Milwaukee 225

[DanicaFan]

Race 8 of 18

Race - Milwaukee 225

Location - Milwaukee Mile, West Allis, WI

Date - Sunday, June 19th

Time & TV Schedule - Pre-Race Show, Sunday, June 19th-3:30PM Eastern, Green Flag 4:00PM Eastern

Course Type - 1 Mile Oval

Distance - 225 Laps / 225 Miles

Practice Sessions - Friday, June 17th - 4:00-4:45PM -Practice 1A & 4:45PM -6:00PM Eastern - All Cars / Saturday, June 18th 10:45AM -11:45AM & 1:55-2:55PM-

Qualifications - Saturday, June 18th -5:45-6:45PM Eastern

2009 Pole Sitter - #6 Ryan Briscoe -168.394mph

2009 Winner - #9 Scott Dixon

[DanicaFan]

2009 Race Facts..

Length of Race - 1 hour, 38 minutes, 43 seconds
Average Speed - 138.784 mph
Margin Of Victory - 2.1257 seconds
Lead Changes - 4 Times Among 4 Drivers
Caution Laps - 22 laps for 2 cautions
Fastest Lap - #9 Scott Dixon -Lap #177 - 164.012 mph

[DanicaFan]

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee236/DanicaRules/themilwaukeemile_racetrack-1815.gif

[SarahFan]

I have a feeling it's going to be a barn burner this weekend.


And I have a feeling one or more of the frontrunners are going to dnf

[FIAT1]

I will be there. Weather is looking good.

[00steven]

I have a feeling it's going to be a barn burner this weekend.


And I have a feeling one or more of the frontrunners are going to dnf

That's exactly what I was thinking! It should be an awesome race.

[DanicaFan]

Entry List..

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee236/DanicaRules/milwaukeeentry.jpg

[Marbles]

Should be a good race. Imagine if Tracy was competing at the mile. Shame.

[DanicaFan]

Practice Session 1 Results..
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee236/DanicaRules/milwaukeepractice1.jpg

[DanicaFan]

Here is the qualifying order for tomorrow..

1. #27 Mike Conway
2. #38 Graham Rahal
3. #26 Marco Andretti
4. #24 Ana Beatriz
5. #83 Charlie Kimball
6. #7 Danica Patrick
7. #2 Oriol Servia
8. #06 James Hinchcliffe
9. #34 Sebastian Saavedra
10. #18 James Jakes
11. #82 Tony Kanaan
12. #22 Justin Wilson
13. #78 Simona De Silvestro
14. #14 Vitor Meira
15. #4 JR Hildebrand
16. #9 Scott Dixon
17. #67 Ed Carpenter
18. #59 EJ Viso
19. #5 Takuma Sato
20. #28 Ryan Hunter-Reay
21. #10 Dario Franchitti
22. #12 Will Power
23. #6 Ryan Briscoe
24. #19 Alex Lloyd
25. #3 Helio Castroneves
26. #77 Alex Tagliani

[SarahFan]

Nice run by Bia for p10

Briscoe p18 after having pole last year seems a bit odd


Extra credit for the class: what lap does the leader lap jakes?

[mileman]

How were pit assignments awarded for this race?

[beachbum]

Nice run by Bia for p10

Briscoe p18 after having pole last year seems a bit odd


Extra credit for the class: what lap does the leader lap jakes?The problem with practice is you don't know who was running race simulations and who focused on qualifying. Since tire conservation is always a concern, who ran one set for all of practice and who ran two. Even so, Briscoe seemed a bit slower than the other Penske cars. The section times do show 3 of the 4 AA cars actually were consistently faster after 5 laps or so that at the start of a run unlike most other teams, which suggests they will be good in the race.

As for Jakes, both he and Saavedra seem well of the pace. I say both get lapped by lap 10, assuming no yellows and Saavadra gets lapped first.

[SoCalPVguy]

Extra credit for the class: what lap does the leader lap jakes?

Well, given the practice speeds posted above, it takes about 22 seconds to make a lap and Jakes runs about 1-1/2 seconds per lap slower, so that means he would be lapped around# 15-16.

And before our Diminutive Friend starts laughing, note the princess is running about 0.4 seconds per lap slower than the leaders and that indicates she would be lapped on about #55 and would be lapped maybe 4 times in a 225 lap race. Such is life on a short track at high speeds.

[Hoop-98]

Sat AM Practice;

http://i54.tinypic.com/2e1zitt.jpg

[SarahFan]

if the race goes 15-20 laps of green its going to be crazy with that many cars on track..

next over/under...... how many times will we hear Chip or one of his drivers say the word 'backmarker'?

[SarahFan]

also.....anyone know why its 225laps?....why not just run 250?

[booger]

Milwaukee race is drawing about as much interest on this thread as it is from the number of (absent) fans who will be at the track. It's a damn shame. In yesteryear, the city would be packed, all hotel rooms taken and every restaurant full of excited race fans from 4 states. Now Polish Fest (same days at the lakefront) will undoubtedly be a bigger draw. How far we have fallen.

[booger]

Hell, the amateur racers in the June Sprints at Road America will also be a bigger draw. If I were RA mgm't, I'd watch the outcome of Milwaukee before I signed Indycar to a race there.

[Hoop-98]

here is final practice, pretty nice field.

http://i53.tinypic.com/2d0m8aa.jpg

[DanicaFan]

Ana Beatriz is pretty quick so far but I dont think she can put down a good qualifying attempt unfortunately.

