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pino
24th March 2011, 17:29
Who's going to win this ? It's Massa last chance to show his talent (and keep his seat) so I am sure it will be much closer than last year ;) What you guys think ?

SGWilko
24th March 2011, 17:55
Massa all the way......

.....then I wake up.....!

Retro Formula 1
24th March 2011, 17:57
How about a cheeky bet pino.

£50 and I'll give you £100 if Massa preveils :)

pino
24th March 2011, 17:59
Massa all the way......

.....then I wake up.....!

Who's talking ? your head or heart ? :p :

pino
24th March 2011, 18:01
How about a cheeky bet pino.

£50 and I'll give you £100 if Massa preveils :)

OK at one condition...same bet MS vs Rosberg, I take Rosberg :p :

SGWilko
24th March 2011, 18:02
Who's talking ? your head or heart ? :p :

I'll have to ask the Trouble & Strife, as Massa only wins when I am asleep - she will no doubt be able to interpret my snores.... :laugh:

I would like Massa to put one over Fred, really I would..........

Sonic
24th March 2011, 19:27
Fernando, Massa is faster than you...

Kevincal
24th March 2011, 19:50
massa can only win if fred misses a few races...

Dave B
24th March 2011, 19:53
I hope it's Massa, but now that team orders are officially allowed the poor guy doesn't stand a chance against Santander's favourite son.

driveace
24th March 2011, 20:22
Me thinks Massa,s last year with the Tifosi,but where does he go in 2012?

woody2goody
24th March 2011, 20:42
I would like Massa to beat Alonso, but to be honest I can see it being even more one-sided than last year, especially now team-orders are allowed.

Even if Alonso is behind Massa in the first race, Massa won't be allowed to win. I can just see that happening sadly.

Fernando is mighty though - he'll win some races this year regardless of how fast Red Bull are.

woody2goody
24th March 2011, 20:43
Me thinks Massa,s last year with the Tifosi,but where does he go in 2012?

Sauber I reckon.

Tazio
24th March 2011, 20:58
Pino you're horse shyt for starting a thread like this!

Garry Walker
24th March 2011, 21:45
Santander will win, because of two reasons.
1) Massa is not the same driver he was before his accident
2) Sponsors will not be happy if their golden boy gets beaten.

ioan
24th March 2011, 22:20
Who's going to win this ? It's Massa last chance to show his talent (and keep his seat) so I am sure it will be much closer than last year ;) What you guys think ?

I think he showed his talent already, just some people have very short and selective memory.


Anyway, only a few more hours to go from now.

Tazio
24th March 2011, 22:29
Pino you're a falking poser

Tazio
24th March 2011, 22:43
Pino what is the going rate for selling out as a Tifosi?
figuring into the equation being Bitch-slapped by each of Fkavio's bitches

CNR
24th March 2011, 22:52
the only way i can see them letting massa win is if alonso was so far behind that even winning the last 6 races would not give alonso the points to win the drivers championship

massa could always get on the radio
T#$H^E R%%%$AD*IO is breaking U$#@P i can't understand you $
and take a win

gloomyDAY
24th March 2011, 23:22
Pino you're horse shyt for starting a thread like this!


Pino you're a falking poser


Pino what is the going rate for selling out as a Tifosi?
figuring into the equation being Bitch-slapped by each of Fkavio's bitcheshttp://lolyounghollywood.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/YouMad.gif (http://lolyounghollywood.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/YouMad.gif)

truefan72
24th March 2011, 23:27
In order for Massa to have any kind of good year or measure over his teammate, he has got to come out of the gate on fire like his family has been held ransom and he needs to win to keep them alive. If Massa has a good firs 203 races with perhaps a win and a podium, while Alonso lags behind then its on. Alonso will go crazy and Massa will reclaim his confidence. Then we will see a true battle that might end in tears. the smart money is on Alonso, but I think an angry Massa/Smedley with an axe to grind just might step up.

jas123f1
25th March 2011, 00:45
Who's going to win this ? It's Massa last chance to show his talent (and keep his seat) so I am sure it will be much closer than last year ;) What you guys think ?

Sure - i should like to see Massa drive for his own title, BUT I can't see it happen. I hope his radio breaks down in some cases .. it would be nice to hear ... "Sorry guys, I can't hear you - it must be something wrong with my radio".. ;)

Tazio
25th March 2011, 01:04
A day in the life of pino


http://www.aperfectworld.org/cartoons/2002/bitchslap.gif

Koz
25th March 2011, 01:59
Massa will have better results in the first 3 of 4 races. After that Alonso will dominate.


Sauber I reckon.
Alonso would not be happy if they got Kobayashi in return.

