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Azumanga Davo
18th January 2011, 11:43
Link (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/88968)

Mostly concerning the part of the article from about halfway down.

I'm rather concerned that certain colour schemes could bite the bullet in future thanks to anti-tobacco campaigners. Let's face it, if you see a black and gold F1 car and that makes you want to buy cigarettes, I'm afraid it's you with the problem, not the F1 team itself.

And of course, if this set the precedent, then it's goodbye to the red and white chevron, sayonara to anything yellow and black. Heck, you could even argue multiple blues could go thanks to numerous Ligier and Bennetton main sponsor connections.

If anything colour scheme associated should go, then make it the obvious culprit: Philip Morris. Their not-very-stealthy-at-all barcodes and other brand covering schemes are more damaging than a black and gold car. Your thoughts on the subject?

Bagwan
18th January 2011, 13:02
Slammer , I'm here in Canada , and I haven't heard any grumblings about this so far .

From the way they have dealt with liveries in past years , allowing the red chevron , and then the barcode on Ferrari cars , I wouldn't be too worried about this .

That said , the anti-tobacco lobby is strong here .
Many stand shivering outside with thier addictions , as pneumonia added to emphysema and lung cancer solves the problem .

SGWilko
18th January 2011, 14:15
if you see a black and gold F1 car and that makes you want to buy cigarettes.....

Would that not have been the original point behind the JPS Lotus?

Somebody
18th January 2011, 15:00
And of course, if this set the precedent, then it's goodbye to the red and white chevron, sayonara to anything yellow and black. Heck, you could even argue multiple blues could go thanks to numerous Ligier and Bennetton main sponsor connections.

That's scaremongering. What matters here is not merely the colour scheme, but the *pattern* and *intent behind it*. "Lotus" Renault are directly and intentionally mimicking the late-70s/early-80s Lotus livery IN TOTAL, and those Lotuses only ran in that colour scheme because a group of tobacco merchants paid them to. Ergo, they are effectively reviving the JPS sponsorship even without a penny changing hands.

You'll note that last year's very yellow & black Renault, a similar homage to a past non-tobacco paint job (Renault's early 80s scheme in their own corporate colours) raised nary/an eyebrow in Canada even if it shared colours with the late-90s tobacco-sponsored Jordan.


If anything colour scheme associated should go, then make it the obvious culprit: Philip Morris. Their not-very-stealthy-at-all barcodes and other brand covering schemes are more damaging than a black and gold car.
PM should indeed withdraw their poisoned claws from Ferrari. The "problem" with Canada pressing them comes from the facts that (a) red & white (albeit a darker red) are historically associated with Ferrari going back to before the sponsorship era; and (b) Santander are also associated with bright red & white...

Mark
18th January 2011, 15:01
Although they deny it, it *is* a copy of the JPS Lotus. But that was run how many years ago now? I suspect many won't even realise.

Somebody
18th January 2011, 15:09
Although they deny it, it *is* a copy of the JPS Lotus. But that was run how many years ago now? I suspect many won't even realise.

Well, that was TF's face-saving excuse for going back to green/yellow - that he hadn't realised JPS was still a live brand and using those colours.

And the law seems to be deliberately framed to exclude "I suspect many won't even realise" as a defence. As long as *one* person in Canada makes the link, there's a potentially actionable case there. Of course "potentially" doesn't have to translate into action - the Canadians aren't obliged to prosecute every case, and even if they were, LRGP could just remove the gold strips for that one race to get round it, leaving a black car with gold sponsor-stickers.

Mark
18th January 2011, 15:12
I can see their point. But as far as I know Renault are not in receipt of any money from the owners of JPS? Which has to count for something.

Although I disagree with the premise, if that's Canadian law, then that's that. There's nothing to stop them running a different livery in Canada..

nigelred5
18th January 2011, 15:17
So a black car with gold lettering is illegal simply because a single particular brand of cigarettes is also sold in a black package with gold lettering?


