Fernando Alonso lashes out at new Spanish speed limit

[CNR]

http://www.foxsports.com.au/motor-sports/formula-one/ferarri-f1-driver-fernando-alonso-lashes-out-at-new-spanish-speed-limit/story-e6frf3zl-1226013907775


Fernando Alonso warned Monday that it will be "difficult to stay awake" when driving on the country's highways under the new speed limit of 110 kilometres (68 miles) an hour.


"I don't support this measure. To reduce fuel consumption there are other measures that are much more effective than this one. At 110 kilometres an hour, it is even difficult to stay awake," Alonso told reporters when asked what he thought of the measure.

[CNR]

so it is no joke that he has been caught sleeping behind the safety car



At 110 kilometres an hour, it is even difficult to stay awake

[Francis44]

Well it's no big difference.

[Mark]

Well Spain is a big country with big distances between places. Their previous limit of 120km/h felt slow enough when I was keeping to it (74mph). 110km/h is pretty silly.

France already has a 130km/h limit and the government in the UK is talking about raising the speed limit to 80mph!

[DexDexter]

That's quite a comment. Spanish road safety one of the worst in Europe, I'm surprised they didn't have a speed limit before.

[Mark]

That's quite a comment. Spanish road safety one of the worst in Europe, I'm surprised they didn't have a speed limit before.

Erm, they did, 120km/h!

They claim that the new limit is a temporary measure to ease the problems in fuel supply due to the unrest in the middle east.

[Big Ben]

I'm sorry for the Spanish people. It's a shame they have to live these tough years with 'el bobo solemne' as PM. I've just read that they cut speed limits in cities to 40 km/h apparently for the same purpose. It's quite logical actually. If a car consumes the least by standing still than the slower it goes the less it consumes, right? I've read that the new speed limit on normal roads is cut to 80 km/h which in case of my car would fall under the optimal speed/fuel efficiency combo, so I wonder how efficient this measure is overall. And then there is the limit on highways? 110? That's really low. I've just done the other day 1150 km, thankfully some of them in Germany, and driving most of the time over 130 km/h I still needed 11 hours to get to my destination.... 2 or 3 hours more is a big difference. I think Alonso is right and too polite in this case.

[Mark]

It's quite logical actually. If a car consumes the least by standing still than the slower it goes the less it consumes, right?

Of course not, it's nowhere near that simple! Of course a car consumes nothing when it's parked. But after that you need to look at fuel consumed per unit distance. Or MPG as we say around here :p . A car standing still with it's engine running has the worst MPG of all! Zero!

After that it depends on the road conditions, driving style, gearing of the car, size of the engine etc. Certainly with the unscientific tests I've done my car gives the best MPG at around 50mph (70MPG or higher) whereas at my more normal 80mph it returns around 45MPG. The clincher here is that at 70mph there isn't much difference in the fuel consumption!

[Big Ben]

Of course not, it's nowhere near that simple! Of course a car consumes nothing when it's parked. But after that you need to look at fuel consumed per unit distance. Or MPG as we say around here :p . A car standing still with it's engine running has the worst MPG of all! Zero!


:p : That was my point too. I forgot to add the appropiate emoticon which would be :rolleyes:




Some of the highways in Spain are toll highways so with this new speed limit I wonder what exactly are you paying for now?

[SGWilko]

Caution - sad git admission alert.......

Listening to BBC Radio 2 yesterday - there, I said it! On the Jeremy Vine show they were discussing this, and what do we Brits think....

Given that most official MPG figures show best economy at around 56 mph, then 60mph limit makes sense as a temporary measure.

However, some idiot came on the phone to air his views, suggesting speed limits are too slow, and that accidents are caused not by excessive speed, but by idiots stepping in the road. With morons like that in society, you know there is no hope.

My car, I have an MPV as I have kids and we take several UK based holidays a year so like the freedom a 7 seater gives for luggage etc.

Anything over 60mph and the mpg goes down rapidly......

[Mark]

Listening to BBC Radio 2 yesterday - there, I said it! On the Jeremy Vine show they were discussing this, and what do we Brits think....
Given that most official MPG figures show best economy at around 56 mph, then 60mph limit makes sense as a temporary measure.

