The reason for Red-Bulls qualy pace vs race pace

[Zico]

I found the following link which provides a logical explanation of why Red Bulls race pace doesn't match their qualifying pace. http://www.thef1times.com/community/display/00240

A very aggresively set retarded ignition mapping for the blown diffuser?.. a mapping they couldn't use in the race due to the huge fuel consumption it would suffer.
I noticed at the weekend that Vettel in particular was opening the DRS flap in some high speed corners well before the apex of the turn.

This indicates the effectiveness of their aero package RBR have in raw form, for them to do what most others seem unable to do, to the same degree doesn't make much sense though.. Why do the other teams not do the same?

This reduction of drag by opening the flap obviously reduces the amount of downforce available, but it does not seem to affect the balance on the RBRs as they are audibly flat to the floor. Perhaps they have downforce to spare with their better optimised exhaust system / engine management, thus allowing the opening of the rear wing mid turn with no apparent detrimental effects to the handling.

If this is true then RBR are really going to suffer in Monaco ( The blown diffuser is banned for Monaco right?)

[SGWilko]

The blown diffuser is banned for Monaco right?)

Wrong. FIA's position is it will not be 'officially' banned until Silverstone, however, if one of the teams without the EBD lodges a complaint, the FIA have stated that they will be deemed illegal.

As usual, the FIA like to do things by the booky wook.

[Robinho]

the Red Bull rear wing is steeper also so gets a greater advantage from using the DRS, which is unliimited in Qually, so gain more. In the race when its use is limited (and they are usually in front) that advantage is negated. The McLaren has the opposite philosophy, meaning that it is quicker in race trim without the need for the DRS, but the gain is less when opened.

Red Bull also have a less effective KERS system (when its even working) which is less use for them in the races, but enough over the one lap in qually

add in the off throttle diffuser blowing being better and the fact that their higher downforce configuration actually shortens the life of the Pirellis in the faster corners, and you have a car that is devastating over one lap, but slightly compromised over a race distance, alowing the field to be closer (by field i mean McLaren and occasionally one ferrari and/or one Merc)

[truefan72]

the Red Bull rear wing is steeper also so gets a greater advantage from using the DRS, which is unliimited in Qually, so gain more. In the race when its use is limited (and they are usually in front) that advantage is negated. The McLaren has the opposite philosophy, meaning that it is quicker in race trim without the need for the DRS, but the gain is less when opened.

Red Bull also have a less effective KERS system (when its even working) which is less use for them in the races, but enough over the one lap in qually

add in the off throttle diffuser blowing being better and the fact that their higher downforce configuration actually shortens the life of the Pirellis in the faster corners, and you have a car that is devastating over one lap, but slightly compromised over a race distance, alowing the field to be closer (by field i mean McLaren and occasionally one ferrari and/or one Merc)

lol excellent analysis and a great sense of humor too

[555-04Q2]

They are cheating.

[Mark]

They are cheating.

You are Colin Kolles and I claim my five pounds.

[Robinho]

They are all cheating, its just that some are not as good at it as others!!

[The Black Knight]

Take this unlikely scenario:

All teams compete this weekend with the off throttle blown diffusers still on their cars. HRT then complain that all cars on the grid were illegal except theirs. If the FIA are to be consistent with their ruling to ban Sauber in Australia for a miniscule error that was completely done by mistake then surely any team continuing on with off throttle blown diffusers this weekend should be disqualified from the Monaco GP after it has run. Thus HRT being the only legal team and wins the Monaco GP.


It would be ridiculous of course but not beyond the realms of possibility. It is Formula One after all.

[Mark]

They'd still end up getting beaten by Williams :p . A final victory for Rubens? :D

[The Black Knight]

They'd still end up getting beaten by Williams :p . A final victory for Rubens? :D

Unless both Williams retire.. They may very well lodge their own complaint with the stewards. I believe that a ban on off throttle blown difusers would actually be beneficial mainly to McLaren and most detrimental to RBR, especially in qualifying.

[wedge]

the Red Bull rear wing is steeper also so gets a greater advantage from using the DRS, which is unliimited in Qually, so gain more. In the race when its use is limited (and they are usually in front) that advantage is negated. The McLaren has the opposite philosophy, meaning that it is quicker in race trim without the need for the DRS, but the gain is less when opened.

Red Bull also have a less effective KERS system (when its even working) which is less use for them in the races, but enough over the one lap in qually

add in the off throttle diffuser blowing being better and the fact that their higher downforce configuration actually shortens the life of the Pirellis in the faster corners, and you have a car that is devastating over one lap, but slightly compromised over a race distance, alowing the field to be closer (by field i mean McLaren and occasionally one ferrari and/or one Merc)

You forgot to mention how RBR uses it tyres:


http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/formula_one/13514134.stm

The suggestion is that the RB7 has too much high-speed downforce for the fragile Pirelli to be able to deal with for very long and therefore has to be nursed more than on the McLaren.

During the tyre war of the early 2000s - and even to an extent with the tough control tyre Bridgestones of the last few years - it used to be that the more you could load up the car with downforce, the faster your stint time would be.

That is not necessarily the case any longer - although it still allows you to be devastatingly fast in qualifying.

...So take your pick: the Red Bull has too much downforce for the Pirellis to be able to use; it derives more drag reduction from its DRS; it has better hot-blown diffuser mapping and loses Kers performance. Or some sort of combination therein.

[The Black Knight]

http://en.espnf1.com/monaco/motorsport/story/49757.html

Kolles has ruled out any protest over blown diffusers.

[Robinho]

You forgot to mention how RBR uses it tyres:

actually i did mention it in passing in there somewhere in my neat paraphrasing of Andrew Benson's article which i was passing off as my own expert opinion, which you have picked up on, making me look considerableyt less astute than i did before! ;)

[555-04Q2]

They are all cheating, its just that some are not as good at it as others!!

Thats the truth brother :up:

[steveaki13]

They'd still end up getting beaten by Williams :p . A final victory for Rubens? :D


Unless both Williams retire.. They may very well lodge their own complaint with the stewards. I believe that a ban on off throttle blown difusers would actually be beneficial mainly to McLaren and most detrimental to RBR, especially in qualifying.

They will be invoved in a 4 car pile up in St. Devote and all 4 drivers will be pushing their wreckages as far round the lap as possible to be declared the winner. ;) :p :

[Zico]

Good stuff (esp Robinho).. I find it very interesting to learn of the individual teams cars strengths and weaknesses. Its also interesting that we seem to have forgotten the theory that the secret to the Red Bulls pace was all in their flexi-front wing.. Could it have been partially true or just a very succesfull psuedo advertising campaign that involved, partly or have even inadvertantly came about from the Redbull crew sheilding the front of the car pre race and qualy. Were we just suckers for the stunt? :D

[markabilly]

No way, Ferrari would be found not to have violated the rule.....