember but was able to continue). His crash times started in 2009 in Škoda.

New Zealand i think rolled 2 times.

[JHvP]

Yes and both during one SS

[noel157]

New Zealand i think rolled 2 times.

Remember watching it on the old "Eye in the Sky". The year Nasser and Patterson won the PWRC.

[Plan9]

I don't think age is an issue. Meeke is like 32 and he's fast as! he and Juho should have at least a decade left in top level motorsport. Look at Kenneth Eriksson.

[Wim_Impreza]

Marcus Grönholm had also his first full year in the WRC when he was +30 years.

[Sulland]

But I feel Hanninen has a sort of Loeb'ish ability. He can suddenly put in one or two blindingly fast ss, and decide the rally by that. Not many others can do that.

[Plan9]

Also, he won't have a steep learning curve once he does get a full-time WRC seat (I'm sure he will get one eventually). The main drawback of hiring some younger drivers is they still have a bit of experience to gain.

Juho is clearly the master of s2000 technology; someone will surely make use of him.

[mousti]

Autonews reporting that Tanak will team up with Ostberg for the Adapta Junior team and Solberg would be 2nd official driver while Henning takes the Al Qassimi car...

[alleskids]

very good news for both Solbergs. Ony thing I a afraid there wil be no official Ford car/team :(
only M-Sport 1 (Latvalla/P.Solberg/H.Solberg)
M-Sport 2 (Ostberg/Tanak)
M-Sport with Ferm sponsering (D.Kuipers/R.Kuipers)
M-Sport with Monster sponsering (Block)

[focus206]

Autonews reporting that Tanak will team up with Ostberg for the Adapta Junior team and Solberg would be 2nd official driver while Henning takes the Al Qassimi car...

Sounds good. But since there is no more Abu Dhabi, there is no more the Team Abu Dhabi of Al Qassimi, so there would be a 3 cars team with Henning taking the 3rd "works" car?
Let's hope anyway Ford doesn't pull out...

[Rallyper]

Sounds good. But since there is no more Abu Dhabi, there is no more the Team Abu Dhabi of Al Qassimi, so there would be a 3 cars team with Henning taking the 3rd "works" car?
Let's hope anyway Ford doesn't pull out...

I think Solberg brothers bring the money MW wants and that will be very good. Hope though that FORD will be in the background even next year.

[mousti]

Sounds good. But since there is no more Abu Dhabi, there is no more the Team Abu Dhabi of Al Qassimi, so there would be a 3 cars team with Henning taking the 3rd "works" car?
Let's hope anyway Ford doesn't pull out...
That's the Al Qassimi car I meant :)

[Plan9]

Autonews reporting that Tanak will team up with Ostberg for the Adapta Junior team and Solberg would be 2nd official driver while Henning takes the Al Qassimi car...

What sponsors does he bring?

[Plan9]

But I feel Hanninen has a sort of Loeb'ish ability. He can suddenly put in one or two blindingly fast ss, and decide the rally by that. Not many others can do that.

I was thinking he may have a little Juha in there as well

[mousti]

What sponsors does he bring?
Probably some he already had the last years Expert and Samsung maybe Norwegian Army. Petter, Mad Croc, Eurolotto, Re:member etc. We'll see

[Sulland]

Important for Ford to get sorted out the 2012 team and start testing. Mikko has had his first taste already. Petter struggled this year with no or little testing.

[Hartusvuori]

Important for Ford to get sorted out the 2012 team and start testing. Mikko has had his first taste already. Petter struggled this year with no or little testing.

Hasn't Ford been testing whole this weekend?

[Bobcat]

Hasn't Ford been testing whole this weekend? Champagne time isn't testing :D Wall Photos | Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=324662107547316&set=a.164422696904592.42010.157932864220242&type=1)

[Franky]

Champagne time isn't testing :D Wall Photos | Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=324662107547316&set=a.164422696904592.42010.157932864220242&type=1)

That's practicing.

[alleskids]

So far we have:
confirmed/most likely/rumoured

Volkswagen Motorpsport: Ogier (13) / Mikkelsen/ Wiegand

Visit Qatar Citroen: Loeb (13)/Hirvonen (13)
custumers:
Visit Qatar: Al Attiyah (10-12)
Van Merksteijn: Van Merksteijn jr (13) / Van Merksteijn sn
Magneti Marelli: Pedersoli (6-8)

M-Sport Ford: Latvalla (13) / .... Tanak (13)
custumers
M-Sport / Adapta: Ostberg/ P Solberg/ H Solberg
Jipocar: Prokop (10)
FERM: D Kuipers (13)/ R Kuipers
Brasil WRT: Oliveira
Monster: Block (6)

Prodive Mini: Sordo/Meeke (8-10)
custumers
Motorsport Italia: Nobre/ Araujo
Dynamic rallyteam: Kosciuszko

[alleskids]

on autosportforum.be it was rumoured that Koscuizsko had more plans with the Mini WRC

there a clos source to Neuville said a SWRC/IRC program with Peugeot is pretty sure for 2012

SWRC 2012
Ogier (Skoda)
Mikkelsen (Skoda)
Breen (Ford)
Neuville (Peugoet)
Andersson (Proton)
Paddon (?)

[mousti]

Do you have any source (link) for the rumors about Kosciuszko in Mini WRC? Or have you just seen a design for Rajd Barborka?
BH Multimédias - Photos, Vidéos & Infos Rally (https://www.facebook.com/BH.Multimedias)

I better asked a source, because I thought it was indeed a one shot for Barborka :-/.

[alleskids]

that is why I posted the this list :) . to collect al the rumours and facts so far on the forum, so new names can be added and some removed

[mousti]

This article is going around now..

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/384841_2770665071585_1406751981_3041229_370249765_ n.jpg

[jtsmee]

Just read an article saying that Hayden Paddon is testing with a British WRC team shortly - so that'd be either M-Sport or Mini I guess?

Hayden Paddon survives cliff fall - national | Stuff.co.nz (http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/6090027/Rally-champs-car-saves-his-life)

[pantealex]

SWRC 2012
Ogier (Skoda)
Mikkelsen (Skoda)
Breen (Ford)
Neuville (Peugoet)
Andersson (Proton)
Paddon (?)

I don´t think that Ogier will do SWRC because of testing regulations. If you drive SWRC you can´t test before rally, only one official test day for every rally.

[rp]

I don´t think that Ogier will do SWRC because of testing regulations. If you drive SWRC you can´t test before rally, only one official test day for every rally.

They do not need to drive the test with the Skoda. One day is enough before the event and surely Ogier is ready to race...

During the next year Volkswagen is free to drive test with the Polo R WRC how much they want. They can drive one day with the Skoda and more with the Polo...

[Juha_Koo]

MTV3, lol what a picture fail...

Latvalalle yllättävä tallikaveri Monteen - MTV3.fi - Urheilu - Ralli - Uutiset (http://www.mtv3.fi/urheilu/ralli/uutiset.shtml/2011/12/1455870/latvalalle-yllattava-tallikaveri-monteen)

[Barreis]

New generations. :D

[Plan9]

So far we have:
confirmed/most likely/rumoured

Volkswagen Motorpsport: Ogier (13) / Mikkelsen/ Wiegand

Visit Qatar Citroen: Loeb (13)/Hirvonen (13)
custumers:
Visit Qatar: Al Attiyah (10-12)
Van Merksteijn: Van Merksteijn jr (13) / Van Merksteijn sn
Magneti Marelli: Pedersoli (6-8)

M-Sport Ford: Latvalla (13) / .... Tanak (13)
custumers
M-Sport / Adapta: Ostberg/ P Solberg/ H Solberg
Jipocar: Prokop (10)
FERM: D Kuipers (13)/ R Kuipers
Brasil WRT: Oliveira
Monster: Block (6)

Prodive Mini: Sordo/Meeke (8-10)
custumers
Motorsport Italia: Nobre/ Araujo
Dynamic rallyteam: Kosciuszko

we don't know how many rounds mini will do; we have not seen their bank account yet =p

[noel157]

MTV3, lol what a picture fail...

Latvalalle yllättävä tallikaveri Monteen - MTV3.fi - Urheilu - Ralli - Uutiset (http://www.mtv3.fi/urheilu/ralli/uutiset.shtml/2011/12/1455870/latvalalle-yllattava-tallikaveri-monteen)

"sponsoroi Romanian matkailutoimisto" Strangest driver/sponsor combination I've seen for some time....

[Mirek]

Delecour was sponsored by Romania already last year ;)

[alleskids]

Van Merksteijn Motorsport is scaling down their rally activities. Only a small number of WRC rounds wil be done in2012. Their business is taking to much of their time to be a rally driver on a professional way.

[mousti]

Delecour was sponsored by Romania already last year ;)
Yeah he even did a rally there if I remember correctly.

[Mirek]

Wasn't it in a cup Dacia Logan? :)

[mousti]

Yeah I think so.. :)

[tolis]

Wasn't it in a cup Dacia Logan? :)
Indeed, it was Sibiului Rally this year. He finished 14th, 1st in Dacia Logan Cup. So, we may also see him in this rally which is part of IRC for next season.

[alleskids]

German press report that Herman Gassner is going to do the 2012 SWRC with a Mini John Cooper Works S2000 with Red Bull. It is a S2000 wit 1,6 turbo engine, so it has to be called John Cooper RRC I think. Are Regional rally cars allowed in S20000?

[Juha_Koo]

German press report that Herman Gassner is going to do the 2012 SWRC with a Mini John Cooper Works S2000 with Red Bull. It is a S2000 wit 1,6 turbo engine, so it has to be called John Cooper RRC I think. Are Regional rally cars allowed in S20000?

Gassner will also end cooperation with Kathi Wüstenhagen. Split has been said to happened "in co-operation and in good spirits" but wasn't there some rumours about Gassner being not happy with her performance this year (also some comments about the same thing from Gassner's manager/mentors?)?

Anyway, Wüstenhagen will be fit enough to compete again in January after Rallye France crash where she substained broken ribs and a pelvis. But will there be a new driver?

[tolis]

Maciej Oleksowicz will do some WRC rounds, maybe SWRC!

[mousti]

Gassner will also end cooperation with Kathi Wüstenhagen. Split has been said to happened "in co-operation and in good spirits" but wasn't there some rumours about Gassner being not happy with her performance this year (also some comments about the same thing from Gassner's manager/mentors?)?

Anyway, Wüstenhagen will be fit enough to compete again in January after Rallye France crash where she substained broken ribs and a pelvis. But will there be a new driver?
Maybe Burkart aren't they engaged or in a relationship?

[Mirek]

German press report that Herman Gassner is going to do the 2012 SWRC with a Mini John Cooper Works S2000 with Red Bull. It is a S2000 wit 1,6 turbo engine, so it has to be called John Cooper RRC I think. Are Regional rally cars allowed in S20000?

No :)

RRC is a name used by M-Sport. SPC is used by Prodrive but both is only their name not according to FIA.

Official name is the strange "S2000 1.6T" (basically the only difference to normal S2000 is engine) and yes, these cars are allowed in SWRC and IRC next year.

[Hartusvuori]

No :)

RRC is a name used by M-Sport. SPC is used by Prodrive but both is only their name not according to FIA.

Official name is the strange "S2000 1.6T" (basically the only difference to normal S2000 is engine) and yes, these cars are allowed in SWRC and IRC next year.

Hell yeah! Tell that to the average Joe getting first time interested in rallying... ;-)

[Mirek]

His head would explode anyway when I would start with all possible rally cars :D

WRC 2.0T, WRC 1.6T, S2000, S2000 1.6T, R-GT, R3, R3C, R3T, R3D, R4, R4T, R2B, R2C, R1A, R1B, S1600, A7VK, A6VK, A7, A6, A5, A5VK, A8, N4, N3, N2, N1 and now 1,...10 etc. etc. :D

[noel157]

Remember the good (and simple) old days? Grp 1, 2, 3 & 4.

[Bartek]

Maciej Oleksowicz will do some WRC rounds, maybe SWRC!

I think only SWRC. Honestly he is too slow for WRC, if i remember good, he never won rally in Poland

[tolis]

I think only SWRC. Honestly he is too slow for WRC, if i remember good, he never won rally in Poland
I didn't mean he'll drive a Fiesta WRC! :D He'll drive his Fiesta S2000. Official press release will be published soon.

[Bartek]

I didn't mean he'll drive a Fiesta WRC! :D He'll drive his Fiesta S2000. Official press release will be published soon.

Ok, my mistake :)

[tolis]

Press release: Oleksowicz w SWRC! (http://oleksowicz.pl/pl/news/oleksowicz-w-swrc-83.html)

[Plan9]

German press report that Herman Gassner is going to do the 2012 SWRC with a Mini John Cooper Works S2000 with Red Bull. It is a S2000 wit 1,6 turbo engine, so it has to be called John Cooper RRC I think. Are Regional rally cars allowed in S20000?

Does this mean that Red Bull will also have a presence on the works cars?

Another query: Does anyone have a update on Juho's negotiations with VW?

[Mirek]

Another query: Does anyone have a update on Juho's negotiations with VW?

I don't know about VW but Juho was testing yesterday with works Fabia on snow (Jan on Monday). I think it was for Jänner Rally.

[tolis]

Kosciuszko will do again PWRC next year: Maciej Oleksowicz wystartuje w Rajdowych Samochodowych Mistrzostwach (http://aktualnosci.auto-swiat.pl/1-maciej-oleksowicz-wystartuje-rajdowych-samochodowych-mistrzostwach-swiata)
So, no MINI WRC for the Polish... :(