2012 World Rally Championship calendar - going endurance?

[NaBUru38]

A provisional 2012 WRC calendar has been leaked. The most significative news is that three of them would be held on two countries (among them mine, Uruguay!). These would have over 500km of special stages. The FIA is also looking of a Monte Carlo WRC/IRC doubleheader. Italy would be dropped, NZ would replace Australia as usual, a new Gulf race would replace Jordan and Japan wouldn't return.

Except for the absence of Japan, this is a great calendar. I'd love a Corsica-Sardinia endurance race, and Germany and France (Alsace) be merged.

o- Sweden-Norway
o- Mexico
o- Portugal
o- Argentina-Uruguay
o- Greece
o- Finland
o- Germany
o- New Zealand
o- France
o- Spain
o- Abu Dhabi-Oman-Dubai
o- Great Britain

[CABAIO E'LONA]

I, as a fan, I hope that Uruguay contributes 50 percent of entries list...

[Daniel]

They don't need to drop Italy, just get rid of the poxy Sardinia rally and move back to San Remo.

[wrc1600]

I like Sardinia, at least something different. It is shame that there is no Corsica any more. Both rallies epic..

[Josti]

Italy's assumingly back on the 2013 calender with a different rally on the main land.

I find it to be a solid calender. Bringing back endurance is a good move.

[Plan9]

would Sweden/Norway be endurance or seperate events??? 2 snow rounds would be cool (no pun intended) =)

[Josti]

would Sweden/Norway be endurance or seperate events??? 2 snow rounds would be cool (no pun intended) =)

I don't think it'll be endurance. Just a stage or two in Norway, like this year.

Calendar, bar running dates, now confirmed on Autosport.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/90699

[N.O.T]

3 endurance rallies is stupid....costly and contrary with the modern rules and philosophy of the sport..... bring safari or something similar back and ditch those cross-country failures...

the countries involved are very nice though... a small doubt about the acropolis rally....but we have to wait and see what happens this year.

[BleAivano]

it will probably be more then just a stage or two, atleast that it what i have read.

[BleAivano]

I don't think it'll be endurance. Just a stage or two in Norway, like this year.

Calendar, bar running dates, now confirmed on Autosport.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/90699

it will probably be more then just a stage or two in norway, atleast that is what i have read.

[Motorsportfun]

They don't need to drop Italy, just get rid of the poxy Sardinia rally and move back to San Remo.

Sardinia, this year, will give a completely unknow and new Day 1 challenge for the crews. Isn't it good for the show? Only Meeke saw something of these stages... And every year there are new challenges... who else can do this?

For next edition (if will be run) the project is to do a mixed events (with mixed STAGES tarmac-gravel) near Cagliari, like Cyprus back in 2010 IRC! You see? Another new challenge...

A start in Rome (3 mill population), to continue in Sardinia and arrive in Cagliari (500k population) should be fine.

[Daniel]

Yes, but San Remo is better

[pino]

Yes, but San Remo is better

Best line you've ever written in here :up: :p :

[pino]

Bring Sanremo back now ! :D

PwlM3a_uFR4&feature

[AndyRAC]

Have to agree, bring Sanremo back - a WRC 'classic', and yet another which was dropped. Sardinia/Sardegna - is just another dusty Mediterranean rally.......

[Motorsportfun]

Forget Sanremo, the Ligury Region gives 12k euros for the rally, there are no main "sponsors". A WRC event in Italy could be arranged between Rome and Rimini/Misano Adriatico, on gravel... or mixed in Tuscany, starting from Rome and finish in Florence.

[nzabevAMSM]

3 endurance rallies is stupid....costly and contrary with the modern rules and philosophy of the sport..... bring safari or something similar back and ditch those cross-country failures...

+1

[NaBUru38]

And who's paying the African rally? I'd love it too, but without economic backing there can't be a world-class rally there or anywhere.

Asi I said, Sardinia and Corsica should combine forces.

[koko0703]

I'm not too sure about Abu Dhabi-Oman-Dubai but I guess Abu Dhabi has to be there considering their promotion in the sports. Hold France in Corsica and bring back Monte and Safari, and it would be my ideal calender.

[Sulland]

would Sweden/Norway be endurance or seperate events??? 2 snow rounds would be cool (no pun intended) =)

Same event, hopefully 2 days in Sweden and 2 in Norway, bit probably 2 in Swe and 1 in Nor in 2012. Maybe longer in 13.

[Barreis]

Bring back Safari. :)

[nzabevAMSM]

Bring Sanremo back now ! :D

PwlM3a_uFR4&feature


What about 1000 miglia in Brescia, is it good place to run WRC? Mainland Italy, near Milan, great history name, tarmac surface ...

[Motorsportfun]

What about 1000 miglia in Brescia, is it good place to run WRC? Mainland Italy, near Milan, great history name, tarmac surface ...

