Baltimore Update [Archive] - Motorsport Forums

Hoop-98

10th December 2010, 00:21

Just as important as number of tickets (likely more) is dollars of tickets. When a city is involved we tend to get a better look at that number (look back at CART Miami) and it bears no relationship to "tickets distributed".

At the first San Jose race we walked in on friday and no one counted us, yet by noon they had a 50,000 figure?

Not picking on CART/CC I just have a lot more experience with their races.

I think if you sell 40, 000 ticket packages and have 120,000 3 day attendance you are more viable than the Vegas, San Jose, and Denver rounds.

I am always suspect of the 'City races" but wish Baltimore the best, I think I will find a way to get there.

At the last Houston race i was on the phone with Ticketmaster, my tickets weren't there, a guy behind me opened his briefcase and and gave my 4 full race packages with pit access etc, that was easier than fixing the ones I bought.

rh

evetorris

10th December 2010, 06:36

Pretty good.

nigelred5

10th December 2010, 18:02

I was looking at those VIP tickets. Honestly, $895's a nice lump of cash, but hmmmmm. Less than I would spend travelling to an "away" race. If I factor in my food and especially my drink for three full days, I'm probably going to be damn close to that.

"Guaranteed to the be the place to be on race weekend, the VIP Balcony Club will be an exclusive area on the Baltimore Convention Center balcony on the corner of West Conway and Howard Streets giving you broad views of Turns 5, 6 and 7, and the entrance to Pit Lane.
The VIP Balcony Club includes:
Three day exclusive access to the Convention Center Balcony
Three day full access Paddock Pass for each ticket purchased
Private catered reception area in the Convention Center
Premium food package including breakfast, lunch and dinner all three days
Complimentary alcoholic and non-alcoholic beverages all weekend
Complimentary snacks all weekend
Air conditioning, restrooms and seating in the Convention Center
Closed-circuit TVs for following the action around the track
Convenient access to the Party Zone where all of the concerts will take place "

Hoop-98

13th December 2010, 23:10

nigelred5

14th December 2010, 00:46

What really sucks is I have 5 people on 1 year details working with me, all living a block from the track at Lombard and Howard and their details all end the week before the race so we won't have the 5 apartments. Maybe I can find justification and a volunteer or two to stay an extra month or so. :)

I've already been trying to see what places like Hooters are going to be doing for the weekend. They will have a really good view of the track from just turn 2, down to turn 3 and back up to turn 4, especially the braking zone for 4 as long as the fencing and walls don't obscure turn 4 too much since It should be a relatively open runoff area.

anthonyvop

24th January 2011, 00:12

There was an article in today's Baltimore Sun saying the organizers are no longer focused on getting a title sponsor. "WE have a bucket to fill and it doesn't matter how we fill that bucket.", said the principle of BRD. They also said they expect the race to be worth 70 million to the local economy - "more than twice as much as Long Beach". They claim that more than 26,000 tickets have been sold.

On a side note, I was flying back into BWI on Thursday, and there was one of the Dallara show cars on display with a sign about the race near the baggage claim area.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/baltimore-city/bs-md-ci-grand-prix-update-20110121,0,6528201.story

The $70 million for the local economy is laughable. If they sell every one of the 100,000 tickets it would mean that every one of those ticket holders would have to spend $700 each.......Ain't gonna happen

NaBUru38

24th January 2011, 13:12

Tony, how about a 3h tourism advertisement highlighted by fast cars, broadcasted live to dozens of countries including air television in Brazil?

Chamoo

24th January 2011, 13:30

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/baltimore-city/bs-md-ci-grand-prix-update-20110121,0,6528201.story

The $70 million for the local economy is laughable. If they sell every one of the 100,000 tickets it would mean that every one of those ticket holders would have to spend $700 each.......Ain't gonna happen

Another business major apparently who doesn't understand that that $70 million doesn't mean cash in hand, it means everything from fans buying meals, the exposure the local economy gets, the advertising the area gets, the jobs that are created for the weekend by the event etc...

All this money contributes the local economy in some sort of fashion, and people presenting projects to the public know how to spin the numbers the way they need to.

However, your right Anthony, I doubt they will reach $70 million, however, they will get a lot closer than you think, even without each ticket holder spending $700.

