2004 FIA Cup Championship

[slorydn1]

In 2004, the first of the Chase years, Kurt Busch won the Sprint Cup by 8 points over Jimmie Johnson.

The real standings can be found here:
http://www.racing-reference.info/yeardet/2004/W

Jeff Gordon won his 5th Winston Cup by 47 points over Jimmie Johnson. Kurt Busch was p4, 247 back:

The Winston Cup Standings can be found here (scroll to the bottom, right side column):
http://www.racing-reference.info/race/2004_Ford_400/W

Now for the FIA Cup:



001 Jimmie Johnson........................384
002 Jeff Gordon...........................323
003 Dale Earnhardt Jr.....................314
004 Kurt Busch............................202
005 Mark Martin...........................197
t06 Tony Stewart..........................192
t06 Ryan Newman...........................192
008 Kasey Kahne...........................188
009 Jamie McMurray........................180
010 Matt Kenseth..........................159
------------------------------------------
011 Elliott Sadler........................143
012 Jeremey Methfield.....................114
013 Dale Jarrett..........................112
014 Kevin Harvick.........................098
015 Bobby Labonte.........................095


For the 9th time we have a split championship (only counting the real standings versus FIA Cup-the Winston Cup from here on out not a consideration).

Jimmie Johnson wins the FIA Cup by 61 over Jeff Gordon. Kurt Busch slips to p4, 182 back.

The Bud Pole Award Winner is Ryan Newman with 9 poles.

Congrats to Kurt Busch, the 2004 Sprint Cup Champion :beer:
Congrats to Jeff Gordon, the 2004 Winston Cup Champion :beer:
Congrats to Jimmie Johnson, the 2004 FIA Cup Champion :beer:

[Alexamateo]

It's not surprising 3 different systems would produce 3 different results, it all comes down to what do you want to reward.

The old Latford system rewarded consistency above all else. Many times it didn't matter because the biggest winner was also the most consistent. If you think back to the convoluted system of 1974 (never more illustrated by Richard Petty earning more points in the Southern 500 than Darrell Waltrip. Waltrip finished a then career best second, while Petty was 35th. Although no one really understood the multipliers and everything else, No one would begrudge Petty the championship that year in a 10 win season (Cale also won 10, but had 1 less top 5 and 1 less top 10.)

THe FIA system rewards winning and Top 10's, and could care less if you finish 15th or 35th.

The chase rewards consistency over the first 26, and then rewards the best performer over the last 10 races. Kurt won because he won Louden and then reeled off 4ths, 5ths and 6ths (his other 2 finishes were 10th and 42nd). JJ won 4 races and finished 2nd in another in the chase, but he also finished 6,10,11,32,&37.

It comes down to: What does the sanctioning body want to reward?

[Don Capps]

Whatever its faults, real or perceived, the "Latford Points Schedule" was designed to reward consistency over a season of approximately 30 or so events while using a single points schedule for all events in the championship. It is often overlooked that the 1975 Winston Cup Grand National season was the first season in which every event was scored using the same points schedule. It was designed and intended to be a stopgap measure until another points schedule was designed, something that, of course, did not happen for a number of years.

The "Latford Schedule" differed from previous point schedules used in that the points spread between positions changed after fifth and tenth places rather than being a consistent, arithmetic progression down the placings. Beginning with 25th on down, the points remained constant in several of the old systems. The entire issues of the Grand National points schedules is a can of worms, there being several factors involved in the points schedules, the major one being not distance, but prize money for many years. In 1964 Grand National season alone, I found over 30 different ways that points were distributed during a 62 race season. Needless to say, this came as quite a surprise, given that the points guideline found in the NASCAR race programs often differed from reality.

[Don Capps]

A correction: It should have read "over a dozen" different point schedules for the 1964 GN season, 16 to be exact. Mind was thinking "over a dozen" and my wrote something entirely different, unfortunately.

I do have a short breakdown on which points schedule were used for each of the 1964 GN events should anyone be interested.

[Alexamateo]

I know Nascar changed the points system several times in the late 60's and early 70's. Was in not usually in reaction to something at least partially? Several independents staged "Park Outs" in protest of appearance money, so they started to pay points partially based on laps run in 1972-3.

Then Benny Parsons wins the championship with only 1 win but a lot of consistent finishes, so they change it again to the old-fashioned way based on prize money, only with the twist of a multiplier ( I assume to encourage drivers to run in all the races)

That backfired as proven in the previous example given when Richard Petty earned more points at Darlington for 35th than Darrell Waltrip did for 2nd. David Pearson also finished third in points despite missing 11 races.

