Red Bull, one more example of hypocrisy on F1

[jfvm]

Mateschitz said 'We don't manipulate things like Ferrari do'. I ask, take the front wing from Webber's car and installed it on Vettel's car was not turn to one's advantage?

Why some F1 public figures think that we the spectators are a bunch of idiots.

I am sure that if Vettel is leading on the front, Webber is second and Alonso is higher than 5th in the last laps, it is already agreed by the team that Vettel will let Webber pass through to take the title. And after the race, it will be managed by Horner (that also thinks I am an idiot) as a wonderful "driver decision" bla bla bla to keeps Vettel happy by giving him the credit in Mark's victory while not to damage the Redbull image.

[airshifter]

Glad to see you have a conspiracy theory already worked out! :laugh:

[jfvm]

The secret plot at RedBull HQ has been unveiled... lol :D

[Valve Bounce]

The secret plot at RedBull HQ has been unveiled... lol :D

Thanx for the heads up, Salome!! :p :

[wmcot]

Mateschitz said 'We don't manipulate things like Ferrari do'. I ask, take the front wing from Webber's car and installed it on Vettel's car was not turn to one's advantage?


Actually DM is right. They don't manipulate like Ferrari does. The whole front wing affair shows that they manipulate things in a different way! :)

[wattoroos]

Or is this "one more example" of an anti Red Bull Thread? :p

someone i think is cheering for alonso this weekend

[wattoroos]

Or is this "one more example" of an anti Red Bull Thread? :p

:up: yeah i think that he might supporting a certain ferrari driver this weekend

[Bezza]

I think we all know that if the points situation between Webber and Vettel was reversed, then Red Bull would be ordering Webber out of the way.

In Brazil, Webber would have been told to make way if the situation was reversed. They are clinging on the hope that their lovechild Vettel will still win the title, and by doing this have greatly reduced Webber’s chances.

They are just as bad as Ferrari but just haven’t had the chance to employ these tactics in the race yet!

I can see Vettel winning with Webber second, Alonso third – the excuse will be that if Alonso retired then Vettel deserved a chance to win the title.

[Big Ben]

I think we all know that if the points situation between Webber and Vettel was reversed, then Red Bull would be ordering Webber out of the way.

In Brazil, Webber would have been told to make way if the situation was reversed. They are clinging on the hope that their lovechild Vettel will still win the title, and by doing this have greatly reduced Webber’s chances.

They are just as bad as Ferrari but just haven’t had the chance to employ these tactics in the race yet!

I can see Vettel winning with Webber second, Alonso third – the excuse will be that if Alonso retired then Vettel deserved a chance to win the title.

If that's true they are worse. At least Ferrari is supporting the driver that CAN deliver.

[Cooper_S]

If that's true they are worse. At least Ferrari is supporting the driver that CAN deliver.


LOL, are you seriously saying Vettel cannot deliver... gee I guess the fact he is equal on wins this season and lost out through mechanical failure of another 3 escapes you, Yes the tean love him he has had the support of Red Bull since before he entered F1, (It is no different to how Hamilton was seen within the McLaren team)

As for the whole wing thing... the team only had one left and rightly or wrongly they chose to give it to Vettel... well if I recall it was Mark that won that race so where exactly was he disadvantaged... had he received the new wing he may have lost the race... go figure.

It seems Webber only performs when he has a chip on his shoulder... so there again the actions of the team are working to Marks strengths.

[Tazio]

I don't give a rat’s @$$ what Mateschitz says! :dozey:

[Cooper_S]

I don't give a rat’s @$$ what Mateschitz says! :dozey:

I'm sure he feels the same way, however the difference is your choice of words would lead me to believe you care a little otherwise you would not have been moved to comment.

[Tazio]

I'm sure he feels the same way, however the difference is your choice of words would lead me to believe you care a little otherwise you would not have been moved to comment.

Wrong!
I'm not into the tabloid aspect of the sport, that's all!

[Cooper_S]

You obviously do care what he says even if it is because you don't like what he says...

Comment again and prove me right...

[Valve Bounce]

Cheers, Again you prove me right... you obviously care what he says even if it is because you don't like what he says...

Comment again and prove me right... again

OK!! I'll comment - so tell me what that does prove!
I don't care what Mateschitz says either - I think the drivers will sort it out themselves.

Do you agree, disagree, shout Ferrari were right? or wrong in what they did?

What??

[N4D13]

Quite frankly, I agree with jfvm. I believe that Red Bull won't hesitate to use team orders or, at least, to indicate Vettel that he should move aside for Webber. See this (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/88061) for instance:

"Nobody has a crystal ball, nobody can foresee what will happen next weekend and all along we have tried to do the best to support them equally. And of course if they find themselves in a situation where one, because he cannot win, needs to help the other then of course I can only imagine that they will do that. But it will have to be a driver decision."