Otto-Matic

24th January 2011, 13:57

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/baltimore-city/bs-md-ci-grand-prix-update-20110121,0,6528201.story

The $70 million for the local economy is laughable. If they sell every one of the 100,000 tickets it would mean that every one of those ticket holders would have to spend $700 each.......Ain't gonna happen

Dude you don't get it. That $70 Mil is not just race tickets, it's taking into account hotel rooms that have been booked; meals, parking passes, temp jobs for people to check tickets, work as parking officials, etc.; trinkets that tourists buy (" like a "I got Crabs in Baltimore" t-shirt"); general patronage in the local shops and surrounding areas. My dad and I booked a hotel room in the next town over because all the hotels in the harbor area were booked. So we'll get breakfast/dinner in that town most likely, so it’s residual.
Now if they actually get to $70 remains to be seen, but to think that number was based solely off of tickets sales is ignorant.

Chamoo

24th January 2011, 14:15

Dude you don't get it. That $70 Mil is not just race tickets, it's taking into account hotel rooms that have been booked; meals, parking passes, temp jobs for people to check tickets, work as parking officials, etc.; trinkets that tourists buy (" like a "I got Crabs in Baltimore" t-shirt"); general patronage in the local shops and surrounding areas. My dad and I booked a hotel room in the next town over because all the hotels in the harbor area were booked. So we'll get breakfast/dinner in that town most likely, so it’s residual.
Now if they actually get to $70 remains to be seen, but to think that number was based solely off of tickets sales is ignorant.

I think Anthony was including meals and such. What he was saying was that each person who bought a ticket would have to spend $700 (on top of the price of their ticket) outside of the track over the weekend, which includes meals and hotels.

I came down slightly hard on you Anthony, and I apologize, but I still stand by my words in regards to them coming closer to $70 Million than you think.

Otto-Matic

24th January 2011, 14:19

Lee Roy

24th January 2011, 14:41

I guess the real test will be if the City of Baltimore feels it made more or less money from this race weekend than it usually would have over a Labor Day weekend.

anthonyvop

24th January 2011, 15:27

I think Anthony was including meals and such. What he was saying was that each person who bought a ticket would have to spend $700 (on top of the price of their ticket) outside of the track over the weekend, which includes meals and hotels.

I came down slightly hard on you Anthony, and I apologize, but I still stand by my words in regards to them coming closer to $70 Million than you think.

Living in Miami I read about these benefits to the local economy reports all the time. Super Bowl, BCS, NASCAR...etc. Once you read past the headlines and look at the actual numbers you see the flawed math. They base the economic benefit from a zero starting point. In other words the numbers are gathered as if there was no economic activity going on if the event didn't happen.

Last year ISC released the Economic Benefit report for the previous year's NASCAR race in Homestead and their big claim was how much money was generated because the Hotel occupancy rate was 92% during the event....Hello!!! Miami in November already has high occupancy rate and in fact in the weeks before and after they had the same rate.

Then they don't take into account local attendees. The majority of people attending the race will be from Baltimore. If it wasn't for the race how many would have spent money on another from of entertainment anyway?

They also count out of town vendors at the event. It is great if the souvenir trailers sell a lot of stuff but that money leaves with them when they pack up and head home. The only real benefit benefit there is for the Government in the form of Sales tax collected.

The race will be a benefit to some local businesses but I take the $70 million number with a huge grain of salt. All one has to do is look at all the abandoned or unapproved street races to show how little benefit they truly are. If they were such a huge benefit Miami, Jan Jose, Las Vegas, Washington D.C. and others would still be holding them.

Lee Roy

24th January 2011, 16:15

Then they don't take into account local attendees. The majority of people attending the race will be from Baltimore. If it wasn't for the race how many would have spent money on another from of entertainment anyway?

Bingo. My buddy and I will be driving up for the day on Friday and Saturday (not planning on Sunday). I doubt very seriously if we buy much more than a couple of hot-dogs and a few beers.

