Team Equipment Clarifiaction

[edlalu]

I was reading the current issue of Popular Mechanics. There is an article about the Car of Tommorrow. In the article is the following statement: "the wealthiest Cup teams have as many as 18 different cars for NASCAR’s 23 tracks".
I am not a NASCAR fan so I thought I would come to the fans and ask for clarification on this issue. Is this statement correct? How many teams field multiple cars for the season? What are your opinions on this?

Many thanks and enjoy your race season!

[Lee Roy]

Yes. Most of the top NASCAR teams have a primary car and a back-up car for the different types of tracks.

Some of the different track styles are:

Super-speedways like Daytona & Talladega
Short track cars
1 1/2 mile tracks
The concrete surfaced track at Dover
Flat tracks (New Hampshire & Phoenix)
Some even have seperate cars for the two road courses, since one is primarily left hand turns and the other is primarily right hand turns.

And there are other variations that are taken into consideration.

[NASCARWidow]

I was reading the current issue of Popular Mechanics. There is an article about the Car of Tommorrow. In the article is the following statement: "the wealthiest Cup teams have as many as 18 different cars for NASCAR’s 23 tracks".
I am not a NASCAR fan so I thought I would come to the fans and ask for clarification on this issue. Is this statement correct? How many teams field multiple cars for the season? What are your opinions on this?

Many thanks and enjoy your race season!

One of the reasons for going to the COT, in addition to safety, is to cut down on the number of cars a team will need. Most high dollar teams have between 15 and 20 race cars at any one time.

[blakebeatty]

That was additionally the big complaint by Jack (the complainer) Roush was that the CoT would render his hundred or so nextel cup cars useless

[call_me_andrew]

That was additionally the big complaint by Jack (the complainer) Roush was that the CoT would render his hundred or so nextel cup cars useless

Useless? Or the start of ARCA domination?

[RaceFanStan]

Yeah, type of track, size of track, degrees of banking, surface type ... all make for the need of different cars ...

1. SHORT TRACKS (under 1 mile) (Ovals) : (3 short-tracks but all 3 are different !)
Bristol 0.533 mile oval / 36 degree banking in turns
Martinsville 0.526 mile oval / 12 degree banking in turns
Richmond 0.75 mile oval / 14 degree banking in turns

2. INTERMEDIATE TRACKS (at least 1 mile but under 2 miles) :
Ovals
Darlington 1.366 mile oval / 25 & 23 degree banking in turns
Dover 1.0 mile oval / 24 degree banking in turns
Homestead-Miami 1.5 mile oval / 20 degree banking in turns
Loudon 1.058 mile oval / 12 degree banking in turns
Phoenix 1.0 mile oval / 11 & 9 degree banking in turns

Tri-Ovals
Chicagoland 1.5 mile tri-oval / 14 degree banking in turns
Kansas 1.5 mile tri-oval / 15 degree banking in turns
Las Vegas 1.5 mile tri-oval / 12 degree banking in turns

Quad-Ovals
Atlanta 1.54 mile quad-oval / 24 degree banking in turns
Charlotte 1.5 mile quad-oval / 24 degree banking in turns
Texas 1.5 mile quad-oval / 24 degree banking in turns

3. SUPERSPEEDWAYS (2 miles & larger) :
Oval
Indianapolis 2.5 mile oval / 9 degree banking in turns (almost rectangular in shape) :eek:

D-Shaped Ovals
California 2.0 mile D-shaped oval / 14 degree banking in turns
Michigan 2.0 mile D-shaped oval / 18 degree banking in turns

Tri-Ovals
Daytona 2.5 mile tri-oval / 31 degree banking in turns
Pocono 2.5 mile tri-oval / 14 & 8 & 6 degree banking in turns
Talladega 2.66 mile tri-oval / 33 degree banking in turns

4. ROAD COURSES (1 has has more left handers & the other has more right handers)
Sonoma 1.99 mile
Watkins Glen 2.45 mile

Track sizes may be similar but what about the banking ?
If the banking is different, it may require a different car. :eek:
There are 22 tracks used in Nextel Cup racing ...
only the 1.5 mile tri-oval intermediates (3 tracks) & quad-oval intermediates (3 tracks) are similar. :eek:

18 different cars you say ? Sounds about right to me.

[call_me_andrew]

3. SUPERSPEEDWAYS (2 miles & larger) :
Oval
Indianapolis 2.5 mile oval / 9 degree banking in turns (almost rectangular in shape) :eek:

Indy has 12 degrees of banking in the turns and 9 degrees on the straights.

[RaceFanStan]

Even at that, Indy requires a special car for the race because it isn't like anywhere else. :eek:

BTW, you better tell Indianapolis because they say :
Q. What is the degree of banking in the turns?
A. Each of the four turns on the oval is banked at exactly 9 degrees, 12 minutes, the same dimensions as when the track opened in 1909.
http://www.indy500.com/faq/

[Jonesi]

4. ROAD COURSES (1 has has more left handers & the other has more right handers)
Sonoma 1.99 mile
Watkins Glen 2.45 mile


They are both clockwise, which one has more lefts?

[Lee Roy]

They are both clockwise, which one has more lefts?

Don't know. I just heard this one time when they were talking about some teams having a separate car for each road course.

[harvick#1]

I think its because Sonoma is a Technical course, while Watkins Glen is a fast sweeping Road Course.

[edlalu]

I understand the differences in tracks. My point is that part of the set up of a race vehicle is adjusting your car to meet track conditions. MotoGP (the motorcycles I follow) teams are made of one or two riders who will have a primary and backup bike. Some teams have more money (read factory's or sponsor's money) but its always two bikes.
Having one car for each or nearly all the tracks in the season would seem to negate all the prep of a race weekend to fine tuning.
My questions to you are:
How many teams have more than say 10 cars in thier stable for a single driver?
Is this fair to the teams with the more traditional alotment of primary and backup car?
Does this reduce the competative spirit of the serise?
One of the things I hear from my friends who follow NASCAR is the history and tradition of the sport. But didn't the bootleggers use to say "run what'cha brung"? Just because someone has more money than the pentagon to throw into race cars, should they be allowed to?

[harvick#1]

My questions to you are:
How many teams have more than say 10 cars in thier stable for a single driver?
Is this fair to the teams with the more traditional alotment of primary and backup car?
Does this reduce the competative spirit of the serise?
One of the things I hear from my friends who follow NASCAR is the history and tradition of the sport. But didn't the bootleggers use to say "run what'cha brung"? Just because someone has more money than the pentagon to throw into race cars, should they be allowed to?

I think every team has more than 10 cars for 1 driver.

[Lee Roy]

I understand the differences in tracks. My point is that part of the set up of a race vehicle is adjusting your car to meet track conditions. MotoGP (the motorcycles I follow) teams are made of one or two riders who will have a primary and backup bike. Some teams have more money (read factory's or sponsor's money) but its always two bikes.
Having one car for each or nearly all the tracks in the season would seem to negate all the prep of a race weekend to fine tuning. ?

Since in NASCAR you are allowed to build your own cars, they are able to optimize the car during construction for a particular track, or tracks. They can then fine tune the set up at the track.


My questions to you are:

How many teams have more than say 10 cars in thier stable for a single driver??

Don't know. But I think that most of them do.


Is this fair to the teams with the more traditional alotment of primary and backup car??

All racing series have the haves and have-nots.


Does this reduce the competative spirit of the serise??

No. I actually think it makes it more competitive. NASCAR is one of those series where the teams are allowed to build the cars and engines. This means that the teams compete to build a better "mousetrap" as well as competition between the drivers.


One of the things I hear from my friends who follow NASCAR is the history and tradition of the sport. But didn't the bootleggers use to say "run what'cha brung"? Just because someone has more money than the pentagon to throw into race cars, should they be allowed to?

First, the boot-legger stuff is over 50 years old, not really applicable to todays NASCAR. Second, as I said before, all racing series have the haves and have-nots.

[Jonesi]

I think every team has more than 10 cars for 1 driver.

I don't think it that its that much, although 10 cars per team average is probably close. The champ contenders are probably 16-18, mid pack about 10-12, the low buck teams are probably 4-6, and those partial season cars 2-3. Last year Robby Gordon had to buy someones used chassis on a type he was short. He said then he only had 6-7 cars.
This year the numbers are probably a lot higher with surplus cars which used to run the CoT tracks sitting around. (They can only sell so many to the West & North series teams.)

[slorydn1]

Yes. Most of the top NASCAR teams have a primary car and a back-up car for the different types of tracks.

Some of the different track styles are:

Super-speedways like Daytona & Talladega
Short track cars
1 1/2 mile tracks
The concrete surfaced track at Dover
Flat tracks (New Hampshire & Phoenix)
Some even have seperate cars for the two road courses, since one is primarily left hand turns and the other is primarily right hand turns.

And there are other variations that are taken into consideration.

Ya left one out... Some teams run different cars at Daytona than they do at Talladega, because the Daytona cars need a little touch of downforce built into them because of handling issues whearas 'Dega is all about speed and how slick can you get the body....Harvick was quoted as saying that losing his Daytona 500 winner to Daytona USA was no big deal as they were building a new car specificly for 'dega anyway, and that he would miss his 500 car at Daytona in July! That means they'll be building him a brand new car to use once, at dega, then maybe as his back up car at Daytona in July (if they use his Bud Shootout car for the 400, or will they build him a new one for that, too?!?!)...'Cause in the fall at 'dega they will be running the COT....

[Cole_Trickle]

I think Pocono and Indy use the same cars, that or different cars set up slightly differently.

[edlalu]

[quote Lee Roy]

"No. I actually think it makes it more competitive. NASCAR is one of those series where the teams are allowed to build the cars and engines. This means that the teams compete to build a better "mousetrap" as well as competition between the drivers."


Care to make that 15 or 18 better "mousetraps" if you can afford them? Seems to me if you are allowed to (and can afford to) make a car for each individual race its more like spec racing then a series.
What does one of these cars generally cost to develop and build?

[Lee Roy]

Care to make that 15 or 18 better "mousetraps" if you can afford them? Seems to me if you are allowed to (and can afford to) make a car for each individual race its more like spec racing then a series.

No, a spec-series is like Champ Car and the IRL currently are. They are mandated to all use the same chasis (that comes in a box from the same manufacturer) and a single engine that comes from the same builder and tuner with no modifications allowed by the team. In other words, very little or no input from the team on the engineering and fabrication end.

In NASCAR, you're allowed to build a better car and engine (within the rules), just like in Formula One and other non-spec series.

[RaceFanStan]

........ What does one of these cars generally cost to develop and build?
A race-ready Nextel Cup stockcar costs about $135,000+ EACH
(from the ground up, including the engine)
Car Body & Chassis = $70,000
Engine = $50,000+
Labor to build = $15,000+

[BenRoethig]

[quote Lee Roy]

"No. I actually think it makes it more competitive. NASCAR is one of those series where the teams are allowed to build the cars and engines. This means that the teams compete to build a better "mousetrap" as well as competition between the drivers."


Care to make that 15 or 18 better "mousetraps" if you can afford them? Seems to me if you are allowed to (and can afford to) make a car for each individual race its more like spec racing then a series.
What does one of these cars generally cost to develop and build?

Spec racing is where you can do almost nothing to the car. NASCAR chassis are designed fromt he ground up from the team. the only other current series that allows teams to their own design is F1.

[RaceFanStan]

............Having one car for each or nearly all the tracks in the season
would seem to negate all the prep of a race weekend to fine tuning............
Sometimes fine-tuning the racecar is all that is required.
Many times I've heard a driver say, "The car was great off the truck !"
The closer the car is to being properly set-up, the less fine-tuning is required.
The big-buck teams have an advantage by having a fleet of racecars. :eek:
Like LeeRoy said, "All racing series have the haves and have-nots."
It's a fact that the "haves" start the race weekend with a big advantage. :D

[cgs]

i'd say around 18 cars per driver is about right for the larger teams such as Rouch Fenway, Hendrick, Gibbs etc. it does seem rather a lot though.

as for conmparing these to the bikes, each bike team may only bring 2 bikes to the race track with them, but they will likely have more bikes sitting in the race shop in case of the rider destroying the one they are racing that week. plus in road course racing (in all forms from bike, open wheel and tin-top), there are not as many differences in the tracks, whereas in NASCAR, there are a lot more variables. there are short tracks which require lots of support in the chasis in case of rabbing the waal, and areodynamics are not important. then there are the high speed tracks where drag is carefully managed and the cars are kept as light as they can posibly make them.

that is one thing that will change with the COT. the COT that Kurt Busch brought to Daytona testing was just a few weeks earlier tested at a 0.5 mile race track. the idea is that that each chasis is identical, each body shape is identical. it is just the stuff under the hood that changes. that is designed ot help the smaller teams who can only afford to build 3 or 4 cars and they will have more options over which tracks to go to. some of the part tinme teams currently may only go to certain types of race track because those are the only cars they have in their stable.

[Lee Roy]

I'll bet as time goes by, the big teams will have more and more cars.

[luvracin]

Spec racing is where you can do almost nothing to the car. NASCAR chassis are designed fromt he ground up from the team. the only other current series that allows teams to their own design is F1.


Don't forget Lemans racing, ie: ALMS, LMES.

[POS_Maggott]

I wouldnt say that all the tracks need different cars.

The tracks that you really have to look at are the 1.5-2 mile ovals. If a driver likes his car at one of those tracks, there is a good chance that he'll take that car to the other tracks of those sizes.

Kasey Kahne and Matt Kenseth were good examples of that last season. Kahne drove the same car at all the 1.5-2 mile races last season, they just had the setup changed over. That car won a lot.

Kenseth did the same thing, until his car was wrecked at Chicago, he ran that car at all the 1.5-2 mile tracks up until that point.

[RaceFanStan]

The fact remains that MOST big teams build 12 to 18 cars to race at the 22 tracks. http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/images/icons/tongue-anim.gif
I suspect Kasey Kahne & Matt Kenseth may have raced the same cars because their other choices were junk. :laugh: