New Forums!

[Mark]

I hope you like the new upgrade to vBulletin 4!

There are quite a few things left to do, including implementing the style for mobiles.

I'd be interested to hear if there's anything you'd like to see changed and I'll see about doing it!

[pettersolberg29]

Nice to have a change of furniture!

Not sure if it will happen, but it would be good if when you click on 'Rallying' it comes up with ALL the rallying threads from every subforum in order of time of last post. That was a good part of the last forum layout - it means that you don't miss out on any European or Asian rally news which I would normally miss if I forget to check them. Cheers and good luck Mark.

[MrMetro]

Loving the new look of the forums! :D

[Daniel]

Not liking the overly bright style tbh!

[Mark]

Nice to have a change of furniture!

Not sure if it will happen, but it would be good if when you click on 'Rallying' it comes up with ALL the rallying threads from every subforum in order of time of last post. That was a good part of the last forum layout - it means that you don't miss out on any European or Asian rally news which I would normally miss if I forget to check them. Cheers and good luck Mark.

Done! Although I haven't been able to implement the feature which puts the name of the forum the thread is from yet. The code that controls that is one of the few things which have changed in this version. I also set F1 History & Nostalgia posts to appear in the F1 forum as before - but without their tag saying where they were from, due to the same problem!

[Mark]

Not liking the overly bright style tbh!

Well that's one of the things we can work on in the coming weeks, to get things looking how we want them. So any suggestions welcome!

[DonJippo]

Not liking the overly bright style tbh!

Same here.

[PLuto]

I loved old blue style...

[Daniel]

Hi Mark,

One feature of VB is to be able to resize photos. It kind of works

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/af/Sunset_on_Lake_Kemij%C3%A4rvi,_Finland.jpg

But one of the great things about it is that whilst it should resize the picture, it should give you the option to open the picture up at full res which this forum doesn't.

[pettersolberg29]

Done! Although I haven't been able to implement the feature which puts the name of the forum the thread is from yet. The code that controls that is one of the few things which have changed in this version. I also set F1 History & Nostalgia posts to appear in the F1 forum as before - but without their tag saying where they were from, due to the same problem!

Much appreciated - the subforum title isn't that important as the thread title is normally self-explanatory. Also love the new Quick Reply with quote thing as it used to take ages for my rubbish processor to load the new message page then go back to the thread page!

[dimviii]

Well that's one of the things we can work on in the coming weeks, to get things looking how we want them. So any suggestions welcome!

I also would like a not so bright color.Dark colors are best when you spent time at a site.Also i d like if we could have avatars.Basically i d ask why we dont have.
Cheers Mark!

[Jag_Warrior]

I loved old blue style...

I guess I've finally hit the age where I have trouble dealing with change. But as long as we get to have avatars with this upgrade, I'm good (hint, hint).

[Daniel]

I guess I've finally hit the age where I have trouble dealing with change. But as long as we get to have avatars with this upgrade, I'm good (hint, hint).

Don't quite see the problem with avatars tbh :)

Have a look at this thread on another forum I post on, do the avatars really harm the look of the forum? I could understand why 10 years ago we didn't have them as a good deal of people were on 56k and it would make the forum a terrible experience, but times have changed and I think that they should be allowed because they really don't cause any issues.
http://www.fiatforum.com/500/259286-1-4-twin-air.html

[Jag_Warrior]

Don't quite see the problem with avatars tbh :)

Have a look at this thread on another forum I post on, do the avatars really harm the look of the forum? I could understand why 10 years ago we didn't have them as a good deal of people were on 56k and it would make the forum a terrible experience, but times have changed and I think that they should be allowed because they really don't cause any issues.
http://www.fiatforum.com/500/259286-1-4-twin-air.html

Yeah, if it's a size or bandwidth thing, look at how many of us hot link and post photos in our posts. And if it's a concern about someone using an objectionable avatar... well, we can already post photos. Just establish a limit on how many posts a person has to have before they can upload a custom avatar. Make it 5, 10 or 20... whatever. That way, you eliminate any wise-apples who might want to act cute just to get some attention before they get the boot.

But those of us who have been here for years aren't going to risk a ban over posting a naked girl in our avatar. It's not a HUGE deal to me, but I can't say that I understand the "no avatar" rule anymore... especially now that we have a button to make inserting videos in a post that much easier.

On a more serious note: is there ANY way that we can return to the old style under user options? I've looked and looked and I can't find a way to make it work like I used to. Like in Windows, a person can select the "Windows Classic style" if they don't like the newer styles. I'm not really "feeling it" so far.

But hey, for all your hard work, a big THANKS, Mark. Don't let any criticism be taken too hard. Unless you put rotating pictures of Danica Patrick, Fernando Alonso and Sarah Palin on the front page, I can live with it.

P.S. Avatars, please. Just a small version of this - that's all I want. Pretty please.
http://www.atlasf1.com/2001/bra/preview/teammates/eirvine-h.jpg

[Mark]

I did think that a classic style might be a good idea but the old templates don't work with the new software. I'll have a poke around and see if such a thing exists.

As for avatars, I'll give it some consideration!

[Jag_Warrior]

Thanks, Mark.

[Daniel]

One thing to mention with avatars, I think the forum needs to be setup so the user information is on one side. You don't want avatars making threads longer in terms of scrolling up and down. These days most people have widescreen monitors so it's not like people are going to be losing a huge amount of horizontal space :)

[markabilly]

guess i will get use to it...

[Daniel]

guess i will get use to it...

There's always the door :laugh:

[pino]

As for avatars, I'll give it some consideration!

Please do that ;) Also I think the main page needs more colours, as IMHO the combination of blu/grey only is a bit boring. I would put a warmer colour into those box next to each Forum.

[Mark]

Avatars are go! You can upload your custom avatar from the Settings menu at the top right. All the flags are stil available too.

[pettersolberg29]

Good work Mark, although as someone mentioned earlier, this may cause a bit of vertical growth in posts. My avatar is quite small yet it still makes the box a bit big. I don't care for myself, but this may be a problem for phone users?

[pino]

Avatars are go! You can upload your custom avatar from the Settings menu at the top right. All the flags are stil available too.

That's great...thanks :D

[HaCo]

I would like to see username, avatar and other user related info left of the post like it used to be and how it is on most forums. You loose to much space with it vertically.

[Mark]

Good work Mark, although as someone mentioned earlier, this may cause a bit of vertical growth in posts. My avatar is quite small yet it still makes the box a bit big. I don't care for myself, but this may be a problem for phone users?

Phone users will have their own skin very shortly if I can figure out how to get it working!

[Sulland]

Are you planning to have different skins or layouts for us to choose from, would be nice !

[Mark]

Yes, there's no reason why not. I've created a new skin called "Red", ok it's a bit crap (ok it's a lot crap) but you get the idea :p

[Lousada]

I'm using the standard skin and the thread titles in the forumlist are very small. Also the user names are a little bit smaller than usual. All other text is the normal size.

Also, can we now be allowed to post polls? I always found it strange it is not allowed here.

[pettersolberg29]

Yes, there's no reason why not. I've created a new skin called "Red", ok it's a bit crap (ok it's a lot crap) but you get the idea :p

I'm using it now and its certainly better - the screen no longer blinds my eyes!

[Mark]

Done! Although I haven't been able to implement the feature which puts the name of the forum the thread is from yet. The code that controls that is one of the few things which have changed in this version. I also set F1 History & Nostalgia posts to appear in the F1 forum as before - but without their tag saying where they were from, due to the same problem!

That's sorted now.

[Tumbo]

mmmm - new look not really doing anything for me, but after 8yrs using the same layout any major change would take some getting used to. Avatars is a nice touch but definitely agree that the look is a touch too bright atm.