Then came Latford system which paid equal points for all races no matter if it was the Daytona 500 or the Nashville 420. In essence it said all races are equal for the first time in Nascar history.

Is that the best way? I don't know. If the goal was for teams to put effort into all the races and run the full schedule, it accomplished it's goals.

Nascar's goal with the new points system seems to be conceived with the idea of creating more "game 7 moments", according to Brian France. I just wonder if they have inadvertently designed a system that will enable someone to win the championship with nary a race win. I think it's more possible now than ever.

[Don Capps]

The entire issue and history of the NASCAR points schedules, particularly that in the Grand National/ Winston Cup &tc division/series has received relatively little attention over over the years, especially after the Latford-devised system went into place. Indeed, note that with only the rarest of exceptions that points for placings are shown when results are given for events prior to 1975. I have always found this rather odd, but, then again, at least consistent given the rather shambolic and generally incompetent, amateurish way that stock car racing and NASCAR history is handled. Again, when I dug into the 1964 season, I was not prepared for the multiplicity of point schedules utlilized that season, but I did find them and record them. It was not easy, but had I chosen the 1963 season instead, then there would have been a problem with the resources.

As the issue raised regarding the 1972 to 1974 season and the somewhat chaotic, almost haphazard way that the points systems were changed, that was more a factor of all the many changes NASCAR was undergoing that coalesced at that moment with "Little Bill" France not having a very steady hand at the helm, basically stumbling along and learning by doing. The flip-flopping and indecision during these years regarding the points schedules were simply outward signs of the internal problems of NASCAR as the new boss floundered around a bit.

Keep in mind that the 1971 season was not exactly a season of sunshine and happiness for the GN division, this spilling over into the next several seasons as well, the R.J. Reynolds money and the shifts in NASCAR operations not always meshing smoothly. NASCAR was struggling during the 1971 to 1975 period for a variety of reason, many self-inflicted and others outside its control. It was more difficult period than most today realize.

Of course, the same could be said for the US motor racing scene in general, so it was not just NASCAR. The USAC and the SCCA both ran into difficulties that would lead to serious problems later in the decade. Meanwhile, the only bright spot on the US scene was IMSA, who basically put the SCCA out of business. NASCAR did get its feet untangled by the 1975 season and began moving in the direction that led to what it has been in recent years, the dominant force on the US racing scene.

[slorydn1]

Feel free to put the different points systems up :up: All I was trying to do with this series of threads was to illustrate how a true "Go or Go Home" points system like the FIA system might or might not have changed the outcomes of different seasons-and the Latford era just seemed to me perfect for this comparison. I actually found out that the Latford system wasnt as bad as everyone made it out to be as the outcome only changed 10 times over 36 seasons, and only TWICE in the Chase era (who'd have thought, right?-especially when the full season (I still call it Winston Cup) Champion would have been different 4 out of the 7 Chases)!

But yes, feel free definitely-I'd really like to see it if you have the time!

[Alexamateo]

I too, would enjoy seeing the different points schedules. It's interesting hearing about "Little Bill" not having a steady hand on the wheel. I had heard what many say about Brian France now, was said about Bill Jr. then. In hindsight, he is recognized for guiding wisely. I wonder how Brian will be remembered in 20-30 years.

[Don Capps]