Tazio
25th March 2011, 04:03
Bitch-slapped!!

truefan72
25th March 2011, 04:18
Bitch-slapped!!

are you trying to get banned?

Tazio
25th March 2011, 06:44
are you trying to get banned?
Well blow me!! Who wants to know?



http://www.aperfectworld.org/cartoons/2002/bitchslap.gif


I just thought since this is such an importamt topic that I should comment on the running score.

555-04Q2
25th March 2011, 06:55
Who's going to win this ? It's Massa last chance to show his talent (and keep his seat) so I am sure it will be much closer than last year ;) What you guys think ?

Alonso will clean up my man Massa again. Alonso is one of the best drivers ever to grace F1 and while Massa is a good driver, he is not in the same league. 2011 will mirror the 2010 one.

Big Ben
25th March 2011, 08:39
Interesting thread... I think Pino wanted to ban some people :laugh: ... unfortunately for the FA haters (or pseudo FM fans) beside pointless references to FM's missed lucky win last year there's no much you can say in his defense. Even Autosport didn't find anything else worthy saying about him in their articles about today's free practice sessions then the fact that he was one of those who drove several times off-track

TheFamousEccles
25th March 2011, 08:54
Massa for mine, purely because Fred Sh!ts me to tears, spoilt prat.

pino
25th March 2011, 09:15
It wasn't my intention to ban anyone ! I am excited about the new season and just wanted to discuss this friendly fight between Ferrari drivers that's all. I don't understand why someone got mad and started to insult me :s I am a Ferrari fan, I like both Alonso and Massa so why can't I start such a thread ? :crazy:

Please back to the topic now :)

ArrowsFA1
25th March 2011, 09:38
If last year showed us anything it was that Alonso is firmly the #1 at Ferrari in much the same way as Michael was. That being the case Massa is a very strong #2, although I'm convinced he's not the driver he was before his accident. I'd love to see Felipe take the fight to his teammate but I don't see it happening.

Big Ben
25th March 2011, 10:36
It wasn't my intention to ban anyone ! I am excited about the new season and just wanted to discuss this friendly fight between Ferrari drivers that's all. I don't understand why someone got mad and started to insult me :s I am a Ferrari fan, I like both Alonso and Massa so why can't I start such a thread ? :crazy:

Please back to the topic now :)

I was just joking. I've just realized that someone was actually banned. I was expecting other people to go nuts.

jens
25th March 2011, 16:54
Alonso will win. We might discuss, how small or big the gap is going to be though. If Felipe gets beaten as thoroughly again, he will earn pretty much the reputation Fisichella had in 2006 after having had high expectations a few years earlier.

wedge
25th March 2011, 17:24
Alonso

Speed and beating Alonso helps but does Massa have the balls to stand up and be counted within Ferrari? No. The German GP last year said it all, really.

You can argue how bad team orders are or why can't teams be structured similar to the US but is the egos and psychological warfare which in part makes F1 so utterly fascinating.

martinbalmer
25th March 2011, 18:58
Be nice if Massa beats Alonso but, all things considered, I'll be surprised...

Mark
25th March 2011, 19:01
Of course team orders are allowed this year which puts Massa at an even bigger disadvantage. How he rues 2008!

Mia 01
26th March 2011, 12:47
The team is supporting Alono now, sorry Massa, I know the pain(Kimi).

Robinho
26th March 2011, 12:55
easiest question of the year. Even if Massa was right on his game (which he isn't) i think Alonso would edge him. Massa has an opportunity early this year to impose himself, but its not looking likely. Alonso is too strong as a driver and mentally for Massa, and Massa in Alonso's shadow is only going to look worse. He'd be better of in a team for him, but i struggle to see that happening either. Nice guy, immensley quick on his day, but it seems his best is behind him and he seems broken by Alonso. Pity

markabilly
26th March 2011, 13:56
Of course team orders are allowed this year which puts Massa at an even bigger disadvantage. How he rues 2008!

yeah if ferrari had not continued to use that really stupid pit stop system, he would have won that race instead of being in the back of the pack at Singingwhore. Those points would have meant he stomped lewis, without it being even that close.....


Besides as I said about Nick, it is all about car set up favoring how a particular driver uses the car.

Do you think that Webber has suddenly lost a second or so compared to vettel???

No, it is just that the team has figured out what makes vettel faster than webber, and then done it.

Retro Formula 1
28th March 2011, 18:05
OK at one condition...same bet MS vs Rosberg, I take Rosberg :p :

Touche old fruit. Guess we'll call that honours even instead.