No matter how whinging there is tho i'm sure we will all get used to it in time

[Mark]

One thing we are definitely going to change are the colours, after all this is the vBulletin default style so we don't want to be keeping that really! So if you have any suggestions or even mockups etc of how things could look then please go ahead!

However changing the colours isn't the priority at the moment while I get stuff working!

[pettersolberg29]

One thing we are definitely going to change are the colours, after all this is the vBulletin default style so we don't want to be keeping that really! So if you have any suggestions or even mockups etc of how things could look then please go ahead!


I like the red skin you did, but maybe change the red to a blue just like the olden days so people recognise the board as soon as they come on it?

[Mark]

As you'll notice, posts are now back in two columns.

[HaCo]

I would like to see username, avatar and other user related info left of the post like it used to be and how it is on most forums. You loose to much space with it vertically.

Thanks for changing, much better! :)

[Lousada]

I'm using the standard skin and the thread titles in the forumlist are very small. Also the user names are a little bit smaller than usual. All other text is the normal size.


Please respond. The "US Gun Laws" thread is for some reason the normal size, while all others are too small.

http://img197.imagevenue.com/loc163/th_63359_forum_122_163lo.jpg (http://img197.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=63359_forum_122_163lo.jpg)

[Mark]

I think that's because for you that thread is unread but the rest you've already read, so won't be of interest to you. At least I think that's the idea.

[MrJan]

I'm not sure that's right, Mark, because most of the other threads show as unread with the little icon jobber.

I think the 'red' skin is fine but agree that blue colour would be nicer (but still on the grey background). Also the avatars seem to have a little border around them that looks a bit turd.

People will always moan about change though, it happened when we went from the old old forum to the old one.

[Steve Boyd]

One thing I can't see now that I found to be useful on the old software (and on other forums) is your last login date/time. Not a big thing but if you could put it somewhere on your "to do" list . . . .
(or at least tell me where it's hiding!!)

[pino]

Please respond. The "US Gun Laws" thread is for some reason the normal size, while all others are too small.

http://img197.imagevenue.com/loc163/th_63359_forum_122_163lo.jpg (http://img197.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=63359_forum_122_163lo.jpg)

I've got the same problem while text is fine on main page now...

[SkyTom]

All the posts titles are far too small to read for me at the moment.

Also, are you able to make it so that you can read a preview of the thread by hovering your mouse over the title like we could do before the change?

[pettersolberg29]

They're all OK for me on the Rallying part of the forum but they weren't yesterday so its being fixed I'm sure!

[Mark]

Also, are you able to make it so that you can read a preview of the thread by hovering your mouse over the title like we could do before the change?

It looks like they've changed the implementation of that. So it works in IE8 but not for me in Firefox.

[airshifter]

Just a bunch of typing to test a theory. I think there may be a format difference between when people use the quick reply or the advanced version. Some of the threads are being formatted to about half the available typed area, but others are not.

[airshifter]

Testing the same theory and using quick reply vs going advanced. Some I'm just typing a bunch of nonsensical trash while trying to help figure it out. Anybody reading this can just disregard.

[airshifter]

Testing the same theory and using quick reply vs going advanced. Some I'm just typing a bunch of nonsensical trash while trying to help figure it out. Anybody reading this can just disregard.

Maybe it's the quotes or maybe Mark already fixed it. I know I'm not imagining it as several posts show the "narrow" format.

[airshifter]

The larger thread titles are much better. I'm getting used to the color myself, the red seemed blinding to me.

Have you already fixed something regarding the format in the form of the overall text area within the box? I've noticed on some threads that the text takes up only about half the available width of the text entry area. (See Pinos post #41 above) I thought it had something to do with quick reply vs advanced, but I just tested that theory and both came out ok, along with a quoted message.

[Mark]

Space reserved for adverts!

[PuddleJumper]

Does anyone else have issues with "Go to first unread post" button? It doesn't seem to work for me, it just takes me to the beginning of that particular thread, or in some cases the last post, even though I've not ready some that preceed it.

I've often thought that it would be nice if the forum didn't automatically mark everything as read once you log out. I don't know if vBulletion has this option, but other forums I frequent use software that does this. It's useful if you can't read all the new posts at one sitting - you know where you left off next time you visit.

[AndySpeed]

I had a little look at motorsport.com today to see if there were still any members missing there...

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5207/5370074866_598e2890af_b.jpg

I wasn't expecting that! :o

[MrJan]

I had a little look at motorsport.com today to see if there were still any members missing there...

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5207/5370074866_598e2890af_b.jpg

I wasn't expecting that! :o

Ha ha, they let me log in fine..and I called them all a bunch of c***s :D

If you're interested they're doing a survey about the website at motorsport.com. I wasn't overly complementary (well okay, I called them thieving *******s) but you can make up your own minds :D

http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/QW3S5B8

[MrJan]

Ha ha, they let me log in fine..and I called them all a bunch of c***s :D

Well that backfired fairly quickly.

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/9664/msfa.jpg

[Mark]

Feel free to take their survey! :D

[BDunnell]

I have had problems logging in from my home; when I try and go to the front page, even after having deleted all cookies and so on, a message comes up saying there is something wrong with my IP address. No problems now from an hotel in Sweden, though!

[pino]

Feel free to take their survey! :D

I did it this morning :hmph: ;)

[slorydn1]

Let's see how long it takes for my ban to take effect......

[Mark]

Looks like they are banning anyone who dares to suggest they may have acquired their forums by less than honest means!

[Daniel]

Looks like they are banning anyone who dares to suggest they may have acquired their forums by less than honest means!

:rotflmao:

Sure is quiet in there :laugh:

Mark, would it be a good idea for people to NOT log into the rebel forums at all? Who knows whether they're capturing passwords perhaps?

[Mark]

Given their recently behaviour I wouldn't put it past them to do such a thing!

[Daniel]

Given their recently behaviour I wouldn't put it past them to do such a thing!

Is it also possible that they're a bunch of ****s?

[Mark]

It's certainly possible :p

[martinbalmer]

Given their recently behaviour I wouldn't put it past them to do such a thing!

I was just about to mention that it would be advisable for people to change their password here in the light of what has happened.

I've also been the Motorsport . con forum and changed that password too (to something else completely - not the same!), deleted any PMs, checked on profile information etc etc...

Surely, since they have made a copy without permission, we as users at least have the right to have all the details they hold on us removed.

[Mark]

Yes. I believe that you can request that any and all information on you is deleted

[AndySpeed]

I was thinking exactly the same thing - however since I've been banned I'm essentially no longer able to control my own information - despite the fact it still exists in a publicly viewable profile. My website, posts, interests and so on are still listed on the website.

Now, given their lack of a licence and so on, surely that cannot be legal.

I would like to remove my profile - having a ban is preventing me from doing so.

Maybe I should speak to my lawyer about this.


Yes. I believe that you can request that any and all information on you is deleted

Are you aware of any particular channels to do this?

[Mark]

As far as I know any course of action would first involve you contacting them directly. Only if they fail to act would you then pursue other means to seek redress. They are a company registered in Florida, so you would have to complain to the authorities there. If enough forum members did this then they might investigate as to what motorsport.com are doing with the database.

[Mark]

Looks like they've been on another banning spree. Brave Dockman and Alright Treacle have been taken out and shot! Harsh!

[Daniel]

Ah Brave Dockman, didn't he run of with Susy and start a pub up with her? ;p

[Daniel]

I get the feeling Caroline might be the next to be banned! :p

[Daniel]

Wonder if I'll be far behind :D The dopey tard doesn't seem to know how to delete threads as yet so I've pretty much vandalised all the decent forums :D

[Daniel]

I'm banned but Caroline isn't! ****s!!!!! :D

[AndySpeed]

Wonder if I'll be far behind :D The dopey tard doesn't seem to know how to delete threads as yet so I've pretty much vandalised all the decent forums :D

It is pretty amusing to see a thread consisting almost entirely of banned members...

