All new Dallara "barbie dolls" must wear the same identical dresses next year!

[mac miller]

Well!... After whipping all of the "Charley Browns" in the third turn Vista, into a total froth, with promises of "all new look" bodywork kits, "Lucy" Bernard has, again, pulled the football, leaving them laying flat on their backs, by announcing that, contrary to previous promises, the new Dallara "Mr. Potato Heads" will all be using the same, hair, hat, eyes, ears, nose, mouth and moustache, until further notice.

After seeing the new car, my first thought was "Why did they bother". The thing looks like it came straight out of the 99 cent "Hot Wheels" bin at the local grocery store.

mac miller in INDY

[Dr. Krogshöj]

As Americans nowadays confuse rants with news, maybe you should host a radio show or a talk show on Fox News.

I was hoping to see different bodykits, too. However, if the delay is the price of keeping the car counts up and prevent teams from folding, I can wait one more year. Multiple engine manufacturers and a better looking Dallara already give me plenty of reasons to look forward to 2012. And the introduction of different bodykits in 2013 means that there will be a lot of excitement during the next silly season as well.

[SarahFan]

When will we see 238?

*Ken ducks and runs

[Hoop-98]

When will we see 238?

*Ken ducks and runs

Just use FIA measurements at INDY and you can have the 238!

[jarrambide]

As Americans nowadays confuse rants with news, maybe you should host a radio show or a talk show on Fox News.

I was hoping to see different bodykits, too. However, if the delay is the price of keeping the car counts up and prevent teams from folding, I can wait one more year. Multiple engine manufacturers and a better looking Dallara already give me plenty of reasons to look forward to 2012. And the introduction of different bodykits in 2013 means that there will be a lot of excitement during the next silly season as well.

Funny, I used to be the "if that is the price of keeping car counts up and prevent teams from folding, so be it" type of guy, but year after year I ended up watching a diluted version of the series I once loved until all that was left was a caricature of the original series I fell in love with, heck, I even ended up defending the quality of the last couple of Champ Car seasons, because I could wait one more year, imagine that, I was defending the undefendable because it was the price to pay to get the old AOWR I loved.

That was the thing, I said "one more year" 7 or 8 years, next year never came. :(

[00steven]

They will do it in 2013, calm down everyone.

[Chris R]

I have lost faith that they will do anything they ever say - Jose is right

[dataman1]

I agree with Jose. How many more years do we wait. Randy made a bluder on this call IMO. I just cancelled my plans to go to Vegas.

[FIAT1]

Problem with Indycar is CARTel. Wait for next two weeks maybe they will change their mind and keep old cars one more year.Stupid!!!

[EagleEye]

I agree with Jose. How many more years do we wait. Randy made a bluder on this call IMO. I just cancelled my plans to go to Vegas.

If you want 16 cars instead of 24, by all means complain about Randy's decision. But thankfully, Mr. Bernard has made a great decision which was based on the team's feedback.

The money situation and the low TV ratings, makes this a great decision. Those who depend on the series for their income, are very happy and support the move.

[Chris R]

If you want 16 cars instead of 24, by all means complain about Randy's decision. But thankfully, Mr. Bernard has made a great decision which was based on the team's feedback.

The money situation and the low TV ratings, makes this a great decision. Those who depend on the series for their income, are very happy and support the move.

i know you are right - but then they need to get their promises in line with their results - this is just continuing frustration......

[dataman1]

If you want 16 cars instead of 24, by all means complain about Randy's decision. But thankfully, Mr. Bernard has made a great decision which was based on the team's feedback.

The money situation and the low TV ratings, makes this a great decision. Those who depend on the series for their income, are very happy and support the move.

I thought that the objections was that not everyone could afford multiple sets of aero packages. I thought the Dallara came with their set of aero kits and if you wanted to run someone else's package you paid extra. If I am on the correct path then the added cost would be there only if you bought into another package.

[EagleEye]

I thought that the objections was that not everyone could afford multiple sets of aero packages. I thought the Dallara came with their set of aero kits and if you wanted to run someone else's package you paid extra. If I am on the correct path then the added cost would be there only if you bought into another package.

Everyone buys the the base Dallara, which includes the standard body kits. The plan was to introduce new body kits at Indy. So, just 1/4 of the way into the season, those who paid for new cars would have to buy new kits.

