BTCC - Snetterton

[Allyc85]

What, no thread after a 7 week break?!

JP was fastest in Fp1 with the top 3 close before a largish gap to the rest...

Pos Driver Team/Car Time Gap

1. Jason Plato Chevrolet 1m59.797s
2. Gordon Shedden Honda 1m59.923s + 0.126s
3. James Nash Triple 8 Vauxhall 1m59.954s + 0.157s
4. Matt Neal Honda 2m00.511s + 0.714s
5. Tom Chilton Arena Ford 2m00.615s + 0.818s
6. Andrew Jordan Eurotech Vauxhall 2m00.691s + 0.894s
7. Alex MacDowall Chevrolet 2m00.778s + 0.981s
8. Dave Newsham Special Tuning SEAT 2m00.791s + 0.994s
9. Mat Jackson Motorbase Ford 2m00.926s + 1.129s
10. Paul O'Neill Tech-Speed Chevrolet 2m00.972s + 1.175s
11. Tom Boardman Special Tuning SEAT 2m01.101s + 1.304s
12. Martyn Byford AmD Milltek Volkswagen 2m01.119s + 1.322s
13. Frank Wrathall Dynojet Toyota 2m01.354s + 1.557s
14. Rob Collard WSR BMW 2m01.571s + 1.774s
15. Rob Austin Austin Audi 2m01.764s + 1.967s
16. Jeff Smith Eurotech Vauxhall 2m01.887s + 2.090s
17. Tom Onslow-Cole Arena Ford 2m01.911s + 2.114s
18. Nick Foster WSR BMW 2m02.493s + 2.696s
19. Tony Gilham Triple 8 Vauxhall 2m02.586s + 2.789s
20. Andy Neate Arena Ford 2m03.189s + 3.392s
21. Liam Griffin Motorbase Ford 2m03.542s + 3.745s
22. John George Tech-Speed Chevrolet 2m04.824s + 5.027s
23. Tony Hughes Speedworks Toyota 2m04.855s + 5.058s
24. Lea Wood Wood Honda 2m05.387s + 5.590s
25. Daniel Welch Welch Proton 2m06.104s + 6.307s
26. Chris James ES Chevrolet 2m06.626s + 6.829s

The new Proton did 5 laps and wasnt slowest!

Plato leads Fp2 as I write this!

[VkmSpouge]

The Chevies look on top so far. Alex MacDowall fastest in second practice from Jason Plato. Martin Byford doing a good job in the Golf in 10th place and only a second off the pace. Daniel Welch's Proton already ahead of Chris James and Tony Hughes, and on the same pace as Lea Wood. It is clearly a lot more ready for its first race than the Audi or either of the Toyotas were.

[RMLCruzeing82]

only Free practice and the turbos fans are moaning about the .300 second gap between the two chevys and the quickest turbo in FP2.

the noneturbo cars are not running ballast.

thing that is annoying me...turbo fans arefine with the turbos being .300 quicker then the none turbos but as soon as the none turbos are .300 quicker they have a moan and they called Plato an A**H*** for his moaning. what hypocriticts that makes some of you turbo fans.

now you know what us none turbo fans have been feeling and trying to make a point about all year.

ok rant over

[AndySpeed]

RMLCruzeing82 - What or who are you referring to? I am hearing or seeing no such moaning at the moment...

[RMLCruzeing82]

RMLCruzeing82 - What or who are you referring to? I am hearing or seeing no such moaning at the moment...

im refuring to ppl ive talked to on Facebook and at track side

[Allyc85]

Fp2 times...

