Aero Kits

[elan 02]

http://www.racer.com/video-tony-cotmans-2012-indycar-update/article/201327/
Aero Kits will be available 2012 May /maybe. So we start the season with what ? all Dallara

[call_me_andrew]

It's possible he meant May 2011.

It's also possible he wants two thirds of the field to start the season without wings.

[anthonyvop]

It's possible he meant May 2011.


That was a Scripted video produced by the IndyCar Series. He meant 2012!

[Marbles]

A curious time for an introduction. All Dallara until Indy. If this is the case, I would imagine the car has to be bought with a Dallara kit -- no rollers. Then you're free to do what you want. Is there testing for these kits up to Indy? If they are actually speedway ready going into May and teams are ready to trim them out for Indy then this could be a very interesting Indy 500.

[elan 02]

If I am wrong jump in. who thought we would see three new and different cars on track come 2012 ( first race ) not indy.
I for one was very excited about what to watch for this winter. Now it looks like the same old (new) Dallara/ Honda???

[uncommonsense52]

Owners being dicks:

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/indycar-owners-reject-aero-kits-for-2012/

[Leo Krupe]

I was afraid that the beginning of 2012 would be pushing things too much, but there you are. If only TG had gotten kicked out 6-12 months before he did, and RB had that amount of time to start, we might've had the new cars at the beginning of the season, the way it should've been (or even this year, in time for the 100th Indy).

[bugeyedgomer]

Owners being dicks:

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/indycar-owners-reject-aero-kits-for-2012/

you should pay for everything so they wont be

[uncommonsense52]

you should pay for everything so they wont be

Why should I need to pay for it? They don't even have to do anything different. They want to run Dallara kits on other engines. That was ALWAYS an option. It's now the owners who are saying, "yeah, take away the option to have different kits."

If they wanted Dallara, they could always have Dallara. Why does there need to be a ruling enforcing this though?

It'd be like if the residents of a town said, "Pepsi is the only good soft drink, so that's all that should ever be sold ever." No. How about the residents just buy Pepsi if they want, and let other people decide if they want to buy a different brand or not.

For the record, I hate Pepsi and only drink Iced Tea, lol.

[anthonyvop]

The ICS has a lot ridding on the changes due in 2012. If any of the changes don't come to fruition it will just lead to more people stating that the ICS is failing...and could you blame them?

Somebody needs to tell the owners that some of us are getting sick and tired of their entitlement attitudes. If you can't afford to pay you can't afford to play. When the chassis details were announced last year where were their complaints?

I would much prefer 12-16 solidly supported cars with good drivers than the 24-26 cars with more than 1/2 on shoe string budgets driven by hacks we have now.

[Dr. Krogshöj]

Owners being dicks:

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/indycar-owners-reject-aero-kits-for-2012/

RB doesn't have to listen to them, this isn't CART.

[nigelred5]

On one hand I can see their arguement, but on my dominant hand, I don't give a $#it. There is already a new chassis to learn, and the variables of three new engines next year. Sure, it would be challenging to determine where a performance advantage lies. Is it the engine, or the preparation of the chassis, or just the driver. And then there is cost. Apparently Dallara has been guaranteed they will be selling complete cars including aero. They have production capacity and lord knows they can keep up with the demand for body parts but so what. blah blah blah. Back off of including the aero bits wihtthe chassis and allow the teams to buy their kit straight off if $75K is a budget buster. This is supposed to be the Big Leagues. If they are afraid of choosing hte wrong aero, or if they are that tight on budget, maybe FIL or FF2000 should be their future.

I think this is a bull$#it. If they don't want to use an alternative aero kit, then DON'T buy one. I'd bet money JV knows Lotus doesn't have the wallet to cover its mouth, Penske already knows something about the development of Honda's aero kit and can already see that Chevy won't be competetive. I agree with Mike Hull 100%, I'm freakin tired of spec racing.

[nigelred5]

The ICS has a lot ridding on the changes due in 2012. If any of the changes don't come to fruition it will just lead to more people stating that the ICS is failing...and could you blame them?

Somebody needs to tell the owners that some of us are getting sick and tired of their entitlement attitudes. If you can't afford to pay you can't afford to play. When the chassis details were announced last year where were their complaints?

I would much prefer 12-16 solidly supported cars with good drivers than the 24-26 cars with more than 1/2 on shoe string budgets driven by hacks we have now.


So you wnat to see Penske, Ganassi and who Andretti or Newman Haas on track....? IMHO, a series with 12-16 car fields is pathetic and you will find quickly no one will watch or care. Look at Grand AM and ALMS P1. put either series on the track alone with out the GT classes filling the track and zzzzzz...