(Are you sure you wouldn't like to double up by backing the Red Baron :laugh: )

Robinho
28th March 2011, 19:02
can everyone spell whitewash?

next race should be important to Massa, Malaysia was one of the few tracks where he seemed to be as quicker or quicker than MS (Turkey being his other). if he is reamed there like he was here I call his season over already

pino
8th April 2011, 13:26
Massa faster than Alonso so far...what a great surprise :up:

F1boat
9th April 2011, 11:21
but in the end, didn't Fred prevail?

N4D13
9th April 2011, 12:49
The end is coming on Sunday, not Saturday. :p

I'm talking about the race, ofc. I don't really feel like making apocalyptic predictions. :D

Mia 01
9th April 2011, 13:03
They sacked Kimi, well, alonso!!?

ioan
9th April 2011, 14:06
but in the end, didn't Fred prevail?

They have to play by the script! :p

jens
9th April 2011, 14:46
People often say that Massa "lost something" with the accident, but I don't see, how are tyre issues related to the accident? Driver performances can simply fluctuate - Fisichella didn't have any accidents before, but after teaming up with Alonso was suddenly out of his depth.

But Massa's claims that he can't heat up the tyres, are surprising. I mean recalling 07-08 we had several drivers complaining about tyres, but never Massa. He always somehow nailed his qualifying laps and got lots of pole positions. So what's wrong now? I have a hypothesis that Felipe lost something with slick tyres. He didn't look special in 2009 in qualifyings either. Although at least his race pace was still good then...

Mia 01
9th April 2011, 16:43
Even Felipe is as fast as the slow Fred, overhyped just like MS a corporate robot. Whitout Kimi Ferrari are lost for long time, they deserves it.

Sonic
9th April 2011, 17:19
Even Felipe is as fast as the slow Fred, overhyped just like MS a corporate robot. Whitout Kimi Ferrari are lost for long time, they deserves it.

But at least you're not bitter Mia ;)

Mia 01
9th April 2011, 21:16
But at least you're not bitter Mia ;)

For now I enyoy it!!

Garry Walker
10th April 2011, 14:55
Well, Ferrari did their best to make sure Santander gets past Massa, but unfortunately for them, Santander made a mistake again.

jens
10th April 2011, 15:46
Exactly the same result for Ferrari as in 2006 - Massa in 5th, team-mate right behind. Alonso seems to have one obvious weakness in his arsenal and that is race starts. But alas on most occasions FM is not fast enough to capitalize on his initially better track position. Sepang is historically one of Massa's stronger circuits as well, so a decent result was overdue.

airshifter
11th April 2011, 04:41
Well, Ferrari did their best to make sure Santander gets past Massa, but unfortunately for them, Santander made a mistake again.

A pit stop screwed Felipe, Fernando Santander screwed himself. Quite fitting result.

steveaki13
16th April 2011, 10:49
I think Felipe did a good job in Quali today, the Ferrari is clearly struggling around here in China and Massa was right their alongside Alonso on the 3rd row. A good place to score points from and from their point of view, hope one of the top 3 drop out and one Ferrari can claim a podium.

Lets face it this race if Vettel and the Mclaren's race is clean then a Ferrari 4th and 5th is the only thing to aim at.

Mia 01
16th April 2011, 22:13
For now Ferrari miss Kimi and so does Maclaren.

DexDexter
16th April 2011, 22:24
For now Ferrari miss Kimi and so does Maclaren.

Let's forget about Kimi, he's a hobbyist nowadays. :)

ioan
16th April 2011, 23:11
Does anyone know why is Mr. Santander President traveling with the team to each and every race week end? I would have thought that he has a bank to supervise.

Big Ben
16th April 2011, 23:42
Now Ioan's teaching Botin how to run his bank :laugh:

ioan
17th April 2011, 00:24
Now Ioan's teaching Botin how to run his bank :laugh:

As long as it disturbs you I can only be happy! :rotflmao:

Koz
17th April 2011, 06:38
Does anyone know why is Mr. Santander President traveling with the team to each and every race week end? I would have thought that he has a bank to supervise.

He is focusing some of his attention on his favourite investment. Legend has it diamonds pop out of Alonso's... :)

Garry Walker
17th April 2011, 10:45
Massa absolutely destroyed Alonso today, awesome, awesome.

We all know how well Alonso handles team competition.

Robinho
17th April 2011, 10:50
that was a surprise today, nice drive

Dave B
17th April 2011, 10:55
There was a stage in the middle of the race where Alonso didn't look like he was awake, let alone driving a Ferrari. I can't imagine he'll be happy with the car's pace, but he'll be doubly annoyed that his team "mate" is quicker... than... him.

truefan72
17th April 2011, 11:00
Redemption for felipe, clearly out-drove Alonso by a country mile...and he did not need to cheat with the DRS outside of the zone

F1boat
17th April 2011, 11:00
I was happy to see battle between Alonso and MS, albeit for a low position. Almost like the good ol'days :)

steveaki13
17th April 2011, 11:22
Massa drove really well today and showed that Fernando is struggling to come to terms with Massa's pace and the Ferrari's lack of it.