68.3mph, so it's closer to the UK limit of 70mph really.



However, some idiot came on the phone to air his views, suggesting speed limits are too slow, and that accidents are caused not by excessive speed, but by idiots stepping in the road. With morons like that in society, you know there is no hope.

It's not as moronic as you make out. Official accident stats, those used for the justification for speed cameras and lower limits etc, include such things as pedestrians trying to cross a motorway (which is illegal!) and people jumping off bridges etc



Anything over 60mph and the mpg goes down rapidly......

Yep, but look at it from the UK governments point of view, yes anything over 60mph means you use fuel at a faster rate, but you also pay tax at a faster rate!

[SGWilko]

68.3mph, so it's closer to the UK limit of 70mph really.



It's not as moronic as you make out. Official accident stats, those used for the justification for speed cameras and lower limits etc, include such things as pedestrians trying to cross a motorway (which is illegal!) and people jumping off bridges etc What about built up areas? Children don't tend to think like adults. All these anti speed trap walla's just don't get it - if you're not speeding, you won't get flashed!





Yep, but look at it from the UK governments point of view, yes anything over 60mph means you use fuel at a faster rate, but you also pay tax at a faster rate!

They can't tax fuel once it is all used up, or when supply is affected. A small part of me actually hopes we have a 70's style fuel shortage, so we get to see first hand what it will be like when supplies start drying up.

[Tazio]

At 110 kilometres an hour, it is even difficult to stay awake



so it is no joke that he has been caught sleeping behind the safety car


Yea' and I have the proof :eek:
Fred caught snoozing while circulating under full course caution :laugh:

http://a2.l3-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/126/8bc18faa331245d3931610d29d475f8d/l.jpg

[Bagwan]

Our gas is being served up at $1.17.09 per litre yesterday here .
What's gas cost in the UK and Europe ?

We have limits of 80kph on unmarked roads , with 50kph in built up areas .
Major roads run at 100kph .

Fernando would be in a coma at those speeds .
But , he'd get there .

In reality , the cops won't bother with you in 80kph zones , unless you crank over the 100kph threshold .

Here , we have distances that are much greater with which to deal , and 80 to 90kph is the most efficient way to do it .


I hope Fred was joking , but then , he can afford the gas .

[Tazio]

I hope Fred was joking , but then , he can afford the gas .
Joking about what?
He didn't say he was going to sxceed the limit, only that he did not agree with it.

And It has gone over another members head that he was speaking figuratively about the falling asleep comment. :rolleyes: :)

[Mark]

What about built up areas? Children don't tend to think like adults. All these anti speed trap walla's just don't get it - if you're not speeding, you won't get flashed!

Don't think I mentioned anything about built up areas or children, we're talking about motorways here, no?








They can't tax fuel once it is all used up, or when supply is affected. A small part of me actually hopes we have a 70's style fuel shortage, so we get to see first hand what it will be like when supplies start drying up.[/QUOTE]

[Bagwan]

Joking about what?
He didn't say he was going to sxceed the limit, only that he did not agree with it.

And It has gone over another members head that he was speaking figuratively about the falling asleep comment. :rolleyes: :)

Now , just hold on a minute , Traz man .
Of course he isn't actually going to fall asleep , but don't you think it a bit foolish to make a stand against such basic issues as safety and economy on the road ?

If it was all in jest , then he should come out with a statement that says something like : "It means that I can't drive my race car home from my workplace , dammit !" .

As it stands , he is being portrayed very poorly in the press , with headlines like this .

I get what he says , as I have experienced , as most have , the feeling of coming off the big highway where you were flowing along with traffic at 130kph , and dropping into a zone where you can run just 90kph . It seems like time has slowed down , not just you .

It's a fine line they have to walk in the sanitized world of F1 , where they need to be portrayed as daredevils while still toeing the corporate line .
With the oil world melting , it's hardly smart to encourage the public to go against conservation .

[nigelred5]

Of course not, it's nowhere near that simple! Of course a car consumes nothing when it's parked. But after that you need to look at fuel consumed per unit distance. Or MPG as we say around here :p . A car standing still with it's engine running has the worst MPG of all! Zero!

