2011 last race at Motegi

[Lousada]

In a joint announcement, INDYCAR and Mobilityland Corp. said that the IZOD IndyCar Series will not return to Twin Ring Motegi in 2012.
http://www.indycar.com/news/show/55-izod-indycar-series/41218-sayonara-twin-ring-motegi/

Nice picture of a full grandstand included.... Another oval gone, but more importantly, is Honda dialing back its involvement??

Also, I didn't know CART raced at a different Twin Ring in Motegi, since Scott Sharp is credited as the first winner??

[Chamoo]

I doubt it means anything about Honda dialing back, but I think Randy probably does not see it as a worth while event, and used the fact that if they give a race to Honda in their home country, they need to do the same for Lotus and Chevy (Chevy isn't so bad lol, due to it's USA status).

I think Randy took advantage of the situation to rid the series of one event it does not see the point in traveling to at that point in the season. Does not mean another event in Japan will not occur at a different time of year. I think the series sees having Japan near the end of the season as a difficult pill to swallow, as it is a real dry spell for media.

Keep an eye out for an Australian event in 2012 to take it's place.

As for the first event at Twin Ring, that is just Dave Lewandowski's revisionist history. He subtly adds in that it was the first international event for the Izod Indycar Series, but leads any one who does not know what CART is on in believing that Twin Ring sat dormant for 7 years until the IRL discovered it.

[I am evil Homer]

Danica's in trouble then...sorry but someone was bound to say it in relation to this news.

[Chris R]

I think this is not a bad thing - the race is a bit of an oddity at the moment - maybe, if it makes sense in time, they can rebuild the "Pacific Rim Loop" of the series and have 2 or three races in a row in that general region...

[dataman1]

I fully understand the economics of the decision. I feel sorry for the Japanese fans, IMO the most enthusiastic and informed fans. I also am somewhat sad for the traveling staff that looked forward to the trip. I realize the vocal majority state displeasure about any long travel event but I believe there are many quiet people who really like the exposure to different cultures.

[anthonyvop]

When your number one backer of your series decides to pull out support from their own event........It Ain't Good.

[garyshell]

When your number one backer of your series decides to pull out support from their own event........It Ain't Good.

Oh, so you have the inside line that it was Honda who made this decision? Got some facts to back that up?

Gary

[anthonyvop]

Oh, so you have the inside line that it was Honda who made this decision? Got some facts to back that up?

Gary

Says so right in the press release.


American Honda and Honda Performance Development said in a statement that "while we have a unique understanding of the business climate in Japan, which made this decision necessary, we wish to affirm that Mobilityland's announcement has had no impact" on its IZOD IndyCar Series programs or its involvement in supplying engines for the next generation of car for 2012.

Spin away!!!

[beachbum]

When your number one backer of your series decides to pull out support from their own event........It Ain't Good.Why? From all accounts over the past couple years, Motegi has been reported as a very expensive race for Honda as the promoter (Honda) paid for travel costs for the equipment, teams, etc. There is very little ROI except in Japan with any TV coverage being in the middle of the night. I watch all IndyCar races except Motegi. I never even bothered to watch the taped replays as the race was often dull and luck and fuel economy played a big role in the results.

From a purely economic standpoint, the race never made much sense. In today's economy, all car companies have to justify marketing expenses. Honda has been open about wanting to cut back its investment in Indy Car as well as other racing series from a purely business standpoint. Look what they did in ALMS.

To look at it another way, the removal of the expense of that race allows that investment to be moved elsewhere - perhaps to areas that really help the series - like engine development. Building all new engines is a big expense for Honda, especially considering they used the same basic package for a number of years with little or no development costs. That money has to come from somewhere.

The only surprise to me is that Motegi lasted as long as it did.

[Chris R]

I have to agree with Beachbum - the ultimate judgement if this is "good" or "bad" will be once we see if this was a good business decision to help further the goals of the series (and eliminate a "perk" for Honda that never really did anyone any good) or if it is just the tip of the iceberg of Honda pulling back..... I think it is the first but time will tell.....

