2011 MotoGP Jerez [Archive] - Motorsport Forums

NinjaMaster

1st April 2011, 11:59

MotoGP Free Practice 1 Results:

Pos. Num. Rider Nation Team Bike Km/h Time Gap 1st/Prev.
1 27 Casey STONER AUS Repsol Honda Team Honda 277.1 1'39.551
2 26 Dani PEDROSA SPA Repsol Honda Team Honda 270.6 1'39.579 0.028 / 0.028
3 46 Valentino ROSSI ITA Ducati Team Ducati 274.4 1'40.077 0.526 / 0.498
4 58 Marco SIMONCELLI ITA San Carlo Honda Gresini Honda 275.9 1'40.176 0.625 / 0.099
5 1 Jorge LORENZO SPA Yamaha Factory Racing Yamaha 268.3 1'40.420 0.869 / 0.244
6 4 Andrea DOVIZIOSO ITA Repsol Honda Team Honda 277.0 1'40.429 0.878 / 0.009
7 11 Ben SPIES USA Yamaha Factory Racing Yamaha 278.3 1'40.887 1.336 / 0.458
8 5 Colin EDWARDS USA Monster Yamaha Tech 3 Yamaha 273.1 1'41.063 1.512 / 0.176
9 14 Randy DE PUNIET FRA Pramac Racing Team Ducati 272.0 1'41.064 1.513 / 0.001
10 69 Nicky HAYDEN USA Ducati Team Ducati 271.8 1'41.233 1.682 / 0.169
11 17 Karel ABRAHAM CZE Cardion AB Motoracing Ducati 269.5 1'41.398 1.847 / 0.165
12 8 Hector BARBERA SPA Mapfre Aspar Team MotoGP Ducati 271.4 1'41.601 2.050 / 0.203
13 7 Hiroshi AOYAMA JPN San Carlo Honda Gresini Honda 271.6 1'41.816 2.265 / 0.215
14 35 Cal CRUTCHLOW GBR Monster Yamaha Tech 3 Yamaha 270.3 1'41.949 2.398 / 0.133
15 24 Toni ELIAS SPA LCR Honda MotoGP Honda 279.3 1'42.157 2.606 / 0.208
16 65 Loris CAPIROSSI ITA Pramac Racing Team Ducati 273.8 1'42.313 2.762 / 0.156
17 21 John HOPKINS USA Rizla Suzuki MotoGP Suzuki 275.2 1'42.538 2.987 / 0.225

The usual protagonists at the front. Rossi competitive but will have to keep improving because the guys behind him aren't that far. Abraham very impressive in 11th, hopefully that form continues showing his talent over just money seeing him in MotoGP.

NinjaMaster

1st April 2011, 12:07

Moto2 Free Practice 1 Results:

Pos. Num. Rider Nation Team Bike Km/h Time Gap 1st/Prev.
1 12 Thomas LUTHI SWI Interwetten Paddock Moto2 Suter 247.2 1'43.528
2 65 Stefan BRADL GER Viessmann Kiefer Racing Kalex 253.5 1'43.843 0.315 / 0.315
3 15 Alex DE ANGELIS RSM JIR Moto2 Motobi 246.1 1'44.199 0.671 / 0.356
4 3 Simone CORSI ITA Ioda Racing Project FTR 241.3 1'44.202 0.674 / 0.003
5 36 Mika KALLIO FIN Marc VDS Racing Team Suter 245.7 1'44.258 0.730 / 0.056
6 60 Julian SIMON SPA Mapfre Aspar Team Moto2 Suter 245.5 1'44.260 0.732 / 0.002
7 51 Michele PIRRO ITA Gresini Racing Moto2 Moriwaki 240.7 1'44.329 0.801 / 0.069
8 45 Scott REDDING GBR Marc VDS Racing Team Suter 243.7 1'44.469 0.941 / 0.140
9 16 Jules CLUZEL FRA Forward Racing Suter 246.7 1'44.531 1.003 / 0.062
10 77 Dominique AEGERTER SWI Technomag-CIP Suter 245.1 1'44.541 1.013 / 0.010
11 13 Anthony WEST AUS MZ Racing Team MZ-RE Honda 244.5 1'44.700 1.172 / 0.159
12 29 Andrea IANNONE ITA Speed Master Suter 245.5 1'44.705 1.177 / 0.005
13 40 Aleix ESPARGARO SPA Pons HP 40 Pons Kalex 246.2 1'44.716 1.188 / 0.011
14 21 Javier FORES SPA Mapfre Aspar Team Moto2 Suter 243.0 1'44.799 1.271 / 0.083
15 93 Marc MARQUEZ SPA Team CatalunyaCaixa Repsol Suter 246.4 1'44.828 1.300 / 0.029
16 71 Claudio CORTI ITA Italtrans Racing Team Suter 244.6 1'44.898 1.370 / 0.070
17 38 Bradley SMITH GBR Tech 3 Racing Tech 3 245.8 1'45.023 1.495 / 0.125
18 54 Kenan SOFUOGLU TUR Technomag-CIP Suter 248.5 1'45.079 1.551 / 0.056
19 88 Ricard CARDUS SPA QMMF Racing Team Moriwaki 245.7 1'45.086 1.558 / 0.007
20 76 Max NEUKIRCHNER GER MZ Racing Team MZ-RE Honda 245.6 1'45.160 1.632 / 0.074
21 9 Kenny NOYES USA Avintia-STX FTR 248.4 1'45.185 1.657 / 0.025
22 75 Mattia PASINI ITA Ioda Racing Project FTR 245.1 1'45.492 1.964 / 0.307
23 4 Randy KRUMMENACHER SWI GP Team Switzerland Kiefer Racing Kalex 247.9 1'45.523 1.995 / 0.031
24 25 Alex BALDOLINI ITA Forward Racing Suter 244.0 1'45.524 1.996 / 0.001
25 68 Yonny HERNANDEZ COL Blusens-STX FTR 245.5 1'45.577 2.049 / 0.053
26 34 Esteve RABAT SPA Blusens-STX FTR 247.4 1'45.676 2.148 / 0.099
27 72 Yuki TAKAHASHI JPN Gresini Racing Moto2 Moriwaki 244.5 1'45.820 2.292 / 0.144
28 14 Ratthapark WILAIROT THA Thai Honda Singha SAG FTR 245.6 1'45.853 2.325 / 0.033
29 49 Kev COGHLAN GBR Aeroport de Castello FTR 244.0 1'45.856 2.328 / 0.003
30 44 Pol ESPARGARO SPA HP Tuenti Speed Up FTR 247.1 1'45.946 2.418 / 0.090
31 19 Xavier SIMEON BEL Tech 3 B Tech 3 243.7 1'45.978 2.450 / 0.032
32 35 Raffaele DE ROSA ITA Desguaces La Torre G22 Moriwaki 246.9 1'46.036 2.508 / 0.058
33 53 Valentin DEBISE FRA Speed Up FTR 244.3 1'46.297 2.769 / 0.261
34 80 Axel PONS SPA Pons HP 40 Pons Kalex 248.1 1'46.346 2.818 / 0.049
35 63 Mike DI MEGLIO FRA Tech 3 Racing Tech 3 245.1 1'46.358 2.830 / 0.012
36 64 Santiago HERNANDEZ COL SAG Team FTR 245.1 1'46.497 2.969 / 0.139
37 39 Robertino PIETRI VEN Italtrans Racing Team Suter 243.1 1'47.129 3.601 / 0.632
38 97 Steven ODENDAAL RSA MS Racing Suter 243.7 1'48.884 5.356 / 1.755
39 95 Mashel AL NAIMI QAT QMMF Racing Team Moriwaki 241.8 1'49.011 5.483 / 0.127
99 Lukasz WARGALA POL Desguaces La Torre G22 Moriwaki 236.3 1'50.827 7.299 / 1.816

West 11th and Neukirchner 20th, hehe. Hope the new MZ frame is the business, it's got a bit boring all Suters, FTRs, Moriwakis and Kalexs. Come back Bimota!
Son of Helmut is continuing his good form and proving Qatar was no fluke and I'm still loving Luthi at the pointy end. I hope he takes the title this year.

