Travellers vs. Useless Councils

[Bolton Midnight]

Illegal occupation of land with a caravan to change from a civil to a criminal offence - e-petitions (http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/1309)

Bulldoze the pikey scum

[Azumanga Davo]

Yet I just received a fine for running out of fuel and leaving the car for an hour to get more.

Already punished once for my stupidity, why twice? Money grabbing morons picking on easy targets.

[SGWilko]

Illegal occupation of land with a caravan to change from a civil to a criminal offence - e-petitions (http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/1309)

Bulldoze the pikey scum

This is not a clear cut case though, is it? These travellers own the land, it is the fact that they erected their homes on it without planning permission.

Should they be allowed to apply for retrospective permission, and face a stiff fine, or should the dwellings be taken down?

The trouble with some traveller communities is the mess they leave behind - if we actually designate areas where they can settle, and provide bins etc, half the issues are dealt with straight away.

The problems this issue highlights will get worse due to the fast approaching recession........

[BDunnell]

This is not a clear cut case though, is it? These travellers own the land, it is the fact that they erected their homes on it without planning permission.

Should they be allowed to apply for retrospective permission, and face a stiff fine, or should the dwellings be taken down?

The trouble with some traveller communities is the mess they leave behind - if we actually designate areas where they can settle, and provide bins etc, half the issues are dealt with straight away.

The problems this issue highlights will get worse due to the fast approaching recession........

All very true, although, I suspect, the fact of this case being rather more nuanced than simply 'They are scum' may go over the heads of some.

[Bolton Midnight]

They broke the laws, you try building without permission and see what happens, no European Court of Human Rights for you oh no.

They don't pay council tax or income tax yet expect everything they want given to them on a plate.

They are travellers so why the need to have a place to settle?

Nope bulldoze them.

[555-04Q2]

Yet I just received a fine for running out of fuel and leaving the car for an hour to get more.

Already punished once for my stupidity, why twice? Money grabbing morons picking on easy targets.

Or you can just make sure you have enough fuel before you start off on your trip. I've never understood how people can run out of fuel in a car :crazy:

[Bolton Midnight]

Pushing the envelope so you can get to the right petrol station to get tokens/points.

[Mark]

Pushing the envelope so you can get to the right petrol station to get tokens/points.

Or one that is reasonably priced!

[Bolton Midnight]

Or one that is reasonably priced!

Long way to go for that, Bulgaria / Turkey maybe............

[Azumanga Davo]

Or you can just make sure you have enough fuel before you start off on your trip. I've never understood how people can run out of fuel in a car :crazy:

You would be amazed how easy it's done. Anyway, at least I didn't live on the land for years at a time. Just borrowed it for an hour or so was enough. ;)

[SGWilko]

Or one that is reasonably priced!

He's in a car, not a time machine!!!!!

[Captain VXR]

£18,000,000 of tax payer's money could've been better spent - schools, hospitals etc
It was pointed out in Question Time that 90% of applications for planning permissions for traveller's sites get rejected, compared with only 20% of applications for houses being rejected
Not that I condone illegal building, they should be given a fine rather than being ejected and simply moving to a new illegal site as they (probably) have nowhere else to go
Bolton Midnight - would you be happy with the residents of Dale Farm moving to a legal site near your home?

[Alexamateo]

Yet I just received a fine for running out of fuel and leaving the car for an hour to get more.

Already punished once for my stupidity, why twice? Money grabbing morons picking on easy targets.

I like what they do where I live. They place a sticker on your back window indicating you are illegally parked. You then have 24 hours to get the car moved. If it is not moved, they tow it and you pay a fine and towing fee only then.

[Bolton Midnight]

£18,000,000 of tax payer's money could've been better spent - schools, hospitals etc
It was pointed out in Question Time that 90% of applications for planning permissions for traveller's sites get rejected, compared with only 20% of applications for houses being rejected
Not that I condone illegal building, they should be given a fine rather than being ejected and simply moving to a new illegal site as they (probably) have nowhere else to go
Bolton Midnight - would you be happy with the residents of Dale Farm moving to a legal site near your home?

The magnitude of the amount just demonstrates the incompetence and high salaries of your average council worker (oxymoron if ever there was one as they don't know the meaning of the word work). Oh and just as an aside Basildon council gave them 12 grand I think to build an illegal community centre (which will be dismantled and stored for them once they finally leave and then re built at the rate payers expense wherever they end up).

I think you've got your figures wrong, I watched Qt and This Week which followed and I think it was 90% of applications by pikeys are successful on appeal which was greater than the rate for non pikeys appealing (which sounds a lot more believable in broken Britain).

They wouldn't pay a fine, they don't pay tax, rates etc they only like society when it is giving them free stuff and legal aid millions. They have been offered alternative housing and they don't want it, although they did offer to sell the place back to the council for 6 million despite it being worth next to nothing.

No as I don't see what makes them so friggin special that they should get free housing at the expense of the daft sods who obey the laws/rules.

[Bolton Midnight]

Dale Farm travellers paid housing benefit by Basildon Council that's trying to evict them | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2040470/Dale-Farm-travellers-paid-housing-benefit-Basildon-Council-thats-trying-evict-them.html?fb_ref=LikeButtonTop&fb_source=other_multiline)


Staggering:In 2008, Essex County Council's Racial Equality Council funded a £12,000 community centre built at the site, built without planning permission.

The tools at Basildon Council are actually paying to have this resited to a more suitable location after the eviction.

real 'stop the world I want to get off' stuff this

[Knock-on]

They're obviously doing something right over there to get local governments to stand on their heads and pay them.

On this side of the Atlantic the Travellers have a well earned reputation as common thieves and scam artists.

Oh, they have that reputation over here as well.

Bolton has captured, in his own interminable way, the very essence of the issue.

Travellers obey the rules they want to and have no collective conscience regarding non-travellers. Yet they are expert at playing the system whether it's through benefits or local government, planning, Inland Revenue or whatever.

It really is galling to tax payers how these people, on benefits and grants, manage to drive around in the newest Mercedes and BMW, stealing, fighting and terrorising the surrounding areas to their enclosures and basically make everyone's life a misery. Yet the police, Inland revenue and authorities have no powers or are scared to act against them.

[SGWilko]

Oh, they have that reputation over here as well.

Bolton has captured, in his own interminable way, the very essence of the issue.

Travellers obey the rules they want to and have no collective conscience regarding non-travellers. Yet they are expert at playing the system whether it's through benefits or local government, planning, Inland Revenue or whatever.

It really is galling to tax payers how these people, on benefits and grants, manage to drive around in the newest Mercedes and BMW, stealing, fighting and terrorising the surrounding areas to their enclosures and basically make everyone's life a misery. Yet the police, Inland revenue and authorities have no powers or are scared to act against them.

Down my way (ish) - Swanley - many years back, the local scallywags dealt with 'Pikeys' rather effectively: Basically, they had been making a nuisance of themselves and outstayed their welcome, so a whole load of residents turned up one evening all carrying brimmed fuel cans and issued an ultimatum - clear off or your entire community will be raised to the ground.

They've never returned since.........

[Bolton Midnight]

The councils are as effective as a chocolate kettle despite costing millions they are just useless, like the vast majority of the public sector.

Labour have messed things up so much the system actually favours the criminal, unemployed, feckless etc. The silent majority have no rights.

[BDunnell]

Labour have messed things up so much the system actually favours the criminal, unemployed, feckless etc. The silent majority have no rights.

I don't break the law, yet I don't feel hard done by.

You, on the other hand, with your delight at people having sex in toilets and your pleasure at seeing the seriously ill continuing to smoke, are a fine one to lecture others on how to conduct their lives.

[Rudy Tamasz]

I don't break the law, yet I don't feel hard done by.

You, on the other hand, with your delight at people having sex in toilets and your pleasure at seeing the seriously ill continuing to smoke, are a fine one to lecture others on how to conduct their lives.

Hey, getting personal while discussing public issues is not very classy, is it?

[Bolton Midnight]

Hey, getting personal while discussing public issues is not very classy, is it?

Fine with me, he's clueless and he knows it

[BDunnell]

Hey, getting personal while discussing public issues is not very classy, is it?

So the fact of his being a hypocrite is irrelevant?

I take it you haven't read many of his contributions, either.

[Knock-on]

Come on chaps. That thread is road-kill. Lets try and salvage this one before a deluge of Thread closing descends on the forum ;)

[driveace]

Don't like them,thriving anything they can get their hands on,they have no accommodation address so no one can serve a notice on then,and if they do there off,quick as possible,would never want them as neighbours,and tell them nothing,cos if they don't pinch it their kin will.Some cannot read or write,so cannot pass a theory test to pass a driving test,and have they insurance,at all ?Just thankful one of them has not run into me.And most of them have adequate,and new houses in Ireland too

[BDunnell]

Some cannot read or write

'Don't like them,thriving anything they can get their hands on,they have no accommodation address so no one can serve a notice on then,and if they do there off...'

Er...

[Bolton Midnight]

You might want to have a gander at the smoking thread before you defend someone who is extremely insulting in the first place. ;)

I never insult anyone who hasn't insulted me first, if they can give it they must accept it in return. He isnulted me loads in the past so will get it back with interest.


Come on chaps. That thread is road-kill. Lets try and salvage this one before a deluge of Thread closing descends on the forum ;)

As soon as Bumdell joins a thread it dies, he has the debating skills of a table lamp. He should have agreed to step aside re the whole young smokers on the up thing, ***************** he wouldn't accept the challenge. Best he let the growns up discuss gypos and concentrate on ********.

