Koran Burning in the USA

[Eki]

The irony of Bin Laden's retaliation is that it didn't really solve anything. If anything it caused more muslim deaths because America and Britain retaliated by taking on the Taliban and invading two countries lol. The 9/11 attacks also spread more fear amongst inbred thicko's who believe all muslims are hate filled nutters and I really can't help but think Mr Bin Laden did more harm to his religion than any invader in the middle east ever has. Anyway thats a different debate altogether but judging by the reactions to anti islamic actions over the years, it makes it even more amazing that the pretend pastor decided to burn a Koran knowing what the likely reaction could be IMO. I do not condone violence but if you live by the sword you often die by the sword and some people simply put themselves forward for natural selection IMO. :dozey:
Yes, Bin Laden should have known the Americans won't get the message, just like the pastors should have known the Muslims won't get the message.

[CaptainRaiden]

I will throw a Koran in a fire the same day you run across a one hundred yard long unmarked minefield.

Yours will take more intestinal fortitude as I can defend my position with firearms, your life is in the Phates hand.
That would make you either very brave or incredibly stupid.

:confused: Aaand your point being? The pastor did something incredibly stupid, if that's what you're getting at.


Why don't the savage cowards come here and try to kill him, face-to-face?

They've already said they will, even giving exact time and date. Has the pastor said he will go to a Muslim country and burn another Koran?

[555-04Q2]

Well, nobody threw any religion on you. But is it okay for that pastor to burn ANOTHER religion's book? Think about it this way, your best friend has a book that holds great significance to him, probably it belongs to his father who passed away. No matter how wrong it is, the guy obviously has an emotional connection with it. It's only paper and ink. Would you go ahead and burn it? Now, think of a highly religious group the same way. Nothing good can come of burning their book, which they consider holy, especially something which holds great significance to them.

The friends book holds something sentimentel, as it is one handed to him by his father. The book burned by the pastor is his own book he bought and another just like it can be bought the same day from the local book store.

[CaptainRaiden]

The friends book holds something sentimentel, as it is one handed to him by his father. The book burned by the pastor is his own book he bought and another just like it can be bought the same day from the local book store.

And the book burned by the pastor doesn't hold sentimental and passionate values for a highly religious group? You're missing the point completely here. For atheists like us, or agnostics or Buddhists or Hindus or Christians, that book doesn't hold any material, sentimental or religious value. But for Muslims, it is a HUGE deal! Obviously there was no reaction from other peace loving normal Muslims over this. Only the savage extremists reacted, and in a very ugly, terrible way.

So, as Captain VXR pointed out, this is a clear case of one idiot religious extremist, i.e. Terry Jones, provoking another group of savage religious extremists, i.e. the uneducated, uncivilized Muslims.

[555-04Q2]

And the book burned by the pastor doesn't hold sentimental and passionate values for a highly religious group? You're missing the point completely here. For atheists like us, or agnostics or Buddhists or Hindus or Christians, that book doesn't hold any material, sentimental or religious value. But for Muslims, it is a HUGE deal! Obviously there was no reaction from other peace loving normal Muslims over this. Only the savage extremists reacted, and in a very ugly, terrible way.

So, as Captain VXR pointed out, this is a clear case of one idiot religious extremist, i.e. Terry Jones, provoking another group of savage religious extremists, i.e. the uneducated, uncivilized Muslims.

A book is not a religion. It is merely a physical object, like a stone, a rock, a tree...if a so called religeous person cannot see past the physical aspect, they need a lot more help than and god can provide.

[Roamy]

all of this is a crock of sh!t burn it and shoot anyone who opens their lousy pie hole. This world is a cesspool and the more shooting the better.

[gadjo_dilo]

1. Worthless is those middle eastern countries, where too many good American men and women are dying for ingrates. The savages should not be acting like ignorant savages.


Ha! As if americans are the navel of the planet and all the countries where they have problems should parish....
BTW, why are the afghans ingrates? Looks like the good americans are there on a mission to help them. :laugh: :laugh: To my knowledge they weren't asked to come and when you know you're not welcome in a place you try to avoid it.

Interesting fact, one of the UN workers killed in this event was romanian, a really good one, but despite our sadness none of us would blame islam for this.



The savages should not be acting like ignorant savages.
For the first time I agree with you. They should act like educated savages. :laugh:



2. When meeting some savage in the jungle, the goal was to shoot them dead before they did the same to you.

That's the bad thing about being atheist. All religions forbid killing.
But I don't blame you for thinking like this. It's probably part of your culture. Wasn't America built on indians' extermination? :laugh: Worthless people, probably.....

[gadjo_dilo]

A book is not a religion. It is merely a physical object, like a stone, a rock, a tree...if a so called religeous person cannot see past the physical aspect, they need a lot more help than and god can provide.

This aspect was treated in the famous book " The sacred and the profane ". As a manifestation of sacrality, an ordinary object becomes something else, without stopping to be itself ( because it continues to be a part of his cosmic environment ). A sacred rock is still a rock, apparently ( from a profane point of view ) there's nothing to make it different from other rocks. For those who see it as sacred, the current reality transmorms in supernatural reality.

[Eki]

A book is not a religion. It is merely a physical object, like a stone, a rock, a tree...if a so called religeous person cannot see past the physical aspect, they need a lot more help than and god can provide.

A flag is not a country. It's merely a physical object, yet the Finnish law says about the Finnish flag: "Anyone who publicly destroys a Finnish flag or uses it in a disrespectful manner or unlawfully removes a Finnish flag when hoisted to a publicly visible location, will be sentenced to pay a fine."

[555-04Q2]

A flag is not a country. It's merely a physical object, yet the Finnish law says about the Finnish flag: "Anyone who publicly destroys a Finnish flag or uses it in a disrespectful manner or unlawfully removes a Finnish flag when hoisted to a publicly visible location, will be sentenced to pay a fine."

You steal it then, and I'll burn it for you. In fact, I'll roll it and smoke it. While we are at it, we can even smoke our flag and make a mixed ciggy.

[CaptainRaiden]

You steal it then, and I'll burn it for you. In fact, I'll roll it and smoke it. While we are at it, we can even smoke our flag and make a mixed ciggy.

So, are you this selfish or self-indulgent not to understand that what means crap or a joint or paper and ink to you, MIGHT mean something more than that for others? Do you have the intellectual capability to understand and respect that and let them live as they want to, and let them consider a book "holy" if they want to? If not, then you are no different than your average religious intolerant fanatic. Please don't go around telling people that you're an atheist, because you actually would give intellectual Atheists a bad name. Also, probably you need religion more than you think you do.

Or maybe you agree with Terry Jones, who believes Islam is wrong and he needs to create an example by burning their holy book, while carrying firearms and sitting behind a thousand dollar wall of security. Also, he doesn't mind sacrificing the lives of American soldiers for this. The intelligent, educated Muslims are above this and won't respond. But is there one good, sane reason to needlessly provoke the extremists?

[555-04Q2]

So, are you this selfish or self-indulgent not to understand that what means crap or a joint or paper and ink to you, MIGHT mean something more than that for others? Do you have the intellectual capability to understand and respect that and let them live as they want to, and let them consider a book "holy" if they want to? If not, then you are no different than your average religious intolerant fanatic. Please don't go around telling people that you're an atheist, because you actually would give intellectual Atheists a bad name. Also, probably you need religion more than you think you do.

Or maybe you agree with Terry Jones, who believes Islam is wrong and he needs to create an example by burning their holy book, while carrying firearms and sitting behind a thousand dollar wall of security. Also, he doesn't mind sacrificing the lives of American soldiers for this. The intelligent, educated Muslims are above this and won't respond. But is there one good, sane reason to needlessly provoke the extremists?

Non of the above. I stand by my statement that a book is a book, it is not a religion, its just a physical object. If people want to view it as something else, that is their right. I stand by my view that burning any book is just that, burning a book. I don't take acid so I cannot percieve how anyone could see it as something else.

Since you think I am so intellectually challenged, I don't think any further input is required here then.

[CaptainRaiden]

Non of the above. I stand by my statement that a book is a book, it is not a religion, its just a physical object. If people want to view it as something else, that is their right. I stand by my view that burning any book is just that, burning a book. I don't take acid so I cannot percieve how anyone could see it as something else.

Since you think I am so intellectually challenged, I don't think any further input is required here then.

I didn't say I think you are. I asked you a question, also note the "If not, then" before that sentence. Anyway, this whole thing is only going round in circles now.

