TEAM money cut from Conquest and Coyne

[Lousada]

“Our fans want credibility and they ridicule a couple of our drivers for not being good enough so if those people are still going to try and compete, IndyCar is not going to pay for them,” said Bernard, who singled out Milka Duno in the owner’s meeting last week as he informed his paddock of the TEAM change.

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/indycar-changes-to-team-funding-for-2011/

The TEAM fund was especially set-up for the smaller teams, and now they get cut from it. This could potentially damage the Conquest and Coyne second operations. That would mean two less cars.
Also it doesn't stop from running Francesco Dracone and Milka Duno next year. Actually it encourages it, because now the little teams have no incentive to put talented, but not so rich, drivers in. Alex Loyd could only compete this year because the team had Milka. That construction will be 1.3 million more expensive next year.

[Nikki Katz]

I think that this is completely the wrong way to go around it. They did make Duno just make cameo appearances in the last few races, which was sort-of good, but personally I'd just include a qualifying cut-off time. This wouldn't be like F1 in the late 90s with some teams regularly struggling to make 107% due to budgetary reasons, as IndyCars are essentially identical. There could be a difference of a couple of seconds due to being at the worst team on the grid compared with the best, but certainly nothing like the 10s + that we have seen from Duno.

[Jag_Warrior]

After placing her on double-super-secret probation, the Nard Dog doesn't have the nads to yank her license, so he takes the chicken#### approach of $queezing whatever team she drives for?

Coward! :down:

Hey Randy Man, since you're now in the mood to "listen to the fans", why haven't you taken steps to fire Brian Barnhart? IMO, that clown has done more harm to this series than Milka ever could.

[Scotty G.]

Conquest and Coyne still get Indy Car welfare, for 2 of their entries.

Maybe some of these teams need to actually get serious and not just employ hacks like Duno and Dracone.

Dale's been at it a long, long time. Time to get serious, man.

[Chamoo]

Conquest and Coyne still get Indy Car welfare, for 2 of their entries.

Maybe some of these teams need to actually get serious and not just employ hacks like Duno and Dracone.

Dale's been at it a long, long time. Time to get serious, man.

Yea, Dale did get serious when he won at Watkins Glen.

[Otto-Matic]

since we can never get rid of ride buyers, i wa salways wondering why sanctoning bodies didnt increase the requirments to hold a competition license. Sure you got a boat load of $$$ but if drivers criteria to compete in Indycar were more strickly enforced, or held to a higher standard of "quality' competition than at least we'd have ride buyers who had some talent. Maybe a certain amount of miles/races completed in Atlantics (when it was around)/FIL, with a criteria for results (if you do 50 FIL races but finish last in 40 of them, that doesnt make you "ready" to step up) or at least a perfromance standard for testing...SOMETHING.

[Scotty G.]

Yea, Dale did get serious when he won at Watkins Glen.

Yea, that lasted a long time.

Coyne's been at this a while now. Time to get serious about actually competing and not just filling the field.

[garyshell]

Yea, that lasted a long time.

Coyne's been at this a while now. Time to get serious about actually competing and not just filling the field.

Why? Because Scotty G says so? What if he is perfectly happy just competing at the level of commitment he currently has and not interested in trying to take on Penske and Ganassi?

Gary

[Anubis]

Guess it's similar to the start and park debate in NASCAR. If Coyne et al feel they can operate as a business and turn a profit (do they?) by fielding ride buyers, as long as the series allows it, or maybe perhaps as long as it continues not to disallow it, who is anyone to tell them otherwise? I wouldn't want to see people bankrupted and people out of jobs through trying to compete with Penske. If their business model is ride buyers, until such a point ICS introduces a 107% rule or somesuch, they're going to continue taking the cheques.

[Chris R]

Yea, that lasted a long time.

Coyne's been at this a while now. Time to get serious about actually competing and not just filling the field.

And without Coyne, we had on less thing to talk about, one less incubator for new talent (despite Duno, he has brought some decent drivers to the series), 2 less cars in the field, and countless other things he brings to the table....

