Recommendations wanted for first time car buyer

[52Paddy]

I'm looking to buy a car in the next few weeks. Due to strict financial constraints, I will only be able to afford a 1.0 litre engine. I would like if you can post some recommendations on the UK car market (this is much the same as Ireland). My limit is about €800 (and prices cheaper than this will be factored into account as I am a full time student). What do I need the car for? I will be doing a lot of travelling around the country for field recordings and interviews for a music project I'm undertaking, as well as more domestic reasons. Also, I want to get in as much practice as I can before I do my driving test (coming up soon). The following list of cars are ones I've been mostly considering:

HIGHLY - Seat Ibiza, Peugeot 106, Opel Corsa
OTHER - Volkswagon Polo, Citroen Saxo, Ford Fiesta

If any of you have experience of the above cars, please let me know the pros and cons you realised. And, if you can suggest any alternative cars, I'd be open to considering something else.

Thank you :)

[GridGirl]

Does it strictly need to be 1.0l? I used to have a 1.1l Pug 206 'Look' which was a nice little run around. Mine was a 2002 but I'd guess if you were looking at something slightly older you could maybe pick one up in your price range.

[Mark]

Problem is for £800 you won't get a car which is going to be reliable enough to go all around the country. Locally; fair enough.

Of course your main problem is not going to be the cost of the car but the cost of the insurance!

[A.F.F.]

HIGHLY - Seat Ibiza, Peugeot 106, Opel Corsa
OTHER - Volkswagon Polo, Citroen Saxo, Ford Fiesta

If any of you have experience of the above cars, please let me know the pros and cons you realised. And, if you can suggest any alternative cars, I'd be open to considering something else.

Thank you :)

I don't think there are enough female members in this forum to tell you about those cars :D

[schmenke]

Finally giving up on your bicycle Paddy? :p : ;)

[Roamy]

I'm looking to buy a car in the next few weeks. Due to strict financial constraints, I will only be able to afford a 1.0 litre engine. I would like if you can post some recommendations on the UK car market (this is much the same as Ireland). My limit is about €800 (and prices cheaper than this will be factored into account as I am a full time student). What do I need the car for? I will be doing a lot of travelling around the country for field recordings and interviews for a music project I'm undertaking, as well as more domestic reasons. Also, I want to get in as much practice as I can before I do my driving test (coming up soon). The following list of cars are ones I've been mostly considering:

HIGHLY - Seat Ibiza, Peugeot 106, Opel Corsa
OTHER - Volkswagon Polo, Citroen Saxo, Ford Fiesta

If any of you have experience of the above cars, please let me know the pros and cons you realised. And, if you can suggest any alternative cars, I'd be open to considering something else.

Thank you :)

Well Paddy where I come from we would bury that sh!t. But at 10 bucks a gallon go with the best looking with the best mileage !

[Rollo]

Well Paddy where I come from we would bury that sh!t.

I would bury your small car as well in America. How you can turn a car which was one point short of being the 2009 European Car of the Year into something horrible is totally beyond me until I read this:

http://jalopnik.com/#!5774473/ford-quietly-replacing-fiesta-transmissions-on-owner-complaints
But Ford's now facing a growing number of complaints about the Fiesta's new dual-clutch automatic transmission set to go into other Ford models as well.
...
the Powershift six-speed automatic transmission built at a Ford-Gertrag joint venture in Mexico.

Ahah, Mexican quality build! (Jeremy Clarkson would be pleased to hear that he's been vindicated.)
Then again American did manage to turn the Astra into the Cobalt, the Suzuki Swift into the Geo Metro and beat the 1999 European Car of the Year violently about the place with the ugly stick until you got the North American Ford Focus.
Given all of that, I'd be suspicious of small cars in America as well.

[ioan]

Don't buy a car unless you really have the means to keep up with it's financial requirements. And I am very serious about this, save yourself the headache.