Results Points Schedule
1st 400 500 650 700 750 900 1,050 1,750 2,200 2,300 2,450 2,500 2,550 3,150 4,400 4,850
2nd 384 480 624 672 720 864 1,008 1,680 2,112 2,208 2,352 2,400 2,448 3,024 4,224 4,656
3rd 368 460 598 644 690 828 966 1,610 2,024 2,116 2,254 2,300 2,346 2,898 4,048 4,462
4th 352 440 572 616 660 792 924 1,540 1,936 2,024 2,156 2,200 2,244 2,772 3,872 4,268
5th 336 420 546 588 630 756 882 1,470 1,848 1,932 2,058 2,100 2,142 2,646 3,696 4,077
6th 320 400 520 560 600 720 840 1,400 1,760 1,840 1,960 2,000 2,040 2,520 3,520 3,880
7th 304 380 494 532 570 684 798 1,330 1,672 1,748 1,862 1,900 1,938 2,394 3,344 3,686
8th 288 360 468 504 540 648 756 1,260 1,584 1,656 1,764 1,800 1,836 2,268 3,168 3,492
9th 272 340 442 476 510 612 714 1,190 1,496 1,564 1,666 1,700 1,734 2,142 2,992 3,298
10th 256 320 416 448 480 576 672 1,120 1,408 1,472 1,568 1,600 1,632 2,016 2,816 3,104
11th 240 300 390 420 450 540 630 1,050 1,320 1,380 1,470 1,500 1,530 1,890 2,640 2,910
12th 224 280 364 392 420 504 588 980 1,232 1,288 1,372 1,400 1,428 1,764 2,464 2,716
13th 208 260 338 364 390 468 546 910 1,144 1,196 1,274 1,300 1,326 1,638 2,288 2,522
14th 192 240 312 336 360 432 504 840 1,056 1,104 1,176 1,200 1,224 1,512 2,112 2,328
15th 176 220 286 308 330 396 462 770 968 1,012 1,078 1,100 1,122 1,386 1,936 2,134
16th 160 200 260 280 300 360 420 700 880 920 980 1,000 1,020 1,260 1,760 1,940
17th 144 180 234 252 270 324 378 630 792 828 882 900 918 1,134 1,584 1,746
18th 120 160 208 224 240 288 336 560 704 736 784 800 816 1,008 1,408 1,552
19th 112 140 182 196 210 252 294 490 616 644 686 700 714 882 1,232 1,358
20th 96 120 156 168 180 216 252 420 528 552 588 600 612 756 1,056 1,164
21st 80 100 130 140 150 180 210 350 440 460 490 500 510 630 880 970
22nd 64 80 104 112 120 144 168 280 352 368 392 400 408 504 704 776
23rd 48 60 78 84 90 108 126 210 264 276 294 300 306 378 528 582
24th 32 40 52 56 60 72 84 140 176 184 196 200 204 252 352 388
25th 16 20 26 28 30 36 42 70 88 92 98 100 102 126 176 194
26th + 16 20 26 28 30 36 42 70 88 92 98 100 102 126 176 194
Events 35 9 1 1 2 2 2 1 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 1


Here is the points schedule as actually used during the 1964 Grand National Season, which differs from the one that NASCAR had as the "official" points schedule in several programs that season. At the bottom of each column is the number of events using that points scheme during the season.

[Don Capps]

Here is the points schedule that NASCAR stated was in use during the 1964 season:



Pos Reg $2,000 $3,000 $4,000 $5,000 $6,000 $10,000 $25,000
1st 50 100 150 200 250 300 500 1,250
2nd 48 96 144 192 240 288 480 1,200
3rd 46 92 138 184 230 276 460 1,150
4th 44 88 132 176 220 264 440 1,100
5th 42 84 126 168 210 252 420 1,050
6th 40 80 120 160 200 240 400 1,000
7th 38 76 114 152 190 228 380 950
8th 36 72 108 144 180 216 360 900
9th 34 68 102 136 170 204 340 850
10th 32 64 96 128 160 192 320 800
11th 30 60 90 120 150 180 300 750
12th 28 56 84 112 140 168 280 700
13th 26 52 78 104 130 156 260 650
14th 24 48 72 96 120 144 240 600
15th 22 44 66 88 110 132 220 550
16th 20 40 60 80 100 120 200 500
17th 18 36 54 72 90 108 180 450
18th 16 32 48 64 80 96 160 400
19th 14 28 42 56 70 84 140 350
20th 12 24 36 48 60 72 120 300
21st 10 20 30 40 50 60 100 250
22nd 8 16 24 32 40 48 80 200
23rd 6 12 18 24 30 36 60 150
24th 4 8 12 16 20 24 40 100
25th 2 4 6 8 10 12 20 50


As you can see, it bears little resemblance to what was actually used that season.

* This information taken from the copy of the “Official Program for the NASCAR Grand National Championship Stock Car Races 1964 Season” found in the archives of the International Motor Racing Research Center at Watkins Glen, New York. It also carries the title “NASCAR Magazine and Auto Race Program.” This particular “NASCAR Official Program,” as it is entitled on its cover, was based upon a template provided by NASCAR Publications to individual race promoters and carries information up to and including the “Firecracker 400” run on 4 July 1964.