Too small budget to host a WRC event...

[J4MIE]

I think this looks a good calendar for next year, will be interesting to see how the longer events go. Will they still be over three days, have longer days, or just longer stages? Of course it would be great to see the Safari back but I can't see it happening anytime soon :(

Hopefully dates can be sorted out soon as I'm keen to see where I can go ;)

[dimviii]

Of course it would be great to see the Safari back but I can't see it happening anytime soon :(
Jamie is not nessesary to bring back Safari as it was.They can bring back with modern configuration ie smaller ss etc.
It will be very nice for the sport with no doubt.

[J4MIE]

Jamie is not nessesary to bring back Safari as it was.They can bring back with modern configuration ie smaller ss etc.
It will be very nice for the sport with no doubt.

Yes it would have to be done the "modern" way, however I was there for the African Championship round last year and whilst absolutely spectacular it just wouldn't be allowed to run like that in the WRC, the FIA wouldn't have it. Organisational issues, "closed" roads which traffic was still on, marshals giving up and leaving halfway through stages which leads to obvious spectator issues. They would need to have a huge injection of money as well. I would love to see it running and if it is I'll definitely be there to see it, but as I said the FIA (and probably the teams) wouldn't do it. But if they are looking at having a marathon/endurance event, and getting some classic events back into the calendar, it would be ideal.

[tfp]

I dont want the safari rally back. As good an event it was, I want Colin Mcrae to stay the most recent winner there...

[N.O.T]

I dont want the safari rally back. As good an event it was, I want Colin Mcrae to stay the most recent winner there...

LOL.....

[J4MIE]

Is there any information about the Argentinian (/Uruguayan) event? Or is it all still in the initial planning phase?

When are dates likely to be sorted out, does anyone know?

[NaBUru38]

Thanks for the question, J4mie. :) There's nothing to be heared in Uruguay's limited motoring press. Argentines don say much either - they got the news by Autosport too. It must be a Thursday street special stage in Montevideo, then a quick trip to Córdoba.

[Plan9]

I only hope they will have this streamed on the internet. Also wondering why they haven't done more to get Monte Carlo back sooner. I also think North America should be considered as it seems that Mini and Ford could pick up some customers there, Citroen probably not as it found in Japan

[Hartusvuori]

There are a spread full of speculation on Middle East/Abu Dhabi 2012 event and "longer distance events" on the latest GPWeek (http://www.gpweek.com/).

[General Prim]

Why not Morocco? The pics from historic event are great!

[jonkka]

I dont want the safari rally back.

Me neither but for entirely different reasons.

[General Prim]

Why do you not want Safari back? What do you have against it? I need reasons to forget one classic event like it, not simply no. I attended Safari for the first time in 1986 and it always will be be in my mind
OK in those times you can only see the cars maximum two times each day after travelling hundred of kms, but that was ADVENTURE, not nowdays that rallies are only sprints...

[Sulland]

I undeestand the whish from FIA to spread the sport to more continents, but the manufacturers should have a say in where they would like to rally from a marketing point of view. Not all new venues makes sense, and lets face it, the sport is still mostly european - since there is where the money is.

Maybe they should look at places like India, China, Brazil and North America where markets are huge.

[General Prim]

I am posting the answer of a friend of mine to my question....:

"Dear XX: Unfortunately life has changed since the "Good Old Days" of Kenya.

There are of course many detailed reasons why the Safari cannot happen again. Rally car design must allow the same type of car to win rallies everywhere in the world, but that situation could change, although I do not think the manufacturers would want that.

The major reason is that there is nobody capable of organising the event, The Kenya people are HOPELESSLY disorganised, both in administration but even more important, in commercial matters. In your old days, there was a special spirit that all the commercial companies in Kenya wanted to help each other make the Safari a success, for their joint benefit and for their country. Now their country is no better than any other African country, Tribes still kill each other, the leaders steal all the money. You will be telling me next that it is a pity the WRC does not still go to Ivory Coast...

These days the sport has good quality standards which the Kenya people can never accept. There is endemic stealing, eternal communication trouble, physical danger in the streets - so why have a rally there? Just for the chance for Citroen to sell a few more cars????

And we have quality standards as well. Even 20 years ago, it did not matter if a rally car killed a black person, Now it could threaten the whole sport.

The best thing we have about Safari are the memories and our old images, You cannot take 20 years off your life and pretend.

So now we come to an important problem. What do we do about Abu Dhabi? Did you see GPW this week?

For me the best thing about the sport is the ever-changing opportunity. We were lucky we remember Safari in the days it was worth remembering".

[N.O.T]

[B]
Now their country is no better than any other African country, Tribes still kill each other, the leaders steal all the money. You will be telling me next that it is a pity the WRC does not still go to Ivory Coast...


we have the same problems over here but we still organise a WRC event.