DexDexter
17th April 2011, 11:22
There was a stage in the middle of the race where Alonso didn't look like he was awake, let alone driving a Ferrari. I can't imagine he'll be happy with the car's pace, but he'll be doubly annoyed that his team "mate" is quicker... than... him.

Maybe Alonso wasn't interested. Let's hope he doesn't make the mistake of eating ice cream after the race, I mean in the old days that was the cardinal sin. :rolleyes: On a more serious note, he just had a bad race, happens to everybody.

pino
17th April 2011, 11:49
Nice drive by Massa, if wasn't for the tires he could've ended on podium :D

Bullet
17th April 2011, 19:20
Massa got a better start, and pit strategy stuffed Alonso behind MS ruining any chance he had to fight at the front. Last week he had the pace for a podium and quali is 3-0 for Alonso... let's not start slathering lotion all over Massa just yet. :D

N4D13
17th April 2011, 21:27
If there's anything that Alonso has been doing wrong for the last three races, that's his starts - I believe that in all the races so far, Massa has done better than him. But I couldn't agree with the suggestions that Massa has destroyed Alonso in China or anything like that - their paces were very similar, it's just that Alonso lost a lot of time behind MS after an ill-timed pitstop, and his race went downwards from there.

Mia 01
17th April 2011, 21:32
But at least you're not bitter Mia ;)

No I´m not, not today.

Jag_Warrior
17th April 2011, 22:23
Hamilton wins. :up:
Webber makes a charge from 18th to 3rd. :up:
Massa beats Alonso. :up:

Yep, all is good in the world today. :s mokin:

Big Ben
17th April 2011, 22:36
As long as it disturbs you I can only be happy! :rotflmao:

it disturbs me that I mean so much to you. you should be concerned a little too. it´s not normal

555-04Q2
18th April 2011, 07:20
Good to see Massa doing well against Alonso. And he likes the next track at Turkey :)

Keep it up boetjie :up:

steveaki13
18th April 2011, 18:24
Yes of course.

He can get on a bit of a role with one of his fav tracks coming next. Perfect timing for Felipe.

I know its evil :devil: but I would love to see Felipe have a better first half season than Fernando, so that when Ferrari can use there team orders legally, it is for the benefit of Massa.

Imagine in that scenerio that Fred would be very much against those type of team orders. :p :

jas123f1
19th April 2011, 12:32
Let's forget about Kimi, he's a hobbyist nowadays. :)

Why? we should forget Kimi ? Ferraris latest world champion..
The fact is - Ferrari sacked him out from > F1 circus < with Santander money to get less competition against them..

Ferrari sacked one of the quickest drivers in F1 and bought then Alonso with Santander money – it’s unfair in my opinion however and I will not be too sad if Ferrari don’t take any title however as far as Alonso is the first driver and Massa his lapdog.

So – however I don’t like to forget anything .. not when :p imp: money speaks too much ..

keysersoze
19th April 2011, 17:43
It's become more clear lately that Fernando is not the quickest, most complete driver anymore, and that that torch has been passed. It's now being jointly held by Lewis and Sebastian.

DexDexter
19th April 2011, 18:14
Why? we should forget Kimi ? Ferraris latest world champion..
The fact is - Ferrari sacked him out from > F1 circus < with Santander money to get less competition against them..

Ferrari sacked one of the quickest drivers in F1 and bought then Alonso with Santander money – it’s unfair in my opinion however and I will not be too sad if Ferrari don’t take any title however as far as Alonso is the first driver and Massa his lapdog.

So – however I don’t like to forget anything .. not when :p imp: money speaks too much ..

The reason we should forget him is that he is no longer an active F1 driver, it's no use speculating since he is not/will not be in F1 anymore. Let's look for new heroes.

I agree with you about Alonso.

ioan
20th April 2011, 20:13
It's become more clear lately that Fernando is not the quickest, most complete driver anymore, and that that torch has been passed. It's now being jointly held by Lewis and Sebastian.

Alonso has never been the quickest, nor the most complete driver in F1 anyway.

ioan
20th April 2011, 20:14
it disturbs me that I mean so much to you. you should be concerned a little too. it´s not normal

To be honest you mean nothing to me! :D

keysersoze
21st April 2011, 03:12
Alonso has never been the quickest, nor the most complete driver in F1 anyway.

