Pirelli

[Mark]

Apparenty a rival company has been running an advertising campaign based on Pirelli tyres degrading quickly.

[ioan]

If that's the case then why didn't Michelin win the contract?


IMO you are putting the cart ahead of the horses just for the sake of having a fight!
Anyway, how was the FIA supposed to know that Pirelli will come up with such bad consistency tires? :rolleyes:
And Michelin didn't win because:
1. They had a public spat with the FIA in 2005
2. Because they wanted to make only 18 inch tires, the same they use for sport cars like the ILMS ALMS LMS etc...



Define consistent tyres?

Get a dictionary.





Pirelli to alter shape of rear tyres in 2012 in order to improve wear - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/93190)


So, instead of saying the tires we have now are crap they say they make changes to further improve the tires! More hogwash! :laugh:



What marketing backlash?

Read the press, watch the news, heck watch a race and listen to the commentary!

[airshifter]

They were never supposed to supply tires that degrade quickly, it was just face saving hogwash for the gullible fans.
The teams most probably pushed all the time in the background for consistent tires as none of them wants to lose precious points due to crap Pirellis.
Also Pirelli most probably felt the marketing backlash due to the very inconsistent tires.

I guess Bernie, Pirelli, Jenson, and a bunch of the fans started making up excuses before the fact?

Formula 1 (http://www.formula1.com/news/interviews/2011/5/12025.html)

That contains comments regarding Bernies desires and feelings about the Pirellis, including comments about not wanting too much durability.

Formula 1 (http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2011/2/11749.html)

That links points out that the softer compounds will improve performance at the expense of durability, which will make for more strategy decisions. Remind me how many F1 races had taken place in February?

Formula 1 (http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2011/2/11745.html)

Another article that mentions the importance of strategy and tire management. Button comments that it's "what everyone wanted". I guess Jenson was making excuses before the season started in exchange for kickbacks from Pirelli? :laugh:


Well before the season started Pirelli stated they were going to make tires that would require two to three stops per race on average. But they also made it very clear that using the softer compounds in an aggressive manner would cause more rapid degradation and more stops. It seems the powers that be that brought Pirelli into F1 for this season are happy with the outcome.

[Sonic]

It's a shame Pirelli have felt forced into changing the rubber. Forgetting for a moment, the time worn argument, regarding whether or not they intended the tyres to degrade quickly, no one can deny the action on track that resulted was fantastic.

The fact that they are now building tyres that last double GP distances off the back of criticism from small minded fans (you know who you are) and bellow the belt advertising campaigns by other manufactures is saddening.

Ho hum; we'll just have to rely on DRS - coz we all know how fabulous that is :rolleyes:

[Mark]

Indeed. We had fantastic action at the start of the year, down to the tyres and that's now been removed.

[ioan]

I guess Bernie, Pirelli, Jenson, and a bunch of the fans started making up excuses before the fact?

Formula 1 (http://www.formula1.com/news/interviews/2011/5/12025.html)

That contains comments regarding Bernies desires and feelings about the Pirellis, including comments about not wanting too much durability.

Formula 1 (http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2011/2/11749.html)

That links points out that the softer compounds will improve performance at the expense of durability, which will make for more strategy decisions. Remind me how many F1 races had taken place in February?


Everyone was complaining back in winter and you think the truth is being spoken 3 months later? Then why do they feel the need for change if everything is so great for everyone?! care to explain it?

[ioan]

It's a shame Pirelli have felt forced into changing the rubber. Forgetting for a moment, the time worn argument, regarding whether or not they intended the tyres to degrade quickly, no one can deny the action on track that resulted was fantastic.

The fact that they are now building tyres that last double GP distances off the back of criticism from small minded fans (you know who you are) and bellow the belt advertising campaigns by other manufactures is saddening.

Ho hum; we'll just have to rely on DRS - coz we all know how fabulous that is :rolleyes:

:rotflmao:
You think that Pirelli are changing tire compounds due to 'small minded fans' complaining?! I hope you were joking!
:rotflmao:

The pressure that brought the change is from teams and from the market, and that is what matters most in a competitive environment.

[Dave B]

The pressure that brought the change is from teams and from the market, and that is what matters most in a competitive environment.
Exactly, the market is made up of casual fans (like ones who only attended one race and didn't like the noise, bless) failing to understand that Pirelli aren't useless but were deliberately making less durable tyes following suggestions by the teams.

[ioan]

Exactly, the market is made up of casual fans (like ones who only attended one race and didn't like the noise, bless) failing to understand that Pirelli aren't useless but were deliberately making less durable tyes following suggestions by the teams.

:laugh:
Because those who are not casual fans would never ever buy Pirelli?
The excuses for Pirelli are hilarious! :rotflmao:

[Robinho]

Pirelli are awesome, Paul Hembrey is the 2nd coming and I claim my £5

[Daniel]

I think we saw today that a good race track makes for good racing.

[Mark]

So can you finally accept that Pirelli were asked to produce less durable tyres? And without deflecting the issue yet again?

[Daniel]

So can you finally accept that Pirelli were asked to produce less durable tyres? And without deflecting the issue yet again?

You talking to me?

[SGWilko]

You talking to me?

punk......

[ioan]

So can you finally accept that Pirelli were asked to produce less durable tyres? And without deflecting the issue yet again?

I could but I won't. Why should I accept ungrounded claims?

[Mark]

You talking to me?

You? No I never talk to you, you should know this :p

[Daniel]

You? No I never talk to you, you should know this :p

You've tried but I just don't understand a word you're saying :p

[wedge]

Read the press, watch the news, heck watch a race and listen to the commentary!

Links?

Nigel Roebuck has been pleased with Pirelli's efforts

Audio podcasts | Motor Sport Magazine (http://www.motorsportmagazine.co.uk/category/audio-podcasts/)

[ioan]

Links?

Nigel Roebuck has been pleased with Pirelli's efforts

Audio podcasts | Motor Sport Magazine (http://www.motorsportmagazine.co.uk/category/audio-podcasts/)

So what? Should we now believe every journalist.

What about the Pirelli apologetic come up with a link to an 2010 official request to Pirelli to provide a fast degrading tire, not the hogwash served since it turned out that the tires were crap? Then we can talk.

[Hawkmoon]

So what? Should we now believe every journalist.