Can The canadian govenment prove that the team is receiving financing from Imperial Tobacco and subliminally advertizing cigarettes. Of course not, as that is NOT the case. IS IT? Maybe if there hadn't been a 25 year break since that livery was actually last linked with a cigarette brand and Imperial Tobacco had been proven to be sponsoring the Lotus Renault team, I might say there was some manner of a case, but it's just BS. I suppose I can't have a baby blue and white car either? Or a red and white car? or a yellow car? or a white car? Or a silver and black car?

Wasn't Canada going to impose a law banning ANY branding of cigarette packaging whatsoever? Everyone would have to sell generically packaged cigarettes with a simple name on the package?


Yet another case of liberal f-tards screwing with peoples lives.

ShiftingGears
18th January 2011, 15:29
They aren't being paid by a tobacco company for that livery, so as far as I am concerned, any correlation with tobacco branding is purely coincidental and unintentional, and the Canadian government should find something better to blow taxpayers money on.

Somebody
18th January 2011, 16:15
So a black car with gold lettering is illegal simply because a single particular brand of cigarettes is also sold in a black package with gold lettering?
No, a black car designed to evoke a JPS fag packet is illegal.


Can The canadian govenment prove that the team is receiving financing from Imperial Tobacco and subliminally advertizing cigarettes.
Financing isn't required. Given that big companies (not just tobacco, look up "Hollywood accounting" some time. Or the company structure of F1's own holding companies post-CVC takeover) have a habit of deliberately obfuscating their accounts until they show that black is white, they went for the nuclear option and banned anything with a clear & obvious VISUAL link and any sort of trail to go with it. In this case, LRGP -> Try to copy 70s Lotus -> 70s Lotus design paid for and designed by 70s JPS -> JPS still use the same basic design/colour scheme today.


I suppose I can't have a baby blue and white car either? Or a red and white car? or a yellow car? or a white car? Or a silver and black car?
Sure you can, so long as you don't copy specific designs from the packaging.

Wasn't Canada going to impose a law banning ANY branding of cigarette packaging whatsoever? Everyone would have to sell generically packaged cigarettes with a simple name on the package?


They aren't being paid by a tobacco company for that livery, so as far as I am concerned, any correlation with tobacco branding is purely coincidental and unintentional,...
It's a direct, INTENTIONAL copy of a livery JPS designed and paid for to evoke their fag packets. If LRGP didn't realise that, they're morons.

ArrowsFA1
18th January 2011, 16:52
No, a black car designed to evoke a JPS fag packet is illegal.
Heaven help Classic Team Lotus (http://www.classicteamlotus.co.uk) (the real-link-back-to-the-past-Team-Lotus) then :(

schmenke
18th January 2011, 18:53
Heaven help Classic Team Lotus (http://www.classicteamlotus.co.uk) (the real-link-back-to-the-past-Team-Lotus) then :(

Back to the past, perhaps, but interestingly the "links" page includes this site:

http://www.lotuscars.com/en/index

Which is also:

http://www.grouplotus.com

;)

mstillhere
18th January 2011, 23:28
So a black car with gold lettering is illegal simply because a single particular brand of cigarettes is also sold in a black package with gold lettering?


Can The canadian govenment prove that the team is receiving financing from Imperial Tobacco and subliminally advertizing cigarettes. Of course not, as that is NOT the case. IS IT? Maybe if there hadn't been a 25 year break since that livery was actually last linked with a cigarette brand and Imperial Tobacco had been proven to be sponsoring the Lotus Renault team, I might say there was some manner of a case, but it's just BS. I suppose I can't have a baby blue and white car either? Or a red and white car? or a yellow car? or a white car? Or a silver and black car?

Wasn't Canada going to impose a law banning ANY branding of cigarette packaging whatsoever? Everyone would have to sell generically packaged cigarettes with a simple name on the package?


Yet another case of liberal f-tards screwing with peoples lives.