SarahFan

24th January 2011, 16:47

economic impact=Statistics=funny fudged math

way back when CC/CART 3 day festivals of speed were the anti-christ I read an interesting article that calculated that every dollar cycled thru the local economy 7x...

so if the event gets 70k unique individuals who all send $100.... then $70 mil economic impact isnt that far fetched...but of coarse that doesn't make it any less fuzzy, funny or fudged

Chris R

24th January 2011, 16:52

As with many things involving the government, don't believe all the numbers.... That being said, I would imagine a well done event carried out over a number of years should be of significant benefit to the local economy. Exposure to a larger marketplace (even global) should be a benefit. Temporary jobs of locals should help. Added income for local businesses should help..... Does it add up to $70 million - I seriously doubt it - at least not for many years... However, Baltimore is the real deal - it is a place that is a pleasure to visit and there is plenty to do. The food is excellent, there are multiple quality cultural attractions, the is plenty of retail shopping and there is a reasonable opportunity for B to B interactions. It is an excellent destination for trade shows and conferences.... The exposure should help them build their tourism market in the long term.... However, I am sure someone promised them an immediate return on their investment, and that isn't likely to happen....

anthonyvop

24th January 2011, 17:01

so if the event gets 70k unique individuals who all send $100.... then $70 mil economic impact isnt that far fetched...but of coarse that doesn't make it any less fuzzy, funny or fudged

That adds up to $7 Million not $70....

One other point....The economic benefits predicted does not take into account those who will suffer economically from the event...and their will be.

SarahFan

24th January 2011, 17:32

That adds up to $7 Million not $70....

One other point....The economic benefits predicted does not take into account those who will suffer economically from the event...and their will be.

Actually it adds up to 49mil.... But I suspect you didn't read my whole post

Who is going to suffer from the impact of the event ... A couple realmworld examples please

anthonyvop

24th January 2011, 18:07

Who is going to suffer from the impact of the event ... A couple realmworld examples please

Many business will lose out from a street race in the area. Blocked or hindered access will especially hit service companies like Doctors, lawyers, CPAs, dentists...etc. Also retailers that don't attract the average race fan will suffer as well.

Whenever a street race is proposed the 2 groups who always battle it are those who don't want Taxpayer money used and those who's business will suffer. Why do you think that their is such opposition to a Las Vegas Street race? Why have all the other street races aside from Long Beach have fallen by the wayside?

MDS

24th January 2011, 19:23

What's important to remember is you can't just take a look at the number of attendees, say they'll spend X amount of money and then use that as the impact number. There's also corporate spending, exposure, promotion, an bump in tippable employee wages and with a yearly street race a positive bump on property values. For example there is one condo tower in Long Beach that I'm aware where condos with a view of the race are 20 to 40 percent higher than similar units on the same floor.

I'd be interested to see what the volume/value ratio is. There are two sets of numbers for any event like this. There is the public numbers, which are a little less than the best case scenario, and then there is number that takes into account the makeup of the neighborhood and the racial and income demographics of the crowd, which are never, ever made public. For example Freaknick had a high impact on paper, but outside of restaurants, nightclubs and retail stores that catered to an R&B crows the event had a negative overall value for Atlanta, and that was before you factored in overtime for the police department and public works and lost productivity because of the traffic situation.

Chris R

24th January 2011, 21:00

nigelred5

24th January 2011, 22:31

I guess the real test will be if the City of Baltimore feels it made more or less money from this race weekend than it usually would have over a Labor Day weekend.

Considering Labor Day weekend is traditionally one of the slowest tourist weekends Baltimore City and the Inner Harbor sees all summer, that shouldn't be hard to realize. We rarely have a Ravens game at home Laborday weekend, and the Orioles.... welllll.... lets just say they aren't burning up the turnstyles unless the Yankees or Sox are in town. I feel safe in saying the Hilton, Sheraton, Hyatt, Marriott and Intercontinental's occupancy rates that weekend will show a definite bump considering their locations totally within or fronting the two main straights of the track.

IIRC, that weekend traditionally has the lowest hotel occupancy and merchants around the inner Harbor have their historical receipts to judge all of that by. Of course they are optomistic, but Baltimore has a very long track record of knowing how to gauge true economic impacts to events around Camden Yards and the Inner Harbor. In essense, this is little different than adding another large stadium event or festival to the existing calender. Yeah, traffic downtown REALLY sucks right now due to the street repaving (I'm in it every day), but that would have happened eventually, race or not. I'm really anxious to see what they will be doing with the intersection of Howard Street/I 395 and Conway Street where tehy will be heading into the warehouse Parking lot. That's gonna make rush hour Interesting to say the least.

nigelred5

24th January 2011, 22:36

Bingo. My buddy and I will be driving up for the day on Friday and Saturday (not planning on Sunday). I doubt very seriously if we buy much more than a couple of hot-dogs and a few beers.