No. Like you we should only believe the journalists that agree with us. ;)

[Dave B]

I could but I won't. Why should I accept ungrounded claims?

Remember how you boast that "I'll always try to back up" everything you post?

Here's a few snippets about Pirelli for you, so that you no longer have to refer to these claims as "ungrounded":



And pit-stops are likely to prove key again this season after Pirelli replaced Bridgestone as tyre suppliers, with the tyres specifically designed to be less durable in an effort to increase the number of pit-stops.
(BBC News, March 2011 (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/9434143.stm))



Pirelli's motorsport boss Paul Hembery confirmed that Pirelli has responded to the desire that tyre strategy influences the entertainment-value of grands prix. "We have been asked to produce tyres to improve the show," he said. "But if we are very criticised by the teams or the drivers, yes, we will be able to bring to the next race very durable tyres."
(ESPN, November 2010 (http://en.espnf1.com/f1/motorsport/story/35104.html))


The teams also placed demands on the tyres characteristics on track whilst the FIA made requests regarding the tyre’s durability. [...] Hembery reveals “I’m guessing that we will have a number of races where two tyre changes will be required. The wear rate has been engineered to be higher than in 2010. The engineers are different they would like one set of tyres then concentrate on the car but the team principles think differently! It a different design input, we could make them last the whole season, but we also want entertaining races!”
(Racecar Engineering, January 2011 (http://www.racecar-engineering.com/articles/f1/f1-2011-pirelli/))


Asked about the request from Bernie Ecclestone to produce tyres that deliberately deteriorate - a move which caused much flak for the Italian manufacturer, not least from Pitpass, Tronchetti said: "We were asked to create more emotions and we did it, with safe tyres lasting enough but not too much, which is really very difficult."
(Pitpass, May 2011 (http://www.pitpass.com/43533-Pirelli-willing-to-remain-in-F1-providing-the-price-is-right))



Will you now accept what everybody else seems to find simple: that Pirelli were asked to make less durable tyres for 2011?

[SGWilko]

Will you now accept what everybody else seems to find simple: that Pirelli were asked to make less durable tyres for 2011?

Think I heard a sharp intake of breath....... :laugh:

[wedge]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZhrbQL9S5I#t=2m13

[Retro Formula 1]

The Pirelli tyres are providing some great racing this year. I think they have got it just about perfect.

[ioan]

Will you now accept what everybody else seems to find simple: that Pirelli were asked to make less durable tyres for 2011?

I accept that.
Will you lot accept that I do not believe the hogwash?
Doesn't look like it, reading this thread. I wonder if it has to do with trolling around or somethings else, worse than it.

[Sonic]

:rotflmao:
You think that Pirelli are changing tire compounds due to 'small minded fans' complaining?! I hope you were joking!
:rotflmao:

The pressure that brought the change is from teams and from the market, and that is what matters most in a competitive environment.

No. But the marketing campaign directed against Pirelli IS targeted at those small minded souls who can't grasp the difference between a road tyre that is designed for 20,000km and a race tyre that needs to last less than 200.

[ioan]

No. But the marketing campaign directed against Pirelli IS targeted at those small minded souls who can't grasp the difference between a road tyre that is designed for 20,000km and a race tyre that needs to last less than 200.

Or maybe those poor souls have seen the quality of a Michelin and Bridgestone F1 tire, just as fast as the Pirelli or faster and able to run over 300 kms. That's the problem here, no one is comparing F1 specific tires with road car tires.

[Sonic]

But we are not in a tyre war Ioan. I have never doubted that if Stone or Charlietwins were here, Pirelli would be being kicked to the kerb.

However, they have a right to learn their craft without their efforts being lambasted. They have not built sub par or dangerous tyres, and, whether planned or not, the rubber has created good racing.

In short...I don't see what your problem is.

[Bagwan]

This is from Autoevolution :

Marco Tronchetti presents the new Pirelli F1 tire
In an effort to boost the show in Formula One a little bit, new tire supplier Pirelli is set to introduce tires that will make for multiple pit stop strategies in 2011. According to a report from Italian magazine Autosprint, the new compound tires developed by Pirelli will require approximately 3 stops per race, depending on certain conditions (tire wear, weather and so on).

Ever since it won the tender to become sole F1 supplier for the upcoming 3 years, the Italian tire maker has vowed to improve the F1 show by developing more aggressive tires for 2011.

Additionally, the Formula One Teams Association (FOTA) has held all the necessary discussions with Pirelli to design such tires, with the Autosprint report suggesting that the new hard compound will last for approximately 30 laps. Considering that the top 10 drivers on the grid will start off with the tires used in Q3, that would easily ensure at least 2 pit stops per driver every other weekend.

Meanwhile, Pirelli is on its way to finalizing the development of its 2011 compounds by doing a 2-day wet session, at night, on the Yas Marina circuit in Abu Dhabi. Spanish driver Pedro de la Rosa has already done some mileage in the 2009-spec Toyota (Pirelli test car) last night and is scheduled to complete the Abu Dhabi programme later today.

The weather and track conditions in Abu Dhabi this week have been carefully evaluated by Pirelli in order for them to complete the development of their wet and intermediate tires. This is the manufacturer's last session before the first group test of the winter, to kick off on February 1st, yet Pirelli's motorsport director Paul Hembery admitted further changes may occur in terms of tire development following the 4 group tests in February and March.

“These tests will provide us with useful information to finalize our tire development process for Formula One,” said Hembery.

[Bagwan]

This is from Autoevolution :

"In an effort to boost the show in Formula One a little bit, new tire supplier Pirelli is set to introduce tires that will make for multiple pit stop strategies in 2011. According to a report from Italian magazine Autosprint, the new compound tires developed by Pirelli will require approximately 3 stops per race, depending on certain conditions (tire wear, weather and so on).

Ever since it won the tender to become sole F1 supplier for the upcoming 3 years, the Italian tire maker has vowed to improve the F1 show by developing more aggressive tires for 2011.

Additionally, the Formula One Teams Association (FOTA) has held all the necessary discussions with Pirelli to design such tires, with the Autosprint report suggesting that the new hard compound will last for approximately 30 laps. Considering that the top 10 drivers on the grid will start off with the tires used in Q3, that would easily ensure at least 2 pit stops per driver every other weekend.