After that it depends on the road conditions, driving style, gearing of the car, size of the engine etc. Certainly with the unscientific tests I've done my car gives the best MPG at around 50mph (70MPG or higher) whereas at my more normal 80mph it returns around 45MPG. The clincher here is that at 70mph there isn't much difference in the fuel consumption!

I love those fat imperial gallons you guys use! they make the fuel economy numbers look soo good :)
The crap 10% ethanol they force on us here doesn't help matters either. It makes about a 5mpg difference in my car compared with real 94 octane gasoline when I can get it.

Just keep that LOWERING speed limits mess to yourselves. ;)

They have finally made many of our limits reasonable. :)

I have to agree, slowing down isn't a guarantee of improved fuel economy. My car gets horrible economy at 60 mph and actually improves from there until I get above 80 where it drops off significantly again. At 45 mph, I'm lucky to see 10 mpg unless coasting downhill. I do my best around steady 75.

[Tazio]

Now , just hold on a minute , Traz man .
Of course he isn't actually going to fall asleep , but don't you think it a bit foolish to make a stand against such basic issues as safety and economy on the road ?

If it was all in jest , then he should come out with a statement that says something like : "It means that I can't drive my race car home from my workplace , dammit !" .

As it stands , he is being portrayed very poorly in the press , with headlines like this .

I get what he says , as I have experienced , as most have , the feeling of coming off the big highway where you were flowing along with traffic at 130kph , and dropping into a zone where you can run just 90kph . It seems like time has slowed down , not just you .

It's a fine line they have to walk in the sanitized world of F1 , where they need to be portrayed as daredevils while still toeing the corporate line .
With the oil world melting , it's hardly smart to encourage the public to go against conservation . You make some reasonable points, but how is he making a stand against road safety? I also think the headline is sensationalized. (as usual) As for toeing the Corporate line. Shell Oil is one corporation whose line Ferrari is toeing. And as you say the authorities will let you creep a few mph over the limit
However I'm surprised you’re paying over one dollar a gallon in Canada more than I am in Southern Cal. Pardon my ignorance, but what's up with that?
On top of that it’s not cold enough to use the heater, so I only pay for hot water. I can see that this has impacted you a lot worse than me. Hang in there Bags ;)

[donKey jote]

Some of the highways in Spain are toll highways so with this new speed limit I wonder what exactly are you paying for now?

exactly the same as before, a toll road isn't a license to speed :rolleyes:

[donKey jote]

I'm sorry for the Spanish people. It's a shame they have to live these tough years with 'el bobo solemne' as PM.

Don't worry, they'll have the chance to vote him out, that's what democracy is about.
Seems you've been absorbing the negativity of the PP and associated media to refer to him like that... we'll see if they actually have any real ideas when they next get in, as opposed to being against everything on principle simply to undermine the government.
Bunch of donkeys the lot of them. Alonso shouldn't let himself get drawn into making silly comments, as if drivers eg. in the US or the UK are all falling asleep at the wheel due to a 10kmh lower speed limit.
So a 120km trip will take 6 minutes longer... big deal :dozey:

The only issue is how much fuel will be saved by this measure, or whether other measures (promoting public transport in big cities for example, something the PP in Madrid opposes btw, while they're quite happy "gerrymandering" the air pollution meters :p ) might have been more effective.

[DexDexter]

Erm, they did, 120km/h!

They claim that the new limit is a temporary measure to ease the problems in fuel supply due to the unrest in the middle east.

Ok, my bad. :)

[donKey jote]

That's quite a comment. Spanish road safety one of the worst in Europe

That's quite a comment too. :dozey:
Maybe was one of the worst in Europe say 10 years ago (before all the new Europe joined :p ), but it has now apparently improved to a level similar to Finland and would be pretty average ;) :p
http://www.etsc.eu/documents/copy_of_copy_of_copy_of_01.06%20-%20Spanish%20EU%20Presidency%20Memorandum.pdf
http://ec.europa.eu/transport/road_safety/pdf/gis/mapcare10_fatal_2008.pdf
http://ec.europa.eu/transport/road_safety/pdf/gis/mapcare10_chng2001_2008.pdf

[Rollo]

"At 110 kilometres an hour, it is even difficult to stay awake," Alonso told reporters when asked what he thought of the measure.