[nigelred5]

I'd also factor in the Honda Japan vs American Honda/ HPD. That race really does little to benefit American Honda. It's football season, in the middle of the night when they run that race. He basically said it makes no sense to pay the bill on a very expensive event. They can probably spend 1/4 of the budget sponsoring 2-3 North American events and get a better ROI for American(and Canadian) Honda. It's no secret Honda sales TANKED over the past couple of years. It's obvious Honda has a budget for Indycar, and developing a reliable and durable spec engine to the new specs isn't a trivial expense when there is competetion involved. They have to maintain their reputation, so the money will go into engine developemnt and supporting the limited number of teams that go with their engine package. As we have all warned, competition is expensive. Honda knows that well.

[Anubis]

As pointed out on Radio LeMans, the fact Hideki Mutoh is now racing in Super GT should give you an idea about where Honda's priorities lie.

[garyshell]

As pointed out on Radio LeMans, the fact Hideki Mutoh is now racing in Super GT should give you an idea about where Honda's priorities lie.

Which Honda? Isn't it American Honda rather than Honda Japan that is the "partner" with IndyCar?

Gary

[FormerFF]

There was something in Road and Track a few months ago about how performance no longer sells cars in Japan. That may have something to do with it.

[anthonyvop]

Which Honda? Isn't it American Honda rather than Honda Japan that is the "partner" with IndyCar?

Gary

And do you actually think that "American" Honda doesn't do exactly what Honda "Japan" tells them to do?

[garyshell]

And do you actually think that "American" Honda doesn't do exactly what Honda "Japan" tells them to do?

Did I say anything at all about them defying Honda Japan? Honda America had little, if anything, to do with the Motegi race. You said:

When your number one backer of your series decides to pull out support from their own event........It Ain't Good.

I am suggesting that Honda Japan (not Honda America the group sponsoring IndyCar) pulled the plug on Motegi, but that doesn't necessarily have much, again if any, impact on Honda America's continued participation in IndyCar. The sports number one backer DIDN'T pull the plug. Their parent company pulled the plug on THEIR race, one that meant virtually nothing to the "number one backer" itself.

As "journalist" surely you would understand how little that race meant to Honda America.

Gary

[Mr. Mister]

What interests me is what will replace it. Bernard says he wants it to be an oval to maintain the balance, but almost every remaining oval in the U.S. that could realistically host INDYCAR is ISC-owned. Outside of the U.S., well, doing a race in Australia/Eurasia/etc. does not make sense at this point when teams will be coming to grips with a transition to a new car in 2012.

[Anubis]

I think the RLM guys were suggesting that whilst the Mutoh / Motegi positions aren't linked as such, they are symptoms of the same underlying situation.

[nigelred5]

What interests me is what will replace it. Bernard says he wants it to be an oval to maintain the balance, but almost every remaining oval in the U.S. that could realistically host INDYCAR is ISC-owned. Outside of the U.S., well, doing a race in Australia/Eurasia/etc. does not make sense at this point when teams will be coming to grips with a transition to a new car in 2012.


hmmm, we're back at New Hampshire, Milwaukee, I'll assume LVMS (?). I suppose they could try Atlanta or Charlotte again since they seem to be playing well with Bruton Smith these days. Then let's see...well, Gateway was shut down in November, Pikes Peak is open again but in a much more low key fashion and questionable local support for a race. Pocono has always said no was no how and i think too close to Baltimore geographically and on the calendar. With the Nascar race the following week, there's no way New Hampshire could handle taking Motegi's date. I would rather see a way to add Road America in August with ALMS, possibly get on the track in San Antonio if that actually materializes. Swap Kentucky with the Motegi date, then race in Austin(which SMS probably won't like) before wrapping up in Las Vegas

[Lousada]

Pocono has always said no was no how and i think too close to Baltimore geographically and on the calendar.

Actually, last year the management of Pocono said they are interested in Indycar. They just installed full fencing and extra safer barriers so that is not an issue anymore. But the track is probably still too bumpy and it might oversaturate the market like you already said.
Another oval you missed is Nashville, that was always a nice race.

[nigelred5]

Yeah, I left Nashville out because it's only about a three hour drive from Barber and Firestone who sponsored the races is fairly questionable about it's future involvement in Indycar. Maybe Dario and the missus can drum up a little support for their "home" racetrack

IMHO, Pocono was posturing a little trying to keep their two NASCAR weekends. I don't see real interest from the Mattioli family. The catch fencing and safer walls had little to do with Inycars, if anything. There has been concern about he backstretch for years, and several cars grew wings last season.