Well, I think this thread has really become futile. Not that it was so brilliant to begin with. :D Obviously the live and let live philosophy is lost on some people. People keep provoking and attacking each other, and in the end only the innocent lives are lost, while the perpetrators run free.

[555-04Q2]

:up:

[markabilly]

The question was "what makes a country worthless"?

As far as the US is concerned the Middle East is far from worthless, as successive US governments have illustrated clearly. If your view of the region is representative then the US could be seen as the worst kind of colonialist nation. Fortunately I don't believe your view, nor that of the Pastor who likes burning books, is representative.

huh?

You make no sense. worst kind of colonialist? Well a colonialist country with the largest colonial power (which was rivaled only by Spain or Rome in their heyday), was your country when it came to playing the role.

Colonial countries conquer, then attempt to suck the lifeblood out of the country conquered to profit themseleves. The USA, "the worst kind" has been playing that role, but when it comes to sucking out the lifeblood, well everybody is getting their fair share and then some, while these activities are costing this country money, resources, and people.

OTOH, the oil explains the interest in these countries, that are otherwise as worthless. But when they have no oil, well here it is :

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/04/02/ivory.coast.unrest/index.html?hpt=T2


But meanwhile, you have this:

Koussa-US unfreezes assets of top libyan intel chief-terror mastermind mass murderer

New replacement for the Colonel......

Hello, Lockerbie, ggod to see you again....

Talk about principles behind our actions in Libya:

US unfreezes assets of "mass murder suspect"



But as the longtime Libyan intelligence chief and foreign minister, Mr. Koussa is widely believed to be implicated in acts of terrorism and murder over the last three decades, including the assassination of dissidents, the training of international terrorists and the bombing of Pan Am 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland.

“He was both the left arm and the right arm of the regime, its bloodhound,”
said Dirk Vandewalle, a Dartmouth professor who has studied Libya for many years.

Mr. Vandewalle recalled a dinner with friends in Libya a few years ago when one man mentioned Mr. Koussa’s name, a dangerous faux pas. “The conversation just stopped,” he said. “People switched to a different topic. Koussa was considered beyond the pale.”



http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42429139...new_york_times


[] :rolleyes:
Stupid me, I thought all you guys were wanting to go over to Libya to wipe out these bad boys of the Colonel.

Here is your chance, you do not need to go there,

just march on down

to london town

[gadjo_dilo]

I stand by my statement that a book is a book, it is not a religion, its just a physical object. ...... I stand by my view that burning any book is just that, burning a book. I don't take acid so I cannot percieve how anyone could see it as something else.


I see...
Then a painting is a painting, just a physical object, isn't it?
But why if I decide to hang on my wall a painting of a swastika? I'll be jailed for the next ( in my country ) 6 years although it's just of piece of textile with some oil on it coloured in black/white/red representing a symbol which is from ancient times.
Not that I want to change your mind but just for the debate's sake.......

[ArrowsFA1]

huh?

You make no sense. worst kind of colonialist? Well a colonialist country with the largest colonial power (which was rivaled only by Spain or Rome in their heyday), was your country when it came to playing the role.
Indeed it was, which is exactly my point. Talk of "savages", and a contemptuous attitude towards foreign lands that offered only wealth to be extracted, was alive and well when those colonialists found and colonised new worlds. That was in the 17th & 18th centuries.

Your talk of "worthless" Middle East countries and "savages" that live there is worthy of those 17th century colonialists not the US in 2011 and, if your views are representative then it would suggest that the US has a 17th century colonialist attitude towards the Middle East.

Fortunately I don't believe that your talk of "worthless" countries and "their "savage" people is representative.

[markabilly]

Indeed it was, which is exactly my point. Talk of "savages", and a contemptuous attitude towards foreign lands that offered only wealth to be extracted, was alive and well when those colonialists found and colonised new worlds. That was in the 17th & 18th centuries.

Your talk of "worthless" Middle East countries and "savages" that live there is worthy of those 17th century colonialists not the US in 2011 and, if your views are representative then it would suggest that the US has a 17th century colonialist attitude towards the Middle East.

Fortunately I don't believe that your talk of "worthless" countries and "their "savage" people is representative.

no, people here have yet to see through the smokescreen as to why we have continued to be there so foolishly. You criticise our presence freely in the past , but ignore your past criticism to justify Libya.

I am stilll wondering about the power to hurl missiles when the PM gets the urge and what authorization he may have to do it.


And i think these articles cited, show that problem where the chief henchman has his assets unfrozen and is now safe within the loving arms of the british.

meanwhile the ivory coast burns in far worse terror than what Libya has shown us.

If it is all about saving them from themselves, so that they can kill the innocent whenever they think the pedo prophet has had his image insulted, talk about really stupid.

[markabilly]

I see...
Then a painting is a painting, just a physical object, isn't it?
But why if I decide to hang on my wall a painting of a swastika? I'll be jailed for the next ( in my country ) 6 years although it's just of piece of textile with some oil on it coloured in black/white/red representing a symbol which is from ancient times.
Not that I want to change your mind but just for the debate's sake.......

that is the difference between the USA and many countries, you will not be jailed in the USA.

[ArrowsFA1]

no, people here have yet to see through the smokescreen as to why we have continued to be there so foolishly
Where? The Middle East? What "smokescreen" are you referring to?


You criticise our presence freely in the past , but ignore your past criticism to justify Libya.
:crazy: A link illustrating this would be helpful here.


I am stilll wondering about the power to hurl missiles when the PM gets the urge and what authorization he may have to do it.
The Prime Minister has powers to declare war under the Royal Prerogative (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Prerogative), and does not need approval of Parliament to do so AFAIK.

Both our previous Prime Minister and the current Conservative government have talked about surrendering such powers. Interestingly David Cameron said (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article727742.ece) he would do so "to restore trust in politics."

[Eki]

that is the difference between the USA and many countries, you will not be jailed in the USA.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080201052756AAtyGvk




From the U.S. Treasury:

"..Whoever mutilates, cuts, disfigures, perforates, unites or cements together, or does any other thing to any bank bill, draft, note, or other evidence of debt issued by any national banking association, Federal Reserve Bank, or Federal Reserve System, with intent to render such item(s) unfit to be reissued, shall be fined not more than $100 or imprisoned not more than six months, or both.

Defacement of currency in such a way that it is made unfit for circulation comes under the jurisdiction of the United States Secret Service...."

Why? Money is just paper or metal.

[markabilly]

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080201052756AAtyGvk




Why? Money is just paper or metal.

Whoooo, now.....

Guess I better change my ways as i was using hundred dollar bills to light my cigars, camp fires and other "fires".......Guess I will have to go back to using the Koran


Of course I could point the origins and exactly what is meant by that statute but why try to educate the uneducatable

[markabilly]

Where? The Middle East? What "smokescreen" are you referring to?


:crazy: A link illustrating this would be helpful here.


The Prime Minister has powers to declare war under the Royal Prerogative (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Prerogative), and does not need approval of Parliament to do so AFAIK.

Both our previous Prime Minister and the current Conservative government have talked about surrendering such powers. Interestingly David Cameron said (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article727742.ece) he would do so "to restore trust in politics."

1. Smokescreen??? that we are all in it for the good of humanity

2. If you can not remember, why should I bother?

3. Strange. One man gets to send off the whole country to go to war

You forgot about the your friend, you know, the one we were suppose to be killing Libyans to get rid of.......wonder how much "assets" he has got?

[Eki]

Whoooo, now.....

Guess I better change my ways as i was using hundred dollar bills to light my cigars, camp fires and other "fires".......Guess I will have to go back to using the Koran


Of course I could point the origins and exactly what is meant by that statute but why try to educate the uneducatable

Could it be that you consider the dollar almighty and it's a religious symbol for you? Why else would a dollar bill say "In God We Trust"?

[markabilly]

Could it be that you consider the dollar almighty and it's a religious symbol for you? Why else would a dollar bill say "In God We Trust"?

OMG......a criminal and a sinner!!!! when I get out of prison I am headed straight for hell

wonder if bristol and sara will be there.....

[ArrowsFA1]

If you can not remember, why should I bother?
Simply because otherwise yours is a meaningless, unsubstantiated claim.

[Bob Riebe]

Yes, Bin Laden should have known the Americans won't get the message, just like the pastors should have known the Muslims won't get the message.
They got the message and Osama is still in hiding.

[Bob Riebe]

:confused: Aaand your point being?

I was answering your silly statement.
What was your point?