Wasn't Ferrari asked to get rid of a bar code showing on a small place of their car their car that was linked specifically to Marlboro cigarettes? I think once someone draws the link between something and a cigarette company it's all over.

nigelred5
19th January 2011, 00:25
Yeah, but in the case of Ferrari, They WERE receiving substantial sponsorship from Marlboro, and as I recall, they continue to do so. The point is, this is a link to a paint scheme, not a damn package of cigarettes or more importanty, Tobacco sponsorship or advertising. Are they going to ban the Andretti clan from wearing the trademark red stripe on their helmets. That is after all a remnant of Viceroy sponsorship from what, 1972.

This , or any incarnation of Lotus hasn't received tobacco money in decades. It's still bu!!$#!!

If they were using the same font and mocking the JPS logo they might have a case.

I supose they will need to ban gold pinstripes on all black cars in Canada, let it be construed as tobacco advertising.

Rollo
19th January 2011, 01:30
No, a black car designed to evoke a JPS fag packet is illegal.

It's a direct, INTENTIONAL copy of a livery JPS designed and paid for to evoke their fag packets. If LRGP didn't realise that, they're morons.

http://gal.darkervision.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/ceci-n-est-pas-une-pipe.jpg

English translation: This is not a pipe.
Actually this is not just "not a pipe", it's a computer display of a JPEG representation of a painting of an artist's impression of a pipe.

How many iterations do they wish to go before the thing isn't the thing which it's supposed to represent?

Besides which, the colour scheme itself was created in 1968 by John Player & Sons to evoke the Shelby Mustang GT350H. The 350H was specifically released to be rented through Hertz Rent a Car, but was soon stopped as they realised that the cars were being rented to be used as getaway cars from bank robberies.

It's a direct intentional copy of a livery JPS designed and paid for to evoke their fag packets, which itself was designed to evoke a colour scheme for a rental car company. The mind boggles :crazy:

JackSparrow
19th January 2011, 01:39
Rubish

Rollo
19th January 2011, 03:09
Team Gold Leaf Lotus appeared at the 1968 Monaco GP, but the black JPS Lotii didn't appear until the 1972 Argentine GP. Imperial Tobacco registered the black and gold trademark in 1968, and the brand followed in the UK in 1970.

The Shelby 350H looks like this:
http://www.cartype.com/pics/3772/small/2006_shelby_hertz_gt350h_rs1.jpg
And there's a neat article here:
http://www.examiner.com/auto-review-in-national/retro-car-review-1966-shelby-gt-350h-lets-hertz-put-you-the-race-driver-s-seat

Hawkmoon
19th January 2011, 03:37
I think the amusing thing is that racing fans see black and gold and think "Lotus", not JPS cigarettes. Lotus-Renault are reviving that livery becuase it is synonomus with Team Lotus, not because they want to evoke memories of JPS. Sure there's a link there but it's an incidental one in this case.

Tumbo
19th January 2011, 07:35
See end of the day this is all about legal interpretation - someone who works for anti-tobacco is always going to give a completely strong anti-toabcco viewpoint no question about it.

Now the main issue which will arise here is in relation to tobacco sponsership - a car which has NO links to tobacco, receives no sponsership $ from tobacco and which runs nothing more than a classic COLOUR scheme - are they contravening the actual WORDING of the Act.

Having read through the relevant legislation (albeit briefly in the last 15mins) i've looked through what seem to be the sections of issue here and they all refer to ACTUAL promotion, sponsership attempts and the like and here we have something which seems to fall outside the scope of the legislation.............just wait tho any lawyer worth his salt would argue that BUT quite simple for legislature to change it up

Big Ben
19th January 2011, 09:16
The whole idea that color schemes could be interpreted as hidden tobacco advertising is really ridiculous.... there are only two ways to fight this... bigger taxes and banning smoke from as many places as possible. If they think people start/keep smoking because the renaults are gold and black they are not too smart. I had now idea they're is a cigarettes brand that uses this colors before they brought it up.

nigelred5
20th January 2011, 00:05
I honestly had no clue JPS was a cigarette brand until I was probably 15 years old. I wasn't influenced to smoke because my favorite drivers drove the JPS. In american racing, just about every car was called the X "Special" of some sort. I had no idea who the hell John Player was. I detested smoking then, and I still do to this day, but that's an individual choice.