Oh poor baby.

He needs to come to Australia where we also have 110km/h speed limits... and kangaroos.

[SGWilko]

It always amazes me at railway crossings when you see people turn their engines off for 3 minutes rather than let it run at a couple of hundred rpm. The annoying part is they then take about 10 seconds to start their car when its good to go and hold up the queue.

....unless they are driving a car that does that as part of its green credentials - Bluemotion etc.

[SGWilko]

Don't think I mentioned anything about built up areas or children, we're talking about motorways here, no?










Indeed, I got a bit carried away on the soap box there...... ;)

[Big Ben]

exactly the same as before, a toll road isn't a license to speed :rolleyes:

well... silly me. I actually thought you pay the toll to be able to get somewhere faster :rolleyes:

[Big Ben]

Don't worry, they'll have the chance to vote him out, that's what democracy is about.
Seems you've been absorbing the negativity of the PP and associated media to refer to him like that... we'll see if they actually have any real ideas when they next get in, as opposed to being against everything on principle simply to undermine the government.
Bunch of donkeys the lot of them. Alonso shouldn't let himself get drawn into making silly comments, as if drivers eg. in the US or the UK are all falling asleep at the wheel due to a 10kmh lower speed limit.
So a 120km trip will take 6 minutes longer... big deal :dozey:

The only issue is how much fuel will be saved by this measure, or whether other measures (promoting public transport in big cities for example, something the PP in Madrid opposes btw, while they're quite happy "gerrymandering" the air pollution meters :p ) might have been more effective.

I've made up my mind up about him way before I even thought he could get elected... it just happened that someone form the party you mentioned put it just so right. But this is nor about politics, as I've said before, I don't understand how going 40km/h can actually save fuel and to be honest the whole idea that speed limits could be used to solve the energetic problem seems a little delusional.

[CNR]

And It has gone over another members head that he was speaking figuratively about the falling asleep comment. :rolleyes: :)

for a few manly one with a short memory
i was referring to the past that MS put on him at monaco last year.

so it is no joke that he has been caught sleeping behind the safety car

[AussieV8]

Well Spain is a big country with big distances between places. Their previous limit of 120km/h felt slow enough when I was keeping to it (74mph). 110km/h is pretty silly.

France already has a 130km/h limit and the government in the UK is talking about raising the speed limit to 80mph!

Australia is an even bigger country. Open roads down the east coast are 100km/h with the exception of freeways, which are 110km/h. Open roads and freeways in SA and WA are 110km/h while the open road limit in the Northern Territory is 130km/h (used to be unlimited until a few years ago)

[Big Ben]

Almost half of the German Autobahn has no speed limits and it's statistically proven that crash record is pretty much the same on the unrestricted sections as on the ones with speed limits so I doubt safety is much of an issue from that POV

[Mark]

Almost half of the German Autobahn has no speed limits and it's statistically proven that crash record is pretty much the same on the unrestricted sections as on the ones with speed limits so I doubt safety is much of an issue from that POV

Aha, be careful! The restricted sections are restricted for a reason, i.e. they have lots of curves, junctions are really busy etc, than the unrestricted sections which are generally quieter, and have better alignments. So it's not easy to compared the two.

[Big Ben]

Aha, be careful! The restricted sections are restricted for a reason, i.e. they have lots of curves, junctions are really busy etc, than the unrestricted sections which are generally quieter, and have better alignments. So it's not easy to compared the two.

it's like that saying about statistics and bikinis but then it still proves that speed is not the only issue when it comes to safety. I feel safer and more comfortable doing 150 km/h on a highway then sometimes doing 80km/h on regular roads. And then there's the other factor, like the other day when I drove for 11 hours I don't know how much safer would it have been if I had driven for 14 hours within the new Spanish speed limits and that brings me back to the topic, some might have problems staying awake after such a journey.

[Mark]

Yep, personally I do 80mph on motorways. I find that 70mph is too slow and I do feel myself losing attention. Road safety seems to be based around slow is best, which is true in many instances, as the slower you hit something the better.

But around half of motorway accidents are due to a driver losing concentration or falling asleep at the wheel. It's 10 years since the UK's biggest train crash caused by exactly that issue.