Meanwhile, Pirelli is on its way to finalizing the development of its 2011 compounds by doing a 2-day wet session, at night, on the Yas Marina circuit in Abu Dhabi. Spanish driver Pedro de la Rosa has already done some mileage in the 2009-spec Toyota (Pirelli test car) last night and is scheduled to complete the Abu Dhabi programme later today.

The weather and track conditions in Abu Dhabi this week have been carefully evaluated by Pirelli in order for them to complete the development of their wet and intermediate tires. This is the manufacturer's last session before the first group test of the winter, to kick off on February 1st, yet Pirelli's motorsport director Paul Hembery admitted further changes may occur in terms of tire development following the 4 group tests in February and March.

“These tests will provide us with useful information to finalize our tire development process for Formula One,” said Hembery."

[ioan]

Well the new 'hard tire' did hold as much as the soft ones until recently so much about the planed 30 laps.

[Bagwan]

Could you fix that last post , my friend .
I didn't understand your point there .

[airshifter]

If numerous links and quotes that happened before the season start aren't enough, I'm more than happy to accept that Ioan simply chooses to follow the untrue version of reality. :)

It's well documented what Pirelli were asked to do, and it was before the start of the season.

[Hawkmoon]

I accept that.
Will you lot accept that I do not believe the hogwash?
Doesn't look like it, reading this thread. I wonder if it has to do with trolling around or somethings else, worse than it.

So you accept that Pirelli were asked to make less durable tyres but you won't believe it because it's "hogwash"? :confused:

[Dave B]

So you accept that Pirelli were asked to make less durable tyres but you won't believe it because it's "hogwash"? :confused:

I'm confused too. It's not difficult, is it? Pirelli were asked to make less durable racing tyres, which they did. Some people couldn't follow the more complicated race strategies which we saw at the beginning of the season. Some people couldn't understand the concept that it doesn't automatically mean their road tyres are rubbish. A rival company exploited this perception. Pirelli are reacting.

What's "hogwash" about any of that? :s

[Sonic]

I'm confused too. It's not difficult, is it? Pirelli were asked to make less durable racing tyres, which they did. Some people couldn't follow the more complicated race strategies which we saw at the beginning of the season. Some people couldn't understand the concept that it doesn't automatically mean their road tyres are rubbish. A rival company exploited this perception. Pirelli are reacting.

What's "hogwash" about any of that? :s

Very concise summing up Dave.

[Mark]

Pirelli were asked to make less durable tyres and they have. I don't see what's so difficult about that. Pirelli themselves have said that making tyres to last over a GP distance would have been much easier than what they were asked to do.

[ioan]

Pirelli were asked to make less durable tyres and they have. I don't see what's so difficult about that. Pirelli themselves have said that making tyres to last over a GP distance would have been much easier than what they were asked to do.

Each to his own I guess.

[Robinho]

one thing i did notice over the German GP was Pirelli saying that the soft tyre was the very same soft they had at the start of the year and it was a combination of the cool conditions and the less abraisive track surface menaing the tyres lasted longer here, plus the fact the teams and drivers have adapted to set the cars up and drive to maximise the performance of the tyres for a longer period

[Sonic]

one thing i did notice over the German GP was Pirelli saying that the soft tyre was the very same soft they had at the start of the year and it was a combination of the cool conditions and the less abraisive track surface menaing the tyres lasted longer here, plus the fact the teams and drivers have adapted to set the cars up and drive to maximise the performance of the tyres for a longer period

Very good point. Martin Brundle commented how little camber the teams were now running on the rears to minimize wear.

[wedge]

one thing i did notice over the German GP was Pirelli saying that the soft tyre was the very same soft they had at the start of the year and it was a combination of the cool conditions and the less abraisive track surface menaing the tyres lasted longer here, plus the fact the teams and drivers have adapted to set the cars up and drive to maximise the performance of the tyres for a longer period

The soft tyres are fine in cool conditions, more vulnerable in warm conditions and wear out quicker.

I was surprised how well the mediums worked. A single step change is enough to provide workable alternate strategy. Teams' simulations are apparently saying 2-stopper are do-able.

[SGWilko]

The soft tyres are fine in cool conditions, more vulnerable in warm conditions and wear out quicker.

IIRC, this was NOT the case in pre season testing....

[Mark]

Each to his own I guess.

Well no, it's not a matter of opinion.

[wedge]

IIRC, this was NOT the case in pre season testing....

Where and when? I think it was Barcelona where there was rain and then a cool, green conditions threw a curveball.

Australia was cool and the tyres were fine. Didn't see that many marbles mid race. Contrast that with Turkey and Spain - the former became a 4-stopper.

Also I seem to remember Alonso was taking it easy on his outlaps in Barcelona and Valencia because he didn't want to overheat the top layer and ruin the tyres for the rest of the stint - and Ferrari is supposed to be kinder to its tyres.

[steveaki13]

I am still enjoying the tyre aspect this season, and for me above the politics, advertising issues is that I find it interesting and fun.

However I would prefer a tyre war, as I think that adds a different element.

I loved the battle between Bridgestone and Michelin.

I know some will argue if another tyre manufacturer came in then Pirelli would get stuffed, but my comment on tyre war is a general one. Two tyre makers in F1 make for competative F1.

[wedge]

Pirelli looking at qualy tyres again. Qualifying tyres could return to Formula 1 next season - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/93716)

Looks like Pirelli will ditch the hard compound, replace it with the current 'medium' with 'hard' and come up with a new medium compound.

Pirelli is set to stop using its hardest compound for the rest of the season - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/93680)

Cue more conspiracy theories. Ioan, is Osama Bin Laden hiding in the same house as Elvis Presley and Bruce Lee?

[I am evil Homer]

Terrible, terrible idea. So F1 is still attempting to 'control' costs but specialist qually tires that get thrown away after a few laps are coming back?

[airshifter]

Changing the hard compound I can see, as it almost appears to be too hard for the intended purposes, and is lasting longer than anticipated.

I'm not really sure how to feel about the qually tires. It is great knowing that all cars end up on the grid in more of less the order of capability that day, and not strategy. But that qually strategy has grown on me over this year, with the better drivers being able to conserve more soft tires for the race.

For now though, it simply appears to be an option thrown out for the teams and/or FIA to decide on. It's not a done deal unless they want to use them, which is probably the best way to introduce it.

[Daniel]

Terrible, terrible idea. So F1 is still attempting to 'control' costs but specialist qually tires that get thrown away after a few laps are coming back?