[Bob Riebe]

And the book burned by the pastor doesn't hold sentimental and passionate values for a highly religious group? You're missing the point completely here. For atheists like us, or agnostics or Buddhists or Hindus or Christians, that book doesn't hold any material, sentimental or religious value. But for Muslims, it is a HUGE deal! Obviously there was no reaction from other peace loving normal Muslims over this. Only the savage extremists reacted, and in a very ugly, terrible way.

So, as Captain VXR pointed out, this is a clear case of one idiot religious extremist, i.e. Terry Jones, provoking another group of savage religious extremists, i.e. the uneducated, uncivilized Muslims.
,
You are going all out to defend the murdering Muslim savages.
For what reason?

[Bob Riebe]

Could it be that you consider the dollar almighty and it's a religious symbol for you? Why else would a dollar bill say "In God We Trust"?
Because the people who run/ran this country had faith in God. That is obvious except to those who are either ignorant or stupidly prejudiced against that fact.

[gadjo_dilo]

Because the people who run/ran this country had faith in God. That is obvious except to those who are either ignorant or stupidly prejudiced against that fact.

So what? Those of you ( including some of your fellow countrymen forumers ) who claim they don't trust should be free to use dollars even to wipe their.... :devil:

[gadjo_dilo]

that is the difference between the USA and many countries, you will not be jailed in the USA.

And I must add: the difference consists in the fact that most of the countries have respect for the others and their feelings and USA acts as its citizens are the only ones who counts in the world. There is a shadow of respect for those who serve its interests. The rest are "worthless". Nice! :devil:

[CaptainRaiden]

,
You are going all out to defend the murdering Muslim savages.
For what reason?

You have completely lost the plot, once again. Also, it seems you have trouble understanding the meaning of the word "defend". Have fun at your religious extremist gala - Special Koran Barbecue in the guise of freedom of speech, with your mentor and idol Terry Jones. All the while, some other bunch of Muslim extremist losers burn a Bible in some other part of the world or think of more extreme ways to retaliate. Both sides under the illusion that they sent a message.

[Malbec]

So much talk on this thread about rights. The right to free speech, the right to burn Korans, the right to insult others.

The point isn't about rights, its about responsibilities. Its pretty clear that the usual suspects on this thread know all about their rights but aren't too interested in looking at responsibilities.

[BDunnell]

So much talk on this thread about rights. The right to free speech, the right to burn Korans, the right to insult others.

The point isn't about rights, its about responsibilities. Its pretty clear that the usual suspects on this thread know all about their rights but aren't too interested in looking at responsibilities.

Yet they are deeply concerned when the exercising of those 'rights' is taken to extremes and results in criminal behaviour.

[Hondo]

I haven't been following this whole thread because to me anyway, the issues are more about where you draw a line, and once again, this is a simple matter of enforcing or inflicting your viewpoint upon others. More specifically, a viewpoint rooted in a belief that cannot be proved or disproved.

In this day and age, nobody has a right or reason to murder based upon insult alone, least of all, the murder of parties not even remotely involved in the insult itself. There is no way that can be defended or dismissed.

And what shall the world do when when some obscure scholar and his jihadist band decide that the ownership or display of brown shoelaces is an offense to their religion and their holy book? Shall we bow to their wishes to avoid their bloody rampage? Are we going to blame the future deaths of those that are pulled from the road and murdered upon the people still proudly wearing their brown shoelaces or on the thugs that did the killings?

If this merry band wants to go one on one against those directly involved in the "insult", I have much less of a problem with that. At least they'd be going directly after the source. Of course, if they truly have a verifiable 2.4 million dollar reward and an ensured way to pay it offer going on this preacher's head then it won't be long, in this country, before they have it. Although the head may be delivered, I doubt the reward will be paid.

[Bob Riebe]

You have completely lost the plot, once again. Also, it seems you have trouble understanding the meaning of the word "defend". Have fun at your religious extremist gala - Special Koran Barbecue in the guise of freedom of speech, with your mentor and idol Terry Jones. All the while, some other bunch of Muslim extremist losers burn a Bible in some other part of the world or think of more extreme ways to retaliate. Both sides under the illusion that they sent a message.

I see the truth bothers you.
Oh well....

[Bob Riebe]

So much talk on this thread about rights. The right to free speech, the right to burn Korans, the right to insult others.

The point isn't about rights, its about responsibilities. Its pretty clear that the usual suspects on this thread know all about their rights but aren't too interested in looking at responsibilities.
Responsibility- determined by what?
Your opinion, or from whom?

[555-04Q2]

It's just a ferking book that was burnt! If I am trying to start a braai (barbeque to most of you) and all there is to start it is a Koran or a Bible or an F1 magazine or a Sports Illustrated lying around, I'm gonna use one of them as fuel and not feel any guilt. They are just paper and ink. PAPER AND INK!

[gadjo_dilo]

It's just a ferking book that was burnt! If I am trying to start a braai (barbeque to most of you) and all there is to start it is a Koran or a Bible or an F1 magazine or a Sports Illustrated lying around, I'm gonna use one of them as fuel and not feel any guilt. They are just paper and ink. PAPER AND INK!

Ha! If you see starting a barbecue as a rite act you're free to do it but don't forget to ask some TV channels to shoot you. :devil:

Now I remember that about a month ago we had a quite similar act here ( like burning the Koran ).
15 March is celebrated as the day of hungarians from everywhere and a hungarian extremist who fights for the autonomy of a region in the middle of Romania hanged a doll with the face of a romanian national hero in a public place. Of course it was only a doll rudimentary made from textile materials but its symbol- one of the most loved hero in our history- is very dear to us.

He was punished by his chief to work for 6 months in a region where inhabitants have a real cult for this hero. They couldn't wait to meet the guy...... :devil:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2vDRkjPJY0

[markabilly]

Responsibility determined by common sense, respect for others, and a need not to offend another religious/ethnic group simply because its legal to do so. The shocking part of this is some people seem to need everything written down and passed as law before they judge whether they can do something stupid or not. That really shouldn't be the case and common sense should prevail IMO.

You have repeatedly engaged in posting comments on this forum, that in these "countries' would result in your execution. The mere fact that some of you claim to not beleive in God, means stones to the head.

That you do not get is due to your own prejudices.

Indeed, some of your comments about the USA, are clearly provacative, and my goodness, it would be your fault if people attack anything associated with the British government located in the USA and behead all occupants to be found. After all, you should have known, better "not to offend another religious/ethnic group simply because its legal to do so"

[markabilly]

I really don't appreciate seeing you manipulate the viewpoints of others when you know full well nobody here is defending the murderers who killed those UN workers. We really don't need this kind of posting and to be honest it shows weakness in your arguement if you feel you have to try and make your stance slightly stronger by making false claims about what others have said. Everybody's posts are here for reference and this is at present a healthy debate, so I suggest you either start reading and discussing or don't bother at all. :down:

Fact that you do not see how your own words do exactly that: defending and justifying the murders shows the lack of logic and depth to your thinking.
As you just said:



Responsibility determined by common sense, respect for others, and a need not to offend another religious/ethnic group simply because its legal to do so.

[Daniel]

To the Americans that seem to be be obsessed with rights, would you be happy if I wiped my arse with the declaration of independence or your constitution?

[BDunnell]

Responsibility- determined by what?
Your opinion, or from whom?

So, what examples of behaviour do you consider unacceptable? Different people have very different ideas of what responsibility entails.

[markabilly]

To the Americans that seem to be be obsessed with rights, would you be happy if I wiped my arse with the declaration of independence or your constitution?

I could care less. What you do, that says what kind of person you are, and I may or may not agree with you, but I would defend your right to express yourself.

OTOH, given the logic expressed by others, it will be your fault if I go nuts (or nuttier than I already am) and start chopping off heads of any brits that I can find in revenge. Therefore under the Henners-Arrow logic, you shall not do such things. Period.

[DexDexter]

To the Americans that seem to be be obsessed with rights, would you be happy if I wiped my arse with the declaration of independence or your constitution?

Not all Americans mind you. These fools over here are are just what I would call keyboard warriors. :D

[Daniel]

I could care less. What you do, that says what kind of person you are, and I may or may not agree with you, but I would defend your right to express yourself.

OTOH, given the logic expressed by others, it will be your fault if I go nuts (or nuttier than I already am) and start chopping off heads of any brits that I can find in revenge. Therefore under the Henners-Arrow logic, you shall not do such things. Period.

But would it be right to do what I'm suggesting given then a lot of people won't like it.

[ArrowsFA1]

Therefore under the Henners-Arrow logic, you shall not do such things. Period.
Please explain what "the Henners-Arrow logic" is from your point of view. Henners and Arrow can then see if you have represented their views reasonably.