You're ability to react to situations is a bell curve, if you're sitting there with literally nothing to do, when something happens the requires immediate intervention, your response time will be significantly less than if you were busy, were talking fractions of a second, but it makes a difference. They recognise this fact even with train drivers, who can often face long periods at a constant speed and of course no need to steer, but yet need to respond instantly if there is a signal. Which is why they must acknowledge every signal they drive past - even green ones, just to make sure they're alert.

So the Alonso's claim of not being able to keep attention at 110km/h have some merit.

[DexDexter]

That's quite a comment too. :dozey:
Maybe was one of the worst in Europe say 10 years ago (before all the new Europe joined :p ), but it has now apparently improved to a level similar to Finland and would be pretty average ;) :p
http://www.etsc.eu/documents/copy_of_copy_of_copy_of_01.06%20-%20Spanish%20EU%20Presidency%20Memorandum.pdf
http://ec.europa.eu/transport/road_safety/pdf/gis/mapcare10_fatal_2008.pdf
http://ec.europa.eu/transport/road_safety/pdf/gis/mapcare10_chng2001_2008.pdf

And that is with a climate where ice and snow are not really a factor (the far north excluded). You should have a lot less accidents than we do. But it's good that the figures have come down!

I still think F1 drivers should not comment negatively on speed limits, or lowering them since roads are not race tracks and the lower the limit, the safer it is, if the limit is policed.

[555-04Q2]

Most speed limits were designed around old road systems and old cars that didnt have EBD, ABS, TC etc etc etc. Modern cars are safer at 160+ km/h than cars in the 80's were at 100 km/h. Tyres and suspension systems are also much improved today. Governments need to look at improved road networks and car safety systems and increase the speed limits accordingly. The German Autobahn is a prime example that speed is not a major factor in road accidents, idiots behind the wheel are.

[DexDexter]

Most speed limits were designed around old road systems and old cars that didnt have EBD, ABS, TC etc etc etc. Modern cars are safer at 160+ km/h than cars in the 80's were at 100 km/h. Tyres and suspension systems are also much improved today. Governments need to look at improved road networks and car safety systems and increase the speed limits accordingly. The German Autobahn is a prime example that speed is not a major factor in road accidents, idiots behind the wheel are.

The cars have more safety systems but people should realise that these current cars are crushed like flies in crashes of motorway speeds, I mean Euroncap crash tests them at something like 60 km/h, so while speed may not be the factor in many accidents, it will make the accidents that happen more serious.

[Tazio]

for a few manly one with a short memory
i was referring to the past that MS put on him at monaco last year.

so it is no joke that he has been caught sleeping behind the safety car
Well in that case..................
good one :D

[SGWilko]

well... silly me. I actually thought you pay the toll to be able to get somewhere faster :rolleyes:

That you do, but not because you can break the speed limit! It's because a toll road will be less congested, hence you can make up time by actually being able to travel at the safe limit set for that road........ rather than stuck behind umpteen oiks towing their caravans, granpa Jo out for a sunday drive refusing to get out of first gear etc.......

[SGWilko]

Yep, personally I do 80mph on motorways. I find that 70mph is too slow and I do feel myself losing attention. Road safety seems to be based around slow is best, which is true in many instances, as the slower you hit something the better.

But around half of motorway accidents are due to a driver losing concentration or falling asleep at the wheel. It's 10 years since the UK's biggest train crash caused by exactly that issue.

You're ability to react to situations is a bell curve, if you're sitting there with literally nothing to do, when something happens the requires immediate intervention, your response time will be significantly less than if you were busy, were talking fractions of a second, but it makes a difference. They recognise this fact even with train drivers, who can often face long periods at a constant speed and of course no need to steer, but yet need to respond instantly if there is a signal. Which is why they must acknowledge every signal they drive past - even green ones, just to make sure they're alert.

So the Alonso's claim of not being able to keep attention at 110km/h have some merit.

Don't get me started on train drivers - they don't need to steer, have all manner of warning systems, and yet some still manage to forget that red means stop, despite the previous signal indicating the next is amber and the following red with the use of a double amber. Then there's your tube driver, who's two specialities are opening doors the wrong side and going on strike....... ;)

[Bagwan]

Most speed limits were designed around old road systems and old cars that didnt have EBD, ABS, TC etc etc etc. Modern cars are safer at 160+ km/h than cars in the 80's were at 100 km/h. Tyres and suspension systems are also much improved today. Governments need to look at improved road networks and car safety systems and increase the speed limits accordingly. The German Autobahn is a prime example that speed is not a major factor in road accidents, idiots behind the wheel are.

I watched a documentary about car safety , and one man's opinion made an impression on me .
He was the cat responsible for the air bag , and several other "safety" improvements in vehicles .

His opinion was that all those safety improvements of which you speak make things less safe , not more .
He spoke of how the average skill set behind the wheel is modified by these devices to the point that the driver is duped into believing they were better drivers than they are .

The "idiots behind the wheel" are , indeed , the problem .

Speeds increased , but the "accident" was survivable .

Having been involved in the design of a number of these safety devices , he was distinctly forlorn at how it hadn't really helped , and , in a way , had contributed to the problem , so he came up with a device that he hoped would end one of the most foolish of actions performed behind the wheel , the act of tail-gating , or following too closely to the car in front of you .

He had a six inch daggar that he would attach to the centre of the steering wheel , so that the driver would be skewered in the throat if they had to apply the brakes too heavily . That , he figured , would be enough to end tail-gating .


One of our Canadian comedy icons , Red Green , had a caller on his show that was disturbed by tail-gaters , and had a unique solution .
He took an old briefcase and a travel mug , and rivetted them to the roof of his car , making anyone following afraid that they would fly off and hit them if they followed too closely .
Red approved , and told him that he had an old propane tank attached to his roof , and that he never saw anybody in his rear view mirror at all .

[AndyL]

Don't get me started on train drivers - they don't need to steer, have all manner of warning systems, and yet some still manage to forget that red means stop, despite the previous signal indicating the next is amber and the following red with the use of a double amber. Then there's your tube driver, who's two specialities are opening doors the wrong side and going on strike....... ;)

And yet they're paid more than bus drivers. The DLR never seems to have any trouble with drivers' strikes for some reason.

[Tazio]

I watched a documentary about car safety , and one man's opinion made an impression on me .
He was the cat responsible for the air bag , and several other "safety" improvements in vehicles .

His opinion was that all those safety improvements of which you speak make things less safe , not more .
He spoke of how the average skill set behind the wheel is modified by these devices to the point that the driver is duped into believing they were better drivers than they are .The "idiots behind the wheel" are , indeed , the problem .

Speeds increased , but the "accident" was survivable .

Having been involved in the design of a number of these safety devices , he was distinctly forlorn at how it hadn't really helped , and , in a way , had contributed to the problem , so he came up with a device that he hoped would end one of the most foolish of actions performed behind the wheel , the act of tail-gating , or following too closely to the car in front of you .

He had a six inch daggar that he would attach to the centre of the steering wheel , so that the driver would be skewered in the throat if they had to apply the brakes too heavily . That , he figured , would be enough to end tail-gating .


One of our Canadian comedy icons , Red Green , had a caller on his show that was disturbed by tail-gaters , and had a unique solution .
He took an old briefcase and a travel mug , and rivetted them to the roof of his car , making anyone following afraid that they would fly off and hit them if they followed too closely .
Red approved , and told him that he had an old propane tank attached to his roof , and that he never saw anybody in his rear view mirror at all .
Absolutely agree!!!!!!!
I think it has a direct bearing on a lack of cognitive behavior while behind the wheel for a large number of drivers.

[donKey jote]

And that is with a climate where ice and snow are not really a factor (the far north excluded). You should have a lot less accidents than we do. But it's good that the figures have come down!