[beachgirl]

And before our Diminutive Friend starts laughing, note the princess is running about 0.4 seconds per lap slower than the leaders and that indicates she would be lapped on about #55 and would be lapped maybe 4 times in a 225 lap race. Such is life on a short track at high speeds.

Her pit crew will give her brilliant pit stops, as usual, and get her out quickly so I don't see her falling 3-4 laps down. Maybe 1, possibly but doubtfully 2. But I don't see any more than that. Hope she personally gives her pit crew HUGE bonuses at the end of the year - they're the ones who get her to the finishes that she gets, not her racing skills.

[DanicaFan]

Danica will not be lapped at this race, its an oval, and only a mile one at that.

[DanicaFan]

Not good, Simona hit the wall in Turn 4 during her qualifying attempt.

[gm99]

Ana Beatriz is pretty quick so far but I dont think she can put down a good qualifying attempt unfortunately.

Good enough to beat Danica ;)

While we're at the subject of female racers, Simona is pretty much an inverse Danica: Reasonably good at the road/street courses, but sucks at the ovals.

[DanicaFan]

Congrats to Dario Franchitti for winning the pole.

[DanicaFan]

Here is your starting line-up..

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee236/DanicaRules/milwaukeelineup.jpg

[beachgirl]

Danica will not be lapped at this race, its an oval, and only a mile one at that.

We'll see tomorrow.

[TURN3]

Danica will not be lapped at this race, its an oval, and only a mile one at that.

Just curious, but has he person that posted the above statement EVER gotten anything right.

From recent memory, "I'm glad we are back to ovals for awhile so Princess Lapped-A-lot can start competing for poles again"..."Ana won't be able to pit a qualifying lap in that fast"....and on and on and on. Huge reason this forum is an absolute ghost town these days.

[TURN3]

Good enough to beat Danica ;)

While we're at the subject of female racers, Simona is pretty much an inverse Danica: Reasonably good at the road/street courses, but sucks at the ovals.

I do strongly disagree. Simona isn't playing with even close to a full deck when it comes to ovals. Sure, she could improve but she cannot be graded by her current situation. HVM hasn't been remotely competitive since they were Herdez, and that was a rarity. She was ROY at Indy and qualifying was pretty damn impressive this year.

More interesting point about her and HVM is what do they have left for this season in terms of equipment?

[beachgirl]

I do strongly disagree. Simona isn't playing with even close to a full deck when it comes to ovals. Sure, she could improve but she cannot be graded by her current situation. HVM hasn't been remotely competitive since they were Herdez, and that was a rarity. She was ROY at Indy and qualifying was pretty damn impressive this year.

More interesting point about her and HVM is what do they have left for this season in terms of equipment?

Danica doesn't have an excuse for not being good on road/street courses, either. It's all she raced until she started in Indycar in 2005. Now revisionist history has conveniently overlooked that little fact.

Simona, on the other hand, just started running ovals last year.

[SoCalPVguy]

Ana Beatriz is pretty quick so far but I dont think she can put down a good qualifying attempt unfortunately.

Define "Good qualifying attempt" please. Ana qualifies 11th which is the fastest female driver and ahead of the princess who could only qualify 15th. That's a "Good qualifying attempt" for me. Your "thinking" has absolutely no credibility here.

[beachbum]

I do strongly disagree. Simona isn't playing with even close to a full deck when it comes to ovals. Sure, she could improve but she cannot be graded by her current situation. HVM hasn't been remotely competitive since they were Herdez, and that was a rarity. She was ROY at Indy and qualifying was pretty damn impressive this year.

More interesting point about her and HVM is what do they have left for this season in terms of equipment?I think they will be running a "Bitza". Bits of this, bits of that. "Janet" is deceased, and "Pork Chop" has been crashed and rebuilt so many times it can't be that very competitive. But it would be very hard to justify a new(er) chassis this far in the season with all new stuff coming in 2012.

[Anubis]

Just curious, but has he person that posted the above statement EVER gotten anything right.

From recent memory, "I'm glad we are back to ovals for awhile so Princess Lapped-A-lot can start competing for poles again"..."Ana won't be able to pit a qualifying lap in that fast"....and on and on and on. Huge reason this forum is an absolute ghost town these days.

Stopped clock maybe?

[DanicaFan]

The weather scares me a bit today, rain.

[DanicaFan]

Everyone, I am suprised that Danica hasnt been up there in the front rows on the ovals. She is awesome on them but for some reason, Andretti Autosport has been struggling on the qualifying so Im hoping for the remainder of the season that they can improve.

[Chris R]

Everyone, I am suprised that Danica hasnt been up there in the front rows on the ovals. She is awesome on them but for some reason, Andretti Autosport has been struggling on the qualifying so Im hoping for the remainder of the season that they can improve.

Andretti is not getting the job done but neither is Danica (at this stage of here career he should have the ability to help move the team in the right direction). I think her head is more on the future and her "brand" than on being a top notch race car driver (Indy or otherwise).... She has shown on numerous occasions that she has the underlying talent - but (especially lately) she has not shown the drive/desire/commitment to be a consistent front-runner / winner.... If she can find her racing mojo your predictions might not be so out-there, but she needs to get to it, otherwise she is going to be an also ran/ has-been in Indycars and a never was in NASCAR..... That being said, if she is happier being a media darling/sex symbol who has a cool job but is clearly not the best out there (think Dale Jr.) than that is fine. - You just need the change your expectations from expecting her to do well each week to being pleasantly surprised when she has a good race and looking forward to her next SI swimsuit pose more than her next podium finish..... (unlike some, I will not hold that against her as a person - it is a valid and smart decision - but it does diminish her as a pure race driver...)