[CABAIO E'LONA]

in 2012 there will be no rally in Uruguay, endurance, but only in Argentina....

[NaBUru38]

That's not what Uruguayan F1 / Olympics journalist Mario Uberti said today (http://motormario.com/avanza-la-insercion-de-uruguay-en-el-mundial-de-rally). Time will tell.

[NaBUru38]

2012 World Rall Championship provisional calendar:

January 22 - Monte Carlo
February 12 - Sweden
March 11 - Mexico
April 1 - Portugal
April 29 - Argentina
May 27 or June 6 - Greece
June 24 - New Zealand
August 5 - Finland
August 26 - Germany
September 16 - Great Britain
October 7 - France
October - Italy
November 4 - Spain

[BDunnell]

3 endurance rallies is stupid....costly and contrary with the modern rules and philosophy of the sport..... bring safari or something similar back and ditch those cross-country failures...

Have to say I agree in part. I don't understand the rationale behind these cross-border events when the Safari would fulfil that long-distance requirement at a stroke — to say nothing of a five-day RAC (as I insist on calling it). I can dream, can't I?

[Daniel]

Have to say I agree in part. I don't understand the rationale behind these cross-border events when the Safari would fulfil that long-distance requirement at a stroke — to say nothing of a five-day RAC (as I insist on calling it). I can dream, can't I?

Well at least this year Rally GB is coming back to North Wales. I'm going to enjoy freezing my bollocks off on the Orme :D

[bowler]

The Safari can never be what it was, and it will not run again in the same format. The format can not be used anywhere in the world, so the Safari will be a memory.

[wrc1600]

Endurance doesn't necessarily mean 5 days event, cold be even 3 with longer loops, night stages etc. Form my point of view when going to rally I want to see as much as possible and spend as little as possible. So cross country rallies mean I need to spend for extra charges in car rental, petrol, accoodation etc. For many spectators that's not good idea but longer loops don't make big differance in my budget and I am busy after 5 pm.

[Hartusvuori]

Handbrakes & Hairpins reports on Monte Carlo 2012 route:
BREAKING NEWS: WRC Monte Carlo Rally 2012 itinerary and programme « HANDBRAKES & HAIRPINS (http://handbrakeshairpins.wordpress.com/2011/07/07/breaking-news-wrc-monte-carlo-rally-2012-itinerary-and-programme/)

Stages from Wednesday to Sunday.

[N.O.T]

Handbrakes & Hairpins reports on Monte Carlo 2012 route:
BREAKING NEWS: WRC Monte Carlo Rally 2012 itinerary and programme « HANDBRAKES & HAIRPINS (http://handbrakeshairpins.wordpress.com/2011/07/07/breaking-news-wrc-monte-carlo-rally-2012-itinerary-and-programme/)

Stages from Wednesday to Sunday.

5 days of rallying...nice and 433 of total stage Kms...nice.

[handbrakes&hairpins]

5 days of rallying...nice and 433 of total stage Kms...nice.

Looks to be a brilliant rally!

[Mirek]

One would say that there are only very few stages each day but on the other hand they are very long and spectators can see majority of them without any stress. It will be nice holiday :)

[makinen_fan]

nice to see a classic rally back in WRC and also taking it a step further to include many miles and a move away from the recent standardised rally formats

[focus206]

hmmm it's ok but I would have preferred a 3 days format with more stages and more kms each day...

[Priorat]

I only see the same itinerary spread in more days. I want to see the timetable but it looks like there will be a lot of empty time there

[Mirek]

I think that is made that way to keep people on one stage and therefore to keep surrounding mountain roads opened. It's really very difficult with thousands of spectators moving through narrow mountain roads especially wit snow and ice. Even last year when it was "only IRC" the road to Turini from Peira Cava was later blocked by many kilometers of spectator cars and near Col St. Jean on SS Moutauban it was similar every year I was there. Since there are almost no connection roads, the large movement of spectators means a big risk of stage cancellation.

[intheway]

Wow, 5 days could be great. Tough on spectators though!
Although with 5 days, you could afford to take a day or two off and go on the piss...

[Priorat]

I think that is made that way to keep people on one stage and therefore to keep surrounding mountain roads opened. It's really very difficult with thousands of spectators moving through narrow mountain roads especially wit snow and ice. Even last year when it was "only IRC" the road to Turini from Peira Cava was later blocked by many kilometers of spectator cars and near Col St. Jean on SS Moutauban it was similar every year I was there. Since there are almost no connection roads, the large movement of spectators means a big risk of stage cancellation.

Yes, I know, I've been there almost every year since 1998. What I mean is that if you look the itinerary day by day there is no big difference to seasons 2007-2011. Just a big gap on Saturday morning and one stage on Sunday. I don't see it like a revolution.