Tbh the whole idea about controlling costs with tyre regs is ridiculous. There are FAR bigger costs involved in F1 than tyres, tbh bringing back the old tyre regs would probably add very little in terms of costs.

[ioan]

Pirelli again changing something about their tyres in yet another attempt to save face? Who would have thought! :laugh:

Qualifying tyres? Well they need not bother much with the design, their current line up is as close as you can get to a qualifying tire! :rotflmao:

[SGWilko]

Pirelli are doing a great job as far as I am concerned.

Indeed - I was quite vocal as to the suitability of Pirelli during pre-season testing, not only based on their previous performance in F1, but because the degradation in the tests was extreme, and it was a concern as to the suitability of the tyres for the task.

However, the racing has, without doubt, been enhanced by the use of Pirelli tyres, and the sport has been the better for it IMHO.

[555-04Q2]

Pirelli are doing a fantastic job this season :up:

They were given a mandate by the FIA, and not only have they met it, I suspect they have exceeded all expectations anyone had.

[ioan]

And now they are pointing the finger to RBR for the soft tire blistering problem:

Pirelli points finger at Red Bull over Spa tyre controversy - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/94115)

Strange how Alonso's and Button's front left tire was also blistering just like on the RBRs.

What is highly concerning is what Newey mentions at the end of that article:



Red Bull Racing technical chief Adrian Newey admitted that his outfit had been worried about the tyre situation in the build-up to the race.

Speaking to the BBC about how he felt, he said: "I have to say, it is one of the scariest races I have been involved in ever. It is heart-in-the-mouth stuff, because first and foremost our duty of care is to the drivers' safety, and you are trying to make that call or making sure the car is safe while not excessively handicapping ourselves from a performance point of view.

"I found it quite a difficult judgement to make, and at the end of the race I was very relieved that both our drivers were safe."

"Around 5pm yesterday evening Pirelli came to us and said that having looked at our tyres from qualifying they were concerned about the safety of the tyres and that they could be suffering structural damage in the junction between the sidewall and the tread, and felt that failure of the tyre could be imminent on both cars," he added. "It was very concerning... We then entered into a lot of debate with Pirelli about what we should do. They recommended that higher front pressure would make the tyre safer, as would reduced camber – but without permission from the FIA reducing the front camber would be in breach of parc ferme regulations, so we would have to start from the pitlane."


Pirelli should get their crap together before someone get's a huge problem due to their sub-par tires.
Looks like if they would be running at the Indianapolis track this tire wouldn't hold more then 1 or 2 laps. :down:

[Daniel]

To be fair, weren't RBR running their tyres with more camber than Pirelli spec for the tyres?

We didn't see any failures though, but I'd be interested to see just how close we got to failures......

[wedge]

Seen worse

In the late 90s Goodyear tyres were terrible in F1 and Indycar. With blisters the tyres completely dropped off which wasn't quite the case at Spa this year.

I seem to remember one race where Schumi had a tyre failure due to blistered Goodyears.

[mstillhere]

"Plus we all know what a liar Fred and Ferrari are. Damn cheats they are."

You mean more than McLaren and LH?

[Daniel]

Sorry I'm trying to find the connection in the previous posts that made you say that? Has anyone actually accused Alonso and Ferrari of being cheats for you to respond with what looks like an unconnected POV? :confused: :confused:

I completely agree Henners, it's about as relevant to this thread as your comment on the Webber thread about Hamilton getting criticised :laugh:

[Daniel]

Well there you go again proving that my comment in your new thread is correct. I compared two drivers. No discussion of cheating has taken place here so the comment was unrelated!

Henners, I actually agree with you that this post by mstillhere seems to be right out of the blue, but do you not see it as being a teeny little bit strange to feel the need to go further than calling Webber's overtake Hamiltonesque (fair comment) and go on to complain about how people would have theoretically criticised Hamilton for doing the same thing? It wasn't meant to be yet another Hamilton persecution thread and lets leave it there.

[ioan]

Lets leave it there.

:up:

[airshifter]

Maybe Red Bull should run the tires within the constraints of the setup allowances?

Martin Whitmarsh also stated that Red Bull had pushed the setup too far. Though his driver finished in third, he didn't blame the tires.

Horner himself said that the lack of dry running in practice sessions combined with the unique forces on the tires at Spa were a very large contributing factor.



And unlike the situation at Indy, there were no failure pitching someone into a wall at high speed.

No real story to read here. Blistering tires on a Formula 1 car. This must be a first right?

[mstillhere]

Sorry I'm trying to find the connection in the previous posts that made you say that? Has anyone actually accused Alonso and Ferrari of being cheats for you to respond with what looks like an unconnected POV? :confused: :confused:

My comment is a direct answer to a rather naive post made by one of the gentlemen hanging around here (Mr. Alcatraz on the very 1st page of this thread). It was a rather gratuitous, chip shot and really out of the place. it was addressed just for the record.

As far as Pirelli goes IMO this has been a rather strange championship with a tire company mainly asked to make chip tires that wear off sooo quickly that the teams would be forced to make several tire changes during a GP. (Ecclestone's idea) And all that to improve the show. Pirelli is trying to cope with the various safety issues caused by these horrible tires but when you are looking at Pirelli as the main culprit you are definetly wasting your time.

[Retro Formula 1]

So, a team tries to run a tyre out of safe parameters and the Tyre manufacturer says it's unsafe. Shock horror. Must be Pirelli's fault :laugh:

If you substituted RBR for McLaren in this story, ioans response would probably have been... "Whitmarsh trying to murder his drivers!!" :D

[Daniel]

I have to agree knock on. No way is that Pirelli's fault.

[wedge]

No real story to read here. Blistering tires on a Formula 1 car. This must be a first right?

:up:

Been a long time since we've seen blistered tyres in F1.

[SGWilko]

Pirelli to request tyre rule change for 2012 to reduce wastage - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/94272)

The cheaper deal (for F1) appears to be a little too expensive for Pirelli?

[Daniel]

Pirelli to request tyre rule change for 2012 to reduce wastage - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/94272)

The cheaper deal (for F1) appears to be a little to expensive for Pirelli?

