Does barnhardt keep his job?

[SarahFan]

Some scuttlebutt going around that Brian was instructed to get the race in during the TV window and the call to go green came Bernard....

If so that might save his job

If not I simply can't see how he makes thru the week?

Thoughts? Discuss?

[drewdawg727]

BB has made it this far, don't think there is gonna be any large shakeup.
I really hope not, but I know a lot of people are upset, and continue to be upset week after week.

It really is hard to be an IndyCar fan sometimes.

[Chris R]

IF Bernard made that call, he needs a good talking to..... IF Barnhart made that call, it should be the end of the line - he might have done a decent job when if was the "b" league - but he has not cut it since the mergification......

IF they want a clean and concise TV presentation, they need to move to tape delay - even if only by an hour or two - then all they have to do is say "and they drove around the track under caution for the next half hour) and it fits nice and neatly into the tv slot.....

Honestly, I think it is time to consider that.... I am pretty happy to watch a race I know the results of IF I know the presentation is good and it offers a little more than a live presentation would have (more in depth coverage, a little more time on key race events)... I think we have reached a point that we know everything instantly and that the real thing TV can offer than NOBODY else can is a well orchestrated, documented and in depth coverage of the race even if you do not see every lap live (as long as they include all the important stuff....)

[SarahFan]

Although I'm not sure Randy and company know it .... IMO neither cotman or al jr are the right guy for the job ...


An equally pertinent question is who would replace him?

[Chris R]

Al Jr. MIGHT be - he might be the sort who, when given authority, uses it well.... I am not sure he is so effective when he is just a cog in the wheel..... I am not advocating for him - just saying he COULD be ok...... I know this is going to sound crazy - but Paul Tracy may be the man for the job..... if not him how about Derrick Walker??

Here is hoping there is a job that needs to be filled!!

[00steven]

I doubt BB will be let go. He's done it before and I'm sure this won't be the last bad call he makes.

[DBell]

Although I'm not sure Randy and company know it .... IMO neither cotman or al jr are the right guy for the job ...


An equally pertinent question is who would replace him?

I agree about Cotman and Al jr. And according to Miller, Cotman won't take the job. Al jr has, to me, shown a lack of character in some of his off track incidents. I haven't been impressed by the three in Race Control and think they should clean house.

The answer maybe someone who isn't a "name" , but just for playing along, how about Tom Kendell? I thought when he was on tv for CC that he had good thoughts on what is racing and what is over the top.

edit: Forgot to answer to original question. Yes I think Barnhardt will keep his job. I don't think anything will happen. It never has before.

[nigelred5]

STARTER for Chief Steward!!! LOL. ;)

[NickFalzone]

I have never been a big Barnhart hater. The guy has made some bad calls, yesterday being a prime example, but what race steward hasn't? On the other hand, isn't this like his last year in race control anyway? I thought I read something like, once the new cars get on track, Cotman will be the one in charge?

[FIAT1]

He should leave immediately for the good of Indycar .

[garyshell]

Have not watched the race on DVR just yet but two thoughts come to mind. If it was true that the pace car had to use its windshield wipers then BB should be FIRED immediately for starting the race. And it is true he caved to pressure from the TV folks, again he should be fired immediately. His first and only priority should be safety. Period.

Has anyone watched a reply, did the green flag drop on the restart or not?

Gary

[djparky]

what a joke- re=starting in the rain on an oval- that defies belief. even by Indy Car standards that was terrible

[slorydn1]

STARTER for Chief Steward!!! LOL. ;)

Gets my vote :p :

[slorydn1]

Have not watched the race on DVR just yet but two thoughts come to mind. If it was true that the pace car had to use its windshield wipers then BB should be FIRED immediately for starting the race. And it is true he caved to pressure from the TV folks, again he should be fired immediately. His first and only priority should be safety. Period.

Has anyone watched a reply, did the green flag drop on the restart or not?