RB really wanted to have the kits from the get go, but a show of hands at a recent meetign with owners indicated that less than 16 entries would be possible. That reality, shifted the plan.

As is there should be 24 entries full time in the series.

Penske/Ilmor-2
Ganassi/HPD-4
AA/ILmor or Judd-2
Foyt/HPD-2
NH/TBD-2
KV/TBD-2
Panther/TBD-2
SSM/HPD-2
DCR/TBD-2
HVM/TBD-1
Conquest/TBD-1
SFR/TBD-1
Herta/TBD-1

[Hoop-98]

Thanks for the Info EE!

[Mark in Oshawa]

AS usual, Eagle Eye talks people off the ledge with a few facts.

I heard about it and I saw it coming. To go to a new car in a series where many of the teams are still trying to make it through the season is a tough call. First stage is getting the new tubs on the track, second stage is opening up the competition in different bodies. You all have to know that Roger Penske and Chip Ganassi are chomping at the bit to get their cars into a wind tunnel with different parts and try to find something extra.....this wont be the status quo for any more than a year or so. Survival is the goal right now.....

[mac miller]

AS usual, Eagle Eye talks people off the ledge with a few facts.


Actually, the "facts" are that this guy, Bernard, gets the "fans in the stands" all worked up with a lot of promises and, then, can't deliver.

[EagleEye]

Actually, the "facts" are that this guy, Bernard, gets the "fans in the stands" all worked up with a lot of promises and, then, can't deliver.

Had TV rating gone up, and the teams were able to secure more $$, then this would have been in place. I do not recall it being a "promise", more than a plan. Not sure what business you are in, but plans change.

If you would prefer 16 or less cars at each race, but body kits, then you are in the minority.

The thing that makes Randy great, are that he has plans and contigency plans in place. This decision can't be placed at his feet, as he simply followed what made sense. Remember, one option was to use the current chassis one more year.

In the past when I presented negative factss people said I was a "doom and gloomer". The only doom and gloom is the TV ratings, which might not imporve as we head into football season.

From a team and series standpoint, this was the best decision for all. I won't discuss this past weekends race until after the 22nd.

I left out DR by mistake;

DR-2/TBD
Penske/Ilmor-2
Ganassi/HPD-4
AA/ILmor or Judd-2
Foyt/HPD-2
NH/TBD-2
KV/TBD-2
Panther/TBD-2
SSM/HPD-2
DCR/TBD-2
HVM/TBD-1
Conquest/TBD-1
SFR/TBD-1
Herta/TBD-1

[SarahFan]

Andretti down to 2 cars in 2012?

[SarahFan]

Penske only 2 in 2012?

[EagleEye]

Penske only 2 in 2012?

And Andretti.

$$

Power stays, and they will have a second car but they certainly could stay remain a three car team if they land a big sponsor.

Andretti is loosing GoDaddy, and the princess. That is a huge chunk of money. Marco and RHR. Of course, if some one writes a big check, than anything can change. They will not be going with HPD either. They will be Judd or GM.

[Chris R]

Both Andretti and Penske have dead weight they need to trim..... I am nto sure who will lose out - I am guessing we will see Power and Helio at Penske and Andretti will keep Andretti and who ever brings a sponsor....

[SarahFan]

Interesting AA won't be with Honda..... Weren't they the Honda golden child's back during their championship years?

And I wouldnt be so sure it's hello over briscoe.....I'd say that's 50/50

[jimispeed]

" I do not recall it being a "promise", more than a plan. Not sure what business you are in, but plans change."

Couldn't Indycar have put something in place a few years ago giving all teams a required account to put in to so that all teams had an easier go of it?

Successful businesses usually plan way ahead financial in order to see things through.

[numanoid]

Interesting AA won't be with Honda..... Weren't they the Honda golden child's back during their championship years?

And I wouldnt be so sure it's hello over briscoe.....I'd say that's 50/50

Doubt it. Neither have done very well this year and Helio brings the fans. Fans bring the money. The 2 fan favorites, without a doubt, are TK and Helio.

Helio needs to get his personal life straightened out and get back to racing.

[Chris R]

" I do not recall it being a "promise", more than a plan. Not sure what business you are in, but plans change."

Couldn't Indycar have put something in place a few years ago giving all teams a required account to put in to so that all teams had an easier go of it?

Successful businesses usually plan way ahead financial in order to see things through.

jimi - Successful businesses USED to plan ahead financially - with everyone having a hand in your pocket - especially the gov't and insurance companies it is nearly impossible to save for a rainy day or future capital expenses. Also, given the volatility in gov't rules and regulation, the financial markets, and in a sport such as Indycar (especially when it is run by idiots like BB) - it is both difficult and no always advisable to sacrifice current performance for long term plans (when you have very little faith that he long term you are planning for will turn out in the way you plan). Today it is more like "wing it and pray for the best" - - not at all a good way to do thing but something that our culture in general basically encourages......

[Chris R]

Doubt it. Neither have done very well this year and Helio brings the fans. Fans bring the money. The 2 fan favorites, without a doubt, are TK and Helio.

Helio needs to get his personal life straightened out and get back to racing.

pretty much my thoughts - Briscoe might be a better long term choice - but Helio is a better right now choice for the reasons you cited.... Penske is not likely to let go of a 3 time Indy winner who can still deliver a 4th o 4th and maybe even 5th win.....

[00steven]

My guess is that Andretti will go to chevy. I also agree that Helio will stay with Penske simply for his chance at Indy. Otherwise, he would be cut in an instant.

[SarahFan]

Helio will help land a sponsor... If they dont I think you see briscoe

[Marbles]

Helio left a smudge on the Penske sheen. Briscoe has been going downhill since day one. Toss up but advantage goes to Helio for delivering Indy 500s. All Penske needs is Power and both are gone if something better comes along for a number two.

A two car team is still one car too many for Andretti. Honda money and Green's handy work are a distant memory. Success = fluke.

[jarrambide]

If you want 16 cars instead of 24, by all means complain about Randy's decision. But thankfully, Mr. Bernard has made a great decision which was based on the team's feedback.

The money situation and the low TV ratings, makes this a great decision. Those who depend on the series for their income, are very happy and support the move.

Necessary does not equal great, this was probably a necessary decision, when you have to do something out of necessity, you can hardly call it a great decision.

My point is that I have seen this for years, and years, and years, CART, Champcar, IRL, Indycar, fans trying to convince others and themselves that measures made to survive were great measures.

The problem with being on surviving mode is that you can have all the plans you want, you end up postponing them again and again and then you end up modifying those plans because you can only implement a small part of it, I'm not going to lie to you, I was guilty of this for years, now I just don't believe anything or anyone, once upon a time I would reschedule everything to watch AOWR, now I use my DVR for AOWR but keep on watching every F1 race live (except the couple of races on network TV).

[EagleEye]

Necessary does not equal great, this was probably a necessary decision, when you have to do something out of necessity, you can hardly call it a great decision.

My point is that I have seen this for years, and years, and years, CART, Champcar, IRL, Indycar, fans trying to convince others and themselves that measures made to survive were great measures.

The problem with being on surviving mode is that you can have all the plans you want, you end up postponing them again and again and then you end up modifying those plans because you can only implement a small part of it, I'm not going to lie to you, I was guilty of this for years, now I just don't believe anything or anyone, once upon a time I would reschedule everything to watch AOWR, now I use my DVR for AOWR but keep on watching every F1 race live (except the couple of races on network TV).

Your response touched a nerve, and I thought you might have a clue. You don't.

This is a GREAT decision becasue if he stuck to the plan of having body kits introduced after Indy, the number of full time cars would have been around 16/race. Why is that such a big deal, having 8 less cars. Here is why:

Eight less cars:

8 less race engineers
8 less DAGS
8 less CC's
32 less mechanics (4/car)
8 less truck drivers/Tire guys
8 less engine MFGR support techs
20 less employed by Dallara, Brembo, AP, Emco, Xtrac, etc.
8 less IRL techs
8 Drivers out of work

At least 108 people, all out of work for the sake of making the same car, look different.

For those who work in the sport, it was a GREAT decision. With all due respect to the fans who wanted to see different body work, this move helped keep people employed. The car count should be around 24, which is very good given the economy, and low TV ratings.

I'm going to make sure I hug RB next time I see him, and thank him for making a very difficult, yet GREAT decision.

For 2012 you will have three engine manufacturers and hopefully 24 or more cars at each race. Each engine will sound a bit different, and all will have turbos! The new engine formula provides a steady platform to build on. And then in 2013, body kits will provide the same car, to look different.

[SarahFan]

I'm with Jose ...

[DiverDown]

Your response touched a nerve, and I thought you might have a clue. You don't.