[anthonyvop]

Did I say anything at all about them defying Honda Japan? Honda America had little, if anything, to do with the Motegi race. You said:


I am suggesting that Honda Japan (not Honda America the group sponsoring IndyCar) pulled the plug on Motegi, but that doesn't necessarily have much, again if any, impact on Honda America's continued participation in IndyCar. The sports number one backer DIDN'T pull the plug. Their parent company pulled the plug on THEIR race, one that meant virtually nothing to the "number one backer" itself.

As "journalist" surely you would understand how little that race meant to Honda America.

Gary


Here is a little fact for you.....Honda is one company. Honda America is Honda. Honda is Honda America.

Get it?

Now explain how Honda dumping the Motegi race is a good thing!!!

[Chamoo]

Here is a little fact for you.....Honda is one company. Honda America is Honda. Honda is Honda America.

Get it?

Now explain how Honda dumping the Motegi race is a good thing!!!

You are right, they are one in the same, but they have seperate budgets. If Honda America is short on it's budget because it is building a brand new Indycar engine, that money has to come from another part of it's budget, thus, sending the Indycar Series to Japan each year takes a back seat.

[anthonyvop]

You are right, they are one in the same, but they have seperate budgets. If Honda America is short on it's budget because it is building a brand new Indycar engine, that money has to come from another part of it's budget, thus, sending the Indycar Series to Japan each year takes a back seat.

So Honda, like many other auto manufacturers, decided to cut their budget and the part of the budget they decided to cut was in IndyCar?

So how is that a good thing?

[nigelred5]

What part of Marlboro is still pumping $40M or so a year into Ferrari? Remember when There were two teams in Indycars wiht Marlboro sponsorship? Penske got his money directly from Richmond. IIRC, Pat Patrick's money came from their international marketing.

In the end, you are correct, it's all Honda untill American Honda is a totally seperate corporate company, however one budget does not necessarily affect the other. I seriously doubt HPD and American' Honda's advertising budget was paying the bill on the Motegi race. To be honest, I was suprized it continued as long as it did once Toyota left the series.

[garyshell]

So Honda, like many other auto manufacturers, decided to cut their budget and the part of the budget they decided to cut was in IndyCar?

So how is that a good thing?

The part of the budget they decided to cut was ONE RACE in IndyCar. A race that I, like others here, doubt was part of Honda America's budget. This race had zero importance to Honda America. No one said it was a good thing. What was said was that your implication that "the sky is falling" was ridiculous. What was said was that it made little difference to Indycar, its fans in the states and to Honda America. So tell us, why is it SO important?

Gary

[anthonyvop]

Wow.....so much spin!!

[nigelred5]

Did anyone expect that Honda would continue to foot the bill for a fly away race, contested on a track they own, by a series where the majority of teams will likely be using a competetors engines in 2012? They currently sponsor how many races 5(?), fund more than one driver, a major team in the series and supply 100% of the engines. Chevy and Lotus will need to step up, as will

The series NEEDS to get off the Honda teet.

[garyshell]

Wow.....so much spin!!

Still anxiously waiting for your answer. Why is the Motegi race so important? You're the one who thinks it means the sky is falling. So why is that?

Gary

[chuck34]

So Honda, like many other auto manufacturers, decided to cut their budget and the part of the budget they decided to cut was in IndyCar?

So how is that a good thing?

You're gonna have to show me where Honda has said that they have cut their budget. It appears to me that they have re-allocated portions of their budget from a race in Japan (that it appears did not give good ROI, and no one cared about) to building a new engine for 2012.

You need to explain how this is a bad thing.

[anthonyvop]

Still anxiously waiting for your answer. Why is the Motegi race so important? You're the one who thinks it means the sky is falling. So why is that?

Gary

I already told you......When the series #1 backer drops it's own event it isn't good.

Now waiting for you to explain to all of us how it is a good thing.

[garyshell]

Still anxiously waiting for your answer. Why is the Motegi race so important? You're the one who thinks it means the sky is falling. So why is that?

Gary


I already told you......When the series #1 backer drops it's own event it isn't good.

