Possible protest over "customer cars" could spoil 1st race

[Dave B]

It seems that just while we're all getting excited about the new season, a couple of teams are considering protesting the legality of so-called "customer cars" from Super Aguri and Torro Rosso.

I thought all of this had been sorted? :rolleyes:

Story here: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/57329

The Autosport report is naming Spyker and Williams as the compainants, which would make sense as they're probably the teams with most to fear from midfield competition.

Seems they want a compromise: TR and SA wouldn't be able to score points, or would lose TV revenue.

Grrrrr... just when you thought it was all about the racing. :(

[Shifter]

I was at Indy '05 doesn't surpise me in the least. I want to respect Williams so much but I just can't when he pulls stuff like this. As for the Spykers well they're invited to join the party whenever they stop being poopy-heads.

Anyone have inside info on other teams that might be part of the protest?

[555-04Q2]

:erm: Blame Michael Schumacher :p :

[truefan72]

its so misguided at this point. Just concentrate on driving and leave out this futile and foolhardy fight.

[seppefan]

Blame the FIA for not sorting it. Typical Max M saying that the teams have to protest to the race stewards to avoid the problem. Both Williams and Spyker have to challenge this after developing their own cars. Berger and Aguri both knew they were outside the rule book or they would not have changed the ownership of the design rights. That in itself is an admission of guilt. Also both teams have know all along that they woiuld be protested and I would expect Toyota, Mclaren and maybe BMW to show support.

[Heidfeldrulez]

i can totaly understand where Kolles is coming from tho, his team spent an aweful lot of enegery (phisycal and mental) , time and money to create a new car and even skip 3 whole months of testing in the process, then other privaters get home delivery of "their" chasses.

in a sense Kolles' team starts the priveteer's race being about 1 lap down and thats unfair in my book.

Im not particulary againts costumer cars, but either every team should be able to use'em or none. I will be honestly disappointed with another "yes v10 is ok till i think its not" sort of Mosley desicion, but thats what we can expect eventually cant we

[PSfan]

They should have all seen this coming last year when the Red Bull team exposed the loophole allowing STR to use the Jaguars. I have little sympathy for them now after they did little about it last year.

Guess the bright side is that at least I can't blame Paul Stoddart on the controversy going into the Aussie gp... :p :

[Garry Walker]

I was at Indy '05 doesn't surpise me in the least. I want to respect Williams so much but I just can't when he pulls stuff like this. As for the Spykers well they're invited to join the party whenever they stop being poopy-heads.


What on earth has Williams done wrong? In my view they are totally in the right to protest, its them who are getting screwed by cheating by Honda and Redbull.

for all i care, toro rosso and super aguri could be DSQ, i dont care the slightest about those 2 teams, they are irrelevant.

[Shifter]

It can get sorted out in due time. This 'protesting the race' move, while possibly effective as a means to an end, only serves to hurt the race day experience in the eyes of the fans who paid money and moreover, made an emotional investment in being at a Grand Prix event. So the teams should just race on raceday. I think their arguement is a good one. Thing is, don't look to me to vouch support of it when they're pulling their cars out of a race and making the event less than what it could be.

Of course I wouldn't even care if it was 20 years ago because there were twice as many teams...

[truefan72]

hmm now that I've seen the first practice my thoughts are all over the place. First Super aguri seem awfully fast and probably even better than Honda at this point while Torro Rossi seem really bad much worse than last year ( with Luizzi stinking up the joint..and they kept him?) so there is a case and there isn't one at the same time.

Garry Walker

I Guess Super Aguri isn't irrelevant now is it?

I say, the competitiveness of all the teams is good for F1. Just race and see where the chips fall IMO

[Valve Bounce]

I can only say that the day that Williams is worried by Super Aguri simply shows how far Williams has degenerated sa a force in F1. That's equivalent to Jean Todt and Ron Dennis protesting against Paul Stoddart three years ago; not that they would have contemplated such a stupid move. Now Williams is squabbling over the scraps that the other dogs have left behind. How sad!!