[Don Capps]

Grand National Race No. 1 / 10 November 1963
“Textile 250” / Concord International Speedway / Concord, North Carolina
250 laps of 0.5-mile dirt track for 125.0 miles
Purse: $6,010 / 400 points (16-point schedule)
Ned Jarrett, No. 11 Charles Robinson 1963 Ford Galaxie

Grand National Race No. 2 / 17 November 1963
“Augusta 510” / Augusta International Raceway / Augusta, Georgia
139 laps of 3.0-mile road course for 417.0 miles
Purse: $50,620 / 2,500 points (100-point schedule)
Fireball Roberts, No. 22 John Holman 1963 Ford Galaxie

Grand National Race No. 3 / 1 December 1963
Jacksonville Speedway / Jacksonville, Florida
202 laps of 0.5-mile dirt track for 101.0 miles
Purse: $4,625 / 400 points (16-point schedule)
Wendell Scott, No. 34 Wendell Scott 1962 Chevrolet Bel Air

Grand National Race No. 4 12/29/63
“Sunshine 100” / Savannah Speedway / Savannah, Georgia
200 laps of 0.5-mile dirt track for 100.0 miles
Purse: $4,625 / 400 points (16-point schedule)
Richard Petty, No. 43 Lee Petty 1963 Plymouth Savoy

Grand National Race No. 5 / 19 January 1964
“Motor Trend 500” / Riverside International Raceway / Riverside, California
185 laps of 2.7-mile road course for 499.5 miles
Purse: $53,070 / 2,500 points (100-point schedule)
Dan Gurney, No. 121 Ray Lee Wood 1964 Ford Galaxie

Grand National Race No. 6 / 21 February 1964
Daytona International Speedway / Daytona Beach, Florida
40 laps of 2.5-mile speedway for 100.0 miles
Purse: $5,075 / 400 points (16-point schedule)
Junior Johnson, No. 3 Ray Fox 1964 Dodge Polara

Grand National Race No. 7 / 21 February 1964
Daytona International Speedway / Daytona Beach, Florida
40 laps of 2.5-mile speedway for 100.0 miles
Purse: $5,075 / 400 points (16-point schedule)
Bobby Isaac, No. 26 Ray Nichels 1964 Dodge Polara

Grand National Race No. 8 / 23 February 1964
“Daytona 500” / Daytona International Speedway / Daytona Beach, Florida
200 laps of 2.5-mile speedway for 500.0 miles
Purse: $100,750 / 4,850 (194-point schedule)
Richard Petty, No. 43 Lee Petty 1964 Plymouth Belvedere

Grand National Race No. 9 / 10 March 1964
“Richmond 250” / Atlantic Rural Fairgrounds / Richmond, Virginia
250 laps of 0.5-mile dirt track for 125.0 miles
Purse: $7,950 / 500 points (20-point schedule)
David Pearson, No. 6 Cotton Owens 1964 Dodge Polara

Grand National Race No. 10 / 22 March 1964
“Southeastern 500” / Bristol International Speedway / Bristol, Tennessee
500 laps of 0.5-mile paved track for 250.0 miles
Purse: $21,210 / 1,050 points (42-point schedule)
Fred Lorenzen, No. 28 Ralph Moody 1964 Ford Galaxie

Grand National Race No. 11 / 28 March 1964
Greenville-Pickens Speedway / Greenville, South Carolina
200 laps of 0.5-mile dirt track
Purse: $5,000 / 400 points (16-point schedule)
David Pearson, No. 6 Cotton Owens 1964 Dodge Polara

Grand National Race No. 12 / 30 March 1964
Bowman-Gray Stadium / Winston-Salem, North Carolina
200 laps of 0.25-mile paved track for 50.0 miles
Purse: $4,140 / 400 points (16-point schedule)
Marvin Panch, No. 21 Ray Lee Wood 1964 Ford Galaxie

Grand National Race No. 13 / 5 April 1964
“Atlanta 500” / Atlanta International Raceway / Hampton, Georgia
334 laps of 1.5-mile speedway for 501.0 miles
Purse: $57,655 / 2,450 points (98-point schedule)
Fred Lorenzen, No. 28 Ralph Moody 1964 Ford Galaxie

Grand National Race No. 14 / 11 April 1964
Asheville-Weaverville Speedway / Weaverville, North Carolina
200 laps of 0.5-mile paved track for 100 miles
Purse: $5,040 / 400 points (16-point schedule)
Marvin Panch, No. 21 Ray Lee Wood 1964 Ford Galaxie

Grand National Race No. 15 / 12 April 1964
“Joe Weatherly Memorial 150” / Orange Speedway / Hillsboro, North Carolina
167 laps of 0.9-mile dirt track for 150.3 miles
Purse: $6,800 / 500 points (20-point schedule)
David Pearson, No. 6 Cotton Owens 1964 Dodge Polara

Grand National Race No. 16 / 14 April 1964
Piedmont Interstate Fairgrounds / Spartanburg, South Carolina
200 laps of 0.5-mile dirt track for 100.0 miles
Purse: $4,690 / 400 points (16-point schedule)
Ned Jarrett, No. 11 Bondy Long 1964 Ford Galaxie