Whilst I will have to annoyingly admit that Pirelli seem have done a decent enough job in F1 this year, I really don't feel this is the sort of company you want in F1. F1 is expensive and IMHO we should have a sport where the tyre companies have to bring loads of different compounds of tyres to each race simply to compete with the other tyremaker/s. But back to Pirelli, F1 is expensive and if they think they've got a brand that belongs in F1 then they should bloody well do what is asked of them.

[ioan]

Pirelli to request tyre rule change for 2012 to reduce wastage - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/94272)

The cheaper deal (for F1) appears to be a little too expensive for Pirelli?

They are crap and they make it a virtue on top of it.
On they're own they requested many more changes than all teams together during this season.
Pretty sure most teams would kick them out without second thoughts if they could chose a professional supplier.

Bugger off Pirelli, this is not your kindergarten.

[Big Ben]

Whilst I will have to annoyingly admit that Pirelli seem have done a decent enough job in F1 this year, I really don't feel this is the sort of company you want in F1. F1 is expensive and IMHO we should have a sport where the tyre companies have to bring loads of different compounds of tyres to each race simply to compete with the other tyremaker/s. But back to Pirelli, F1 is expensive and if they think they've got a brand that belongs in F1 then they should bloody well do what is asked of them.

Jeeez, I thought it's supposed to be expensinve because they spend money trying to build fast cars not to carry around tires noone uses... that's just ridiculous... perhaps next time the tire supplier should be requiered to have some amount of gold in their tires :laugh:

[Big Ben]

So what happened Ioan? Did your entire family died in a car crash caused by pirelli tyres because otherwise this is quite abnormal.

[Knock-on]

ioan's got a bee in his bonnet about Pirelli and true to form, will doggedly stick to his opinion no matter what evidence is to the contrary in the unshakable belief that if he continues to state his opinion over, and over, and over again, it may magically become fact.

[Daniel]

ioan's got a bee in his bonnet about Pirelli and true to form, will doggedly stick to his opinion no matter what evidence is to the contrary in the unshakable belief that if he continues to state his opinion over, and over, and over again, it may magically become fact.

Sounds like someone on another thread at the moment :laugh: (That's not some cheap dig at you btw KNockie...)

I have to hold my hand up and say that PIrelli are doing a decent job, I still believe others could do better but Pirelli are getting a C+/B- IMHO which is a passing grade.

[Daniel]

Jeeez, I thought it's supposed to be expensinve because they spend money trying to build fast cars not to carry around tires noone uses... that's just ridiculous... perhaps next time the tire supplier should be requiered to have some amount of gold in their tires :laugh:

WTF are you jibber jabbering on about? :confused:

[Knock-on]

WTF are you jibber jabbering on about? :confused:

I think that the reason Pirelli wants to drop a set of the hards is because they are never used and just get made to be destroyed.

As they are never used, Pirelli are asking why they need to be made transported, purchased and finally destroyed.

Wouldn't it be easier to just bring one set less is all they're asking.

Saves time, effort and money.

I don't know whether this is evidence that Pirelli is failing as a F1 tyre supplier but it sort of makes sense to me.

[Daniel]

I think that the reason Pirelli wants to drop a set of the hards is because they are never used and just get made to be destroyed.

As they are never used, Pirelli are asking why they need to be made transported, purchased and finally destroyed.

Wouldn't it be easier to just bring one set less is all they're asking.

Saves time, effort and money.

Sods law says that you drop that set and then it's needed. Personally I'm 100% against single tyre suppliers and limited compounds. It completely takes the magic out of tyre selection and makes for more monotonous racing.

[Malbec]

I think that the reason Pirelli wants to drop a set of the hards is because they are never used and just get made to be destroyed.

As they are never used, Pirelli are asking why they need to be made transported, purchased and finally destroyed.

Wouldn't it be easier to just bring one set less is all they're asking.

Saves time, effort and money.

I don't know whether this is evidence that Pirelli is failing as a F1 tyre supplier but it sort of makes sense to me.

Makes sense to me too, did people complain as much when bridgestone asked to make it compulsory for the teams to have to run both compounds in the race also to cut wastage?

[Knock-on]

Well, I appreciate what you are saying about single suppliers but whether it's DRS or Pirelli, you can't argue that this year has been one of the most exciting. If you agree with DRS or the tyre regulations, this year is anything but monotonous.

[Daniel]

Well, I appreciate what you are saying about single suppliers but whether it's DRS or Pirelli, you can't argue that this year has been one of the most exciting. If you agree with DRS or the tyre regulations, this year is anything but monotonous.

Definitely. I like DRS personally. This year has been good for sure and I really don't get the DRS whiners.

[ioan]

ioan's got a bee in his bonnet about Pirelli and true to form, will doggedly stick to his opinion no matter what evidence is to the contrary in the unshakable belief that if he continues to state his opinion over, and over, and over again, it may magically become fact.

There is no evidence to the contrary.

[ioan]

Sods law says that you drop that set and then it's needed. Personally I'm 100% against single tyre suppliers and limited compounds. It completely takes the magic out of tyre selection and makes for more monotonous racing.

Standardization has to start somewhere. The future of F1 looks standardized.

[ioan]

So what happened Ioan? Did your entire family died in a car crash caused by pirelli tyres because otherwise this is quite abnormal.

I would never put Pirelli's on my car, Dunlop and Michelin are much better.

[wedge]

Sods law says that you drop that set and then it's needed. Personally I'm 100% against single tyre suppliers and limited compounds. It completely takes the magic out of tyre selection and makes for more monotonous racing.

If you know your motorsport a tyre war can have the same effect when a superior tyre can be in a league of its own. Eg. Rossi jumping to Bridgestones in MotoGP.

[ioan]

Great read for a laugh, Formula 1 teams get reduced camber limit for the Italian Grand Prix at Monza - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/94283) :



"We've given slightly reduced limits to be slight more cautious," he told AUTOSPORT. "From the data we've seen, Monza is likely to be in some regards similar in severity to Spa. However, we will obviously have some dry running for once judging by the forecast – and with more cautious limits we will be fine.

"We couldn't go any more conservative than the limit we have set, because then you could have a problem in the curves with the camber not recovering. We have to be careful with these things, but we believe we've set a reasonable level for the teams to be at."


Which means they have no clue about exactly what they expect from their tires this coming week end and they reduced the recommended camber angle as much as possible.

Some more fun from the same source



"Teams pushing the limits probably occurs at a lot of races, it is part of normal procedures, but what you end up doing when you find problems [like blisters] is you end up modifying the set-up and sorting it. Nobody could see it in Belgium because it rained throughout practice, so a lot of circumstances were involved there.