Now waiting for you to explain to all of us how it is a good thing.

All you did was restate it was a bad thing. You didn't explain WHY a race that had no benefit to the Honda America Division (You remember them right? They are the ones who are the sponsor/supporter of IndyCar) being canceled by Honda Japan is a bad idea. I don't have to explain anything to you, YOU are the one making the ridiculous assertion that this is a big deal.

Gary

[Lousada]

I read somewhere that Bridgestone/Firestone was another major backer of this race and that they pulled their support, not Honda. Who knows what's true about that...

[anthonyvop]

All you did was restate it was a bad thing. You didn't explain WHY a race that had no benefit to the Honda America Division (You remember them right? They are the ones who are the sponsor/supporter of IndyCar) being canceled by Honda Japan is a bad idea. I don't have to explain anything to you, YOU are the one making the ridiculous assertion that this is a big deal.

Gary

Wow

[garyshell]

Wow

And still we have no explanation as to why you thing this should be such a big deal to the Honda America Division.

Gary

[beachbum]

And still we have no explanation as to why you thing this should be such a big deal to the Honda America Division.

GaryGary, I think you know the answer. There are those who are still upset that the other series folded and want Indy Car to fail. It doesn't matter if the logic is sound. If the dead horse can be twisted to be negative, they will beat the **** out of it.

[Chris R]

ok, I m going to take a swing at explaining why this might be a good thing.... Mind you, I think it will take some time to determine if this is good or bad.... First, tis is not Honda's ONLY event. One could argue very plausibly that the home event is actually Mid-Ohio. Yes, Honda is a Japanese company - but this is an American series and Honda has a strong presence in America as both a seller and manufacturer of cars. I would be much more concerned if Honda was dropping the races it sponsors in the USA. Second, for the first time in many years one of the main backers of the series is allowing the series to be what it is - a US based open wheel series. In the Japanese culture this may actually be seen as a sign of respect. More or less forcing Indycar to have ONE race in Japan because of Honda never really made sense to anyone.... All said and done, I say Honda is doing the series a favor by allowing them to concentrate on their core market without the distraction of one race that is in another time zone, away for the core fans, and as such is far more expensive to produce AND gets really crappy TV coverage because of the time zone differences.... I really don't see how this is not a good, solid, common sense decision for all parties involved.... The only loser here is Danica Patrick and her followers who won't be able to wax poetically about her lone win there in following years (arguable another good reason to can the race....).....

[garyshell]

Chris, Chris, Chris.

Be prepared to have your clear logical approach on this to be labeled "spin" by a certain "reporter" in our midst.

Gary

[bugeyedgomer]

the parent company of your primary partner not caring about your product is always a good sign

[anthonyvop]

And still we have no explanation as to why you thing this should be such a big deal to the Honda America Division.

Gary

Never said it was either good or bad for Honda.....

I asked how it was a good thing for IndyCar!!!!

Well?

[Chris R]

the parent company of your primary partner not caring about your product is always a good sign

I just don't see that that is necessarily the correct conclusion to draw.... On the contrary, they could be getting rid of this race that doesn't really fit into the rest of the schedule properly FOR THE GOOD OF the series not because they don't care.... Again, this is all conjecture - it could easily come to pass that this is the first move of Honda leaving Indycar - but the only way we will find that out is to wait and see....

[nigelred5]

the parent company of your primary partner not caring about your product is always a good sign


How do you get that from Honda Dropping a race? They still sponsor 3, have committed to producing a new, likely expensive spec engine for the series and have committed long term to participation in the series. How much did that race cost? Do we know that the teams didn't ASK for that race to be dropped? I've certainly heard and read comments to that effect. even with Honda footing the majority of the bill, it was a huge drain on the teams and a total scheduling and logistical headache.
“We’ve enjoyed a great run at Twin Ring Motegi and thank our friends at Mobilityland and Honda Japan for hosting a great event over the past eight years,” said Terry Angstadt, president of the commercial division for INDYCAR, the sanctioning body of the IZOD IndyCar Series. “While our businesses move in different directions, we will keep the door open for future events at the track.