Too bad Lotus wasn't one of the teams sponsored by Playboy or Penthouse in the 70's ;)

ArrowsFA1
20th January 2011, 08:30
This is all as absurd as the cigarette in Paul McCartney's hand being airbrushed out of the Abbey Road album cover (link (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/2681219.stm)).

Mark
20th January 2011, 08:59
Yep, lets not take things too far. Next they'll be saying you can't show any historic F1 because of the cig adverts they carried then (if they haven't already!)

Personally I just got into F1 about the time one usually starts smoking, but I have to say I've never encouraged to take up smoking by it. However if I were to start smoking I would have been more likely to choose a brand which was involved in F1 than one which was not.

SGWilko
20th January 2011, 10:26
I don't think tobacco advertising has ever been about getting folk to start smoking, but to get them to change brand - with success being the deciding factor to make the smoker change brand? I rather suspect a lot of market research by the tobacco companies have lots of data to support this theory.

Now, if you were to ask the CEO of JPS or whatever the company is called now, they'd probably not be upset with the proposed Lotus Renault livery.

ArrowsFA1
20th January 2011, 10:48
Why is the Renault/Lotus colour scheme a problem when elsewhere a tobacco company can continue sponsoring a F1 team :confused:


Marlboro is on the verge of extending its title sponsorship deals with both Ferrari and the Ducati MotoGP team, AUTOSPORT has learned.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/88996

Mark
20th January 2011, 10:50
It's only an issue in Canada as far as I'm aware. If Renault are prepared to change their livery for the Canadian Grand Prix - perhaps go to all black, then the problem goes away, no?

Dave B
20th January 2011, 11:11
I'll be pleased if this livery is banned. Not because of any tobacco link, I couldn't give a hoot, but because anything which annoys Renault is fine by me :D

Bagwan
20th January 2011, 17:14
This is great .
Now Imperial Tobacco is advertising it's smokes with wheels and a finish line .

This is going to get ugly .

edv
21st January 2011, 15:43
As a Canadian smoker, I find it odd that they would single out the Lotus livery, since the JPS cigarettes are marketed and sold in the UK, not Canada (although I suspect they are available here if you look hard enough).

In Canada, the primary Players livery (and packet colours) are evoked by the Players Forsythe cars of the 1990s, which were white & sky blue.

I cannot recall the last time I saw a JPS cigarette pack here, if ever.

Also, it is forbidden to even display cigarettes in a store here....so you cannot even peruse them to discover the packet 'liveries'.

This is all WAY WAY over the top IMO.

Craig Lowndes
21st January 2011, 23:34
Let's face it, if you see a black and gold F1 car and that makes you want to buy cigarettes, I'm afraid it's you with the problem, not the F1 team itself.



Exactly right. Unfortunately common sense and logic are extremely rare in F1 these days and this is another example of the current idiocy going on...

dogbreath
22nd January 2011, 00:29
I have to confess that, having quit smoking for about 12 years, I started again. And what do I smoke... Rothmans a la Williams when I was smoking before.
Plus I endorse somebody's comment that you cannot be sure that teams are not receiving money via some byzantine route involving Liechtenstein, Cayman Islands etc.

Jag_Warrior
22nd January 2011, 03:01
Good grief! Political correctness gone mad!

I'm sure within the next couple of years the feminazis will have the grid girls done away with too.

Yuri Laszlo
22nd January 2011, 04:45
I don't think this is over the top at all. Publicity is all about playing with one's mind and feeding people with ideas and concepts that, at first glance, bare little to no connection to the actual stuff being sold.

If I see two strangers on the street, one smoking a pack of B&H, and the other, Marlboros, I'll "click" much faster with the former, because deep down in the subconscient levels of my psyché I learned that Benson and Hedges is just as cool as Jordan used to be. While this is true for every single type of product, advertising things like alcohol and cigarettes demand particular care, due to these substances' addictive properties.