[DexDexter]

Please explain what "the Henners-Arrow logic" is from your point of view. Henners and Arrow can then see if you have represented their views reasonably.

There is another name for "the Henners-Arrow logic". It's called common sense.

[Daniel]

there is another name for "the henners-arrow logic". It's called common sense.

ouch! :D

[Bob Riebe]

I really don't appreciate seeing you manipulate the viewpoints of others when you know full well nobody here is defending the murderers who killed those UN workers. We really don't need this kind of posting and to be honest it shows weakness in your arguement if you feel you have to try and make your stance slightly stronger by making false claims about what others have said. Everybody's posts are here for reference and this is at present a healthy debate, so I suggest you either start reading and discussing or don't bother at all. :down:

The fact is that is what he is saying whether you like it or not.
His rhetoric says exactly what I suggested point-blank.
----------------
As to your remark about "common sense"
Ebbi Thomas has this to say:
"Science has been unable to clearly define common sense. Philosophers choose to avoid the phrase, because of its lack of precision. Yet people understand the idea of common sense. The Buddhists seek to achieve a common sense view, enhanced with compassion. This article defines common sense as the undefiled output of the prefrontal region of the brain. It is one person's calm and nonjudgmental view of the world. It is not a “commonly held view” as suggested by the dictionary, because what is common sense to one person can be stupidity for another. A common sense view integrates all the information available to one person into a single unemotional perception. With more information available, the common sense view of another person may be different.

[Bob Riebe]

To the Americans that seem to be be obsessed with rights, would you be happy if I wiped my arse with the declaration of independence or your constitution?

And you presume I would go on a murdering ****-fit, why?

[Bob Riebe]

So, what examples of behaviour do you consider unacceptable? Different people have very different ideas of what responsibility entails.

Not the topic of the thread.

[Daniel]

And you presume I would go on a murdering ****-fit, why?

Maybe not you, but I have no doubt that someone would....

[markabilly]

But would it be right to do what I'm suggesting given then a lot of people won't like it.

If you really believe that you have some rational basis for doing it, then go right ahead. Many people paid a huge price because they thought blacks should be able to ride a bus without standing up or sitting in the very back, eat lunch or got to the same school as whites. Many a white person was outraged and many a black person paid the price. Under the logic expressed here, those blacks were irresponsible. They were asking for it and got what they were asking for.

But it does not matter whether you approved of their actions or do not.

Blacks had the right to do it and I think everyone is better off.

Unfortunately, I lived in a time and place to see such things

Of course, you can say that burning a koran is different and stupid. But it does not matter whether you approved of their actions or do not.

[Daniel]

If you really believe that you have some rational basis for doing it, then go right ahead. Many people paid a huge price because they thought blacks should be able to ride a bus without standing up or sitting in the very back, eat lunch or got to the same school as whites. Many a white person was outraged and many a black person paid the price. Under the logic expressed here, those blacks were irresponsible. They were asking for it and got what they were asking for.

But it does not matter whether you approved of their actions or do not.

Blacks had the right to do it and I think everyone is better off.

Unfortunately, I lived in a time and place to see such things

Of course, you can say that burning a koran is different and stupid. But it does not matter whether you approved of their actions or do not.

You are the best example of the failure of the war on drugs I've seen.

[markabilly]

You are the best example of the failure of the war on drugs I've seen.

and you are another example of someone who fails to understand real courage or censorship. To know you will be brutalized and killed if you stand up for racial equality, then go forward with standing up, is a rare form of courage of which you have no clue.

To fail to grasp that censorship based on content, is not acceptable is another example of failing to understand real freedom under the First Amendment.

Claiming or implying that someone should not do certain things because criminals will react, lacks logic and courage to pay the price of freedom, a concept which you equally fail to grasp.

Of course blaming someone other than the criminal is always easier than facing reality.

typical :rolleyes:

[Daniel]

and you are another example of someone who fails to understand real courage or censorship. To know you will be brutalized and killed if you stand up for racial equality, then go forward with standing up, is a rare form of courage of which you have no clue.

To fail to grasp that censorship based on content, is not acceptable is another example of failing to understand real freedom under the First Amendment.

Claiming or implying that someone should not do certain things because criminals will react, lacks logic and courage to pay the price of freedom, a concept which you equally fail to grasp.

Of course blaming someone other than the criminal is always easier than facing reality.

typical :rolleyes:

Stop yammering on about first ammendment rights and think about cause and effect.

Moron burns Koran, morons kill innocent people.

Moron doesn't burn Koran, morons don't kill innocent people.

Pretty simple.

[Bob Riebe]

Stop yammering on about first ammendment rights and think about cause and effect.

Moron burns Koran, morons kill innocent people.

Moron doesn't burn Koran, morons don't kill innocent people.

Pretty simple.

It is amazing how you and others, try to imply that one action is actually no worse than the other.

It is the equivalent of saying a homosexual pedophile who rapes little boys, is no worse, or less evil, than a man who gets conned by a sixteen year old with a fake I.D. and is dressed like a New York Wall Street bar-fly.

The Roman Catholic Church seemed to have a lot people like you running it for awhile.

[Daniel]

It is amazing how you and others, try to imply that one action is actually no worse than the other.

It is the equivalent of saying a homosexual pedophile who rapes little boys, is no worse, or less evil, than a man who gets conned by a sixteen year old with a fake I.D. and is dressed like a New York Wall Street bar-fly.

The Roman Catholic Church seemed to have a lot people like you running it for awhile.

I never said burning a book was worse than taking a life or as bad. But the repercussions sure were bad. Why the hell just not burn the book in the first place?

[BDunnell]

I never said burning a book was worse than taking a life or as bad. But the repercussions sure were bad. Why the hell just not burn the book in the first place?

Apparently, the oh-so-mature reasoning of 'because you can' seems sufficient.

[Bob Riebe]

I never said burning a book was worse than taking a life or as bad. But the repercussions sure were bad. Why the hell just not burn the book in the first place?
As I said in a very early post, they fellow who burned the book, probably got results far exceeding his desire.
If any non-Muslims were killed, that he probably regrets and only that.

[Daniel]

Apparently, the oh-so-mature reasoning of 'because you can' seems sufficient.

You're just jealous, you wish you were free to own a gun, free to burn someone's holy book and so on and so forth!

[BDunnell]

You're just jealous, you wish you were free to own a gun, free to burn someone's holy book and so on and so forth!

And how I wish I lived in a country where such things weren't frowned upon. No-one here knows the meaning of a good night out.

[markabilly]

Stop yammering on about first ammendment rights and think about cause and effect.

Moron burns Koran, morons kill innocent people.

Moron doesn't burn Koran, morons don't kill innocent people.

Pretty simple.


Yes the Arrows-Henner logic at work. Koran burning moron killed the innocent.

Woman is out alone. Woman gets raped. Woman raped herself.

Black man does not want to ride in the back of the bus. Knows the powers that be will do nasty things to blacks and then kill them ih does.. Black man don't ride on the bus. All black man live.

Black man does not ride in back of bus. Many other black men killed. Black man responsible for their death.

[Bob Riebe]

And how I wish I lived in a country where such things weren't frowned upon. No-one here knows the meaning of a good night out.
I would gladly spend a weekend with the Hell's Angels benevolent attitude, than be welcomed for ten hours to spend time at the Democratic National Committee, or even a Washington insider Republican Committee.

At the latter I would know the attitudes are honest, no bs; at the former I know I would be be greeted by two-faced lying self-righteous hypocrites, who would permanently put their thumb on me If they could.

[ArrowsFA1]

Yes the Arrows-Henner logic at work. Koran burning moron killed the innocent.

Woman is out alone. Woman gets raped. Woman raped herself.

Black man does not want to ride in the back of the bus. Knows the powers that be will do nasty things to blacks and then kill them ih does.. Black man don't ride on the bus. All black man live.

Black man does not ride in back of bus. Many other black men killed. Black man responsible for their death.
Your words. Your logic.

[markabilly]

Your words. Your logic.

your momma!!

[markabilly]

maybe Dunnell-Daniel sounds better, but BS by any other name would still stink :rotflmao:

[Bob Riebe]

Apparently, the oh-so-mature reasoning of 'because you can' seems sufficient.
What is or is not "mature" about because you can?

Are you saying do not, simply because you can?

Just another way of saying because I will not you should not either, and I am a superior human being.

[Bob Riebe]

your momma!!

As Gilbert Gottfried would say: SON OF A BITCH! http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/images/smilies/roll_eyes.gif

[BDunnell]

Are you saying do not, simply because you can?