The next step is to force them to remove my data so it affects the forum archives.

[Daniel]

Caroline didn't get banned :mark: Not quite sure what thunderbolt is playing at?

[MrJan]

Mark, are you still getting the e-mail as forum administrator? Like Andy I want to have my details removed (it's got my name, DOB, e-mail etc.) but didn't think of this until after I'd been banned and now I'm not quite sure how to do it.

[Mark]

Mark, are you still getting the e-mail as forum administrator?

No I'm completely locked out of those forums, except as a guest. They didn't just ban me, they deleted my account, just to be sure!



Like Andy I want to have my details removed (it's got my name, DOB, e-mail etc.) but didn't think of this until after I'd been banned and now I'm not quite sure how to do it.

Being banned or not doesn't matter! They should still remove your information if asked.

[Mark]

Caroline didn't get banned :mark: Not quite sure what thunderbolt is playing at?

That's funny **** :laugh:

They really don't get it.. I don't presume to speak for the membership here but it really does seem that nobody is interested in posting across there! So what use is the members database?

It would be in their own interests to start a new forum from scratch get their own membership base and compete fairly.

[Daniel]

Mark, are you still getting the e-mail as forum administrator? Like Andy I want to have my details removed (it's got my name, DOB, e-mail etc.) but didn't think of this until after I'd been banned and now I'm not quite sure how to do it.
If you post in enough threads saying that they're ****s or that motorsport.com is run by ****s they'll delete you :D It's happened to me :laugh:

[Daniel]

That's funny **** :laugh:

They really don't get it.. I don't presume to speak for the membership here but it really does seem that nobody is interested in posting across there! So what use is the members database?

It would be in their own interests to start a new forum from scratch get their own membership base and compete fairly.

Very much so :) Unless they intend to sell that information on which is going to cause them a load of trouble......

[martinbalmer]

By the way, in relation to signing in to the rouge forum at MS.C and the possibility of them collecting your password in the process, there is something you can do. Do not enter your username and password when prompted. Instead you can avoid the risk by selecting the Forgotten Password link on that forum (not this one!) and follow the prompts to reset it. Once you've been sent a new password from MS.C forums, use that to login there.

Once in, before posting anything to get banned, go to User CP and progressively work through the sections down the left-hand side - signature, e-mail and password, profile, etc etc. Delete the details in the boxes. Don't seem to be able to edit date of birth for some reason. To delete your e-mail address you will need to change it to something incorrect. Please do not enter something here that could be (or end up being) a valid e-mail address for someone else. I'm not sure if the e-maill address change will stick as you cannot confirm it because you won't receive the link by e-mail to do so. Also, if you plan on contacting them, it may be better to leave your e-mail address intact.

Don't forget to delete your Private Messages.

These steps will remove most of the information. Provided you haven't been banned already and can't get in.

Now I will read back through this thread and find that lot has already been posted!

[donKey jote]

I did think that a classic style might be a good idea but the old templates don't work with the new software. I'll have a poke around and see if such a thing exists.

As for avatars, I'll give it some consideration!

sod the avatars.. where's my flag ? :p :D

[donKey jote]

I had a little look at motorsport.com today to see if there were still any members missing there...

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5207/5370074866_598e2890af_b.jpg

I wasn't expecting that! :o

my ban was for "no reason" :dozey:

[donKey jote]

Avatars are go! You can upload your custom avatar from the Settings menu at the top right. All the flags are stil available too.

duh ! :arrows:
:dozey:

[Daniel]

my ban was for "no reason" :dozey:

Same here. ****s!

[slorydn1]

my ban was for "no reason" :dozey:

As was mine. And I though about doing what Nitro suggested.....but I got myself off'd before I could get around to it :hmh:

[Mark]

Of you change your email address you'll end up getting locked out until you verify it. Which if it's invalid you won't be able to do.

[martinbalmer]

It still seems to let me log in fine even though I've yet to confirm the e-mail address change there.. I have not tried posting anything mind you.

[Mark]

See the latest post on there from NancyS regarding spammers. They can only spot spammers as easily as they do because of modifications to the code I made!

[Mark]

True on the spammers but the bot catcher is used by all "licensed vBulletin" forum boards to notify the SPAM catcher websites. Those website will confirm if a spammer as they that lists them by all the many fake names they use. Plus it really is not that hard to spot them as they register. They all use the same word in the profile information. We try to do the best job we can to get rid of them even those who add "interests" and "birthday" information. Takes just seconds to verify if real or not!

What a load of made up nonsense!

[Daniel]

I find it hilarious. Is anyone even posting?

[MrJan]

I posted something with an old username (i didn't realise it still existed until Mark sent me the "we've moved" e-mail). Nothing more than asking how to contact them as I wasn't sure if the contact thingy was just dropping into deadspace.

[DonJippo]

I got ban as well :hot:


You have been banned for the following reason:

Insulting members without correct facts

Date the ban will be lifted: Never Reason is a bit strange but maybe they found my post five years ago where I said Pino's pizza is no good :p

[pino]

I got ban as well :hot:

Reason is a bit strange but maybe they found my post five years ago where I said Pino's pizza is no good :p

I agree is a strange reason because you know nothing about good food :p :

[Mark]

Not correct facts eh. Is that the one where they reckon the forums belong to them because they hosted them?!

[slorydn1]

I posted something with an old username (i didn't realise it still existed until Mark sent me the "we've moved" e-mail). Nothing more than asking how to contact them as I wasn't sure if the contact thingy was just dropping into deadspace.

Wow...just checked, you're alter ego hasn't been banned yet....and you said almost exactly the same thing I did almost word for word-and I did it in the survey comment box and not the open forum.

I also sent a follow up message via the contact us link at the bottom after being banned....

My profile info is still there.

Mark seems to be the only one who has been completely obliterated.

Makes me wanna call up some of my computer geek friends and have a little virtual package delivered straight to their server-but that would be so unethical :p :

[Mark]

They've now deleted every recent post from the Feedback forum including the ones from their own mods. Very strange.

[donKey jote]

donkey duh :wave:
damn it was cold out there :laugh:

[donKey jote]

Is that handy mouse-over feature to view the first post in a thread still available in this version?
Saves people wasting clicks on donkey threads :)

[Mark]

It does, sometimes.

[Daniel]

Hey guys just thought I'd let you all know that I have been given the job as forum moderator at motorsport.com. If you don't believe me here it is:
http://forums.motorsport.com/showpost.php?p=875813&postcount=6 :p

On a more sad note. I've also been banned and the reason they have given when I try to log in is: "User knows why".... :eek:

I'm guessing they are having some difficulties with the settings. It seems all the regular posters who used to keep the forum busy are now banned? haha.. They've well and truly screwed the place up and the take over obviously wasn't as successful as they had hoped one would assume. They probably thought they could chuck Mark out and everyone would just continue to post with no questions asked. The place is like a ghost town..Oh dear. :dozey:

EDIT: I updated my profile before I left..

:rotflmao: EPIC FAIL! :D

[MrJan]

Wow...just checked, you're alter ego hasn't been banned yet....and you said almost exactly the same thing I did almost word for word-and I did it in the survey comment box and not the open forum.

It's been banned now, but only until 18:00 this evening. The words "earhole from arsehole" spring to mind.

[Mark]

My alter ego has been deleted! Not just banned completely deleted!

How dare they :p

[slorydn1]

My alter ego has been deleted! Not just banned completely deleted!

How dare they :p

They REALLY dont like you :p :

What ticks me off is that I keep asking them to do that to me and they WONT :hmph:

[Daniel]

They REALLY dont like you :p :

What ticks me off is that I keep asking them to do that to me and they WONT :hmph:

It would be interesting to see what happened if someone filed a court case against them in the USA......

[Daniel]

They are obviously watching this discussion, so please moronsport.com can you delete the user profile 'henners88' from your website. I'm touched by the unnecessary ban which I did nothing to deserve but I'd really just like to be removed from your site.....

