Does the Kentucky Speedway really need a Sprint Cup race?

[Lee Roy]

NASCAR - JENSEN: What Now, Kentucky? (http://nascar.speedtv.com/article/jensen-what-now-kentucky/)


By now, the whole world knows about the debacle at Kentucky Speedway on Saturday.

By Bruton Smith’s own estimate, as many as 20,000 fans never even made it into the track for the inaugural Quaker State 400, which was won convincingly by Kyle Busch.

Eager race fans by the thousands spent six hours or more in traffic only to be turned away when they arrived at the track because there weren’t enough parking spaces to accommodate the crowd. Others simply turned around in frustration.

Some of you who have been around on this forum for a long time may remember the vociferous debates that occured on whether or not NASCAR should award a Sprint Cup date to the Kentucky Speedway. I used to argue that the yahoos who built this track were doing it just to make a lot of money and didn't deserve one. I think Saturday night proved that point. This track should stick with the lower level series that it's been running since it's beginning. I say, move the race back to Atlanta where the State of Georgia put a lot of money into improving access to the track. Maybe when SMI and Kentucky finishes building the ifrastructure for track that deserves a Sprint Cup race, then maybe they will return.

[00steven]

The problem with Nascar is that there are so many 1.5 mile tracks that produce boring racing. Kentucky is just another but, I thought it was one of the better "cookie cutters" I've seen this year. It's a very interesting layout for a mile and a half track and I do think it deserves a date on the calander.

But I really wish NASCAR would branch out some more, only 2 road courses is a joke.

4 Restrictor plates

6 short tracks

2 road courses

7 flat tracks

17 intermediate

In my opinion that isn't a lot of diversity and the truth is that the intermediate tracks generaly generate the most boring races.
But, they are in the "heartland" of NASCAR and must remain on the schedule. So say many...

[Lee Roy]

Actually, I find that the 1.5 milers produce some of the best racing. They're long enough for the cars really to stretch their legs but short enough to not need those damnable restrictor plates.

But the question is, does a track (whatever kind it is) that doesn't even have enough parking spots, and an area that won't invest in the infrastructure to get the cars in and out in a timely manner, really need to step up to the major leagues, or should they stay with the minors.

The fans have proven they want the race, now its up to SMI and the local and state governments to either get busy or get off of the pot. Bruton Smith is proving in North Carolina that he will twist arms.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Actually, I find that the 1.5 milers produce some of the best racing. They're long enough for the cars really to stretch their legs but short enough to not need those damnable restrictor plates.

But the question is, does a track (whatever kind it is) that doesn't even have enough parking spots, and an area that won't invest in the infrastructure to get the cars in and out in a timely manner, really need to step up to the major leagues, or should they stay with the minors.

The fans have proven they want the race, now its up to SMI and the local and state governments to either get busy or get off of the pot. Bruton Smith is proving in North Carolina that he will twist arms.

ok the point on the 1.5 milers aside, I pretty much agree with you Lee Roy. (1.5 mile races usually bore the hell out of me until the last 50 miles, but hey, so does Pocono).

In this case, if the old owners owned the track, I would really be standing up there nailing them...but I suppose I expect more out of a Bruton Smith enterprise. I am shocked they let things get that far out to lunch. 107000 seats should be supplemented by the parking for them. There is no town around the track, there is no reason parking wasn't built to accomodate. Bruton added all those seats and it bit him in the @ss.

That said, if anyone can fix it, it is Bruton. I think he if gets the parking solved, the traffic getting in is fixed. If cars have a place to go, you can keep things moving. He will need to get more roads out to the Interstate, and maybe a road that takes cars further down I-71. I have driven by there a number of times...and 2 exits would be enough if they are designed with extra lanes...but one extra lane on the Interstate with ordinary exits wont work.

[Jared East]

I think NASCARs secret plan is to build one cookie cutter and just change the logos on the side so people on tv think it's differnt race tracks lol. I refused to watch kentucky, Atlanta is normally a good race and Kentucky always sucks.

[Sparky1329]

I've never been to the track but friends of mine have been. They went to the truck races there and said that conditions for access were terrible even with smaller crowds. One friend predicted a nightmare if the track got a Cup race someday. Her opinion was validated on Saturday night.