If I had written that, I would be saying it. As I did not, I'm not. Follow?

[Bob Riebe]

If I had written that, I would be saying it. As I did not, I'm not. Follow?
Then answer the question I asked or your rhetoric says you did.

[BDunnell]

Then answer the question I asked or your rhetoric says you did.

Bob, go away.

[Bob Riebe]

Bob, go away.

Ah another who does not like the truth.
Oh well such inconsequential answers as you give speak for you better than yourself.

[BDunnell]

Ah another who does not like the truth.
Oh well such inconsequential answers as you give speak for you better than yourself.

Whatever you say.

[Bob Riebe]

Whatever you say.
Thank you, I know what I am saying is correct but I am glad you agree.

[Mark in Oshawa]

I came here for an argument....no you didn't...yes I did....THAT's contradiction....no it isn't...yes it is......

oh lord...

[markabilly]

I came here for an argument....oh lord...

No you did not. You just wanted to rubber-neck

Anyway, you rang. Is there anything i can do for you today?

That is other than fix Daniel, dunnel, henner and arrow's way of thinking??
I work miracles, but i do not do the impossible.

[robee1328]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuAsYBBi-Oc

[Don Capps]

Bob, go away.

No, Bob should not go away.

Bob does serve an important purpose here and elsewhere that he posts his thoughts, although that purpose would be much to his dismay I would assume.

Bob serves to remind me as why I believe what I believe.

It would appear that Bob does not actually know anyone who is a Muslim much less have any interaction with the Muslim community. Nor does Bob seem to have spent time in foreign lands, dealing with cultures that are quite different than those of his little Minnesota community. I am not sure that Bob has ever seen military service, but I tend to think not, or at least not down at the sharp end of the stick in combat given that Bob is often giving voice to the sorts of things that come easily to Chicken Hawks. Nor does Bob seem to be all that inquisitive in the intellectual sense, especially in light of this repeated references to truth and the truth as he knows it, as so often demonstrated by his non sequitur arguments.

Therefore, I wish to personally thank Bob for providing an excellent paradigm to avoid, one that I can take measures to ever being akin to. Thanks to Bob, I have a better sense of the beliefs one should have whenever facing the trials, tribulations, and problems that confront us -- just don't do or believe as Bob would seems to be a credo to live by.

So, thanks, Bob!

[Bob Riebe]

No, Bob should not go away.

Bob does serve an important purpose here and elsewhere that he posts his thoughts, although that purpose would be much to his dismay I would assume.

Bob serves to remind me as why I believe what I believe.

It would appear that Bob does not actually know anyone who is a Muslim much less have any interaction with the Muslim community. Nor does Bob seem to have spent time in foreign lands, dealing with cultures that are quite different than those of his little Minnesota community. I am not sure that Bob has ever seen military service, but I tend to think not, or at least not down at the sharp end of the stick in combat given that Bob is often giving voice to the sorts of things that come easily to Chicken Hawks. Nor does Bob seem to be all that inquisitive in the intellectual sense, especially in light of this repeated references to truth and the truth as he knows it, as so often demonstrated by his non sequitur arguments.

Therefore, I wish to personally thank Bob for providing an excellent paradigm to avoid, one that I can take measures to ever being akin to. Thanks to Bob, I have a better sense of the beliefs one should have whenever facing the trials, tribulations, and problems that confront us -- just don't do or believe as Bob would seems to be a credo to live by.

So, thanks, Bob!
Incorrect or correct, you may believe as you wish (I have worked and partied- the naughty haughty ones do that- with a fair amount of Muslims among other things) and you are welcome.

[BDunnell]

No, Bob should not go away.

Bob does serve an important purpose here and elsewhere that he posts his thoughts, although that purpose would be much to his dismay I would assume.

Bob serves to remind me as why I believe what I believe.

It would appear that Bob does not actually know anyone who is a Muslim much less have any interaction with the Muslim community. Nor does Bob seem to have spent time in foreign lands, dealing with cultures that are quite different than those of his little Minnesota community. I am not sure that Bob has ever seen military service, but I tend to think not, or at least not down at the sharp end of the stick in combat given that Bob is often giving voice to the sorts of things that come easily to Chicken Hawks. Nor does Bob seem to be all that inquisitive in the intellectual sense, especially in light of this repeated references to truth and the truth as he knows it, as so often demonstrated by his non sequitur arguments.

Therefore, I wish to personally thank Bob for providing an excellent paradigm to avoid, one that I can take measures to ever being akin to. Thanks to Bob, I have a better sense of the beliefs one should have whenever facing the trials, tribulations, and problems that confront us -- just don't do or believe as Bob would seems to be a credo to live by.

So, thanks, Bob!

Don, you make some very good points, as ever. But I would still far rather the forums were entirely populated by polite, courteous, even learned individuals such as yourself.

[Bob Riebe]

Don, you make some very good points, as ever. But I would still far rather the forums were entirely populated by polite, courteous, even learned individuals such as yourself.
Amazing I thought is was against forum rules to attack posters, but well then when you do not have anything else to say, I guess that is all that is left.

Once again, que sera, sera.

[markabilly]

Problem is Billy, I haven't once defended or justified the murders though have I?

You are making things up because your arguement has run out of steam.

Oh, you never said that the UN people deserved to die, but you clearly say that their deaths were caused by the koran burning.




Some of my comments about the USA are provocative? Would you do me the pleasure of quoting these or at least proving that?

More like hot air on your part.


What, you have no short term memory?

Was that you claiming you had an IQ of 135 or was that 35?



Don, you make some very good points, as ever. But I would still far rather the forums were entirely populated by polite, courteous, even learned individuals such as yourself.

You forgot to add: "who agree with my philosophy of run and hide, and under no circumstances never ever hold a criminal solely responsible for their acts"

.
Still waiting for those answers...........

[markabilly]

No, Bob should not go away.

Bob does serve an important purpose here and elsewhere that he posts his thoughts, although that purpose would be much to his dismay I would assume.

Bob serves to remind me as why I believe what I believe.

It would appear that Bob does not actually know anyone who is a Muslim much less have any interaction with the Muslim community. Nor does Bob seem to have spent time in foreign lands, dealing with cultures that are quite different than those of his little Minnesota community. I am not sure that Bob has ever seen military service, but I tend to think not, or at least not down at the sharp end of the stick in combat given that Bob is often giving voice to the sorts of things that come easily to Chicken Hawks. Nor does Bob seem to be all that inquisitive in the intellectual sense, especially in light of this repeated references to truth and the truth as he knows it, as so often demonstrated by his non sequitur arguments.

Therefore, I wish to personally thank Bob for providing an excellent paradigm to avoid, one that I can take measures to ever being akin to. Thanks to Bob, I have a better sense of the beliefs one should have whenever facing the trials, tribulations, and problems that confront us -- just don't do or believe as Bob would seems to be a credo to live by.

So, thanks, Bob!

You should stick to motor racing history, for here you are just engaging in destitute personal attacks based upon shallow prejudices and stereotypes, hoping to please the likes of henners, dunnel, eki and their followers, which you appear to have succeeded in doing.

[ArrowsFA1]

So, what examples of behaviour do you consider unacceptable? Different people have very different ideas of what responsibility entails.

Not the topic of the thread.

I would have thought that is exactly the point of the thread. Is it acceptable to do something with complete disregard for the conseqences?

[555-04Q2]

There is another name for "the Henners-Arrow logic". It's called common sense.

Exactly. Its common sense that you don't kill people because someone burnt a book.

[Daniel]

Exactly. Its common sense that you don't kill people because someone burnt a book.

Of course, but two wrongs don't make a right......

[555-04Q2]

Of course, but two wrongs don't make a right......

I still don't see what's wrong with someone burning a book that they bought with their own money. I don't care what book it was or how many TV cameras were filming it. The other day a guy in China destroyed his Lamborghini with sledgehammers in front of thousands of people and cameras because he wasn't happy with it. Italians are fanatical about their supercars but we don't see Italians killing Chinese because of his actions.

[Zico]

No, Bob should not go away.

Bob does serve an important purpose here and elsewhere that he posts his thoughts, although that purpose would be much to his dismay I would assume.

Bob serves to remind me as why I believe what I believe.

It would appear that Bob does not actually know anyone who is a Muslim much less have any interaction with the Muslim community. Nor does Bob seem to have spent time in foreign lands, dealing with cultures that are quite different than those of his little Minnesota community. I am not sure that Bob has ever seen military service, but I tend to think not, or at least not down at the sharp end of the stick in combat given that Bob is often giving voice to the sorts of things that come easily to Chicken Hawks. Nor does Bob seem to be all that inquisitive in the intellectual sense, especially in light of this repeated references to truth and the truth as he knows it, as so often demonstrated by his non sequitur arguments.