“As INDYCAR and the IZOD IndyCar Series continue to evaluate their long-term plans, we must look to build the sport and its viewership. We believe it is important that the final few events on our schedule give us the opportunity to be broadcast live during times that maximize our viewing audience as we build up to the championship. We will continue to meet with promoters domestically and internationally that want to pursue an IZOD IndyCar Series event."


my keys- Mobilityland and Honda Japan, not American Honda and HPD
Long term plans- building viewership (poor middle of the night ratings)
domestic and international promoters- I read that as western hemisphere, where races are live during afternoon and prime time evening hours when people watch them, to make them attractive to more sponsors than just Honda.

It's no secret in any circle that Honda was rocked financially by the global financial crisis and downturn in the auto industry. They totally bailed on F1. Honda has never committed an unlimited budget. Who didn't see Honda backing down some aspects of their sponsorship? How many times will a company tolerate seeing a competetors engine win a Honda race? It will happen, and that is a straight kick in the manly tackle. How do you counter that? reallocate your pudget to ensure your engines are competetive and reliable, and you back off of race sponsorship. What's going to happen with all the Honda support vehicles, the pace car, etc? When does Chevy come in and start having a presence? They have to do more than fund an engine. Lotus? probably less likely to provide major series or race level sponsorship. Are they going to want a race @ Sepang? Probably be a better show than F1 to be honest. This race was a legacy of when CART Indycars were an international draw. Indycar hasn't been much of an international draw in years. If they want Japanese buts in seats, they will throw the Yen at Formula Nippon and hav ejust as big of a crowd at a fraction of the expense.

I just see no indication that is a decrease in their commitment. Honda is committed to securing its marketshare in North America via American (and canadian) Honda, with their marketing budget. Providing totally new engines in a competetive environment is no small commitment and that money had to come from somewhere. Maybe start worrying when there are no red hats in the crowd at St Pete, Mid Ohio and Toronto. Who says they won't show up as a title sponsor at another race in this country?

[garyshell]

When your number one backer of your series decides to pull out support from their own event........It Ain't Good.


Never said it was either good or bad for Honda.....

I asked how it was a good thing for IndyCar!!!!

Well?

No one said it was a good thing. YOU, however said "it ain't good for IndyCar". And we are still anxiously waiting to hear you tell us why it ain't good, when the Japanese parent company pulls the plug on a local race that means nothing to the American division that is the actual sponsor of the series. Especially in light of the fact that they (the American Division) continue to sponsor other races and have agreed to be a supplier of the new engine in 2012.

Well? Why is the sky falling chicken little?

Gary

[anthonyvop]

No one said it was a good thing. YOU, however said "it ain't good for IndyCar". And we are still anxiously waiting to hear you tell us why it ain't good, when the Japanese parent company pulls the plug on a local race that means nothing to the American division that is the actual sponsor of the series. Especially in light of the fact that they (the American Division) continue to sponsor other races and have agreed to be a supplier of the new engine in 2012.

Well? Why is the sky falling chicken little?

Gary

Quite the spin-meister aren't ya?

OK

FACT.....A race is Being Dropped
FACT.....That race was run and sponsored by the ICS's biggest backer

Those are both negatives for any un-biased observer.

[garyshell]

Quite the spin-meister aren't ya?

OK

FACT.....A race is Being Dropped
FACT.....That race was run and sponsored by the ICS's biggest backer

Those are both negatives for any un-biased observer.

FACT....That race was run by the Japanese PARENT company of IndyCar's biggest backer.
FACT....That race had little, if any, benefit to the ACTUAL organization that is IndyCar's biggest backer.
FACT....IndyCar's biggest backer has not pulled support for any of the races they sponsor.
FACT....IndyCar's biggest backer has agreed to be one of the engine providers in 2012, singling their continued support of the series.
FACT....The parent company of IndyCar's biggest backer decided it was better to spend the money to develop that 2012 engine than on a race in Japan that meant nothing to the bottom line of their American Division that is the biggest sponsor of the IndyCar series.

The only spin going on here is someone ignoring all of these facts to cry "The sky is falling. The sky is falling". An unbiased observer would look at ALL the facts not just two.

Gary

[beachbum]

Quite the spin-meister aren't ya?