In the opinion of many, he was. So there. Go back to your hole. :dozey:

ioan
21st April 2011, 06:51
In the opinion of many, he was. So there. Go back to your hole. :dozey:

In my opinion he wasn't. So there. Go back to your hole. :dozey:

DexDexter
21st April 2011, 09:55
In the opinion of many, he was. So there. Go back to your hole. :dozey:

But obviously he isn't, a fact that MANY of us knew from the start. The ice cream guy did as well as Fernando is doing, actually he did better. Still, Alonso is a good package for Ferrari: A driver who can win the WDC if the car is good enough, brings a huge sponsor with him and represents a big Spanish-speaking market.

F1boat
21st April 2011, 10:08
But obviously he isn't, a fact that MANY of us knew from the start. The ice cream guy did as well as Fernando is doing, actually he did better. Still, Alonso is a good package for Ferrari: A driver who can win the WDC if the car is good enough, brings a huge sponsor with him and represents a big Spanish-speaking market.

Fernando is more successful driver than Kimi, this is a fact. He has more victories and more championships. About whether he is better, it's debatable, but it is fact that even prior to the German GP in 2010, he did way better against Massa, than Kimi in 2007, not to mention 2008. Actually, I think that even in 2009, prior to the accident in Hungary, Massa outscored Raikkonen easily.
Now, I don't think that there are any perfect drivers, but if you compare Raikkonen and Alonso, I can understand why someone would choose Alonso. Now add to this the reality that F1 is as much as business as it is sport and if Ferrari thought that Alonso fits more with the image of the team, it's normal to get him and in the end, if Ferrari feel better with a driver, who radiates dedication to them, it is logical to get Alonso over Raikkonen.
Don't get me wrong, I cheered for Kimi when he won in 2007, he is cool driver and a fast one, but I kinda think that in the end his "I don't give a d@mn" attitude was his undoing. That's why Ferrari chose Alonso over him and McLaren Jenson.

Retro Formula 1
21st April 2011, 10:32
Anyone that writes Alonso off is foolish in my opinion. Personally, I think Lewis is the best driver at the moment. He sometimes overdrives a car and makes mistakes but it's better to be that way than the other. Alonso tends to do the same to an extent but when things aren't the best, he has a habbit of being pretty nondescript such as the first part of last year and this. Vettel is fast but it's pretty easy to be fast in a car that is head and shoulders above the rest.

Alonso will come good. Of this I have no doubt but if McLaren can get a bit closer to Red Bull or Ferrari get on the pace, you will see Seb getting eaten for lunch.

(Oops. It's a Massa thread. Well, great effort but normal service will soo be resumed at Ferrari)

SGWilko
21st April 2011, 12:18
Fernando is more successful driver than Kimi, this is a fact. He has more victories and more championships.

What Kimi provided Ferrari with was a championship in his first year, while not driving the best car. Arguably, Ferrari was almost the best car last year, but Fred made his share of silly mistakes.

Ice cream aside, Kimi got the job done, Fred has yet to do so, and has cost the team/sponsor a fair wad of Euro's to boot......

AndyL
21st April 2011, 12:30
Alonso has never been the quickest, nor the most complete driver in F1 anyway.

I'd also disagree with that assessment. He has admitted himself that he's not the quickest or most talented driver, but when he was at Renault he was surely the most complete. Today you might point to Vettel or a maturing Hamilton as his equal, but if you go back a couple of years I'd struggle to point out who was a more "complete" driver than Alonso at that time.

Big Ben
21st April 2011, 12:35
To be honest you mean nothing to me! :D

I would be ashamed of it too

Mia 01
21st April 2011, 13:24
Fernando is more successful driver than Kimi, this is a fact. He has more victories and more championships. About whether he is better, it's debatable, but it is fact that even prior to the German GP in 2010, he did way better against Massa, than Kimi in 2007, not to mention 2008. Actually, I think that even in 2009, prior to the accident in Hungary, Massa outscored Raikkonen easily.
Now, I don't think that there are any perfect drivers, but if you compare Raikkonen and Alonso, I can understand why someone would choose Alonso. Now add to this the reality that F1 is as much as business as it is sport and if Ferrari thought that Alonso fits more with the image of the team, it's normal to get him and in the end, if Ferrari feel better with a driver, who radiates dedication to them, it is logical to get Alonso over Raikkonen.
Don't get me wrong, I cheered for Kimi when he won in 2007, he is cool driver and a fast one, but I kinda think that in the end his "I don't give a d@mn" attitude was his undoing. That's why Ferrari chose Alonso over him and McLaren Jenson.