Grand National Race No. 17 / 16 April 1964
“Columbia 200” / Columbia Speedway / Cayce, South Carolina
200 laps of 0.5-mile dirt track for 100.0 miles
Purse: $4,990 / 400 points (16-point schedule)
Ned Jarrett, No. 11 Bondy Long 1964 Ford Galaxie

Grand National Race No. 18 / 19 April 1964
“Gwyn Staley Memorial” / North Wilkesboro Speedway / North Wilkesboro, North Carolina
400 laps of 0.625-mile paved track for 250.0 miles
Purse: $14,625 / 750 points (30-point schedule)
Fred Lorenzen, No. 28 Ralph Moody 1964 Ford Galaxie

Grand National Race No. 19 / 26 April 1964
“Virginia 500” / Martinsville Speedway / Martinsville, Virginia
500 laps of 0.5-mile paved track for 250 miles
Purse: $16,450 / 900 points (36-point schedule)
Fred Lorenzen, No. 28 Ralph Moody 1964 Ford Galaxie

[Don Capps]

Grand National Race No. 21 / 9 May 1964
“Rebel 300” / Darlington Raceway / Darlington, South Carolina
219 laps of 1.375-mile speedway for 301.125 miles
Purse: $40,600 / 1,750 points (70-point schedule)
Fred Lorenzen, No. 28 Ralph Moody 1964 Ford Galaxie

Grand National Race No. 22 / 15 May 1964
“Tidewater 250” / Langley Field Speedway / Hampton, Virginia
250 laps of 0.4-mile dirt track for 100.0 miles
Purse: $4,340 / 400 points (16-point schedule)
Ned Jarrett, No. 11 Bondy Long 1964 Ford Galaxie

Grand National Race No. 23 / 16 May 1964
“Hickory 250” / Hickory Speedway / Hickory, North Carolina
250 laps of 0.4-mile dirt track for 100.0 miles
Purse: $4,490 / 400 points (16-point schedule)
Ned Jarrett, No. 11 Bondy Long 1964 Ford Galaxie

Grand National Race No. 24 / 17 May 1964
South Boston Speedway / South Boston, Virginia
267 laps of 0.375-mile paved track for 100.125 miles
Purse: $4,340 / 400 points (16-point schedule)
Richard Petty, No. 43 Lee Petty 1963 Plymouth Savoy

Grand National Race No. 25 / 24 May 1964
“World 600” / Charlotte Motor Speedway / Concord, North Carolina
400 laps of 1.5-mile speedway for 600.0 miles
Purse: $92,975 / 4,400 points (176-point schedule)
Jim Paschal, No. 41 Lee Petty 1964 Plymouth Belvedere

Grand National Race No. 26 / 30 May 1964
Greenville-Pickens Speedway / Greenville, South Carolina
199 laps of 0.5-mile dirt track for 99.5 miles
Purse: $4,740 / 400 points (16-point schedule)
LeeRoy Yarbrough, No. 45 Louis Weathersby 1963 Plymouth Savoy

Grand National Race No. 27 / 31 May 1964
Asheville Motor Speedway / Asheville, North Carolina
300 laps of 0.333-mile paved track for 99.9 miles
Purse: $4,440 / 400 points (16-point schedule)
Ned Jarrett, No. 11 Bondy Long 1964 Ford Galaxie

Grand National Race No. 28 / 7 June 1964
“Dixie 400” / Atlanta International Raceway / Hampton, Georgia
267 laps of 1.5-mile speedway for 400.5 miles
Purse: $43,420 / 2,300 points (92-point schedule)
Ned Jarrett, No. 11 Bondy Long 1964 Ford Galaxie

Grand National Race No. 29 / 11 June 1964
Concord International Speedway / Concord, North Carolina
200 laps of 0.5-mile dirt track for 100.0 miles
Purse: $4,440 / 400 points (16-point schedule)
Richard Petty, No. 43 Lee Petty 1964 Plymouth Belvedere

Grand National Race No. 30 / 14 June 1964
Fairgrounds Speedway / Nashville, Tennessee
200 laps of 0.5-mile paved track for 100.0 miles
Purse: $4,240 / 400 points (16-point schedule)
Richard Petty, No. 43 Lee Petty 1964 Plymouth Belvedere