[Whyzars]

Well said VB. I was ecstatic when MW got the drive at Williams but its becoming apparent that Williams he joined, and has now left, is not the Williams of old.

Just another day in F1...

[jjanicke]

It's very unfair to blame Williams or Spyker. The intent of the rules, until the end of this year, don't allow for "customer" cars. Of course all of this will change next year.

However you can't use that as an excuse. It's unfortunate that other teams have gotten away with it in the past (Ferrari and Sauber set the most recent precedent, however from what I understand they didn't start it as they were preceded in the 90's by other teams) and the FIA didn’t do the right thing.

Blame the FIA is you want to blame anyone, but don’t blame Frank or anyone else protesting this violation today.

As I've advocated for a long time it's time for a regime change in the FIA (it extends well beyond F1, "Michelin and WRC" anyone?). Max needs the boot or he'll be responsible for alot more bullsh!t in FIA regulated motor sports.

[Somebody]

Five Live were suggesting earlier on that Spyker were going to protest against Red Bull as well, since neither Red Bull Racing nor Toro Rosso own the IP rights to the chassis in question, that being held by a third, related company [as the intended workaround to let both run the same chassis]...

[PSfan]

Bernie encourages the protest?

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F1: Ecclestone Backs Customer Car Protest

Bernie Ecclestone has encouraged Spyker to carry out its planned protests against the eligibility of the Super Aguri, Toro Rosso and Red Bull Racing cars, we can reveal.. The protests are expected to be filed after qualifying in Australia.

I don’t think we can head it off,” he told SPEEDtv.com. “A team has to do what’s in its interest. We can’t say you can’t do this and you can’t do that. If there is going to be a protest it’s better they do it and get it out of the way.”

http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/formulaone/36051/
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[cos]

Bernie encourages the protest?

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F1: Ecclestone Backs Customer Car Protest

[snip]

http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/formulaone/36051/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Usual media spin. There's no direct quotes from BE on either putting him definitively on any side of the customer car debate.

[wmcot]

I don’t think we can head it off,” he told SPEEDtv.com. “A team has to do what’s in its interest. We can’t say you can’t do this and you can’t do that. If there is going to be a protest it’s better they do it and get it out of the way.”


Wow, for once I have to agree with Bernie! A team like Spyker spends tons of money trying to get a car designed, built, and ready to run in OZ while Super Aguri gets a couple of hand-me-down Hondas and blows them out of the water. If I was running Spyker, I would stop all unnecessary expense immediately and just keep the cars as they are and spend this year running around the back of the grid. Next year, they could use the money they saved to buy a pair of McLarens, Ferraris, BMWs, etc. and move to the front end of the grid.

[Valve Bounce]

Williams used to win championships; one year a Williams qualified on the front row for every race. Now Frank is squabbling over scraps that the dogs won't even touch. This is really really sad :(

[F1boat]

I think that only Spyker is protesting now. It'll be preposteous for Williams to protest, as I heard from the Bulgarian commentator that they gave their gearbox to Toyota (HUGE mistake by Toyota) - they use similar tactics.

[PSfan]

Well from what I have read there might have been a plan to wait until tomorrow to lodge a protest or until the next GP because Frank isn't in Australia, but looks like Spyker have protested somebody, question is who:



A protest is in

The word in the Melbourne paddock is that Spyker has filed an official protest against Red Bull regarding the question of chassis design in 2007.

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns18896.html


Or is it this one:



Spyker protest Super Aguri car


Spyker have reportedly lodged a protest against Super Aguri's 2007 car, claiming that it is a customer car.