Two other friends were at the race on Saturday. They said people who had tickets for seats in front of them finally arrived with 60 laps to go. They also said there were far too few restroom facilities as well as parking spaces. They called it a nightmare.

[Lee Roy]

. . . . . and Kentucky always sucks.

This was the first Sprint Cup race at Kentucky.

[Lee Roy]

I've never been to the track but friends of mine have been. They went to the truck races there and said that conditions for access were terrible even with smaller crowds. One friend predicted a nightmare if the track got a Cup race someday. Her opinion was validated on Saturday night.

Two other friends were at the race on Saturday. They said people who had tickets for seats in front of them finally arrived with 60 laps to go. They also said there were far too few restroom facilities as well as parking spaces. They called it a nightmare.

NASCAR should give SMI one more chance at Kentucky for a Sprit Cup race and if next year isn't greatly improved then tell Bruton Smith to pick another of his tracks to move the race to or lose the date/event.

[00steven]

I think it's pretty safe to say that there will be major changes at the facility next year. They will be fine.

[wedge]

The problem with Nascar is that there are so many 1.5 mile tracks that produce boring racing. Kentucky is just another but, I thought it was one of the better "cookie cutters" I've seen this year. It's a very interesting layout for a mile and a half track and I do think it deserves a date on the calander.

Completely agree. Most cookie cutters quickly bore but Kentucky has a distinctive layout and concrete to boot.

[slorydn1]

The traffic problem was an abomination...That said, if that was metric to judge if a race should be held then Michigan International Speedway would have been taken off the schedule years ago...
The race itself ended up being a snoozefest but I don't blame that on the track. I blame that on never racing the COT here before, then holding a full day of "testing" and then a reduced practice day due to the rain on Friday, not one single solitary second of which was held at night. Why Nascar holds daytime practices for night races absolutely escapes me. With all the bumps on the track, it was inevitable that 1 or two teams would hit on a set up and everyone else would struggle making for a snoozerama. At one point Harvicks car was handleing so bad that he told Gil Martin that he should take those Nationwide notes from the night before and flush them down the toilet (car handles way different with almost 180 more horsepower and bump-stops)....

I believe the racing will get better, as the Cup teams start develping steups to work at this track, and I wish they'd take a second date from somehere else and give it to Nashville, too....

And maybe a third tracks second date and give it to Road America, Mid-Ohio, Barber-somewhere like that.

And maybe....oh well never mind, you see where I am going with this. I dont want any of the existing tracks to fall off the schedule completely. I just would like to see a number of the second dates moved to tracks that don't have a first date....

[Sparky1329]

I recall there being a bunch of complaints about the track in the early days of Pocono Raceway. Access roads and restroom facilities were at the top of the list. The access road, Rt 115, is still a two lane from I-80 to the track but on race day they use the wide shoulder as a traffic lane so there are three lanes going into the track. They reverse direction after the race. Between the local police and state police traffic is controlled as best as is possible on both Rt 115 and I-80 but there are still delays. Local residents have learned to live with it twice a year. They were supposed to build a separate access exit off I-80 but I don't know what ever happened to that.

There used to be pit toilets - can you imagine - in the parking areas and porta johns all over the place. Dr Mattioli sucked it up and built the "Long John" inside the gates which is the biggest restroom facility I've ever seen. There's also a huge restroom building in the pit/paddock area for fans who have special passes for that area. Bruton and Marcus should schedule a meeting with Dr Joe and open up the purse strings before next year's race or they might never get another one.

[harvick#1]

I'd say Iowa Speedway should have gotten a race date before any 1.5 cookie cutter should have

[00steven]

I'd say Iowa Speedway should have gotten a race date before any 1.5 cookie cutter should have

Iowa does deserve a cup date.

[Lee Roy]

Iowa does deserve a cup date.

Why?

