New to IndyCar

[dunk106]

Hi! Im from Europe. Im new in racing stuff but i want to start follow nascar, f1, indycar and stuff... now im trying to learn something about indycar. im reading info for few days so meybe i write here what i think is indycar and you would correct my point of view.

so indycar is usa open wheel racing.

there are 3 series: indycar series, firestone indy lights and usf2000 national championship.

all started back in 1902 and to 1955 it was American Automobile Association (AAA). From 1956 to 1978 it was United States Auto Club (USAC). To 1995 there were Championship Auto Racing Teams (CART) with little help from Sports Car Club of America (SCCA) and USAC. Indianapolis 500 was in USAC however best teams were in CART and that was main thing. In 1996 Indy Racing League was founded and there were IRL and CART. I dont know where Indianapolis 500 was and which one of this two was main. And this is how it was to 2003. CART was renamed to Champ Car Open Wheel Racing Series and later to Champ Car World Series (CCWS). But there was finnancial probles and CCWS authorized bankruptcy and was absorbed to the IRL. From this time there is only one. Before this season name was renamed to IndyCar. ok this is what ive lerned correct me if its wrong, please.

and here ive got some more questions.
can we say that all that time is indycar history or all of it its different racing and its not one. meybe its open wheel in usa history. or how to call it?

is word indycar is only for irl and now indycar. i mean when people started to using this name. i heard that irl had problems with it so is cart also was indycar? i hope you know what i mean

how to call all this stuff like irl, cart etc. leagues? or how. you saw that i had problem with it ;D

how people call cars. because i dont believe that people call it "open wheel cars". indy cars or how?


now thats all but i will hit with some questions again, thanks! oh and sorry for my english i hope you understand me ;)

[Mr. Mister]

Hi! Im from Europe. Im new in racing stuff but i want to start follow nascar, f1, indycar and stuff... now im trying to learn something about indycar. im reading info for few days so meybe i write here what i think is indycar and you would correct my point of view.

so indycar is usa open wheel racing.

there are 3 series: indycar series, firestone indy lights and usf2000 national championship.

all started back in 1902 and to 1955 it was American Automobile Association (AAA). From 1956 to 1978 it was United States Auto Club (USAC). To 1995 there were Championship Auto Racing Teams (CART) with little help from Sports Car Club of America (SCCA) and USAC. Indianapolis 500 was in USAC however best teams were in CART and that was main thing. In 1996 Indy Racing League was founded and there were IRL and CART. I dont know where Indianapolis 500 was and which one of this two was main. And this is how it was to 2003. CART was renamed to Champ Car Open Wheel Racing Series and later to Champ Car World Series (CCWS). But there was finnancial probles and CCWS authorized bankruptcy and was absorbed to the IRL. From this time there is only one. Before this season name was renamed to IndyCar. ok this is what ive lerned correct me if its wrong, please.

and here ive got some more questions.
can we say that all that time is indycar history or all of it its different racing and its not one. meybe its open wheel in usa history. or how to call it?

is word indycar is only for irl and now indycar. i mean when people started to using this name. i heard that irl had problems with it so is cart also was indycar? i hope you know what i mean

how to call all this stuff like irl, cart etc. leagues? or how. you saw that i had problem with it ;D

how people call cars. because i dont believe that people call it "open wheel cars". indy cars or how?


now thats all but i will hit with some questions again, thanks! oh and sorry for my english i hope you understand me ;)

Hello! Great to see you here, and glad you have an interest in auto racing! It's a great passion, really. It's served me well for many years, with great stories and personalities and, of course, cars and action and speed.

You have a solid knowledge to begin with. There is one more series in the Road to Indy with USF2000 and Indy Lights...it's Star Mazda, and is the step between those two. The Indy 500 was part of the Indy Racing League after the split. :)

The term for all-time history is now IndyCar history. The record books from all the top level championships in the history have been merged into one under the IndyCar name. Finally!

CART held the name IndyCar Series for a while; the IRL began using it when those rights expired. Now they are all in one IZOD IndyCar Series, of course, sanctioned by INDYCAR (formerly IRL). Confusing, I know.

There's no real rules for what to call what. People have all sorts of terms for it. Everything can be called IndyCar now, but if you would like to be clear and historically accurate, you can still use those terms (i.e. the U.S. 500 was a CART race; it was also an IndyCar race. Either is correct, though I suppose calling it a CART race would be the clearest thing to do).

The cars are usually referred to as IndyCars in general. I've seen open-wheel cars, open-wheelers, Dallaras, Dallara-Hondas, Dallara/Honda/Firestones to get really specific...I'd stick with IndyCars.

Welcome again, glad to have you!