Yeah, F1 teams probably push the limits Mr. Funny Tire Guy, it was about time you discovered it too. LOL

And then the corporate hogwash:


"That didn't help us and it didn't help Red Bull Racing, but we are not having an argument with them and they are not having an argument with us."


Vettel's discussion with the Pirelli engineer on the grid before the Spa race looked very friendly to Mr. Hembery:
sebastian vettel mario isola pirelli spa belgium - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWkgG1lWkmk)

:laugh:

For all their defaults, whatever those might have been, Bridgestone didn't talk this much rubbish.

[donKey jote]

I would never put Pirelli's on my car, Dunlop and Michelin are much better.

Well I'd never put either of them on mine :andrea: :laugh:

[ArrowsFA1]

For all their defaults, whatever those might have been, Bridgestone didn't talk this much rubbish.
Bridgestone never had to work within the kind of constraints Pirelli do now, but were still perfectly capable of coming up with rubbish where their competition were concerned, when they had competition.

Although you are enjoying having a go at Pirelli, your argument should be directed at the FIA. It is the FIA who wanted a single tyre supplier. It is the FIA who have dictated the type of tyres Pirelli have to produce. Yes, Pirelli signed up to the deal but they have done exactly what was asked of them.

Don't like the results? Blame the FIA.

[Knock-on]

That's really it in a nutshell ioan. You can't blame Pirelli for doing what they were asked to do.

[ioan]

Well I'd never put either of them on mine :andrea: :laugh:

Cause you get free Contis?

[steveaki13]

This guy told me he loves Pirelli tyres.

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r33/kevonionia/Fall%20pix%202010/Michelin-man-and-Pirelli-girls-79.jpg

[ioan]

Bridgestone never had to work within the kind of constraints Pirelli do now, but were still perfectly capable of coming up with rubbish where their competition were concerned, when they had competition.

Although you are enjoying having a go at Pirelli, your argument should be directed at the FIA. It is the FIA who wanted a single tyre supplier. It is the FIA who have dictated the type of tyres Pirelli have to produce. Yes, Pirelli signed up to the deal but they have done exactly what was asked of them.

Don't like the results? Blame the FIA.

Can anyone show us those requirements to make crap tires everyone keeps shouting around about? Or at least give some details about what was requested? I won't hold my breath given that these never existed. After all Michelin were pushing hard to use their Sport Prototype tires if they were to win the bid and those are not tires that last 10 laps at most, those can run 4 to 6 hours on LMP1 cars.

And when did Bridgestone come with flops like Pirelli is providing now? Care to give a few examples out of their long F1 presence? I guess not.

Anyway what would Pirelli do without gullible F1 fans? I guess you guys are good for something too.

[wedge]

And when did Bridgestone come with flops like Pirelli is providing now? Care to give a few examples out of their long F1 presence? I guess not.



They did, at the start of 2009. Remember theat year's Australian GP when Vettel crashed into Kubica when the tyres degraded in the last stint.

There was a backlash and back to normalcy after a few races.

Last year started off badly in Bahrain but it was until Canada with the severe tyre wear produced an exciting race was there a call for B'stones to replicate further races with higher tyre wear. B'stone would not commit due to costs.

[donKey jote]

Cause you get free Contis?
No, because I know which ones are better :D

And unfortunately now when it counts, after years of getting free donkey 15" wheels, we don't get free Contis anymore :dozey:

[jens]

Crap tyres or not, but we should be thankful to Pirelli for what they have produced for F1 this season. Tyres have been the key factor in making the races truly enjoyable and exciting. Despite Vettel's dominance in the point standings we can say that it has been a good and interesting season!

[ArrowsFA1]

Can anyone show us those requirements to make crap tires everyone keeps shouting around about? Or at least give some details about what was requested? I won't hold my breath given that these never existed.
ioan, it took less than a minute to find this from June 2010:

Pirelli has landed the deal as F1's sole tyre supplier for three years beginning in 2011, following a meeting of the FIA World Council in Geneva today.
The Italian company was last in F1 in 1991 and will replace Bridgestone, which leaves the sport at the end of the year. The FIA announcement says that the sole supplier will "undertake to strictly respect the sporting and technical regulations implemented by the FIA."
F1 News > Pirelli lands F1 tyre deal (http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns22361.html)

[The Black Knight]

Can anyone show us those requirements to make crap tires everyone keeps shouting around about? Or at least give some details about what was requested? I won't hold my breath given that these never existed. After all Michelin were pushing hard to use their Sport Prototype tires if they were to win the bid and those are not tires that last 10 laps at most, those can run 4 to 6 hours on LMP1 cars.
And when did Bridgestone come with flops like Pirelli is providing now? Care to give a few examples out of their long F1 presence? I guess not.
Anyway what would Pirelli do without gullible F1 fans? I guess you guys are good for something too.


Pirelli hits back at degradation critics | Formula 1 | Formula 1 news, live F1 | ESPN F1 (http://en.espnf1.com/f1/motorsport/story/42181.html)



Martin Whitmarsh defends Pirelli degradation | Formula 1 | Formula 1 news, live F1 | ESPN F1 (http://en.espnf1.com/f1/motorsport/story/42322.html)

Martin Whitmarsh: "Bridgestone were always a great partner, but from my position at FOTA I have heard several times in recent years pressure for tyres with more risk," he added. "But now we publicly criticise the degradation of these tyres. The job of tyre
supplier is a thankless one, as the higher wear is a feature that was requested to make the show better."

These sort of tyres are what was requested of Pirelli from the F1 world. Unfortunately, it's people like you that don't realise this and whom insist on trying to give Pirelli a bad name for their good efforts in the sport that will ultimately lead to Pirelli creating more durable tyres. Back in Italy Pirelli have also come under scrutiny with other tyres company claiming that the high degradation as seen on their F1 tyres also holds true to heir roads tyres. This is obviously bull but, unfortunately, you have drones that believe it. Try not to be one of them.

Pirelli are doing what they were asked and they have improved the show a lot.

[Malbec]

After all Michelin were pushing hard to use their Sport Prototype tires if they were to win the bid and those are not tires that last 10 laps at most, those can run 4 to 6 hours on LMP1 cars.

