24 hours race is coming

[mclarenf1gtr]

Hi,
because this fact, may be it can be interesting the words Dr. Ulrich about Formula 1 and endurance:
'Let me show you how – at Le Mans, one of our cars will cover 325 miles more than an F1 car will cover in an entire season, our average speed including pits stops will be 20mph higher than an F1 car and we will use 42% less fuel. '
Although this position is not new, you can read here (http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/carracing/CAR-Racing/Why-Audi-Thinks-F1-Is-Irrelevant/) about the reasons why Audi says NO to Formula 1.
Sure, I don't want to start a battle between followers of either endurance or formula 1, because I like both (beyond Fernando Alonso), although I do prefer endurance races. May be because I can shot a lot of photos in these races, without being highly stressed :cool: .

[FormerFF]

After the race, when someone asks who won an F1 race, the answer is always the driver's name. At Le Mans, the same question is almost always answered with the manufacturer's name.

[Tom206wrc]

Hi,
because this fact, may be it can be interesting the words Dr. Ulrich about Formula 1 and endurance:
'Let me show you how – at Le Mans, one of our cars will cover 325 miles more than an F1 car will cover in an entire season, our average speed including pits stops will be 20mph higher than an F1 car and we will use 42% less fuel. '
Although this position is not new, you can read here (http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/carracing/CAR-Racing/Why-Audi-Thinks-F1-Is-Irrelevant/) about the reasons why Audi says NO to Formula 1.
Sure, I don't want to start a battle between followers of either endurance or formula 1, because I like both (beyond Fernando Alonso), although I do prefer endurance races. May be because I can shot a lot of photos in these races, without being highly stressed :cool: .




Unfortuneately most spanish medias don't care of a victory from Marc Gené in endurance, they only watch Fernando Alonso in F1(whatever his result is) :mad:

[Mark]

After the race, when someone asks who won an F1 race, the answer is always the driver's name. At Le Mans, the same question is almost always answered with the manufacturer's name.

Because saying several drivers names is too complicated? :p

[ioan]

The most important race of the year, no question about it.

[AndyRAC]

The most important race of the year, no question about it.

Yes, though even this fantastic race has been marginalised by the media, sadly.

[ioan]

Yes, though even this fantastic race has been marginalised by the media, sadly.

Agree. :\
But there is always internet with live streaming! :)

[Tom206wrc]

Plenty of pics of the scruteneering on http://www.motorsport.com/#/lemans/photos/main-gallery/ (http://www.motorsport.com/) :cool:

[mclarenf1gtr]

Have you seen this?


http://youtu.be/prQ1_obf_gg

[mclarenf1gtr]

Plenty of pics of the scruteneering on Motorsport.com (http://www.motorsport.com/#/lemans/photos/main-gallery/) :cool:

Thanks for this link

[DavePI2]

ever since 1964 when abc had a speciall live showing of the start and other various parts of lemans it has always been the one race I have dreamed of going too. It hasn't changed , I still want to make the trip to the greatest race in the world before I die.

david

[F1boat]

For me the trouble is the coverage - I watched Q1 and I think that 60% of it was boring pics in the pit. Maybe purists love this thing and sure it has awesome atmosphere and great cars, but the way it's showed, it is a bit boring :(

[Mekola]

Good for Pérez Companc/Russo/Kaffer, #39 Pecom Racing who were 4th on the LMP2 class after qualifying.

[Alfa Fan]

For me the trouble is the coverage - I watched Q1 and I think that 60% of it was boring pics in the pit. Maybe purists love this thing and sure it has awesome atmosphere and great cars, but the way it's showed, it is a bit boring :(

It shouldn't be that pit-biased in the race. I think its because not all the cameras are in place until the race.

[Alfa Fan]

They just said on the TV coverage a car took off in one of the warm up races like the Mercedes did in 1999. Has anyone any more info on that?

[Alfa Fan]

So both Aston's could be out after 10 minutes. That's even worse than feared!

[SkodaSRT]

A real shame for Aston Martin

[Alfa Fan]

OMG. Thats a terrible crash. Shocking.

[Sonic]

Ah god! Thats the worst shunt I've seen in any series for a very long time. Thank god he's walking away.

[Mark]

He's fine! :D

[Sonic]

Seeing that again - how did none of the photographers get hit? My hearts still in my mouth

[Mark]

Everyone very lucky there. Just inches away from those behind the barriers.

[gm99]

I was more worried about the photographers/spectators, but thankfully they all seem to be okay as well...

[Daniel]

Jeezus........

[Allyc85]

Hucking fell! Drivers and everyone involved so, so lucky there!

[MrJan]

MOLY!!! Glad to see him walk away, no doubt feeling a bit dazed. Hope that all behind the barriers are fine, didn't see a lot of fuss so looks like they're fine but there was a lot of debris flying.

A few years back I moaned about the fencing there but the top of the catchment only just caught everything big. And how scary was that wheel?!!

[Daniel]

MOLY!!! Glad to see him walk away, no doubt feeling a bit dazed. Hope that all behind the barriers are fine, didn't see a lot of fuss so looks like they're fine but there was a lot of debris flying.

A few years back I moaned about the fencing there but the top of the catchment only just caught everything big. And how scary was that wheel?!!

What was scarier were the people just standing there as the wheel came towards them!!!!