[52Paddy]

Does it strictly need to be 1.0l? I used to have a 1.1l Pug 206 'Look' which was a nice little run around. Mine was a 2002 but I'd guess if you were looking at something slightly older you could maybe pick one up in your price range.

You'd be surprised that an increase of even 100cc loads a couple of hundred euros onto the insurance.

[52Paddy]

Problem is for £800 you won't get a car which is going to be reliable enough to go all around the country. Locally; fair enough.

I'm aware of this but the country is small with a decent road network. I'm sure I can find something that will last me until I get enough money to buy something bigger.


Of course your main problem is not going to be the cost of the car but the cost of the insurance!

I found a good quote on insurance for first time drivers that have taken driving lessons :)

[52Paddy]

I don't think there are enough female members in this forum to tell you about those cars :D

We all have to start somewhere :p :


Finally giving up on your bicycle Paddy?

Yes and no. I do plan on going back to couriering in the summer but I really do want a car now :)

[Eki]

What do I need the car for? I will be doing a lot of travelling around the country for field recordings and interviews for a music project I'm undertaking, as well as more domestic reasons.
Well, you could get a transport like this and earn more money on your way by playing your instrument at street corners:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/wiltshire/content/images/2007/12/12/highworth_travellers_16_470x350.jpg

[nigelred5]

I wish you luck with your search for a car.

One thing I've never understood is the exorbitant cost of auto insurance in the UK. Everyone seems to fancy themselves as such phenominal drivers compared to the rest of the world. ;) I remember the Top Gear episode where the guys had to pick a car based on insurance. Why are insurance rates seemingly so unbelievably high for everyone? Do you guys play dodge cars on the way to work or something, or is this yet another way the government taxes the living hell out of everything related to automobiles as they do with petrol?

I have a less than perfect driving record( I generally consider speed limits "guidelines"), no accidents of my fault ever. I drive over 30k miles annually and I have 5 cars fully insured, two of which are considered high risk (imported sports cars, high HP/large displacement engines, high repair cost, etc) and I pay $950 a year for my wife and I.

[GridGirl]

One thing I've never understood is the exorbitant cost of auto insurance in the UK. Everyone seems to fancy themselves as such phenominal drivers compared to the rest of the world. ;) I remember the Top Gear episode where the guys had to pick a car based on insurance. Why are insurance rates seemingly so unbelievably high for everyone? Do you guys play dodge cars on the way to work or something, or is this yet another way the government taxes the living hell out of everything related to automobiles as they do with petrol?



Insurance Premium Tax has just increased this year to 6% from 5%. This is paid on various general insurance policies including car insurance and house insurance. Incidentally, Paddy is in the Republic of Ireland and not the UK. I have no idea what taxes they charge in Ireland. :)

[Mark]

And yet car insurance companies are making a loss. The problem is as soon as you have an accident them vultures arrive. Personal injury lawyers, plus repair garages charge a fortune when they know insurance is involved. Plus cars generally being much more expensive to repair.

[Rollo]

I have given this a bit of thought and for a 1L car it occured to me that you probably want something stoically boring yet as reliable as a sewing machine.

Can I suggest either a Daihatsu Charade or the 1st Gen Daihatsu Sirion?

Daihatsu is 51 and a bit percent owned by Toyota and "shares" technology with them. The 1L donk in both the Charade and the Sirion are both derivatives of Toyota engines.

[Valve Bounce]

Don't buy a car unless you really have the means to keep up with it's financial requirements. And I am very serious about this, save yourself the headache.

So true. Your initial outlay is a fraction of the upkeap; check the insurance, rego, tyres, and any maintenance/repairs that will come up. Until you can afforr to run a car, stay with the bicycle and public transport. Sorry to be such a spoilt sport.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Why are insurance rates seemingly so unbelievably high for everyone? Do you guys play dodge cars on the way to work or something,

The UK has the safest roads in the world after Finland I believe. The UK has 7 deaths per 100,000 vehicles, the US has 15 deaths per 100,000 vehicles.