Many thanks... :)

Hopefully that should do it lol.

You're a moderator, why don't you do it yourself? :rolleyes: :p

[Mark]

They've well and truly screwed the place up and the take over obviously wasn't as successful as they had hoped one would assume. They probably thought they could chuck Mark out and everyone would just continue to post with no questions asked.

I think that was their assumption, yes! In fact I think they assumed quite a few things, like that most users accessed through motorsport.com itself, wrong. That I wouldn't be taking any backups of the forums and therefore just deleting me would be sufficient and that because I didn't have any backups I would have to start from scratch on a site that nobody would visit. All wrong of course. Then they assume that because they restore the forums from backups that everyone will start posting there, wrong again.

If they are reading this then I would like to say to them again, It's not working! Nobody wants to post on your forums! Just start again with a fresh forum install and a new membership and salvage the small shreds of dignity you have left.

[MrJan]

It would be interesting to know what sites people mainly access the forum through. I've always gone direct to rallyforum.com and then resorted to going throuh motorsport.com or btccpages if the link wasn't working, that's the only way that I found out the forums had moved (in the first instance, before I got an e-mail about it).

I'm sure that it seemed like a good idea at the time, wonder if there had been much planning or whether they sort of stumbled across a way to do it. Either way it went off half-cocked and as a number of people are on each others Facebook then it'd have soon got around that they'd stolen the forum.

[Mark]

It would be interesting to know what sites people mainly access the forum through. I've always gone direct to rallyforum.com and then resorted to going throuh motorsport.com or btccpages if the link wasn't working, that's the only way that I found out the forums had moved (in the first instance, before I got an e-mail about it).

I'm sure that it seemed like a good idea at the time, wonder if there had been much planning or whether they sort of stumbled across a way to do it. Either way it went off half-cocked and as a number of people are on each others Facebook then it'd have soon got around that they'd stolen the forum.

I'm pretty sure they'd assumed I wouldn't have a backup.. I wouldn't like to think what would have happened if I didn't however, I somehow doubt they would have let me take a copy. Kind of like squatters changing the locks to your house and claiming you don't own it any more...

They've deleted all accounts with email addresses connected with me now, even my test accounts!

[Retro Formula 1]

I keep popping back to make a nusiance of myself and PM people that are still posting :D

[Mark]

I think you'll be banned pretty soon!

[Mark]

Just looking at my emails and this is one of the original ones from Eric Gilbert, before he decided to take the forums



Mark, you were between a rock and a hard place when Motorsport.com
came to the rescue as the hosting site with only an exchange of advertising
which was very little income to us.

Things to note here. They didn't take over the forums or the posts but was "the hosting site" and he himself states here that the agreement was "only an exchange of advertising".

and here where they offered to buy the forums from me, fairly clear



Would you be open to sell the Motorsport Forums to us?

I think it would make it a bit easier for us to monetize it, since we would
have a better control over the advertising space.

I've never really wanted to be involved with the forums, and I think you're
doing a super job with them, but the fact is that at the moment, they're
costing us more money to host (we're paying hosting fees per MB) than
making. We don't mind so much, but being able to at least to break even would be nice.


I don't like putting private emails in public, but after all we are dealing with what I regard as theft here, and that needs to be put right.
would be nice.

[Retro Formula 1]

:laugh:

Oh dear. I may have one or two back doors ;)

[Mark]

Oh dear.. You've been binned!

[Retro Formula 1]

I thought banning was bad enough but Binning.... that's just cruel :bigcry:

Apparently, I have earned a lifetime ban and no reason was given. The forum rules must have changed recently ;)

And I thought Pino was a bit of a ball breaker during the wrong time of the month :laugh:

[AndySpeed]

Honestly - how long until motorsport.com realise that their website isn't really that good? It has a moderately useful archive section but that's just because it's been around so long. The same goes for it's domain - just because you have one of the TLD's for motorsport doesn't necessarily mean your site is any good.

Combine Autosport and Crash and you have something ten times better than motorsport.com. The move on the forum is a ridiculous step as it could only highlight further the lack of popularity. This forum, ten tenths and Autosport-Atlas are all superior and will remain so simply due to having a larger user base.

I honestly hope this is the beginning of the end for them now.

[slorydn1]

It would be interesting to know what sites people mainly access the forum through. I've always gone direct to rallyforum.com and then resorted to going throuh motorsport.com or btccpages if the link wasn't working, that's the only way that I found out the forums had moved (in the first instance, before I got an e-mail about it).

I originally came to the forums back in 2001 via AR-1, almost by accident. I had been surfing AR-1 on and off for articles,, but didn't notice the forum link. My brother stumbled across it one day and liked what he saw and emailed me if I knew about the site and it's forums. I didn't even notice the link as I wasn't looking, and as the old timers can tell you it was pretty well hidden on the front page back then.

I basicly stopped coming via AR-1 when I stopped going to their site when they started charging for articles and I discovered I could come in directly via www.motorsportforums.com (http://www.motorsportforums.com) bypassing all of the "web magazine" portals. In a way it was actually faster, one less screen to click through to get to forums. Man, we somtimes complain about the load times now, but back then the server was always crashing, and when it did work it was slower than HRT at Spa....

I have been accessing via motorsportforums.com ever since about mid to late 2002. I didn't even know about what happened here recently until I stumbled into this thread, as i was laying low for a few weeks getting my new 'puter fully up and running. In fact when I logged in and did my mischeif to get banned was the first time I can ever remember accessing the forum via motorsport.com, other than maybe that one time last year when we had a bad day with the server and that was just about the only way in.




I'm sure that it seemed like a good idea at the time, wonder if there had been much planning or whether they sort of stumbled across a way to do it. Either way it went off half-cocked and as a number of people are on each others Facebook then it'd have soon got around that they'd stolen the forum.

I fail to see how anyone with a sane mind could have possibly thought it would have been a good idea. I mean, look at forums in general. You have a few hardcore users who post alot, then do something stupid and get banned, or just get mad and leave. Then you look here. I've been here for over 9 YEARS and I'm not considered an "old timer", I'm not one of the orginals. Just glancing at the usernames in this thread alone i have seen several who have been here longer than me, and a couple who have been here since the beginning! That shows me some loyalty exists between the users and Mark. Sure, there are flashier forums out there that have more hardcore users. But here everyone pretty much knows everyone in some small way or another. Take me for example-y'all know what your getting from me ("Oh great, there's Slo, he's getting ready to bore me with some more stats, time to log off-quick, LOL :p :) .

Did they not think that EVEN IF Mark hadn't had a chance to back up everything that there aren't a good number of us out here that wouldn't have been googling anything we could use to find a way to hook back up with him? Do they think we are all that stupid? Pretty lame on their part if ya ask me, heck, even if ya didn't ask (LOL).. ;)

[Retro Formula 1]

Just popped my head in over there and it's like a grave yard.

How are they licencing it Mark because I'm going to do everything I can to ensure they lose money and a couple of calls to my old colleagues at F.A.S.T. should f*ck them up nicely :D

[Daniel]

I sent thunderbolt a PM to tell him everyone was posting here and he's just started a thread on the other forum asking why it is so quiet???

He's also quoted what I sent him via PM yet hasn't joined the rest of us here, whats he doing? :confused:

Does anyone want to contact him as he's a regular poster?

Perhaps he's worried he will lose his profile or something.
Well he posted a strange reply in Donkey Jote's thread which made me think he might be a rebel or something that prefers the moronsport.com forums.

[Mark]

They claim they do have a licence which I don't doubt as they are easy enough to buy. However the PHP code they are using will have my licence number on it and contains all the modifications I made to improve the forums, which is my personal copyright.