CaptainRaiden

1st April 2011, 15:01

FP2 Results

1 26 Dani PEDROSA SPA Repsol Honda Team Honda 275.7 1'40.101
2 27 Casey STONER AUS Repsol Honda Team Honda 278.4 1'40.289 0.188 / 0.188
3 1 Jorge LORENZO SPA Yamaha Factory Racing Yamaha 270.0 1'40.623 0.522 / 0.334
4 58 Marco SIMONCELLI ITA San Carlo Honda Gresini Honda 278.3 1'40.701 0.600 / 0.078
5 46 Valentino ROSSI ITA Ducati Team Ducati 276.6 1'40.956 0.855 / 0.255
6 14 Randy DE PUNIET FRA Pramac Racing Team Ducati 267.7 1'40.982 0.881 / 0.026
7 11 Ben SPIES USA Yamaha Factory Racing Yamaha 279.1 1'41.053 0.952 / 0.071
8 69 Nicky HAYDEN USA Ducati Team Ducati 272.6 1'41.058 0.957 / 0.005
9 7 Hiroshi AOYAMA JPN San Carlo Honda Gresini Honda 275.2 1'41.292 1.191 / 0.234
10 17 Karel ABRAHAM CZE Cardion AB Motoracing Ducati 265.2 1'41.304 1.203 / 0.012
11 5 Colin EDWARDS USA Monster Yamaha Tech 3 Yamaha 273.3 1'41.337 1.236 / 0.033
12 4 Andrea DOVIZIOSO ITA Repsol Honda Team Honda 277.0 1'41.407 1.306 / 0.070
13 8 Hector BARBERA SPA Mapfre Aspar Team MotoGP Ducati 273.5 1'41.665 1.564 / 0.258
14 65 Loris CAPIROSSI ITA Pramac Racing Team Ducati 272.7 1'41.810 1.709 / 0.145
15 35 Cal CRUTCHLOW GBR Monster Yamaha Tech 3 Yamaha 272.4 1'41.854 1.753 / 0.044
16 21 John HOPKINS USA Rizla Suzuki MotoGP Suzuki 275.5 1'42.305 2.204 / 0.451
17 24 Toni ELIAS SPA LCR Honda MotoGP Honda 274.2 1'42.690 2.589 / 0.385

It seems the Ducati goes a bit better here than in Qatar. Third for Rossi in first practice is a surprise. Still, I fully expect this race to also go down between Stoner, Pedrosa and Lorenzo. What is Dovizioso doing on the same bike that Stoner and Pedrosa are kicking ass in? He keeps this up and Simoncelli and him will swap bikes in 2012.

NinjaMaster

2nd April 2011, 09:34

What is Dovizioso doing on the same bike that Stoner and Pedrosa are kicking ass in? He keeps this up and Simoncelli and him will swap bikes in 2012.

There's a lot of talk that they are fighting for the one seat next year. I think that's probably why Dovi was so forceful in his ride at Qatar and I think he'll be more agressive this year. But he needs to find some pace because aggressive for 10th isn't going to retain his ride!

125 have run their third practice session and Cortese has led Terol for the last two:

Pos No. Rider Bike Time Diff Diff Previous
1 11 Sandro CORTESE APRILIA 1'47.066
2 18 Nicolas TEROL APRILIA 1'47.620 0.554 0.554
3 44 Miguel OLIVEIRA APRILIA 1'48.347 1.281 0.727
4 55 Hector FAUBEL APRILIA 1'48.532 1.466 0.185
5 94 Jonas FOLGER APRILIA 1'48.659 1.593 0.127
6 25 Maverick VIÑALES APRILIA 1'48.729 1.663 0.070
7 5 Johann ZARCO DERBI 1'48.792 1.726 0.063
8 7 Efren VAZQUEZ DERBI 1'48.974 1.908 0.182
9 26 Adrian MARTIN APRILIA 1'49.252 2.186 0.278
10 23 Alberto MONCAYO APRILIA 1'49.274 2.208 0.022
11 96 Louis ROSSI APRILIA 1'49.523 2.457 0.249
12 52 Danny KENT APRILIA 1'49.674 2.608 0.151
13 33 Sergio GADEA APRILIA 1'49.714 2.648 0.040
14 39 Luis SALOM APRILIA 1'49.747 2.681 0.033
15 15 Simone GROTZKYJ APRILIA 1'49.765 2.699 0.018
16 17 Taylor MACKENZIE APRILIA 1'49.918 2.852 0.153
17 53 Jasper IWEMA APRILIA 1'50.242 3.176 0.324
18 77 Marcel SCHROTTER MAHINDRA 1'50.278 3.212 0.036
19 84 Jakub KORNFEIL APRILIA 1'50.420 3.354 0.142
20 31 Niklas AJO APRILIA 1'50.495 3.429 0.075
21 99 Danny WEBB MAHINDRA 1'50.699 3.633 0.204
22 28 Josep RODRIGUEZ APRILIA 1'51.123 4.057 0.424
23 19 Alessandro TONUCCI APRILIA 1'51.169 4.103 0.046
24 63 Zulfahmi KHAIRUDDIN DERBI 1'51.284 4.218 0.115
25 21 Harry STAFFORD APRILIA 1'51.556 4.490 0.272
26 3 Luigi MORCIANO APRILIA 1'51.754 4.688 0.198
27 30 Giulian PEDONE APRILIA 1'51.760 4.694 0.006
28 76 Hiroki ONO KTM 1'51.926 4.860 0.166
29 36 Joan PERELLO APRILIA 1'52.005 4.939 0.079
30 34 Daniel RUIZ HONDA 1'52.811 5.745 0.806
31 12 Daniel KARTHEININGER KTM 1'52.838 5.772 0.027
32 43 Francesco MAURIELLO APRILIA 1'53.840 6.774 1.002
33 86 Kevin HANUS HONDA 1'54.073 7.007 0.233
Not qualified (Out 107%) 1'54.560
69 Sarath KUMAR APRILIA 1'55.652 8.586 1.579

Finally, Terol might have some competition! Oh, and Maverick VIÑALES is the coolest name in motorcycle racing. :up:

NinjaMaster

2nd April 2011, 09:37

Moto2 Free Practice 2 Results:

Pos No. Rider Bike Time Diff Diff Previous
1 72 Yuki TAKAHASHI MORIWAKI 1'44.044
2 93 Marc MARQUEZ SUTER 1'44.139 0.095 0.095
3 60 Julian SIMON SUTER 1'44.153 0.109 0.014
4 12 Thomas LUTHI SUTER 1'44.204 0.160 0.051
5 40 Aleix ESPARGARO KALEX 1'44.248 0.204 0.044
6 29 Andrea IANNONE SUTER 1'44.263 0.219 0.015
7 71 Claudio CORTI SUTER 1'44.284 0.240 0.021
8 45 Scott REDDING SUTER 1'44.316 0.272 0.032
9 65 Stefan BRADL KALEX 1'44.449 0.405 0.133
10 15 Alex DE ANGELIS MOTOBI 1'44.490 0.446 0.041
11 3 Simone CORSI FTR 1'44.642 0.598 0.152
12 80 Axel PONS KALEX 1'44.674 0.630 0.032
13 36 Mika KALLIO SUTER 1'44.674 0.630 0.000
14 54 Kenan SOFUOGLU SUTER 1'44.697 0.653 0.023
15 14 Ratthapark WILAIROT FTR 1'44.733 0.689 0.036
16 51 Michele PIRRO MORIWAKI 1'44.749 0.705 0.016
17 16 Jules CLUZEL SUTER 1'44.807 0.763 0.058
18 68 Yonny HERNANDEZ FTR 1'44.842 0.798 0.035
19 77 Dominique AEGERTER SUTER 1'44.872 0.828 0.030
20 34 Esteve RABAT FTR 1'44.888 0.844 0.016
21 49 Kev COGHLAN FTR 1'45.305 1.261 0.417
22 4 Randy KRUMMENACHER KALEX 1'45.326 1.282 0.021
23 63 Mike DI MEGLIO TECH 3 1'45.344 1.300 0.018
24 21 Javier FORES SUTER 1'45.363 1.319 0.019
25 13 Anthony WEST MZ 1'45.405 1.361 0.042
26 44 Pol ESPARGARO FTR 1'45.447 1.403 0.042
27 75 Mattia PASINI FTR 1'45.605 1.561 0.158
28 38 Bradley SMITH TECH 3 1'45.631 1.587 0.026
29 35 Raffaele DE ROSA MORIWAKI 1'45.681 1.637 0.050
30 9 Kenny NOYES FTR 1'45.784 1.740 0.103
31 88 Ricard CARDUS MORIWAKI 1'45.787 1.743 0.003
32 25 Alex BALDOLINI SUTER 1'45.869 1.825 0.082
33 76 Max NEUKIRCHNER MZ 1'46.135 2.091 0.266
34 64 Santiago HERNANDEZ FTR 1'46.243 2.199 0.108
35 97 Steven ODENDAAL SUTER 1'46.276 2.232 0.033
36 19 Xavier SIMEON TECH 3 1'46.338 2.294 0.062
37 39 Robertino PIETRI SUTER 1'46.359 2.315 0.021
38 53 Valentin DEBISE FTR 1'46.549 2.505 0.190
39 95 Mashel AL NAIMI MORIWAKI 1'48.236 4.192 1.687
40 99 Lukasz WARGALA MORIWAKI 1'50.898 6.854 2.662

The top 20 are covered by less than 9 tenths of a second! Just astounding! :o

Corny

2nd April 2011, 15:27

Aii Rossi wasn't good.. Just 2 tenths in front of Hopkins, who's ridden few KM's since he gone away of this championship. They'll have to work

Honda's are good.. Though I think Lorenzo will take it

Allyc85

2nd April 2011, 18:08

Great to see Cal is in the top 9, horrible qualifying for the factory Ducati's though!