Naturally, replicating a livery that was used for the last time 25 years ago, in a country where it should have very little impact upon its population isn't a problem. But it sets a precendent. If Renault can get away for blatantly advertising the JPS concept in Canada, then every other tobacco brand will jump on that bandwagon. Same for Ferrari and their Marlboro sponsorship.

As for the argument that they aren't advertising JPS because they're not being paid to do so, that doesn't make any sense. The fundamental principle of publicity is to massively advertise a brand paying as little as possible. Football jerseys are prime examples of that. We actually pay to advertise the brands and products on our favourite team's kits - and if for some reason it becomes a "classic", then I'll still be doing it twenty years later, when some of the companies might not even exist anymore, but people will still know them.



Good grief! Political correctness gone mad!

I'm sure within the next couple of years the feminazis will have the grid girls done away with too.

Well, what use do they have for the people doing/attending the race? :D

Jag_Warrior
22nd January 2011, 05:09
Well, what use do they have for the people doing/attending the race? :D

With the cars getting uglier with each passing season, there's gotta be something pretty to look at. ;)

jarrambide
22nd January 2011, 06:37
So a black car with gold lettering is illegal simply because a single particular brand of cigarettes is also sold in a black package with gold lettering?


Can The canadian govenment prove that the team is receiving financing from Imperial Tobacco and subliminally advertizing cigarettes. Of course not, as that is NOT the case. IS IT? Maybe if there hadn't been a 25 year break since that livery was actually last linked with a cigarette brand and Imperial Tobacco had been proven to be sponsoring the Lotus Renault team, I might say there was some manner of a case, but it's just BS. I suppose I can't have a baby blue and white car either? Or a red and white car? or a yellow car? or a white car? Or a silver and black car?

Wasn't Canada going to impose a law banning ANY branding of cigarette packaging whatsoever? Everyone would have to sell generically packaged cigarettes with a simple name on the package?


Yet another case of liberal f-tards screwing with peoples lives.

Really?, 25 years?, I feel old.

Tumbo
22nd January 2011, 07:28
As for the argument that they aren't advertising JPS because they're not being paid to do so, that doesn't make any sense. The fundamental principle of publicity is to massively advertise a brand paying as little as possible.

Actually it makes a lot of sense when u look at the legislation and the fact that it looks at advertising - there is a distinct difference between publicity and advertising in a legal sense and here the issue at hand will be in relation to the appearance of the said car, the said packaging, what specific arrangements are in place, what the aim of the livery is, the product (herein being the F1 team) and it can all get very muddy. I can't see why this is suddenly an issue in relation to the Lotus livery when the legislation in question has been in force for years and there was no sanctions against Ferrari. What we have here is a colour scheme not a box design, these are two separate things...............but hey perhaps the Canadian legal system will decide that rather than continue to follow along in a similar vein to the UK and Commonwealth courts they will adopt an American 'blast everyone into submission' approach.

nigelred5
22nd January 2011, 15:59
Naturally, replicating a livery that was used for the last time 25 years ago, in a country where it should have very little impact upon its population isn't a problem. But it sets a precendent. If Renault can get away for blatantly advertising the JPS concept in Canada, then every other tobacco brand will jump on that bandwagon. Same for Ferrari and their Marlboro sponsorship.

As for the argument that they aren't advertising JPS because they're not being paid to do so, that doesn't make any sense. The fundamental principle of publicity is to massively advertise a brand paying as little as possible. Football jerseys are prime examples of that. We actually pay to advertise the brands and products on our favourite team's kits - and if for some reason it becomes a "classic", then I'll still be doing it twenty years later, when some of the companies might not even exist anymore, but people will still know them.


Well, what use do they have for the people doing/attending the race? :D

Why in the world would you advertise a product in F1 if you were not being paid to do so? This current Lotus Renault livery has nothing to do with John Player Cigarettes, it has to to with the color scheme most clearly associated with the color scheme worn by Lotus F1 cars in their most successful period. I still argue that a black car with gold pinstriping is hardly advertising JPS without the stylized logo and the company name.