[donKey jote]

. Fools.. :p :)

Bunch of donkeys ;) :laugh:

[slorydn1]

I sent thunderbolt a PM to tell him everyone was posting here and he's just started a thread on the other forum asking why it is so quiet???

He's also quoted what I sent him via PM yet hasn't joined the rest of us here, whats he doing? :confused:

Does anyone want to contact him as he's a regular poster?

Perhaps he's worried he will lose his profile or something.

I sent him one also earlier this week from my wife's log in....something tells me he's a plant. Don't mess with him anymore....

[306 Cosworth]

I've still not been banned from there and I went on and called them all a bunch a c**ts :s (Yeah that's right i'm a keyboard warrior :p : )

This was a PM I had from one of the mods



Dear 306 Cosworth,

You have received an infraction at Motorsport.com Forums.

http://forums.motorsport.com/showthread.php?p=876080

Reason: Could not find phrase 'infractionlevel5_title' [1/0].
-------

-------

This infraction is worth 100 point(s) and may result in restricted access until it expires. Serious infractions will never expire.

All the best,
Motorsport.com Forums

That mod also only had 6 posts to his name :s

[Mark]

I got banned.. again! Didn't even post anything :hmh:

[Daniel]

I got banned.. again! Didn't even post anything :hmh:

Well they would be suspicious of anyone who was joining the forum, I mean why would you join? :D

[MrMetro]

I'm starting to wish one person hadn't followed us over to these forums as the Chit Chat section is now once massive troll fest. Its certainly restricting my interest.. :dozey:

see, that's where no grip racing have got it right, on their forum, they ban conversations on politics and religion, result, no annoying heated conversations in which people get abusive

[Mark]

Or like motorsport.com where they ban everyone. So there is no conversation, at all!

[MrMetro]

I've just posted on 'that' website, asking why they had banned you, I'm waiting to see how long it is until I'm banned :/

[Retro Formula 1]

Actuallt Mark, what is the T&C's regarding privacy etc. I signed up to the forum and if I'm right, the forum I signed up to is here. Any personal data on the other forum is stolen isn't it

[Daniel]

Actuallt Mark, what is the T&C's regarding privacy etc. I signed up to the forum and if I'm right, the forum I signed up to is here. Any personal data on the other forum is stolen isn't it

I agree. You gave motorsportforums.com permission to do what he wants with your posts, not moronsport.com

[markabilly]

Just looking at my emails and this is one of the original ones from Eric Gilbert, before he decided to take the forums



Things to note here. They didn't take over the forums or the posts but was "the hosting site" and he himself states here that the agreement was "only an exchange of advertising".

and here where they offered to buy the forums from me, fairly clear



I don't like putting private emails in public, but after all we are dealing with what I regard as theft here, and that needs to be put right.
would be nice.

Simple.
Just sue them or quit whining.

Or just go after them...mano a mano......opps, i just remembered many of your posts...okay, just whine on :dozey:


See Bolton, that is how you do it in the Henners-bdunnel style

[markabilly]

I'm starting to wish one person hadn't followed us over to these forums as the Chit Chat section is now once massive troll fest. Its certainly restricting my interest.. :dozey:

I was just thinking the same thing about a certain trio who has to always turn it into something personal......

[henners88]

Simple.
See Bolton, that is how you do it in the Henners-bdunnel style
What on earth is that supposed to mean? Feel free to PM me your answer.

I was just thinking the same thing about a certain trio who has to always turn it into something personal......
Well at least I am positive this little remark isn't aimed at me as I have not insulted you or taken anything you have said personally. Lets keep this thread alive talking about how to improve the new forums. Too many potentially good threads are being closed simply because people can't behave themselves. :)

[Daniel]

Personally I think drivel such as that spouted by markabilly should just be deleted. It spools good threads like this

[Mark]

Actuallt Mark, what is the T&C's regarding privacy etc. I signed up to the forum and if I'm right, the forum I signed up to is here. Any personal data on the other forum is stolen isn't it

That's my view, yes.

[Mark]

As I understand the copyright situation. Any posts you submit to the site you retain the copyright for, however by submitting to the forums, you give the forum owner (me) a licence to use that work for the purposes of displaying on the discussion forum. I'd be permitted to copy it as much as necessary to maintain it in that format. I couldn't then use that post as my own work, as you own the copyright. But the only two parties here are the poster and the forum owner, sites which link to the forums and web hosts are not part of that at all!

At least that's my understanding.

As for anyone who has said it's theft? Well I'd be careful using words such as that as at least under UK law the definition involves "Intent to permanently deprive", we've got the posts so we haven't been permanently deprived.

[MrJan]

They've now posted a statement regarding the change:


Motorsport.com is taking the website and forums into a new exciting direction. Unfortunately, Mark disagreed with the upcoming changes, and therefore we have parted ways. We wish Mark all the best on his future endeavors, we look forward to continuing to provide the best racing photos and news possible to the motorsport racing community.

I'm no longer bothered about any of it, we've still got our forums and the majority of the same users (mores the pity), but I've sent another message asking for my profile to be deleted or for me to be allowed access to delete the information.

[Mark]

Motorsport.com is taking the website and forums into a new exciting direction.Ok.


Unfortunately, Mark disagreed with the upcoming changesI did? They didn't tell me about any changes whatsoever for me to agree to or not agree to! The only thing they might be referring to is them buying the forums from me, which I did disagree with!

It would be interesting to find out what these changes actually are, as I have no idea!

[Mark]

BTW there are comments over there saying "which is the real forums etc". Personally I don't have any problem with motorsport.com running their own forums, in fact the best of luck to them. It's only the fact they are using the user database and posts from this website to start it off. But as you've said it seems that at least 99.9% of the membership is here, not there, so in the end it makes little difference.

[schmenke]

...I've sent another message asking for my profile to be deleted or for me to be allowed access to delete the information.

Hey barry, let us know how they respond, because I'd like to do the same, but I'm honestly hesitant to post anything there :mark: .
Cheers.

[schmenke]

Ok.

I did? They didn't tell me about any changes whatsoever for me to agree to or not agree to! The only thing they might be referring to is them buying the forums from me, which I did disagree with!

It would be interesting to find out what these changes actually are, as I have no idea!

Sounds similar to the whole Team Lotus - Lotus Racing fiasco... :p :

[MrJan]

Hey barry, let us know how they respond, because I'd like to do the same, but I'm honestly hesitant to post anything there :mark: .
Cheers.

Pfft, when I changed from Miguel Sanchez you refused to call me by my real name, and now that I'm on a fake name again you'll happily call me Barry. Unbelieveable :D :p :

Not holding out much hope for a reply, I used an old username to ask about it and they just deleted the thread. If you haven't been banned then just follow the advice that was posted earlier in the thread. Change your password, enter fake birthdays, delete any other information and create a new e-mail address that you don't intend to use (I've got several 'burners' that I just use when I'm expecting spam e-mail or stuff that I'm not really interested in).

Barry.

[schmenke]

Pfft, when I changed from Miguel Sanchez you refused to call me by my real name, and now that I'm on a fake name again you'll happily call me Barry. Unbelieveable :D :p :
....

Quit doing that already! :p :

[Mark]

wor Dave got himself banned :p

[Daniel]

The problem is that whilst Barry is a manly name, Jan is a girls name :p

[MrJan]

The problem is that whilst Barry is a manly name, Jan is a girls name :p

No, Janet and Janice are girls' names. Saying that Jan is a girls name is like saying Dan is a girls name ;)

[Mark]

I can't reply to Mixa on the motorsport.com forums so I'll do so here


Also admin in here had written to the note a couple of days ago that he wishes all the best for Mark with motorsportforums and just that them disagreed with the way of the future of the forums. For me sounds like them splitted still atleast on some kind of agreement.

I didn't agree or disagree on the future of the forums as this was never discussed with me. Except for them wanting to take sole control, for which they initially offered me cash, which I declined. They then took control anyway. There was not, as is not any 'argreement'.