That´s Alonsos attitude nowdays, kicked out Kimi and got this.

DexDexter
21st April 2011, 13:57
Fernando is more successful driver than Kimi, this is a fact. He has more victories and more championships. About whether he is better, it's debatable, but it is fact that even prior to the German GP in 2010, he did way better against Massa, than Kimi in 2007, not to mention 2008. Actually, I think that even in 2009, prior to the accident in Hungary, Massa outscored Raikkonen easily.
Now, I don't think that there are any perfect drivers, but if you compare Raikkonen and Alonso, I can understand why someone would choose Alonso. Now add to this the reality that F1 is as much as business as it is sport and if Ferrari thought that Alonso fits more with the image of the team, it's normal to get him and in the end, if Ferrari feel better with a driver, who radiates dedication to them, it is logical to get Alonso over Raikkonen.
Don't get me wrong, I cheered for Kimi when he won in 2007, he is cool driver and a fast one, but I kinda think that in the end his "I don't give a d@mn" attitude was his undoing. That's why Ferrari chose Alonso over him and McLaren Jenson.

I was just referring to the fact that Räikkönen won the WDC title for Ferrari, Alonso hasn't, and will not win it this year. That should not be forgotten. Comparing their respective performances to Massa doesn't really work since Massa had a near fatal accident in between and Räikkönen didn't demand preferential treatment like Alonso. The fact is Alonso hasn't raised the team to another level in these 1 1/2 years, their performances are not better than they were during the Kimi era. The drivers are/were not the problem (like they said), it's the team management and technical team that's to blame.

BTW, Mclaren didn't choose Jenson, Räikkönen chose not to drive for them.

keysersoze
21st April 2011, 15:49
From an article today, about Vettel's Senna-esque talent:

. . . Although stopping short of making similar comparisons, Gerhard Berger said he felt that the championship leader was now the most complete racer on the grid.

"Before the season began I thought Alonso was the best driver, but maybe now it's Sebastian," Berger said.


Gerhard Berger. Now there's an insider's perspective. :cool:

Mia 01
21st April 2011, 16:00
I was just referring to the fact that Räikkönen won the WDC title for Ferrari, Alonso hasn't, and will not win it this year. That should not be forgotten. Comparing their respective performances to Massa doesn't really work since Massa had a near fatal accident in between and Räikkönen didn't demand preferential treatment like Alonso. The fact is Alonso hasn't raised the team to another level in these 1 1/2 years, their performances are not better than they were during the Kimi era. The drivers are/were not the problem (like they said), it's the team management and technical team that's to blame.

BTW, Mclaren didn't choose Jenson, Räikkönen chose not to drive for them.

Spot on, but the Lewis and Fernando fans is rleuctant to admit that obvious.

jas123f1
28th April 2011, 23:55
Fernando is more successful driver than Kimi, this is a fact..

First - I don't think he is, BUT that's not the point. The point is that Ferrari kick out one of quickest driver ever in F1. THAT's the point. First they give him the job - he became world champion (first ever Ferrari driver who take the title in his first year) BUT THEY KICK HIM OUT - and Alonso was there and was playing with them playing with Santander money.

Is it fair ? No - it is not - every one know that - even Ferrari ..

That's it :)

JackSparrow
29th April 2011, 02:48
It will be justice served if Massa gets the better of Nando this year..............to Felipe and Kimi fans as well.

After all he(FA) was supposed to be the Messiah

ioan
29th April 2011, 16:58
First - I don't think he is, BUT that's not the point. The point is that Ferrari kick out one of quickest driver ever in F1. THAT's the point. First they give him the job - he became world champion (first ever Ferrari driver who take the title in his first year)

I think that you got that part wrong.

F1boat
30th April 2011, 11:55
First - I don't think he is, BUT that's not the point. The point is that Ferrari kick out one of quickest driver ever in F1. THAT's the point. First they give him the job - he became world champion (first ever Ferrari driver who take the title in his first year) BUT THEY KICK HIM OUT - and Alonso was there and was playing with them playing with Santander money.

Is it fair ? No - it is not - every one know that - even Ferrari ..

That's it :)
Well, Ferrari prefer a great driver with money than a great driver with no money, if you want to simplify things... hardly a surprise...

Ranger
30th April 2011, 13:25
First - I don't think he is, BUT that's not the point. The point is that Ferrari kick out one of quickest driver ever in F1. THAT's the point. First they give him the job - he became world champion (first ever Ferrari driver who take the title in his first year) BUT THEY KICK HIM OUT - and Alonso was there and was playing with them playing with Santander money.

Is it fair ? No - it is not - every one know that - even Ferrari ..