According to Autosport, even though it was earlier thought that both Spyker and Williams would delay their protest against Super Aguri, Toro Rosso and Red Bull, Spyker has now gone ahead with protesting only Super Aguri's car.

http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,18954,3213_1992376,00.html

[Osella]

Actually until the last 2 years a lot of F1 teams used gearboxes which were first of all 'off the shelf' then 'built to spec' by companies such as Hewland (in the case of Williams). It is only their seamless-shift system which has seen Williams make their own. So this is not really an issue.

The problem I have with Super Aguri is that they don't even build the cars themselves! (Torro Rosso do) Super Aguri's are constructed at Honda in Japan!

Customer teams are allowed from 2008, last time I checked a calendar, this is 2007...

[PSfan]

Ok now what?


Motor racing-Spyker to seek arbitration over F1 rivals

Kolles said Spyker had sought a 'clarification' from stewards at Albert Park after Saturday's qualifying and been told it was not something they could rule on because the dispute regarded an interpretation of the sport's confidential Concorde Agreement.

"The situation is that we had a meeting with the scrutineers and they basically confirmed to us that it is not a matter of the FIA, it is a matter of the Concorde Agreement," said the team boss.

Asked whether Spyker would now be going to arbitration, he replied: "Yes, this is as I see it."

Any case presented to the Swiss-based Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) is likely to take some time to be resolved and could also involve former champions Williams in support of Spyker.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/UK_MOTORSPORT/idUKB17357620070317

[Malbec]

I don't think Spyker have much of a chance with this one.

When it comes to stuff like this, its not really so much what the Concorde agreement says, its about what Max and Bernie have decided is acceptable.

Red Bull wouldn't have bought Minardi if they had to develop two seperate cars, it only made business sense if Minardi/STR could use off the shelf chassis. RB would have passed this by Max/Bernie before buying to make sure there investment made sense. I'm pretty certain they got the appropriate nudge and wink to tell them its ok.

I think the same is true of Suzuki, he would have asked them what could be done for 2007, and would have got a nudge and a wink in return, otherwise again his business model wouldn't have made sense if he had to develop his own car for 2007 only and revert to a customer car for 2008.

I sympathise with Spyker and to a lesser extent Williams (how did you get into F1 again Frank?) but I think this whole customer car deal was sorted out two years again when RBR bought Minardi.

[A Scotsman]

And it's this that makes F1 so utterly unattractive nowadays. All the legal and technical bickering that goes on now is what's turned me off F1. Simply too much money involved.. All very sad..

[Ian McC]

Well it wont make any difference to this weekends race, I assume it now moves over to the lawers giving them a chance to make some money out of it.

[seppefan]

Who cares about Torro Rosso, it's not as if it is Minardi and needs our support.

[Garry Walker]

I can only say that the day that Williams is worried by Super Aguri simply shows how far Williams has degenerated sa a force in F1. That's equivalent to Jean Todt and Ron Dennis protesting against Paul Stoddart three years ago; not that they would have contemplated such a stupid move. Now Williams is squabbling over the scraps that the other dogs have left behind. How sad!!

Sad that they are fighting against cheating and fighting for their own rights? I hope Williams and Spyker win their protest and SA and TR get banned

[ATF]

Reading what Brundle wrote on the ITV site, I agree that it's better to have four more competitive chassis on the racetrack. He also says "This sport is about excellence and performance, so I would rather see last year's Honda than some cobbled up, underfinanced Super Aguri."

I agree in that respect, but if this is the pinnacle of motorsport, then surely every team should be capable of competing in its own merit.

[cjent]

Opps, I guess this must be the NASCAR Forum. Can't be F1 with all this political haggling, can it?
What the _____ happened to just building cars for the rules and let the races decide how good your car is?
It was still F1 when Lotus built most of the cars on the grid.
Cjent

[blakebeatty]

"Bernie Ecclestone has encouraged Spyker to carry out its planned protests against the eligibility of the Super Aguri, Toro Rosso and Red Bull Racing cars (http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/formulaone/36051/#), we can reveal.. The protests are expected to be filed after qualifying in Australia."

http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/formulaone/36051/