[F1boat]

On one hand I can see their arguement, but on my dominant hand, I don't give a $#it. There is already a new chassis to learn, and the variables of three new engines next year. Sure, it would be challenging to determine where a performance advantage lies. Is it the engine, or the preparation of the chassis, or just the driver. And then there is cost. Apparently Dallara has been guaranteed they will be selling complete cars including aero. They have production capacity and lord knows they can keep up with the demand for body parts but so what. blah blah blah. Back off of including the aero bits wihtthe chassis and allow the teams to buy their kit straight off if $75K is a budget buster. This is supposed to be the Big Leagues. If they are afraid of choosing hte wrong aero, or if they are that tight on budget, maybe FIL or FF2000 should be their future.

I think this is a bull$#it. If they don't want to use an alternative aero kit, then DON'T buy one. I'd bet money JV knows Lotus doesn't have the wallet to cover its mouth, Penske already knows something about the development of Honda's aero kit and can already see that Chevy won't be competetive. I agree with Mike Hull 100%, I'm freakin tired of spec racing.

well said...

[anthonyvop]

So you wnat to see Penske, Ganassi and who Andretti or Newman Haas on track....?

Isn't that pretty much what we have now with most of the rest being just grid fillers? When was the last time someone who didn't drive for one of those teams won a race?

[Chamoo]

I can see Randy telling the owners that they are more than welcome to use the Dallara body kits that come with the cars, but whomever wants to use the Honda kit (that I am sure will be ready come May 2012) will be more than welcome to use it. If any other players enter the aerokit playground, and are ready, they would be an option for May 2012 as well.

Randy has put all his eggs in this basket in a sense, he will not let a bunch of spoiled kids get their way this time.

[garyshell]

The ICS has a lot ridding on the changes due in 2012. If any of the changes don't come to fruition it will just lead to more people stating that the ICS is failing...and could you blame them?

And there will be some (cough, anthonyvpop, cough) who will say that regardless of what they do.

Gary

[dataman1]

Randy, If you read this thread... Stay the course. The kits need to be there along with the new chassis and engines. Your new car and series will be fall into question if you don't stay the course. Owners may be spending the money but the fans drive the interest of the owner's sponsors who put the money in the owner's bank. The fans have spoken more than once on what they want. Stay the course.

[nigelred5]

I agree, don't backpedal on the Aero options. We're alwaays going to have the haves and have nots. RP's simply been forced to learn the tune of the have nots lately, he doesn't like not having that unfair advantage, and he doesn't see enough of an advantage starting out at square one like everyone else.

[dataman1]

I am repeating an idea from Mark C. on AR1 here: Have Dallara sell the car without an aero kit for $70K less for those that want to run an aero kit from a different source.

[Marbles]

I'd like to see some privateer come up with his own science project for the Indy 500. I'd like to see some team come up with something unique for a specific course like the ultra low rear wing that Carpentier used at Road America in his dominating Atlantic season. Indy fans, the people who have kept this series afloat for the past decade, want what little innovation and ingenuity they can get in what well still be a relatively bolted down spec.

Keep up the shouting because I honestly think these boys lend an ear to forums like these.

[anthonyvop]

And there will be some (cough, anthonyvpop, cough) who will say that regardless of what they do.

Gary

If they continue with the 1 chassis series, With a terrible TV package, minuscule internet presence, silly passing rules, mediocre drivers and too many ovals you bet your ass.

And there will be some fanboys (fart, garyshell, fart) who will defend the boys from Indy regardless of what they do.

[call_me_andrew]

I'd like to see some privateer come up with his own science project for the Indy 500. I'd like to see some team come up with something unique for a specific course like the ultra low rear wing that Carpentier used at Road America in his dominating Atlantic season. Indy fans, the people who have kept this series afloat for the past decade, want what little innovation and ingenuity they can get in what well still be a relatively bolted down spec.

Keep up the shouting because I honestly think these boys lend an ear to forums like these.

That's romantic and all, but the average garage engineer doesn't have the means to work with carbon fiber.

[elan 02]

All I know is when we pull into LB next year I want to see a Chevy built engine pushing a Chevy built body. Period!

[Chris R]

If the body kits are not ready for the first race (as it sounds now) , I woud have to agree with the owners... As I understand it right now, they have to buy the Dallara kit, use it and then switch if they so choose.... That seems silly and not particularily productive..... If the kits can be ready early then I think they need to suck it up and make a choice, it will be better for the series....

Ultimately, RB needs to tell these guys they are not in charge and do what he feels is best for the series.... They are acting like CART and we all know how that ended up....

[chuck34]

That's romantic and all, but the average garage engineer doesn't have the means to work with carbon fiber.

I think you'd be surprised how many people can work with carbon fiber now days. Especially in a body work area where it doesn't need to pass strict crash tests like with a tub.

[chuck34]

If the body kits are not ready for the first race (as it sounds now) , I woud have to agree with the owners... As I understand it right now, they have to buy the Dallara kit, use it and then switch if they so choose.... That seems silly and not particularily productive..... If the kits can be ready early then I think they need to suck it up and make a choice, it will be better for the series....

Ultimately, RB needs to tell these guys they are not in charge and do what he feels is best for the series.... They are acting like CART and we all know how that ended up....