[Mirek]

For me it's not a revolution either. But I don't like to be in a hurry, so I like it ;)

[darkstar]

One would say that there are only very few stages each day but on the other hand they are very long and spectators can see majority of them without any stress. It will be nice holiday :)

i totally agree!

[N.O.T]

Greece date might be a bit early....if it was this year at such date we would have a rally in the middle of heavy rain and thunderstorms....like in Portugal 2001

But the calendar looks nice and GB in September will be interesting.

[JAM]

After the criticism of the endurance format, Argentina stepd back his inovational route for 2012 and decided to run the rally only over Cordoba region:

El Diario de Carlos Paz (http://www.eldiariodecarlospaz.com/ampliar_noticia.php?id_noti=2743)

[NaBUru38]

Confirmed 2012 World Rally Championship calendar:

January 17/22 - Monte Carlo
February 9/12 - Sweden
March 8/11 - Mexico
March 29 / April 1 - Portugal
April 27/29 - Argentina
May 25/27- Greece
June 22/24 - New Zealand
August 2/5 - Finland
August 24/26 - Germany
September 13/16 - Great Britain
October 4/7 - France
October 18/21 - Italy
November 1/4 - Spain

2012 Super 2000 World Rally Championship calendar:

January 17/22 - Monte Carlo
February 9/12 - Sweden
March 29 / April 1 - Portugal
June 22/24 - New Zealand
August 2/5 - Finland
September 13/16 - Great Britain
October 4/7 - France
November 1/4 - Spain

No Mexico (major Fiesta market), Germany and Italy (tarmac rallies) - terrible decision. They should have left New Zeland out instead.

2012 Production World Rally Championship calendar:

January 17/22 - Monte Carlo
March 8/11 - Mexico
April 27/29 - Argentina
May 25/27- Greece
June 22/24 - New Zealand
August 24/26 - Germany
October 18/21 - Italy
November 1/4 - Spain

No Finland and Great Britain - terrible decision, they are Group N classics. Mexico and Germany should have been left out instead.

[ProRally]

Confirmed 2012 World Rally Championship calendar:

January 17/22 - Monte Carlo
February 9/12 - Sweden
March 8/11 - Mexico
March 29 / April 1 - Portugal
April 27/29 - Argentina
May 25/27- Greece
June 22/24 - New Zealand
August 2/5 - Finland
August 24/26 - Germany
September 13/16 - Great Britain
October 4/7 - France
October 18/21 - Italy
November 1/4 - Spain

2012 Super 2000 World Rally Championship calendar:

January 17/22 - Monte Carlo
February 9/12 - Sweden
March 29 / April 1 - Portugal
June 22/24 - New Zealand
August 2/5 - Finland
September 13/16 - Great Britain
October 4/7 - France
November 1/4 - Spain

No Mexico (major Fiesta market), Germany and Italy (tarmac rallies) - terrible decision. They should have left New Zeland out instead.

2012 Production World Rally Championship calendar:

January 17/22 - Monte Carlo
March 8/11 - Mexico
April 27/29 - Argentina
May 25/27- Greece
June 22/24 - New Zealand
August 24/26 - Germany
October 18/21 - Italy
November 1/4 - Spain

No Finland and Great Britain - terrible decision, they are Group N classics. Mexico and Germany should have been left out instead.

SWRC needs to do 7 of 8
PWRC needs to do 6 of 8 with 1 long haul minimum

[raybak]

New Zealand in the middle of Winter, would be much better in April.

Ray

[Daniel]

New Zealand in the middle of Winter, would be much better in April.

Ray

NZ is better in the winter, as was Rally Oz.

[raybak]

Daniel,

Just wondering whether you have competed in either of these events in Winter. If you have then maybe you can make a comment. You seem to be a very good armchair expert who has never competed at the top level or any level for that matter.

Ray

[Daniel]

Daniel,

Just wondering whether you have competed in either of these events in Winter. If you have then maybe you can make a comment. You seem to be a very good armchair expert who has never competed at the top level or any level for that matter.

Ray

Rallying isn't all about you Ray. Frankly I think Rally NZ was superb when I spectated on it in winter and have always felt it was better when wet.

Daniel

[raybak]

You seem to have the answer a lot Daniel. It may have suited you to traipse around in mud, but I think Autumn is a perfect time in NZ, mid April seems to be a good temp on the North Island and not too wet.

If Rally Oz was still in WA then Winter would be fine, but being in NSW now I think September works well or if there was a change in the Calendar April May would be ok as well. Then again it also depends on the roads that are chosen for the events and what spectator points are available.

Ray

[Daniel]

You seem to have the answer a lot Daniel. It may have suited you to traipse around in mud, but I think Autumn is a perfect time in NZ, mid April seems to be a good temp on the North Island and not too wet.