Therefore, I wish to personally thank Bob for providing an excellent paradigm to avoid, one that I can take measures to ever being akin to. Thanks to Bob, I have a better sense of the beliefs one should have whenever facing the trials, tribulations, and problems that confront us -- just don't do or believe as Bob would seems to be a credo to live by.

So, thanks, Bob!



You are all wasting your time trying to encourage Bob etc to become less Christian fundamentalist and more accepting of other faiths..
This thread seems to be at the top of the list in Chit Chat every time I log in, I pop by from time to time only to read the same old rhetoric and was left wondering why you guys even bother, but I like your reply Don, you have choosen to somehow take something positive from it.

[Bob Riebe]

I would have thought that is exactly the point of the thread. Is it acceptable to do something with complete disregard for the conseqences?
As I said several time, the consequences were probably not disregarded.

On a long shot, they may have hoped that a muslim in the U.S. would try to kill them, probably not, but not impossible.

[Bob Riebe]

You are all wasting your time trying to encourage Bob etc to become less Christian fundamentalist and more accepting of other faiths..
This thread seems to be at the top of the list in Chit Chat every time I log in, I pop by from time to time only to read the same old rhetoric and was left wondering why you guys even bother, but I like your reply Don, you have choosen to somehow take something positive from it.

If I was a fundamentalist I would probably work for the Salvation Army, which my atheist sister does.
Sadly I ignore too many fundamentals, but as you said I am a fundamentalist, I must be improving.

[Bob Riebe]

I'm sure if this pastor decided to buy a Koran and burn it without publicizing the fact he was burning it, nobody would have had a problem with it.

I don't agree with how strict muslims take their religion but I also have no business trying to provoke a reaction from them, as their religion has no impact on my daily life. This pastor didn't burn a Koran because he fancied popping into Waterstones and burning some random book. He burnt it to provoke a reaction from Islamic groups which is what he got, but unfortunately in a deadly form. He knew from past reporting in the press what is likely to happen if you insult Islam, and he went ahead anyway? This is the same religion where extremists threatened human life over a provocative cartoon of their Prophet, and he thought it would be OK to burn their holy book simply because he could? The guy is a nutjob and should really be focussing on his own religion if thats his job rather than attempting to provoke violence from other religious fanatics to score publicity points for his own ego/church. I don't agree with violence and I will celebrate the day this sort of extremism is banished, but I also don't have any respect for people putting others lives in danger for their own gains like this moron. I also have no respect for people with no common sense and who use vague civil liberties as their ticket to inciting violence on a whim. :arrowed:

It may be, may be, because he and others are tired of lying feces coming out of Washington, starting with Bush, of the "religion of peace" lie they are trying to pass Islam with to cover up their two-faced politics.

[markabilly]

Problem is Billy, I haven't once defended or justified the murders though have I?

You are making things up because your arguement has run out of steam.


Oh, you never said that the UN people deserved to die, but you clearly say that their deaths were caused by the koran burning.






What, you have no short term memory?

Was that you claiming you had an IQ of 135 or was that 35?




You forgot to add: "who agree with my philosophy of run and hide, and under no circumstances never ever hold a criminal solely responsible for their acts"

.
Still waiting for those answers...........


I'm sure if this pastor decided to buy a Koran and burn it without publicizing the fact he was burning it, nobody would have had a problem with it.

I don't agree with how strict muslims take their religion but I also have no business trying to provoke a reaction from them, as their religion has no impact on my daily life. This pastor didn't burn a Koran because he fancied popping into Waterstones and burning some random book. He burnt it to provoke a reaction from Islamic groups which is what he got, but unfortunately in a deadly form. He knew from past reporting in the press what is likely to happen if you insult Islam, and he went ahead anyway? This is the same religion where extremists threatened human life over a provocative cartoon of their Prophet, and he thought it would be OK to burn their holy book simply because he could? The guy is a nutjob and should really be focussing on his own religion if thats his job rather than attempting to provoke violence from other religious fanatics to score publicity points for his own ego/church. I don't agree with violence and I will celebrate the day this sort of extremism is banished, but I also don't have any respect for people putting others lives in danger for their own gains like this moron. I also have no respect for people with no common sense and who use vague civil liberties as their ticket to inciting violence on a whim. :arrowed:

bingo.

Perhaps with an IQ of 35 you might well fail to grasp what I was talking about. But someone with an IQ of 135, well what BS!!

Lest us see, justify as in to excuse, explain, make allowance for,

OTOH, your talent at speaking from both sides of the mouth, that is well done speech you got there

Yep, I can just see you banishing those moslem extrmemists

[BDunnell]

You are all wasting your time trying to encourage Bob etc to become less Christian fundamentalist and more accepting of other faiths..
This thread seems to be at the top of the list in Chit Chat every time I log in, I pop by from time to time only to read the same old rhetoric and was left wondering why you guys even bother, but I like your reply Don, you have choosen to somehow take something positive from it.

Don is a gentleman in the truest sense of that word.

[Bob Riebe]

Don is a gentleman in the truest sense of that word.

Yes, using a thread to ignore the topic and attack a poster, that makes him a gentlemen in every liberals play

[BDunnell]

Yes, using a thread to ignore the topic and attack a poster, that makes him a gentlemen in every liberals play

He was extremely polite in everything he said — as am I when I say that, again, I agree with every word you write.

[Don Capps]

Yes, using a thread to ignore the topic and attack a poster, that makes him a gentlemen in every liberals play

Bob -- and the others who agree with him, are entirely free to cast all the aspersions my way that they wish. It does not bother me in the least. I have served the United States faithfully and well both in and out of uniform since the Sixties, being deployed in Southeast Asia and Southwest Asia for about five years of that time. While I certainly disagree with Bob's rather caustic remarks about Muslims and those in the Middle East in general, barring any objections from those running this forum, he is quite free to do so. Although I fully agree with Justice Potter Stewart's observation, "That you have the right to do something, does not mean it is the right thing to do," one does not pick and choose whose rights you are defending when standing the long watches that are often necessary when serving in the military. Again, Bob and the others are quite free to toss any insults they wish my way, I have no fear of them.

That Bob chooses to freely and openly be intolerant and demeaning regarding the religion of some is, indeed, unfortunate in my view, but, once again, it is his opinion and so be it. It is also interesting that Bob, intentionally or not, tosses out his own ad hominem digs, freely using the word "liberal," for instance, as a pejorative in many cases. Again, Bob is completely free to do so.

I strongly encourage Bob -- and the others -- to continue to post his thoughts and opinions here and elsewhere. One need not agree with Bob, but one does need to be agreeable towards Bob and his efforts to articulate his views on life and the world, but one must also be tolerant and broad-minded as well.

While I might not care much for Bob's opinions and thoughts on various matters, that is also irrelevant. Although some missed the earlier point regarding my appreciation for Bob's offering us his opinions, taking it as an "attack" on Bob, it was actually a appreciation for being able to closely examine what one thinks and believes and why one does so, something we seem to not do very often. Bob, to his great credit, often provokes that sort of reflection. Bob also serves as a reminder that when everyone is thinking alike that no one is thinking.

All in all, Bob -- and those who generally share his views, do serve a worthy purpose in the marketplace of ideas. We would be the poorer without those views expressed by Bob and others regardless of where they are on the political spectrum. While I certainly disagree with most of his views, being quite at odds with Bob's thinking regarding no end of issues, I gladly defend his right to express those views.

With those thoughts, I will depart and leave you to your discussions.

[Roamy]

Well I don't intend to read the Koran, however I read the excerpts that are occasionally posted and have seen "kill the infidels" etc. I also have not heard that there are two Korans - One for the extremists and one for the others. Therefore the Muslim religion (If considered a religion) does not seem to fit with the history, constitution, laws and way of life in this country. So why allow it. So you say freedom of religion. Does this mean any enemy can come up with a religion and use it to gain entry to our country. Somehow I am not comfortable with accepting a religion that oks my death and stoning my chicks. Why should we not just deport these people and move on? Christianity seems to be a part of our beginning and many Christians are being slaughtered in muslim countries. We also allow other religions that do not seek to kill us and take over our justice system. Anyway I have not heard that the Buddists are out to kill me - is this true grasshopper?