This is a GREAT decision becasue if he stuck to the plan of having body kits introduced after Indy, the number of full time cars would have been around 16/race. Why is that such a big deal, having 8 less cars. Here is why:

Eight less cars:

8 less race engineers
8 less DAGS
8 less CC's
32 less mechanics (4/car)
8 less truck drivers/Tire guys
8 less engine MFGR support techs
20 less employed by Dallara, Brembo, AP, Emco, Xtrac, etc.
8 less IRL techs
8 Drivers out of work

At least 108 people, all out of work for the sake of making the same car, look different.

For those who work in the sport, it was a GREAT decision. With all due respect to the fans who wanted to see different body work, this move helped keep people employed. The car count should be around 24, which is very good given the economy, and low TV ratings.

I'm going to make sure I hug RB next time I see him, and thank him for making a very difficult, yet GREAT decision.

For 2012 you will have three engine manufacturers and hopefully 24 or more cars at each race. Each engine will sound a bit different, and all will have turbos! The new engine formula provides a steady platform to build on. And then in 2013, body kits will provide the same car, to look different.

I know this helped us out, big time. So very glad Mr. Bernard listened to those who work each weekend at the races, instead those that just complain and get fat on the couch.

[SarahFan]

What's it say when those of us just sitting getting fat on the couch turn the channel

[anthonyvop]

Your response touched a nerve, and I thought you might have a clue. You don't.

This is a GREAT decision becasue if he stuck to the plan of having body kits introduced after Indy, the number of full time cars would have been around 16/race. Why is that such a big deal, having 8 less cars. Here is why:

Eight less cars:

8 less race engineers
8 less DAGS
8 less CC's
32 less mechanics (4/car)
8 less truck drivers/Tire guys
8 less engine MFGR support techs
20 less employed by Dallara, Brembo, AP, Emco, Xtrac, etc.
8 less IRL techs
8 Drivers out of work

At least 108 people, all out of work for the sake of making the same car, look different.

For those who work in the sport, it was a GREAT decision. With all due respect to the fans who wanted to see different body work, this move helped keep people employed. The car count should be around 24, which is very good given the economy, and low TV ratings.

I'm going to make sure I hug RB next time I see him, and thank him for making a very difficult, yet GREAT decision.
.

So according to you we should like and celebrate a series because it didn't lay off people and not for a better product?

I see it as a desperate attempt to provide life support to inefficient, unprofitable and poorly managed businesses.

[Lousada]

Your response touched a nerve, and I thought you might have a clue. You don't.


If nobody's watching, those 108 people will be out of a job anyway...

[Chris R]

IF (and that is a big IF) they actually use the new platform as intended in 2013 AND this gets teams to the point they can do that it MIGHt be a great decision. IF they maek the same excuse again next year and the year after that, it will have been a terrible decision - only time will tell.....

Someone said it a few posts back - this is likely a NECESSARY decision - and value judgement must be held until a future date......

Personally, I think BB is actually the bigger threat to the series right now..... if they don't get that turkey out of the way, NOBODY in any team is going to put themselves out on a limb to make this work (and the more I think about it, he may be a big part of the reason the team do not want change - can you imagine this guys dealing with "different" cars?? yikes - a bad head official could nickel and dime (with the occasional $20) the teams to death in half a season or less.....

We keep looking at this for a strictly financial point of view - but what if the teams just don't have faith in the series to "do it right" and therefore don't want to make the investment??? This is the most compelling reason for Randy to get rid of BB..... (I hope he is reading an agrees with my logic!!)......

[EagleEye]

What's it say when those of us just sitting getting fat on the couch turn the channel

No doubt, the series needs as many fans as possible. However, the majority want more cars mixing it up, then less cars that look different.

You are in the minority, as most would prefer bigger car counts and more teams, then less with body kits.

And I would bet you money that if someone made a similar decsion that prevented your job from being eliminated, you would be happy with that decision.

[EagleEye]

Thanks Diver. How did it go and will you be at Sonoma?

[SarahFan]

Sure.... But that doesn't change the fact the sport continues to over promise and under deliver

Jose is 100% spot on that this is just another case in a lOng line of the same

I'm glad you will be employed in 2012.....
No doubt, the series needs as many fans as possible. However, the majority want more cars mixing it up, then less cars that look different.

You are in the minority, as most would prefer bigger car counts and more teams, then less with body kits.

And I would bet you money that if someone made a similar decsion that prevented your job from being eliminated, you would be happy with that decision.

[jarrambide]

Your response touched a nerve, and I thought you might have a clue. You don't.

This is a GREAT decision becasue if he stuck to the plan of having body kits introduced after Indy, the number of full time cars would have been around 16/race. Why is that such a big deal, having 8 less cars. Here is why:

Eight less cars:

8 less race engineers
8 less DAGS
8 less CC's
32 less mechanics (4/car)
8 less truck drivers/Tire guys
8 less engine MFGR support techs
20 less employed by Dallara, Brembo, AP, Emco, Xtrac, etc.
8 less IRL techs
8 Drivers out of work

At least 108 people, all out of work for the sake of making the same car, look different.

For those who work in the sport, it was a GREAT decision. With all due respect to the fans who wanted to see different body work, this move helped keep people employed. The car count should be around 24, which is very good given the economy, and low TV ratings.

I'm going to make sure I hug RB next time I see him, and thank him for making a very difficult, yet GREAT decision.

For 2012 you will have three engine manufacturers and hopefully 24 or more cars at each race. Each engine will sound a bit different, and all will have turbos! The new engine formula provides a steady platform to build on. And then in 2013, body kits will provide the same car, to look different.


Allright, go with the "if you don't think like me, you are clueless" response.

Did you actually read my post?, I wrote that it was a necessary decision, I'm betting that unlike me, english is your maternal tongue, so I'm betting that you know that necessary means that something is a required condition for something else to be the case.

With the use of that word I was accepting that the decision was required for the survival of Indycar, if I'm accepting that the decisionwas necessary, I'm accepting that the alternative would have been a very stupid decision, you and I are saying pretty much the same, which is, this was the only way to go right now.

The difference is that you are selling it as a great decision, I'm saying that when you have to do something out of necessity, it can't be call a great decision, it is the only decision, I have a mortgage, paying my mortgage is not a great decision, I'm not a genius for paying my mortgage, paying that mortgage is the only decision I can take if I want to keep my house, if I don't pay, they will evict me, I can't pay the full debt, so I keep paying my mortgage, I don't expect my lovely wife to applaud that decision.

You can't see this as an isolated event, but as the latest necessary decision in a long chain of necessary decisions over the years, this is just one more decision to survive 1 or 2 more years, this is just another promise of a better future in 1 or 2 more years, but all the other promises didn't come true, maybe in 2012 we will have 3 engine manufacturers and maybe 24 or more cars, and maybe in 2013 we will have body kits, maybe, but we have heard this many, many, many times, one day you just stop believing.

It is a good thing that many people kept their jobs, I am very grateful to have my job, it makes me happy to know other people kept their jobs, but don't sell this as a great decision for the series, again, I'm with you, I'm sure this was the only decision so that we can have AOWR in the near future, but as someone said in regards to your "with all due respect to the fans...." comment, without fans, the series will go away no matter what, but what do I know, I'm clueless.

[EagleEye]

Necessary does not equal great, this was probably a necessary decision, when you have to do something out of necessity, you can hardly call it a great decision.

RB really, really wanted aero kits. He wanted it very much in fact. But at the end of the day he listened to all the facts. More cars, not different cars, ranks higher among those who watch the series. More teams, more action on the track=good thing!



Allright, go with the "if you don't think like me, you are clueless" response.

This has nothing to do with "if you don't think like me, you are clueless". It has everything to do with making statements, when you do not have all the facts.

You have every right to want the same car, to look different. IF, you want that over having a full field, like SarahFan, then you are free to feel that way. The majority of the real fans want more cars racing. Last time I checked. a certain series racing the same car with decals to make them "different" was doing pretty well in the ratings. IF RB stood his ground, we would be running with about 18/cars to start the year, 16 afer Indy. If that is really what you prefer, I can not argue any futher. Try the SCCA, as they have several different cars running all the time.

A few hit the nail on the head, which is TV ratings. They remain very low, and have not grown as hoped. Penske is running a three car team with funding for 1 1/2. AA is loosing GoDaddy. The challenges remain, and with many race agreements having car count provisions, there was quite a bit more going on.

I have complained bitterly about things in the past, and I can understand some of the frustrations people are feeling now. I would love to have new cars every year like we did back in CART. That basically went on from the early 80's until about 1999. And due to the split (cuased by TG) CART went the spec series route jusat like the IRL.

But, there is hope. Engine mfgrs bring money, and marketing to the series. GM/Ilmor, Honda/HPD and Lotus/JUdd coming in for 2012 is a good thing. Turbo motors too! Body kits in 2013. If ratings were able to increase, and teams secured more money there could be a chance to have a new car or cars in the series. Ilmor is owned by Penske, so you could have Penske/Ilmors. Judd could have a car built by Lola, and Honda have one built by Swift. IF TV ratings go up, this is a possibility as are other scenarios.

Apologies if I was a bit harsh on you, as you have been a great contributor to the sport. It just really touched a nerve, because I do not think you spoke to RB or any of the team owners and manufacrturers.

[anthonyvop]

No doubt, the series needs as many fans as possible. However, the majority want more cars mixing it up, then less cars that look different.
.

Really? Then how can you explain the stagnant ratings and attendance even though car counts have been up?

[Chris R]

Really? Then how can you explain the stagnant ratings and attendance even though car counts have been up?

crappy economy, over saturated entertainment market, too many other thing competing for your entertainment dollar, less interest in televised sports in general (??), changing demographics of racing fans, hard to find tv programs, more people cutting back on their cable packages (thus losing Vs.) less people watching "broadcast" TV (ABC).....

A ton or reasons really - not saying Indycar is not at fault too - but there are a number of things beyond their immediate control that affect ratings....

I am in favor of car diversity - but be honest - do you think the casual fan can tell one F-1 car from the other if they only watch 6 or 8 races a year and have no other exposure to F1? all of those cars are "different" but really the rules make them very similar...

On a similar note, could those same fans tells a March from a Lola from a Reynard or Penske or Eagle during most if not all seasons?? They could easily identify with different engine maker because of the stickers - same goes for all the people supporting different sponsors....

I think car diversity is very important - but I think we are putting a bit more stock in it than necessary. Car count and a diversity of identifiable and likable sponsors and drivers is more important (and Indycar does not have that either.... )

I think both sides of this argument have some pretty good points.... It is bad that Indycar did not keep their word to the fans - but it may be worse if they did..... i am not happy about it and it diminishes my faith in the series yet again - but I suspect they had no choice....

[nigelred5]

It is only slightly coinidence, but NASCAR's ratings and attendance took a tumble when the COT came around. The COT advocates promised improved safety, better competetion, and more consistent cost by limiting development. We got a standard car, aerodynamic parity, tightly controlled aero development with multiple engines being teh only real difference outside of a set of different headlight stickers. (sound familiar?) The COT is still a bomb IMHO. There are certainly far more factors involved, but noone likes watching a series where every driver runs the same machine. Indycar needs to make sure that the new car doesn't produce crappy racing and that they don't delay the body kits and an eventual return to car development any longer than they have to.

[00steven]

Helio left a smudge on the Penske sheen. Briscoe has been going downhill since day one. Toss up but advantage goes to Helio for delivering Indy 500s. All Penske needs is Power and both are gone if something better comes along for a number two.

A two car team is still one car too many for Andretti. Honda money and Green's handy work are a distant memory. Success = fluke.


Well every driver except for Danica has won a race for AA. Are you calling that a fluke?

[jarrambide]

.................................................. ..

I think both sides of this argument have some pretty good points.... It is bad that Indycar did not keep their word to the fans - but it may be worse if they did..... i am not happy about it and it diminishes my faith in the series yet again - but I suspect they had no choice....

Which is exactly what I said, but Eagle Eye gets angry for some strange reason if anyone implies this was not a real choice because it was the only choice they could take and tries to sell this as a great choice, a touch of genius, he goes on and on about how RB wanted the kits so much but then in a stroke of genius decided not to go with the kits in 2012, but then says that this move saved a lot of jobs, that without this choice that car count would be diminish greatly, which is where he loses me, we seem to be saying the same thing, he had to do this in order to save the current state of IC, but then gets angry if you say that they had no choice.

[SarahFan]

Big difference between a great choice and the only choice

[EagleEye]

Really? Then how can you explain the stagnant ratings and attendance even though car counts have been up?

TV ratings, suck. But it is NOT becuase the cars are the same. Again, NASCAR run the same cars, bigger TV ratings.

Race attendance has been up, but that does not not help. It is all about TV ratings, and the ratings are terrible. But, they would be worse, if there were less cars running.