Pos Driver Team/Car Time Gap
1. Alex MacDowall Chevrolet 1m59.025s
2. Jason Plato Chevrolet 1m59.063s + 0.038s
3. James Nash Triple 8 Vauxhall 1m59.336s + 0.311s
4. Matt Neal Honda 1m59.485s + 0.460s
5. Tom Chilton Arena Ford 1m59.491s + 0.466s
6. Gordon Shedden Honda 1m59.594s + 0.569s
7. Andrew Jordan Eurotech Vauxhall 1m59.739s + 0.714s
8. Tom Boardman Special Tuning SEAT 1m59.985s + 0.960s
9. Mat Jackson Motorbase Ford 2m00.030s + 1.005s
10. Martyn Byford AmD Milltek Volkswagen 2m00.078s + 1.053s
11. Dave Newsham Special Tuning SEAT 2m00.079s + 1.054s
12. Jeff Smith Eurotech Vauxhall 2m00.190s + 1.165s
13. Rob Collard WSR BMW 2m00.288s + 1.263s
14. Tom Onslow-Cole Arena Ford 2m00.517s + 1.492s
15. Frank Wrathall Dynojet Toyota 2m00.544s + 1.519s
16. Paul O'Neill Tech-Speed Chevrolet 2m00.988s + 1.963s
17. Nick Foster WSR BMW 2m01.273s + 2.248s
18. Tony Gilham Triple 8 Vauxhall 2m01.304s + 2.279s
19. Andy Neate Arena Ford 2m01.639s + 2.614s
20. John George Tech-Speed Chevrolet 2m01.925s + 2.900s
21. Rob Austin Austin Audi 2m02.004s + 2.979s
22. Liam Griffin Motorbase Ford 2m02.982s + 3.957s
23. Lea Wood Wood Honda 2m03.559s + 4.534s
24. Daniel Welch Welch Proton 2m03.562s + 4.537s
25. Tony Hughes Speedworks Toyota 2m04.617s + 5.592s
26. Chris James ES Chevrolet no time

Well done to Autosport.com who seemed to write the car numbers where the positions should have been :rolleyes: :D

Qualy is at 3.45!

[Allyc85]

Qualy now at 4.05 due to the event running 20 minutes behind schedule.

[AndySpeed]

Alrighty, to save Ally from having to copy and paste from Autosport again here is the rundown of qualifying times:

Timing Solutions Ltd Online Results Service (http://www.tsl-timing.com/?loc=major&season=2011&series=BTCC&event=races&source=toca2006&eventid=113103&table=113103qu1trg&tabletype=gif)

Or if you prefer a text-based format:

Touring-Cars.net – BTCC | WTCC » Results » BTCC » 2011 » Snetterton Round 16 Qualifying (http://www.touring-cars.net/results/2011/qual16.php)

Great pole for Plato!

[VkmSpouge]

Best performance in qualifying was undoubtedly Frank Wrathall. To be 7th place and less than 0.4s off pole is absolutely brilliant! I was so surprised by the time I was wondering if Wrathall had cut the final chicane :p :
In fact impressive performances by 3 of the 4 NGTC cars. Rob Austin only 1.2s off pole, his Audi is going very well at the moment and a good debut for Daniel Welch only 2.2 off the pace. Clearly the the Proton Gen-2 is a lot better prepared for the debut than the Audi or Toyotas were at the beginning of the season.

[Robinho]

great job from the Welch team, of course they know a thing or 2 about preparing cars and Dan is no slouch, but that was a very impressive car/driver debut in the series

[Allyc85]

Best performance in qualifying was undoubtedly Frank Wrathall. To be 7th place and less than 0.4s off pole is absolutely brilliant! I was so surprised by the time I was wondering if Wrathall had cut the final chicane :p :
In fact impressive performances by 3 of the 4 NGTC cars. Rob Austin only 1.2s off pole, his Audi is going very well at the moment and a good debut for Daniel Welch only 2.2 off the pace. Clearly the the Proton Gen-2 is a lot better prepared for the debut than the Audi or Toyotas were at the beginning of the season.

Agreed :D

Cant wait for tomorrow!

[Allyc85]

Todays timetable.


09.00 - Porsche Carrera Cup GB - Race 1 (14 Laps)
09.45 - Formula Renault UK - Race 1 (12 Laps)
10.30 - Ginetta Junior Championship - Race 1 (6 Laps)
11.15 - Renault Clio Cup - Race 2 (10 Laps)
12.00 - BTCC - Pitlane opens
12.10 - BTCC - Race 1 (12 Laps)
12.55 - Lunch Break - (50 Mins)
13.10 - Pitlane walkabout - (25 Mins)
13.45 - Ginetta GT Supercup - Race 3 (12 Laps)
14.30 - BTCC - Pitlane opens
14.40 - BTCC - Race 2 (12 Laps)
15.25 - Porsche Carrera Cup GB - Race 2 (14 Laps)
16.10 - Formula Renault UK - Race 2 (12 Laps)
16.55 - BTCC - Pitlane opens
17.05 - BTCC - Race 3 (12 Laps)
17.50 - Ginetta Junior Championship - Race 2 (6 Laps)

[MrJan]

Great to see Wrathall finishing 4th, and looking comfortable with it. Didn't see any post race stuff but suspect Matt Neal had a moan. I saw it as racing incident, at those speeds Plato was always going to end up drifting to that piece of tarmac.

[Robinho]

6 of one as usual, Neal was trying to overtake round the outside virtually on the grass and wanted some track, Plate was never going to yield, pretty much inevitable as both think they are bigger than god and when you put them in the same place they hit each other. Both deserve serial penalties as they are pathologically unable to admit fault or set an example to the less experienced drivers in the series

[Sarah]

Wish I was there...it's a lovely sunny day here, well done to Frank

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Wrathall for a podium in race 2?

[Allyc85]

At first I blamed Plato, but seeing it again its not so clear cut. he was lucky at the start though as his car moved a couple times!

Brilliant drive by Wrathall though, fingers crossed he can go even better in race 2!

[Sarah]

Pouring with rain here in Norwich at moment...let's see if it moves south

[F1boat]

As I expected, Chevrolet have a faster car after all the rule changes. Fortunately I missed the races. I am no longer a fan of the series and especially the way it's governed - for me Plato and his moaning ruined it and I think that it is good, as a fan, to share my opinion. On the other hand, I apologize if I have offended fans of the series, who continue to enjoy it - sorry.
I won't post in BTCC threads anymore.

[MrJan]

You didn't watch the race yet feel well placed to comment on it? The Chevvy doesn't look quicker, they've got it about right, just that a lot of the others have had a rough time. Jordan hasn't done well at all, Neal suffered after colliding with Plato in R1 and getting poor grid position in R2 and Jackson is currently leading R3. IMO your whinging and flounce sound far more ridiculous than Plato complaining about the turbos (which clearly had an advantage on the straights in previous races).

[BDunnell]

You didn't watch the race yet feel well placed to comment on it? The Chevvy doesn't look quicker, they've got it about right, just that a lot of the others have had a rough time. Jordan hasn't done well at all, Neal suffered after colliding with Plato in R1 and getting poor grid position in R2 and Jackson is currently leading R3. IMO your whinging and flounce sound far more ridiculous than Plato complaining about the turbos (which clearly had an advantage on the straights in previous races).

It still looks rather hard for the normally-aspirated cars to race the turbos, even on the basis of Snetterton. But things have clearly been evened out to something approaching the promised parity.

[Alfa Fan]

Would the BTCC be devalued if Mat Jackson is champion this year?

[BDunnell]

Would the BTCC be devalued if Mat Jackson is champion this year?

No. The reverse grid races aren't easy to win, and he is winning them in impressive style.

[Sarah]

and well done to Owy on his 2nd place. Looked like there are some good viewing areas now.

[BDunnell]

The circuit looked pretty good to me, though I don't like the new end to the lap, which has rendered Coram less spectacular than it was, and reduced the chances to pass into the chicane. The crowd looked very large indeed, and it produced good racing which was generally very clean. Has Jeff Allam already had an effect? Hard to say, especially as overtaking opportunities are reduced by the turbos still looking to have a slight edge over the normally-aspirated cars (in spite of what Gordon Shedden might have said).

Apart from the obviously excellent drives — all three race winners, Wrathall in the first two races, and Newsham, O'Neill and Neal in the third — it's worth mentioning Nick Foster coming through almost unnoticed to ninth in race three, beating his team-mate Collard by some margin, and Rob Austin's 10th place. By contrast, I thought the Team Aon Fords generally looked woeful, struggling to maintain positions in the top 10.

[AndySpeed]

Would the BTCC be devalued if Mat Jackson is champion this year?

You need to qualify well and show genuine pace to be champion, I believe. Mat's race craft is clearly amongst the best, but I'd like to see him win race one or two before the season is out as this is a championship to be decided also on overall pace.

Jackson has qualified no higher than 6th this year and the last time he qualified on the front row was 2009. It's not the car struggling for one lap, or qualifying pace, it's Jackson himself!

[AndySpeed]

and Rob Austin's 10th place.

Indeed, and his fastest lap in the second race. If it was not for a couple of spins he could have had a significantly stronger weekend.

Perhaps his comments recently about winning a race before the season is out aren't as crazy as they first seemed!

[MrJan]

The Aon Focus is an interesting one, on the face of it the old chassis is much better. In fact so much so that I was surprised that TOC moved back their, if anything I thought he had a better chance to shine in the Golf.

[focusfan]

new track to long so less laps it takes an age for the cars to come round and you dont see them as many times. however good viewing areas, 2 big screens and nice clean and tidy track.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

The Aon Focus is an interesting one, on the face of it the old chassis is much better. In fact so much so that I was surprised that TOC moved back their, if anything I thought he had a better chance to shine in the Golf.

They seem to be getting worse as the season progresses.

[AndySpeed]

new track to long so less laps it takes an age for the cars to come round and you dont see them as many times. however good viewing areas, 2 big screens and nice clean and tidy track.

Honestly, if that's all you're interested in then you may as well become a redneck and a fan of NASCAR. You're guaranteed to see all of the cars most of the time then, but the racing will bore you silly...

Referring to the New Snetterton - in the past where the Esses and Russell provided some of the best 'value for money' these have now been replaced by the spectator banks on the new section, where you can see the cars for more corners and for longer.

I'd also be pleased Snetterton has big screens now - I don't think there's ever been any of those there before...

[focusfan]

i watched mainly from the agostini bank, what about you?

[Andrew Webster]

They seem to be getting worse as the season progresses.

Turbo - Boost - Reduction....

The only thing the Ford had going for it was straight line speed, it was never on a parity with the Chevvy in the corners. Now that the turbo is wound down it's goodbye Mr Ford....

I see that Plato received a 3 point endorsement and £500 fine for his deliberate and dangerous move hitting Matt, in his interview afterwards he said Matt came round on the grass!! Matt was clearly faster, clearly on the tarmac and from the hit marks clearly pushed OFF the track. What is a shame is that the officials cant make decisions quickly enough to give grid penalties for the subsequent races rather than after event fines.

No turbo car pulled away from, or caught, a Chevvy in a straight line but the Chevvy was a lot faster around the corners. Looks like Plato for pole for the rest of the season and a manipulated, twisted final standings come the end of the season for whoever eventually wins.

[BDunnell]

No turbo car pulled away from, or caught, a Chevvy in a straight line but the Chevvy was a lot faster around the corners. Looks like Plato for pole for the rest of the season and a manipulated, twisted final standings come the end of the season for whoever eventually wins.

Equally, no Chevy (or BMW) pulled away from, caught or passed a turbo car in a straight line, as far as I could see.

[I am evil Homer]

So happy to see the DynoJet Avensis do well and Rob Austin show good pace in the Audi.

That Welch Proton looked pretty awful to my eyes.

[Andrew Webster]

Equally, no Chevy (or BMW) pulled away from, caught or passed a turbo car in a straight line, as far as I could see.

No but since the BTCC isn't about 1/4mile drag racing and involves corners the reductions have given Chevvy a clear advantage over a lap and crippled the likes of AON.

[Andrew Webster]

BIG congrats to Frank Wrathall and Dynojet, shame the podium didnt happen in race 2 but huge improvements in the car. Great to see the car up there at the front. Might have to sell TOC in my fantasy drivers league and see how much Frank costs :D

On a separate note how come the Toyota runs different size tyres than the other cars?

[Andrew Webster]

Interesting race times (12laps) for the 3 winners:

Race 1 - Plato: 24.12.064
Race 2 - Shed: 24.16.138
Race 3 - Jacko: 24.16.307

All 3 lead for the whole race and so had a clear track in front. The Chevvy averaged a 0.3 sec per lap better time over race distance.

[BDunnell]

No but since the BTCC isn't about 1/4mile drag racing and involves corners the reductions have given Chevvy a clear advantage over a lap and crippled the likes of AON.

Well, in that case, your argument is surely equally bogus? And how come it hasn't crippled the likes of Rob Austin and Dynojet, whose clear improvements in chassis, reliability and so forth would have been negated to some extent by the boost reduction?

[Andrew Webster]

Well, in that case, your argument is surely equally bogus? And how come it hasn't crippled the likes of Rob Austin and Dynojet, whose clear improvements in chassis, reliability and so forth would have been negated to some extent by the boost reduction?

Because their chasis improvements are huge compared to boost reduction loss. The Fords, Hondas etc are at or near the limit of chasis development and so reductions have a more dramatic effect as they cant be negated by improvements elsewhere.

[AndySpeed]

Well, in that case, your argument is surely equally bogus? And how come it hasn't crippled the likes of Rob Austin and Dynojet, whose clear improvements in chassis, reliability and so forth would have been negated to some extent by the boost reduction?

I'm not sure the boost reduction was applied to them - I think it might have only been applied to the S2000/NGTC runners?

AW - NGTC drivers are able to run larger wheels under the NGTC regulations, and thus larger tyres:

BTCC :: Dunlop MSA British Touring Car Championship (http://www.btcc.net/html/generalnews_detail.php?id=1489)

[Andrew Webster]

Cheers! How much bigger are the wheels/tyres and is it just diameter or width as well? Are they provided with tyres of the same compound (I assume they must be)?

[Brown, Jon Brow]

I think part of the reason we have seen Plato on pole for the last two events is because he hasn't been running success ballast in qualifying.

[MrJan]

Interesting race times (12laps) for the 3 winners:

Race 1 - Plato: 24.12.064
Race 2 - Shed: 24.16.138
Race 3 - Jacko: 24.16.307

All 3 lead for the whole race and so had a clear track in front. The Chevvy averaged a 0.3 sec per lap better time over race distance.

How much weight was being run by each car? Genuine question as I really don't know.


Because their chasis improvements are huge compared to boost reduction loss. The Fords, Hondas etc are at or near the limit of chasis development and so reductions have a more dramatic effect as they cant be negated by improvements elsewhere.

That AON Ford has never been anywhere near the limits of chassis development, it's a dog. The fact that last year's Focus is blowing it into the weeds is the clearest demonstration of this.

[BDunnell]

Because their chasis improvements are huge compared to boost reduction loss. The Fords, Hondas etc are at or near the limit of chasis development and so reductions have a more dramatic effect as they cant be negated by improvements elsewhere.

But, again, your argument can be applied against you, because exactly the same could be said of the Chevys and BMWs — and it would even be true in those cases, unlike with the Aon Fords.

[Tixy54]

Good to see the Silverline Chevvy getting beaten by Paul O'neils "Go Mobile" Chevvy. Can't complain about being beaten by that one, eh!

[Tixy54]

Well said, I couldn't agree more. Chopping and changing rules as the season progresses is ridiculous and, is grossly unfair. Alan Gow is trying to run three championships in one and it's not working. There should be one standard for all entrants and then, and only then will we get "parity".



I see that Plato received a 3 point endorsement and £500 fine for his deliberate and dangerous move hitting Matt, in his interview afterwards he said Matt came round on the grass!! Matt was clearly faster, clearly on the tarmac and from the hit marks clearly pushed OFF the track. What is a shame is that the officials cant make decisions quickly enough to give grid penalties for the subsequent races rather than after event fines.

No turbo car pulled away from, or caught, a Chevvy in a straight line but the Chevvy was a lot faster around the corners. Looks like Plato for pole for the rest of the season and a manipulated, twisted final standings come the end of the season for whoever eventually wins.


[/QUOTE]

[AndySpeed]

It's interesting how the opinions on parity vary wildly from meeting to meeting, and from team to team. Take these examples:

Olly Collins, Motorbase Team Manager: "With the strength of the Chevrolets this weekend though, it looks like parity may have swung the other way – hopefully TOCA will recognise this."

Marvin Humphries, Tech-Speed boss: "I think they now have it about right when it comes to parity between the normally-aspirated cars and the turbo cars and we are in the position we should have been in earlier in the season."

TOCA have an impossible task. I suspect some teams now use it as an excuse for a bad weekend in general.

[Allyc85]

We all no everyone isnt going to be happy but on lap time things look about right to me. Despite what Shedden was saying the turbo cars do have an advantage on the straights making it hard for the n/a cars to pass, but then the n/a cars are alot quicker through the bends! This seems to be having a bit of a negative effect on the racing as O'neil was stuck behind Jackson for far too long in one race!