Gary

<slo kicks himself> I watched the replay what seems like a hundred times, and I never thought to look directly at the flag stand. I do remember that it ws visible, and the flagman was waving it franticly, but I just don't remember if it was green, or yellow. :dozey:

[numanoid]

Some scuttlebutt going around that Brian was instructed to get the race in during the TV window and the call to go green came Bernard....



That is very hard for me to believe. There was a TON of time left in the broadcast to run 9 laps unless they were going to red flag it. Think about all the antics, including numerous interviews and replays before the TV coverage window came to an end. There is no way the race was in jeopardy of running outside the window unless they red flagged it. Based on the first "moisture caution" it would have likely ended under yellow.

Now had you said that there was outside pressure to finish the race under green and have an exciting shootout, I'd buy that. I think the only reason they even considered going green was to avoid it ending under yellow "for the fans." BB called it out 2 or 3 times in his press conference.


<slo kicks himself> I watched the replay what seems like a hundred times, and I never thought to look directly at the flag stand. I do remember that it ws visible, and the flagman was waving it franticly, but I just don't remember if it was green, or yellow. :dozey:

I missed it too, but I'm sure it was green. The flagman had the green ready and the command was given by race control (they played it in the broadcast.) The crash happened several seconds after the race control call for "green green green."

[DBell]

I missed it too, but I'm sure it was green. The flagman had the green ready and the command was given by race control (they played it in the broadcast.) The crash happened several seconds after the race control call for "green green green."

No, I just was watching it again and while the voice was saying "green,green,green", Danica has already started her spin and the yellow flag is out. It happened well before the start line and the flag was waving yellow before any car reached the start line.

[garyshell]

Then Mr. Servia was cryin' over spilt milk.

Gary

[numanoid]

Then Mr. Servia was cryin' over spilt milk.

Gary

Dixie too!

[00steven]

Then Mr. Servia was cryin' over spilt milk.

Gary

Correct.

[Wilf]

No, I just was watching it again and while the voice was saying "green,green,green", Danica has already started her spin and the yellow flag is out. It happened well before the start line and the flag was waving yellow before any car reached the start line.

It would be nice to know whose radio they were monitoring when we heard "GREEN, GREEN, GREEN! That wasn't race control, that was a spotter trying to get a jump for his driver. There was no green flag so there can be no change of positions.

Maybe we should let Robin and the spotters be race control because they appear to know everything. I like Robin's idea that Brian Barnhart monitors all the driver's radios. That would be a neat trick listening to 26 drivers talking all at once. All drivers hear race control, not vice versa.

It was ugly, to say the least, and the guy who made the decision owned up. It is unfortunate that the one driver without an axe to grind didn't speak up. Why has no one heard from Johnny Rutherford? He was the one race official on the track. :o

[DBell]

It would be nice to know whose radio they were monitoring when we heard "GREEN, GREEN, GREEN! That wasn't race control, that was a spotter trying to get a jump for his driver. There was no green flag so there can be no change of positions.

Maybe we should let Robin and the spotters be race control because they appear to know everything. I like Robin's idea that Brian Barnhart monitors all the driver's radios. That would be a neat trick listening to 26 drivers talking all at once. All drivers hear race control, not vice versa.

It was ugly, to say the least, and the guy who made the decision owned up. It is unfortunate that the one driver without an axe to grind didn't speak up. Why has no one heard from Johnny Rutherford? He was the one race official on the track. :o

I find it laughable that you think BB owned up to his mistake. He's blaming everyone else. But I don't find it surprising you would defend him and race control and accuse drivers of having axes to grind. Why the hell didn't BB demand to hear what the drivers are thinking before going back to green? I mean they are the ones who are out on track. How many clusterf#!ks does this BB have to cause before you think it may be time to replace him?

[numanoid]

It would be nice to know whose radio they were monitoring when we heard "GREEN, GREEN, GREEN! That wasn't race control, that was a spotter trying to get a jump for his driver. There was no green flag so there can be no change of positions.