If Rally Oz was still in WA then Winter would be fine, but being in NSW now I think September works well or if there was a change in the Calendar April May would be ok as well. Then again it also depends on the roads that are chosen for the events and what spectator points are available.

Ray

You seem to have this thing about your answer being more relevant because you've competed. Some of us haven't had the chance or simply aren't all that bothered. Doesn't mean our answers are any less valid.

[koko0703]

Confirmed 2012 World Rally Championship calendar:

January 17/22 - Monte Carlo
February 9/12 - Sweden
March 8/11 - Mexico
March 29 / April 1 - Portugal
April 27/29 - Argentina
May 25/27- Greece
June 22/24 - New Zealand
August 2/5 - Finland
August 24/26 - Germany
September 13/16 - Great Britain
October 4/7 - France
October 18/21 - Italy
November 1/4 - Spain

2012 Super 2000 World Rally Championship calendar:

January 17/22 - Monte Carlo
February 9/12 - Sweden
March 29 / April 1 - Portugal
June 22/24 - New Zealand
August 2/5 - Finland
September 13/16 - Great Britain
October 4/7 - France
November 1/4 - Spain

No Mexico (major Fiesta market), Germany and Italy (tarmac rallies) - terrible decision. They should have left New Zeland out instead.

2012 Production World Rally Championship calendar:

January 17/22 - Monte Carlo
March 8/11 - Mexico
April 27/29 - Argentina
May 25/27- Greece
June 22/24 - New Zealand
August 24/26 - Germany
October 18/21 - Italy
November 1/4 - Spain

No Finland and Great Britain - terrible decision, they are Group N classics. Mexico and Germany should have been left out instead.

I'm happy to see Monte back in the calender. I rather see GB later in the year but I think it's a good calender.

[Daniel]

I'm happy to see Monte back in the calender. I rather see GB later in the year but I think it's a good calender.

How many rallies have you competed in koko? You might fail the raybak test if you've not competed in as many as him......

[cali]

How many rallies have you competed in koko? You might fail the raybak test if you've not competed in as many as him......
How old are you? jeez ...

[Daniel]

How old are you? jeez ...

28, you?

[rallyfiend]

28, you?

Then you should be old enough to recognise a rhetorical question.

[Daniel]

Then you should be old enough to recognise a rhetorical question.

Of course I saw it, I just chose to disregard it.

[AndyRAC]

Regarding going Endurance and going 'back to the future' - I wonder whether the weekend format of events is under discussion, and having some midweek events?? Having every event at the weekend means clashes with other bigger sporting events - midweek events could possibly avoid this. Any thoughts??

[BDunnell]

Daniel,

Just wondering whether you have competed in either of these events in Winter. If you have then maybe you can make a comment.

Not a legitimate argument, in my opinion. I am quite sure you will, at some point in your life, offered an opinion on something in which you have not been personally involved.

[BDunnell]

Regarding going Endurance and going 'back to the future' - I wonder whether the weekend format of events is under discussion, and having some midweek events?? Having every event at the weekend means clashes with other bigger sporting events - midweek events could possibly avoid this. Any thoughts??

If it's TV viewing figures they're concerned about, I see no reason why midweek events should cause a problem. After all, it's not as if having other sports, especially football, in midweek is deemed utterly impractical in that respect.

There are those of us who will judge Jean Todt's FIA presidency more on what he does with the WRC than any actions he might take with F1.

[AndyRAC]

FWIW I don’t think anything will change – I just think it’s worth discussion, as most events, were midweek/weekdays. Infact, this years Monte ran from Weds – Fri/Sat. The old RAC used to run from Sat/Sun – Weds, and didn’t seem to stop people following it.

I agree with you about Todt though – I think he’s done a pretty good job so far; seemingly making the WRC a priority, and introducing the WorldEnduranceChampionship. F1 isn’t the be all, end all…

[bluuford]

Regarding going Endurance and going 'back to the future' - I wonder whether the weekend format of events is under discussion, and having some midweek events?? Having every event at the weekend means clashes with other bigger sporting events - midweek events could possibly avoid this. Any thoughts??

I think that Monte midweek works very well. It is dark and cold outside, minimal number of motorsport events only skiiing in TV. evenings are long and nice to sit behind your PC, laptop or TV.

The other time is summer. everybody are on a vocation, NORF starting on Thursday is OK. During the summer you even do not know what day it currently is. I think some more summer events can follow this format.

The variety means that the event might start at any time of the week. Some during the weekend, some on Wednesday, some on Monday...

[raybak]

I think bluuford has knocked it on the head, we need variety. No good going to the same old events with the cloverleaf format.

Ray

[BDunnell]

The old RAC used to run from Sat/Sun – Weds, and didn’t seem to stop people following it.

Quite so. That was in the days when people were actually interested in the event, though!

[BDunnell]

I think that Monte midweek works very well. It is dark and cold outside, minimal number of motorsport events only skiiing in TV. evenings are long and nice to sit behind your PC, laptop or TV.