That's it :)

There is nothing unfair about it.

Kimi got paid $45 million per year, every year he drove for Ferrari.

He was beaten soundly by Massa in two of those years before his accident.

He was still paid more than any other F1 driver last year. (Link (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/story?id=6391391))

It's over. He's finished with F1 by choice. Some people don't like that, but it's the reality.

No amount of whinging about Santander/Alonso/Germany 2010 can change that.

Koz
30th April 2011, 14:04
Funny how people start jumping up and down when driver has one good/bad race...

What happened in Australia? Who was the faster driver?

What happened in Malaysia? Was Massa faster than Alonso? Or was Alonso unlucky that he was fighting with Hamilton and broke his car?




He was beaten soundly by Massa in two of those years before his accident.

I don't think he was beaten soundly...

Had he not gotten the penalty in Monaco or rammed by Hamilton and even those "team orders" in China... Where would he be in the championship? Do some math :)

Yep, soundly beaten indeed.

How many fastest laps did he set? How many Massa?
At the end of the day neither man was champion, and second is still the first loser :)

2009 was a weird season and I will say you can't judge *anyone* by that season. We all saw what happened to everyone who showed up Ferrari after his departure... But Kimi did get a win, which I don't think Massa would have been able to do.

Edit:


There is nothing unfair about it.
No amount of whinging about Santander/Alonso/Germany 2010 can change that.

I just remembered how Massa baby had tears in his eyes in Brasil in 2007. And him being a little bitch in Germany last year... Can't remember him complaining about the Chinese Gp in 08... Poor Massa Baby!

Ranger
30th April 2011, 14:55
I don't think he was beaten soundly...

Had he not gotten the penalty in Monaco or rammed by Hamilton and even those "team orders" in China... Where would he be in the championship? Do some math :)

Yep, soundly beaten indeed.

How many fastest laps did he set? How many Massa?
At the end of the day neither man was champion, and second is still the first loser :)

Massa:
- Spun out from 2nd in Malaysia. Minus 8.
- British Grand Prix. Was off the pace the whole weekend, atrocious in race. Slipped from probable midfield result to 13th. Minus 2 points.
- Japanese GP, was a bit of a wrecking ball. Slipped from a probable 3rd to 7th. Minus 4 points.

Points lost due to own fault: 14.

- Blew out of guaranteed victory 3 laps from the end. Minus 10 points.
- Singapore Fuel Hose incident and resulting drive-through from the lead. Minus 10 points. (He was leading comfortably)

Points lost not due to his own fault: 20.

Raikkonen:
- Crashed into Sutil from 5th in Monaco. No points. Minus 4.
- Crashed into wall in Singapore from 4th. Minus 5 points.
- Spun out of 2nd in Spa. Minus 8 points.

Points lost due to own fault: 17.

- Taken out by Hamilton in Montreal. Minus 6-10 points. (Generous, he was only in front due to the pit lane rules at the time, did not look like winning at all)
- Team error at Monaco dropped him from 2nd to 5th. Minus 4.

Points lost not due to own fault: 10-14 points.

So, best case scenario:

Points lost due to own error: FM 14 - KR 17. (About the same)
Points lost due to error not of their own fault: FM 20 - KR 17 (About the same as well)

So, they both lost the same amount of points due to errors both of their own making and by others.

Points:
Massa: 97
Raikkonen: 75

So where'd those 22 points come from?

Also:

Wins:
Massa: 6
Raikkonen: 2
Poles:
Massa: 6
Raikkonen: 2
Fastest Laps:
Massa: 3
Raikkonen: 10.

There's your maths.

I don't expect you to accept it but there they are.


2009 was a weird season and I will say you can't judge *anyone* by that season. We all saw what happened to everyone who showed up Ferrari after his departure... But Kimi did get a win, which I don't think Massa would have been able to do.

Based on what?

At the end of Germany, Massa had 22 points, Kimi had 10.

I was a big Raikkonen fan in '05-'06 but, hard as it was to eventually admit, Massa had the measure of him and then some.


I just remembered how Massa baby had tears in his eyes in Brasil in 2007. And him being a little bitch in Germany last year... Can't remember him complaining about the Chinese Gp in 08... Poor Massa Baby!

You ignored Brazil 2007, conveniently.

Mia 01
30th April 2011, 22:03
OK. Then Massa must be a much better driver than Kimi, but the same Massa is beaten of Alonso. Their we are, Alonso is a much better driver than Kimi ever was.

