Aint Worth A Hill of Beans

[Rollo]

"Ilsa, I’m no good at being noble, but it doesn’t take much to see that the problems of three little people don’t amount to a hill of beans in this crazy world”.
- Rick Blaine (played by Humphrey Bogart) in Casablanca, 1941

As discussed in the 1995 film "The Englishman Who Went Up a Hill But Came Down a Mountain", a mountain is a hill which is taller than 1000ft; by inference a hill is less than 1000ft.
I have two questions:

1. What is the smallest height a hill can be?
2. How much is a 400g tin of baked beans in your neck of the woods?

My theory is that a hill of beans is actually worth a considerable amount of money. I wouldn't fancy climbing it though as you'd get Tomato Sauce in your socks.

[555-04Q2]

:erm: You lost the plot there Rollo :p :

[Dave B]

I have two questions:

1. What is the smallest height a hill can be?
It would depend if you are including hillocks in your definition, in which case pretty much any height you like. Exclude hillocks and I'd suggest you're looking at ~100ft / ~33m.

However, the problem you'd face is getting your beans to form a hill shape without a suitable container. They'd naturally tend to form a lake, rather than a hill. So maybe the movie needs to be remade or at the very least re-dubbed with the phrase "lake of beans".



2. How much is a 400g tin of baked beans in your neck of the woods?

If you were intending to use them for construction rather than sustenance I would suggest that you use Tesco Value, which are 28p for 420g, according to mysupermarket.co.uk (http://www.mysupermarket.co.uk/tesco-price-comparison/Tinned_Beans/Tesco_Value_Baked_Beans_in_Tomato_Sauce_420g.html)

I hope this helps your quest.

[CarlMetro]

Surely other questions would also have to be raised? Who is going to open all the tins? How much money will be made on recycling the said tins? What are you going to do with all the beans once the exercise has been completed? How long would it be before you could safely light a match if the people opening all the tins ate all the beans once the exercise was complete?

[BDunnell]

Surely other questions would also have to be raised? Who is going to open all the tins? How much money will be made on recycling the said tins?

There may not even be a tin can recycling facility in the vicinity, causing the need to transport the tins elsewhere, incurring further costs.

[Dave B]

Anybody care to work out the food miles involved, assuming the beans were grown locally to Rollo, and the carbon footprint of this exercise?

[Rollo]

My wife who is from San Diego has just said that she doesn't recall ever seeing Heinz Baked Beans on the shelves at all in America in her life.

Wow.

I would have thought that the little blue and black can was ubiquitous and they even say Beanz Meanz Heinz, so I find it very surprising that Heinz don't market Baked Beans in their home country.

[Alexamateo]

I would say your wife just wasn't paying attention. My mom says when I was 4 years old, that the only thing I wanted to eat for every meal was "pork-n'-beans and apple sauce." :)

[Daniel]

However, the problem you'd face is getting your beans to form a hill shape without a suitable container. They'd naturally tend to form a lake, rather than a hill. So maybe the movie needs to be remade or at the very least re-dubbed with the phrase "lake of beans".

You're assuming that they're baked beans though...... other beans without a tomato sauce could form a mountain surely?

[Daniel]

There may not even be a tin can recycling facility in the vicinity, causing the need to transport the tins elsewhere, incurring further costs.

Or we could just incinerate them. I don't want the incinerator near me though. Thanks.

[schmenke]

Tin is easier recycled though, so I think we should opt for the increased transportation costs.

(Good movie, btw. One of my all-time favourites :) )

[Rollo]

It would depend if you are including hillocks in your definition, in which case pretty much any height you like. Exclude hillocks and I'd suggest you're looking at ~100ft / ~33m.

However, the problem you'd face is getting your beans to form a hill shape without a suitable container. They'd naturally tend to form a lake, rather than a hill. So maybe the movie needs to be remade or at the very least re-dubbed with the phrase "lake of beans".

Believe it or not, I found someone who has already conducted a study as to what shape the hill would take.

Bulk handlers of foodstuffs and minerals need to be aware of the shape of piles they build with their bulk cargo; it's also important when building things like silos, railway hoppers and conveyor belts.

The shape of the cone made by a pile is described by something called the "Angle of Repose". I've just found out after reading a journal from CIGR (Commission Internationale du Genie Rural) that the Angle of Repose for coffee is 35° and for Baked Beans in tomato sauce it's 25°.