[Bolton Midnight]

slaver

Go away, this thread isn't for you

go and send some money to Greece

[Knock-on]

I never insult anyone who hasn't insulted me first, if they can give it they must accept it in return. He isnulted me loads in the past so will get it back with interest.



As soon as Bumdell joins a thread it dies, he has the debating skills of a table lamp. He should have agreed to step aside re the whole young smokers on the up thing, but as he's spineless he wouldn't accept the challenge. Best he let the growns up discuss gypos and concentrate on his personality disorder.

You are doing nothing but being negative and Trolling now. You had loads of unsubstantiated claims which were blatantly wrong on that thread so might be best to draw back a bit from that stance.

However, as I said earlier, you have a lot of valid points on this thread so how about we cut the bull and debate the issue, unless you have no interest in that and just want a silly argument on a pointless forum about things that we cannot influence ;)

My starter for ten points: What positive impact do Gypsies and Travellers have. We can all debate that they are scum, pikeys, thieves etc but is there anything positive about this so called 'race'.

[BDunnell]

My starter for ten points: What positive impact do Gypsies and Travellers have. We can all debate that they are scum, pikeys, thieves etc but is there anything positive about this so called 'race'.

Bless you for trying to come back to the point, but I can't help feeling that the thread was not started with actual debate in mind.

To be honest, asking whether travellers have any positive impact on society is, to me, akin to asking whether, say, men called John make a positive contribution, or people born on a Tuesday. They are human beings just like the rest of us, albeit with a different way of life to most.

[Bolton Midnight]

You are doing nothing but being negative and Trolling now. You had loads of unsubstantiated claims which were blatantly wrong on that thread so might be best to draw back a bit from that stance.

However, as I said earlier, you have a lot of valid points on this thread so how about we cut the bull and debate the issue, unless you have no interest in that and just want a silly argument on a pointless forum about things that we cannot influence ;)

My starter for ten points: What positive impact do Gypsies and Travellers have. We can all debate that they are scum, pikeys, thieves etc but is there anything positive about this so called 'race'.

I'm not the troll. They were not wrong, I even posted links to satisfy the 'if you provide a link it is blatantly true' brigade.

Keep the child away and we can have a grown up discussion, not really a debate as I don't think anyone is in favour of the gypos breaking the law with impunity.

I suppose they are well respected within the horsey community, Appelby Fair and the like wouldn't be as big a thing without them, but again they spoil it by getting drunk, fighting and littering lay-bys galore en route.

Not sure how good or bad they are at tarmacing (sp) either.

Semi legitimate caravan makers will no doubt pay some tax on their products, some very luxurious large caravans about.

[Bolton Midnight]

Bless you for trying to come back to the point, but I can't help feeling that the thread was not started with actual debate in mind.


See what I mean, he's at best a lame wummer at worst a troll

go away and sort your sad life out, this is for grown ups

[Rudy Tamasz]

So the fact of his being a hypocrite is irrelevant?

I take it you haven't read many of his contributions, either.

I'm not speaking about his contrbutions, or even yours, for that matter, in general. I just saw a specific post that was less than classy and expressed my opinion. That was it. I was also disappointted to see that "sex in toilet" thing quoted twice, as if one quote was not enough. C'mon, you can do better than that.

[Bolton Midnight]

You've called me a dullard, a moron, thick, an idiot need I go on? I have questioned your opinions but I have never insulted you in that way, so your claim you only insult those who have insulted you first is false. :down:

You have in the past.

And I probably haven't called you those names you just think I have.

You connect yourself with the insult, I don't.

[Captain VXR]

Can we keep the bitching to pms please?

[Bolton Midnight]

I have NEVER insulted you by calling you a name. Don't tell me I have in the past because you are lying, and I challenge you to quote me otherwise.

oops


Peace out mother funger.. :s mokin: :)



how pathetic your arguement is.



Wrong, again.............

[Bolton Midnight]

Garden Court Chambers - Marc Willers | Lincoln's Inn Fields | London (http://www.gardencourtchambers.co.uk/barristers/marc_willers.cfm)

Marc is the co-editor and co-author of a book entitled Gypsy and Traveller Law which was first published by the Legal Action Group and the Commission for Racial Equality in 2004

Dale Farm: Travellers get nearly £200,000 in legal aid (From Brentwood Weekly News) (http://www.brentwoodweeklynews.co.uk/news/basildon/9277317.Dale_Farm__Travellers_get_nearly___200_000 _in_legal_aid/)

[Knock-on]

It really does beggar belief that so much money can be spent on trying to defend people that are breaking the Law.