Then where is his WDC, Kimi got one the first year in Ferrari. This year so far it seems as Massa will beat Alonso.

donKey jote
2nd May 2011, 23:00
Then where is his WDC, Kimi got one the first year in Ferrari.
2007, the year McLaren self-destructed... I for one was very pleased he got lucky (i.e. Ham choked :p ) in the last 2 races :up: :erm: :arrows:

I was also a bit disappointed Alonso didn't get lucky (mainly due to strategy) last year in the last race, but hey I managed to get over it after about 2 seconds ;)

SGWilko
3rd May 2011, 09:40
Alonso didn't get lucky (mainly due to strategy) last year in the last race, but hey I managed to get over it after about 2 seconds ;)

And here was me thinking Alonso called the shots RE strategy - being that good n'all ;)

Perhaps that was a muffled choke, necessary while the search for his mojo continues...... :laugh:

DexDexter
3rd May 2011, 11:45
Massa:
- Spun out from 2nd in Malaysia. Minus 8.
- British Grand Prix. Was off the pace the whole weekend, atrocious in race. Slipped from probable midfield result to 13th. Minus 2 points.
- Japanese GP, was a bit of a wrecking ball. Slipped from a probable 3rd to 7th. Minus 4 points.

Points lost due to own fault: 14.

- Blew out of guaranteed victory 3 laps from the end. Minus 10 points.
- Singapore Fuel Hose incident and resulting drive-through from the lead. Minus 10 points. (He was leading comfortably)

Points lost not due to his own fault: 20.

Raikkonen:
- Crashed into Sutil from 5th in Monaco. No points. Minus 4.
- Crashed into wall in Singapore from 4th. Minus 5 points.
- Spun out of 2nd in Spa. Minus 8 points.

Points lost due to own fault: 17.

- Taken out by Hamilton in Montreal. Minus 6-10 points. (Generous, he was only in front due to the pit lane rules at the time, did not look like winning at all)
- Team error at Monaco dropped him from 2nd to 5th. Minus 4.

Points lost not due to own fault: 10-14 points.

So, best case scenario:

Points lost due to own error: FM 14 - KR 17. (About the same)
Points lost due to error not of their own fault: FM 20 - KR 17 (About the same as well)

So, they both lost the same amount of points due to errors both of their own making and by others.

Points:
Massa: 97
Raikkonen: 75

So where'd those 22 points come from?

Also:

Wins:
Massa: 6
Raikkonen: 2
Poles:
Massa: 6
Raikkonen: 2
Fastest Laps:
Massa: 3
Raikkonen: 10.

There's your maths.

I don't expect you to accept it but there they are.



Based on what?

At the end of Germany, Massa had 22 points, Kimi had 10.

I was a big Raikkonen fan in '05-'06 but, hard as it was to eventually admit, Massa had the measure of him and then some.



You ignored Brazil 2007, conveniently.

Räikkönen and Massa were together at Ferrari for three years during which Räikkönen won the WDC for Ferrari and Massa didn't. I saw the race in Brazil 2007, he was shadowing Massa and would have beaten him team orders or not. Räikkönen had a slump in the middle of 2008 due to many things, car's characteristics being one. In 2009 they were evenly matched with Räikkönen outqualifying Massa more often than not and Massa having a little better time at most races. Soundly beaten, hardly.

As I stated earlier, Ferrari isn't better than it was during the Kimi-era, so we can assume that all the talk about Alonso leading the team and other nonsense is exactly that. Nothing has changed since 2009 except Massa's position has weakened in the team.

F1boat
3rd May 2011, 12:35
Räikkönen and Massa were together at Ferrari for three years during which Räikkönen won the WDC for Ferrari and Massa didn't.

We all know the gap in both cases. Ages ago, Lauda has said that what separates the good driver from the world champion is... how lucky they are. Kimi is a very good driver, so is Massa. Alonso in my opinion is a little bit better than both. Or maybe luckier. but I can see why Ferrari preferred their current drivers than Kimi...

ioan
3rd May 2011, 19:41
Räikkönen and Massa were together at Ferrari for three years during which Räikkönen won the WDC for Ferrari and Massa didn't.

I wonder how is to see the world in black and white?!

Mia 01
3rd May 2011, 21:53
I sureley hope that Alonso wins a race this year even if he is driving a less car. Kimi did that.

mhaba
4th May 2011, 07:36
Maybe that´s the way to be as a driver in the same level as Kimi ...

DexDexter
4th May 2011, 08:43
I wonder how is to see the world in black and white?!

Or to see a world which is based on facts and statistics, not ice cream and personal character.

donKey jote
8th May 2011, 18:22
I sureley hope that Alonso wins a race this year even if he is driving a less car. Kimi did that.

Alonso drove good today at last. Almost as good as Kimi might have done, had not big bad boo man Santander kicked him out :bigcry: