Standing starts

[seppefan]

The start at Motegi was a complete joke. Standing starts are required on road courses and street courses as per ChampCar, F1 and all other open wheel Championships. Rolling starts are correct only for ovals.

[00steven]

That's a pretty great idea actually.

[SarahFan]

I'm for them also because they add diversity to the series

[anthonyvop]

Frankly I see no reason why they can't use them on Ovals as well.

Imagine 33 cars lighting them up on the front straight at Indy!!!

[jwhite9185]

No! Keep rolling starts IMO. Its what makes it different from the rest!!

[heliocastroneves#3]

No! Keep rolling starts IMO. Its what makes it different from the rest!!

Agree with you for 100%.

[Chris R]

I just re-read AJ Foyt autobiography from back in 1983 - sounds like rolling starts have been a problem (even on ovals and at Indy) back at least into the mid 1950's - apparently from Foyt's point of view/memory at the time there were 3 or 4 500's in a row that did not get past lap one without an accident.... you also have 1964 at Indy, 1982 and a few other first lap/pre-start incidents that escape me at the moment....

While the rolling start is an AOWR tradition, I am all for switching all of them to standing starts - the rolling ones are not working so great so switch it up..... I have to agree that 33 cars lighting them up at Indy would be a sight to behold....

[Lousada]

They should also use standing restarts. At least then they would actually be two wide.

[elan 02]

Lets go back a few years to the CC years. I just got a 03 Corvette and called a good LB buddy and said lets drive to Portland for the CC race. We live in NorCal, he said WTF. Now this was the first race for CC to do standing starts. They practiced alot one at a time so that was cool. The start was real exciting, went off great. It is time IC does this NOW. Street/Road

[anthonyvop]

No! Keep rolling starts IMO. Its what makes it different from the rest!!


True Different than NASCAR, the most popular series in the USA......Wait.......What?

[F1boat]

No! Keep rolling starts IMO. Its what makes it different from the rest!!

+1

[Mark in Oshawa]

Rolling starts...rarely fair, and unlike the standing start, you never feel like the last half the field even heard of the green flag. Standing starts, despite what people think actually work better.

[00steven]

Maybe if they lined the cars up double file on the warm up laps they would have some clean starts.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Rolling starts are very fair, if done correctly - which is rarely the case in IndyCar or previously in CC/CART. Seems the starter and/or race control is afraid to send them around again if they're not lined up properly. Having said that, I wouldn't mind standing starts on the street & road courses.
Show me any race outside of an SCCA amateur event (or CASC for that matter) where you see fair rolling starts. I think the amateurs are more inclined to line up because they get smacked down by the stewards if they don't. In pro racing, TV is waiting..and they pretty much drop the flag no matter what....and the guys know that and they screw around something awful. I keep waiting for an Indycar starter to not wave the flag two or three times and I keep waiting for someone to get penalized for not lining up properly. I also note that the last half of the field basically is on the gas hard about two corners before the start because the front rows have just left him. They are often a third of a lap down before the first lap or so is done....

Give me a standing start on road's and streets....the only decent rolling start I saw all season on a road/street was at Edmonton...and they had no excuse there.....

[DavePI2]

standing starts worked well the one year that champ car used them. The start at Cleveland was a great improvement.

[beachbum]

Standing starts sound fine until someone near the front stalls or gets a bad getaway and the people at the back pile into them. I was involved in motorcycle road racing where all starts were standing starts. The number of serious incidents was surprisingly high. Ask Scott Russel about the dangers. It ended his professional motorcycle career and nearly his life.

Starts are always going to be dangerous because you have the whole race field in a confined space, but at least on rolling starts everyone is going pretty close to the same speed. There was some talk about rolling starts for bikes, but the common problem of getting everyone lined up properly (without radios at the time) moved the discussion to the bench racing bin.

[seppefan]

Standing starts sound fine until someone near the front stalls or gets a bad getaway and the people at the back pile into them. I was involved in motorcycle road racing where all starts were standing starts. The number of serious incidents was surprisingly high. Ask Scott Russel about the dangers. It ended his professional motorcycle career and nearly his life.

Starts are always going to be dangerous because you have the whole race field in a confined space, but at least on rolling starts everyone is going pretty close to the same speed. There was some talk about rolling starts for bikes, but the common problem of getting everyone lined up properly (without radios at the time) moved the discussion to the bench racing bin.