Grand National Race No. 31 / 19 June 1964
“Confederate 300” / Chattanooga International Raceway / Chattanooga, Tennessee
300 laps of 0.333-mile paved track for 99.9 miles
Purse: $4,340 / 400 points (16-point schedule)
David Pearson, No. 6 Cotton Owens 1964 Dodge Polara

Grand National Race No. 32 / 21 June 1964
Birmingham International Raceway / Birmingham, Alabama
200 laps of 0.5-mile paved track for 100.0 miles
Purse: $4,740 / 400 points (16-point schedule)
Ned Jarrett, No. 11 Bondy Long 1964 Ford Galaxie

Grand National Race No. 33 / 23 June 1964
Valdosta ‘75’ Speedway / Valdosta, Georgia
200 laps of 0.5-mile paved track for 100.0 miles
Purse: $4,840 / 400 points (16-point schedule)
Buck Baker, No. 3 Ray Fox 1964 Dodge Polara

Grand National Race No. 34 / 26 June 1964
Piedmont Interstate Fairgrounds / Spartanburg, South Carolina
200 laps of 0.5-mile dirt track for 100.0 miles
Purse: $4,640 / 400 points (16-point schedule)
Richard Petty, No. 43 Lee Petty 1964 Plymouth Belvedere

Grand National Race No. 35 / 4 July 1964
“Firecracker 400” / Daytona International Speedway / Daytona Beach, Florida
160 laps of 2.5-mile speedway for 400.0 miles
Purse: $52,200 / 2,550 points (102-point schedule)
A.J. Foyt, No. 47 Ray Nichels 1964 Dodge Polara

Grand National Race No. 36 / 8 July 1964
“Old Dominion 400” / Old Dominion Speedway / Manassas, Virginia
400 laps of 0.375-mile paved track for 150.0 miles
Purse: $5,350 / 400 points (16-point schedule)
Ned Jarrett, No. 11 Bondy Long 1964 Ford Galaxie

Grand National Race No. 37 / 10 July 1964
“Fireball Roberts 200” / Old Bridge Speedway / Old Bridge, New Jersey
200 laps of 0.5-mile paved track for 100.0 miles
Purse: $4,740 / 400 points (16-point schedule)
Billy Wade, No. 1 Bud Moore 1963 Mercury Marauder

Grand National Race No. 38 / 12 July 1964
Bridgehampton Raceway / Bridgehampton, Long Island, New York
50 laps of 2.85-mile road course for 142.5 miles
Purse: $6,475 / 500 points (20-point schedule)
Billy Wade, No. 1 Bud Moore 1964 Mercury Marauder

Grand National Race No. 39 / 15 July 1964
Islip Speedway / Islip, Long Island, New York
300 laps of 0.2-mile paved track for 60.0 miles
Purse: $4,740 / 400 points (16-point schedule)
Billy Wade, No. 1 Bud Moore 1964 Mercury Marauder

Grand National Race No. 40 / 19 July 1964
Watkins Glen International / Watkins Glen, New York
66 laps of 2.3-mile road course for 151.8 miles
Purse: $6,935 / 500 points (20-point schedule)
Billy Wade, No. 1 Bud Moore 1964 Mercury Marauder

[Don Capps]

Grand National Race No. 41 / 21 July 1964
Lincoln Speedway / New Oxford, Pennsylvania
200 laps of 0.5-mile dirt track for 100.0 miles
Purse: $4,640 / 400 points (16-point schedule)
David Pearson, No. 6 Cotton Owens 1964 Dodge Polara

Grand National Race No. 42 / 26 July 1964
“Volunteer 500” / Bristol International Speedway / Bristol, Tennessee
500 laps of 0.5-mile paved track for 250.0 miles
Purse: $21,810 / 1,050 points (42-point schedule)
Fred Lorenzen, No. 28 Ralph Moody 1964 Ford Galaxie

Grand National Race No. 43 / 2 August 1964
Fairgrounds Speedway / Nashville, Tennessee
400 laps of 0.5-mile paved track for 200.0 miles
Purse: $9,380 / 500 points (20-point schedule)
Richard Petty, No. 43 Lee Petty 1964 Plymouth Belvedere

Grand National Race No. 44 / 7 August 1964
Rambi Raceway / Myrtle Beach, South Carolina
200 laps of 0.5-mile dirt track for 100.0 miles
Purse: $3,730 / 400 points (16-point schedule)
David Pearson, No. 6 Cotton Owens 1964 Dodge Polara

Grand National Race No. 45 / 9 August 64
Asheville-Weaverville Speedway / Weaverville, North Carolina
500 laps of 0.5-mile paved track for 150 miles
Purse: $14,525 / 650 points (26-point schedule)
Ned Jarrett, No. 11 Bondy Long 1964 Ford Galaxie