I don't know why this particular issue gets under my skin so bad, but it's just pure BS. Ferrari had better plan on painting their cars white if they are successful against Renault.

Yuri Laszlo
22nd January 2011, 16:33
Why in the world would you advertise a product in F1 if you were not being paid to do so? This current Lotus Renault livery has nothing to do with John Player Cigarettes, it has to to with the color scheme most clearly associated with the color scheme worn by Lotus F1 cars in their most successful period. I still argue that a black car with gold pinstriping is hardly advertising JPS without the stylized logo and the company name.

I don't know why this particular issue gets under my skin so bad, but it's just pure BS. Ferrari had better plan on painting their cars white if they are successful against Renault.

Becuase it's good publicity for Renault as well. The team is in the middle of the battle against another "Lotus" team, if they just paint it in Renault colors, it won't be a Lotus, it will be a Renault.

Now, if the fans see the car painted in a vintage livery, everyone will go "Alright, they really are Lotus". However, that particular paintscheme doesn't make people think only about the Lotus brand, it also makes people think about the John Player's brand, which isn't allowed by Canadian law. You don't have to place giant stickers all over the car for people to go "Oh, that's JPS right there", that's not how our mind works.

As I said previously, the JPS deal might not be a huge issue, as the brand isn't even sold in Canada, but for all the other companies that are busting their asses off to try and come up with a way to advertise themselves without advertising themselves, this is a publicity haven.

Bagwan
22nd January 2011, 18:07
Lines and lines and lines and lines and lines and lines of press .

And , if they keep it up , it's likely they will have Imperial Tobacco sponsorship .

In an odd , backwards kind of way , they already do .

JPS is a growing brand , and Imperial Tobacco is already putting wheels on it's packs in it's advertising , bringing it back into the limelight , and further complicating the situation .

That keeps JPS , Lotus , and Renault on the stage .
And , soon we will be shown some kind of all black livery , specially designed for Canada , so we won't be allowed to forget the links to the JPS gold stripes that will be missing from the grid .

But , then , there will be those who would prefer the stripe to be yellow (as "Look Alikes" are allowed) and they may be very vocal nearing the race .

With Tobacco being so "hot button" , it should be easy to get some talking head to spew some good quote for the corps to mangle about once a week until the race actually happens .
That is one epic campaign .

And , it seems like one directed at Imperial Tobacco , to convince them that a spot in F1 should be something to consider .

The prince would be proud , eh Billy ?

F1boat
22nd January 2011, 18:48
The tyranny of the anti-tobacco brigade is getting more and more disgusting and I say this as a no-smoker. I want to vomit when I see personal freedoms bended "for the greater good". Scum!

christophulus
22nd January 2011, 20:46
On an unrelated note, HRT have hired a Hollywood designer to freshen up their image: http://www.autosport.com/news/grapevine.php/id/89034

Might as well get him to design the car while he's at it... :rolleyes:

Flatsixrules
22nd January 2011, 23:20
It's only an issue in Canada as far as I'm aware. If Renault are prepared to change their livery for the Canadian Grand Prix - perhaps go to all black, then the problem goes away, no?
Our Canadian "smoke Nazis" are so power addled that they would and have, actually taken a colour spectrometer to a race cars paint finish. 2004 Forsythe Champ Car team in Toronto. They were actually at the point of impounding the cars and trailers before saner heads prevailed. The team had been previously sponsored by Players. Lotus/Renault had better make sure they use the "right" shade of black and gold! Morons ... the lot of them!

mstillhere
23rd January 2011, 02:32
That's friggin stupid then. No one has a trademark on colors nor on colors aassociations.

mstillhere
23rd January 2011, 02:37
I agree with you. As a former smoker I barely remember JPS cigarettes. I only had an incontrolable passion for my red pack :)

Rollo
23rd January 2011, 10:44
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3148/2741512527_0c940e7b66.jpg

If you were British American Tobacco, would it not make sense to buy a peppercorn share in a certain battery company, so that you could put "battery sponsorship" on F1 cars?