Maybe we should let Robin and the spotters be race control because they appear to know everything. I like Robin's idea that Brian Barnhart monitors all the driver's radios. That would be a neat trick listening to 26 drivers talking all at once. All drivers hear race control, not vice versa.

It was ugly, to say the least, and the guy who made the decision owned up. It is unfortunate that the one driver without an axe to grind didn't speak up. Why has no one heard from Johnny Rutherford? He was the one race official on the track. :o

I think it WAS race control. It's the same "voice" we hear for the race start, the command to start engines, etc. It's the same "Voice" I heard on the RC channel when I was at the race.

I don't have it recorded anymore so I can't review it to be sure. Plus, my memory failed me earlier in this thread, but I'm still standing by it on this one.

[DBell]

I think it WAS race control. It's the same "voice" we hear for the race start, the command to start engines, etc. It's the same "Voice" I heard on the RC channel when I was at the race.

I don't have it recorded anymore so I can't review it to be sure. Plus, my memory failed me earlier in this thread, but I'm still standing by it on this one.

It sounds like the same voice we hear every race. I think your memory is correct.

[champcarray]

I was at the race and was as surprsied as anyone when the pace car pulled off and they queued up for the restart on lap 115. It was sprinkling and misting at the time.

[call_me_andrew]

He has to go, but I think it may be too late in the season to replace him.

And if I were to select a replacment, I would pick Danny Sullivan.

[DanicaFan]

Yes, he needs to go. He made 2 really bad decisions at the end. One was to restart the race with the wet conditions and two was to not count the restart and place drivers where they were before the restart. You cant reverse laps like that. I like Ryan a lot but Oriol should of won. What they should of done, after the crash on that restart, just run the last 5 laps under yellow and declare Oriol the winner and the other drivers fall into place how they were right when the yellow came out.

It's a black-eye for Indycar for sure. And I too, am disappointed in the attendance.

[garyshell]

Yes, he needs to go. He made 2 really bad decisions at the end. One was to restart the race with the wet conditions and two was to not count the restart and place drivers where they were before the restart. You cant reverse laps like that. I like Ryan a lot but Oriol should of won. What they should of done, after the crash on that restart, just run the last 5 laps under yellow and declare Oriol the winner and the other drivers fall into place how they were right when the yellow came out.

It's a black-eye for Indycar for sure. And I too, am disappointed in the attendance.

I agree with the first part but not the second. Apparently the green flag was NOT dropped, so there was no restart. "Green, green, green" is NOT the restart signal, the green flag is.

Gary

[Jag_Warrior]

Considering what a colossal goof this guy has been since Day 1, until someone figures out where he keeps those pictures of The Sisters doing whatever with whomever at the No Tell Motel, my guess is he has a job for life. What could he possibly do to get fired that he hasn't already done at least twice???!!!

[beachbum]

Yes, he needs to go. He made 2 really bad decisions at the end. One was to restart the race with the wet conditions and two was to not count the restart and place drivers where they were before the restart. You cant reverse laps like that. I like Ryan a lot but Oriol should of won. What they should of done, after the crash on that restart, just run the last 5 laps under yellow and declare Oriol the winner and the other drivers fall into place how they were right when the yellow came out.

It's a black-eye for Indycar for sure. And I too, am disappointed in the attendance.
You make valid points. It was such a WTF moment that even in retrospect it is hard to tell exactly what happened. The only point agreed by almost everyone was that moisture was still falling from the sky.

Restarting under those conditions on an oval was just nuts. There is no excuse for that.

[Wilf]

I find it laughable that you think BB owned up to his mistake. He's blaming everyone else. But I don't find it surprising you would defend him and race control and accuse drivers of having axes to grind. Why the hell didn't BB demand to hear what the drivers are thinking before going back to green? I mean they are the ones who are out on track. How many clusterf#!ks does this BB have to cause before you think it may be time to replace him?