I still think F1 drivers should not comment negatively on speed limits, or lowering them since roads are not race tracks and the lower the limit, the safer it is, if the limit is policed.
yep.
I saw the footage where he made the comments too, and it looked like he meant what he blurted... 10 Donkey points for him ! :rolleyes:

[donKey jote]

Almost half of the German Autobahn has no speed limits and it's statistically proven that crash record is pretty much the same on the unrestricted sections as on the ones with speed limits so I doubt safety is much of an issue from that POV

In practice I seldom have "freie Bahn" due to traffic or temporary restrictions such as roadworks and the like, but yes, the Autobahn myth lives on :p

Fernando would argue that going from >200 down to a 120 limit (the usual restriction due to noise pollution for example) might send drivers straight to sleep, but somehow it doesn't seem to be an safety issue here either... so >200 to 120 is no problem, but 120 to 110 is? :laugh:

[donKey jote]

But this is nor about politics, as I've said before, I don't understand how going 40km/h can actually save fuel and to be honest the whole idea that speed limits could be used to solve the energetic problem seems a little delusional.
If it's not about politics but about Fernando, note he commented on the 110 idea on motorways, not the 40 in cities (which I agree is neither here nor here).
If he'd argued that 110 was ineffective and gave some reasons well OK, but to argue against because you might fall asleep is simply ridigilis :dozey:

Oh look,it's not just speed limits: (2008) http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2008/jul/30/energyefficiency.travelandtransport

[Mia 01]

Politics, not an issue for this board.

[ioan]

Alonso should get a coffee if he's sleepy and get on with it.

[Big Ben]

In practice I seldom have "freie Bahn" due to traffic or temporary restrictions such as roadworks and the like, but yes, the Autobahn myth lives on :p

Fernando would argue that going from >200 down to a 120 limit (the usual restriction due to noise pollution for example) might send drivers straight to sleep, but somehow it doesn't seem to be an safety issue here either... so >200 to 120 is no problem, but 120 to 110 is? :laugh:

So I'm your new best friend or what? 120 was ridiculous. 110 is more ridiculous. clearer?

Wikipedia says 45 % of it is unrestricted and I've seen myself there are plenty of unrestricted sections but hey... if you commute around your city everyday on restricted sections than the myth must die. The difference is big for those traveling long distances not for those who only drive to lidl every saturday... but why do I even bother. I'm under the impression you are here to practice for the debate team or something

[Big Ben]

That you do, but not because you can break the speed limit! It's because a toll road will be less congested, hence you can make up time by actually being able to travel at the safe limit set for that road........ rather than stuck behind umpteen oiks towing their caravans, granpa Jo out for a sunday drive refusing to get out of first gear etc.......

I never said you pay to break the speed the limit. That's the whole point. Why would you pay to use a highway that has the same speed limit like some regular roads in Hungary.

[Big Ben]

Politics, not an issue for this board.

The whole thread is loosely related to f1 but somehow you missed that :rolleyes:

[ioan]

So I'm your new best friend or what? 120 was ridiculous. 110 is more ridiculous. clearer?

Wikipedia says 45 % of it is unrestricted and I've seen myself there are plenty of unrestricted sections but hey... if you commute around your city everyday on restricted sections than the myth must die. The difference is big for those traveling long distances not for those who only drive to lidl every saturday... but why do I even bother. I'm under the impression you are here to practice for the debate team or something


:rolleyes:

[N4D13]

Not that I'm trying to defend Alonso (this time :p ), but the fact is that the 110 km/h limitation in Spain has gone under a lot of criticism, as many claim that the difference that it would make is too little to justify it, and that it might affect the drivers' concentration.

There are also many who say that the reason behind this is trying to collect more money for fines (as if it was really going to make a significant difference). For some reason, blaming security measures on the fact that the Government might want more money from fines is kind of a very popular Spanish sport.

[SGWilko]

Why would you pay to use a highway that has the same speed limit like some regular roads in Hungary.

You pay to avoid the congestion, to reach your destination faster, less stressed, having created less pollution and using less fuel.

[Tazio]

There are also many who say that the reason behind this is trying to collect more money for fines (as if it was really going to make a significant difference). For some reason, blaming security measures on the fact that the Government might want more money from fines is kind of a very popular Spanish sport.
How funny That is precisly how they payed for San Diego Padres new Baseball facility

[donKey jote]

Wikipedia says 45 % of it is unrestricted and I've seen myself there are plenty of unrestricted sections but hey...
I'm not disputing the 45% (in fact for my commute stretch of 50km it's more like 60%). All I'm saying is that you can't rely on being able to blast it on them due to roadworks and/or traffic conditions but hey... I guess you know better after driving here on one of your 11 hour trips :laugh:

[donKey jote]

Politics, not an issue for this board.