The other time is summer. everybody are on a vocation, NORF starting on Thursday is OK. During the summer you even do not know what day it currently is. I think some more summer events can follow this format.

The variety means that the event might start at any time of the week. Some during the weekend, some on Wednesday, some on Monday...

If we are to have some longer and some shorter events, a mix of midweek and weekend rallies would indeed seem sensible — 1000 Lakes from Friday to Sunday, and RAC from Sunday to Wednesday, for example.

(Sorry for using the old names for these events, but they will never be known any other way to me!)

[AndyRAC]

If we are to have some longer and some shorter events, a mix of midweek and weekend rallies would indeed seem sensible — 1000 Lakes from Friday to Sunday, and RAC from Sunday to Wednesday, for example.

(Sorry for using the old names for these events, but they will never be known any other way to me!)

Don't be sorry, far too much in the WRC was changed for 'silly reasons'. Saying that, as far as I'm concerned, the RAC and RallyGB are totally different events. The RAC is now a Historic event...

[janvanvurpa]

Not a legitimate argument, in my opinion. I am quite sure you will, at some point in your life, offered an opinion on something in which you have not been personally involved.

The question might even be "Has he offered his opinion about how tough it is in winter---to drive around inside a nice dry, warm car? While that evil Danny-boy seemed to be happy to stand out doors in the Arctic like snow storms of near hurricane like conditions--well maybe thats "Typhoon" when your upside down..---anyway Like a typhoon but with freezing temps and drifting snow 1.5 meters deep...."

Gotta wonder about the unintended irony if you imagine the actual scene...car pulls up in howling storm, happy Daniel, big stupid grin, oblivious to the frozen hell he's in, and Raybak "harrumph , harumph from inside the car with the heater blowing full....

Hilarious.

Wait! What constitutes winter in OZ and NZ? 20* C?

[Langdale Forest]

The WRC should be moving back to it's traditinol locations, that means moving the French round from Alsace back to Corsica, Italy back to Sanremo and for rally GB to move out of Wales and be a 4 day event in the north of England.

[MJW]

The WRC should be moving back to it's traditinol locations, that means moving the French round from Alsace back to Corsica, Italy back to Sanremo and for rally GB to move out of Wales and be a 4 day event in the north of England. 4 days in north of England? WRC is for rally cars not mountain bikes. Where will you get the stages? Yorkshire's attempt failed because their proposal was Dalby and Olivers Mount only. Rally GB should include Wales Scotland and England.

[Langdale Forest]

I mean use as many of the Grizedale and Kielder stages as possible and then drop down into Yorkshire where there are many more stages than just Dalby, (Cropton, Gale Rigg, Langdale, Staindale, Boltby and Roppa as well as some more they could possibly find.

[MJW]

I mean use as many of the Grizedale and Kielder stages as possible and then drop down into Yorkshire where there are many more stages than just Dalby, (Cropton, Gale Rigg, Langdale, Staindale, Boltby and Roppa as well as some more they could possibly find.
Yes, but you cant use them, the mountain bikers have taken over. Please note this is not an anti Yorkshire thing, I love Yorkshire. i just say its time to take Rally GB all around England, Scotland and Wales.

[AndyRAC]

I mean use as many of the Grizedale and Kielder stages as possible and then drop down into Yorkshire where there are many more stages than just Dalby, (Cropton, Gale Rigg, Langdale, Staindale, Boltby and Roppa as well as some more they could possibly find.

I don't disagree, but aren't the Forestry Commission in Yorkshire a bit touchy - and have limited the amount of Rallying available for use? Only the Trackrod & R.A.C have use of Dalby & Langdale??

Personally, I'd like to see all interested parties get round the table and put something together, i;e a day in Scotland/Kielder, followed by a day in Yorkshire, then 2 days in Wales. Not going to happen, sadly.....

[MJW]

I don't disagree, but aren't the Forestry Commission in Yorkshire a bit touchy - and have limited the amount of Rallying available for use? Only the Trackrod & R.A.C have use of Dalby & Langdale??

Personally, I'd like to see all interested parties get round the table and put something together, i;e a day in Scotland/Kielder, followed by a day in Yorkshire, then 2 days in Wales. Not going to happen, sadly..... Don't be too despondent, better chance of your wishes coming true now than in the last decade.

[AndyRAC]

I only hope the 'powers that be' can see the bigger picture - the sport & event are best served by having a 'National' event.

[Langdale Forest]

Yes, but you cant use them, the mountain bikers have taken over. Please note this is not an anti Yorkshire thing, I love Yorkshire. i just say its time to take Rally GB all around England, Scotland and Wales.

Dalby Forest is the only forest on the North York Moors with purpose-built mountain bike trails, the other forests like Langdale and Cropton are still popular with mountain bikers though.