Also probably the banned members has requested that themselves or has really deserved it kinda. Yeah,critics are for good but when them includes words with **** what I´ve seen a lot at the past couple of days, at any forum thats not accepted,right?? Also at Mark´s point, I don´t see text, banned what means that at most of the forums, he is just a locked user.

I didn't get banned, I got deleted, which amounts to the same thing except it's irreversible.



What still comes to motorsportforums , also if I´m right advertising of the other forums were forbidden, even at the days when everyone was in here. It´s often even at the forum rules... Also claiming motorsportforums as the only "REAL" forums and sending dozen of PM´s by some people a day to "REAL" forums has been a right thing to do then?? I got 12 PM´s at one single day and when curiously tried to ask for why? no one didn´t replied me back... just finded out the reasons a few days later from that report.

Motorsport.com only ever linked to MotorsportForums.com (and hosted it too but that's an entirely seperate issue). The majority of posts were not made through motorsport.com, but all were made through motorsportforums, therefore I think the question of which the 'real' forums are is clear, they are here. The forums at motorsport.com are a copy, we can argue all we like as to if that copy is authorised or not etc, but the fact remains is that they are a copy.


In the end I have good memories from here and yes, It´s very sad what happened in here.

Well we can agree on that, at least :)

[MrJan]

I'd love to have sent a reply to the PM that I got back after contacting Mixa, unfortunately I was banned before I had the chance....then my other account got banned.

[MrJan]

Just read the post, what's Mixa playing at? The forum at Motorsport.com is only the same in name and appearance, virtually all the users have migrated to here, as have the admin and moderators. Effectively motorsport.com is a new forum that's just operating on old posts. I really hope that Mixa does come across, there are only about 3 or 4 people posting on that forum and those that are shown as logged in are probably a few visitors popping back to inform the stragglers.

[Mixa]

Thanks to all everyone,who has been sending a PM to me or has been trying to PM, I know now that those all has been for a good cause. I´m sorry if I have been harming any of you guys and girls with my words,while beeing a bit defensive down there. I also just sended Mark a PM where I describe to him personally why I´ve still been also there even when I´m aware of those forums just beeing pretty much a copy. I just want to remain as a bit more open minded what comes to this case. Hopefully atleast there are a few who understands me.

Mixa

[janneppi]

Since I've always come here through rallyforum I wondered what the whole mess was. And I just now realised who that Barryfullofcake was. Weird times indeed. :)

[N4D13]

This is how I see the list of threads when I enter any sub-forum:

http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/2527/forumfail.th.png (http://img197.imageshack.us/i/forumfail.png/)

I've moved the thread pictures to the centre of the screen, so as to give you a full view of it, but they originally appear in the right edge of the screen, so I need to scroll right to be actually able to read the threads.

I'm using Firefox 4.0 Beta 10, so I'd like to know whether this is caused by the beta build or if it's a general problem for Firefox users (or simply everyone).

[AndySpeed]

I'm using Firefox 3.6.13 and experiencing no such problems so perhaps it's because you're using a Beta version.

[306 Cosworth]

Well i've been banned. Don't know why though. Probably because I posted on this thread.

[AndySpeed]

The bans were all fair as most received a ban due to postings that contained foul language, negative comments and many actually were posting insults. All against the ethics of any public forum. Some actually requested a ban which was honored by the Moderators while others used "alias" and "back doors". In both cases, the "person" had plenty of time change their profile and erase their data. Since January 11th, a few did login and make changes and then left quietly changed what they wanted and left. They were not banned nor did they ask for one. Everyone was and is free to make their own choice and decision.

Since I cannot post my answer there I'll do so here.

Whilst it may be true that some people were using foul language and posting 'insults' to get their bans, the same was not the case for me. In fact, I was one of the first to get a ban because I, with good will and community spirit, posted a message directing users to this forum. I was given no warnings, no suggestion that a ban which would lock me out from my personal information was imminent.

The actions of motorsport.com are, at best, peurile and smack of the fact that they know what they're doing is inherently wrong.

If anyone from motorsport.com reads this I respectfully request that my ban is overturned so that I can take action as described in the above post - have access to my data and remove it.

[N4D13]

I'm using Firefox 3.6.13 and experiencing no such problems so perhaps it's because you're using a Beta version.
All right, thank you. I've already reported the bug, so let's hope that it's fixed for Beta 11! :p

I've already had problems with the previous beta versions, so I'm sure that it's just Firefox's fault. ;)

[donKey jote]

Since I cannot post my answer there I'll do so here.

Whilst it may be true that some people were using foul language and posting 'insults' to get their bans, the same was not the case for me. In fact, I was one of the first to get a ban because I, with good will and community spirit, posted a message directing users to this forum. I was given no warnings, no suggestion that a ban which would lock me out from my personal information was imminent.

The actions of motorsport.com are, at best, peurile and smack of the fact that they know what they're doing is inherently wrong.

If anyone from motorsport.com reads this I respectfully request that my ban is overturned so that I can take action as described in the above post - have access to my data and remove it.

same here :wave:

Bunch of Donkeys :dozey: :p

[Mark]

According to their latest posts all the bans were deserved. Mostly for 'negative comments', I wonder why that was?!

I do wonder why I was banned as I've never posted there :p

[Daniel]

I did ask for a ban :D

[MrJan]

Fair enough I made a few silly comments and threw around some insults, but I've been a member of this forum for years and all along Mark has happily gone about his work without fuss and without taking donations or anything (a lot of other forums seem to ask for money). Now I get that the switch was probably meant to be seemless but it wasn't, the crossover was very messy and still hasn't exactly been rectified. Now because of this they are holding onto my personal details without allowing access or even just deleting the data.

If someone from the new motorsport.com is reading this I'd just like to ask that they delete my old profile. I'm not planning on using that forum at all, I'd just like for my information to be struck from the record and I'll ignore the site completely.

[donKey jote]

If someone from the new motorsport.com is reading this I'd just like to ask that they delete my old profile. I'm not planning on using that forum at all, I'd just like for my information to be struck from the record

same here :wave:

:andrea: :p

[christophulus]

All right, thank you. I've already reported the bug, so let's hope that it's fixed for Beta 11! :p

I've already had problems with the previous beta versions, so I'm sure that it's just Firefox's fault. ;)

I'm having the same problem with b10, glad it's not just me! Worked fine with b9 so I assume it's a problem with Firefox itself.

Fair enough I made a few silly comments and threw around some insults, but I've been a member of this forum for years and all along Mark has happily gone about his work without fuss and without taking donations or anything (a lot of other forums seem to ask for money). Now I get that the switch was probably meant to be seemless but it wasn't, the crossover was very messy and still hasn't exactly been rectified. Now because of this they are holding onto my personal details without allowing access or even just deleting the data.

If someone from the new motorsport.com is reading this I'd just like to ask that they delete my old profile. I'm not planning on using that forum at all, I'd just like for my information to be struck from the record and I'll ignore the site completely.

Just found my way back. Noted the remarks and to the one I quoted, you do not show there as I did view the member list, nor did Mark. Perhaps they are cleaning house but I did still show there so just went in and removed my profile information. Of course I did not ask for a ban or post anything in a long long time. I saw AndySpeed on there and he was not showing as ban but no Mark at all. Hope I am now gone and as much as I read what others say, I think I will bow out of both profiles. Too old for the games now and enjoying my retirement!

[Mark]

Banned members don't show on the members list. And of course deleted ones don't exist at all.

[MrJan]

Just found my way back. Noted the remarks and to the one I quoted, you do not show there as I did view the member list, nor did Mark. Perhaps they are cleaning house but I did still show there so just went in and removed my profile information. Of course I did not ask for a ban or post anything in a long long time. I saw AndySpeed on there and he was not showing as ban but no Mark at all. Hope I am now gone and as much as I read what others say, I think I will bow out of both profiles. Too old for the games now and enjoying my retirement!