:up:


I'm sorry for the Spanish people. It's a shame they have to live these tough years with 'el bobo solemne' as PM.
:down:

[donKey jote]

Alonso should get a coffee if he's sleepy and get on with it.

just for this once I agree with you about Alonso :laugh:

[Big Ben]

I'm not disputing the 45% (in fact for my commute stretch of 50km it's more like 60%). All I'm saying is that you can't rely on being able to blast it on them due to roadworks and/or traffic conditions but hey... I guess you know better after driving here on one of your 11 hour trips :laugh:

I´ve done it more than once from north to south and east to west but you can´t compare that with your 50 km daily commute :rolleyes: . That was one of the things that stroke me, how fast everyone was going and you say it´s all a myth because you hit traffic everyday on your way to where ever you go. It´s quite obvious I know better. Even your own arguments don´t help you much.

[donKey jote]

I´ve done it more than once from north to south and east to west but you can´t compare that with your 50 km daily commute :rolleyes: . That was one of the things that stroke me, how fast everyone was going and you say it´s all a myth because you hit traffic everyday on your way to where ever you go. It´s quite obvious I know better. Even your own arguments don´t help you much.
Bet that wasn't the only thing to stroke you...

The myth is that it's always free enough to go way faster than the normal speed limits.
Another myth is that everyone drives fast simply because it's unrestricted: you'll find a few travelling salesman types or company cars blasting it, but you'll find many more doing the "Richtgeschwindigkeit" of 130. :)
And you'll also see most keep strictly to the limit where there is one, without falling asleep.

A couple hundred hours motorway on my daily commute per year plus far more than once north to south, east to west in the approx 15 years I've been here... Yes you certainly think you know better. :laugh:

[Mia 01]

F1 and Alonso, yes this is very informative, as usual when he hits traffic approximately around lap 25 the usual race, things get difficult.

[donKey jote]

We now know why: he falls asleep, as Alcatrazio said :laugh:

[ioan]

just for this once I agree with you about Alonso :laugh:

It was bound to happen sometime! ;)

[Big Ben]

Bet that wasn't the only thing to stroke you...

The myth is that it's always free enough to go way faster than the normal speed limits.
Another myth is that everyone drives fast simply because it's unrestricted: you'll find a few travelling salesman types or company cars blasting it, but you'll find many more doing the "Richtgeschwindigkeit" of 130. :)
And you'll also see most keep strictly to the limit where there is one, without falling asleep.

A couple hundred hours motorway on my daily commute per year plus far more than once north to south, east to west in the approx 15 years I've been here... Yes you certainly think you know better. :laugh:

ok. you know better. You are just lying

[ioan]

Bet that wasn't the only thing to stroke you...

The myth is that it's always free enough to go way faster than the normal speed limits.
Another myth is that everyone drives fast simply because it's unrestricted: you'll find a few travelling salesman types or company cars blasting it, but you'll find many more doing the "Richtgeschwindigkeit" of 130. :)
And you'll also see most keep strictly to the limit where there is one, without falling asleep.

A couple hundred hours motorway on my daily commute per year plus far more than once north to south, east to west in the approx 15 years I've been here... Yes you certainly think you know better. :laugh:

Don't lose your time man, Homer knows everything about any other country but his own. And he will not accept that locals know better than him, no way! ;)

[donKey jote]

You are just lying

sitting actually

[ioan]

sitting actually

:up: :rotflmao: :up:

[Big Ben]

Don't lose your time man, Homer knows everything about any other country but his own. And he will not accept that locals know better than him, no way! ;)

Making things up again? I guess this is one of those that you wont try to back up, right?

[Big Ben]

sitting actually

fine. I see I can't have a reasonable discussion with you. You win. It only happened in my head. Everyone was driving very slow actually. The unrestricted Autobahn is just a myth. I hope this 'victory' makes you feel better.

quite a buddy you've made there. did he send you the PM yet? there should be one coming, badmouthing me.... well maybe not now. I've got some about others on the rare occasions we agreed. But it's a good thing after all... I might get involved in a more heated discussion but I always know that if Ioan barges in applauding things have gone a little too far.