Fair point beachbum although when you think that approx. 25 standing starts each weekend in the season if not more in the UK alone I reckon the issue is not too much of a problem otherwise they would not have standing starts. It does happen but the cars are able to cope with the damage while standing starts are exciting, fair to all behind the first three rows of the grid and used globally as the best way to start a race. Worked in Champcar, bring it on!

[seppefan]

Quote from Autoracing1 :


Standing Starts and IndyCar racing Longtime readers of AutoRacing1.com know that we were relentless in lobbying Champ Car to implement standing starts and push-to-pass. After years of work, Champ Car finally implemented both with great success, something we are proud of.
Over the weekend, Randy Bernard revealed on Twitter that he posed the question in a meeting with the IZOD IndyCar Series drivers of whether the Series should move to standing starts on road and street courses in 2012. He reported that 16 of the 26 drivers in attendance voted in favor of the shift.

Bravo - now make it happen Randy!

[Mark]

The vast majority of Motorsport, at least those in Europe have standing starts, probably thousands of races each year without too much trouble.

Not to mention F1 seems to manage ok. Standing starts are the only fair way, IndyCar seems to be who can get away with cheating so much it isn't noticed!

[downtowndeco]

First off I'm basically indifferent, if they want to go to standing starts on road/street circuits I'm OK with that. It changes things up a bit. Just keep the rolling starts on ovals.

That being said, I think some here have an inferiority complex and seem to jealous of everything European. Indycar is not F1 or European style road racing. We have our own set of rules and style of racing here. We don't need to do everything they do to have great, competitive racing here in the states. BTW, I have no problem w/European style racing, I'm watching F1 qualifying right now.

As far as whether rolling starts are really so unfair or not it really just depends on how you look at it. With standing starts the fastest qualified cars start in the front and the slowest cars start in the back. Ditto rolling starts. Lesson
#1? Qualify up front. Secondly, I'll give you that even in the best scenario it is hard to have a perfect 2 x 2 rolling start on many road/street circuits. Fair enough. See lesson 1#. Finally I don't the buy the whole "It was a ragged drawn out start & so I was so far behind after the first 30 seconds I couldn't have any hope of getting a decent finish." IMO, BS. if you can't make up enough positions to have a decent finish after racing for a full two hours with pit stops and full course cautions and everything else that goes on in a race you weren't going to have a good finish whether you had a rolling start or a standing start.

[Dave B]

The vast majority of Motorsport, at least those in Europe have standing starts, probably thousands of races each year without too much trouble.

Not to mention F1 seems to manage ok. Standing starts are the only fair way, IndyCar seems to be who can get away with cheating so much it isn't noticed!

The rolling starts in WTCC are a joke, usually the pack is sent round a couple of times until the starter gets bored and waves them on regardless of who is out of formation. Penalties are unheard of, and so certain drivers really push their luck.

[downtowndeco]

OK, fine. But SCCA club races aren't televised live w/a fixed time spot nor are the racers competeting for hundreds of thousands of dollars in prize money at the end of the year. IMO it's a whole different world, professional & club racing. But yes, you are right. It is possible w/enough patience, time & disipline.


Not true at all. It happens many times every weekend at SCCA club races. If they're not lined up properly they go around again. If one car is the usual culprit, the driver gets to have a nice chat with the stewards and usually a penalty.

[beachbum]

Personally, I don't have a problem with standing starts on road circuits, particularly with anti-stall provisions like the new Indy Car will have. I still believe a well formed rolling start could be safer. In both cases, the cars are all moving at the same speed (0 for the standing start), but with the rolling start, stalling isn't a problem. Of course, NASCAR proves almost weekly that missed shifts and spinning tires still pose serious problems on rolling starts, but that still holds true for a standing start. Mistakes still have consequences.

But that is only if the whole field is formed up correctly at the start. So far, the drivers haven't cooperated much and race control has left them get away with it. Wave off a few bad starts and put the offenders to the back (like many short tracks) and I suspect the rolling start will look a lot better.

In the real world, standing starts are just easier to manage. There isn't much doubt everyone is in the proper place, and jumped starts are pretty easy to enforce. It would be probably be a good change for road courses.

[SarahFan]

OK, fine. But SCCA club races aren't televised live w/a fixed time spot nor are the racers competeting for hundreds of thousands of dollars in prize money at the end of the year. IMO it's a whole different world, professional & club racing. But yes, you are right. It is possible w/enough patience, time & disipline.