[DavePI2]

although I feel sorry for the fans at kentucky last week the blame should be put on the owners of the speedway. Too have them complain about traffic is a joke. That old freeway was there 40 before the track was built. Nobody forced them to build in that location. Too expect the taxpayers to pony up the money to make a freeway conform too their track is absurd. If the owners of the speedway want the freeway upgraded then they should have to pay for it. It is not unkown to do so. I work of ohio dot and we have had several road construction projects paid for with private dollars in the columbus area rather then exspect taxpayers too pay for someones profits. Furthermore traffic at kentucky has always been a problem. One reason I stopped going too indy races was not so much the freeway traffic but the way parking was handled at the speedway. Terrible terrible terrible. One last thing about traffic. MidOhio speedway just south of mansfield, ohio is out in the country off two lane roads. If you go up from columbus you have to avoid the amish. Getting in and out of that track is always easy and they put 60,000 in there for indycar sunday. Don't tell me I-71 at sparta being old is the problem. The problem is with the short sightedness of the ownership and their desire for maximum profit no matter who it hurts. The personal at kentucky are the worst at fan support and they have some of the worst track rules I have ever seen. Only one track I have ever been too(and I have been too a lot of them)doesn't allow camcorders, that is kentucky. Indy allows it, michigan, midohio, I could go on and on , only kentucky does not. I don't feel sorry for kentucky's owners and it would serve them right if they lost the race for that fiasco.

[00steven]

Why?

For exciting racing perhaps?

[Lee Roy]

For exciting racing perhaps?

First, says who?

Second, do you increase the schedule from 38 races to 39, or do you take a race from someone (SMI. ISC, IMS, the Mattiolli's), and who would you take it from?

[00steven]

First, says who?

Second, do you increase the schedule from 38 races to 39, or do you take a race from someone (SMI. ISC, IMS, the Mattiolli's), and who would you take it from?

Says me, it's more exciting than 75% of "cookie cutters".

And I meant someday in the future. And by the way, I would take it from Pocono. An unsafe track that should be 400 miles instead of 500 and produces (for the most part) boring racing. Double wide restarts are the best thing that has ever happened to them.

[call_me_andrew]

No Cup date for Iowa until Brian decides to run for President. Then they'll have 3.

I recently heard rumors of a 37th race. It would probably go somewhere warm to take up the gap in the spring schedule moving Daytona back to President's Day weekend where it belongs.

[Sparky1329]

Says me, it's more exciting than 75% of "cookie cutters".

And I meant someday in the future. And by the way, I would take it from Pocono. An unsafe track that should be 400 miles instead of 500 and produces (for the most part) boring racing. Double wide restarts are the best thing that has ever happened to them.

Pocono will not be losing a race. The track draws from too many major population centers and is too unique to take away a race. I would support reducing the 500 milers to a 400 milers. 500 miles is just too many for this track and the kind of racing that exists today.

[slorydn1]

I would support reducing the 500 milers to a 400 milers. 500 miles is just too many for this track and the kind of racing that exists today.

I'm inclined to agree, although I would hate to see it. I'm kind of a traditionalist when it comes to race distances at certain tracks. Then again, in all fairness, I was one of the loudest whiners when they shortened Dover from 500 to 400 milers and that actually worked out pretty well for hem, so maybe it is about time to shorten Pocono.

[harvick#1]

Why?

bigger question is why Kentucky got a date, 20,000 not even got a chance to go watch the race and were told to go home. what a well run operation :rolleyes: seems Sparta has the same problem Joliet has with Chicagoland as only one major exit will cause a serious log jam. one reason why I wont be bothered in going back to that speedway, even at half full, it took almost 2 hours to go a half mile.

Iowa is atleast a short track and would bring in more excitement than a boring 1.5 cookie cutter.

much like why Nascar screwed up by dumping ORP for Indy. talk about a disaster for next year

[Lee Roy]

bigger question is why Kentucky got a date, 20,000 not even got a chance to go watch the race and were told to go home. what a well run operation :rolleyes:

I agree. I remember several years ago on this board I used to have heated arguments with some people who were upset that NASCAR didn't immediately go running to Kentucky with a race. It was just a bunch of guys with at get-rich-quick scheme who felt they were "entitled" to have a Sprint Cup race and all the money that came with it. From the disaster last week, it looks like I was right.


Iowa is atleast a short track and would bring in more excitement than a boring 1.5 cookie cutter.