Grand National Race No. 46 / 13 August 1964
“Moyock 300” / Dog Track Speedway / Moyock, North Carolina
300 laps of 0.333-mile paved track for 99.9 miles
Purse: $4,340 / 400 points (16-point schedule)
Ned Jarrett, No. 11 Bondy Long 1964 Ford Galaxie

Grand National Race No. 47 / 16 August 1964
West Virginia International Speedway / Huntington, West Virginia
500 laps of 0.4375-mile paved track for 218.75 miles
Purse: $12,950 / 700 points (28-point schedule)
Richard Petty, No. 43 Lee Petty 1964 Plymouth Belvedere

Grand National Race No. 48 / 21 August 1964
“Sandlapper 200” / Columbia Speedway / Cayce, South Carolina
200 laps of 0.5-mile dirt track for 100.0 miles
Purse: $4,640 / 400 points (16-point schedule)
David Pearson, No. 6 Cotton Owens 1964 Dodge Polara

Grand National Race No. 49 / 22 August 1964
“Myers Brothers Memorial” / Bowman-Gray Stadium / Winston-Salem, North Carolina
250 laps of 0.25-mile paved track for 62.5 miles
Purse: $4,740 / 400 points (16-point schedule)
Junior Johnson, No. 27 Banjo Matthews 1964 Ford Galaxie

Grand National Race No. 50 / 23 August 1964
Roanoke Raceway / Roanoke, Virginia
200 laps of 0.25-mile paved track for 50.0 miles
Purse: $4,740 / 400 points (16-point schedule)
Junior Johnson, No. 27 Banjo Matthews 1964 Ford Galaxie

Grand National Race No. 51 / 7 September 1964
“Southern 500” / Darlington Raceway / Darlington, South Carolina
364 laps of 1.375-mile speedway for 500.5 miles
Purse: $73,825 / 3,150 points (126-point schedule)
Buck Baker, No. 3 Ray Fox 1964 Dodge Polara

Grand National Race No. 52 / 11 September 1964
“Buddy Shuman Memorial” / Hickory Speedway / Hickory, North Carolina
250 laps of 0.5-mile dirt track for 100.0 miles
Purse: $6,490 / 400 points (16-point schedule)
David Pearson, No. 6 Cotton Owens 1964 Dodge Polara

Grand National Race No. 53 / 14 September 1964
“Capital City 300” / Virginia State Fairgrounds / Richmond, Virginia
300 laps of 0.5-mile dirt track for 150.0 miles
Purse: $12,535 / 500 points (20-point schedule)
Cotton Owens, No. 5 Cotton Owens 1964 Dodge Polara

Grand National Race No. 54 / 18 September 1964
Old Dominion Speedway / Manassas, Virginia
500 laps of 0.375-mile paved track for 187.5 miles
Purse: $6,300 / 500 points (20-point schedule)
Ned Jarrett, No. 11 Bondy Long 1964 Ford Galaxie

Grand National Race No. 55 / 20 September 1964
Orange Speedway / Hillsboro, North Carolina
167 laps of 0.9-mile dirt track for 150.3 miles
Purse: $7,000 / 500 points (20-point schedule)
Ned Jarrett, No. 11 Bondy Long 1964 Ford Galaxie

Grand National Race No. 56 / 27 September 1964
“Old Dominion 500” / Martinsville Speedway / Martinsville, Virginia
500 laps of 0.5-mile track for 250.0 miles
Purse: $17,580 / 900 points (36-point schedule)
Fred Lorenzen, No 28 Ralph Moody 1964 Ford Galaxie

Grand National Race No. 57 / 9 October 1964
Savannah Speedway / Savannah, Georgia
200 laps of 0.5-mile dirt track for 100.0 miles
Purse: $3,730 / 400 points (16-point schedule)
Ned Jarrett, No. 11 Bondy Long 1964 Ford Galaxie

Grand National Race No. 58 / 11 October 1964
“Wilkes 400” / North Wilkesboro Speedway / North Wilkesboro, North Carolina
400 laps of 0.625-mile paved track for 250.0 miles
Purse: $14,550 / 750 points (30-point schedule)
Marvin Panch, No. 21 Ray Lee Wood 1964 Ford Galaxie

Grand National Race No. 59 / 18 October 1964
“National 400” / Charlotte Motor Speedway / Charlotte, North Carolina
267 laps of 1.5-mile speedway for 400.5 miles
Purse: $45,685 / 2,200 points (88-point schedule)
Fred Lorenzen, No. 28 Ralph Moody 1964 Ford Galaxie