Ranger

3rd April 2011, 13:23

They'll talk about that Stoner-Rossi crash for weeks, years even!

ShiftingGears

3rd April 2011, 13:37

Pretty obvious who the marshalls favourite rider was there. Not impressed.

markabilly

3rd April 2011, 14:14

They'll talk about that Stoner-Rossi crash for weeks, years even!

well at least until tommorrow.................

Rossi goes to apologize.
Stoner's response: "your ambition outweighs your talent......."

what he should have said, "gee, bro could you have spared one of those ten marshalls......"

Clearly getting Rossi out from underneath Stoner's bike was a priority......but after that....... :rolleyes:

Allyc85

3rd April 2011, 16:42

I know the Ducati is crap right now, but did Rossi really need to take Stoners bike off of him? ;)

Great race, though I couldnt help but laugh at the Eurosport Commentators putting the mockers on Simoncelli and Edwards! Was gutted to see Crutchlow go down, but considering how many other crashed its not so bad and up until that point the performance was massively encouraging!

Corny

3rd April 2011, 17:07

Rossi finds Stoner in the pits and they shake hands...

Stoner (smiling): “How's your shoulder? Is it okay?”

Rossi: “I'm very sorry.”

Stoner: “Okay. You have some problem with your shoulder?”

Rossi: “I make a mistake”

Stoner: “Yeah. Obviously your ambition outweighed your talent.”

Rossi: “Eh?”

Stoner: “Ambition is more than the talent.”

Rossi: “I'm very sorry.”

Stoner: “No problem.”

The conversation between them after the race.. Can't believe Stoner's reaction again. He makes himself so unpopulair with these things

gloomyDAY

3rd April 2011, 17:49

The conversation between them after the race.. Can't believe Stoner's reaction again. He makes himself so unpopulair with these thingsStoner should have given Rossi an uppercut to the jaw. If you wreck someone, don't expect a warm reception.

N4D13

3rd April 2011, 18:44

I believe that Rossi gave Stoner the middle finger during the race -that's what I read in El País anyway-, so I'd hardly have expected Stoner to put a happy face about it.

Allyc85

3rd April 2011, 20:22

The conversation between them after the race.. Can't believe Stoner's reaction again. He makes himself so unpopulair with these things

Agreed, Stoner does make himself look like a complete twat when things go worng. Rossi cocked up, but admitted fault like any decent person would and Casey goes on to say that arguably one of the greatest riders of all time is lacking talent. Almost reminds me of when Casey was crying over their epic battle at Laguna Seca a couple years back!

Is there any video of the conversation?

edit: yes there is

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tx-D-E7sn7U

jonny hurlock

3rd April 2011, 23:03

He would be only in the top 10 if there are only 10 riders at the finish.

he did finished in the top 10, could have finished 9th at the end, there were 12 riders at the finish lol

patnicholls

3rd April 2011, 23:35

The Phantom

4th April 2011, 06:26

What a hilarious race - not often that MotoGP give more thrills and spills than Moto2, which itself was a cracker. How about Kallio getting rear-ended, somehow saving what looked unsaveable, then giving a long hard look back over his shoulder - all during a typically packed mad scramble through a corner! hehehe

Rossi screwed up in a very big way. The marshalls were idiots. Stoner's anger is completely justifiable and now just watch him rip on that Honda, Rossi has unleashed the dragon with this one. I don't think Stoner will allow Rossi to finish ahead of him for the rest of the season & Lorenzo won't get a look in for a few races either.

CaptainRaiden

4th April 2011, 08:01

Disastrous MotoGP race, and the most cautious of the frontrunners won in the end. It was an amazing race until the crash on lap 7. Stupid move by Rossi, he went in too hot and too ambitious and ruined not only his race, but also Stoner's, who was at no fault. And he duly went to apologize to Stoner to the Honda garage, who as usual was being his bitchy best. I still don't understand what was the point of saying "Your ambition outweighs your talent" to Valentino Rossi. Really, Stoner? You say that to a 7 time champion, and more importantly a guy who admits his mistake, walks over to your garage to apologize. Cheap shot from Stoner.

Marc Marquez actually showed way much more maturity and integrity when Jules Cluzel came to apologize after crashing into him, a similar incident and at the same corner. He took it well and shook hands with Cluzel without taking cheap shots.

Stoner needs to learn something called sportsmanship. Racing incidents happen, it was clearly not intentional, and when someone realizes their mistake and comes to apologize, you don't be a little biatch about it all. Answer on the track in the next race, not by taking stupid cheap shots.

CaptainRaiden

4th April 2011, 08:14

I'm pretty sure Casey's line was a jokey reference to something Valentino said in his (outspoken) pre-season discussion of Casey and Jorge - he certainly had a big smile when Valentino came into the pits to apologise and took it in good spirits. I *think* - could be wrong - that Vale had used that in reference to Casey's front-end crashes in the last few years, and so was getting him back a little for that (although obviously not too much, given that the first time Vale had the same problem Casey comes out of it worst!).

Crazy races. If he hadn't fallen off, Karel Abraham could've had a podium, ditto Cal, ditto MANY others! A ton of great Brit performances too.

I read what Rossi said about Casey and Jorge, and no, there was nothing about "ambition outweighing talent". From what I remember, Rossi talked about how Casey and Lorenzo hate him, and Stoner is prone to making mistakes, and Jorge is not exciting as a rider etc. As for those two hating him, it's clear, because both Lorenzo and Casey have shown to act like little whiners after races. Stoner refusing Rossi's handshake after Laguna Seca 2008, Lorenzo acting like a prude when Rossi went to congratulate him last year at Malaysia and Valencia, not acknowledging Rossi congratulating him, and now Casey being his unsportsman-like best when Rossi clearly raised his hand, accepted his mistake, and went to apologize to Stoner and his team. Classless.

There is a certain decency and class you have to show before you're considered a great champion, and Stoner certainly hasn't shown it. Agreed, Rossi's move was stupid and way too ambitious, but worse racing incidents have happened, and at worse times of the season and riders have been able to shake it off without trying to be ironic and saying moronic things. Having said that, Rossi himself hasn't been an angel but his way of retaliating is to mess with the riders on the track.

CaptainRaiden

4th April 2011, 08:17

I believe that Rossi gave Stoner the middle finger during the race -that's what I read in El País anyway-, so I'd hardly have expected Stoner to put a happy face about it.

How can that be? Never saw it. The only one time Rossi was ahead of Stoner was at the first corner where his bike gave way, and then Rossi got up and rejoined and Stoner didn't. This everybody saw, where was the finger? I think that paper or website is printing blatant lies.

CNR

4th April 2011, 10:32

this is what he should have said
your ambition to win on a Ducati outweigh your talent to ride that pice of sh*t

MrJan

4th April 2011, 12:44

How can that be? Never saw it. The only one time Rossi was ahead of Stoner was at the first corner where his bike gave way, and then Rossi got up and rejoined and Stoner didn't. This everybody saw, where was the finger? I think that paper or website is printing blatant lies.

From what I read somewhere (can't remember where) Stoner was waving at Rossi when he passed after the accident, which is when Rossi gave him the finger.

Crazy race, but you could see it coming with a lot of them. Spies in particular was far too quick, in as much as he didn't need to push that much to gap Dani. Gutted for Marco though, would have loved to have seen him come home on the top step.