I live 24 miles from the intersection of Howard and Conway streets and I've already made my reservation for Friday and Saturday nights. I'll be there eating and drinking simply because I will be able to for a change. With a combined weekend, there's going to be plenty of on track action and plenty of time to buy beer.

nigelred5

24th January 2011, 23:01

One of the beauties of the area they are talking about is that there are not too many businesses in the track area that are not event based businesses - I think the negative impact is actually going to be minimal.... There is a baseball park, a football park, a convention center and a whole bunch of businesses that count on the people those places bring in.....

Exactly. The area is totally about tourism, plain and simple. That's exactly what the Harbor was re-built to be starting in the early 80's. The course layout was designed to avoid downtown north of Pratt Street where the business district actually starts. There's a handful of companies located in the middle floors of the baseball warehouse building which are generally closed on the weekend or associated with the stadiums anyway, and a couple businesses in the building at 1 S Light Street which is locked up tight as a drum on the weekends. Everything else with in the confines of the track is a hotel, the convention center, or the Otterbein Methodist Church which occasionally still sells snacks and drinks to fans headed to events in the area.

The folks in the condos and townhomes along Conway and a few apartments are very used to the commotion of living at the Harbor and joining the party. I actually already know of two parties planned in that area.

nigelred5

24th January 2011, 23:10

Many business will lose out from a street race in the area. Blocked or hindered access will especially hit service companies like Doctors, lawyers, CPAs, dentists...etc. Also retailers that don't attract the average race fan will suffer as well.

Whenever a street race is proposed the 2 groups who always battle it are those who don't want Taxpayer money used and those who's business will suffer. Why do you think that their is such opposition to a Las Vegas Street race? Why have all the other street races aside from Long Beach have fallen by the wayside?

You don't know the area Tony. VERY few of the busineses in the area affected by the street closures rely on anything BUT tourism. Foot traffic from the towntown businesses headed for Harborplace shouldn't be affected too much. The permanent sky bridges around the Inner Harbor connect a lot downtown, even if many people don't regularly use them. They keep everything accessable even when the sidewalks and streets are choked and were designed to allow pedestrian traffic to stay safe from vehicular traffic. The main pedestrian sidewalks are also NOT immediately adjacent to teh street, they are seperarted by wide raised planters. Ther are actually double sidewalks along PRatt street where there are businesses outside of the track. Then consider the Federal courthouse occupies a block, andd three blocks are consumed by corporate buildings that are desolate friday through tuesday on a laborday weekend. Even during set up and tear down, there's plenty of access especially since the access to those builldings is from the srtreet behind the harbor. My brother atually never touches a surface street when walking from his office on Pratt Street to Harbor Place. Sure, traffic will suck once they close I 395 and Russell street for the weekend. That's why I'm booked Friday Evening thru sunday. But there are plenty of ways to get in and out of the areas around the track in all directions.

People that live in the area generally don't shop at the Harbor. Tourists do. The Inner Harbor isn't where many people in Baltimore actually live and those that do, know how to avoid the Harbor traffic anyway. Aside from a few palm trees, I won't compare the crap locations Miami chose for it's races with Baltimore. I went to the last Miami race. Tamiami park was far better.

nigelred5

25th January 2011, 00:11

I fully realize that. I drive it twice a day most weeks. It's not unusual for people to be diverted up howard to pratt.

Lee Roy

25th January 2011, 13:08

I wonder if the Light Rail will be running from Glen Burnie/BWI up to Hamburg Street that weekend? That's the best way to get into town as far as I'm concerned.

Lee Roy

25th January 2011, 15:45

I'm wondering if the Light Rail will be operating that close to the race track? I think the Hamburg Street Station is the one by the Ravens Stadium and I would think that would be about as far as the Light Rail would be able to go.

Mark in Oshawa

25th January 2011, 16:42

I think the event itself, if IT makes money, then the rest falls into place. There are winners and losers with these events, but the Losers find ways to survive or adapt, or they suffer. The winners keep winning, and the City gets publicity as a destination. Mind you, this is Baltimore, and as much as I find it more appealing than I expected, I don't put it up there with Boston, Miami or San Franscisco as a destination.

Anubis

25th January 2011, 18:16

Does anyone here know what sort of economic impact the various V8 Supercar street events have on the local economy? Those races seem to be a mainstay of the series these days, so either they're massively subsidised, or they are deemed to be beneficial.

nigelred5

25th January 2011, 19:36

I wonder if the Light Rail will be running from Glen Burnie/BWI up to Hamburg Street that weekend? That's the best way to get into town as far as I'm concerned.