Grand National Race No. 60 / 25 October 1964
Harris Speedway / Harris, North Carolina
334 laps of 0.333-mile paved track for 111.222 miles
Purse: $4,640 / 400 points (16-point schedule)
Richard Petty, No. 43 1964 Plymouth Belvedere

Grand National Race No. 61 / 1 November 1964
“Jaycee 300” / Augusta International Speedway / Augusta, Georgia
300 laps of 0.5-mile paved track for 150.0 miles
Purse: $9,400 / 500 points (20-point schedule)
Darel Dieringer, No. 16 Bud Moore 1964 Mercury Marauder

Grand National Race No. 62 / 8 November 1964
Jacksonville Speedway / Jacksonville, North Carolina
200 laps of 0.5-mile dirt track for 100.0 miles
Purse: $4,890 / 400 points (16-point schedule)
Ned Jarrett, No. 11 Bondy Long 1964 Ford Galaxie

[Don Capps]

As one can see, 1964 was a very long season with many races. It took a bit of effort, but thanks to the help of Suzanne Wise, the research librarian who is the curator of the Stock Car Racing Collection at Appalachian State University in Boone, North Carolina and the fine staff at the International Motor Racing Research Center located at Watkins Glen, Bill Green and Mark Steigerwald, I managed to track down a great deal of information for the 1964, to include the qualifying and consolation races. Now all that remains to be done is actually write the narrative....

[Alexamateo]

Thanks for posting. Was the determining factor in the points for each race based purely on the purse or were there other factors involved?

[Don Capps]

Thanks for posting. Was the determining factor in the points for each race based purely on the purse or were there other factors involved?

Good question.

The basic, determining factor was the purse, which can be seen from looking at the event summaries. There was, of course, generally a correlation between the size of the purse and the race distance. As I have said, I was not expecting such a large discrepancy between what I found in the general information on points in the program that NASCAR used that season and what was actually awarded in the races. Beginning with the 1968 season another points schedule came into being, but the years prior to that are something of a potpourri and generally difficult to find unless you have access to the racing tabloids of the period.

[Alexamateo]

Are the points just arbitrary? For the bigger races, points awarded are a factor in general of .04xxx per race, but it doesn't hold for smaller races, although we can be sure that 400 points is the minimum awarded. Why does the Firecracker race pay 2550 points and Riverside 2500 points when Riverside has a slightly larger purse? Contigency monies vs base purse?

[Don Capps]

Are the points just arbitrary? For the bigger races, points awarded are a factor in general of .04xxx per race, but it doesn't hold for smaller races, although we can be sure that 400 points is the minimum awarded. Why does the Firecracker race pay 2550 points and Riverside 2500 points when Riverside has a slightly larger purse? Contigency monies vs base purse?

While the method to this madness is not one that conforms strictly to mathematical algorithms, it must be kept in mind that NASCAR always -- well, as best as can be determined at any rate -- based its calculations on the promoter's purse and not the total prize money offered, the latter which would include contingency and appearance and other monies. Promoters, naturally, announced the prize money as the sum of both the purse and the contingency and other monies although some of the contingency money would often not be paid out for the obvious reason that it was posted regardless of if someone won it or not; if no one earned it, it was not paid out. Pretty much a blinding flash of the obvious, but in many cases the addition of the contingency and other monies did boost the amount of prize money that was announced by the promoter. This where things quickly get very sticky, since NASCAR and the promoters were, contrary to one of the major reasons often given by France for the formation of NASCAR, very much in cahoots with each other.

There was a baseline set of requirements that NASCAR required from the promoters regarding the minimum purse and other various stipulations that had to be met -- the major one being that the Competition Liaison Bureau of NASCAR handled the prize money, of course. This is how France skimmed his share off the top and kept the coffers filled in Daytona Beach. The money machine for France and NASCAR was the Competition Liaison Bureau, with the fees for the various licenses and so forth being piled on top of what was skimmed from the purses in the form of other fees.

Anomolies such as those you mentioned are present and could very well be rather arbitrary, but then again there could have been other factors involved.

Maybe.

At any rate, I would not necessarily lose any sleep over this since France and NASCAR rarely seemed compelled to explain much of what they did, especially during this period. My digging into the history of stock car racing and NASCAR and the France family has, on the whole, not done much to endear the latter two to me.

I will see about posting the material on a few of the individual races from 1964 later today or this weekend, but in another thread.