OK

FACT.....A race is Being Dropped
FACT.....That race was run and sponsored by the ICS's biggest backer

Those are both negatives for any un-biased observer.An unbiased observer looks for the positives as well as the negatives. "Spin" can go many ways, based on what "facts" are presented and what "facts" are ignored. Of course, if all you look for are negatives, guess what you will find?

Reading real journalism from many other legitimate pundits, almost all suggest overall this is a good thing as that race made no sense to anyone.

[anthonyvop]

FACT....That race was run by the Japanese PARENT company of IndyCar's biggest backer.

Honda is Honda. Honda America doesn't make any decisions without the parent company's OK


FACT....That race had little, if any, benefit to the ACTUAL organization that is IndyCar's biggest backer.

So they ran it for years for giggles?



FACT....IndyCar's biggest backer has not pulled support for any of the races they sponsor.

So the pullout of Motegi didn't happen?


FACT....IndyCar's biggest backer has agreed to be one of the engine providers in 2012, singling their continued support of the series.

So? Being an engine supplier is a money maker for Honda. Your statement only bolsters the fact that Motegi was a loser for Honda


FACT....The parent company of IndyCar's biggest backer decided it was better to spend the money to develop that 2012 engine than on a race in Japan that meant nothing to the bottom line of their American Division that is the biggest sponsor of the IndyCar series.

One more time.
Honda is the ICS's biggest backer. Honda America is owned and CONTROLLED by Honda.
Lets use your Logic. Honda announced last year that they will be an engine supplier while Motegi was still in the picture. So the funds were there. Now they announce they are dropping Motegi.
Logically that means that Honda cut their ICS marketing budget.


The only spin going on here is someone ignoring all of these facts to cry "The sky is falling. The sky is falling". An unbiased observer would look at ALL the facts not just two.

Gary

Facts are facts. You just fail to see them.

[beachbum]

Facts are facts. You just fail to see them. We get the fact that you don't seem to like the current Indy Car series and can find a thorn inside a field of roses. You are welcome to your opinion and your interpretation of "facts".

I am not sure what your agenda is here repeating the same argument over and over again, but beating a dead horse doesn't change the fact the horse is dead. Most of us prefer focusing on the living horses.

[BDunnell]

We get the fact that you don't seem to like the current Indy Car series and can find a thorn inside a field of roses. You are welcome to your opinion and your interpretation of "facts".

I am not sure what your agenda is here repeating the same argument over and over again, but beating a dead horse doesn't change the fact the horse is dead. Most of us prefer focusing on the living horses.

A ray of sunshine and good sense, isn't he?

[chuck34]

Tony, being a journalist perhaps you should do a bit of digging into the relationship between the different branchs of Honda. You might be surprised at what you find.

[anthonyvop]

Tony, being a journalist perhaps you should do a bit of digging into the relationship between the different branchs of Honda. You might be surprised at what you find.

I have.....I stand by my statement.

[bugeyedgomer]

Now that Honda will no longer be the sole provider of engines after 2011, it will cut back its sponsorship accordingly

[Dr. Krogshöj]

It ain't good for IndyCar. (I dont't think anyone said that by the way.) But it ain't bad either - there are probably more posts in this thread than the number people awake in the USA when the race is run. I just hope an oval track replacement can be found.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Nashville would be my pick.

As for this assumption Honda had turned on the race. Well first off, contrary to what you believe Tony, American Honda almost DOES operate separate from Japan for marketing purposes. Considering Honda makes more cars in North America and sells more in North America than it does in Japan, I would wager Honda America dictates how to market to this market, and since head office probably isn't big on the race at Motegi, it isn't any sweat off Honda America's nose now is it? If they pulled the engines out altogether, your doom and gloom attitude would find traction....but that isnt' happening.

[chuck34]

Nashville would be my pick.

As for this assumption Honda had turned on the race. Well first off, contrary to what you believe Tony, American Honda almost DOES operate separate from Japan for marketing purposes. Considering Honda makes more cars in North America and sells more in North America than it does in Japan, I would wager Honda America dictates how to market to this market, and since head office probably isn't big on the race at Motegi, it isn't any sweat off Honda America's nose now is it? If they pulled the engines out altogether, your doom and gloom attitude would find traction....but that isnt' happening.

No Mark you're wrong. Didn't you see Tony's last response? He's done a bang up job on digging into that. [/SARC]