On race Day heading to the race I agree totally. Metro will also get you as close as Lexington Market.

My understanding is it will stop northbound from the south at Hamburg Street by the Raven's Stadium. The Camden Yards Station is north of the Parking lot entrance inside if the track, and there is no handicapped access for the Light rail on the MARC Platform to stop closer. I'm curious if they will run any MARC trains for the race as well.

Southbound from the North my undrestanding is it will stop at the University Crescent/Baltimore Arena stop.

Either stop gets a fan within a couple hundred yards. what really screws up the light rail is how close can they get and still cross over to switch directions.

Lee Roy

25th January 2011, 20:41

I'm curious if they will run any MARC trains for the race as well.

I doubt it. They don't even run MARC trains for the Orioles anymore.

Maybe if the promoters organize something, but I imagine they have their plate full with what they're doing now.

bugeyedgomer

1st March 2011, 23:33

Baltimore GP fired its marketing and advertising agencies. some stuff just isnt sellable

Participants were able to see a real indy-style Formula 1 race car. hahahaha

Lee Roy

2nd March 2011, 02:53

do you have a link? (not doubting you, would just like to see it.)

bugeyedgomer

2nd March 2011, 18:28

http://www.bizjournals.com/baltimore/news/2011/02/14/baltimore-grand-prix-taps-edie-brown.html

http://easycaptures.com/fs/uploaded/360/0646228618.jpg

Lee Roy

2nd March 2011, 18:36

Thanks

nigelred5

2nd March 2011, 18:36

Christ, that's channel two reporting on a Baltimore County public Schools competition. What do you expect? Scott's a stick and ball homer and motorsports are rarely on his radar. He has to be all but forced to report on racing from what I've been told by people that have worked for him in the past.

They made a move to locals better experienced in the area promote while there is time. I'd be concerned if they hadn't..

Mark in Oshawa

3rd March 2011, 18:56

Ah yes, the press making a mess of things again.....sometimes you can spoon feed them the information, and they still find ways to stick their foot in their mouths...

nigelred5

4th March 2011, 00:07

Exactly. As most of the locals know, as far as the tv news goes the only racing that exists is NASCAR. :(

Don Capps

4th March 2011, 01:28

....as far as the tv news goes the only racing that exists is NASCAR. (

There could be a very good reason for that, of course.....

Although I wish the Baltimore event well, I simply cannot see how it will succeed over the long haul. Indeed, I am still trying to figure how it will make it over the "short haul."

Thinking about what Gordon Kirby (http://www.gordonkirby.com/categories/columns/theway/2011/the_way_it_is_no271.html) has written on the failure of venue after venue, I doubt Baltimore will be on the schedule for very long. Sorry, I just cannot figure out how this event is going to make it past the first year, much less several years following this one.

nigelred5

4th March 2011, 01:59

There could be a very good reason for that, of course.....

Although I wish the Baltimore event well, I simply cannot see how it will succeed over the long haul. Indeed, I am still trying to figure how it will make it over the "short haul."

Thinking about what Gordon Kirby (http://www.gordonkirby.com/categories/columns/theway/2011/the_way_it_is_no271.html) has written on the failure of venue after venue, I doubt Baltimore will be on the schedule for very long. Sorry, I just cannot figure out how this event is going to make it past the first year, much less several years following this one.

You can start with channel 2 always pre empting Indycars for the sunday Orioles game or a Jack Lalane juicer commercial. 1 1/2 down.....

Well, we could go superleague, paint one of the cars purple, slap a number 52 on it and tell the news there's a rivalry with the #7 Steelers car since It's looking like the won't have the NFL to compete with on race day ;)

nigelred5

4th March 2011, 17:49

Pretty true except for the sunday night extra long spots. Ive been shocked the few times I have seen anyhting. I about fell over when I saw them cover the sponsor announcement with Simona. I had to check what channel I was watching.

I'm hoping Comcast will up the promotion and coverage on the local sprots network channels leading up to the race once the season starts since it will be on VERSUS. They usually promote events they are involved with pretty well. they really need to get all of the TV coverage within the same corporate family ASAP since neither is going to cross promote an event on the other network. Having races broadcast on competing networks is assenine.