[dunk106]

big thanks man, really. what about schedule? is indycar schedule is same every season? races are the same? i know for sure that indianapolis 500 is always in last may weekend/and some of your holidays. and what about other races grand prix of long beach sao paulo indy 300 etc are every year, yes?

and now about race tracks. there are 3 types, yes? ovals, street circuits and race circuits. where are the biggest speeds? i guess that on oval? and i know that on oval like in nascar there is only left turning, are on circuits drivers also turn right? i want to know because there is much time to next circuit, couple of oval are next in schedule.

what about fanbase? is it big in states and world. i know that meybe not as big as f1 or nascar but hmmm... do you think is it big worldwide? i heard stereotypes about racing fanbase in us that its only white, racist, 50s from smaller towns. i said that i heard that its stereotypes because i cant know. in europe thing are little different that behind the seas. i just want to know. i think that no becuase there are races in brazil, japan ive seen black drivers, dont know about fanbase but i dont know much. what is your point of view on that?


ill hit back with some new later, thanks!!!

[Mr. Mister]

big thanks man, really. what about schedule? is indycar schedule is same every season? races are the same? i know for sure that indianapolis 500 is always in last may weekend/and some of your holidays. and what about other races grand prix of long beach sao paulo indy 300 etc are every year, yes?

and now about race tracks. there are 3 types, yes? ovals, street circuits and race circuits. where are the biggest speeds? i guess that on oval? and i know that on oval like in nascar there is only left turning, are on circuits drivers also turn right? i want to know because there is much time to next circuit, couple of oval are next in schedule.

what about fanbase? is it big in states and world. i know that meybe not as big as f1 or nascar but hmmm... do you think is it big worldwide? i heard stereotypes about racing fanbase in us that its only white, racist, 50s from smaller towns. i said that i heard that its stereotypes because i cant know. in europe thing are little different that behind the seas. i just want to know. i think that no becuase there are races in brazil, japan ive seen black drivers, dont know about fanbase but i dont know much. what is your point of view on that?


ill hit back with some new later, thanks!!!

The schedule seems to change a lot year-to-year. The goal is to have it be 50% ovals and 50% road/street courses. They have not achieved this yet, but it's a priority for the management. The Grand Prix of Long Beach has a long tradition and is usually run in April, though the weekend can change. São Paulo is scheduled around Carnival, so that date seems to change every year. They would like to have 20 races in the future and expand to other countries. It's also been said that they are aiming to start the season in February for 2012.

Yep, three types of tracks. The ovals have the highest average speeds, and probably the highest top speeds, as well. Unique challenges everywhere, which makes Indy a diverse and exciting championship. There are both left and right turns on the street and road circuits.

The fan base is growing, but it is a fairly small sport outside of the Indianapolis 500, which is still popular. There is not much TV coverage outside of the U.S., and what is there is usually on pay TV making it hard for viewers to find. In the U.S. itself, not many people watch the races on TV, but there is definitely hope for growth there. The sport seems to have a really nice following in Brazil, and there could be a second race there in 2012.

Those stereotypes are false. You get all different types of people at the track and it's a great atmosphere. It's hard to find the exact demographics of an IndyCar fan, but it does seem to appeal mostly to white men aged 35 and older. The big target for IndyCar is the 18-34 age group, and they are hoping to have more fans from that category. Regardless, there are many different fans of the sport, and most of them are very enjoyable to attend a race with.

You're welcome for the help, by the way. Not a problem at all. :)

[bennybigb]

I call them formula cars, because that is what they are.

Open Wheel is a less descriptive term that includes not only formula cars but also Sprint Cars, Midget Cars and Nascar Modifieds.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Dunk, read all you can on the history of the sport to understand the roots of it. It has evolved from an American sport with front engined cars in the 20's through to the early 60's, to one "invaded" by rear engined cars and the f1 stars from the 60's to an American mainly sport again in the 70's and into the 80's when the Brazilians, Canadians and the rest of the world came in. Also know politics has hurt the sport over the years from time time to time. I think now, for the first time in ages, the sport is run with the right structure and a leader who seems to get the marketing of it. Unfortunately, for a sport that was the number one or tied with NASCAR for number one in TV numbers in 1991 or so, it is now a niche in racing, and with the exception of the Indianapolis 500, not as popular on TV as it used to be.

It is evolving though..and this is a good time to learn about it. The new car is on the horizon, and the schedule is starting to grow again.....

[uncommonsense52]

I'd be careful where you read your [recent] history from, however. There's a TON of fans and people around the sport who, one way or another, have a very "revisionist" history of events around the time of the CART/IRL split. Some will say CART was at fault. Others will blame Tony George and the IRL. Just be careful where you read this stuff, there's some pretty hateful and bitter groups on the internet still upset about the split.

I'd be lying to say I wasn't a little bitter from it still. But I don't presume to tell the story, because I was 5 when all that happened, and so I didn't understand the politics then, and surely don't now that everyone has their own side of the story.

[Mark]

Here's how I see it, and I may be called a fool :p

In the late 1970's the teams involved in IndyCar decided to break away and run things themselves, thus CART was founded. However they carried on racing under the name of IndyCar. CART organised all of the races in the championship, with the exception of the Indy500, which was still controlled by IMS (Indianapolis Motor Speedway, I'm trying not to get into personal naming names here!). However IMS had the same rules for the Indy500 as CART did for the rest of the series and CART awared points for the Indy500 in their championship. Plus IMS licenced the IndyCar name to CART. On the surface there was no difference between IMS/Indy500 and CART.

In the early / mid 90's IndyCar started to become very popular, and was even threatening Formula 1's long held dominant position as the most popular racing series. So much so that Bernie Ecclestone got the FIA to ban non-oval IndyCar races outside of North America, to protect F1!

However IMS was getting increasingly irritated by CART raking in all the cash and recognition for 'their' IndyCar and CART was trying to shorten the Indy500 practice and qualifying process to make it much like any other CART event, since IMS had only the one race, this wasn't going to be acceptable.

CART mishandled the entire thing and IMS decided that they would take their ball (the Indy500) and make their own race series instead, the Indy Racing League or IRL.

To start with the IRL was not popular and if anything the new 'CART' series continued to gain in popularity, these were the days of Montoya, Vasser, Zanardi, Moore. But the pull of the Indy500 was telling over time, teams one by one started to leave CART and go to IndyCar, around the turn of the century the trickle was staring to be a flood. CART carried on, but fatally wounded, until eventually all the teams decided enough was enough and all quit to go to the new IndyCar series.

The background in all of this is that while the 'war' was going on, fans from both sides argued which was best, but the vast majority weren't interested, and went off to watch other things, F1, but notably, NASCAR. We now have an IndyCar which was challenging F1 for popularity around the world, but is now little known. Whereas F1 and NASCAR go from strength to strength.

A lot of talk was of who was going to "win", IRL or CART, the truth is that they both lost.

[Andrewmcm]

I think that covers it very nicely Mark, certainly from a European perspective.

No-one won, everyone related to Indycar lost. NASCAR won in reality.

[dunk106]

everybody says that indycar is rather niche nowdays but i heard that indianapolis 500 is so big. that it is biggest race in states bigger than nascar daytona and rest and that is biggest sports event after super bowl. even bigger than nba finals and world series. is it true? how people are into indycar? i mean if people dont know much about indycar how can they at one day be very big fans etc?

a little about races. indy 500 is different topic. but when im watching videos on internet there are a lot of people at these races. i saw that on firestone twin 275 (how to call it? like that or firestone 550?) there are a lot of people in such a big speedway. i noticed that long beach and st petersburg are also pretty important. sao paulo have so big crowd. i heard that indycar is popular in brasil, anyone can confirm? indy in japan also got nice crowd but in japan people are often freaking about stuff from states and west.

big thanks for answers!!

[nigelred5]

The Indy 500 has been around for so long it is a cultural institution and an event, not just a race, much like the Kentucky Derby Horse race. Hundreds of thousands turn out for a one day event, then all but forget about the sport for another year. In many ways, the 500 and the derby have little to do with the overall sport. It' hard to compare one day events to something like the NHL Stanley Cup, NBA Finals or the World Series. It certainly draws a larger crowd than the super bowl, but they could easily triple the crowd for a Super bowl if there was a facility large enough. The television audience for the suberbowl makes the tv audience for the 500 look like a 3 am infomercial. The rest of the season't tv audience is about equal to that infomercial, and I'd venture to say a good Sham-wow commercial draws about the same audience as Indycar races these days.


Yes, Indycar draws a very good crowd in Brazil, where all racing is second to only futbol. I wouldn't say the same about Japan.

[Leo Krupe]

There's some very good information in this thread, and I'd just like to add to what nigelred said about the TV audience.
According to the New York Times, Super Bowl XLV attracted 111 million viewers (in the USA alone) (source: Super Bowl Ratings Cap Record Year for N.F.L. - NYTimes.com (http://mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/02/07/super-bowl-ratings-cap-record-year-for-n-f-l/)).

By contrast, this year's 500 garnered 5 million households in the US. Respectable, and awfully good news that viewership was up over last year, but nothing compared to the Super Bowl.

[Mark]

By contrast, this year's 500 garnered 5 million households in the US. Respectable, and awfully good news that viewership was up over last year, but nothing compared to the Super Bowl.

The BBC in the UK gets around that many viewers for every Formula 1 Grand Prix, and that's just in the UK.

[Don Capps]

I'd be careful where you read your [recent] history from, however. There's a TON of fans and people around the sport who, one way or another, have a very "revisionist" history of events around the time of the CART/IRL split. Some will say CART was at fault. Others will blame Tony George and the IRL. Just be careful where you read this stuff, there's some pretty hateful and bitter groups on the internet still upset about the split.

I'd be lying to say I wasn't a little bitter from it still. But I don't presume to tell the story, because I was 5 when all that happened, and so I didn't understand the politics then, and surely don't now that everyone has their own side of the story.

You are obviously confusing commentary for "recent history" and then considering anything as "revisionist history" that does not conform to a specifc ideological viewpoint on the issue.

History, by its very nature tends to be "revisionist" simply because it has the benefit of hindsight and can better establish the context and the interpretations of the possible consequences of an event or issue. History -- "real history" as in that written using scholarly standards of research and writing -- also benefits from being written by those who are attempting to achieve objectivity in their writing rather than being written to appeal one ideological faction or another in the matter. Thus far, little attention has been paid by automotive historians to the USAC-CART and CART-IRL schisms. The field has, for the most part, been left to the ideologues and apologists for each faction who have been focused more on the emotional aspects of the issues involved rather than with any matters relating to viewing the past with any sense of objectivity regarding the events.

"Nigel5" brings up a matter that is, perhaps, one of the fundamental issues involved in all this: that the Memorial Day race at the IMS is seen far more as a major sporting event in and of itself rather than as a automobile race per se. He points out that there are those who are great fans of the race, but care little for automobile racing itself. One can observe much the same phenomenon with other major sporting events such as those he named -- Stanley Cup, NBA Finals, World Series --as well as Super Bowl, Kentucky Derby (and the Triple Crown for that matter), and -- for many years -- the Rose Bowl. It both just happens to be an automobile race and, likewise, is considered by many as THE automobile race.

Its place in the firmament is the result of a number of factors, not the least of which was the very effective marketing of the event in its first decades by the IMS and a renewal of that effort after the break caused by WW2.

It should not be overlooked that there has been a very long (and generally colorful) history of discord in American automobile racing, something often overlookedby those focused only on the present.

One of the notable items regarding the history of American automobile history is the lack of what could be considered a "standard" history -- or even a set of standard histories -- on the topic. By this it is meant works written to the standards expected of scholarly history and not those of enthusiast or sports writing.

[Jag_Warrior]

Welcome aboard, Dunk. Always good to see new people gaining an interest in the sport. One word of advice though: in order to better enjoy this sport going forward, you probably shouldn't watch or try to learn about the sport over the past 15-20 years. If you enjoy what you're seeing now, just keep on enjoying it.

My uncle showed me a picture of his "new" wife when she was in her 30's. She was actually pretty hot... back in the day. But I suggest he not stare at that pic too much, and then look at her now. If he likes her the way she is now, he should just stick with that. Like Indy Car, she hasn't aged all that well (IMO).

[DBell]

Welcome aboard, Dunk. Always good to see new people gaining an interest in the sport. One word of advice though: in order to better enjoy this sport going forward, you probably shouldn't watch or try to learn about the sport over the past 15-20 years. If you enjoy what you're seeing now, just keep on enjoying it.

My uncle showed me a picture of his "new" wife when she was in her 30's. She was actually pretty hot... back in the day. But I suggest he not stare at that pic too much, and then look at her now. If he likes her the way she is now, he should just stick with that. Like Indy Car, she hasn't aged all that well (IMO).

Well said Jag. I was thinking the same thing when I first read this.

My advice is the same. Enjoy the history of the sport, like who won races and championships and such. But stay away from the politics and it's history. Nothing to be gained from getting involved after the fact. If you like what your seeing now, then go with it.

[Don Capps]

Enjoy the history of the sport, like who won races and championships and such. But stay away from the politics and it's history. Nothing to be gained from getting involved after the fact.

Of course, there are those who would consider this sort of advice as being utter nonsense and complete tripe. Then again, not being a racing "fan" but rather an automotive historian I tend to have different view of things.

As Leibniz reminds us, "le meilleur des mondes possibles" or "Die Beste aller möglichen Welten," --this is "the best of all possible worlds" -- so it would seem best to conform with the others and steer well clear of the cerebral and stick solely to the visceral aspects of the sport less one become curious as to what is behind the curtain....

[Bob Riebe]

Hello! Great to see you here, and glad you have an interest in auto racing! It's a great passion, really. It's served me well for many years, with great stories and personalities and, of course, cars and action and speed.

You have a solid knowledge to begin with. There is one more series in the Road to Indy with USF2000 and Indy Lights...it's Star Mazda, and is the step between those two. The Indy 500 was part of the Indy Racing League after the split. :)

The term for all-time history is now IndyCar history. The record books from all the top level championships in the history have been merged into one under the IndyCar name. Finally!

CART held the name IndyCar Series for a while; the IRL began using it when those rights expired. Now they are all in one IZOD IndyCar Series, of course, sanctioned by INDYCAR (formerly IRL). Confusing, I know.

There's no real rules for what to call what. People have all sorts of terms for it. Everything can be called IndyCar now, but if you would like to be clear and historically accurate, you can still use those terms (i.e. the U.S. 500 was a CART race; it was also an IndyCar race. Either is correct, though I suppose calling it a CART race would be the clearest thing to do).

The cars are usually referred to as IndyCars in general. I've seen open-wheel cars, open-wheelers, Dallaras, Dallara-Hondas, Dallara/Honda/Firestones to get really specific...I'd stick with IndyCars.

Welcome again, glad to have you!In generic sense- Indy cars or Indianapolis type cars- is a safe bet.

[Bob Riebe]

Here's how I see it, and I may be called a fool :p

In the late 1970's the teams involved in IndyCar decided to break away and run things themselves, thus CART was founded. However they carried on racing under the name of IndyCar. CART organised all of the races in the championship, with the exception of the Indy500, which was still controlled by IMS (Indianapolis Motor Speedway, I'm trying not to get into personal naming names here!). However IMS had the same rules for the Indy500 as CART did for the rest of the series and CART awared points for the Indy500 in their championship. Plus IMS licenced the IndyCar name to CART. On the surface there was no difference between IMS/Indy500 and CART..
Not a fool but off a bit.
CART split from USAC which controlled a chunk of U.S. open wheel racing, and had total control over Indianapolis car racing.
CART split and USAC told CART-- fine go ahead, but you cannot compete in the Indianapolis 500, so CART took USAC to court to be allowed into the Indianapolis 500.
The court allowed forced USAC to allow CART teams into the 500.

The car rules were similar but never the same.
-----------------------------------------------

The way CART treated the 500 and those who controlled it, annoyed Tony George who ran Indianapolis till he finally said screw you, and started the IRL, which unfortunately never was the series he had said he was going to create.

It seems he took the attitude close was good enough, but it never was.

[Bob Riebe]

Here is a copy from another forum of the highlights of the 1967 Riverside 300 mile USAC Indy Car road race.


1967 - Riverside, California, USA...Dan Gurney won a hectic and exciting 'Rex Mays 300' USAC Championship race on the 2.6 mile Riverside International Raceway road course. The season's 21st race closed the 1967 USAC Championship season and decided the points championship. An extra international flavor was added with the entry of two time World Driving Champion Jim Clark and '64 World Champion John Surtees, the latter making his Indy Car debut. Riverside ace Gurney won the pole in his Eagle-Ford, qualifying at 117.735 mph, over 2 mph ahead of 2nd fastest Clark. Surtees qualified 4th and title duelers Mario Andretti and A.J. Foyt started alongside each other in row 3. After an additional lap following a false start, the green flew with Gurney taking the lead with Clark right behind and Roger McCluskey making a great start to move from 7th to 3rd. The field made it to turn 7 before Lloyd Ruby spun his Mongoose-Ford in the middle of the track. Ruby restarted well behind. On lap 2, 5th running Bobby Unser got his Eagle-Ford sideways entering turn 9. Somehow, with cars shooting past on both sides, Unser managed to get slowed, straighten out and keep off the wall. Gordon Johncock, who could have won the championship with a race win, retired his Gerhardt-Ford with gearbox trouble on lap 11. Gurney and Clark were hooked up in a terrific duel for the lead. On the 23rd lap, Gurney went wide in turn 6 and Clark scooted by. Going into turn 9, Gurney challenged for the lead. Exiting the turn, Clark's engine swallowed a valve and the '63 & '65 World Champ could only wave Gurney by. Clark pitted and retired, later admitting he'd missed a shift entering turn 9 and hopelessly overreved the engine on his Vollstedt-Ford. Meanwhile, Foyt had passed Jerry Grant for 5th and was trailing title rival Andretti by 3 seconds. Unless Andretti won, Foyt only needed to stay within 3 positions to lock up the championship. Surtees had run as high as 4th before falling to 8th and pitting on lap 30 with magneto problems. Two laps later the only man to win the World Championship on both two and four wheels retired his Lola-Ford. Gurney was now 18 seconds ahead of McCluskey. Andretti was another 18 seconds back in 3rd and unable to relax as Foyt had closed to within a few yards. Recovering from his near accident, Unser charged back to challenge Foyt. Backing off to conserve his engine and fuel, Foyt allowed Unser by, breaking up the title battlers. Foyt's insurance plan of Jim Hurtubise in a back-up Coyote-Ford fell apart when officials black flagged Hurtubise for an oil leak. It took another twist when officials waved the car behind the wall and the crew discovered the problem to be a repairable oil line valve. But, since the car had gone behind the pit wall, USAC officials ruled the car out of the race. As if this wasn't enough, just as the back-up car was being pushed away, Al Miller spun in the esses and collected Foyt's Coyote-Ford which went off course. Instantly, Foyt jumped out of his car and ran the 1/2 mile back to the pits. Upon reaching the pits and being told his back-up car was out, Foyt breathlessly ran to McCluskey's pit and asked if he could take over the 2nd place car. McCluskey's crew immediately signalled him in which caused the gasping Foyt to mumble "Couldn't you have waited one more lap until I caught my breath?." With a look of surprise on his face, McCluskey came into the pits. He quickly realized the situation when he saw Foyt hurrying to get in the cockpit. It was a quick change despite Foyt having to bend the steering wheel a bit to get his legs in the car. The car was refueled at the same time. While this way going on, Andretti pitted for fuel. After 30 second stops for both, Foyt got out of the pits first, with Andretti not far behind. After just one lap, Foyt returned to the pits, pointing to the front of the car. It took the crew about 10 seconds to realize he was pointing at the fuel cap which hadn't been closed. The stop put Andretti ahead of the frustrated Foyt. As Foyt left the pits, Gurney came in for a 26 second fuel stop which gave the lead to Unser. Two laps later, Unser pitted giving Andretti the lead. On lap 62, Joe Leonard's Mongoose-Ford hit the wall in turn 6 to bring out the race's only full course caution. The green came out again on lap 66 with Gurney immediately passing Andretti for the lead. Unser was 3rd, the last car on the lead lap with Foyt, in McCluskey's car, a lap back in 6th. The race took yet another dramatic turn on lap 72 when Gurney roared into the pits with a right rear going flat. A hush fell over the crowd with their local hero's stop. After the tire was changed, Gurney roared out of the pits sideways, obviously not giving up despite the time lost. Unser was now 2nd and Gurney's stop had dropped him 1 minute, 5 seconds behind Andretti. Gurney immediately began lapping an even 2 seconds a lap faster than Andretti. With 40 laps to go, he could catch Andretti, but could he pass?. On lap 74, 4th running Grant retired with magneto trouble. By the end of lap 90 with 26 to go, Andretti was maintaining a 4 second lead over Unser with Gurney now another 28 seconds back. Foyt was struggling in the McCluskey car and finally brought it in on lap 99. Fuel was added as the crew looked at the rear of the car. A halfshaft had broken and was lying inside the boot, not applying power to the left rear wheel. 30 seconds later, Foyt returned still in 5th. Andretti had pulled out another second on Unser with Gurney shaving off an additional 10. But, then on lap 111, a roar went up from the crowd as Andretti pulled into the pits signalling for fuel. It was only a 12 second stop, but dropped him to 3rd as Unser and Gurney both went by. With 4 to go, Unser was 3 seconds ahead of Gurney, but Gurney kept closing the gap. In turn 9, coming down for the white flag, Gurney dived under Unser for the lead. Gurney went on to cross the line 4 seconds ahead of Unser with a visibly disturbed Andretti 3rd. One lap back, Ruby was 4th and Foyt 5th. Andretti's late stop and Foyt's 5th gave Foyt his 5th USAC Indy Car title. The fun wasn't over as after the race Andretti's crew chief Clint Brawner protested the weight and engine size of Gurney's Eagle. USAC officials found Gurney's engine 4 cubic inches under the maximum allowed and the car heavier than the minimum weight. In return, Richie Ginther of Gurney's All-American Racers team protested Andretti's fuel tank, which also was found legal by officials.

[Don Capps]

"dunk106" --

Not sure why you and others assume that it "all started back in 1902..." given that automotive contests, to include track racing, were already underway before the AAA was formed in March 1902 and the Racing Board soon after. In 1908, the AAA Racing Board changed its name to the "Contest Board" and in March 1909 assumed the role as the sanctioning body for US national racing under the auspices of the Manufacturers Contest Association (MCA). In August 1955, after the Le Mans tragedy and other factors, which are often overlooked, the AAA announced that it would cease acting as the national sanctioning body for automobile racing and the US representative to the CSI of the FIA, a position it had held since replacing the Automobile Club of America (ACA) in 1928.

The United States Auto Club (USAC) was formed in August 1955 and assumed sanctioning in 1956 many of the events that the AAA Contest Board had until its withdrawal in December 1955. Until July 1980 -- not 1978, USAC conducted its national championship series, creating a new series in 1981, the Gold Crown Championship, which after a few seasons with several events was reduced to being solely the Memorial Day weekend event.

The Championship Auto Racing Teams (CART) was formed in 1978 and, with the SCCA serving as its sanctioning group with ACCUS, held its first season in 1979. It folded in late 2003 and the Champ Car World Series (CCWS) came into being in early 2004 assuming most of the assets of CART, until it folded in early 2008.

The Indy Racing League was formed in 1994 and held its first season in 1996, using USAC as its sanctioning body on the ACCUS.

The AAA, USAC (including the Gold Crown), CART, IRL, and CCWS national championships are all separate, distinct entities. They are not the same. And, please, there were not a AAA national championship until 1916 -- although there was a AAA "National Motor Car Championship" in 1905 (Barney Oldfield being the champion). The national championship skipped the war years and resumed in 1920, once again skipping the war years (1942-1945) and resuming in 1946 (when nearly all Big Car events -- Championship and Sprint -- counted towards the national championship, 77 of them) and then ending with the 1955 season.

"Indy Car" is a relatively recent term whose origins I have never bothered to look very deeply into.

The International 500 Mile Sweepstakes was held under AAA sanction from 1911 to 1955 and USAC sanction from 1956 until 1997, the IRL sanctioning it since then.

[garyshell]

The Championship Auto Racing Teams (CART) was formed in 1978 and, with the SCCA serving as its sanctioning group with ACCUS, held its first season in 1979. It folded in late 2003 and the Champ Car World Series (CCWS) came into being in early 2004 assuming most of the assets of CART, until it folded in early 2008.

<snip>

"Indy Car" is a relatively recent term whose origins I have never bothered to look very deeply into.

Those two statements alone speak volumes. First, CCWS didn't just "fold". It agreed to a "reunification" of sorts with the IRL.

And "Indycar" in and of itself encompasses the recent history of the sport. While the ancient history you seem so fond of quoting and referencing has a certain bearing on the current state of affairs, in reality it has less to do with the machinations of where we find ourselves today than the the origin of that term, "Indycar" that you so willing toss to the curb as if it had no significance at all.

Gary

[Jag_Warrior]

There are many ways to enjoy the sport. It's quite difficult, maybe impossible as a newby, to have any insight or appreciation for what went before. The best approach is to learn about and appreciate what is happening today. Then, if you are so inclined and as your experience broadens, you can go deeper into the "history" of how and why it got that way. That will all take time and, as Don Capps so clearly points out, will also be a labor of love to eventually separate fact from myth.


^^^This.

My point was not that one should only pay attention to those aspects which are visceral, and ignore the cerebral, or to be a conformist lemming. But as many/most of us here know, the past 10-15 years have been anything but pleasant. So as one enters as a new fan, I feel that it's more important to try to find things that are pleasing to the eye than to treat it like an academic exercise, which REQUIRES a close study of all aspects.

Sure, he can take a peak behind the curtain. And before he can learn the names of the regular drivers that are in the series now, he could ask why the current ratings aren't even half of what they were in 1995? And why we no longer have any F1 World Driving Champions in the series... but NASCAR does?! And why don't F1 teams even offer to test IRL drivers these days? And why aren't any of the current drivers household names... why is Mario the one who does Honda commercials, instead of the ones who race now? He can do the old "7 Why's", and by the time he's done... he'll probably also be done with following this series any longer. And God help him if he listens to Mark Knopfler's "Speedway at Nazareth". If he does that, he should probably unload all of the guns in his house and keep some anti-depressants handy. Fantastic song, but it reminds one of how painful (the current) reality is.

I fully respect Don's position - and I'm not being critical of him or his passion. I'm not much of an automotive or racing historian. My passion for history revolves around my almost unhealthy obsession with ancient Rome. When your girl begins calling you by the Latinized/Romance version of your name, it's safe to say things may have gotten out of hand. But I enjoy that. I love reading about every little detail that I can find. So I respect his perspective. But I don't see it as a requirement for those who just want to watch an episode or two of Rome, while they munch on some popcorn.

There's nothing wrong with just enjoying something for what it (currently) is, IMO. And though some here still seem to question my sincerity, "I'm trying, Ringo... I'm really trying."

[Don Capps]

Those two statements alone speak volumes. First, CCWS didn't just "fold". It agreed to a "reunification" of sorts with the IRL.

And "Indycar" in and of itself encompasses the recent history of the sport. While the ancient history you seem so fond of quoting and referencing has a certain bearing on the current state of affairs, in reality it has less to do with the machinations of where we find ourselves today than the the origin of that term, "Indycar" that you so willing toss to the curb as if it had no significance at all.

Gary

To even The Untrained Eye, the whole face-saving notion of "reunification" was a polite farce. To begin with, there was nothing to "reunify" since CCWS and IRL were never part of the same fabric to begin with; and, had there not been a deal with the IRL the likelihood of the CCWS surviving for any length of time was somewhere between zero and none. It was a matter of expedience and an unusually wise political move, especially in light of the many hamfisted moves on the part of the participants in this civil war over the years.

That you state that the CCWS "'agreed to a "reunification' of sorts with the IRL." would appear to support this interpretation.

As for the term "IndyCar," your remark also speaks volumes. It certainly seems to predate the formation of the IRL in 1994 and the current series, emerging at some point in the middle to latter part of the Seventies and entering the racing lexicon by the early Eighties. It appears to have served as a means for the PR people -- whether USAC or CART is open to question-- to promote the championship cars when they raced at venues other than the IMS. At least that is what it would appear from even a cursory glance at the goings-on of the period. As to whom may have "invented" or first used the term, that is largely a matter for the trivia experts. That said, the term has become to be associated with this sort of racing and is now apparently inseparable.

What is interesting is the term itself, which would suggest a significant part of the problem with this type of racing as a series. That is, of course, the 364 kilogram gorilla in the room.

[Bob Riebe]

And "Indycar" in and of itself encompasses the recent history of the sport. While the ancient history you seem so fond of quoting and referencing has a certain bearing on the current state of affairs, in reality it has less to do with the machinations of where we find ourselves today than the the origin of that term, "Indycar" that you so willing toss to the curb as if it had no significance at all.

GaryThe past IS the only reason Incdy car type racing is where it is at.
For a newbie to speak to a IRL or CART or USAC person and not know how they hated each other and that caused Indy cars to be where they are at, is a false rainbow.

[Mark in Oshawa]

The passion continues on what happened during the various splits. For someone new, it is all pretty weird and not attractive if you ask me.

I know, I am as guilty as the next for seeing my version of events, but going forward, I am enthusiastic about the future and that is key.

The politics of what went on in the past is proof positive of how most great racing series needs a benovolent dictator who makes the right decisions on behalf of the series and keeps the team owners and track owners in line to pursue a goal that is the best interest of all long term. Indycar racing is proof positive of the folly of letting the team owners or one track owner run things. The true reality is, a series is best served when the people at the top make decisions for the betterment of all. I am not always convinced ISC's close connection with NASCAR has served THAT sport well all the time although they have done well to keep their distance, and while I like Randy, I am sure it is only because Mari and the daughters have seen what happens when someone without a marketing sense tries to run things....ideally, I would like the series to be distanced from IMS Management....

[NaBUru38]

everybody says that indycar is rather niche nowdays but i heard that indianapolis 500 is so big. that it is biggest race in states bigger than nascar daytona and rest and that is biggest sports event after super bowl. even bigger than nba finals and world series. is it true? how people are into indycar? i mean if people dont know much about indycar how can they at one day be very big fans etc?
The Indianapolis 500 is the most attended sports competition of the United States, simply because Indianapolis can seat around 400,000 people versus 110,000 for the largest stadiums in the Western Hemisphere. Television ratings in the United States are higher in Daytona 500 than in Indanapolis 500, but viceversa outside the country.


i noticed that long beach and st petersburg are also pretty important. sao paulo have so big crowd. i heard that indycar is popular in brasil, anyone can confirm?
IndyCar is very popular in Brazil. They have had a race at an oval in Jacarepaguá from 1996 to 2000 and at the streets of Sao Paulo since 2010. They will propbably have a second race in Porto Alegre, only 700km from my hometown :) Brazil has had several IndyCar race winners, like Emerson Fittipaldi, Hélio Castroenves and Tony Kanaan.

But the second most important race is the Grand Prix of Long Beach, at least for those who respect road/temporary courses as much as ovals. It has nearly 40 years of history. It's the Monaco of the Americas, just that it's not the most important race.

Driving Experience (http://www.racingadventure.com/)

The “Richard Petty Driving Experience Canadian Summer Tour” will kick off on July 9th at Kawartha and includes eleven days on the aforementioned tracks over a nearly three week period, wrapping up at Riverside on July 24th. RPDE will offer the “Rookie Experience,” its signature driving program, and a “High-Speed Ride-Along”, which simulates a NASCAR qualifying run, in scheduled sessions during the tour.

Found this on trip advisor

"My husband thought this was rather touristy but once in the car he thought it was a blast. He did the ride along and would have loved to drive it himself if we had the time.

"

Driving Experience (http://www.racingadventure.com/)

The “Richard Petty Driving Experience Canadian Summer Tour” will kick off on July 9th at Kawartha and includes eleven days on the aforementioned tracks over a nearly three week period, wrapping up at Riverside on July 24th. RPDE will offer the “Rookie Experience,” its signature driving program, and a “High-Speed Ride-Along”, which simulates a NASCAR qualifying run, in scheduled sessions during the tour.

Found this on trip advisor

"My husband thought this was rather touristy but once in the car he thought it was a blast. He did the ride along and would have loved to drive it himself if we had the time.

"