Watch Brian Barnhart Post-NHMS - YouTube (http://youtu.be/hsHUVaPRMlA)

"It was an error on race control and clearly my fault."

I still find it hard to believe Johnny Rutherford, the official driving on the track did not object to the restart.

[Wilf]

I think it WAS race control. It's the same "voice" we hear for the race start, the command to start engines, etc. It's the same "Voice" I heard on the RC channel when I was at the race.

I don't have it recorded anymore so I can't review it to be sure. Plus, my memory failed me earlier in this thread, but I'm still standing by it on this one.


On the ESPN website they have the complete video of the flag stand and the green was waved two or three times followed immediately by the yellow flag. So the Green radio call was correct and I wasn't. :o

[numanoid]

No, I just was watching it again and while the voice was saying "green,green,green", Danica has already started her spin and the yellow flag is out. It happened well before the start line and the flag was waving yellow before any car reached the start line.

DBell, I found the highlights on Youtube and you're correct based on the TV coverage, but we don't get a solid view of the restart. When Danica spun Servia and Dixon had already passed RHR. In the wide shot of Danica spinning, you see the yellow going crazy, but the lead cars were already restarted. We never saw the flagman as the lead cars came around turn 4, which is where the green would have been out. I can't imagine the drivers gunning it under yellow and you clearly see everyone including Danica getting on it.

Here is a link.

IndyCar Highlights from New Hampshire - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pf00l3EgALU)

Go to 30:40.

[numanoid]

On the ESPN website they have the complete video of the flag stand and the green was waved two or three times followed immediately by the yellow flag. So the Green radio call was correct and I wasn't. :o

You posted this right when I was typing my previous post... Get out of my head.

Can you post up the link to the ESPN video? It corroborates my premise.

Thanks!

[libra65]

At 31:34 of the You tube video, you can see the flagman raise the green for a second then immediate starting waving the yellow again. None of the lead cars are at start/finish yet. As I stated on the race thread, I don't think N/H or Ganassi have a leg to stand on.

[DBell]

DBell, I found the highlights on Youtube and you're correct based on the TV coverage, but we don't get a solid view of the restart. When Danica spun Servia and Dixon had already passed RHR. In the wide shot of Danica spinning, you see the yellow going crazy, but the lead cars were already restarted. We never saw the flagman as the lead cars came around turn 4, which is where the green would have been out. I can't imagine the drivers gunning it under yellow and you clearly see everyone including Danica getting on it.

Here is a link.

IndyCar Highlights from New Hampshire - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pf00l3EgALU)

Go to 30:40.

Yep, good catch. I haven't had time to read this throughly, but Marshall Pruett tries to make sense of everything. What a mess.
AUTO RACING - INDYCAR: Loudon Rewind (http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/indycar-loudon-rewind)

[markabilly]

Considering what a colossal goof this guy has been since Day 1, until someone figures out where he keeps those pictures of The Sisters doing whatever with whomever at the No Tell Motel, my guess is he has a job for life. What could he possibly do to get fired that he hasn't already done at least twice???!!!

He just proves that in Indy car, it aint what you know, but who you know and how well you kiss ass

much as in everyday living......

[Chris R]

Yep, good catch. I haven't had time to read this throughly, but Marshall Pruett tries to make sense of everything. What a mess.
AUTO RACING - INDYCAR: Loudon Rewind (http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/indycar-loudon-rewind)

good read... what a mess... I did not realize the internal house was in such disarray.... I have to say, if this is how it is run and I owned a team, I would be hard pressed to invest my money in a new car etc..... This is a perfect example of yet another sanctioning body doing its best to trash the goodwill generated by the rich history of "Indycar" racing.....

[Mad_Hatter]

There is clearly an issue with transparency within the rulebooks and regulations enforcement. BB has not taken steps to address this given the many times where consistent leadership is all that is needed. He should either step down or partition some of his duty.