The irony of the situation is that if these people paid the Taxes they should legally pay, then they wouldn't qualify to receive legal aid which is paid for by Tax payers.

The world is freaking mad.

[Bolton Midnight]

The world is freaking mad.

Agreed

Bizarre set up that the Commission for Racial Equality which is funded by tax payers, fund a book which explains how to diddle taxpayers, you couldn't make this crap up!

Nu Labour have really wrecked this country, and should never ever be elected again, fortunately their current imbeciles and boundary changes seem to be helping towards that end.

[Knock-on]

Agreed

Bizarre set up that the Commission for Racial Equality which is funded by tax payers, fund a book which explains how to diddle taxpayers, you couldn't make this crap up!

Nu Labour have really wrecked this country, and should never ever be elected again, fortunately their current imbeciles and boundary changes seem to be helping towards that end.

Although the CRE has now been merged, it is worth pointing out the main aims of that organisation. My comments in italics

To encourage greater integration and better relations between people from different ethnic groups.
The Traveller community is one of the most insular in this country which actively, sometimes with extreme violence, integration with other cultures.
To use its legal powers to help eradicate racial discrimination and harassment.
Are these people being discriminated against and harassed because of their race? Looks like the other way around to me. They are getting preferential treatment because they are Travellers.
To work with government and public authorities to promote racial equality in all public services.
Aren't they working against the Government and public authorities?
To support local and regional organisations, and employers in all sectors, in their efforts to ensure equality of opportunity and good race relations.
See the answer above
To raise public awareness of racial discrimination and injustice, and to win support for efforts to create a fairer and more equal society.
The public were more than aware of this site and the legitimate travellers had been granted planning permission. There was no racial discrimination there but with this group that illegally squatted, there is an injustice. Injustice that all these wishy, washy, pillow munching, bleeding hearts illegally use their influence to aid a bunch of Law breakers.

[Bolton Midnight]

Agree, reversed prejudice is very much in vogue thanks to 13 years under Liebour.

And often legislation has very much the opposite effect as a potential employer knows things are weighted so heavily against them they will be much more likely to discriminate. Scrap the whole thing and nobody would notice the difference (well apart from a reduction in tax and rates that they would have to pay).

[Knock-on]

Sorry, I've just realised I missed out the word "discourages" in the first line of my response. It should read:

The Traveller community is one of the most insular in this country which actively discourages, sometimes with extreme violence, integration with other cultures.

Makes slightly more sense now ;)

[Bolton Midnight]

Sorry, I've just realised I missed out the word "discourages" in the first line of my response. It should read:

The Traveller community is one of the most insular in this country which actively discourages, sometimes with extreme violence, integration with other cultures.

Makes slightly more sense now ;)

I did think, but the rest of the post made it pretty obvious where you were coming from.

Strange Dale Fm was not mentioned once on QT last night, despite Red Ed hinting at it in his conference speech, typical pinko Beeb though. Mustn't upset the Irish travellers especially not in Liverpool, fine to rubbish our best PM though.

[Knock-on]

I thought QT was pretty good last night. Caroline Flint got her ass handed to her. Tried to fling some dirt only to find she didn't know her facts and kept scoring own goals for the Labour party.

There was a lot of anti-european sentiment flying about. I think we should realise that the Euro is doomed and protect ourself as a Nation from the fallout. It's going to be a disaster if Brussels carries on fighting a lost cause so we need to defend the UK and Ireland as much as we can.

[Bolton Midnight]

QT was awful, few reasons

JSP was on
Audience full of bolshy thick Scousers - esp the fat lass who couldn't get a deposit together despite working and clearly spending money on fake tan
Flint & JSP were allowed by pinko Beeb to talk over the top of anyone slapping them down
Oborne brilliant as usual

Peter Oborne 'Idiot' Comments Prompts EU Spokesman To Storm Off Newsnight - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNq9MOc5CBY&feature=share)

[BDunnell]

QT was awful, few reasons

The main one, apparently, being that not everybody agreed with your opinions.

[Bolton Midnight]

The main one, apparently, being that not everybody agreed with your opinions.

http://www.chevroncars.com/learn/wp-content/uploads/2006/07/tired-yawn.jpg

[Garry Walker]

Agreed

Bizarre set up that the Commission for Racial Equality which is funded by tax payers, fund a book which explains how to diddle taxpayers, you couldn't make this crap up!

Nu Labour have really wrecked this country, and should never ever be elected again, fortunately their current imbeciles and boundary changes seem to be helping towards that end.
Finally some sense from you.

Labour is the worst thing that has happened to UK in a long time.

Of course this whole case is nonsense, they should have bulldozed those buildings at once, but of course everyone knew that they would back down from doing that.

[Bolton Midnight]

Oh hang on I must have got this all wrong, let them have the land and the neighbouring fields. LoL