I don't disagree, but aren't the Forestry Commission in Yorkshire a bit touchy - and have limited the amount of Rallying available for use? Only the Trackrod & R.A.C have use of Dalby & Langdale??



The Forestery Commision are becoming increasingley restrictive on the amount of stages used. And the Gale Rigg stage had to be shortend because part of the Newtondale Forest drive that is used for the road section approach for the stage has almost completely collapsed, meaning no access to the part of the stage at the bottom of the hill, the start now having to be at Raindale Head now.

[OldF]

Inspired by the post below I did some digging in my old magazines to see how the routes were 20 years ago.


Jyväskylän MM-ralli palaa juurilleen | Keski-Suomi | yle.fi (http://yle.fi/alueet/keski-suomi/2011/10/jyvaskylan_mm-ralli_palaa_juurilleen_2967038.html)

Rally Finland 2012 will most likely be driven only around Jyväskylä area like it have used to do in so many years. This year's experiment with stages further south is said to be succesful economically (which I fail to believe) but there have been critical feedback from spectators and thus return to old form is considered.


So they're going to listen to spectators? They certainly didn't do that over here when RallyGB abandoned Kielder & Yorkshire...
I actually thought this years 1,000 Lakes route was good, and a change from usual...


Flip side of that is that 1000 Lakes goes back to a smaller area. Would people be happy if Rally GB goes back to a close geographical area again? I know that this years event doesn't satisfy spectators who want an all UK event, but from what i hear certain manufacturer teams don't like venturing so far from Cardiff bay, with its hotels and restaurants.


I can see both points for Finland/ 1,000 Lakes - however, as it's nearly always been run out of Jyvaskala, going back to tradition is understandable. RallyGB is of course different. Most of it's history it 'roamed' until the last 10 years (when coincidentally, it's popularity has waned).
Maybe said Manufacturer teams can go and do Rallycross or something less taxing......Or when the sport is getting huge media interest they can start calling the shots!!


RAC route 1991

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii284/OkdF/RACroute1991-1.jpg

Leg 1, 550 km. 9 SS, 50 km
Leg 2, 650 km. 12 SS (SS 10-21), 199 km
Leg 3, 825 km. 12 SS (SS 22-33), 244 km
Leg 4, 322 km. 4 SS (SS 34-37), 74 km

Total 2347 km
Total SS 567 km


NORF route 1991

Leg 1, 2 and 3: http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii284/OkdF/NORFroute11991.jpg

Leg 4 and 5: http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii284/OkdF/NORFroute21991.jpg

Leg 6: http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii284/OkdF/NORFroute31991.jpg

Leg 1 (Thursday), 203 km. 7 SS, 62 km. Start 18:01, Finish 23.40
Leg 2, Jyväskylä-Pieksämäki (Friday), 297 km. 7 SS (SS 8-14), 89 km. Start 9:30, Finish 16:20
Leg 3, Pieksämäki-Jyväskylä (Friday), 134 km. 5 SS (SS 15-19), 35 km. Start 17.20, Finish 21:00
Leg 4, Jyuväskylä-Tampere (Saturday), 371 km. 8 SS (SS 20-27), 150 km. Start 6:30, Finish 14:40
Leg 5 Tampere-Jyväskylä (Saturday, 256 km. 7 SS (SS 28-34), 95 km. Start 15:50, Finish 22:40
Leg 6, (Sunday), 399 km. 8 SS (SS 35-42), 98 km. Start 7:40, Finish 16:10

Total 1660 km
Total SS 529 km

[OldF]

Then a couple of examples from the 1960s.

NORF (Jyväskylän suurajot) 1966:

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii284/OkdF/NORF1966_1.jpg

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii284/OkdF/NORF1966_2.jpg


Acropolis:

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii284/OkdF/Acropolis.jpg

[AndyRAC]

Very interesting, thanks!!!

[Mintexmemory]

Thanks OldF - Leg 1 of the 91 RAC is one of the things I miss most, the Sunday stately home and safari park spectator stages. Trentham Gardens and Alton Towers were great.

[AndyRAC]

Thanks OldF - Leg 1 of the 91 RAC is one of the things I miss most, the Sunday stately home and safari park spectator stages. Trentham Gardens and Alton Towers were great.

I actually think they need to seriously think about bringing some of them back - think of the crowd numbers. It's more likely to attract 'Joe Public'/general motorsport fans than a cold, damp forest....

[Mintexmemory]

I actually think they need to seriously think about bringing some of them back - think of the crowd numbers. It's more likely to attract 'Joe Public'/general motorsport fans than a cold, damp forest....

And they used to televise it live, remember the Sutton Park crowds - Huge!!! (50,000 iirc)

[Doon]

Was the Alton Towers stage there before the theme park?