[airshifter]

The UK has the safest roads in the world after Finland I believe. The UK has 7 deaths per 100,000 vehicles, the US has 15 deaths per 100,000 vehicles.

If that is the case (and I'm not disputing that it is), then why would you pay so much more for insurance? Deaths per mile do not always line up with claims dollars per mile, but there must be some reason for the higher rates if they exist.

[52Paddy]

Incidentally, Paddy is in the Republic of Ireland and not the UK. I have no idea what taxes they charge in Ireland. :)

It works off engine size and is there is a standard tax charge, rising for every 100cc on the vehicle. Up to 1000cc is €172 per year.


Can I suggest either a Daihatsu Charade or the 1st Gen Daihatsu Sirion?

Thanks for that. I will look into it, never considered that car.

[Zeakiwi]

How much time do you have for part time employment or busking (playing music on a street for donated money)?

What is the bus/ train network like ?

If the car is the obvious necessity, visit the Ford and the Peugeot service/ spare parts and say hello as you will likely be visiting/ paying them so see who you like the most.

How many cars get stolen in Dublin these days ? Security will be another cost.

[52Paddy]

How much time do you have for part time employment or busking (playing music on a street for donated money)?

This is an option which I will probably use to earn a bit more money. To be honest, I've made out my financial plan and, while I respect all of this advice [from all replies thus far], my question is mostly directed such as to receive feedback on the said cars. If I thought I couldn't afford it, I wouldn't consider buying one :)


What is the bus/ train network like ?

Bad enough. Besides, it's more to do with the amount of equipment I need to move about (recording programs, computers, guitars, banjos, keyboards etc).


If the car is the obvious necessity, visit the Ford and the Peugeot service/ spare parts and say hello as you will likely be visiting/ paying them so see who you like the most.

Good idea.

[Mark]

Seat Ibiza- Yes
Peugeot 106- Yes
Opel Corsa- No
Volkswagon Polo-Yes
Citroen Saxo-No
Ford Fiesta- Yes (if post 2001 model)

If any of you have experience of the above cars, please let me know the pros and cons you realised. And, if you can suggest any alternative cars, I'd be open to considering something else.

Thank you :) [/QUOTE]

[GridGirl]

My younger brother had a Citroen Saxo as a first car when he was 17. He's now 26 so we are talking a few years ago. When he had the Saxo he was continually stopped by the police and asked to produce his driving licence, MOT certificate and insurance certificate. I think we he had around 100 'producer' slips my mum went to the police station with him to complain and the police basically said they kept stopping him because he was young lad and driving a Saxo. My mum made him get rid of the car not long after. Since the he owned a Citroen C2, MG ZR, Civic TypeR and now a Honda S2000 and has only had a handful of producers during that time. Maybe my brothers situation is quite an isolated example but its something to bear in mind. Do similar things occur in Ireland and have they happened to any of your friends driving (similar?) cars?

[Mark]

You're right of course, the Saxo is a typical teenagers car, I think because of the relatively cheap insurance and the ability to modify it.

I'm sure Paddy is a very sensible fellow - he seems it. But there's always the temptation when you are young that your car must be 'special' in some way, which usually ends up making it look and perform worse and marks you out as a 'cock' much more than owning a BMW ever would.

[Eki]

http://www.ibherdesign.com/saxo-body-kit.html

[Malbec]

I wish you luck with your search for a car.

One thing I've never understood is the exorbitant cost of auto insurance in the UK. Everyone seems to fancy themselves as such phenominal drivers compared to the rest of the world. ;) I remember the Top Gear episode where the guys had to pick a car based on insurance. Why are insurance rates seemingly so unbelievably high for everyone? Do you guys play dodge cars on the way to work or something, or is this yet another way the government taxes the living hell out of everything related to automobiles as they do with petrol?

I have a less than perfect driving record( I generally consider speed limits "guidelines"), no accidents of my fault ever. I drive over 30k miles annually and I have 5 cars fully insured, two of which are considered high risk (imported sports cars, high HP/large displacement engines, high repair cost, etc) and I pay $950 a year for my wife and I.

There are loads of reasons.

Firstly while insurance is compulsory the penalty for driving without insurance is about £200 and the police and courts often don't bother prosecuting. I can't remember what proportion of people drive without insurance but its somewhere above 10% and this means lost income and the insurance companies have to pay for people who have had accidents with uninsured drivers. Its a crazy state of affairs given that there are databases both for the total number of cars on the road and for those that are insured so it would be easy to find the uninsured ones. For some reason the government isn't interested in clamping down, never has been.

Secondly the insurance companies don't make a profit from selling insurance, they invest their income in funds. Whats left after payouts is their profit. Problem is that with the stock market crash they've lost a lot of money through their funds and are starting to pass that onto their customer.

Then there are the scams, deliberate accidents to claim insurance money which in some areas actually outnumber 'real' ones. Plus personal injury claims blah blah blah.

Personally I think insurance prices would come down massively if the government treated driving without insurance severely enough to deter people.

If my budget was limited to £800 I wouldn't buy a car since I wouldn't have enough money to keep it on the road. Its not worth it.

[Mark]

Of course there's going to be a new law coming in soon that a car must be insured, unless you have declared it off road (SORN). The same as existed for tax for a while but the only check when buying tax is that insurance is valid on the day the tax disc is due to start.

[Malbec]

Of course there's going to be a new law coming in soon that a car must be insured, unless you have declared it off road (SORN). The same as existed for tax for a while but the only check when buying tax is that insurance is valid on the day the tax disc is due to start.

But the problem has always been the penalty and the inability to enforce the law. If anything I think this change in law will only serve to increase the number of people who don't pay car tax too.

[Daniel]

Mark, why recommend the 106 but not the Saxo?

[Zico]

Mark, why recommend the 106 but not the Saxo?

Indeed, they share probably over 95% of parts with the pug just being slightly better screwed together. (I've owned both in the past)

[52Paddy]

Seat Ibiza- Yes
Peugeot 106- Yes
Opel Corsa- No
Volkswagon Polo-Yes
Citroen Saxo-No
Ford Fiesta- Yes (if post 2001 model)

Thanks. Surprised as to why you would not recommend a Corsa.


My younger brother had a Citroen Saxo as a first car when he was 17. He's now 26 so we are talking a few years ago. When he had the Saxo he was continually stopped by the police and asked to produce his driving licence, MOT certificate and insurance certificate. Maybe my brothers situation is quite an isolated example but its something to bear in mind. Do similar things occur in Ireland and have they happened to any of your friends driving (similar?) cars?

I've never heard of a circumstance on the scale of your brother's. However, there have been cases whereby the make of car has caused a problem for my friends. A handful of them who drive Honda Civics bore the worst brunt of police inspections. The Starlets are bad for this too.


You're right of course, the Saxo is a typical teenagers car, I think because of the relatively cheap insurance and the ability to modify it.

I'm sure Paddy is a very sensible fellow - he seems it. But there's always the temptation when you are young that your car must be 'special' in some way, which usually ends up making it look and perform worse and marks you out as a 'cock' much more than owning a BMW ever would.

Thanks, I like to think of myself as reasonably sensible. I'm not interested in modifying my car or making it a head turner. However, I've still taken this into account when it comes to car selection, hence why a Starlet has not really been considered. I think the Ibiza, Polo and 106 are the least likely to cause curiosity among the gardaí in their non-modified guises. That said, there is nothing to stop them pulling over any one, regardless of car. But, hey, I don't plan on breaking the law with regard to insurance, tax and NCT.

[52Paddy]

NCT - Ireland's MOT.

[Rollo]

I don't see why people would have a problem with Corsa. The Corsa A which was called the Nova in Britain was a fair enough car although it would be getting on a bit now.

The Corsa B had both the Family 0 and the Family 1 engines which basically carry through Corsa B, Corsa C and into the current Corsa D. "What Car?" named the Corsa D as their 2007 Car of the Year.

Certainly every Corsa I've ever worked on has been a fairly dull sort of car, but if you don't care about performance then it is perfectly adequate. They tend to be a little neglected because people don't see them as worth spending a lot of effort on but they're still reliable little workhorses.

[dunes]

carfax,carfax,carfax. then take one for a test drive. beat the fear of lawlessness out of it then buy one that looks just like it.

[Mark]

Thanks, I like to think of myself as reasonably sensible. I'm not interested in modifying my car or making it a head turner. However, I've still taken this into account when it comes to car selection, hence why a Starlet has not really been considered. I think the Ibiza, Polo and 106 are the least likely to cause curiosity among the gardaí in their non-modified guises. That said, there is nothing to stop them pulling over any one, regardless of car. But, hey, I don't plan on breaking the law with regard to insurance, tax and NCT.

That's sensible enough, we're all affected by the perceived quality of a brand.

I suppose a Corsa is ok, just that I've heard a lot of problems with them when they get older and it seems to be what every first time buyer wants, usually because that's what they learned to drive in.

[Bob Riebe]

What are your average yearly insurance dues over there?

[Daniel]

Hmmm ok.

[52Paddy]

What are your average yearly insurance dues over there?

€1800 for someone who hasn't been insured before.

[Mark]

I actually meant to write NO for the 106!

[speedy king]

Try a Peugeot 306 1.9 D-Turbo.... Sounds a big engine but most likely will not be any more to insure than most 1 litres...Was a group 5 when i was 17..and about 96bhp or something with alot of torque and 500 miles to a tank of Diesel...Found mine reliable too

[driveace]

After over 50 years as a driving examiner/Instructor ,you have to go a long way to beat the Fiesta as regards cheap running costs,availability of spares,handling,and reliability.My current 2001 fiesta has done 247000 miles and still runs brilliantly,and passes more MOTs with no work required than it fails!Go for the smallest engine one rather than the 1.25 foregn engine!

[Mark]

Quarter million?! Nice one. My Fester has done 56k and I think that it's finally run in now!

[Arjuna]

Been busy lately.. I think if you need the car for daily driving, small 1.0 liter cars are good choice. Smaller cars usually need easier maintenance too. Not sure whether it can endure and fit for long drive or with more load in it. Small cars are fun to drive, but don't have enough passion. You may feel that you need to upgrade the engine as soon as you know got lapped by the older car.


Don't buy a car unless you really have the means to keep up with it's financial requirements. And I am very serious about this, save yourself the headache.
However I agree with this, headache and fever may accompany each other.. :)

[Iain]

Try a Peugeot 306 1.9 D-Turbo.... Sounds a big engine but most likely will not be any more to insure than most 1 litres...Was a group 5 when i was 17..and about 96bhp or something with alot of torque and 500 miles to a tank of Diesel...Found mine reliable too

And then remap it and run it on red diesel. :D

You're going to get hammered for insurance on your first car, no matter what your age. My cousin passed his test at 45 and he's paying a stupid premium because he's a new driver.

[52Paddy]

All is going well - eventually landed myself with a 1.4 Golf.

[Daniel]

All is going well - eventually landed myself with a 1.4 Golf.

Probably a good choice :) Pictures? :)

[52Paddy]

Here is a basic picture of it. Will be taking possession of it next weekend by which time I'll have my insurance up and running.

[Eki]

Is it an invisible stealth car, or is the picture missing?

[52Paddy]

Is it an invisible stealth car, or is the picture missing?

Ha! No, it exists alright. I'm having difficulty attaching the photos (a caution icon is appearing). They're in jpeg format so should be ok. Will try to get it sorted.

[52Paddy]

http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/2056412

There's a link to the add - you can get an idea.

[52Paddy]

test

[Iain]

Should've bought a horse Paddy.

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