Wait, did he WRITE the rulebook?


"If INDYCAR wanted teams to use nacho cheese rather than ethanol, Rule 1.1C(2) could be invoked."

Found this quote from the article kinda funny though.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Watch Brian Barnhart Post-NHMS - YouTube (http://youtu.be/hsHUVaPRMlA)

"It was an error on race control and clearly my fault."

I still find it hard to believe Johnny Rutherford, the official driving on the track did not object to the restart.
Johnny probably likes his job and didn't want to hop on the radio and say "are you nuts?" I think Johnny should be replaced if he didn't say something...he shouldn't wait for BB to ask him if he see's rain on the windshield. He drove these cars when they had more power and turbo lag...he has to know the issues the guys behind were going to face...

This was the dumbest thing I have seen yet from Brian Barnhart and I thought I had seen it all. Will's photo flipping two birds was pretty much summing up up how I feel.....

[Mark in Oshawa]

Now after reading Marshall Pruett's breakdown of the events, I can say Johnny Probably was overruled. It is clear to me BB wanted to get a green flag finish in before the TV window closed. Was he pressured by Randy? I doubt it, but Brian isn't above tossing a few people under the bus while taking the blame. It is his call, and it is clear from the video that we were looking at a wet oval. We don't race on wet ovals......it is THAT simple! Why Brian cannot figure this out is beyond me....

[SarahFan]

Day 3 of the Brian watch.....still employed

[Mark in Oshawa]

Day 3 of the Brian watch.....still employed

I think Randy will wait until the offseason at this point....but if he doesn't fire Brian in the offseason, then he too needs to be replaced. It is pretty simple. The guy making the call in race control has to have the respect of everyone in pit lane. This isn't happening now....

[Chris R]

I think Randy will wait until the offseason at this point....but if he doesn't fire Brian in the offseason, then he too needs to be replaced. It is pretty simple. The guy making the call in race control has to have the respect of everyone in pit lane. This isn't happening now....

a good, decisive leader will do what needs to be done when it needs to be done.... IF he can get rid of BB but he waits, he is showing that he is most likely not the man for the job (and/or, that it is a job nobody can do effectively given circumstances we are not privy to)..... If he has the authority and support to do so, he needs to fire BB NOW. IF he does not, Randy needs to QUIT NOW because if he cannot fix such a fundamental problem, he'll never be able to do anything....

Personally, I am starting to think Randy Bernard's hands are tied and the quicker the IMS "cartel" gets out of the race series business the better..... CART had a pretty crappy business/political model - but they got the racing right most all of the time.....

[wedge]

If Tony Cotman doesn't want the job then who will?

[Wilf]

You posted this right when I was typing my previous post... Get out of my head.

Can you post up the link to the ESPN video? It corroborates my premise.

Thanks!

Here is the ESPN video which clearly shows the green before the yellow.Ryan Hunter-Reay wins rain-shortened IndyCar race in Loudon - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/racing/indycar/story/_/id/6861680/ryan-hunter-reay-wins-rain-shortened-indycar-race-loudon)

It occurs about ten seconds in.

Sorry for the delay.

[SarahFan]

Isn't there an open test at sonoma today?

Will barnhardt be there?

[indycool]

I'm a little off the mark about the appeals panel for the hearing this week. I don't have anything against any of those guys -- Gappens, Helmling or Stoops -- but I DO have questions about ANY racing rule book, which you might as well throw away because all of them give the chief steward the power to call 'em as he sees them regardless of what the rule book might say. I was an official in another sport for a lengthy period and in that sport and most others, rules are rules and no official has the power to override them and uses them as guidance to make his/her decisions. If officials from basketball or football were on the panel, they would look at the rule book objectively, forget the power, and rule. I don't know if racing people can do that.

[SarahFan]

Just read that during press conference this weekend Randy backed and supported Brian... And that they would be mounting a camera inside race control on the Baltimore weekend


I say .... If you back the wrong pony it might not be pretty

[Jag_Warrior]

Just read that during press conference this weekend Randy backed and supported Brian...