[anthonyvop]

I have been shooting racing for almost 20 years.

Why they even allow photographers on the outside of an apex is stupid.

Why a photographer would shoot from that spot is even dumber.

[wedge]

A daft move by McNish. Barely an hour into the race and 'Nishy' tries a dive bomb. Just as Ant predicted with the new rules, P1&P2 drivers will take greater risks with traffic.

A good example why we have car park style run off. The gravel did bugger all to slow the car down and the Audi simply skated over.

[MrJan]

A daft move by McNish. Barely an hour into the race and 'Nishy' tries a dive bomb. Just as Ant predicted with the new rules, P1&P2 drivers will take greater risks with traffic.

A good example why we have car park style run off. The gravel did bugger all to slow the car down and the Audi simply skated over.

They were suggesting that he may not have realised that the Ferrari was there, if that's the case then the move wasn't really that silly

[00steven]

Very lucky indeed. But I fear one day our luck will run out...

[MrJan]

Very lucky indeed. But I fear one day our luck will run out...

Nature of the sport sadly, shouldn't stop us racing or striving to improve safety. Even a decade ago this crash would have had more severe consequences, we should be grateful for those advances.

[Daniel]

I think like wedge says, perhaps we need some tarmac runoff and some higher barriers

[truefan72]

They were suggesting that he may not have realised that the Ferrari was there, if that's the case then the move wasn't really that silly


that is the way I saw it too. But it still was an unecessary overtake at that stage of the race, simply wait for the long straights to overtake

thankfully everyone walked away from it. but it was an almighty shunt

BTW, that audi is a thing of beauty

[MrJan]

I think like wedge says, perhaps we need some tarmac runoff and some higher barriers

Trouble is that MotoGP goes there and tarmac runoff doesn't do much for bikes.

[truefan72]

that Peugeot is also a great looking car

and wurz is driving the heck out of the #1 car

[big_sw2000]

Not to sure a tarmac run off would have done any good, that car was trying to get airbourn.
Im not a fan of that ugly shark fin, but i belive it did its job. If that car had got airbourn, like Stefan Ortelle at Monza, then we would of been looking at injuries or worse in the spectators.
Fair play to the strength of the car. One lucky Scots man.

[Ranger]

Christ almighty, there could have been several fatalities there. Enormous.

[Mark]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2Nb0Ienv6k&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[gm99]

Seems like the Peugeots are a bit less fuel-thirsty than the Audis. Should be an interesting show-down between the two makes (with me keeping my fingers crossed for a third Le Mans victory for Alex Wurz).

[Sonic]

YouTube - ‪Allan McNish Huge Crash 2011 Le Mans 24 Hours‬‏ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2Nb0Ienv6k&feature=youtube_gdata_player)

I've watched it so many times now and I've still no idea how he didn't end up in the access road. If you slow mo it, the front two wheels do clear the barrier whilst the car is inverted, but its almost like the hand of god pushes it back onto the race track side.

[Daniel]

Big accident . No idea who it is....

[Daniel]

Number 1 Audi. Looks BAD

[Daniel]

**** This does NOT look good

[Daniel]

Clipped a Ferrari. Looks to be nothing left of the car...

[MrJan]

Doesn't look good, is he out of the car?

Got it on mute at the minute

[Daniel]

Rockenfeller out of the car under his own steam apparently? My god those Audi's are strong. Car burnt up?

[TheGrindilow]

Mike is out! Hopefully he will fully recover. Whatis it with the Audi's and Ferrari's in this race. Terrible to see these huge impacts.

Also, i'm new to the forums, thanks to Le Mans for bringing me.

[DavePI2]

never seen so much attention given to this kind of racing on espn. They haven't even heard about the second audi yet.

[Shifter]

I was so frightened, it probably seems dumb of me to make this assumption, but I never would have believed that Rockenfeller got out of the car on his own; so when they were attending to him over the wall I thought he'd been thrown from the car.

The strange thing is, I think it was that very kink on the hunaudieres straight that Jo Bonnier tried to go inside a Ferrari (again), a GTO, and the same thing happened with fatal results.

[christophulus]

Two horrible accidents and two very lucky drivers, not to mention the spectators and photographers. Shows how far the safety has come on.

Thankfully no fatal accidents yet but you do have to wonder how long this run will last.

[MrJan]

I was so frightened, it probably seems dumb of me to make this assumption, but I never would have believed that Rockenfeller got out of the car on his own; so when they were attending to him over the wall I thought he'd been thrown from the car.

The strange thing is, I think it was that very kink on the hunaudieres straight that Jo Bonnier tried to go inside a Ferrari (again), a GTO, and the same thing happened with fatal results.

Not strange at all to make those type of assumptions. As motorsport fans we are sort of prepared or geared towards expecting the worst. Also it hasn't been until very recently that we've begun to see drivers even surviving the type of accident that we've seen these Audi drivers have.

Incidentally this wasn't on the Hunidieres, it was between Mulsanne corner and Indianapolis.

[Daniel]

Well we didn't see the Audi remains properly. I did think it wasn't goo as you could see from my posts.

[Daniel]

Tbh I was fairly sure McNish was OK. I was thinking a marshal or photographer might be badly hurt

[MrJan]

Just seen the accident in real time from the gantry camera. Can't think of anything to say about it....it was, erm...well.....yeah.

[Daniel]

Yeah. Scary stuff. But that's why the drivers get paid a lot more than you or i

[big_sw2000]

Unbelivable, some very strong cars. Fastest part of the track. 2 very lucky Audi drivers.

[Shifter]

Sorry I don't know why I called it the hunandieres...but yeah its the straight with the two kinks ending with the banked right at Indianapolis, a straight I've long maintained is more dangerous than the hunandieres...those two kinks are massively quick and it might be debatable whether or not a GT car can be expected to take an 'outside' line through them to let a Prototype through, especially at night...I guess they can, but it seems really easy for contact to happen there--not sure I'd be brave enough to try to pass a GT there. I too figured McNish might be hurt but I wasn't as scared for him as I was for Rocky, I guess partly because we didn't actually see what happened at first other than the onboard and then the car post-crash.

[focus206]

Two terrible accidents, now I hope Rockenfeller is ok... the only good thing is that at least Audi showed that their cars are really strong

[big_sw2000]

GT cars are not ment to take the outside line. Any prototype driver will tell you. A GT or slower car should stay on the racing line. Its up to the faster car to overtake. In my view thats what the Farrari did, and the Audi dived for a gap that was dissapering.

[Daniel]

I agree sw2000. I wonder if Audi's lights are too bright also.

[truefan72]

I was so frightened, it probably seems dumb of me to make this assumption, but I never would have believed that Rockenfeller got out of the car on his own; so when they were attending to him over the wall I thought he'd been thrown from the car.

The strange thing is, I think it was that very kink on the hunaudieres straight that Jo Bonnier tried to go inside a Ferrari (again), a GTO, and the same thing happened with fatal results.

how true,

for a moment I thought he was finished, and like you when I saw them attending to him, i too thought that he was thrown from the vehicle.
Those Audi's are pretty strong. what a testament to modern race cars

[truefan72]

I've watched it so many times now and I've still no idea how he didn't end up in the access road. If you slow mo it, the front two wheels do clear the barrier whilst the car is inverted, but its almost like the hand of god pushes it back onto the race track side.

I love the raw emotion of the announcer, you can actually hear him say sh!t in german under his breath.
At that moment like everyone else, we thought the worst

in watching that video again, I think mcnish was coming in way too fast, because even if he cleared that ferrari he was going to smash into the porsches ahead as well. There was a reason why the other Audi slowed and macnish simply was a bit to aggressive and ambitious at that stage of the race. I am glad everyone walked away...and I mean everyone, but Mcnish I think was to blame for this one

[steveaki13]

A long Safety car period.

The drivers in the cars will be getting very cold by now.

Lets hope we can get this race on again very soon.

[Daniel]

Ready to go soon. Just having a sandwich and some coke :D

[truefan72]

In light of these accidents, do you think it is time to end the open cockpit style in LeMans?
I think if either of those audi's were open cockpits, there would be a different or worse outcome

[truefan72]

stupid eurosport guy is talking about Audi retiring the 3rd car, that particular guy has been annoying me from the get go
thankfully the other guy is putting him in his place

[Alfa Fan]

Martin Haven is completely wrong here.

[truefan72]

man that eurosport guy is annoying, the other guy can't even get a word in

[truefan72]

Martin Haven is completely wrong here.

is that his name?
and you are right, he does make a few valid points but overall he is wrong in that argument concerning the 2nd audi accident
he is even wrong in his analysis of the first audi accident

is he drunk or why is he talking non stop nonsense

he is the incarnation of murray walker
now that we are back to racing can he focus on "the racing"

[MrJan]

How do people see this then? Obviously Audi have an uphill struggle with only one car running now. I'm not sure if I think that the speed of Audi will win over the economy of the Pug.

[Alfa Fan]

I think the Audi will win. It would just be so typical of them.

[wedge]

Martin Haven is completely wrong here.

No, Martin is completely right.

And....

Please let me finish...


In the driver's briefing they were explicitly told to take the racing line regardless, because that's the consistent way to read traffic. It's a similar principle in oval racing.

Rocky comes steaming through on the inside flashing the stupid HIDs. Typical Audi driver thinking they own the road! :D

[wedge]

Not to sure a tarmac run off would have done any good, that car was trying to get airbourn.
Im not a fan of that ugly shark fin, but i belive it did its job. If that car had got airbourn, like Stefan Ortelle at Monza, then we would of been looking at injuries or worse in the spectators.
Fair play to the strength of the car. One lucky Scots man.

The Audi skates across the gravel because prototypes have huge flat floor.

The gravel trap is cambered and then there is a few metres which isn't. You can tell because the Ferrari's front wheels were lifted when stationary. Hence the Audi seemingly going airborne for a split second.

Massive FAIL

[Shifter]

How do people see this then? Obviously Audi have an uphill struggle with only one car running now. I'm not sure if I think that the speed of Audi will win over the economy of the Pug.

(Relatively) trouble-free, I still think Audi can win, but of course anything goes wrong & they lose time there's 3 Peugeots waiting to pounce. Still, hard to count Audi out of this one. If Audi doesn't win with their one remaining car, then likely we will see a Peugeot 1-2.

[MrJan]

Yeah I think that's what I'm leaning towards. The extra speed of the Audi makes up for the fact that they are pitting more often. It now comes down to the reliability and staying on the island, and with nearly half the race left there's still a lot that could happen

[Ranger]

Four cars are still on the lead lap too, there's still nothing in it.

I just hope it isn't eventually decided by safety cars.

[Alfa Fan]

No, Martin is completely right.

Can't tell if your serious? If you are, then why should Audi withdraw the remaining car just because the other have suffered non-systematic accidents?

[Shifter]

In light of these accidents, do you think it is time to end the open cockpit style in LeMans?
I think if either of those audi's were open cockpits, there would be a different or worse outcome

It's a valid question. I would'nt worry about P2 as much though. As much as I personally like the sleek coupes, open top cars have a great heritage.

[MrJan]

I think that both are very relevant to the history. The fixed heads of the 250GTO and GT40 are as iconic as the open tops of the D-Type, 917 and even the R10. I'm not convinced that open tops would've made the accidents that much worse, just look at Webbers flip of last season.

Anyways the race is starting to swing in Peugeots favour. Audi have had a few slow stints while the others have used the soft tyre to up their pace. Daylight will bring nee challenges though.

[Shifter]

Yes, this is true. I was thinking way back to the 50's in regard to open top.

I thought I heard Audi quadruple-stinted the tires in the cool of the night (could be wrong), the Peugeots may come on strong now as day breaks!

[truefan72]

Can't tell if your serious? If you are, then why should Audi withdraw the remaining car just because the other have suffered non-systematic accidents?

yup

[truefan72]

Yes, this is true. I was thinking way back to the 50's in regard to open top.

I thought I heard Audi quadruple-stinted the tires in the cool of the night (could be wrong), the Peugeots may come on strong now as day breaks!

took a nap, woke up and the audi is in 3rd
but now there is a safety car and all 3 cars are separated by 4 seconds
exciting

[Alfa Fan]

yup

No explanation? Seems a very puzzling way to go racing...as soon as one car crashes withdraw the rest?

[truefan72]

No explanation? Seems a very puzzling way to go racing...as soon as one car crashes withdraw the rest?

I am agreeing with you, I already ridiculed that idea in an earlier post. It was an insane notion

[call_me_andrew]

Why can't I find live timing?

[truefan72]

David Halladay!!!
man that sucks for the team

and under SC conditions, totally wrecks the car

[harvick#1]

Why can't I find live timing?

24 Heures du Mans 2011 − Live Timing (http://www.lemans.org/en/races/24h-du-mans/live-2011/live-timing.html)

[Ranger]

Fantastic race. Great battle between #2 Audi and #9 Peugeot through the traffic!

[Jexz]

On the Audi R18 there is some antennas on the front... What is the long one, bended in 90 degress? It's vissible on the onboard camera view.

Thanks,

[harvick#1]

think its a weather censor

[Daniel]

Morning everyone! Audi still out front with all the pugs chasing? Crazy :D

[Daniel]

Number 7 pug off

[MrJan]

Right, I've been asleep for the last 5 hours, what's happened and wheres everyone now?

[Daniel]

Ditto Barry. Definitely a classic. Pug in front on track, but I think the Audi is on course to win

[Ranger]

Several on-track passes for the lead over the last 5 hours. #2 Audi, #7 and #9 Peugeot were at one point separated by 5 seconds after a safety car.

[Daniel]

Bacon butties anyone?

[MrJan]

Several on-track passes for the lead over the last 5 hours. #2 Audi, #7 and #9 Peugeot were at one point separated by 5 seconds after a safety car.

It's about that now!! In fact it's under 4 seconds. Albeit with the Pug about to stop

[MrJan]

This doesn't sit right with me, Ant is 4 laps down and out of this so in my mind he's being a bit too aggressive. I know that it's a team game but it's going a bit far IMO. And of course the French being French aren't going to wave any blue flags or have any real sense of fair play.

[Daniel]

Tbh I don't think Ant has done anything wrong.

[Ranger]

It's about that now!! In fact it's under 4 seconds. Albeit with the Pug about to stop

Drat... I can't see it at the moment because OneHD here has to contractually broadcast other programs.

At present it is Extreme Fishing with Robson Green. Hmm...

[Daniel]

Audi site is still streaming

[MrJan]

Try myp2p.eu for streaming. I've had the same stream running almost perfectly for about 20 hours, not sure which one it is.

Re: Ant, in most cases a blue flag would've been waving for him for a lot of that. I also thought the way he chopped the Audis nose off into the first chicane was a but more aggressive than needed.

Also interesting to see that Audi have spent less overall time in the pits even though they have pitted more often.

[Daniel]

Just remember that Ant pulled away in the end. A lapped car has the right to unlap himself if he's faster

[Ranger]

Try myp2p.eu for streaming. I've had the same stream running almost perfectly for about 20 hours, not sure which one it is.

Re: Ant, in most cases a blue flag would've been waving for him for a lot of that. I also thought the way he chopped the Audis nose off into the first chicane was a but more aggressive than needed.

Also interesting to see that Audi have spent less overall time in the pits even though they have pitted more often.

Thanks.

Treluyer went for 5 stints on those tyres before he got out the most recent time. Could be a masterstroke.

[MrJan]

Yeah going five stints also means that they now don't need a driver change. Amazing that the tyres could do that and still put in decent times, I guess that the cool temperature had a big bearing on that.

[Daniel]

Yeah, if Audi win this which looks entirely possible, then they completely deserve it.

[MrJan]

Just remember that Ant pulled away in the end. A lapped car has the right to unlap himself if he's faster

True, but does that give him the right to defend in the first place? Also he was about two or three seconds a lap slower until the Audi cameup behind him, then he was right on pace :S

What about Montagny? Do you think it was right that it needed such a strong move at Mulsanne to get by him?

[Daniel]

Slower car has to stick to their line though ;) if this were f1 I would think differently

[Daniel]

Always fantastic to se Pescarolo being interviewed :)

[MrJan]

Slower car has to stick to their line though ;) if this were f1 I would think differently

I expected it and don't have a huge problem, it's the job of the following car to ge through, but cutting off the nose of someone is just a bit beyond fair racing...not to mention bloody dangerous.

[Daniel]

This is gonna be a nailbiter....

[MrJan]

Lotterer is in the process of throwing this away. He needs to man up and chuck that R18 round a bit more.

[Daniel]

Easier said than done :D

[MrJan]

Pfft, he's only 22 hours into the race, not like he'll be tired or anything

[Daniel]

God the radio le mans people are such whiney bitches.....

[Daniel]

Twitter is full of tards who don't like a bit of hard driving

[wedge]

Can't tell if your serious? If you are, then why should Audi withdraw the remaining car just because the other have suffered non-systematic accidents?

Sorry, I just missed that bit when I rejoined the race.


Twitter is full of tards who don't like a bit of hard driving

Dangerous driving, surely?

[Daniel]

Oh come on, it was a squeeze, he wasn't forced off the road.

[MrJan]

You can't seriously be defending that! FFS even the Peugeot officials decided it was enough, obviously there was a radio message to say 'get out of it'. I'm all for hard racing, my stance on the Monaco incidents shows that, but not when you're laps down and just playing the team game.

If Hamilton was being lapped and pulled a move like that you'd be calling him a retard and saying it was dangerous. How is that move into the Michelin chicane any different?

[Daniel]

Oh come on. It wasn't all that bad.

[MrJan]

So it's okay to cut across someone that's putting a lap on you? In that case I look forward to watching HRT do some proper racing this evening.

That pug was much slower, he shouldn't have been defending at all, let alone as aggressively as that.

[Daniel]

It was a tap ffs.

[wedge]

Oh come on. It wasn't all that bad.

Squeezed close to the armco on the Mulsanne!

[Daniel]

He was miles away from the armco.

[MrJan]

HE'S 4 LAPS DOWN!!! They shouldn't be defending, let alone touching.

[Daniel]

I was watching it love of the Audi Fred on the 26" LCD I've got on the pc in the lounge room and then later on the 40" tv in HD...... It wasn't as bad as the anti-French commentators would have you think.

[Daniel]

Man, where were you when McNish t-boned the Fazza and Rockenfeller hit the other Fazza who was doing as he was told in the drivers briefing.

[wedge]

So it's okay to cut across someone that's putting a lap on you? In that case I look forward to watching HRT do some proper racing this evening.

That pug was much slower, he shouldn't have been defending at all, let alone as aggressively as that.

F1 is different.

Long distance oval racing, endurance racing, traffic isn't supposed to jump out of the way.

Le Man racing is more of a team sport.

[MrJan]

Yeah I watched it on a 27" TV linked to my laptop and before the commentators said anything I thought it was a bad move. If you think it's okay for lapped cars to defend to the point of contact then the move was fine. If of course you live in the real world and know what blue flags mean then obviously you will feel a bit differently

[wedge]

Man, where were you when McNish t-boned the Fazza and Rockenfeller hit the other Fazza who was doing as he was told in the drivers briefing.

Because lapped traffic is supposed to stay on the racing line

Anyway, where were when you said Hamilton should have been banned for dangerous driving! Considering the number of huge shunts perhaps Pugs should be careful of their own safety than cause another?

BTW, I'm all for gamesmanship! :D

[Daniel]

If the pug gets a ban then mcnish and rockenfeller should too ;)

[wedge]

i-LKXFRIDrU

[Daniel]

I fail to see the problem, it was hardly schumi on Rubens stuff

[MrJan]

Man, where were you when McNish t-boned the Fazza and Rockenfeller hit the other Fazza who was doing as he was told in the drivers briefing.

I reserved comment on both pretty much. Rockenfeller was stupid, he should have waited until after the kink, as you say the Ferrari was on message. As for McNish, I suspect he didn't see the GT car beyond his team mate until it was too late. Again it was a stupid move, especially so early, but there wasn't the same intent.

I don't expect or want them to jump out of the way (like he actually did after Mulsanne), but when a car is alongside you and 4 laps up you don't take the corner away from him causing contact.

[MrJan]

I fail to see the problem, it was hardly schumi on Rubens stuff

Doesn't make it right.

[MrJan]

If the pug gets a ban then mcnish and rockenfeller should too ;)

Who's calling for a ban on anyone?

[Daniel]

I don't think mike or Alan deserve a ban. Racing incidents bothof them. I'm just saying :)

[AndyRAC]

Endurance racing is different to F1 - backmarkers don't dive out of the way, up to the lapper to overtake. This goes on a lot in Endurance racing.

There is a lot of anti-French/Peugeot comments on many websites, etc
Can't cheer for Audi though - find it hard to warm to them - added to their bland, boring but efficient road cars - and their pulling out of the WRC years ago.

[Daniel]

Whoever wins they will have done a great job. Lots of antiFrench stiff around like you say.

[MrJan]

Oh right, I never realised that contact with the leader was acceptable. In my mind that pass was made, if that 908 was racing for the lead then I suspect Gene wouldn't actually have been as aggressive. As it is the car has nothing to race for so he felt confident enough to put the car on the line.

As for Audi/Peugeot, I can't bring myself to support a French team and to me it always looked as if the cards were stacked against Audi. They've hustled for it more too, by limiting time in the pitlane (even though they pitted more).

[wedge]

Epic race! Epic finish to the flag!

[Daniel]

Anyhoo. Thrilling race finish. Audi looks like they have it.

[MrJan]

Yep, strategically Audi have schooled the others today. Very slick pitstops and seem to have got decisions right.

Will be interesting to see them cross the line properly rather than in formation

[Daniel]

Rain!!!!! This is an epic race

[Sonic]

Rain!!!!! This is an epic race

Indeed. That could throw a real curve ball if it intensify

[Daniel]

Looks like Audi have this one but anything could happen

[Daniel]

This going to be a closer finish than a lot of f1 races.....

[MrJan]

23 hours 45 minutes and it's less than 15 seconds between first & second!! Great race, so glad I made the effort to watch most of it.

[Daniel]

Ditto. F1 will be a massive anticlimax compared to this.

[Daniel]

Pagenaud has given up or at least his tyres have

[AndyRAC]

Ditto. F1 will be a massive anticlimax compared to this.

Absolutely, but guess which will get the column inches...?? :mad:

[Daniel]

Yup. People are just clueless..... Let lap

[wedge]

Can't cheer for Audi though - find it hard to warm to them - added to their bland, boring but efficient road cars - and their pulling out of the WRC years ago.

You can say the same about Peugeot.

R18 w/LM aero package looks like this:

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x207/Starcowboy/auto%20union/AU/193720avus20-20luigi20fagioli20auto.jpg?t=1241995842

[Daniel]

Last lap for real now. Amazing stuff

[Daniel]

24 Hours down

[Daniel]

Audi take it!

[wedge]

Ditto. F1 will be a massive anticlimax compared to this.

DRS





S**t, LM don't do gimmicks

[wedge]

Congrats Audi.

Epic race

[MrJan]

Great race, thoroughly deserved win for Audi.

We were kept guessing throughout, you never quite knew for sure what strategy was going to win.

[Sonic]

That obviously meant a lot to Audi after the trials and the lows of the last 24 hours.

[Allyc85]

Well done to Audi on a brilliant win after what theyve been through with the 2 big crashes! Im not a huge Le Mans fan but that was some amazing flat out racing over 24 hours and deffo not boring!

Unfortunately I had Peugeot down for the win and owe my work mate a large pasty :laugh:

[Shifter]

There's just no equal to LeMans. Seems like every year the story is just epic; I get more emotional at the end of the LeMans 24 than I do when F1 crowns a champion, and thats saying something because I was fairly choked up last year listening to Vettel reacting to his WDC on his cool-down lap.

[harvick#1]

There's just no equal to LeMans. Seems like every year the story is just epic; I get more emotional at the end of the LeMans 24 than I do when F1 crowns a champion, and thats saying something because I was fairly choked up last year listening to Vettel reacting to his WDC on his cool-down lap.

agreed, Audi ran through the ultimate lows in the race when #1 and #3 were demolished. what Lotterer and Treluyer did in the final 8 hours was truely breathtaking to watch, I mean, they took the fight to Peugeot while quint-stinting the TIRES!!!! only for the final pitstops to have the cars within 6 seconds with about 30 minutes left. you couldn't script this again if you tried, and really there were 6 of the cars could've won with the driver lineups.

great to see Corvette's take both GT categories

[Tom206wrc]

Absolutely, but guess which will get the column inches...?? :mad:


Well, in fact medias will show lots of images of 2011 Le Mans, but mainly the images of McNish crash :rolleyes:

[Daniel]

Well, in fact medias will show lots of images of 2011 Le Mans, but mainly the images of McNish crash :rolleyes:

Well lets be fair..... it was a massive crash

[BDunnell]

Endurance racing is different to F1 - backmarkers don't dive out of the way, up to the lapper to overtake. This goes on a lot in Endurance racing.

And I also find the attitude of some modern fans whenever a bit of close racing takes place rather curious. Perhaps the move was a tad dubious, but nowhere near as bad as the McNish incident. Having finally watched it, I cannot understand how anyone can blame the Ferrari driver. I suspect they do so on the grounds that the inexperienced, less-well-known driver MUST automatically be at fault.

[Daniel]

And I also find the attitude of some modern fans whenever a bit of close racing takes place rather curious. Perhaps the move was a tad dubious, but nowhere near as bad as the McNish incident. Having finally watched it, I cannot understand how anyone can blame the Ferrari driver. I suspect they do so on the grounds that the inexperienced, less-well-known driver MUST automatically be at fault.

Completely agree. What do you think about the Rockenfeller incident? Bearing in mind that in the drivers briefings that the GT drivers are told to hold their line and the LMP's will overtake them?

[BDunnell]

Completely agree. What do you think about the Rockenfeller incident? Bearing in mind that in the drivers briefings that the GT drivers are told to hold their line and the LMP's will overtake them?

In that instance, the Ferrari certainly does seem to move over, but only by a fraction. Maybe Kauffman was more at fault in that incident than Beltoise was in the McNish shunt. But I view this as, alas, an occupational hazard in endurance racing, unless it is to be made single-class.

One thing I never have a problem with in terms of changing motorsport formulae is slowing them down a bit. Is the speed differential between the slowest GTs and the fastest prototypes now too great? I don't know how it compares statistically with the figures for 40-50 years ago, say.

[AndyRAC]

Well after listening to RadioLeMans and their review, it seems that Rockenfeller and Kauffman didn't actually touch - Mike put a wheel slightly off the track and.....straight to the accident. It seems the R18 is a very nervous beast.

[wedge]

One thing I never have a problem with in terms of changing motorsport formulae is slowing them down a bit. Is the speed differential between the slowest GTs and the fastest prototypes now too great? I don't know how it compares statistically with the figures for 40-50 years ago, say.

Logically you'd think that but ironically - and believe it or not its the opposite.

The ACO are intent on slowing the cars down so the driver makes the difference by being aggressive in traffic. Andy Wallace bemoaned the air restrictors caused more contact in racing; ALMS - when the P2 cars seriously threatened Audi some races at times resembled a DTM/BTCC race; and Ant predicted the new diesel engines regs would create more aggressive driving.

Cause and effect: take FIA GTs as another example. You have parity systems mandated in the regs and a couple of 1hr races per meeting and they seem to resemble BTCC races these days.

[wedge]

Well after listening to RadioLeMans and their review, it seems that Rockenfeller and Kauffman didn't actually touch - Mike put a wheel slightly off the track and.....straight to the accident. It seems the R18 is a very nervous beast.

Haven't listened to it yet but did they get to interview Ant and give him a grilling?

[Daniel]

Haven't listened to it yet but did they get to interview Ant and give him a grilling?

The Radio Le Mans coverage was pitiful. They acted like Ant had almost killed someone when what he'd done was nowhere near being anywhere near being anywhere near as bad as what Michael did to Rubens last year in F1.....

[Daniel]

In that instance, the Ferrari certainly does seem to move over, but only by a fraction. Maybe Kauffman was more at fault in that incident than Beltoise was in the McNish shunt. But I view this as, alas, an occupational hazard in endurance racing, unless it is to be made single-class.

One thing I never have a problem with in terms of changing motorsport formulae is slowing them down a bit. Is the speed differential between the slowest GTs and the fastest prototypes now too great? I don't know how it compares statistically with the figures for 40-50 years ago, say.
Agree with the first part, not so sure about the second part though, I think faster cars going through traffic is part of the charm and the cars are exceptionally strong. I mean I really can't imagine anything more serious than those two incidents other than perhaps if a car went off into the trees......

[wedge]

The Radio Le Mans coverage was pitiful. They acted like Ant had almost killed someone when what he'd done was nowhere near being anywhere near being anywhere near as bad as what Michael did to Rubens last year in F1.....

To be precise I and Andy were referring to Mid-week Motorsport when perhaps Hindy may have calmed down a bit for the review of the race...

[Daniel]

To be precise I and Andy were referring to Mid-week Motorsport when perhaps Hindy may have calmed down a bit for the review of the race...

Ah :)

[AndyRAC]

To be precise I and Andy were referring to Mid-week Motorsport when perhaps Hindy may have calmed down a bit for the review of the race...

Yeah, he had calmed down - I think everyone was expecting a night of ranting, but it didn't happen.

[BDunnell]

Agree with the first part, not so sure about the second part though, I think faster cars going through traffic is part of the charm and the cars are exceptionally strong. I mean I really can't imagine anything more serious than those two incidents other than perhaps if a car went off into the trees......

I'm not arguing that there shouldn't be faster cars going through traffic, if you see what I mean.

[BDunnell]

Logically you'd think that but ironically - and believe it or not its the opposite.

The ACO are intent on slowing the cars down so the driver makes the difference by being aggressive in traffic. Andy Wallace bemoaned the air restrictors caused more contact in racing; ALMS - when the P2 cars seriously threatened Audi some races at times resembled a DTM/BTCC race; and Ant predicted the new diesel engines regs would create more aggressive driving.

I'm not sure I buy this argument at all. It's rather like MPs blaming the expenses system for their outrageous claims, rather than their own actions.

[wedge]

Yeah, he had calmed down - I think everyone was expecting a night of ranting, but it didn't happen.

Very civilised and thoughtful discussion even though the gist is fingers are still pointed at Pug's direction.

Hindy's still not happy about Ant. Ant tweeted he enjoyed playing with Audis and then took them down! Wonder if Ant will turn up at the next F1 GP for 5Live and face the Inquisition?


I'm not sure I buy this argument at all. It's rather like MPs blaming the expenses system for their outrageous claims, rather than their own actions.

Racing drivers are supposed to race and that means pushing the envelope of machinery, rules and conduct.

In F1 Senna made arrogantly suicidal moves on backmarkers eg. 1988 Italian GP - Berger was catching Senna and Senna tried to make the difference on the chicanes and backmarkers but crashed into Schlesser; 1990 Brazillian GP - Prost was catching Senna and Senna stupidly tried a dive bomb when lapping Nakajima

Passing traffic is essential but in endurance racing (and categories across in North America) the blue flag (or similar) does not mean move out of the way else you'll be penalised.

Diesels are now smaller capacity, less HP and torque than previously used to so getting up to speed will be different, not to mention a close battle with rival. Thus you'll want to gain any vantage possible - traffic being one of them.


McNish also played down suggestions that the rule changes that had brought the prototype and GT cars' straightline performance closer together had directly caused the crash - though he admitted that traffic now had to be handled differently.

"It's definitely more tricky to overtake with less speed differential," he said.

"When you have got less speed differential on the straight you are overtaking more in the corners. You can see that the race is coming down to just tenths right now, so you know you have got to maximise advantages when you can.

"But whether it increased the chances of it I'm not sure to be honest. It definitely... if I had 100bhp more then I would definitely have overtaken him easier, but then again it might have been at a different state in the corner."

autosport.com - Le Mans News: McNish: Crash pass not ambitious (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/92270)

[harvick#1]

they were saying in LMP2 was extremely trouble some with GT cars, because they use a GT2 engine, they couldn't pull the speed on the straights that much more and had to have the downforce advantage in the corners, hense the more aggressive driving.

as for several incidents, McNish was more to blame for his wreck as he was alittle overanxious, but it was a bang-bang play, much like Lotterer passing the Peugeot while passing a slower LMP car in the Porsche Curves.

Kaufmann left his left lane and squeezed Rocky, Rocky was already at full speed and wasnt expecting the Ferrari to switch lanes like that.

what Ant did wasn't wrong, its just poor drivermanship. the fight was between Peugeot #9 and Audi #2, Ant was 4 laps down and had no reason to fight with Lotterer in the final 3 hours because he wasnt gonna gain 4 laps back, it would've been a major shame if he did actually hit Lotterer, but he didnt. I think Gene or someone else in the #8 pulled the same crap with about 1-2 hours left also, but luckly Bourdais was driving the #9 and he was still losing time to #2

[Daniel]

Very civilised and thoughtful discussion even though the gist is fingers are still pointed at Pug's direction.

Hindy's still not happy about Ant. Ant tweeted he enjoyed playing with Audis and then took them down! Wonder if Ant will turn up at the next F1 GP for 5Live and face the Inquisition?



Racing drivers are supposed to race and that means pushing the envelope of machinery, rules and conduct.

In F1 Senna made arrogantly suicidal moves on backmarkers eg. 1988 Italian GP - Berger was catching Senna and Senna tried to make the difference on the chicanes and backmarkers but crashed into Schlesser; 1990 Brazillian GP - Prost was catching Senna and Senna stupidly tried a dive bomb when lapping Nakajima

Passing traffic is essential but in endurance racing (and categories across in North America) the blue flag (or similar) does not mean move out of the way else you'll be penalised.

Diesels are now smaller capacity, less HP and torque than previously used to so getting up to speed will be different, not to mention a close battle with rival. Thus you'll want to gain any vantage possible - traffic being one of them.

Strange, McNish said that he didn't see the car? Now he seems to suggest that he did? :confused:

[BDunnell]

Racing drivers are supposed to race and that means pushing the envelope of machinery, rules and conduct.

In F1 Senna made arrogantly suicidal moves on backmarkers eg. 1988 Italian GP - Berger was catching Senna and Senna tried to make the difference on the chicanes and backmarkers but crashed into Schlesser; 1990 Brazillian GP - Prost was catching Senna and Senna stupidly tried a dive bomb when lapping Nakajima

Passing traffic is essential but in endurance racing (and categories across in North America) the blue flag (or similar) does not mean move out of the way else you'll be penalised.

Diesels are now smaller capacity, less HP and torque than previously used to so getting up to speed will be different, not to mention a close battle with rival. Thus you'll want to gain any vantage possible - traffic being one of them.

Of course, all of that is beyond doubt, and I agree very much. However, I'm uncertain as to what you're getting at in one respect. Do you not agree that for drivers to blame the slowing-down of the cars for the increased amounts of contact, as opposed to taking responsibility for their own actions within the shifted performance parameters, is an unnecessary shift of said blame?

[wedge]

Of course, all of that is beyond doubt, and I agree very much. However, I'm uncertain as to what you're getting at in one respect. Do you not agree that for drivers to blame the slowing-down of the cars for the increased amounts of contact, as opposed to taking responsibility for their own actions within the shifted performance parameters, is an unnecessary shift of said blame?

It's easy to point to the latter but it's a different story when drivers are under pressure.

[DavePI2]

I also like endurance for the reason of taking pics without stress. Still I love the cars, that has always been what has drawn me too the series. It started with the 917 way back in 1970 and hasn't changed. Unlike some series in the u.s you know when you see a car that is a porsche , ferrari, audi, bmw etc. all that is just what you are seeing . ALMS should bring back their old slogan "The Cars Are The Stars". That said it all.