Michelin were also asking for an exorbitant fee from the teams for supplying those tyres recycled from another formula. They were looking merely to profit from F1 and they weren't interested in addressing requests from the FIA or FOTA to spice things up with a shorter tyre life. I'd rather have a tyre company like Pirelli that actively engages in F1 and alters both its compounds and choices according to how the races shape up rather than providing a set of long life tyres and buggering off, pocketing the profits like Michelin offered.

[Knock-on]

You don't need to hold your breath ioan and go purple, we won't hold you to that. ;)

Every forum needs it's Jester. We have ioan :laugh:

[Dave B]

Can anyone show us those requirements to make crap tires everyone keeps shouting around about? Or at least give some details about what was requested? I won't hold my breath given that these never existed.

Anyway what would Pirelli do without gullible F1 fans? I guess you guys are good for something too.

FFS you asked this a couple of months ago and I provided you with several links. Now others have provided still more. You're demonstrably wrong. Let it go.

[Mia 01]

Nothing, nothing to see here except for people who love to read there own lines.

[ioan]

FFS you asked this a couple of months ago and I provided you with several links. Now others have provided still more. You're demonstrably wrong. Let it go.

Let's see quotes from Pirelli and the FIA covering their backsides for the tire flop are proof? Great logic you've got. Sorry for not buyin' it.

Why didn't anyone mention these requirements for crap tires last season during the tender?

PS: No need to answer Dave, use your energy for something else.

[steveaki13]

I thought it was mentioned last year that Bernie or FIA or whoever it was, did say they would like softer less durable tyres! After people running the whole race bar one lap on Bridgestone Soft tyres.

[ioan]

I thought it was mentioned last year that Bernie or FIA or whoever it was, did say they would like softer less durable tyres! After people running the whole race bar one lap on Bridgestone Soft tyres.

Maybe, but 10 laps or less? Just sayin'.

[steveaki13]

Maybe, but 10 laps or less? Just sayin'.

Don't get me wrong some races this year did have way to many pitstops through very wearing tyres, which is not great for Pirelli, but I have also thought some races this year have been improved when the tyres performed better.

I have no doubt that bridgestone or Michelin may have cut out those poor races as they have a much better pedigree in F1, but I don't feel it is right to just completely slam Pirelli for every race.

They have made tyres too soft for some races, but F1 chose them rather than another tyre company and this has only been the case for a few races and not every one. So for the races they got it wrong I critised and for the races I feel they have done a good job I praise.

And the races that saw the alarming degradation seem to have been put behind us for now, so maybe they are learning and getting it right.

[airshifter]

I thought it was mentioned last year that Bernie or FIA or whoever it was, did say they would like softer less durable tyres! After people running the whole race bar one lap on Bridgestone Soft tyres.

Back farther in the thread myself and several others posted links from before the season start saying this was what was to be delivered. It's just that Ioan continues to ignore them and stated the tires are crap. Same as it ever was. :)

[ioan]

Back farther in the thread myself and several others posted links from before the season start saying this was what was to be delivered. It's just that Ioan continues to ignore them and stated the tires are crap. Same as it ever was. :)

Post a link from when the tire tender was open, not from when the drivers complained Pirelli and the FIA realized that the tires were crap. After all these specs were in the FIA tender weren't they? Or was this an open tender without specs?

[Dave B]

Post a link from when the tire tender was open, not from when the drivers complained Pirelli and the FIA realized that the tires were crap. After all these specs were in the FIA tender weren't they? Or was this an open tender without specs?

The tyre tender, as I expect you know, would have been confidential. However both Arrows and myself have posted links to well before the first Pirelli had been released from its mould, quoting people like Bernie saying that he hoped the new tyres would contribute to the show.

I fail to grasp why you cannot or will not understand that these quotes pre-date any perceived shortcomings of the tyres. Time is linear*, perhaps you were off sick the day your school covered that in science lessons. Other than that, I can only conclude you're trolling.

(*from our perspective, before any smartarse starts quoting quantum physics and string theory at me :p )

[Mark]

There's nothing in the laws of physics which says time has to run forwards all the time.

If Pirelli want to save money the FIA should get rid of the stupid 'two compounds' rule so they only need to bring one type to each track.

[ioan]

So all we have is claims and hopes from Bernie, and me thinking you guys have some tangible proof that the FIA had imposed these crap specs to the participants to the tender.
Good too know what are the basis to your claims and tries to change other people's minds.

Anyway I'm done with losing my time answering people who mainly only insult other forum members.

[airshifter]

Here are some links of the before the fact excuses, still ignored. :)



I guess Bernie, Pirelli, Jenson, and a bunch of the fans started making up excuses before the fact?

Formula 1 (http://www.formula1.com/news/interviews/2011/5/12025.html)

That contains comments regarding Bernies desires and feelings about the Pirellis, including comments about not wanting too much durability.

Formula 1 (http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2011/2/11749.html)

That links points out that the softer compounds will improve performance at the expense of durability, which will make for more strategy decisions. Remind me how many F1 races had taken place in February?

Formula 1 (http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2011/2/11745.html)

Another article that mentions the importance of strategy and tire management. Button comments that it's "what everyone wanted". I guess Jenson was making excuses before the season started in exchange for kickbacks from Pirelli? :laugh:


Well before the season started Pirelli stated they were going to make tires that would require two to three stops per race on average. But they also made it very clear that using the softer compounds in an aggressive manner would cause more rapid degradation and more stops. It seems the powers that be that brought Pirelli into F1 for this season are happy with the outcome.

[ioan]

And the 'fun' continues:



"Something needs to happen," Hembery told AUTOSPORT. "I am going to have a sit down with Oliver [Weingarten] from FOTA, and the Sporting Working Group, in Korea this week, and we will have a formal meeting in India about the whole thing.

"We need to come up with some proposals. We have some ideas and we have to try and find a common ground to how we solve it."

"It is nonsense; you don't need to conserve your tyres. You have enough to do the whole race anyway. We are happy to go through with whatever we can to solve it."

Pirelli to discuss Q3 tyre-saving issue with FOTA in Korea - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/95243)

Funny how the guy who knows bugger all about F1 thinks that he knows better then F1 teams and engineers with many years of experience.
What with the tires being crap after stints of only 9 laps in Japan?

They need to pull their fingers out of their behinds and make a real race tire, that's the solution, now that everyone sees that teams need to save tires in qualifying instead of going all out.

