So I take it we don't need wet tyres anymore in F1

[The Black Knight]

If todays race is anything to go by anything past intermediate conditions is now safety car territory.

We may as well throw out wet tyres, they aren't needed and if it is too bad we'll throw out the safety car until such time as wets are no longer needed and we go back onto intermediates.

What are your opinions on this?

[Daniel]

Did you not see the spray?

[steveaki13]

There was alot of water after the red flag and full wets were the right tyres, I think the drivers were being cautious and everyone was caught out at how quick the track dried. Who would have thought slicks would be in use after 55 odd laps when at lap 25, the track was a river.

[The Black Knight]

I saw the spray but by the time the safety car went in it was dry enough for intermediates, that's my point. It should have come in sooner. No point in having wet tyres if it will always be too wet to use them before it is safe to race.

I long for the days of Donnington 93, Spain 96, Spa 98, Monza 97, Estoril 85 where they were told get out there and race, and no pussy footing crap.

[Daniel]

I bet you long for Imola 94 too

[The Black Knight]

I bet you long for Imola 94 too
That was a dry race.

There is safety but they are the best drivers in the world. They should be able to drive in wet conditions. If they can't then the level of competition in F1 is simply very poor now compared to ten years ago.

[steveaki13]

I bet you long for Imola 94 too

While I agree about the spray, No one wants these type of days back.

Thats being a bit unreasonable.

[The Black Knight]

While I agree about the spray, No one wants these type of days back.

Thats being a bit unreasonable.

And I don't long for those dark days either, brother.

However, cars lapping to the point of intermediates is simply ridiculous.

Also, making the cars start under the safety car is ridiculous.

Other than that I thought the stewards had a fine day in the office.

[Rollo]

I think that the reason to suspend the race had nothing to do with spray but free standing water.

On the run from turns 8 & 9 to L'Epingle (the hairpin) and back up Casino Straight, during the stoppage there were crews with shovels and ploughs scooping the water off the track.

F1 cars do not have a specified minimum ride height (though it might be implied by the skid blocks under the car), this means that they run very close to the ground indeed. If the water was sufficiently deep enough, then instead of just the wheels aquaplaning, the whole underside of the car would act as a giant aquaplaning thing with a couple of fins underneath.
That's all fine but the drivers are paid to drive cars, not ill-handling boats.

Charlie Whiting would have been talking to Bernd Maylander and the racing drivers, so this was more of a consensus thing than you probably expect.

I think that the stewards made the right call.

[555-04Q2]

The way the FIA pussy footed around yesterday was embarassing. These are supposedly the best drivers in he world. Supposedly. I don't give a flying fu@k if they need to convert their cars to row boats to race, just race dammit and drive according to the conditions just like we all have to do when it rains.

[Mia 01]

Race control did the right thing, there was enough crashes as it was.

[The Black Knight]

Poor taste Daniel.

Back to the point though, Whilst I agree that part of the race yesterday was needed to be halted and it was, I do think they dragged it out longer than was needed. Di Resta and Hamilton agreed the race should not have been started behind, mainly because they had the most to gain, but it once again robbed us of the squabble into turn 1. Its one of the most exciting starts on the calendar, and we missed out IMO. Nevermind, once the race had restarted after the final SC, it was epic and a pleasure to watch. :)

They stopped the race at the right time, I think everyone agrees on that. However, there is no point having wet tyres if drivers won't be allowed to use them so I really figure they should just do away with them.

Safety is always important but, between the safety car start and the drivers not being allowed to drive in fully wet conditions anymore apparently, then F1 should simply get rid of wet tyres if they won't be allowed to use them. I can imagine some of the greats cringing at what transpired yesterday. They are paid enough money to go out and race and they should do it in all conditions unless it is absolutely undrivable. I think most people would agree that after lap 30-31 the track was indeed very drivable.

[SGWilko]

They stopped the race at the right time, I think everyone agrees on that. However, there is no point having wet tyres if drivers won't be allowed to use them so I really figure they should just do away with them.

Safety is always important but, between the safety car start and the drivers not being allowed to drive in fully wet conditions anymore apparently, then F1 should simply get rid of wet tyres if they won't be allowed to use them. I can imagine some of the greats cringing at what transpired yesterday. They are paid enough money to go out and race and they should do it in all conditions unless it is absolutely undrivable. I think most people would agree that after lap 30-31 the track was indeed very drivable.

I think the other issue (besides the nature and intensity of the rain) is that the teams have thus far only had limited running (and for that matter, Pirelli too) on the wet tyres to understand how they perform.

I know that comes across as unprepared, but Pirelli were kind of shoe-horned in at almost the last minute, what with the usual FIA dithering on who to choose to replace the 'stones.

[The Black Knight]

I think the other issue (besides the nature and intensity of the rain) is that the teams have thus far only had limited running (and for that matter, Pirelli too) on the wet tyres to understand how they perform.

I know that comes across as unprepared, but Pirelli were kind of shoe-horned in at almost the last minute, what with the usual FIA dithering on who to choose to replace the 'stones.

A reasonable enough point but they are the best drivers in the world so they should be able to adapt to the new tyres fairly quickly. The only way they will get used to them is by using them in race pace, not behind a safety car at 1/3 the speed.

[Daniel]

A reasonable enough point but they are the best drivers in the world so they should be able to adapt to the new tyres fairly quickly. The only way they will get used to them is by using them in race pace, not behind a safety car at 1/3 the speed.

Such a silly statement. When the planks are hitting water then there is NO way of controlling them AT ALL.

[The Black Knight]

Such a silly statement. When the planks are hitting water then there is NO way of controlling them AT ALL.

Which is why it was right to restart under the safety car but after about 5-6 laps of that they were ready to go racing. The SC car was kept out so long that some drivers were able to go straight onto intermediates so no point in having wet tyres if this is going to be the case.

[Daniel]

Which is why it was right to restart under the safety car but after about 5-6 laps of that they were ready to go racing. The SC car was kept out so long that some drivers were able to go straight onto intermediates so no point in having wet tyres if this is going to be the case.

I agree that this wasn't good, but I think your whole argument is flawed.

[Mark]

Would IndyCar style jet dryers be of any use in this situation?

[F1boat]

I saw the spray but by the time the safety car went in it was dry enough for intermediates, that's my point. It should have come in sooner. No point in having wet tyres if it will always be too wet to use them before it is safe to race.

I long for the days of Donnington 93, Spain 96, Spa 98, Monza 97, Estoril 85 where they were told get out there and race, and no pussy footing crap.
I second that. When I saw the torrential rain I was 100% supportive of a red flag, but the safety car situation in the restart, ridiculous. And I think that yes, now F1 will race only in dry and intermediate conditions. Today, everything is like that :(

[Mark]

Following the chat of the race we were saying "Where's F1Boat"? :D

[555-04Q2]

:laugh:

[Sonic]

The red flag was the right thing to do, however the race should never have been started under the safety car in the first place, and nor should the restart. Anyone who watched motoGP will know what wet weather skill looks like, current F1 drivers have become big cry babies wet it comes to the wet stuff.

[SGWilko]

The red flag was the right thing to do, however the race should never have been started under the safety car in the first place, and nor should the restart. Anyone who watched motoGP will know what wet weather skill looks like, current F1 drivers have become big cry babies wet it comes to the wet stuff.

Indeed, I don't understand the rationale of running the restart behind the safety car, let alone running for so long behind said safety car. Nonetheless, it was in the end a cracking good race which I thoroughtly enjoyed, and hats off to the BBC for sticking with it.

[Sonic]

^^^ spot on mate. Martin quoted a figure of 60 litres per second could be lifted off the track by the full wet. Therefore as soon as the tyres can cope it's time to go racing, simple as that. If you are talking on the radio about inters whilst still under the safety car the race could and should have been underway for a good ten laps. It's just pathetic.

[ioan]

Did you not see the spray?

What spray?
Even Massa of all people said after 1 lap behind the SC that it was OK to start the race. Just because Button was afraid (he was the one asking for more SC car laps) it doesn't mean it is really bad.

Maybe F1 should just ban wet racing like they do on the US ovals, one more reason for me to turn 100% to the ALMS/LMS/ILMC/Le Mans series and forget about these pu$sies who are allergic to water.

[ioan]

The red flag was the right thing to do, however the race should never have been started under the safety car in the first place, and nor should the restart. Anyone who watched motoGP will know what wet weather skill looks like, current F1 drivers have become big cry babies wet it comes to the wet stuff.

Anyone remember the wet races of the 80's and 90's? There was no need to pamper the 'racing' drivers back then.
All these new 'young guns' are a bunch of children with no balls when the going gets tough.

[DexDexter]

What spray?
Even Massa of all people said after 1 lap behind the SC that it was OK to start the race. Just because Button was afraid (he was the one asking for more SC car laps) it doesn't mean it is really bad.

Maybe F1 should just ban wet racing like they do on the US ovals, one more reason for me to turn 100% to the ALMS/LMS/ILMC/Le Mans series and forget about these pu$sies who are allergic to water.

I don't get it, we just had a marvellous race and you keep on complaining. I agree that they were too cautious but in the end we had a proper race and that's what matters.

[The Black Knight]

I don't get it, we just had a marvellous race and you keep on complaining. I agree that they were too cautious but in the end we had a proper race and that's what matters.

He is right though. Proper race or not, they should be made race when they are able to do so and not wait because a few drivers are whinging. No driver in their right mind will say it is Ok to race when it isn't. Personally, I feel once two drivers from different teams in the top ten positions on the grid say it is Ok to race then racing should commence. If it wasn't Ok then they simply would say it because they are not stupid.

[Rollo]

Anyone remember the wet races of the 80's and 90's? There was no need to pamper the 'racing' drivers back then.
All these new 'young guns' are a bunch of children with no balls when the going gets tough.

Yeah.
We should have just waited till most of the field crashed, so we could end up with four finishers and have a Virgin win.

[SGWilko]

Yeah.
We should have just waited till most of the field crashed, so we could end up with four finishers and have a Virgin win.

Richard? Is that you? ;)

[wedge]

Yeah.
We should have just waited till most of the field crashed, so we could end up with four finishers and have a Virgin win.

2007 Japanese GP

or how about 2008 British GP where every other driver apart from Hamilton was spinning off left, right and centre on inters.

[SGWilko]

2007 Japanese GP

or how about 2008 British GP where every other driver apart from Hamilton was spinning off left, right and centre on inters.

Isn't there a penalty we can muster up for not spinning in the wet on inters at Siverstone? :p

[The Black Knight]

2007 Japanese GP

or how about 2008 British GP where every other driver apart from Hamilton was spinning off left, right and centre on inters.

Or Spain 1996, Monza 1997, Monaco 96. God forbid the drivers abilities be tested to the max. :rolleyes:

[Mark]

Of course part of the difference back in the day is that you were allowed to change the entire setup on the car before the race if it's wet. These days with Parc Ferme rules you can't do that so you are bascially trying to race cars set up for the dry.

[555-04Q2]

So change the rules. The FIA seem to love doing that.

[ioan]

I don't get it, we just had a marvellous race and you keep on complaining. I agree that they were too cautious but in the end we had a proper race and that's what matters.

Proper race? :rolleyes:
This was the race with most laps run under SC in the history of F1, and that even before Button punted Alonso, due to the track not being dry enough for some pansies to go racing.

[ioan]

Vettel was having a good old whinge too just before they broadcasted Button's messages so he wasn't alone. Vettel did have alot more to lose at that point though and may have been tactical. Who knows?

Same goes for Vettel, a pansy.

[ioan]

2007 Japanese GP

or how about 2008 British GP where every other driver apart from Hamilton was spinning off left, right and centre on inters.

I wonder why they went for inters if it was that wet.

Anyway, with every wet race we get the SC is staying out longer and longer. We'll get to the point where races will be postponed due to a slight chance of rain.

[ioan]

Of course part of the difference back in the day is that you were allowed to change the entire setup on the car before the race if it's wet. These days with Parc Ferme rules you can't do that so you are bascially trying to race cars set up for the dry.

Stupid rules that remove the interesting part of the races just so that we can get DRS with two activation zones and only one detection line. Oh well... :\

[wedge]

I wonder why they went for inters if it was that wet.

Poor weather prediction. Most assumed there would be no rain in the second stint and never changed for fresh.

It wasn't wet more damp till later. People raved about how great Barrichello's choice was on jumping onto wets but there was Hamilton being told to slow down and still on inters and still won that day.

Perhaps the greatest drive I have ever witnessed. Certainly up there with those great wins from Fangio and JYS at the 'Ring all those years ago.

[ioan]

Poor weather prediction. Most assumed there would be no rain in the second stint and never changed for fresh.

It wasn't wet more damp till later. People raved about how great Barrichello's choice was on jumping onto wets but there was Hamilton being told to slow down and still on inters and still won that day.

Perhaps the greatest drive I have ever witnessed. Certainly up there with those great wins from Fangio and JYS at the 'Ring all those years ago.

So all we need in F1 is to let them race when it's wet, no need for crappy tires and stupid DRS like solutions.

[Garry Walker]

It was a joke yesterday, the track was good enough to race on far before they finally restarted the race. Pansies.


Anyone remember the wet races of the 80's and 90's? There was no need to pamper the 'racing' drivers back then.
All these new 'young guns' are a bunch of children with no balls when the going gets tough.
With the exception of Hamilton, me thinks.

[The Black Knight]

It was a joke yesterday, the track was good enough to race on far before they finally restarted the race. Pansies.


With the exception of Hamilton, me thinks.
Yeah, Button was the only one complaining that it wasn't safe to race around lap 33 or so. It galls me that he ever became world champion.

I'd love to know Schumacher's take on whether they should have gone racing or not. The whole fiasco was a joke.

[schmenke]

Of course part of the difference back in the day is that you were allowed to change the entire setup on the car before the race if it's wet. These days with Parc Ferme rules you can't do that so you are bascially trying to race cars set up for the dry.

That’s a very good point Mark.
I recall having a discussion here not too long ago where it was suggested that the regulations be modified, in the event of a wet race, to delay the start long enough to allow adjustments to the car to accommodate wet weather.

[ioan]

With the exception of Hamilton, me thinks.

Probably, but he completely lacks brains so it somehow evens out.