[markabilly]

What exactly do you think you have uncovered in what I said? I'd be interested in you theory of how you think I am justifying violence without attempting an underhand insult on my intelligence level. Come on Billy you know when posters start insulting others its a lost arguement. ;)

Are you suggesting because I know in the past (through media sources) that Islamic extremist groups have been violent to anyone criticizing Islam, that suggests I myself condone/defend violence?

Explain yourself clearly if possible.

You the one with the alleged 135 IQ, yet fail to comprehend that which is obvious and dishing out insults.

But if you want to banish those extremists, get your hypcritical butt to the middle east and start banishing. Don't be a coward and sent others to go do it.

[GridGirl]

Therefore the Muslim religion (If considered a religion) does not seem to fit with the history, constitution, laws and way of life in this country. So why allow it. So you say freedom of religion. Does this mean any enemy can come up with a religion and use it to gain entry to our country. Somehow I am not comfortable with accepting a religion that oks my death and stoning my chicks. Why should we not just deport these people and move on? Christianity seems to be a part of our beginning and many Christians are being slaughtered in muslim countries. We also allow other religions that do not seek to kill us and take over our justice system. Anyway I have not heard that the Buddists are out to kill me - is this true grasshopper?

Just out of interest, if you were to deport all muslims from the US where exactly would you deport them to? Also what about 2rd, 3rd and 4th etc generation muslims that have lived nowhere other than the US?

[markabilly]

Just out of interest, if you were to deport all muslims from the US where exactly would you deport them to? Also what about 2rd, 3rd and 4th etc generation muslims that have lived nowhere other than the US?

Don't know about Roamy, but i would send them to live with Henners, so he can "banish" them :laugh: :crazy: :rotflmao: :arrows:

[Roamy]

Just out of interest, if you were to deport all muslims from the US where exactly would you deport them to? Also what about 2rd, 3rd and 4th etc generation muslims that have lived nowhere other than the US?

There are several countries to choose from. Regarding generations - if you are a practicing muslim you get the one way plane ticket. In fairness there are a few other groups in here we could send as well so I am not strictly singling out muslims. Also the EU seems to provide open immigration so in addition to the middle east/northern africa most of the EU would be open. AU also has much land and can accommodate a mass immigration. And yes Henners should be good for a couple of planes full. And you Grid Girl I am confident could change some zoning laws to accommodate the moves.

[Roamy]

I don't think a country with such a mixed race population is in a position to dictate what religions, and types of people it suddenly feels are appropriate to be citizens. Sounds too much like a 'Final Solution' to me and that is something we fought against not so long ago. I do find it amusing to read criticisms of the EU and its apparent relaxed approach to immigration from a country which populated itself almost entirely from immigrants in the past lol. You couldn't write a funnier script. I'm not digging the USA here because alot of the UK's population has been expanded due to immigration and I am secure in my views on that.

At this rate I could be shipped off to Ireland if third generation muslims could be deported simply because a few people are ignorant enough to think because they are muslim they should live in a muslim country. I have a mix of Irish and English heritage and it would be difficult to decide where to send me if my social and political views suddenly didn't suit a government run by the two of you lol. You've given me a laugh all the same. :)

Well Hell Henners if you believe all the infidels should be killed we may as well just shoot you now and save the deportation cost :)

[gadjo_dilo]

Therefore the Muslim religion (If considered a religion) does not seem to fit with the history, constitution, laws and way of life in this country. So why allow it. So you say freedom of religion. Does this mean any enemy can come up with a religion and use it to gain entry to our country. Somehow I am not comfortable with accepting a religion that oks my death and stoning my chicks. Why should we not just deport these people and move on?
No offence but I can't see the difference between you and a taliban. :devil:

Following your reasoning you should understand that some extremist muslims aren't also happy with the american presence on their teritory because the wastern idea of democracy can't fit their history, traditions, way of life, laws, etc. Since they aren't in the military position to deport them they choose to "boom" them from time to time.

[Roamy]

No offence but I can't see the difference between you and a taliban. :devil:

Following your reasoning you should understand that some extremist muslims aren't also happy with the american presence on their teritory because the wastern idea of democracy can't fit their history, traditions, way of life, laws, etc. Since they aren't in the military position to deport them they choose to "boom" them from time to time.

well if they didn't blow our sh!t up maybe we would not be there. I would be real happy if the muslims would quit bombing. And quite frankly I think big changes are on our horizon be it bad or good.
I don't want to be there and I am sure the greater percentage of Americans don't want to be there either. Matter of fact I want to get off the oil standard and let the entire middle east make gas for you.

[Roamy]

And PS if we can just get Trump elected we will be out of there in a heartbeat.

[markabilly]

What exactly do you think you have uncovered in what I said? I'd be interested in you theory of how you think I am justifying violence without attempting an underhand insult on my intelligence level. Come on Billy you know when posters start insulting others its a lost arguement. ;)

Are you suggesting because I know in the past (through media sources) that Islamic extremist groups have been violent to anyone criticizing Islam, that suggests I myself condone/defend violence?

Explain yourself clearly if possible.

Bubba, those were your words, not mine.

Quit being a lazy hypocrite and go do what you wish!!!

Deep down, you are no different than those pastors

[markabilly]

Thats not my belief but do as you must. :)

Bubba, for an alleged IQ of 135, you missed the punch line. "all infidels" :rolleyes:

you being one....................

[markabilly]

Do you think having an IQ of 135 makes me a genius, or that you think I perhaps think I am a genius? lol. 135 is a fairly modest figure for most University graduates I think you'll find.. ;)

So when I used the word "banish" you interpreted that as me suggesting we blow them into smithereens with violence, hence rendering myself as a hypocrite because I previously admitted to not condoning violence???? :laugh: . You've put you foot well and truly in that one Billy.

Do you think its possible to banish extremism within peoples views by educating and communicating with them in order to perhaps change their hatred into an understanding? To banish is not always a suggestion to wade in with a gung ho attitude and wage war on everyone who doesn't agree with your views. A strange concept for some I'm sure. My wishes on this maybe wishful thinking, but its nice to consider an approach of non violence rather than contributing to the stereotype that all westerners are anti Islam and all Muslims support terrorism. ;)

Now Bubba, as we all know, you just added that extra number, in case your momma was looking. I am just trying to figure out if that was a "1" or a "5"....maybe it was the "3"..


As to this:


Do you think its possible to banish extremism within peoples views by educating and communicating with them in order to perhaps change their hatred into an understanding? To banish is not always a suggestion to wade in with a gung ho attitude and wage war on everyone who doesn't agree with your views


Yes sir, you just get on to banishing those views. I am sure the taliban, those Iran "guard" bunch, why even in Iraq, there are plenty of folks who would love to meet you so you can do your banishing on them. "out foul demon, out!!".

:arrows:

And if that all those exorcisms do not work, well Bubba, at least they can say, you died trying :laugh:

[markabilly]

I don't think a country with such a mixed race population is in a position to dictate what religions, and types of people it suddenly feels are appropriate to be citizens. Sounds too much like a 'Final Solution' to me and that is something we fought against not so long ago. I do find it amusing to read criticisms of the EU and its apparent relaxed approach to immigration from a country which populated itself almost entirely from immigrants in the past lol. You couldn't write a funnier script. I'm not digging the USA here because alot of the UK's population has been expanded due to immigration and I am secure in my views on that.

At this rate I could be shipped off to Ireland if third generation muslims could be deported simply because a few people are ignorant enough to think because they are muslim they should live in a muslim country. I have a mix of Irish and English heritage and it would be difficult to decide where to send me if my social and political views suddenly didn't suit a government run by the two of you lol. You've given me a laugh all the same. :)


Bubba, quit trying to fool us. You have never "fought" against anybody in the real sense of the word. And you never will. Do the words "sheep" and bahhh" bring back memories of happy days???

But you have played the "nazi" and "kill the jews" cards. Congrats.

But as to this alleged difficulty:


it would be difficult to decide where to send me if my social and political views suddenly didn't suit a government run by the two of you lol


must be that IQ problem again, as we have already told you where you need to go so you can be banishing them ole devils

[GridGirl]

Markabilly, I'm sorry but I think you have taken the personal insults towards Henners way too far now. If you can't say anything nice and/or constuctive I think we should let this thread lapse. :)

[markabilly]

Markabilly, I'm sorry but I think you have taken the personal insults towards Henners way too far now. If you can't say anything nice and/or constuctive I think we should let this thread lapse. :)

You would think that, since you agree with him trying to hold some backwood preachers responsible for the crimes committed by the true beleivers of islam, being that this is part of your ancestory..