[SarahFan]

Quality/depth of the field might just have something to do with it...

She is simply was never that "great" ..... Perhaps the time has come to relize the difference between a driver and racers

[beachgirl]

Everyone, I am suprised that Danica hasnt been up there in the front rows on the ovals. She is awesome on them but for some reason, Andretti Autosport has been struggling on the qualifying so Im hoping for the remainder of the season that they can improve.

She has been awesome ON OCCASION on ovals. Not so much anymore. Any awesomeness in the past couple years has been a combination of excellent pit crew work and her once/twice a year fit of red haze. On a regular basis? No.

I agree with Chris - all she's doing now is phoning it in until she moves on. Some of the fault does rest with AA with their musical-chairs change of personnel on what seems to be a weekly basis. But that doesn't fully explain her performance last year, either. I also find it interesting in looking over the past years since 2005, she starts with a team that's at the top, or very near the top, and then while she's there the team just disintegrates. Why is that?

When someone like Danica puts herself out there as being a top racer (and the media didn't do it all - she started the media hype at the beginning and has reaped what she sowed), then that is what is expected of her by the racing fans. For racing fans, she disappoints. Then, her fanicas all blame it on the media. It's not all the fault of the media. Someone is sending out the press releases, someone is approving those press releases, and if Danica has that little control over her career, her agents, and her managers, she's definitely not as smart and savvy as some people like to make her out to be. Do the agents and managers work for her (as they should be) or does she work for them?

[SoCalPVguy]

Everyone, I am suprised that Danica hasnt been up there in the front rows on the ovals. She is awesome on them but for some reason, Andretti Autosport has been struggling on the qualifying so Im hoping for the remainder of the season that they can improve.

No surprise here. The former success you speak of is in the distant past and was against a small, shallow, weakened IRL field prior to Cart (http://www.motorsportforums.com/showwiki.php?title=CART) team mergers into series. But the team is progressively getting worse since MA took it over from the Greens. They have gone from a top team to mediocre (or less). Barely qualified for the 500 this year, had to buy one of their drivers into it. Out-qualified and out-ran by a number of smaller teams with much limited resources. No, AR is NOT a top team and the constant is Mike and the people he has either driven away or kept.

Furthermore the princess's style has always been to be consistent albeit 2-3 mph behind the leaders and hope for lucky pit strategy or fuel windows to move up the field. NEVER has she been a leader on speed alone - NEVER.

In the last two years I have observed she has become even more conservative in trying to finish as I think she lacks confidence at speed and may be afraid (who knows but her...)... So she runs very high down-force on the car whatever the reason. This causes the car to go like a slot car, slow and steady, even slower than previous years. The unintended consequence is that high downforce means even poorer mileage, so the idea of winning on mileage and pit/fuel windows is also no longer viable... Agreed she is just phoning it in until she gets over to the taxicabs... where her record will be even worse because high downforce tight Nascars are oh so much slower than loose cars, only loose cars win over there.

PS and if she was ugly and didn't bare (most) of it all in swimsuit issues, danicamania would have been dead a looooong time ago, especially given her surly and prickly personality. Its clear she's only in it for the money and endorsements and winning is well beyond secondary...

I cannot wait until she goes over to Nascar full time and you take your posting crapola full time over to Nascar boards.. I guarantee you these experienced and knowledgeable Nascar fans and posters will not put up with you blind-faith BS for very long.

PPS- Anybody seen or heard of Anna Kournakova lately ???

[SarahFan]

Is the race going to
Be run today?

Or will weather be a factor?

[booger]

Thank you, Sarah Fan for at least acknowledging that there is a race today. Perhaps the Danica whimps should start their own thread to yakyakyak about that *****. Weather says it's 80 and sunny in Milwaukee right now with little chance of more rain. Mazda and FF2000races were rained out and not many finished Indy Lights. Anybody there have a handle on the type of crowd attending? Early rain probably already killed their walkup.

[booger]

Weather looks good. Sun's out. Stands about half full?

[Jag_Warrior]

PPS- Anybody seen or heard of Anna Kournakova lately ???

Last I heard, she was going to be on some show called "The Biggest Loser". I think she's replacing Danica's GoDaddy BFF, Jillian Michaels, or something. Maybe as a courtesy, Anna will invite her "over-hyped & all sizzle" midget twin on that show. It would be kind of ironic to have the "When You Peak, You Win" girl on a show called "The Biggest Loser", eh?

Anyway, today I'm hoping to see Graham Rahal start showing something. He doesn't have to win, but he needs to start upping his game, IMO. He's now with a pretty good operation (probably as good as it will get, unless he starts winning), so it's on him to start getting it done!

[Anubis]

Things getting rather silly in the pits.

[SarahFan]

How was that not a penalty for Dario?

[Anubis]

Dare I say Danica is having a reasonable race? Not stellar, which some will doubtless paint it as, but hasn't hit anyone or anything yet. Hinch also having a good one. Sato having a rather varied day, it's fair to say.

[Hoop-98]

Nice move by TK....

[NickFalzone]

Did Viso just crash? Oh, oh Viso.

[Anubis]

Two KV cars in the wall and Sato NOT one of them. Strange days. Servia creeping up and looking racy.

[Anubis]

Tongue firmly in cheek..."Congratulations to Dario Franchitti for the win. Danica ran a great race. I'm proud of her".

Joking aside, that's probably one of her better drives recently. Didn't set the World on fire, but you also can't simply claim it was done on fuel mileage or luck. Certainly gained a few spots due to others crashing out, but then that could apply to Servia and Rahal as well, so credit where it's due. It'll be heralded as the second coming or a push for the championship, but it was a solid enough drive IMO. Interesting day for Sato, but decent finish.

[00steven]

Hell of a drive by Dario! A great race with a lot of action, it's great to be back at Milwaukee.

[Hoop-98]

Unofficial finish order, and fastest laps.


http://i55.tinypic.com/ifxs7r.jpg

http://i51.tinypic.com/9pm2s9.jpg

[uncommonsense52]

Dario should have been black flagged for hitting Power's tire on pit road. Hope he remembers that next time he goes off whining about things.

[NickFalzone]

Good, fun race at Milwaukee. Unfortunately, also what looked to me like the worst televised attendance at a non rained-out IndyCar event. Never seen stands that sparse before, except maybe a NASCAR truck race or on a bad weather event. Makes you wonder if it will be back, because I remember the stands being way more full last time IndyCar was there.

[booger]

Too bad. Milwaukee fans missed a hell of an event. And you can't blame the promoters either, they worked their butts off, ran lots of ads, kept the race in the public eyes,...and still nobody gave a crap.

[SarahFan]

Whatareyounostrfukindamisnow

[NickFalzone]

Whatareyounostrfukindamisnow

lol i deserve that. But Texas at least had large full sections of stands. I couldn't visually see a difference of more than a few thousand there from this year to last. Milwaukee.. well that was simply embarrassing.

[Marbles]

Start messed up on DVR. Race was joined 63 laps in and in the next 10 laps heard:

Marty Reid talk over driver\pit communications when Beatriz hit the wall --
Pumped up double sided restarts with a reformed Kanaan expounding their virtues and promptly went to commercial and missed restart (caught with that technical marvel "sidebyside") --
Scott Goodyear use the word "irregardless" --

Old drinking game: Goodyear explain marbles\oversteer\understeer.
New drinking game: Goodyear say "just a passenger".

I hope ABC\ESPN get turfed at years end.

Otherwise, a so-so race with a few twists at the end.

Kanaan backs it into the wall and Neves has to pit for a tire and a Ganassi driver inherits the lead. All is right with the world.

Solid showings by Rahal, Patrick and Hinchcliffe.


Dario should have been black flagged for hitting Power's tire on pit road. Hope he remembers that next time he goes off whining about things.

Apparently it's in the rules that, and I'm quoting here, "a pit violation involving (a) crew member(s) and\or equipment struck by a pitting or un-pitting car of an opposing team will be forgiven if the involved teams pat each other on the back and have a chuckle over it".

One of those IRL "not always" rules.

As for attendance, I think I've seen it look emptier? more empty? Not as full! It's a long road back.

[Sateryn76]

I thought it was a great race. Certainly entertaining.... Yea for Dario, sorry for TK, becoming impressed with Rahal...

My high points:

- Over the radio... "..****ing Sato" :) ))
- RHR going out so early - I wonder if he was running Go Daddy because someone at DHL bitched after Indy
- Dario ripping Helio in the post-race interview. Helio is losing friends fast this season...

It so perfect that they're entering mid-season in a tie. Almost too perfect....nah, probably not...

And a big "Booo!" to ABC coverage. It's so bad. Skipping important events for more and more ads, terrible announcers, ignoring half the field. And the "Father/Racer" factoids - really? No one cared.

[NickFalzone]

Just a little confused, I heard Jamie Little say Hildebrand was off to the medical center to get a "drug test". Anyone know if that's standard procedure after a crash? Kinda sounded weird. John Barnes seemed real pissed also.

[Sateryn76]

I caught that too... I assume it's policy, but I'd be a little irritated if I were him. It would be nice if it was clarified, because it sounds like it was only him that was singled out.

John Barnes sounds like a major A-hole...

[Sateryn76]

How was that not a penalty for Dario?

Does anyone have any stats on how far out the tire guy is allowed to stand? It'd be interesting to do some photo analysis and see if he was too far out or not.

[NickFalzone]

I caught that too... I assume it's policy, but I'd be a little irritated if I were him. It would be nice if it was clarified, because it sounds like it was only him that was singled out.

John Barnes sounds like a major A-hole...

From what I saw, Barnes pulled the Danica/Marco/Helio move after a frustrating crash. Got on his scooter and scooted the hell outta there!

[Anubis]

On the subject of commentary, there was more than one occasion early in the race when Scott Goodyear said something like "The track is very green, so there aren't any marbles off line yet", then in the very next breath said "you just can't go off line here because of the marbles". Enjoyed the race anyway, but the commentary really didn't add anything and missed a great deal.

[nigelred5]

It certaintly looked more full in years past, especially before the new grandstands. Maybe that's part of the problem, we can actually see how empty the grandstands are now that they are tall shiny aluminum. CART certainly had large crowds in the past, but it was also difficult to tell just how many fans there actually were when announced official attendance was always suspect. I know why they don't do the same, but EVERY pro football or baseball game I've ever attended has announced an exact gate attendance figure. they usually even have a guess the attendance contest for the crowd. Restoring the traditional date may help but I fear it's simply a generational thing we are fighting trying to re-build Indycar.

[booger]

If a tree falls in the woods and nobody hears it, did it really fall? And if there's an Indycar race in Milwaukee and nobody comes, did it really happen? Once a tree falls, you can't pick it up again and once a race falls you can't pick that up again either. RIP Milwaukee, what a shame!

[chuck34]

If a tree falls in the woods and nobody hears it, did it really fall? And if there's an Indycar race in Milwaukee and nobody comes, did it really happen? Once a tree falls, you can't pick it up again and once a race falls you can't pick that up again either. RIP Milwaukee, what a shame!

You're in a good mood this morning aren't you?

[DBell]

You're in a good mood this morning aren't you?

But he's not wrong. Small crowd leaves future uncertain for Milwaukee 225 - JSOnline (http://www.jsonline.com/sports/autoracing/124169538.html)

According to this article, Randy Bernard said their is only a 50/50 chance of the race being on the schedule next year. It said there were no more than 15 k at the race. It's a shame because I really enjoyed the race. A classic, flat track that is perfect for Indy Car racing, but I'm afraid that getting a decent crowd anymore seems to be a tough sell.

[nigelred5]

I'd say there is a large portion of the Milwaukee Open-wheel fanbase that were former CART/ Indycar fans are still that...... Former fans. I do't recall any of the IRL run races having a good turnout in Milwaukee. I love that track, but once you break a tradition, it can become very hard to re-establish it. We had a Hydroplane regatta in my town for many years. It died off several years ago and then returned until this year. Same boats, many of the same people but the local interest just isn't there any longer. We even have a local family that the father,wife, son and daughter are all perennial champions in several classes, and there is barely a blip of interest on the radar. Sometimes it's just time.


I know many of my friends that used to be Open wheel fans would rather watch no racing at all than follow the "new indycar", and that's essentially what they have chosen to do. I can't get a couple of them to even commit to going to saturday ALMS race in Baltimore, but I still have hope they will attend when it is closer. I know a couple guys are just holding out for them to release more sunday single day tickets.

[booger]

Milwaukee talk radio is devoting a segment on the race at the Mile. Many callers are not happy about the dearth of American drivers and the bad taste left by former (I call them carpetbaggers) promoters who pretty much just walked away without even paying the hot dog sellers. On life support is the current outlook by the media regarding this event. Now we get to look forward to the BIG NASCAR race this weekend at Road America who has upped the ticket prices by 25% from last year probably to help pay the sanctioning fee for the Grand Am nap that will precede it...get ready for a riot. The fans that come for NASCAR ain't gonna like the Grand Ams one bit. By the time the NASCAR race starts (4:30pm), these fans will be sooo drunk that it could get ugly.

[Jag_Warrior]

I generally prefer road courses over any oval. But when it comes to ovals, I usually enjoy the flat tracks over the high banks, as I think they require higher driving skills. So it would be a shame to see a track with so much rich history, like Milwaukee, go away. But if they can't draw people in... Though I would say that's more of a problem with the series than with the track. When you can't draw fans in to traditionally successful venues, and you're relying (too much, IMO) on going to new places, where you draw in the curiosity seekers for a year or two, I don't think that's a good plan.

This was a decent race. Nothing earth shattering, but it was better than most I've seen this year. The only real criticism I have is with the announce team: they're boring and they seldom offer any real insight into what's happening (plus they goof up more than they should). ABC and Versus need to send their guys down to Charlotte and let them attend the Varsha, Hobbs and Matchett School of Race Broadcasting. Even if they just get a C in the class, they'd be better than they are now. And what's the deal with following Danica's car around the track for lap after lap, when she's muddling around in 10th or 11th place? Do they do that just to keep GoDaddy happy, so Parsons will keep buying ad time?

BTW, I called for Graham Rahal to finally show his stuff... and he did JUST that! Good job, young Rahal. :up:

[Lee Roy]

I can't get a couple of them to even commit to going to saturday ALMS race in Baltimore, but I still have hope they will attend when it is closer. I know a couple guys are just holding out for them to release more sunday single day tickets.

I know what they mean. I was going to go on Friday and Saturday and take some friends along that aren't race fans. But the thought of walking around in the sweltering heat trying to catch a brief momentary glimpse of the only two or three LMP's that will be there just isn't appealing. And street races in general aren't that interesting to me to begin with.

[Wilf]

No surprise here. The former success you speak of is in the distant past and was against a small, shallow, weakened IRL field prior to Cart (http://www.motorsportforums.com/showwiki.php?title=CART) team mergers into series. But the team is progressively getting worse since MA took it over from the Greens. They have gone from a top team to mediocre (or less). Barely qualified for the 500 this year, had to buy one of their drivers into it. Out-qualified and out-ran by a number of smaller teams with much limited resources. No, AR is NOT a top team and the constant is Mike and the people he has either driven away or kept.

Furthermore the princess's style has always been to be consistent albeit 2-3 mph behind the leaders and hope for lucky pit strategy or fuel windows to move up the field. NEVER has she been a leader on speed alone - NEVER.

In the last two years I have observed she has become even more conservative in trying to finish as I think she lacks confidence at speed and may be afraid (who knows but her...)... So she runs very high down-force on the car whatever the reason. This causes the car to go like a slot car, slow and steady, even slower than previous years. The unintended consequence is that high downforce means even poorer mileage, so the idea of winning on mileage and pit/fuel windows is also no longer viable... Agreed she is just phoning it in until she gets over to the taxicabs... where her record will be even worse because high downforce tight Nascars are oh so much slower than loose cars, only loose cars win over there.

PS and if she was ugly and didn't bare (most) of it all in swimsuit issues, danicamania would have been dead a looooong time ago, especially given her surly and prickly personality. Its clear she's only in it for the money and endorsements and winning is well beyond secondary...

I cannot wait until she goes over to Nascar full time and you take your posting crapola full time over to Nascar boards.. I guarantee you these experienced and knowledgeable Nascar fans and posters will not put up with you blind-faith BS for very long.

PPS- Anybody seen or heard of Anna Kournakova lately ???

Actually, I didn't see her, but I did see her picture on the wall of the bank she owns. http://www.motorsportforums.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Why do people object to other's successes just because it does not fit their description of success.

[Bob Riebe]

Though I would say that's more of a problem with the series than with the track.
It is quite some years now, but I was at the Wisconsin State Fair and they had a petition to bring back the races.
To make a long story short, if it is like Minn. Fair boards nowadays seem to loath automobile racing and if they can get rid of the track they will.

I spoke to people at the Minn. State Fair and they told me repeatedly that the races were living on borrowed time, as the Fair Board was looking for reason to end them. They did and quickly tore out the track.

[SoCalPVguy]

Actually, I didn't see her, but I did see her picture on the wall of the bank she owns. http://www.motorsportforums.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Why do people object to other's successes just because it does not fit their description of success.

You misread my intentions. I do not begrudge anyone success, wealth or happiness. In fact I embrace it and encourage it and admire personal responsibility, initiative, integrity, and hard work. I do not however respect "success under false pretenses".

To wit, Anna K. has found success as a top model, and why not - she is hottttttttttt!!!!. But do not tell me she is a "top tennis player".

Danica P. has found success as a "Brand", and why not - she is able to attract sponsors and related promotions. But do not tell me she is a "great racer".

[Mark in Oshawa]

Milwaukee however should give its head a shake. It isn't a major market in many ways. To only draw 15000k for the IRL is just silly. Nothing better is coming...NASCAR was stiffed by the idiots the City had promoting their races there..so in light of that, the IRL is the only game coming to town. With no IRL date at Road America YET....showing up here would have made a case that people in Wisconsin give a damn about Indycar racing. How can Randy Bernard justify going to Road America when the same fanbase not an hour away wouldn't go see the same series on a great oval? I think if you are a racing fan, you don't care if they don't turn right or not...

[Pat Wiatrowski]

I'd say there is a large portion of the Milwaukee Open-wheel fanbase that were former CART/ Indycar fans are still that...... Former fans. I do't recall any of the IRL run races having a good turnout in Milwaukee. I love that track, but once you break a tradition, it can become very hard to re-establish it. We had a Hydroplane regatta in my town for many years. It died off several years ago and then returned until this year. Same boats, many of the same people but the local interest just isn't there any longer. We even have a local family that the father,wife, son and daughter are all perennial champions in several classes, and there is barely a blip of interest on the radar. Sometimes it's just time.


I know many of my friends that used to be Open wheel fans would rather watch no racing at all than follow the "new indycar", and that's essentially what they have chosen to do. I can't get a couple of them to even commit to going to saturday ALMS race in Baltimore, but I still have hope they will attend when it is closer. I know a couple guys are just holding out for them to release more sunday single day tickets.

Correct! I still am a AOW fan but I will NOT attend a irl race. EVER
.

[Hoop-98]

2006 Champcar

http://i55.tinypic.com/keeypt.jpg

2011 Indycar

http://i52.tinypic.com/zk3ipg.jpg

Unscientifically I would suggest that it is more of an OW issue in MKE than Champcar/Indy, by 2006 Champcar race at Milwaukee was pretty much dead also.

Last year there were 11K purchased tickets for giveaways that didn't exist this year.

In 79, as much as I admired Dan Gurney, I thought he was crazy if he didn't think Penske and the money/factory teams would take over his Animal Farm version of racing. All Franchise Holders good, some Franchise Holders better! I still went to the races though.

rh

[numanoid]

Not sure if anyone followed the Milwaukee Mile facebook page, but there were a lot of really angry Indycar fans on there. The promoters did a horrible job telling us what the rules were and it caused a lot of confusion. My wife emailed them (and 2 Milwaukee newspapers) explaining the issue and asking her questions. She got a phone call back from a not so happy representative but at least we got the information to plan our day. We live in Minneapolis and took the trip to finally catch a race in person.

The fact that this is held at the fair means the fair sets the rules. The no re-admittance policy was a joke. Things started at 8 AM and the race was much much later. We decided to skip out on a lot because we didn't want to be stuck in the fair grounds all day. As I stated in a different thread, they started offering 2 for 1 tickets by qualifying day due to low ticket sales. Once again, nothing was communicated to the fans that already spent their money months ago for some time. We heard it over the loudspeaker at the track, but people looking online for info were out of luck. Even then, the no re-admittance policy caused us to not be able to take friends to the race because they had no desire to show up as early as we were going.

That said, this was my first Indycar race (my first race period) and both my wife and I had a blast. IMS Radio coverage was great and we saw a killer race with our favorites (Helio and TK) at the front battling the evil Franchitti. We vowed to go back. We got our tickets for the Vegas race and may head to that as well. If Milwaukee is off the schedule next year, we may give Iowa a shot. I hope the don't cancel all of the Midwest races.

At the bar later that night, we saw a TON of news coverage on the race. Whether or not fans were into it, the media was all over it. They just need to make it more accommodating to the fans next year.

I also have to hand it to the series "fan village" thing they had going on. It was very engaging and extremely busy on race day.

[SarahFan]

Correct! I still am a AOW fan but I will NOT attend a irl race. EVER
.


Well then you are in luck as it's no longer the irl and TG isn't in charge .... Ill see at Vegas and maybe new hamshire

[Hoop-98]

Well then you are in luck as it's no longer the irl and TG isn't in charge .... Ill see at Vegas and maybe new hamshire

I think I will make Vegas, here is my guess for pole speed (drag limited)


Race Time Distance Speed
2004 CC 26.19 1.5 206.19
2000 IRL 25.89 1.5 208.57
1996 IRL 23.82 1.5 226.70
2011 NC 28.59 1.5 188.88
2011 ICS? 24.95 1.5 216.43

[mileman]

I think that Hoop's "unscientific" note about the 2006 Champcar race may be part but not all of the story. What makes it look even worse though is that somebody thought they could make a buck off of a Champcar race, a NASCAR weekend with trucks and Busch cars, and an IRL race. (Not sure if they made anything - but there it is.) Back in the day - the Indy cars used to draw between 35,000 and 40,000. My first race was 1961 - and the excitement was that the same drivers from the 500 were coming to town. My most memorable race was Jim Clark winning with ease in 1963.

Although I attended many races at other tracks, the Mile was always a comfortable, fun place. Even in the old USAC days, the idea of well known Indy car drivers doubling up in stocks during the fair week was great stuff. (Roger Ward, Parnelli Jones, AJ Foyt, Johnny Rutherford, Lloyd Ruby, etc.)

As for this past weekend, there were so many things that affected the showing - and, who knows, some of it may be a waning interest in OW. I spent the whole weekend at the track and was pleased that I did. But I drove there Sunday morning in a "monsoon." I'm sure that many borderline fans thought the race would look better on ABC on their widescreen HDTVs. They at least could be certain that they wouldn't blow a few hundred bucks - and just get drenched.

But local broadcasting and weather were probably only a small part of the problem. Without repeating all the complaints listed by others, I'll just say that from my perspective, it was bungled by the promoters. I think that AB (which is two separate Indy companies pulled together to put this race on) was just in over it's head. Maybe Barnard just couldn't get anyone to take on the task. (?) They may have been at a disadvantage in not having old mailing lists from 2009, but they just missed the mark both in the marketing and in the site logistics. I'm sure that they were shorthanded and did whatever "good idea" came to mind. But doing things like bringing Simona in for a local media day was not going to hit one out of the park. I'm sure that most viewers wondered who this person was - and why they should care. Were they supposed to be interested because she was a woman who drove at Indy? That was old news. I'll leave it at that. It was a sad showing for the local fans - and a sad showing by AB and Barnard.

I'm sure that OW can soldier on without the Mile - and I'll continue to follow it's twists and turns. I'm just glad that I was there for what looks like the last race.

[mileman]

Anyone here from Chicago? With Chicagoland off the schedule, I'm wondering what marketing exposure there was down there.

[beachbum]

After almost every Indy Car (and even NASCAR) race these days, there is this big discussion on various forums about attendance and the proliferation of aluminum hats. Some tracks have taken to painting the seats contrasting colors so it isn't so obvious. But consider this. How do we know there weren't many people there? We saw the aluminum hats while watching at home on the big screen! I am old enough to remember when the only way to see any sporting event was to go to the event. If there was TV, it was so poor that you didn't see much. That has changed.

Over the years, I have been a quite a few races in various capacities, but now I watch almost exclusively on TV. It isn't the same as the experience at the track, but it is much cheaper and easier. The same effect has hit other sports like baseball. Been to a typical major league game lately or watched on TV? The stands are mostly empty. The last time I went to a baseball game, I missed some of the game because it was almost a social event as many fans were talking about the game and other things. If I really wanted to see the game, with today's technology I see more at home in the living room.

If you only go to race to watch the on track action, you can see much it on TV, often better than at the track. True, some networks like ESPN cover only some of the action, but even at a track no one can watch everything at once. Is it any wonder tracks like Charlotte have big screens with the TV feed running?

The only events that still bring in the live fan are "events". Some race weekends have a lot more going on than can be shown on the limited TV coverage. Indy, Sebring, Talledega, many street circuits, and others have much more going on at the track than just the race. If there are fun things to do that beyond the on track action, then there is more value to go to the track than sit at home. Sports promoters all know that, and the good ones work very hard to improve the event "experience" to try to maintain attendance and draw in fans.

That doesn't explain the crappy TV ratings, but that is another story

[nigelred5]

Isn't that like saying, and nigelred5 will understand this, you will never attend a Baltimore Ravens game because you hate what Bob Irsay did? CART isn't coming back any more than the Colts are. Times change and it's a different era. I was born in the south but I don't have a Confederate flag tatooed on my arm either.

You got that right! The first season after the selloutmergification, but I've moved on, and Indycar is at least more palatable with TG out of the picture, but come on with the new cars already.!!! put that last reminder of the IRL to bed. Unfortunately, it appears Indycar is starting to face the same problem CART/Champcar did with ISC. Before it was to gain dominance. Now, with attendance steadily falling at NASCAR tracks, it appears they are being very protective of their markets. That I don't want to see them dropping even more ovals. I love road courses, but I also love watching the short ovals like Milwaukee, Phoenix and my dearly departed Nazareth :( . Too bad Gateway isn't open, I really liked the egg. They can't lose most of the 1.5 milers fast enough for me though. Texas and Vegas would be enough. Kansas, Chicagoland and Kentucky just suck to watch any races from, I don't care who is racing on them.

I love the Ravens. My wife bought tickets to the Ravens Colts game in Baltimore. I told her to take a friend. I never missed an opportuninty to spit on the Hoosirer Dome every time I went to Indy. Jimmy Irsay may be an Ok guy from what I hear, but his father, well, too bad he didnt' have the stroke 25 years earlier. We raised more than one glass the day he cashed it in. At least Art Modell gave Cleveland ample time to come up with a deal to keep the Browns and he left the name behind and worked to get cleveland a new team. How's Randy Lerner working out there in Cleveland. I'm sure his Dad is still rolling in his grave over what Randy did to MBNA. Irsay never wanted to be in Baltimore. He wanted to move the team Closer to chicago the day after he swapped the Rams for the Colts with Carroll Rosenbloom. He would have moved them to Gary IN if they had offered him a nickle and a parking lot to play on.

[chuck34]

Animal Farm version of racing.

That may be the funniest thing I've seen in a while. I love it. I'll probably steal that from you. :D

[Pat Wiatrowski]

Isn't that like saying, and nigelred5 will understand this, you will never attend a Baltimore Ravens game because you hate what Bob Irsay did? CART isn't coming back any more than the Colts are. Times change and it's a different era. I was born in the south but I don't have a Confederate flag tatooed on my arm either.

Yes it is!

[garyshell]

They can't lose most of the 1.5 milers fast enough for me though. Texas and Vegas would be enough. Kansas, Chicagoland and Kentucky just suck to watch any races from, I don't care who is racing on them.

What is wrong with Kentucky Speedway? It has had some pretty exciting races the past couple of years. Are we talking TV or in person viewing? I've done both for the last two Kentucky races, and enjoyed them.

Gary

[booger]

The Mile started going downhill when Haas and his gang demanded that the track be repaved and all the main straight grandstands be bulldozed for new, modern stands and hospitality "sweets" (if you can call them that) built over the top. The state paid, and continues to pay for this fiasco and has left the State Fair b.o.d. with a really bad view of every type of auto racing. Soon after the new construction was completed, Haas and company walked away leaving the keys to the State Fair Park management. Then the real fun started. First the b.o.d. turned over race promotion to a bunch of greedy real estate developers, aka "carpetbaggers" who had no experience or interest in running racing events. Their primary interest was getting their hands on the real estate adjacent to the track for a new hotel, shopping mall and office space. When the real estate market fell apart, this bunch ran like a bunch of scalded dogs, leaving the place drowning in red ink and unpaid sanctioning fees and bills. The board then interviewed a whole bunch of nobodys, along with one proven promoter (Giufree Bros. who got screwed by the board, who changed the contract at the last minute). So with everybody screwing everybody, why is it a surprise that this wonderful track is in such a state of disarray? With all the bad ink that's been generated over the years, I'm surprised anybody showed up last weekend. Now you have what Paul Harvey used to call "the rest of the stroy".

[nigelred5]

What is wrong with Kentucky Speedway? It has had some pretty exciting races the past couple of years. Are we talking TV or in person viewing? I've done both for the last two Kentucky races, and enjoyed them.

Gary

Hello....It's in Kentucky... ;) No seriously, nothing against Kentucky as a state at all, It's just that I personally don't like the majority of the racing the 1.5 mile NASCAR style tri-oval clones produce for open wheel cars. I don't particularly like watching NASCAR at the place either but Kansas and Chicagoland are the worst IMHO. Some people would like to see an entire season of that style of oval racing, I'm not one of them.

[garyshell]

Hello....It's in Kentucky... ;) No seriously, nothing against Kentucky as a state at all, It's just that I personally don't like the majority of the racing the 1.5 mile NASCAR style tri-oval clones produce for open wheel cars. I don't particularly like watching NASCAR at the place either but Kansas and Chicagoland are the worst IMHO. Some people would like to see an entire season of that style of oval racing, I'm not one of them.

I am not one of them either. I am not a big fan of 1.5 mile ovals either, but that particular track (Kentucky) has produced some really good races the past two years.

Gary

[Pat Wiatrowski]

The Mile started going downhill when Haas and his gang demanded that the track be repaved and all the main straight grandstands be bulldozed for new, modern stands and hospitality "sweets" (if you can call them that) built over the top. The state paid, and continues to pay for this fiasco and has left the State Fair b.o.d. with a really bad view of every type of auto racing. Soon after the new construction was completed, Haas and company walked away leaving the keys to the State Fair Park management. Then the real fun started. First the b.o.d. turned over race promotion to a bunch of greedy real estate developers, aka "carpetbaggers" who had no experience or interest in running racing events. Their primary interest was getting their hands on the real estate adjacent to the track for a new hotel, shopping mall and office space. When the real estate market fell apart, this bunch ran like a bunch of scalded dogs, leaving the place drowning in red ink and unpaid sanctioning fees and bills. The board then interviewed a whole bunch of nobodys, along with one proven promoter (Giufree Bros. who got screwed by the board, who changed the contract at the last minute). So with everybody screwing everybody, why is it a surprise that this wonderful track is in such a state of disarray? With all the bad ink that's been generated over the years, I'm surprised anybody showed up last weekend. Now you have what Paul Harvey used to call "the rest of the stroy".

Did you ever attend a Milwaukee race when the old grandstands were in use? I'd bet not. It was original and really old and in disrepair and needed to be replaced. Also, I think Carl paid for the new, complete replacement of the track (and sub-surface drainage systems) out of his OWN pocket and NO state/tax money was involved.

[mileman]

Don't know what Haas had to do with the main grandstand - but it was seriously crumbling away for years. (Not to mention the smell near the old restrooms...) The bleachers had a similar problem. When you sat in turn 4, there was the excitement of the race - and then there was the tension from wondering who around you was going to just fall straight through the rotten boards. I will agree with all the other nutty stuff that's gone on with the fair park board and promoters, etc.

I still don't think this lets Randy or AB off the hook. Randy is supposed to be the strategic decision maker, and the laundry list of criticisms about AB is a long one. I can't believe that Randy had no oversight on this operation - and couldn't see that it was turned over to folks with no extensive (lead) experience in putting on a major league event.