He is the classic underdog - which is something Americans love - perhaps even more than American drivers.... He is also a smart businessman - he has been able to keep his team going for many years despite a lack of success and it appears as though he has actually made a living doing it... How many folks have gone broke trying to be the next Roger Penske or Chip Ganassi???

I am no fan of Duno and no fan of ride buyers who have no business in an Indycar - but Dale is ok in my book (and so are many of the so-called "ride buyers" who are talented enough to merit a chance even if they are not the next Mario Andretti - they make the racing world spin 'round)......

[Chris R]

and on this ride-buyer issue - we need to separate the economics of racing from talent. Just because a driver is better at attracting sponsorship (perhaps through family ties even) than a team does not mean he or she does not have talent or deserve a shot....

Duno is not bad because she bought her ride in and of itself. She is bad because she cannot drive..... Yes, she would not have a drive in a system that only rewarded talent - but racing has NEVER been just about talent it has ALWAYS been about money and personality too - there is no point in dreaming for "good old days" that never existed....

go with some version of the 107% rule and this problem will more or less solve itself..... Also, require an FIA superlicense or equivalent if you really want to hit the issue with both barrels.... leave the economic fact/necessity of ride-buuying out of the discussion.....

[Scotty G.]

Why? Because Scotty G says so? What if he is perfectly happy just competing at the level of commitment he currently has and not interested in trying to take on Penske and Ganassi?

Gary

Yes, he's perfectly happy to fill the field and keep taking checks from anyone who will give him one.

Forget about competing with Penske and Ganassi. How about just competing period? He's had a team since the late 1980's. And yet, its still about scraping by and doing the minimum.

[Scotty G.]

He is the classic underdog.


He's also loaded beyond belief.

Quit whining Dale about losing a welfare check for one of your entries you put no effort into last year (because if you take Duno on, you are not serious).

Go out and actually do what other big boy owners in racing do....find money ON YOUR OWN. Coyne might be a swell guy but he is the poster-child for what has been wrong with Indy Car Racing in the last 2 decades.

And why Penske and Ganassi kick everyone's ass every single year.

[garyshell]

Forget about competing with Penske and Ganassi. How about just competing period?


And why Penske and Ganassi kick everyone's ass every single year.


So which is it? Out of one side of your mouth he doesn't need to compete with them, out of the other you berate him because he doesn't.

Gary

[Hoop-98]

and on this ride-buyer issue - we need to separate the economics of racing from talent. Just because a driver is better at attracting sponsorship (perhaps through family ties even) than a team does not mean he or she does not have talent or deserve a shot....

Duno is not bad because she bought her ride in and of itself. She is bad because she cannot drive..... Yes, she would not have a drive in a system that only rewarded talent - but racing has NEVER been just about talent it has ALWAYS been about money and personality too - there is no point in dreaming for "good old days" that never existed....

go with some version of the 107% rule and this problem will more or less solve itself..... Also, require an FIA superlicense or equivalent if you really want to hit the issue with both barrels.... leave the economic fact/necessity of ride-buuying out of the discussion.....

I have been thinking of this '107PCT' rule and how it might be implemented.

Let's look at Duno's practice speeds.

http://i51.tinypic.com/ej8y1k.jpg

Except for Watkins Glen she was averaging over 110 pct of the leader in practice and three times she was held out of qualifying.

Later, after "probation" she was making the 107 cut.


A couple of thoughts, 107 on the current ovals seems high.

If a person has trouble in practice and can't hit 107 should they be allowed to attempt to qualify>

Should their be something like 109 in practice allows an attempt to make 107, over 109 in practice (Road Courses) no qualifying attempts?

Thoughts?

[Chris R]

He's also loaded beyond belief.

Quit whining Dale about losing a welfare check for one of your entries you put no effort into last year (because if you take Duno on, you are not serious).

Go out and actually do what other big boy owners in racing do....find money ON YOUR OWN. Coyne might be a swell guy but he is the poster-child for what has been wrong with Indy Car Racing in the last 2 decades.

And why Penske and Ganassi kick everyone's ass every single year.

I suspect Roger and Chip have far more money than Dale and it is irrelevant anyway....

I understand your call to action for Dale to step it up - but by the same token, I fail to see how he is different from the field filler teams of the past.... and I fail to see how the support survives without at least some people like him....

I also am not so sure the "big boys" do as much sponsor finding as the past... If Rahal goes to Ganassi - is he now a "ride buyer" because he drummed up his own sponsorship? What about Andretti taking Mutoh? You mean to tell me that Danica is a not de facto "ride buyer" (because those sponsor do not care about Andretti - they care about Danica)....

[ykiki]

...if you take Duno on, you are not serious.
Does this mean we should hate on Dreyer & Reinbold even more than DC? After all, Coyne has only had her for a season but D&R kept bringing her back!

Dale Coyne will manage to survive with or (hopefully) without Duno. He's had some rather good drivers (Justin Wilson, Alex Barron, Townsend Bell, Christiano DeMatta, Roberto Moreno, Oriol Servia, Paul Tracy, Bruno Junqueira), some not so good (Joel Camathias, Dennis Vitolo), and well, Duno is in a class all by herself.


Go out and actually do what other big boy owners in racing do....find money ON YOUR OWN. Coyne might be a swell guy but he is the poster-child for what has been wrong with Indy Car Racing in the last 2 decades.

I remember when DC ran cars with Sonny's BBQ livery and people actually complained because Coyne owned Sonny's franchises. "They're not a real sponsor" they'd say. Somehow funding his team out of his own pocket was deemed to be a bad thing. Seems like people won't be happy no matter what he does.

Dale Coyne seems like the kind of guy who keeps racing and busting his butt to field a team because he has FUN with it and he's entertained by it. Someone had better fill him in that sports are not supposed to be fun - they're a serious business - and that if he can't compete on the same level as the big boys, then he should take his ball and go home.

You know, Dale Coyne will be just fine whether he's getting TEAM money or not. It's Conquest who'll probably suffer...

[Scotty G.]

I understand your call to action for Dale to step it up - but by the same token, I fail to see how he is different from the field filler teams of the past.... and I fail to see how the support survives without at least some people like him....




I am in no way saying we would be better off without the field-filler teams.

But, its Coyne coming out and whining in Robin's recent article, that galls me. He knew exactly what he was doing, taking on Milka. He was (as he almost always has done), taking the check and doing very little on his own. He's been doing that for the better part of 25 years now.

Randy Bernard has made it very clear (and this drop to 22, makes it even more clear).....either get serious and hire real race drivers or get off the gravy train.

Milka Duno and the grab bag of ride buyers Conquest employed in their 2nd car, ain't gonna cut it. Nor should it. This is supposed to be big boy, professional racing.

And, what has Coyne done in his 25 years or so in the sport, to help in the feeder series? An Indy Lights team? An Atlantics team? Star Mazda? USAC? Anything? Anything in any other form of racing?

Again Dale is a good guy and a pioneer type of owner. But he has also gotten VERY rich over the years, from sticking his hand out.

[Scotty G.]

I remember when DC ran cars with Sonny's BBQ livery and people actually complained because Coyne owned Sonny's franchises. "They're not a real sponsor" they'd say. Somehow funding his team out of his own pocket was deemed to be a bad thing. Seems like people won't be happy no matter what he does.




Yes, I remember those Sonny's cars from a few years ago.

Of course, it was Mario Moraes's family check, who was funding that car. Not Dale. And because Tony George gave him free chassis and free engine leases, it was a nice, easy year of collecting for DCR.

[anthonyvop]

If a person has trouble in practice and can't hit 107 should they be allowed to attempt to qualify>

Should their be something like 109 in practice allows an attempt to make 107, over 109 in practice (Road Courses) no qualifying attempts?

Thoughts?

Practice is just that....Practice. With limited testing it is one of the only times they can try new things. Leave it alone.

Right now the grids are not big enough for there to be a need for pre-qualifying. If the grid grows then perhaps it will be needed.

How about this?
For Road course: Have a 20 min pre-qualifying session immediately after final practice for any driver who didn't make the 107% the race before?

For Ovals the time that each cars spends qualifying is so short that there is no need for pre-qualifying.

[Hoop-98]

Practice is just that....Practice. With limited testing it is one of the only times they can try new things. Leave it alone.

Right now the grids are not big enough for there to be a need for pre-qualifying. If the grid grows then perhaps it will be needed.

How about this?
For Road course: Have a 20 min pre-qualifying session immediately after final practice for any driver who didn't make the 107% the race before?

For Ovals the time that each cars spends qualifying is so short that there is no need for pre-qualifying.

I basically agree, just that when we say 107 what do we mean. I looked at it as an either or meaning you make it in practice or in Qualifying.

Since only 1 person was failing the pre-qualifying i liked the idea that if you qualified at the last RC you can attempt to qualify at the next.

107 to me is a Road Course number, if you are 7 pct off on an Oval you have real problems.

The deal is, when you say 107% you have a lot of defining to do.

jm2c
rh

[ykiki]

Yes, I remember those Sonny's cars from a few years ago.

Of course, it was Mario Moraes's family check, who was funding that car. Not Dale. And because Tony George gave him free chassis and free engine leases, it was a nice, easy year of collecting for DCR.

I seem to remember Junqueira driving the Sonny's car longer than Moraes (I could be wrong), and Bruno isn't someone I associate with $$$.

[nigelred5]

I've never heard anyone complaining about Penske scrawled down the side of Roger's cars all those years, or the Forsythe Cars with INDECK.

[glauistean]

Conquest and Coyne still get Indy Car welfare, for 2 of their entries.

Maybe some of these teams need to actually get serious and not just employ hacks like Duno and Dracone.

Dale's been at it a long, long time. Time to get serious, man.

"Welfare"! Was that a deliberate choice of words. Like something you disagree with on a personal level.

I for one would prefer to see DCR, Conquest, DR and SF get all the money. Penske does not need these sponsors. If he lived to a 100 he would still be a millionaire. No discredit to Roger as he has earned his money. The same for KK and CG, oh, and smiley face Michael. Let them absorb the cost.

Pather gets 10 million from the National Guard. How that is rationalized is beyond me.

[glauistean]

And without Coyne, we had on less thing to talk about, one less incubator for new talent (despite Duno, he has brought some decent drivers to the series), 2 less cars in the field, and countless other things he brings to the table....

He is the classic underdog - which is something Americans love - perhaps even more than American drivers.... He is also a smart businessman - he has been able to keep his team going for many years despite a lack of success and it appears as though he has actually made a living doing it... How many folks have gone broke trying to be the next Roger Penske or Chip Ganassi???

I am no fan of Duno and no fan of ride buyers who have no business in an Indycar - but Dale is ok in my book (and so are many of the so-called "ride buyers" who are talented enough to merit a chance even if they are not the next Mario Andretti - they make the racing world spin 'round)......


Well said!!!

[Enjun Pullr]

Agreed with glauistean, that's excellent perspective Chris.

[Mark in Oshawa]

I am of the opinion that Coyne is a lot of what Scott said, but still it wouldn't be the same if he wasn't there.

Lets face it, a 28 car field has a much more enticing feel than a 20 car field. As long as the series starts making it harder to get a seat license wise, I have no issue with ride buying. Ok...belay that, I have an issue in that I don't like it, but I know why it happens. AS long however the people getting behind the wheel can qualify and be competitive when the green stops to an extent, then that is ok.

Coyne will survive, he always managed when he was racing an old chassis with a stock block and HE was the driver (89?) . Conquest on the other hand....well they may find it tough...