Now all I need to do is plug in some figures, perform some experiments and I'll have an answer!

[555-04Q2]

I know a Beanologist who may be able to assist you :p :

BTW, the movie was on TCM last night, had never seen it before and would never had watched it had it not been for this thread. Good movie, THX Rollo :)

[Rollo]

If you were intending to use them for construction rather than sustenance I would suggest that you use Tesco Value, which are 28p for 420g, according to mysupermarket.co.uk (http://www.mysupermarket.co.uk/tesco-price-comparison/Tinned_Beans/Tesco_Value_Baked_Beans_in_Tomato_Sauce_420g.html)

I hope this helps your quest.

My theoretical hill of beans would have to be built in the UK. Based on the above costs, beans cost A$101.348/tonne as opposed to A$181.396/tonne in Australia and the cheapest quote I got in the US was A$139.245/tonne even with the Aussie Dollar buying a buck and 6 cents American.

[Rollo]

If a hill is 100ft high, then the radius of the cone of a hill of beans will be 214.4506920ft
That works out to be 4,815,968 cu.ft of beans.
I did some other calculations and found that beans occupy 0.36830514L/kg

At the price of beans in the UK at A$1.01348 a hill of beans is worth: A$50 903 721

"Ilsa, I’m no good at being noble, but it doesn’t take much to see that the problems of three little people don’t amount to a hill of beans in this crazy world”.
- Rick Blaine (played by Humphrey Bogart) in Casablanca, 1941

Provided your problems are worth more than A$16,967,907 per person, then they might amount to a hill of beans in this crazy world. That sort of money puts you in the same net worth as premiership footballers, Formula One Drivers and CEOs of corporations.

[Bagwan]

You guys seem to have missed that the movie was released in 1941 , so 1940 prices for beans would be more relevent .

Also , there are many kinds of bean .
Was he talking about coffee beans ?
Or were they lima , soya , fava , black , pole , green , purple , or even jelly ?

Jelly beans , if it was hot , might stick together , and account for a much steeper angle , if piled right .

[Rollo]

You guys seem to have missed that the movie was released in 1941 , so 1940 prices for beans would be more relevent .


Fine then:
http://www.hatads.org.uk/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=7035&g2_serialNumber=3
A pound of beans in 1941 cost 5 pence.

A = 5d/lb (1.04) ^ 70
A = 77.8d
A = 78d
78d = 6/6
6/6 = 32.5 New Pence.

32.5p buys 453.59237g
32.5/453.59237 * 420 = 30.09309

The 1941 price was 30.09309p as oppposed to the 2011 price of 28p. Ergo using the 1941 price the hill of beans was more expensive.


Also , there are many kinds of bean .

I realise this. However we need a standard and Baked Beans are about as standard as you can get.


Was he talking about coffee beans?

There is no such thing.
Coffee is made from the pits of the fruit from the Coffea plant which produces cherries. Beans are legumes, which Coffea most certainly is not.

[schmenke]

Rollo, you have waaay too much time on your hands :D

[Bagwan]

Fine then:
http://www.hatads.org.uk/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=7035&g2_serialNumber=3
A pound of beans in 1941 cost 5 pence.

A = 5d/lb (1.04) ^ 70
A = 77.8d
A = 78d
78d = 6/6
6/6 = 32.5 New Pence.

32.5p buys 453.59237g
32.5/453.59237 * 420 = 30.09309

The 1941 price was 30.09309p as oppposed to the 2011 price of 28p. Ergo using the 1941 price the hill of beans was more expensive.



I realise this. However we need a standard and Baked Beans are about as standard as you can get.



There is no such thing.
Coffee is made from the pits of the fruit from the Coffea plant which produces cherries. Beans are legumes, which Coffea most certainly is not.

Would baked beans have been the standard in Casablanca in 1941 ?
I think not .

The pit of the fruit produced by the coffee plant is called a bean .

And , so is your head , sometimes , old bean .

[Rollo]

The pit of the fruit produced by the coffee plant is called a bean .


By whom?
This instructional video helps to shed light on the issue. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBM9P4zFoes)

[Bagwan]

By whom?
This instructional video helps to shed light on the issue. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBM9P4zFoes)

At about 18 seconds into your video , the host says "we call them beans" .

I own four coffee bean roasters .
Here's the first step for roasting , from one machine's manual :
"1 - Prepare 500g of beans and set the bean selector on medium , then set the colour code to number 8 ."

Need a coffee , old bean ?