So in short amatuers can do but professionals should be expected too

[maxmach]

I really like the rolling starts.....IF THEY DO THEM RIGHT, otherwise, they look sloppy and amateurish, so far they have done maybe one road race right. Give em penelties until they learn, or throw in the towel and go with standing starts.

[numanoid]

Not sure if anyone caught it on the Kentucky pre-race, but Professor B was talking about the 2012 car and called out the hand clutch. He specifically mentioned standing starts, so it's on the mind of the commentators as well.

[call_me_andrew]

Frankly I see no reason why they can't use them on Ovals as well.

Imagine 33 cars lighting them up on the front straight at Indy!!!

Oval cars have tire sizes staggered left to right so when 33 cars light the tires on the front straight at Indy, someone's hitting the pit wall.

[anthonyvop]

Oval cars have tire sizes staggered left to right so when 33 cars light the tires on the front straight at Indy, someone's hitting the pit wall.

Funny how they don't do it after a pit stop.

[NickFalzone]

Funny how they don't do it after a pit stop.

A very good point. To me, standing starts fit right in with "The Greatest Spectacle in Racing". Also... record breaking speeds.. But we all know how that has gone.

[call_me_andrew]

Funny how they don't do it after a pit stop.

A very good point. Since everyone turns right after a pitstop, they would hit the outside wall.

[chuck34]

A very good point. To me, standing starts fit right in with "The Greatest Spectacle in Racing". Also... record breaking speeds.. But we all know how that has gone.

Actually I believe the 500 is the first place that used rolling starts as it was determined that having 40ish (can't remember the exact number off the top of my head) cars all trying to get away at the start would have been too dangerous. With those cars being fairly unreliable and all, I'd say it was a prudent decision. So standing starts actually go against the traditions of "The Greatest Spectacle in Racing".

[Speedworx]

Standing starts helped ruin Champ Cars and there is no place for them in Indycars!!!

[Chris R]

Standing starts helped ruin Champ Cars and there is no place for them in Indycars!!!

I think you are confusing standing starts with low car count, shoddy management and three owners that couldn't quite get along, oh and a catastrophic division of the sport that decimated the fan base..... :D :(

[DBell]

It's funny how a lot of Europeans don't want IndyCar to do standing starts. I remember this was the case when CC was talking about standing starts also. I don't know why they would rather have the messy, strung out starts that have plagued IndyCar on road courses forever versus the close and generally cleaner starts that F1 enjoys. ChampCar did lot of things wrong, but standing starts wasn't one of them. The opening laps of their races where much better, imo, than the opening laps with rolling starts before they switched.

[NickFalzone]

Actually I believe the 500 is the first place that used rolling starts as it was determined that having 40ish (can't remember the exact number off the top of my head) cars all trying to get away at the start would have been too dangerous. With those cars being fairly unreliable and all, I'd say it was a prudent decision. So standing starts actually go against the traditions of "The Greatest Spectacle in Racing".

Perhaps not in tradition, but certainly in spirit.

[NickFalzone]

Apparently the new car has been designed to allow standing starts:

pklyqCw2ckE

[SarahFan]

Standing starts helped ruin Champ Cars and there is no place for them in Indycars!!!

That's a funny post

[seppefan]

It's funny how a lot of Europeans don't want IndyCar to do standing starts. I remember this was the case when CC was talking about standing starts also. I don't know why they would rather have the messy, strung out starts that have plagued IndyCar on road courses forever versus the close and generally cleaner starts that F1 enjoys. ChampCar did lot of things wrong, but standing starts wasn't one of them. The opening laps of their races where much better, imo, than the opening laps with rolling starts before they switched.

I am surprised that you feel most Europeans prefer rolling starts as I have not gained that impression however if correct it could be because we do not have rolling starts for open wheel in Europe and so seeing them in Indycar is novel and different from the norm this side of the pond. Actually Superleague I think have them over here but it is low low on the ratings having financial issues all the time and cancelling races etc which does not attract fans.

[GRW1983]

Having watched the professor's analysis of the new car, i think standing starts will happen. A hand clutch, launch control and anti-stall. There would be little point having that technology if you didn't plan on having them. Champ Car in 2007 and Long Beach 2008 proved they can be exciting. Standing starts for road/streets and rolling starts for ovals in my opinion.