I say .... If you back the wrong pony it might not be pretty

That's too bad. I guess Randy isn't the man that I hoped he was.

Ya know, they can change the name and bring on new cars every other season. But until they begin acting professionally and cleaning out the deadwood and gold bricks, it will still be the IRL.

[Chris R]

Just read that during press conference this weekend Randy backed and supported Brian... And that they would be mounting a camera inside race control on the Baltimore weekend


I say .... If you back the wrong pony it might not be pretty

that stinks... I'd love to know what Barnhart does /knows to keep his job...... this series does not stand a chance until he is gone OR until someone crack the whip on him

[anthonyvop]

IndyCar CEO backs Brian Barnhardt despite losing confidence of the drivers
By Mark Glendenning Saturday, August 27th 2011,

IndyCar CEO Randy Bernard has said that the series' president of race operations Brian Barnhart has his full support, despite the controversy surrounding the finish to the New Hampshire race a fortnight ago.

Barnhart found himself the subject of widespread criticism after attempting to restart the race in wet conditions while the cars were fitted with slicks; a call that resulted in several drivers losing control and crashing.

He later took full responsibility for the decision and admitted his error, but the incident still left question marks over whether he could regain the confidence of the teams and drivers.

Bernard said that the rules would be revisited at the end of the season, but insisted that he has no intention of replacing Barnhart.

"A lot of people have come to me who are not happy with Brian Barnhart," Bernard said.

"I want to make it very clear that I am 100 per cent supportive of Brian Barnhart and his team. I think at the end of the season, we will re-evaluate the rulebook. I want to make sure that the rules in that rulebook are what the fans, teams and drivers want to see. And safety of course is a very important part of that.

"But I think that Brian has done a great job, and I complement Brian on the fact that he said he made a mistake. He didn't try to hide it. He came right out and said 'I made a mistake'. It's much better he did it that way than try to hide it. I'm going to do everything I can to support him."

IndyCar CEO backs Brian Barnhardt despite losing confidence of the drivers - IndyCar news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/94056)

So does he stay or does he "resign"(Wink, Wink)?

[SarahFan]

I don't think either sees 2012

[Wilf]

I don't think either sees 2012

Robin says;some people bow. Other's try to find out what happened. There apparently is an audio tape of race control. I wonder what is on it?

[SarahFan]

I think the plan at this point is or the family to put TG back in charge over the off season and his first point of biz will be to publically remove braining an attempt to win favor with the excisting remaining fanbase

[SoCalPVguy]

Now..... About TGBB... if there is a more incompetent inconsistent clown in racing I sure don't know about it. What a disgrace to ICS !!!! I guess if you are the 'crowd favorite' (cough cough franchitti cough cough) you do not get the same drive through penalty that lesser names get for the exact same offense... And then there is the after the fact penalty on helio crashout neves. But helio should probably keep his mouth shut otherwise TGBB might review the 2002 500 and make PT the winner after the fact.

[seppefan]

that stinks... I'd love to know what Barnhart does /knows to keep his job...... this series does not stand a chance until he is gone OR until someone crack the whip on him

He must go and the sooner the better. The series is making itself a laughing stock with race control getting it wrong, wrong and wrong yet again.

[Mum]

He has gotten too comfortable in his position and too buddy-buddy- with Dario.".its not nice to play favorites" He's running the series in the ground and this is peopple's livlihoods!

[bblocker68]

If Power wins the Championship, he's earned it by defying the odds.

Barnhart should apply to be Dario's agent.

[anthonyvop]

So let me get this straight....

When de Oliveira got stuck on track it was OK for Dixon and Power to continue racing to Pit lane, passing the stranded car in the process, then it was too dangerous so they threw a full course yellow?

The Boys in Daytona would be proud

[FIAT1]

Go Helio!!!!