I also wouldn't say that Casey was classless, IMO you're well over the line with that remark because Stoner is one of the gents in MotoGP. I far prefer Rossi as a character and a rider, but when it comes to manners the bloke can be a cock.

NinjaMaster

4th April 2011, 12:58

Wowee, what a sensational race! There really was action at every corner, even with such a tiny field.

Lorenzo rode a particularly masterful race. Paced himself and kept out of trouble. Pedrosa did the same, slow to start and did a good job of getting strong points. Was happy to see Hayden rewarded with a podium, even if it was somewhat fortunate. I was really stoked to see Colin Edwards set for his first podium in a while only for his bike to stop. Very disappointing. Was very happy with Hiroshi though, he's the consumate professional and he so nearly snuck a podium finish. All of Spies, Crutchlow and Abraham rode very well and it was disappointing that small mistakes caught them out.
And then of course there was 'that' incident. It was clearly all Rossi's fault and Stoner was an innocent bystander but it was just an (significant) error of judgement, no malice in it that I could see. As Stoner described it, a racing incident. I guess the thing that annoyed me most was that it was only about 7 weeks ago that Rossi criticised Stoners cunning and racecraft, then, in the second race of the year, he rode like a complete rookie trying to win the race on the 8th lap of a 27 lap race. Need to be calmer than that Vale. Also, about the 'apology', how serious was Casey supposed to take it when Valentino didn't even have the courtesy to take his helmet off and speak to him face-to-face? And his "ambition greater than your talent" quip is very much an Australianism, much in the vein of "eyes too big for your stomach" and it was for nothing more than this particular incident.

I only got to see the final handful of laps of the Moto2 race after wasting my time seeing my footy team get flogged. Anyway, Iannone really seemed to be riding beautifully smoothly and Luthi is continuing to impress after his surprising strength last season. I'm just not sure if Tomas has that extra edge to take him to the title. And I read somewhere here that it was Mika Kallio who had that amazing save - that was just miraculous! And then he eyeballed the guy behind him as they went around the corner! Exciting stuff!

AndyRAC

4th April 2011, 12:59

Rossi is obviously a great, the GOAT – however, he does exert an unhealthy imfluence on MotoGP as a whole. He is basically the sports ‘gravy train’. Unfortunately, his fans and followers won’t accept he does anything wrong. It was a way over optimistic move. Imagine if it had been somebody else taking Rossi out of the race.....I would imagine there would have been a ride through penalty.

sarahelizabeth

4th April 2011, 13:25

Imagine if it had been somebody else taking Rossi out of the race.....I would imagine there would have been a ride through penalty.

Yup. The Rossi-worship is incredibly frustrating. The move was incredibly risky, and didn't turn out well. It's a shame Stoner was the one who suffered from it, really.

NinjaMaster

4th April 2011, 13:25

Ooh, also wanted to give props to Alex DeAnglis for his sterling ride after copping a ride through penalty, Bradley Smith also for his strong ride and Ant West for improving about 20 positions - only to get beaten by his pesky teammate!

suzukimad07

4th April 2011, 13:32

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8shZBeZnOw

MrJan

4th April 2011, 14:30

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8shZBeZnOw

Then we'd have all laughed at him like we laugh at Max.

Re Rossi worship. It's kinda hard not to rave about the guy, his MotoGP career is absolutely sensational and he's done it up against some pretty tough opponents. I've always liked the story of the 'curse' he put on Gibernau, even if the reasons that the guy didn't win another race were completely unrelated (like hitting a damp track at Estoril when he was miles out in front).

The move was risky but it wasn't reckless, he was quicker and there was a gap and, to quote Ayrton Senna, "if you no longer go for the gap, you're no longer a racing driver". Given the same situation I'd expect, nay want, Stoner to make the same move.

CaptainRaiden

4th April 2011, 17:51

Then we'd have all laughed at him like we laugh at Max.

Re Rossi worship. It's kinda hard not to rave about the guy, his MotoGP career is absolutely sensational and he's done it up against some pretty tough opponents. I've always liked the story of the 'curse' he put on Gibernau, even if the reasons that the guy didn't win another race were completely unrelated (like hitting a damp track at Estoril when he was miles out in front).

The move was risky but it wasn't reckless, he was quicker and there was a gap and, to quote Ayrton Senna, "if you no longer go for the gap, you're no longer a racing driver". Given the same situation I'd expect, nay want, Stoner to make the same move.

I think the people that find Rossi worship frustrating are quite obviously Stoner or Lorenzo fans, and probably can't stand him for what he did to Stoner in 2008 or to Lorenzo in 2009. Hey, I'll hate him too if he beat my favorite rider and continues to have tussles with them.

Love him or hate him, can't deny that he is the greatest motorcycle racer ever, whether by statistics or racecraft, or simply going by how many fans love him.

sarahelizabeth

4th April 2011, 19:33

I think the people that find Rossi worship frustrating are quite obviously Stoner or Lorenzo fans, and probably can't stand him for what he did to Stoner in 2008 or to Lorenzo in 2009. Hey, I'll hate him too if he beat my favorite rider and continues to have tussles with them.

I don't think that's true. Thinking that someone can do no wrong is irritating, whether or not you adore the person. Rossi is human. He's not perfect. Nobody is. Obviously he's a great racer, I'm not denying that, but the worship can get a little extreme.

CaptainRaiden

4th April 2011, 19:36

Casey is not letting this go, is he? - http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2011/stoner+and+rossi+after+clashing+in+jerez

”For sure, I would prefer if Valentino did it away from the cameras and would say something to me quietly without always having to have proof,” commented Stoner. ”For sure Valentino doesn’t do this for himself, he just wants to show to everybody that he has apologised. Yes it’s a nice gesture, it’s very good, but it still doesn’t change the result today, so we’ll see what happens in the next races.”

Now, he wants Rossi to apologize, but also wants him to do it his way. All Rossi did was go straight to the Repsol Honda garage to apologize as soon as the race ended. What more does Stoner want? As if mocking his shoulder and taking a cheap shot wasn't enough, now it should have been done his way. :rolleyes: Rossi came to your garage to apologize to you, didn't he? Casey needs to man-up. These prima donna reactions show that he's emotionally still not able to put 2008 behind him.

Anyway, all in all it spices things up really nice. If the Ducati reaches the level of the Hondas and the Yamahas, we could have an all out gob-smacking war at the front. Who wants goody-huggy rivals in any sport anyway. Roll on Estoril! :p

CaptainRaiden

4th April 2011, 19:41

I don't think that's true. Thinking that someone can do no wrong is irritating, whether or not you adore the person. Rossi is human. He's not perfect. Nobody is. Obviously he's a great racer, I'm not denying that, but the worship can get a little extreme.

Nobody is worshipping him, and if you read my earlier post, I never said that Rossi didn't do anything wrong. Here, let me quote myself. I said "It was an amazing race until the crash on lap 7. Stupid move by Rossi, he went in too hot and too ambitious and ruined not only his race, but also Stoner's, who was at no fault." So, I clearly acknowledged that it was Rossi's stupidity, and his alone, that robbed us all of what could have been a great race. He could have been patient and overtaken Stoner next lap, but of course he didn't have his head screwed on right, too eager.

My bone is with what happened later. Rossi went to Stoner to apologize. Stoner could have been magnanimous and more appreciative of the gesture, but was a bit too ironic and bitchy for my taste. That's all.

sarahelizabeth

4th April 2011, 20:36

Nobody is worshipping him, and if you read my earlier post, I never said that Rossi didn't do anything wrong. Here, let me quote myself. I said "It was an amazing race until the crash on lap 7. Stupid move by Rossi, he went in too hot and too ambitious and ruined not only his race, but also Stoner's, who was at no fault." So, I clearly acknowledged that it was Rossi's stupidity, and his alone, that robbed us all of what could have been a great race. He could have been patient and overtaken Stoner next lap, but of course he didn't have his head screwed on right, too eager.

My bone is with what happened later. Rossi went to Stoner to apologize. Stoner could have been magnanimous and more appreciative of the gesture, but was a bit too ironic and bitchy for my taste. That's all.

I wasn't talking about you! I was referring to comments I've heard in other places (I should have clarified - I'm sorry if it came across as a personal attack). I do agree that Stoner should have accepted the apology with good grace, though. This hoo-hah about him not apologising properly is rather melodramatic, considering Rossi headed over to apologise right after the race.

Does make for an exciting competition, though, I must admit. :P

CaptainRaiden

4th April 2011, 20:52

I wasn't talking about you! I was referring to comments I've heard in other places (I should have clarified - I'm sorry if it came across as a personal attack). I do agree that Stoner should have accepted the apology with good grace, though. This hoo-hah about him not apologising properly is rather melodramatic, considering Rossi headed over to apologise right after the race.

Oops, my bad then. As a Rossi fan, I thought your post was directed towards me. :D

Does make for an exciting competition, though, I must admit. :P

I'm just salivating at the thought of the last 3 races coming down to a last lunge between Rossi, Lorenzo and Stoner, and Pedrosa as a dark horse with this bad blood brewing a bit more and reaching fever pitch. Some elbowing and fingers in the air also welcome. :p

Sadly the Ducati in dry is not at a top level right now, fingers crossed though.

patnicholls

5th April 2011, 00:24

And then of course there was 'that' incident. It was clearly all Rossi's fault and Stoner was an innocent bystander but it was just an (significant) error of judgement, no malice in it that I could see. As Stoner described it, a racing incident. I guess the thing that annoyed me most was that it was only about 7 weeks ago that Rossi criticised Stoners cunning and racecraft, then, in the second race of the year, he rode like a complete rookie trying to win the race on the 8th lap of a 27 lap race. Need to be calmer than that Vale. Also, about the 'apology', how serious was Casey supposed to take it when Valentino didn't even have the courtesy to take his helmet off and speak to him face-to-face? And his "ambition greater than your talent" quip is very much an Australianism, much in the vein of "eyes too big for your stomach" and it was for nothing more than this particular incident.

Yep, pretty much my thoughts on the incident - clearly no malice and just a racing incident in the conditions and I have no problem with Casey's reaction. Asking Valentino about his shoulder was racer's opportunism, trying to get a key bit of info about a rival at a crucial time while Valentino's feeling guilty about the crash - I'd have done the same. In the karting championship I run in, one of my former rivals (my team got promoted this year) described himself as 'always the first one to come and apologise' after crashing into someone - to which the jokey response is 'well, you're always the first one to crash into us to start with'...(said with a large grin)

Mika Kallio's save is here (it was Yonny Hernandez behind):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b__yZ7-zYoI

Not as good as this one from 2009 though from Raffaele de Rosa (any excuse!):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lz16KvYYQw4

The Phantom

5th April 2011, 01:31

Rossi is not the lovable jokester that his public persona would suggest - many of his rivals have alluded to him being a bit of a ******* on and off the track, and if you take the rose-tinted spectacles off and have a good look at some of the things he has done over the years it is hard to disagree. Unless you are absolutely parochial about him, of course, and wish you were Uccio helping him out of his leathers after each race :D

(and no that's not aimed at you Seb! :) )

He is also prone to making at least one or two absolutely stupid moves per season, but usually the only person he affects is himself. In this case the crash is far more serious than the one affecting Marc Marquez, as Stoner is arguably the prime title contendor.

Let's say Kenny Roberts had smacked Barry Sheen off his bike in the same circumstances - what do you reckon Sheen would have said to Roberts? I don't blame Stoner one little bit for shoving Rossi's pathetic apology back in his face, and speaking of answering on the track, Stoner will do just that. And Rossi knows it which is why he did what he did at Laguna. It's easy to race dirty against a rider who races as cleanly as Stoner.

Thanks for the links Pat, Kallio really did well to save that - didn't even lose a place!

larantuka

5th April 2011, 04:30

Competition will always involve tensions unavoidably, on and off the track, because everyone needs to win. Everyone just needs to manage and keep the tensions clean, and make sure that the race is ruled fair and square. There should be any further investigation following to every incident and those who are to blame as a result of such investigation deserve sanctions, like penalty or whatever. No way riders want incidents to happen, but if they have style and make some moving that put others on risk, still needs sanction.

Rossi might think that he was close enough and possible and hence was free to overtake Stoner. Although in that incident Stroner was the one who was disadvantaged by his move. We might understand it better if they were already in the battle four couple corners before the incident. Marshals should have helped both of them, not doing something in favor of one of them. The most important thing, how to prevent this things happen again. But note down, too much rules and easily imposing penalty to riders may cause riders ride overly careful and the race is not attractive. Just opinions.

The Phantom

5th April 2011, 05:44

But note down, too much rules and easily imposing penalty to riders may cause riders ride overly careful and the race is not attractive. Just opinions.

Very good point. Over-regulation could stifle the riders wishes to be able to race as hard as they want/need to.

5th April 2011, 07:29

Wow this race is going to be very exciting. I m thrilled

MrJan

5th April 2011, 08:53

Mika Kallio's save is here (it was Yonny Hernandez behind):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b__yZ7-zYoI

Not as good as this one from 2009 though from Raffaele de Rosa (any excuse!):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lz16KvYYQw4

I've always liked this one (best clip I could find). IIRC Nicky did something similar over the weekend.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3A1qvHihJ40

NinjaMaster

5th April 2011, 10:28

CaptainRaiden

5th April 2011, 11:25

He is also prone to making at least one or two absolutely stupid moves per season, but usually the only person he affects is himself. In this case the crash is far more serious than the one affecting Marc Marquez, as Stoner is arguably the prime title contendor.

Not yet he's not. It's only the second race of the season. You can't predict what will happen over the course of the season. Same way you can't predict if Marquez will come back stronger later in the year and lose the championship by a couple of points. So yeah, both crashes were stupid, and at this point have equal importance. The only difference is one guy was magnanimous about it, and other was a little princess.

I don't blame Stoner one little bit for shoving Rossi's pathetic apology back in his face.

So, if someone comes to apologize to you for an honest mistake, you would mock them...

and speaking of answering on the track, Stoner will do just that.

Sure he would with the best bike on the grid.

markabilly

5th April 2011, 11:27

Let's say Kenny Roberts had smacked Barry Sheen off his bike in the same circumstances - what do you reckon Sheen would have said to Roberts? place!

or Sheen smacked Roberts.....My guess is that nothing would have been said in public by either of them, but if anything were exchanged, most likey it would have been privately and it probably would have been blows rather than words

I think Rossi was doing a grandstand for benefit of himself in the eye of the public, and not because of anything else.

I think Stoner saw through it, but failed to respond in a manner that might have made Stoner look better.

Ranger

5th April 2011, 12:05

or Sheen smacked Roberts.....My guess is that nothing would have been said in public by either of them, but if anything were exchanged, most likey it would have been privately and it probably would have been blows rather than words

I think Rossi was doing a grandstand for benefit of himself in the eye of the public, and not because of anything else.

I think Stoner saw through it, but failed to respond in a manner that might have made Stoner look better.

That I agree with.

A genuine apology is not intentionally in front of a tv audience of millions.

Rossi, much like Graham Hill is credited to be, is a master of the media.

CaptainRaiden

5th April 2011, 12:25

Also, about the 'apology', how serious was Casey supposed to take it when Valentino didn't even have the courtesy to take his helmet off and speak to him face-to-face?

A genuine apology is not intentionally in front of a tv audience of millions.

Casey Stoner: ”For sure, I would prefer if Valentino did it away from the cameras and would say something to me quietly without always having to have proof,”

Erm, am I missing something or is it some Australian thing? Valentino did apologize, right? So now, he shouldn't have apologized as soon as he got off the bike, but waited for all the media to go and say sorry to Stoner in "private". So, saying sorry in front of the cameras is not as "effective" as in private? :confused:

Besides, I don't think Rossi was even aware a camera was following him. He just got off his bike, with his helmet and leathers on, and went straight off to the HRC garage. What else was he supposed to do? Wait until Stoner caught the next flight out of Spain or apologize to him in Portugal, in private? :confused:

All this is quite hilarious. So, he should apologize, BUT he should do so on Stoner's terms, taken his helmet off, VERY important, because any other way can be interpreted as being not "genuine" or "heartfelt" or "truthful" and simply playing it to the camera. So, Vale is in deep mud if he apologizes ASAP or waits for the next race, where Princess Stoner would have accused him of not apologizing at all. :laugh:

Ranger

5th April 2011, 13:02

X:
You are pissed off when someones actions adversely affect you. They then make a small apology to you in front of everyone, where you can't discuss the matter in private. Would you be satisfied with that?

I imagine that is the context of Stoner's comments. But I'm only guessing. Things get heated as they are fighting for a championship.

Having said that, is Marco Simoncelli also a 'whinger' and a 'princess'?

Interestingly, Marco Simoncelli made similar complaints about the marshals after crashing out of the lead, also at turn one, on lap 12.

"The most frustrating thing about today though was that I got no help at all from the marshals, unlike other riders today," said Simoncelli. "The bike was okay and if I could have had some help I am sure I could have still had a good race."

San Carlo Honda Gresini team manager Fausto Gresini added: "The thing I am most annoyed about is the way [Marco] didn't get any help from the marshals, which was given to others! I don't want to get involved in controversy but I think there should be a criteria of equality for all riders."

http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/168056/1/stoner_blasts_marshals_after_rossi_collision.html

MrJan

5th April 2011, 13:06

Marco's bike was f***ed! With the wheel pointing forward the throttle was bent back to beside the tank.

markabilly

5th April 2011, 13:47

Rossi was smart. Kept his helmet on in case Stoner reacted to the grandstand play by deleivering a punch
Learned his lesson when he had a little ruskus with Max Biaggi right behind the podium where a "mosquito" left a mark on Rossi's face some years back.

Rossi always knows where the camera is. And puts on a pretty good show.

all the more reason it was a showboat stunt.

Shame is that Soner could not come up with a better response.

NinjaMaster

5th April 2011, 14:28

So, saying sorry in front of the cameras is not as "effective" as in private? :confused:

Bingo. Rossi has spent the last 6 months criticising Stoner and Lorenzo in the media. Why would Casey not believe that Rossi was using the cameras to save his own personal image. In private, Rossi's only intention is the apology, rather than always having to save his public face or "have proof" as Stoner said.

Besides, I don't think Rossi was even aware a camera was following him. He just got off his bike, with his helmet and leathers on, and went straight off to the HRC garage.

Don't be misleading. Rossi pulled up in the Ducati pits first and had to walk passed the media to get to the Repsol pits. He knew exactly who was around him.

taken his helmet off, VERY important, because any other way can be interpreted as being not "genuine" or "heartfelt" or "truthful" and simply playing it to the camera.

From Foxsports - "Like apologising to your mother with your hoody and your sunglasses on, no-one makes a genuine apology with their helmet on."
Sums it up really.

NinjaMaster

5th April 2011, 14:31

Rossi was smart. Kept his helmet on in case Stoner reacted to the grandstand play by deleivering a punch
Learned his lesson when he had a little ruskus with Max Biaggi right behind the podium where a "mosquito" left a mark on Rossi's face some years back.

Actually, Biaggi was bitten by the mosquito, Rossi tried to swat it for him!

markabilly

5th April 2011, 14:37

Yeah I think you are right. All I remember is the "mosquito" comment.

Old rule in american football "fights". As long as you keep your helmet on, you will not get hurt by someone trying to punch you in the head. Or he who takes helmet off first, loses.

as you point out, not taking off the helmet shows a lack of a genuine apology. It also shows to me that Rossi was trying to be provocative without appearing provocative, but just in case of a punch that he probably was hoping to get, he did not want any mosquito bite marks on his face.......

CaptainRaiden

5th April 2011, 17:07

X:
You are pissed off when someones actions adversely affect you. They then make a small apology to you in front of everyone, where you can't discuss the matter in private. Would you be satisfied with that?

Yes! An apology is an apology, whether made in front of the whole world or in private. The guy has to be magnanimous enough to accept it regardless of the bad blood between them.

Having said that, is Marco Simoncelli also a 'whinger' and a 'princess'?

I never said Stoner was a princess because of the marshall incident, you can go back and read this in any of my posts. That was obviously wrong, how the marshalls helped Rossi up and then pushed the bike. They love him in Spain, even to the extent where they supported him instead of Gibernau, Jorge Lorenzo and Pedrosa whenever they had close battles. They should have been unbiased and helped Stoner in the same way.

I called Stoner a princess because of his reactions after the apology, and also his interview later, where he wants a more "private" apology. Besides, he has a history of throwing hissy fits whenever things get a little rough:

lboSRZT2XxI

Going by this, Haga and Bayliss should be looking for each other's blood, seeing how many times they elbowed each other during a race. Yet, they have shown that they are better sportsmen and have been able to put countless battles behind them. Senna in F1 was also accused of being rough and not caring about the danger he puts others in. But this is how competitive racing can be, and this is what Lorenzo and Stoner are failing to understand.

CaptainRaiden

5th April 2011, 17:15

Bingo. Rossi has spent the last 6 months criticising Stoner and Lorenzo in the media. Why would Casey not believe that Rossi was using the cameras to save his own personal image. In private, Rossi's only intention is the apology, rather than always having to save his public face or "have proof" as Stoner said.

Don't be misleading. Rossi pulled up in the Ducati pits first and had to walk passed the media to get to the Repsol pits. He knew exactly who was around him.

From Foxsports - "Like apologising to your mother with your hoody and your sunglasses on, no-one makes a genuine apology with their helmet on."
Sums it up really.

These are all little details, which at the end of the day don't matter. An apology is an apology. Rossi put up his hand and apologized to Stoner twice, WHILE Stoner was taking cheap shots, and then he put his hands together and apologized to the Honda crew as well. All this while, Stoner was being ironic. It doesn't mean squat whether it was on camera or he didn't take off his helmet. He apologized and Stoner should have accepted it as it was. This is real life, not some TV drama where Stoner is whining about the apology even now.

Also, could you give me some links where Rossi has been criticizing Stoner and Lorenzo for the last 6 months? All I remember is that Vale said "Jorge and Casey hate me", and then he was asked by the TV channel to rate them as riders, and he did, giving them 9.5 out of 10 or something. I am not aware of any other comments that he has been making regularly for the past 6 months. Excuse me for my ignorance regarding this.

CNR

5th April 2011, 23:44

The Phantom

6th April 2011, 02:48

The Phantom

6th April 2011, 02:59

So, if someone comes to apologize to you for an honest mistake, you would mock them...

Well that depends on what sort of history I had with that person.

Stoner, more than anyone, knew that Rossi should not have tried such a rash move on the Ducati, but more importantly Stoner knew that Rossi knew he should not have tried it. Let's say Lorenzo had done it to Stoner. Stoner would think 'Well, that's not normal for the M1 to do that, so just one of those things". But the Ducati does do that on a regular basis, and Rossi knows it, and Stoner knew it.

He has a right to expect more from Rossi. If you are going to put your life in your fellow riders hands, as you do each time you are alongside him at 275km/h, you really need your faith to be repaid.

larantuka

6th April 2011, 04:57

Great to see this discussion is getting warm with more various opinions.

I think if Rossi has asked apologies, never ever try to twist over by taking advantage he is close to media that it was Stoner's fault, publicly and in private, it means Rossi has acknowledged his mistake and Stoner just needs to accept it. Nothing can change and restore the incident that happened already.

However it's great regret, I can understand if Stoner came with responses slightly improperly. He can continue the race, in the incident his bike was on top of Rossi's and may have less damage, but marshals were more focus helping Rossi that put him more in bad mood and decided not to continue the race.

It may take times for Stoner for mental recovery, the only good way is forget the incident totally and just focusing on the next coming races. The race was only two rounds started off. We don't hope to see another Gibe which was never back on form after having problem with Rossi.

MrJan

6th April 2011, 08:22

And really, how can you state that Stoner is not the prime title contendor, considering his pre-season form, two from two poles, and dominant win at Qatar? Who else has shown that level of performance for the 2011 season? And let's not forget that Stoner himself has stated that there is plenty more to come from the Honda, and he is not one to grandstand.

I'd say that George is looking the most likely, tbh. Yamaha will begin to catch up and he's a lot more reliable than Stoner, in as much as he doesn't fall off as often and if he has a bad race he still seems to end up on the podium, unlike Stoner who will have a bad race and finish 6th or so. Much as I hate to admit it, because he's a penis, I think that Lorenzo will actually be the man to beat purely because of his consistency.

CaptainRaiden

6th April 2011, 10:24

Seb, what I was alluding to when I mentioned that other riders don't see Rossi as the fun-loving huggable bear his fans do, is that you need to view Stoner's reaction in the context of that. Stoner's reaction to the showboating apology is more than likely coloured by his far deeper knowledge of Rossi's character than any of his fans could possibly have, if that makes sense.

To put it another way, and I know the analog doesn't replicate the incident but look at the intent behind the analogy - if a kid bullies another kid at school in private, then gets caught doing it, and apologises to the kid - do you think that kid is going to take the apology on face value? Or dismiss it as a waste of breath?

We don't see all of Rossi's tricks and mindgames, but the riders sharing the track and the garages do. They have a very different take on Rossi. Stoner, being a guy who is prepared to speak his mind (or whinge, if you are a Rossi fanboi), simply made it clear just how much value can be attached to Rossi's apology. In fact I reckon Stoner's mindset at the time was on Rossi's pattern of behaviour as a whole, rather than just that one incident.

To be honest, the only two current riders who have problems with Rossi are Lorenzo and Stoner. And with Stoner, it was all fine and dandy until Laguna Seca 2008, from which point on it all went downhill, because Stoner just couldn't accept the fact that he was beaten fair and square. Rossi didn't do anything illegal that day. Also, after that race, Stoner crashed twice when Rossi was putting pressure on him, while he was fastest during testing and practice. Rossi beat Stoner in 2008 simply by pressuring him, putting him in scenarios where he's uncomfortable, and Stoner cracked, and it seems he's still emotionally affected by Rossi. With Lorenzo, it was the obvious intra-team politics that soured their relationship, which worsened further when Rossi put the same pressure on Lorenzo as well, and he cracked, i.e. crash in Jerez 2009 and the crushing last lap defeat at Barcelona. On the other hand, Pedrosa, Hayden, Edwards, Dovizioso, Capirossi, Barros, Elias etc. have all been in battle with Rossi and say only nice things. Toni Elias took Rossi out of a race TWICE in 2006, and even beat him to the line at Estoril in 2006, but their relationship has never soured.

Also, you talk about Rossi and Stoner as if Rossi is the big bully and Stoner is the victim. In reality it's nothing like that. They're simply arch rivals on competitive machinery, have been in the last 4 years. They're competitors and nobody is bullying anyone. If you think playing mind games is bullying, then you really don't know what real bullying is. With these weird cheap shots, Stoner is only showing that he's still affected by Rossi's mind games. He needs to learn to be bigger than all of this, and be normal, beat Rossi on track and become the champion again convincingly.

And really, how can you state that Stoner is not the prime title contendor, considering his pre-season form, two from two poles, and dominant win at Qatar? Who else has shown that level of performance for the 2011 season? And let's not forget that Stoner himself has stated that there is plenty more to come from the Honda, and he is not one to grandstand.

Only two races, buddy. There are still 18 races to go. At this point, yeah, you could say Stoner has a chance, but so does Marc Marquez in Moto2. So, saying that Stoner's crash was more important than Marquez and Cluzel's, is a bit shortsighted I would say.

CaptainRaiden

6th April 2011, 10:37

Well that depends on what sort of history I had with that person.

Stoner, more than anyone, knew that Rossi should not have tried such a rash move on the Ducati, but more importantly Stoner knew that Rossi knew he should not have tried it. Let's say Lorenzo had done it to Stoner. Stoner would think 'Well, that's not normal for the M1 to do that, so just one of those things". But the Ducati does do that on a regular basis, and Rossi knows it, and Stoner knew it.

What are you talking about? This is racing, and to quote the great Senna again, even though it was in F1 terms:

By being a racing driver you are under risk all the time. By being a racing driver means you are racing with other people. And if you no longer go for a gap that exists, you are no longer a racing driver because we are competing, competing to win. And the main motivation is to compete for victory, it’s not to come 3rd, 4th, 5th or 6th. I race to win as long as I feel it’s possible. Sometimes you get it wrong? Sure, it’s impossible to get it right all the time. But I race designed to win, as long as I feel I’m doing it right.

So, he obviously went for a gap which was there. What he didn't realize was that while he is amazing on brakes, Stoner is no slouch either. Stoner braked really late, Rossi braked later, went in too hot, and the inevitable happened. Was it brave? Yes. Was it stupid? Definitely. Should Rossi have been more patient? A resounding YES by fans and non-fans! BUT his instinct told him to go for it, and he went for it. It's just that it didn't serve him right this time. You don't become a 7 time world champion by being stupid. Obviously he knows the Ducati's limits, since he's riding it and we're not, and he knew he could do it, and so went for it. What happened was unfortunate and 100% his fault, but it was still a racing incident. He didn't try to "take out" Stoner in the second race of the season, with the chance of Ducati's only victory ahead.

He has a right to expect more from Rossi. If you are going to put your life in your fellow riders hands, as you do each time you are alongside him at 275km/h, you really need your faith to be repaid.

Please don't exaggerate things. It was a 1st gear corner, and they were doing hardly 80 KPH. Neither of their bikes even took any big damage. It was nowhere near what Simoncelli did to Barbera a few years ago at Mugello, where he tried to break the tow at 250 KPH, which catapulted Barbera, and could have been devastating. There have been worse accidents in motorcycle racing.

CaptainRaiden

6th April 2011, 10:40

bring back the law where no outside assistance can be given to a rider

Should Valentino Rossi be penalised for his collision with Casey Stoner?
in any other motorsport he would have got a drive thru penalty

I think it was definitely Rossi's fault 100%, and probably he should have been given a drive through or a time penalty. I'm sure he would have accepted that.

The Phantom

6th April 2011, 13:37

To be honest, the only two current riders who have problems with Rossi are Lorenzo and Stoner. And with Stoner, it was all fine and dandy until Laguna Seca 2008, from which point on it all went downhill, because Stoner just couldn't accept the fact that he was beaten fair and square. Rossi didn't do anything illegal that day. Also, after that race, Stoner crashed twice when Rossi was putting pressure on him, while he was fastest during testing and practice.

It completely amazes me that although it is now common knowledge that pretty much all of Stoners crashes on the Duc can be attributed to the shocking front end it has, there is still talk of Stoner being a serial crasher due to lack of talent, and pressure from Rossi. Completely amazes me.

Also, you talk about Rossi and Stoner as if Rossi is the big bully and Stoner is the victim.

See, even though I specifically stated that you needed to take the intent of my analogy, rather than the subject, you could not do that. This is why people generally don't bother getting into discussions with you. This is certainly the last time I will bother.

Only two races, buddy. There are still 18 races to go. At this point, yeah, you could say Stoner has a chance, but so does Marc Marquez in Moto2. So, saying that Stoner's crash was more important than Marquez and Cluzel's, is a bit shortsighted I would say.

How's Marquez's pre-season form been? Was he on pole at Qatar and Jerez? Is he on the top bike in the field? Has he already got the runs on the board? Taken the most wins since the inception of Moto2? One title to his name already? Give me a break. I'd never even heard of him before Qatar and now I'm learning that he is suddenly the prime Moto2 contender; he must be simply incredible.

Another post suggests Lorenzo as prime contender - maybe now, sure. But at the time Stoner was knocked off his bike, Lorenzo was the second most likely, not the most likely; once again the point I made was completely missed/ignored and I'm given another reason to not bother getting into discussions here.

Stoner braked really late

Stoner braked really late in the Rossi Fanboi Universe. In the real world, he was taking it easy and said he heard Rossi there and gave him room. This is born out by a simple viewing of footage of the incident. Stoner was cruising at the time which makes Rossi's stupid lunge even more stupid.

Please don't exaggerate things. It was a 1st gear corner, and they were doing hardly 80 KPH.

Well no **** Sherlock. A rational mind would see that what I wrote was generalising, but the point is exactly the same - Rossi failed to repay Stoner's faith in his ability to pass without wiping him out.

The sad thing about this is that it is likely the start of a sad and inglorious end to a glorious career - but nevermind, we have Marc Marquez to look forward to!

CaptainRaiden

6th April 2011, 17:59

It completely amazes me that although it is now common knowledge that pretty much all of Stoners crashes on the Duc can be attributed to the shocking front end it has, there is still talk of Stoner being a serial crasher due to lack of talent, and pressure from Rossi. Completely amazes me.

Oh yes, that is why he came into Laguna Seca riding on a three win streak and two podiums, was fastest by 1.5 seconds in practice, made a mistake in the race, crashed, then right after that race, crashed at Brno and Misano. All the while, not crashing even ONCE during the three days of mid-year Brno testing, doing 150+ laps, topped all sessions, where his times were the same as in qualifying, again, without crashing even once. And in the race he crashed as soon as Rossi overtook 2nd, and they showed Rossi's name on the pit board. That was within the first 10 laps if I remember correctly. Surely, no pressure, it's ONLY the front end. :rolleyes:

See, even though I specifically stated that you needed to take the intent of my analogy, rather than the subject, you could not do that. This is why people generally don't bother getting into discussions with you. This is certainly the last time I will bother.

I didn't resort to personal insults. But please, do go on. Also, talk for yourself, not for "other people".

How's Marquez's pre-season form been? Was he on pole at Qatar and Jerez? Is he on the top bike in the field? Has he already got the runs on the board? Taken the most wins since the inception of Moto2? One title to his name already? Give me a break. I'd never even heard of him before Qatar and now I'm learning that he is suddenly the prime Moto2 contender; he must be simply incredible.

Who do you have to blame for your ignorance now? Marc Marquez is the reigning World 125 cc champion, where he blasted his closest competitors on factory Aprilias with 10 victories in 2010, whereas his teammate on the same Derbi, finished 7th in the championship. This was arguably more impressive than both Pedrosa and Lorenzo's 125 campaign, whom probably you would have slagged as well as being a nobody. Also much more impressive than Toni Elias, Andrea Iannone and Stefan Bradl's 125 days. Also, if you cared to look, Marquez either topped the pre season Moto2 testing or was at least second. He qualified 2nd on the grid for Qatar and 4th for Jerez, and these are only 2 races in his Moto2 career. Also, he's riding a Suter chassis bike, which was one of the most successful Moto2 bikes of 2010, also the bike on which Andrea Iannone won with in Jerez. Granted this is his first year, but he's an exceptional talent, and with 18 races to go, anyone with half a brain, or someone who knows, would bet that Marquez still has a pretty good shot at the title.

Another post suggests Lorenzo as prime contender - maybe now, sure. But at the time Stoner was knocked off his bike, Lorenzo was the second most likely, not the most likely; once again the point I made was completely missed/ignored and I'm given another reason to not bother getting into discussions here.

Then why bother? Go back to hugging Ant West and Stoner nuts, as this is what really goes on in the "Motorcycle Racing" forum and anybody with a different view has to deal with a bunch of angry partisan Aussies.

Stoner braked really late in the Rossi Fanboi Universe. In the real world, he was taking it easy and said he heard Rossi there and gave him room. This is born out by a simple viewing of footage of the incident. Stoner was cruising at the time which makes Rossi's stupid lunge even more stupid.

Heh, just rewatched the move, and Stoner DID brake really late, and gave Rossi hardly any room, at which point Rossi stupidly tried to squeeze through and made the error. Rossi should have backed off and tried it later. Just watch Rossi's pass on Lorenzo and then on Stoner and compare them, you'll get the answer. Taking easy my ass.

Well no **** Sherlock. A rational mind would see that what I wrote was generalising, but the point is exactly the same - Rossi failed to repay Stoner's faith in his ability to pass without wiping him out.

What the heck are you on about, repay faith, blah blah. That was a clear racing incident. It wasn't intentional, so the "wiping him out" comment is ridiculous. Rossi has passed countless riders on his way to 7 championships in the last decade, including your princess several times, how many people has he "wiped out"? And before you go on, please, Rossi knows what the Ducati can or cannot do after having ridden it all throughout pre-season testing and 2 races now. Armchair experts don't need to tell him whether he should try overtaking or not because of the suspect front end. :rolleyes:

The sad thing about this is that it is likely the start of a sad and inglorious end to a glorious career - but nevermind, we have Marc Marquez to look forward to!

Wow, counting our chickens before they hatch, are we? Rossi could still win it this year, and don't be too shocked when Marquez makes it to MotoGP.

patnicholls

7th April 2011, 00:27

A good pic I spotted on Twitter:

http://twitpic.com/4gubm9

The Phantom

7th April 2011, 01:50

Well there you go - red herrings make excellent bait.

learn something new every day...

MrJan

7th April 2011, 08:47

Another post suggests Lorenzo as prime contender - maybe now, sure. But at the time Stoner was knocked off his bike, Lorenzo was the second most likely, not the most likely; once again the point I made was completely missed/ignored and I'm given another reason to not bother getting into discussions here.

I still think that Lorenzo was the contender anyway. Like I said his consistency is key and that's something that Stoner has never really grabbed (although admittedly this was due to jumping off the bike in the first season and then a mixture of reliability/injury/illness issues since). When that Yamaha gets better (which I'm sure that it will) he'll be doing the usual thing of winning all over the place.

patnicholls

7th April 2011, 13:17

I think we're all getting a little overexcited here :) For me: racing accident in tricky conditions; bad luck that Casey was there; no penalty; that's it. Should've taken helmet off whilst apologising.

It's interesting to see how things have developed though since this time last year (as someone who doesn't really have a favourite amongst the main four challengers).

Jorge seems calmer - the couple of crashes which blighted his rookie days in MotoGP look to have gone, and how he's managed the mind games and PR against Valentino has basically worked ('you want a flamboyant series of celebrations? I can do that'). Casey is still the guy saying what he thinks and not worrying too much about who he upsets. Dani isn't big into PR, but his racecraft - particularly passing people on the brakes rather than getting a run out of the corners - is much better than two years ago or so.

Valentino...I don't know. Since the crash at Mugello, he seems...a little bitter. (here were his controversial preseason comments: http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/167316/1/valentino_rossi_opens_up_over_key_motogp_rivals.ht ml) Having been so complementary about Yamaha throughout his time there, it then all fell apart whilst he was out injured - part of the reason for this will have been that Valentino's broken leg forced Yamaha to think more about the future, as Valentino won't be racing forever and is much nearer to the end than the start. I was highly surprised about his comments about Yamaha and their looking after Jorge - what exactly were they supposed to do to take care of their future? No doubt Valentino's talent, public personality and PR celebration stunts are a massive asset to MotoGP, but when the cracks start to show it isn't as pretty as you'd like (a bit like Fernando Alonso - mostly a model professional, but sometimes it slips). He has certainly always liked things done his way, which is another topic for debate.

The Phantom

7th April 2011, 13:46

I hope Rossi doesn't lose his grip - the new guard overthrowing the emperor was inevitable, how he handles it now that he's under the gun will be quite telling. I hope he holds up - he certainly deserves kudos for taking on the challenge of the Ducati (don't think he really understood what he was getting into there, though!).

My respect for Pedrosa grows with each race. He is getting tougher and is definitely a title contender rather than merely a top three contender.

Lorenzo & Stoner have proven they have 'it'.

As for the others, Spies seems to be feeling the pressure this year, as well he should. But it's pretty clear he can take it. Dovi seems destined to be the Slight/Haga of the current GP era, Edwards is marking time, RdP is the flawed genius, Hiro a definite podium threat, Hayden needs to find his inner mongrel, and Simmo is just insane :p :

As we had all hoped, 2011 is well on track to be a vintage season.

markabilly

7th April 2011, 18:44

sic transit gloria

NinjaMaster

9th April 2011, 13:26

These are all little details, which at the end of the day don't matter. An apology is an apology. Rossi put up his hand and apologized to Stoner twice, WHILE Stoner was taking cheap shots, and then he put his hands together and apologized to the Honda crew as well. All this while, Stoner was being ironic. It doesn't mean squat whether it was on camera or he didn't take off his helmet. He apologized and Stoner should have accepted it as it was. This is real life, not some TV drama where Stoner is whining about the apology even now.

They are little details and they DO matter. An apology is only an apology if it's genuine and Casey obviously didn't see it as genuine, much the same as you haven't accepted Stoners apology to Rossi after Laguna as you feel it was PR driven, not real.
Put it this way: if I were to publicly criticise you personally on a number of occasions, then made a stupid mistake, commiting the same error I have accused you of. Then I drive to your house, finding you in your front yard, I apologise without getting out of my car. How do you think you would take it and how sincere do you believe I would be?

Also, could you give me some links where Rossi has been criticizing Stoner and Lorenzo for the last 6 months? All I remember is that Vale said "Jorge and Casey hate me", and then he was asked by the TV channel to rate them as riders, and he did, giving them 9.5 out of 10 or something. I am not aware of any other comments that he has been making regularly for the past 6 months. Excuse me for my ignorance regarding this.

You should probably have kept reading the transcript from the tv show where Rossi said Stoner was a madman who repeats the same mistakes and criticised his race craft (he was far harsher of Lorenzo). This is on the back of Rossi saying that Casey didn't push the Ducati hard enough late last year.