[BDunnell]

It is incredible to think that we should look back on those 'Mickey Mouse' stages so fondly, given that they used to be derided, but it's true — they were excellent. Very amusing on occasion, too — remember the troubles of Pond in '80 and '84, and Bell and Alen in '87?

[BDunnell]

And they used to televise it live, remember the Sutton Park crowds - Huge!!! (50,000 iirc)

In fact, I don't believe Sutton Park was ever televised live. If my memory serves me correctly, the BBC did not broadcast a Sunday stage live until 1985 at Wollaton Park; in successive years thereafter, they then did so at Cirencester, Weston Park (with the infamously deep ford), Rudding Park and Chatsworth before the live and nightly coverage took a break in 1990. My memory fails me for subsequent RACs, except for Clumber in '93 and '94, the ridiculous Donington rallysprint stage in '95 and Chatsworth in '96 with the tree stump claiming Evans and Head.

[AndyRAC]

It is incredible to think that we should look back on those 'Mickey Mouse' stages so fondly, given that they used to be derided, but it's true — they were excellent. Very amusing on occasion, too — remember the troubles of Pond in '80 and '84, and Bell and Alen in '87?

Amusing..??? Ha ha, not for the drivers...Pondy in the tank of a Rover sliding into a tree, Derek Bell not listening to Mike Nicholson's notes ('oh, Derek...Derek') and Alen rolling slowly in Chatsworth....not forgetting the works Opel Kadetts all 'drowning' in a watersplash......In fact there are so many 'incidents' and lots on LiveTV....or for the highlights shows...

[BDunnell]

Derek Bell not listening to Mike Nicholson's notes ('oh, Derek...Derek')

That was in the forests in '88, wasn't it, when they made it to the finish?

[AndyRAC]

That was in the forests in '88, wasn't it, when they made it to the finish?

You could be right - I just seem to remember him having problems listening to Mike's notes.....(which most Racing drivers do, i;e Kimi)

[Doon]

I remember Chatsworth 1990! Tatton Park is close to me, so i'd love that to come back! It wasn't so long ago that they used them, in 1999 they used Blenheim Place.

[Mintexmemory]

In fact, I don't believe Sutton Park was ever televised live. If my memory serves me correctly, the BBC did not broadcast a Sunday stage live until 1985 at Wollaton Park; in successive years thereafter, they then did so at Cirencester, Weston Park (with the infamously deep ford), Rudding Park and Chatsworth before the live and nightly coverage took a break in 1990. My memory fails me for subsequent RACs, except for Clumber in '93 and '94, the ridiculous Donington rallysprint stage in '95 and Chatsworth in '96 with the tree stump claiming Evans and Head.

You're correct, I shouldn't have connected those two statements in the way I did. Just imagine Weston Park as a Power Stage. I was just getting nostalgic about Sutton, the film and photos from the 80s show crowds 7 or 8 people deep.

[Mintexmemory]

Was the Alton Towers stage there before the theme park?
Well the estate was there before the theme park but I think they only laid on a stage there after the theme park opened.

[J4MIE]

Three weeks from now the East African Safari Classic Rally will be starting in Mombasa.... and goes on for ten days with a rest day halfway through! They do 290km in three stages on the first day (the third stage being 115km) :bounce: SS7 is 154km :up:

The whole route is about 4,100km of which about 2,000km is competitive :eek: I can't quite picture what these distances are as I'm used to the modern WRC events. It will be staggering to see :D

Route - http://www.eastafricansafarirally.com/2011/EASR-Map.pdf

Of course, it will probably never be a WRC event again but it's slightly starting to go back to tradition.... Jean Todt seems to think a safari type rally would be good to have in the championship.

[MJW]

Three weeks from now the East African Safari Classic Rally will be starting in Mombasa.... and goes on for ten days with a rest day halfway through! They do 290km in three stages on the first day (the third stage being 115km) :bounce: SS7 is 154km :up:

The whole route is about 4,100km of which about 2,000km is competitive :eek: I can't quite picture what these distances are as I'm used to the modern WRC events. It will be staggering to see :D

Route - http://www.eastafricansafarirally.com/2011/EASR-Map.pdf

Of course, it will probably never be a WRC event again but it's slightly starting to go back to tradition.... Jean Todt seems to think a safari type rally would be good to have in the championship.
Yes, Phil Mills' company Viking Motorsport - Welcome (http://www.vikingmotorsport.com) is running two cars on the rally, one for Stig and one for John Lloyd. Heared that a historic wrc is coming next year, run in tandem with the modern events, 3 gravel Portugal, Acropolis and GB plus 3 tarmac, Germany, France and Spain, with two additional rallies (possibly Monte and Finland joining in 2013)

[Rallyper]

Also Björn Waldegård will participate.

[wildboar]

Are there any news about the 2012 Rally Argentina? Are they going to make an "endurance events" as they proposed last year?