[ioan]

I thought Button did around 23 laps on his tyres in the last stint of the race?

Longest last stint was Vettel's. And that was on the hardest compound after 70% of the race was done.
Rosberg's first stint on hard tires was 14 or 15 laps only 4 laps longer than the 10 laps that Button managed on the softer compound.

The reason why teams save tires for the race is that the 3 laps needed for 1 qualy lap to be done is about 30% of the life of a tire, the best 30% after which performance goes downhill rather fast.

Anyway the agitation in the Pirelli camp shows that the marketing backlash is being felt big time and they know that this can't continue. The only question is if they will be able to make quality racing rubber or will continue blaming the teams? I guess it will be the later.

[Malbec]

Longest last stint was Vettel's. And that was on the hardest compound after 70% of the race was done.

Vettel pitted at lap 33 to do 20 laps to the end.

Kobayashi pitted on lap 24 to do 29 laps on the hard tyres to the end of the race. 29 laps isn't bad for a tyre that had no life.

[wedge]

And the 'fun' continues:


Pirelli to discuss Q3 tyre-saving issue with FOTA in Korea - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/95243)

Funny how the guy who knows bugger all about F1 thinks that he knows better then F1 teams and engineers with many years of experience.
What with the tires being crap after stints of only 9 laps in Japan?

They need to pull their fingers out of their behinds and make a real race tire, that's the solution, now that everyone sees that teams need to save tires in qualifying instead of going all out.

Of course the tyres are crap but everyone has deal with it and it gives the teams something to really think about on race weekends.

And the racing has been so much better for it. Longer do we get the last stint/last third of the race where most drivers pace to the finish

As for the tyre saving thing I have no problems with it. The main focus is on pole - as it should be. If FI or Sauber or even MGP want to work on race day then so be it but at least pole position has not be diminished in past years with qualify-with-race-fuel-load. However I can see Hembrey's position and we live in financially difficult times.

After a few seasons getting used to safe and bland Michelin tyres will be poor for F1, IMHO. I'd rather have crap tyres than DRS.

[ioan]

As for the tyre saving thing I have no problems with it.

Neither have I.
What bothers me is Pirelli blaming the teams for saving tires for the race and making the tire supplier look bad, while the solution to the problem is better tires.
Not to mention that last season Bridgestone was supplying 14 tires sets / race week end / car, Pirelli did reduce it to 11 sets and wanted a few weeks ago to reduce it to 10 sets / car / race week end. Their wishes are somewhat contradictory yet they blame others.



I'd rather have crap tyres than DRS.

Same here, though I don't like any of them. F1 is no more a sprint race,a battle of those who are faster, is a tire related roulette. A crap tire decides the outcome of the race, not the chassis, not the engine, not the driver's ultimate speed, just pieces of rubber that aren't related to the technical excellence of the F1 teams. What a shame.

There's more tire saving going on during a F1 race then during a 24 Hours Le Mans race, it's just wrong.

[Dave B]

Neither have I.
What bothers me is Pirelli blaming the teams for saving tires for the race and making the tire supplier look bad...
Have they? I've heard them blame the rules, but never the teams. This from Autosport (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/95170), for example:

I'm not criticising the teams because I know why they've done it, because they are using the rules to obtain the best result, so it's not a case of that. But I think we have to look at the wider picture and all of us work together to find a solution.

I presume you have a link for your assertation that Pirelli have been blaming the teams? Thought not... :s


...while the solution to the problem is better tires.

Which has been explained to you, and backed up with numerous sources, on many occasions.


A crap tire decides the outcome of the race, not the chassis, not the engine, not the driver's ultimate speed, just pieces of rubber that aren't related to the technical excellence of the F1 teams. What a shame.

Odd then, perhaps, that the fastest drivers in the best teams have been winning all the races this year. Or not...

[wedge]

F1 is no more a sprint race,a battle of those who are faster, is a tire related roulette. A crap tire decides the outcome of the race, not the chassis, not the engine, not the driver's ultimate speed, just pieces of rubber that aren't related to the technical excellence of the F1 teams. What a shame.

To the naked eye and it may appear to be a sprint but it's not.

Tyre management - the balance between extending life vs. performance has always been one of the great conundrums throughout motorsport and the soft, crap tyres have added a twist.

You doubt that teams and drivers do not work hard to maximize the tyres then you are utterly wrong and the results have shown this.



There's more tire saving going on during a F1 race then during a 24 Hours Le Mans race, it's just wrong.

There's nothing wrong at all. Has pole position been devalued as in past seasons with race fuel quali? Besides, in previous seasons weren't Ferrari caught out in trying to be clever in sending out their drivers on the harder tire and save a new set of softs?

[ioan]

To the naked eye and it may appear to be a sprint but it's not.

Tyre management - the balance between extending life vs. performance has always been one of the great conundrums throughout motorsport and the soft, crap tyres have added a twist.

You doubt that teams and drivers do not work hard to maximize the tyres then you are utterly wrong and the results have shown this.




There's nothing wrong at all. Has pole position been devalued as in past seasons with race fuel quali? Besides, in previous seasons weren't Ferrari caught out in trying to be clever in sending out their drivers on the harder tire and save a new set of softs?

You're pretty much wrong on all of them, then again it's a question of bias above all I guess.
And before you accuse me of bias I'll point out that Vettel whom I support most has already wrapped up the WDC, yet I feel F1 is going down the wrong path.

And yes race fuel qualy did devalue Pole Position a lot in the past years.

[Knock-on]

Can you answer the point raised by Dave please ioan. You seem to be writing a lot of opinion and claiming it as fact. I thought you were trying to stop doing this :s

[Dave B]

Everything I post is my own opinion and I\'ll always try to back it up! :)

Tick tock, Clarice....

[wedge]

You're pretty much wrong on all of them, then again it's a question of bias above all I guess.
And before you accuse me of bias I'll point out that Vettel whom I support most has already wrapped up the WDC, yet I feel F1 is going down the wrong path.


If the Pirelli's tyres has created a game of roulette then Vettel would not be WDC. He has won it on merit.

[DexDexter]

If the Pirelli's tyres has created a game of roulette then Vettel would not be WDC. He has won it on merit.

Exactly. Pirelli have been great and I hope they continue to produce these crap tires that Bernie & co wanted. It's great for us, never mind a couple of ioans.