I would agree with this. I also would agree with whoever it was that earlier suggested Dallara sell chassis at $70k less without the aero kits. But I suspect (I have no knowledge at all, just a guess) that Dallara had it written into their contract that every chassis must be sold with the aero kit and all. That makes sense from their standpoint as they want to make as much money as possible, just like any company.

[FIAT1]

Owners and their pockets again. What about fans who pay to see something different after all these years of boring and ugly. Competicion is what I want to see for my money. I smell bb and dallara bs. Kit is a kit, you have to buy one anyway or I'm missing something.

[FIAT1]

RB doesn't have to listen to them, this isn't CART.

Isn't CART, but old club gets what they want including special treatment on the track.

[anthonyvop]

Ouch!!!



Gossage slams IndyCar owners' aero kit vote
Last weekend's vote by the IZOD IndyCar Series team owners in Brazil that they want to delay the introduction of multiple aero kits for the new Dallara chassis until 2013, a year after the introduction of the new car, came in for strong criticism from Texas Motor Speedway president Eddie Gossage on his blog for ESPN.com. Gossage, who served on the ICONIC Committee that developed the 2012 plan, and is widely regarded as one of the top race promoters in the country, said the vote was a clear case of a business ignoring what its customers want.

"During last weekend's race in Sao Paulo, Brazil, team owners held a meeting and voted unanimously (with A.J. Foyt abstaining) to delay the planned aero kit packages for the new 2012 spec Dallara chassis until 2013," Gossage wrote. "Only thing is, two problems exist: One, team owners don't make the rules. Two, the fans have loudly, vociferously, clearly stated that they do not want a spec series. They want to see variety from car to car. And they want it yesterday.

"So once again, IndyCar team owners refuse to hear the fans. They continue to tell fans that the sport is for the team owners exclusively and the fans are not to be let in unless they share the team owners' point of view.

"I can tell you this: I do not know how to tune an IndyCar engine…I'll leave that to the experts. But as the guy who has year-in and year-out sold more IndyCar tickets than anyone in the sport outside of the venerable Indy 500, this expert will tell you that he cannot continue to sell this to the fans. So don't complain about the lack of sponsors, poor TV ratings and certainly don't complain about a lack of fans. You did it to yourself. Enjoy your elite little country club."


http://www.racer.com/gossage-slams-indycar-owners-aero-kit-vote/article/202158/?DCMP=EMC-RACER_DAILY

[NickFalzone]

Gossage hit the nail on the head. Elite country club racing is more and more what the series is feeling like. Spec racing has its virtues, but fan interest is not one of them. I think of all the initial reasons I got into racing as a fan, and car variety/technology was a huge part of it. When the hardware is no longer a significant topic of discussion for the fans, the racing becomes stale... whether car owners like it or not, they are putting on a show, and the show is tired.

[Mad_Hatter]

nevermind

[Leo Krupe]

Interesting take from Gossage, and I agree with him. The owners have a history of steamrolling over the head man in charge, and now we'll really see what RB is made of. Will he cave? Will he stand firm, so the owners cave? Will he and the owners compromise in some fashion?

One thing's for sure. The series can't continue like it is.

[Mad_Hatter]

So I guess Ive missed it...

What is at the root of the whole situation? Chevy not being ready with their aero kit? All aero kits not having enough development time? Teams not having the budget to purchase the the new car? Was the original plan to introduce aerokits at Indy 2012 and have teams buy two completely different sets?

Can anyone clarify?

[jimispeed]

I thought 2012 was the season of the new car/engine/manufacturer/chassis? Are they even testing it yet? I remember another series that changed their chassis, and they were probably testing beginning around June. Am I right? It's starting to look a bit dismal to me, but hopefully I'm proven wrong. The current car isn't too inspiring, not to mention a little old.

Bring it on Indycar!!

[Mad_Hatter]

http://www.racer.com/q-a-with-tony-cotman-on-indycar-2012/article/202369/

Tony Cotman on the latest.

[jimispeed]

http://www.racer.com/q-a-with-tony-cotman-on-indycar-2012/article/202369/

Tony Cotman on the latest.


:confused:

[dataman1]

I liked the article from Racer with T. Cotman. I also like his ways of explaining things. As I expected the whole issue is really about selfish thinking, not what is good for the series.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Randy will have to call their bluff. I get why they are hesitating. I get why they don't want to buy a Dallara and then pay extra to put a newer or other idea on the car. I get all that. But I read what Gossage has to say and I saw how Tony Cotman see's it.....and I think they are only looking at their personal interests.

Why CART failed was as much to do with not letting someone run the series for the benefit of all and the fans as any war with Tony George. The owners are now forgetting why they discovered CART didn't work. This time around, the governing body has said the rules were made, the timeline was set, and now a year out they are getting cold feet? They just don't want to spend the money....and in the end, they have to decide if they want to alienate the fans, or plunge a little deeper into the wallet in the short term to grow the series long term. They are not seeing it that way, but Randy is. Go Randy, show them you have worked with obstinate cowboys before, and you know BS when you see it. Call their bluff...