I've changed my forum name since the switch so the motorsport.com site has my old username (which was confusingly my real name). I looked back in on a guest account and found one of my old posts and it links quite clearly to my profile which has my msn address etc.

I've now sent another message which was a bit more measured. TBH I think that they'd be better off deleting the posts altogether, I think people are far more likely to join a completely new forum than they are to join one which is quiet.

[schmenke]

I just noticed that some of the threads in the Chit Chat forum are now closed for no apparent reason :cornfused:

And henners88 is showing up as a moderator :eek:

[slorydn1]

You better believe it!!
Anymore lip and I'll ban you sunshine.. :)

Now THAT I'd like to see, LOL :D

[slorydn1]

I didn't swear, at all, I didnt even post in the forum itself. I sent them a message via their comment section on the survey and asked that I and all my posts be removed forthwith...and I even wished them luck!
I was gone in less than 30 minutes. As of my last check (yesterday) my info is STILL THERE.......
Im starting to think, however, that by banning me, they may have thought they were partially honoring my request (as Mark said, banned users don't show up in the user list) BUT with the thousands of posts still there, all one has to do is click on the name of the poster (me) and it goes straight to the profile page, banned or not. Im beginning to think they just really don't know what they are doing yet as evidenced by other user's posts in this thread alone....

[Don Capps]

It is obvious that I arrived quite late to the meeting and, therefore, something at a loss regarding what has been going on around here. From prior tidbits picked up here and there as well as persuing this thread, I now have something of a better idea as to what all the brouhaha seems to be about.

In all honesty, I had long forgotten that this forum even existed. I joined on 19 December 2003 and my last posting was on 24 May 2006 while I was still in either Iraq or Kuwait -- hard to say since I was always going back and forth at that time. It was my practice many years ago to observe -- and participate -- in various fora even while continuing to run The Nostalgia Forum at what was then still AtlasF1, which was later bought by Haymarket and is now Autosport.com.

I have something of a better appreciation than most here for what Mark might be experiencing since I no longer exist as far as Autosport is concerned. In mid-November 1999, "The Nostalgia Forum" -- better known as simply "TNF" -- was launched at AtlasF1. No, I did not name it, given that I was tied up with thinking about other things -- just an impeding assumption of command -- and had not given that much thought. The editor of Atlas, Bira Goren, decided on the name and given that I could not come up with anything she liked and the launch date was essentially "now," we went with her suggestion, a decision I have regretted everyday for over eleven years.

I should add that beginning in April 1999 I began writing a column entitled "Rear View Mirror" for the AtlasF1 Journal. It was this column and my basic disgust with the existing forum that led to TNF being created.

Through luck, good fortunate, and hard work, TNF actually and miraculously began to become what I had hoped, a forum devoted to automobile racing history, although with far too much nostalgia for my taste. However, the editor's wishes were the editor's wishes and better a forum that was a 60-75% or so solution than no forum at all. I will not go into much of the background, but there were more than a few disagreements and much stress in the relationship between yours truly and the editor over the direction of the forum and even the column. This eventually led to issues that finally reached the melting point on my part. After offering to buy the forum or at least renegotiate our arrangement, both of which fell through, essentially, I left before I was booted out.

Let me add that the forum had attracted the likes of Doug Nye, Karl Ludvigsen, Graham Gauld, David McKinney, and a number of others from that community to participate in that forum, plus others such as Vic Elford, Brian Redman, and even Dan Gurney to pop into the forum at various times. Plus, we tackled a number of sticky historical issues and often came to some resolution regarding them.

I did return after the "meltdown" of 2004, there was a very different ambiance and direction, the current moderator often being well-meaning, but is certainly not a historian by any measure. Informed and knowing to an extent, yes, but that is scarcely the same as being a historian. Not criticism as much as a reflection that he fit the mold that the editors past and present find more to their liking -- plus, he is British, a point in his favor given the change in ownership several years ago.

Despite the hard feelings, I did return to TNF simply because -- no offense -- there was not and is not anything that comes close to it regarding the discussion of automobile racing history generally available. Even in its greatly diminished form, TNF still manages to remain the class of the genre, which is, to be blunt, not all that much of a challenge given the competition -- again, no offense meant, simply stating bald facts. Indeed, I did continue to contribute to those discussions I thought worthwhile and ignored the rest of the rubbish and fluff, which had now become the mainstay of the forum.

However, I no longer exist at TNF. As either "Don Capps" or "H Donald Capps" my existence has been zapped into the eternal ether, to the infinite and beyond, as they say. The heavy-handedness and utter stupidity of those running Autosport.com continues to amaze me. For inexplicable reasons I was recently given the aforementioned heave-ho as a forum participant. No ugly posts or bricks through the screen, simply the all too usual small-mindedness of that ilk.

Which, finally, brings me to this, the reason that motivated me to write this post in the first place:


As I understand the copyright situation. Any posts you submit to the site you retain the copyright for, however by submitting to the forums, you give the forum owner (me) a licence to use that work for the purposes of displaying on the discussion forum. I'd be permitted to copy it as much as necessary to maintain it in that format. I couldn't then use that post as my own work, as you own the copyright. But the only two parties here are the poster and the forum owner, sites which link to the forums and web hosts are not part of that at all!

At least that's my understanding.

As for anyone who has said it's theft? Well I'd be careful using words such as that as at least under UK law the definition involves "Intent to permanently deprive", we've got the posts so we haven't been permanently deprived.

This was, indeed, one of my questions that I posed to the nameless, faceless entities running the Autosport site: their stance is that they own the rights* to whatever is posted, a position which, naturally, I not only questioned but expressed my objections to rather loudly. That no one ever bothered to respond to my queries regarding this was, I realized, the typical way that they handled such things. Then one day, no warning or rationale provided, I was vanished. Not banned, but simply ceased to exist, my existence blotted from the record, an act similar to what Winston Smith may have performed.

Although my brief in the "goodness" of fora as a means for encouraging and furthering the discussion and research into topic relating to automobile racing history is scarcely a single percent of what it once was some years ago, I still think that it is worth the effort to continue that effort, even as hopeless and fruitless as it seems to be. There seems to be generally information-rich environment on the internet which continues to be staggeringly knowledge-poor. Despite a lessening of any real hope of accomplishing my original goal I set for TNF, the professorial streak in me prods me to continue the quest, although I am now on the cusp of finally throwing in the towel and restricting my time to my other writing.

At any rate, interesting to wind up here solely because I got an email regarding a forum I had long since forgotten and then read all the trials and tribulations that Mark and others are experiencing.

HDC


* Note: This was actually round two of a disagreement regarding my writings, the Atlas editor and I have a sharp disagreement as to whom actually owned what was written in my many coiumns from 1999 to 2004.

[Mark]

Interesting post, thanks for sharing. Before I started this forum I did used to read AtlasF1 and remember your name from there. I hope you can stick around and share some of your insights here.

[CNR]

I sent thunderbolt a PM to tell him everyone was posting here and he's just started a thread on the other forum asking why it is so quiet???

He's also quoted what I sent him via PM yet hasn't joined the rest of us here, whats he doing? :confused:

Does anyone want to contact him as he's a regular poster?

Perhaps he's worried he will lose his profile or something.

got the PM on 23rd Jan 11 but the link had been change to take me back therestill waiting to get a ban from there

[MrJan]

Still no replies to my many attempts at contact. I've now put a message up on their facebook page in the hope that they'll pay more attention.

[MrJan]

Success!!! Tried logging in on the off chance and it seems that I had limited priveleges so could delete all my information :D

[CNR]

just go an make a post with a title like hay sware word ban me space word out to get around auto sensor (f_u_n)thunderbolt Guest

[MrMetro]

Just been reading the old forums. This is tamburello is saying:


I'm looking forward to whatever plans there are for this forum.

The racists, bigots and bully-boys that have flown elesewhere won't be missed by me.

Hardly surprising that they have all clung together, as that is what the weak do.

It seems the old forum is where all the banned members are going

[Mark]

It'll be interesting to see how the new forum works itself out and how it looks. However I fear that the admin may be looking to charge (I believe that this was the source of the disagreement with Mark in the first place), if that happens then I can't see it being a viable option. Without people posting regularly it'll be hard to attract new users, especially with so many free forums that offer similar services. And without the traffic of the regulars that Mark's forum had I can't see the google ads bringing in more revenue, in fact I'd imagine it's shrunk quite a bit.

Just thought I'd clear up a point posted at motorsport.com. Despite what they say there was no disagreement about the future of the forums, except that they wanted to buy them and I didn't want to sell. So they took them anyway.

I no more clue about what their plans are/were than anyone else.

[MrJan]

they wanted to buy them and I didn't want to sell. So they took them anyway.

Sounds like a disagreement to me. As far as I can tell they only offered to buy them because they weren't making money, ergo they want to start charging (I can't see how else they can bring in more cash). You said no so that counts as disagreement and then they stole them. I didn't mean that you disagreed in the way that they make out in the announcement, that makes it sound like it was a polite parting of ways.

[Mark]

Yes, I'd say that's true. Just that they seem to make out that it was a disagreement over some aspect of their future plans. Which it wasn't.

[Dave B]

You need room 12A.

[Mark]

Let's be clear here. That the present situation was not their objective. My admin account on the forum was deleted without warning, it was only that I was doing daily backups after I rejected their offer that I was able to restart the forum on a new server.

It's clear to me that their intention was to get rid of me and deprive me of the posts and member information leaving me only with the domain name.

If what they achieved amounts to theft can be argued as I still do have the data, but it's clear their intention was to steal the forums from me.

[donKey jote]

bunch of donkeys :p

[Daniel]

Yes, I'd say that's true. Just that they seem to make out that it was a disagreement over some aspect of their future plans. Which it wasn't.

That's not what you told me on MSN :p you said they wanted to change the forum font to Comic Sans and you didn't want them too :angryfire :p

[Daniel]

If what they achieved amounts to theft can be argued as I still do have the data, but it's clear their intention was to steal the forums from me.

Delete the data and take them to court :D

[MrJan]

At the end of the day though you haven't really lost out as you still have the forum and nearly all the members have followed you anyway.

As Tamby is staying at Motorsport.com it can probably be considered a victory :D

[CNR]

http://www.plagiarism.org/plag_article_what_is_plagiarism.html

What is Plagiarism?

Many people think of plagiarism as copying another's work, or borrowing someone else's original ideas. But terms like "copying" and "borrowing" can disguise the seriousness of the offense:

According to the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary, to "plagiarize" means
•to steal and pass off (the ideas or words of another) as one's own
•to use (another's production) without crediting the source
•to commit literary theft
•to present as new and original an idea or product derived from an existing source.

In other words, plagiarism is an act of fraud. It involves both stealing someone else's work and lying about it afterward.

But can words and ideas really be stolen?

According to U.S. law, the answer is yes. The expression of original ideas is considered intellectual property, and is protected by copyright laws, just like original inventions. Almost all forms of expression fall under copyright protection as long as they are recorded in some way (such as a book or a computer file).

All of the following are considered plagiarism:
•turning in someone else's work as your own
•copying words or ideas from someone else without giving credit
•failing to put a quotation in quotation marks
•giving incorrect information about the source of a quotation
•changing words but copying the sentence structure of a source without giving credit
•copying so many words or ideas from a source that it makes up the majority of your work, whether you give credit or not (see our section on "fair use" rules)

Most cases of plagiarism can be avoided, however, by citing sources. Simply acknowledging that certain material has been borrowed, and providing your audience with the information necessary to find that source, is usually enough to prevent plagiarism. See our section on citation for more information on how to cite sources properly.

[woody2goody]

All I can say is I'm happy that the community has found a new home :)

And Mark, screw them, let them have their 5 members and Tamburello :p

[CNR]

All I can say is I'm happy that the community has found a new home :)

And Mark, screw them, let them have their 5 members and Tamburello :p

and a Moderator who joined on 14th Jan 11 and has a Total of 5 Posts

[Mark]

Their latest reply on the forum they claim that they 'have the rights and have for over 9 years'. What a complete and total pile of nonsense! They hosted the forums and linked to them, nothing more. They also claim to have the 'legal paperwork' well they can't have as I have never seen any, unless they dreamed it up themselves but I never agreed to that so it makes it worthless anyway.

They also say they paid for and upgraded the server, well that's true but that was on no implication of ownership.

I am grateful for the years they hosted the forums, I guess being swindled is the price I ultimately had to pay for that.

Anyway I achieved my objective over there into posting a justification and they did, albeit a load of crap. But I'm finished over there so my account can be deleted (again!)

[Mark]

Which poster are you Mark?

If you read the thread I think that much is self evident :p

[Mark]

Apparently I was somehow tricked into revealing how I was, after I'd decided to finish. At least Nancy admits she's talking a load of nonsense, and we know this forum is being watched :wave:

Anyway, it doesn't matter, I've always thought that once posts are off the front page of a forum they might as well not exist, plus the only thing which matters is the members posting right now, and I'm very fortunate that all but perhaps one have stayed with the genuine forums, so what they do 'over there' doesn't really matter one bit.

I did suggest that they would be better off starting from scratch, but then that's exactly what they've ended up having to do :D

In the meantime we can get down to the business of the F1 season rolling around once again :cool:

[pino]

What annoys me most is that I've asked them (via email as my account has been deleted) to delete all my threads/posts too, but no reply so far and my posts are still there as a "guest"... ja right 22.000 posts as a guest :rolleyes:

[CNR]

What annoys me most is that I've asked them (via email as my account has been deleted) to delete all my threads/posts too, but no reply so far and my posts are still there as a "guest"... ja right 22.000 posts as a guest :rolleyes:

http://www.phpbb.com/community/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2105178


It all depends on the laws of the country where the server is . In holland for exqample one can ask for posts to be deleted and the site owner must delete them except if it ruins the flow of the site . That means that single posts must be deleted but if you have started a thread your starting post wont be deleted .

The idea about putting things in the site rules that say that the content belongs to the site owner or that the site owner has the right to decide if he deletes post are useless if the law of the country your server is in says something else . Laws come before site rules

i think if you can prove that you signed up with with motorsport forum and not motorsport.com they would have to remove all the posts

[pino]

I've already sended 2 email and got no replies so what else I can do when I've no access to their forum, hence I cannot contact them via pm ? :s I guess I just have to give up and move on :)

[Mark]

I have to make one point clear


jackdSome Threads were deleted due to reasons of harrassing someone
on purpose both on the forums and in personal emails.

We do agree with you.

We do thank you for your comments.


I don't know exactly what he's referring to but I haven't emailed anyone at motorsport.com for a long while.

[Mark]

It seems that I have been deleted -- again! :crazy:

good looking

[MrJan]

I have to make one point clear



I don't know exactly what he's referring to but I haven't emailed anyone at motorsport.com for a long while.

I think that may have been something I sent via the 'Contact Us' thing. I wasn't exactly complimentry in the early stages :erm:

Anyway I decided to have a look to see how things at motorsport.com/forums had progressed in the last month or so and much to my surprise...well actually it's going terribly for them. The number of regular posters seems to be Mixa + race director + mods and admin. Most sections are left untouched since the switch and the keenest thread is in the feedback section and is more about the new look of the motorsport.com website than the forum...it's also almost all negative.

Lives and learns I guess.


Oh and they seem to have a bit of a sticky infestation in the F1 forum, someone went a bit mad with the old threads and doesn't seem to have worked out how to get rid of them.