I gues you would like it since you seem to like wrecking more than racing.


much like why Nascar screwed up by dumping ORP for Indy. talk about a disaster for next year

I think that has more to do with trying to make the Brickyard 400 weekend more successful. I think that race is dying. . . . . and the sooner the better. I vote for moving the NASCAR Indy race to Iowa.

[00steven]

Indianapolis is not designed for NASCAR to race on. It's ashame that the NASCAR fans have to bash the world's greatest track because they don't like the racing that NASCAR has.

[Lee Roy]

Indianapolis is not designed for NASCAR to race on. It's ashame that the NASCAR fans have to bash the world's greatest track because they don't like the racing that NASCAR has.

Not bashing the track. I went to all but one of the USGP's at Indy and enjoyed every one and enjoyed being at IMS. It's a marvelous facility. But I do get tired of the profits from the BY 400 propping up the IRL and in return the IRL fans continually bashing NASCAR.

But you're right, stockers don't run very well at IMS. I think it's about time to call a spade a spade and move that race to another track. Iowa perhaps?

[Mark in Oshawa]

Lee Roy, separate your hatred of the IRL for the spectacle of the Cup cars at Indy. For years, it put on good races with Cup cars. The COT didn't suit it as well, but lets face it, Indy is a flat track and almost every other flat track outside of Phoenix doesn't always put on the show NASCAR fans seem to want. I don't get it. I would rather watch the BY400 than a race at Kentucky or Kansas or Chicagoland...

You are on the money about Kentucky. Too much was demanded, and too little was delivered. I thought Bruton Smith's group could fix what ails that track, but he left too many people from the old regime in places of control; and it bit him in the ass.

[call_me_andrew]

Those road courses aren't well suited to Cup cars either. Let's get rid of them! [/sarcasm]

[00steven]

Indianapolis is not designed for NASCAR to race on. It's ashame that the NASCAR fans have to bash the world's greatest track because they don't like the racing that NASCAR has.

Let me clearify, I love Indy (it's my favorite track) and think NASCAR most certainly should race at the world's most exciting track. But, fact is it wasn't meant for stockcars. I think NASCAR has been exciting there until the COT came along. The thing I really like about it is that the best of the best have succeded there and there have been no flukes in winners circle.

[harvick#1]

I gues you would like it since you seem to like wrecking more than racing.


IndyCar put on a great event at Iowa, its just like Richmond but seems alittle better overall as well. I'd rather see Indy be dumped and the Cup guys go to ORP, back to short track racing roots, but Brian France isnt the brightest mind in Nascar really.

and I like racing over wrecking, thank you.

[Lee Roy]

and I like racing over wrecking, thank you.

I think its already been firmly established that you like the wrecking better. Remember the discussion on Bristol? You stated that you liked it better before they reconfigured the banking and did away so much of the wrecking and cautions. I think you claimed that the racing at Bristol is now "boring".

[00steven]

I think its already been firmly established that you like the wrecking better. Remember the discussion on Bristol? You stated that you liked it better before they reconfigured the banking and did away so much of the wrecking and cautions. I think you claimed that the racing at Bristol is now "boring".

I gotta side with Harv as far as Bristol is concerned. The old Bristol had a certain feel to it, you knew that when Bristol came there was going to be some great battles and tight racing. Sadly, this isn't the case anymore. Even though my favorite driver dominates at Bristol, I still prefer the old Bristol racing much more.

[Lee Roy]

Another "wrecking" fan.

[00steven]

Another "wrecking" fan.

No, a racing fan who eats, breathes, and sleeps auto racing.

[harvick#1]

I think its already been firmly established that you like the wrecking better. Remember the discussion on Bristol? You stated that you liked it better before they reconfigured the banking and did away so much of the wrecking and cautions. I think you claimed that the racing at Bristol is now "boring".

yep, I'm a wrecking fan I guess, forgive I'm a fan and watch F1, IndyCar, Nascar, ALMS, DTM, AussiV8's, BTCC, Moto GP, WRC, and others. I sit at the TV or computer just waiting for wrecks because theres nothing more thrilling than that :rolleyes:

Bristol was Bristol, a bull-ring. now its just like every other track. It was great when Nascar used to be different, now the tracks are so similar that its become a bore. have you even read that Kansas is repaving their track to a progressive banking to be a bore fest like Homestead, when Kansas already weathered into a 3 groove race track :rolleyes:

[Lee Roy]

Bristol was Bristol, a bull-ring. now its just like every other track. It was great when Nascar used to be different, now the tracks are so similar that its become a bore. have you even read that Kansas is repaving their track to a progressive banking to be a bore fest like Homestead, when Kansas already weathered into a 3 groove race track :rolleyes:

Sorry that cars trying to outrun each other without beating and banging and wrecking each other bores you.