If I recall correctly, didn't Colin McRae drive a Subaru WRC car sponsored by "batteries"? Hint hint hint. :D

SGWilko
23rd January 2011, 11:49
Lotus/Renault had better make sure they use the "right" shade of black

Deffo they should a dark black. The lght black is too grey for my liking..... :laugh:

John Cummins
23rd January 2011, 14:20
But, F1 has always had the last say on paint schemes regardless who the sponsor is.

SGWilko
23rd January 2011, 15:33
But, F1 has always had the last say on paint schemes regardless who the sponsor is.

Yes, that guy Pollock (apt name if you ask me) learned that the hard way......

Yuri Laszlo
23rd January 2011, 17:56
That's friggin stupid then. No one has a trademark on colors nor on colors aassociations.

Not true. Ferrari claims to have trademarked their shade of red. In a non-racing note, chocolate makers Cadburys(?) is the owner of color purple in New Zealand.

And you thought it couldn't get more ridiculous than that!

Azumanga Davo
23rd January 2011, 17:57
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3148/2741512527_0c940e7b66.jpg

If you were British American Tobacco, would it not make sense to buy a peppercorn share in a certain battery company, so that you could put "battery sponsorship" on F1 cars?

If I recall correctly, didn't Colin McRae drive a Subaru WRC car sponsored by "batteries"? Hint hint hint. :D

Dark blue is like a Satan colour, thanks to Subaru, Ligier, Prost et al. This is why you can't associate colours with anything, they are just sodding colours. Anyone who argues otherwise is... well, rather simple. There, I said it.

mstillhere
23rd January 2011, 18:03
Not true. Ferrari claims to have trademarked their shade of red. In a non-racing note, chocolate makers Cadburys(?) is the owner of color purple in New Zealand.

And you thought it couldn't get more ridiculous than that!

OK then. From now on , yellow siena in MINE!!!

IceWizard
23rd January 2011, 23:50
How bizarre that a simple colour scheme could be considered an issue. Having said that, to me Lotus colours are green and gold and not colours that have only previously been used due a sponsor association.

V12
24th January 2011, 01:21
I think the best nod to Lotus' heritage (this applies to "Lotus"-Renault and Team Lotus) would be to find a sponsor, any sponsor, willing to pay large money to paint the car in their colours. Team Gunston in SA aside they pioneered the whole concept.

Other than that... Tobacco sponsorship tends to make you want to switch brand - not start smoking.

Mark
24th January 2011, 08:34
Trademarks such as this depend on context. So I Ferrari would be able to stop someone making sporty cars or racing cars in their colour red. Similarly Cadbury's would be able to stop someone selling food products under that colour. However they wouldn't be able to enforce a trademark for something completely unrelated, such as painting your front door that colour.

Mark
24th January 2011, 08:36
I think the best nod to Lotus' heritage (this applies to "Lotus"-Renault and Team Lotus) would be to find a sponsor, any sponsor, willing to pay large money to paint the car in their colours. Team Gunston in SA aside they pioneered the whole concept.

Other than that... Tobacco sponsorship tends to make you want to switch brand - not start smoking.

While that is true, I still think the F1 is better without tobacco sponsors, it always made me feel slightly uneasy (only slightly!) as to where the money for my favourite sport was coming from.

ArrowsFA1
24th January 2011, 09:35
I just think if they can ban the Ferrari bar code on the grounds it reminds people of Marlboro, then the black and gold is just as obvious.
I think there is a difference though.

Philip Morris have consistently tried to work around the tobacco ban in F1 and the bar code was another example of that. They have (I think) recently renewed their deal with Ferrari and their clear aim is to promote the Marlboro brand, despite the ban.

Renault/Lotus's use of black & gold does not involve a sponsorship deal. It is purely an historical nod to a colour scheme. It's marketing only in the sense that an existing team are trying to associate themselves with Team Lotus, just as Tony Fernandes has done with a different colour scheme.