Of course, when he tries to insult others with his claims of a 135 IQ, and all the holier than thou attitude, you have no problem with that or when he implies that i would implement a "final solution"..

I find it very funny, even sad, when he jumps up on his soap box to start preaching how he is going to "banish"...........or dares to use the expression "we fought".

This is not a thread about "nice and/or constructive". It is a thread about savages killing helpless people because they are mad about some book that was burned some 6,000 miles away. And he wants to preeach and change the world, he should stop sitting in his easy chair and go do it.
the hypocrisy of some is truly amazing.

[gadjo_dilo]

This is not a thread about "nice and/or constructive". It is a thread about savages killing helpless people because they are mad about some book that was burned some 6,000 miles away. And he wants to preeach and change the world, he should stop sitting in his easy chair and go do it.
the hypocrisy of some is truly amazing.

Talking about the " savages" , let's not forget they live under war state since the end of the70's.

[GridGirl]

You would think that, since you agree with him trying to hold some backwood preachers responsible for the crimes committed by the true beleivers of islam, being that this is part of your ancestory.

I'm sorry but my ancestory has nothing to do with the personal insults that the last few post have resulted in.


Of course, when he tries to insult others with his claims of a 135 IQ, and all the holier than thou attitude, you have no problem with that or when he implies that i would implement a "final solution"..

Again I dont see why there is any need to be insulting about Henners IQ. You are the one mocking him that is wrong.


I find it very funny, even sad, when he jumps up on his soap box to start preaching how he is going to "banish"...........or dares to use the expression "we fought".

This is not a thread about "nice and/or constructive". It is a thread about savages killing helpless people because they are mad about some book that was burned some 6,000 miles away. And he wants to preeach and change the world, he should stop sitting in his easy chair and go do it. the hypocrisy of some is truly amazing.

Maybe I should have made myself a little bit more clear when saying 'nice and/or constructive'. I was not talking about the topic of the thread in question but the tangent in which the thread was taking because of your posts inparticular and by Henners to some degree by humouring you. The last few posts in my opinion have added absolutely nothing to the debate about the subject of this thread at all.

....and people wonder why the Chit Chat forum is pretty much deserted these days.....

[DexDexter]

Thanks GridGirl, I'm glad I'm not the only person who failed to understand the ramblings of the last few posts in response to my comments. I think we can safely say this thread has run its course which is unfortunate as it was once a healthy debate.

Markability needs a little time off.

[markabilly]

...... it was once a healthy debate.

healthy debate??

That is so funny.

The debate was the effort by the ones (including you) who are afraid of their own shadow and wish to blame the deaths of innocent people upon the act of burning a book.

That is not logical nor mentally healthy, and indeed, calls into question the lack of moral fiber of some around here. Not much different than the same tune I have heard repeated from the same bunch where the victim is blamed for the crimes committed upon them, rather than the criminal. Do I need to add the words "Tony Martin"?

And then you want to go "banish" them, oh yeah, go for it!!!!!

Funny is how you guys want to pick a fight with sly insults of an IQ of 135, but as soon as you get back what you give out and your lack of logic is nailed tight against the wall, you turn into crybabies and can not "understand" the obvious truth. :rolleyes:

You can relax, got other things to do, as I just found some korans on sale cheap at the local salvation army store, and I can use a good smoke, if you know what i mean :s mokin: :s mokin:

so hey smoke them if you got them :p :

And the rest of you, well bubba and the rest of youse guys, can just keep whining about the rights of the scum of the world, and how everyone needs to live their life in fear of pissing them off.

whatever

[Roamy]

rack him Marky

[ArrowsFA1]

healthy debate??
Yes, you know, a debate. An exchange of views by people who do not always agree but can discuss reasonably without resorting to insults, or deliberately distorting & misrepresenting the opinions of others. It's really quite a simple process and can be rather enjoyable.

Unfortunately, and increasingly, healthy debate is being drowned out in certain types of threads.

[CockneyRebel]

I believe that as a result of the burning of a holy book there have been many deaths. Many American deaths also. For my first post, I feel it is strange that there are people like you still around. If someone burned your Old Testament or New would you feel anger?

I feel that is a legitamte question.

[Roamy]

Anger to the point of killing - I think NOT - These people killing over this are simply "Whack"

[Hondo]

I believe that as a result of the burning of a holy book there have been many deaths. Many American deaths also. For my first post, I feel it is strange that there are people like you still around. If someone burned your Old Testament or New would you feel anger?

I feel that is a legitamte question.

If this were the original Koran or even the original scripts used to formulate the Koran, I could understand lashing out and going hunting for the people that actually did the burning, anything else being a sorry excuse for some mindless violence that you, as a mentally distraught victim of the act, are now entitled to. Flags, books, people for real and in effigy are burned world wide every day of the week without causing this sort of nonsense. It doesn't bother me at all. Best analogy I can give would be you coming on my property and taking pictures of everything I own and then leaving and going to a public park and start whooping and hollering while you burn the pictures. I could care less. It doesn't affect the reality of my situation in the least. Now if you come on my property to burn the stuff for real, it won't quite as easy.

[555-04Q2]

I'm gonna burn a McDonalds poster tomorrow night. Bring your cameras and we can watch Ronald burn down a couple of KFC's in revenge.

[Firstgear]

I'm gonna burn a McDonalds poster tomorrow night. Bring your cameras and we can watch Ronald burn down a couple of KFC's in revenge.

OK - let me get this straight......

1) YOU burn down the McD's

2) Ronald takes revenge on KFC's

The only logical conclusion is that YOU must be Colonel Sanders. :eek:

[Roamy]

Don't burn Burger King or I will burn Jack

[Hondo]

Hand's off Jack, dude.

[gadjo_dilo]

I believe that as a result of the burning of a holy book there have been many deaths. Many American deaths also. For my first post, I feel it is strange that there are people like you still around. If someone burned your Old Testament or New would you feel anger?

I feel that is a legitamte question.

If someone would burn a holy book ( no matter what book ) as a ritual act like that idiot did, in a sort of of cocky gesture I'd take that as an offence. On normal conditions I'd have no reason to become physically violent. But honestly I don't know how I feel when I live in a contry in a state of war since the end of the 70's and the guy who burns the book lives in a country whose military forces stationates in my country.

[555-04Q2]

OK - let me get this straight......

1) YOU burn down the McD's

2) Ronald takes revenge on KFC's

The only logical conclusion is that YOU must be Colonel Sanders. :eek:

Damn, there goes my cover :p :

Free buckets for a year for you ;)

[Roamy]

so why don't the Euros go to the UN and prove there is no God. Then the UN can ban all religion and we can live happily ever after

[555-04Q2]

so why don't the Euros go to the UN and prove there is no God. Then the UN can ban all religion and we can live happily ever after

Well so far no one has been able to prove there is a God. When you point this out you are told, "Cause ya gotta have faith..."

[gadjo_dilo]

Well so far no one has been able to prove there is a God. When you point this out you are told, "Cause ya gotta have faith..."

And at the same time for the reason that so far no one has been able to prove there is no God. The simple lack of faith is not exactly a proof. :devil:

[Rollo]

I believe that as a result of the burning of a holy book there have been many deaths. Many American deaths also. For my first post, I feel it is strange that there are people like you still around. If someone burned your Old Testament or New would you feel anger?

I feel that is a legitamte question.

If someone was to burn my copy of a book I'd be annoyed because I'm down one book. If they want to burn their own copy of the Bible, then good luck to them, it's their money their choosing to put up in smoke.

If someone wants to make a display of burning something be it a flag or a copy of scripture to make a point, then it is within their right to freedom of speech and expression, but by the same token they're going to look pretty daft in doing it.

[gadjo_dilo]

Now that's funny...Most of the americans of this forum can't understand what's offensive in burning a holy book. Today I found an article about that Marylin Davenport who altered a pic of Obama. The comments from readers show they are very sensible about what most of europeans would considered a joke. http://www.nowpublic.com/world/barack-obama-chimp-photo-marilyn-davenport-emails-ape-pic-2778481.html
Now each with their sensiblilities....
Some with religion, other with racial issues....

[Roamy]

but does he have a birth certificate

Bush at least made it to Darwin's Theory

[Bob Riebe]

I haven't seen any proof there is a god yet (apart from some very pretty churches over here), so I don't really know how to prove against something I am yet to see proof of, if you get my drift.. lol :p : :)
There is no proof there is not, but then I would love to get in a poker game with anyone who thinks all that is happened by chance.
Bring on the suckers.

[Roamy]

yes Bob coincidence does not seem to add up to some of the incredible things that happen in life !