[harvick#1]

Not at all, I was on edge for the final 6 hours for the 24 hours of le mans race.

there have been alot more memorable races at the old bristol than any of these cookie cutters can ever claim. and alot of those races were run clean as well. the problem with the race being under caution all the time is Nascar's fault, for no reason a simple spin should be 5 laps of caution there.

[Mark in Oshawa]

The New Bristol isnt as bad as people make it out to be. Lee Roy is dead on the money. People loved the drama of the wrecks and how people had to nerf and nudge their way past. To say one doesn't, then is silly because the new Bristol allows side by side in the corners and at least allows a faster car to not have to have a chrome horn on the front to move on through.

That said, I will freely admit it seems like something is missing, but I am not so naive to recognize the best racing might be yet to come at Bristol......

[Mark in Oshawa]

As for Kentucky, this sums it up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhkiMZGyr9k&feature=share

[tstran17_88]

The traffic problem was an abomination...That said, if that was metric to judge if a race should be held then Michigan International Speedway would have been taken off the schedule years ago....
I've never had a problem getting in and out of Michigan...been going since 1998. Of course it's a hell of a lot easier now with 90,000 versus a few years ago with 140,000 people.


And maybe a third tracks second date and give it to Road America, Not unless they shorten the course...it was just about dark when the Nationwide race ended. I just wanted to get the hell out of there...the ending was pathetic.

And the track is in the middle of nowhere with limited access to the track. I'd wonder if they'd have the same problems as Kentucky?

[Mark in Oshawa]

I've never had a problem getting in and out of Michigan...been going since 1998. Of course it's a hell of a lot easier now with 90,000 versus a few years ago with 140,000 people.

I have talked to many, and Michigan has in recent years been easier to deal with, but it the horror stories around that place getting in and out are legendary.



Not unless they shorten the course...it was just about dark when the Nationwide race ended. I just wanted to get the hell out of there...the ending was pathetic.

And the track is in the middle of nowhere with limited access to the track. I'd wonder if they'd have the same problems as Kentucky?

The ending was NASCAR's attempts to get a finish under a green under their GWC rule, which of course takes time. Starting the race that late in the day doesn't help. It isn't as if it gets dark in Wisconsin in late June til 830 or 9...what the hell are they still doing racing on a road course at that hour ANYHOW?

As for the ingress and egress of Road America, they have had big crowds there before and managed. I think in Kentucky's case, two roads coming in and not enough parking. If Road America got the Cup series, you know there is tons of room for parking and camping, and upgrades could be justified for access in and out. It isn't any worse than Watkin's Glen as it stands now.

As for being in the middle of no where, it is as close to Milwaukee as Pocono is to Philly or NYC, and from there an hour or two into Chicago. Within 5 hours drive of Road America, you can be in Chicago, Indy, Milwaukee or any place else in Wisconsin and out to Minnepolis St. Paul to the West. I think if you used 5 hours drive as the standard around most NASCAR tracks, you would find few tracks that had as much population to draw from as Road America.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Just saw off a Facebook feed a link to Terry Blount's take on Bruton in New Hampshire. Apparently Bruton blames this mess on the Interstate, not that he didn't have enough parking, staff or essentials for the crowd. The man is obviously losing it. Humpy Wheeler used to keep this guy away from microphones, now we know why.

[DavePI2]

once again the owners can't complain about the freeway. they knew what they were buying into. The parking and access problems at kentucky have been well known and legendary for years. Once again, don't expect the taxpayers to pay for your profits. If you want a better freeway pay for it yourself.

[call_me_andrew]

Not unless they shorten the course...it was just about dark when the Nationwide race ended. I just wanted to get the hell out of there...the ending was pathetic.

That's the sort of issue that is resolved by starting the race earlier, not making the track shorter.