"Ultimately it is their decision. They both drive for the team and I know that they will both do the best that they can in that situation, should it arise, for the team. Nobody has a crystal ball and nobody can predict what will happen in a week's time. Both drivers go into the race weekend with a genuine chance of taking the world title."

I truly doubt that RBR would allow Vettel to finish in front of Webber if it meant that Webber lost out in the WDC fight. And should Vettel let Mark by, it's obvious that RBR would assure that it was a driver decision, not a team order.

[Valve Bounce]

Let's put it this way: I don't think that there will be a message over the radio reminding Vettel that Alonso will win the WDC if Webber did not finish ahead of Vettel. :p :

[Tazio]

OK!! I'll comment - so tell me what that does prove!
I don't care what Mateschitz says either - I think the drivers will sort it out themselves.Do you agree, disagree, shout Ferrari were right? or wrong in what they did?

What??

Bingo!
Why should I care what an "energy drink" mogul has to say about F1? :confused:
I haven’t read his comments anyway.
And as an aside;
:s ailor: real men drink coffee

[fandango]

Do we not already have a few threads about this? Shouldn't they be merged?

[Valve Bounce]

You obviously do care what he says even if it is because you don't like what he says...

Comment again and prove me right...

Over to you! your turn to comment :D

Right?? :p :

[Cooper_S]

Why should I care what an "energy drink" mogul has to say about F1? :confused:


Because he is more than just an "energy drink" mogul... he is an F1 team owner...

So actually he has more right to be heard than you (or I) in thjat respect... unless of course you are more involved in F1 than just watching on TV and posting on forums... maybe you are, I do not know you.

[Retro Formula 1]

The man has put a small fortune into Motorsport at many levels so should be applauded for that. Putting your money where your mouth is does ad some weight to his opinions whether you agree with them or not.

I think he's playing the game but they all do so what's the problem?

[Tazio]

Because he is more than just an "energy drink" mogul... he is an F1 team owner...

So actually he has more right to be heard than you (or I) in thjat respect... unless of course you are more involved in F1 than just watching on TV and posting on forums... maybe you are, I do not know you.I also don’t give a crap about what Sergio Marchionne has to say, and I make it a point to ignore, Luca di Montezemolo for that matter on such philosophical subjects. MO bro

[555-04Q2]

Its common knowledge that a lot of bosses are idiots. My staff would agree with that statement :p :

Just because someone owns a business or an interest in a certain field, does not mean they are smarter than someone else who is out of it.

[Cooper_S]

Its common knowledge that a lot of bosses are idiots. My staff would agree with that statement :p :

Just because someone owns a business or an interest in a certain field, does not mean they are smarter than someone else who is out of it.

Find a comment where anyone says they are smarter... I know I say they had as team owners as much of a right to comment.... and I believe I said others have a right to disagree with their comments...

I maintain that not being interested in what such team owners say creates a flaw in getting others to accept you when putting your own views are put forward.

Caring what others have to say is not the same as liking what they say, Mr.Alcatraz does not seem to have grasped that.

[Big Ben]

LOL, are you seriously saying Vettel cannot deliver...

well he can but he didn´t... better?

[Cooper_S]

well he can but he didn’t... better?

Well if I’m totally honest, not really...

As I see it after 18 races Vettel has scored the same number of wins as his team mate (and that is only because his car has failed him when leading in at least 3 races) and he is only 7 points behind with 25 possible... another win and he is actually ahead of his team mate in the standings and if Alonso finished in 5th Vettel will be champion...

I really fail to see how anyone can say Vettel can't or didn’t perform… but I get the feeling some will... C'est la vie

[DexDexter]

Well if I’m totally honest, not really...

As I see it after 18 races Vettel has scored the same number of wins as his team mate (and that is only because his car has failed him when leading in at least 3 races) and he is only 7 points behind with 25 possible... another win and he is actually ahead of his team mate in the standings and if Alonso finished in 5th Vettel will be champion...

I really fail to see how anyone can say Vettel can't or didn’t perform… but I get the feeling some will... C'est la vie

Vettel has been terribly unlucky this year, he is the moral champion of the year regardless of who wins it. Having said that he has made mistakes as well but so have all the other contenders, which is a bit surprising IMO.

[Valve Bounce]

Vettel has been terribly unlucky this year, he is the moral champion of the year regardless of who wins it. Having said that he has made mistakes as well but so have all the other contenders, which is a bit surprising IMO.

I hate to say this, but in F1 there are no moral winners, and nobody will remember who should have been the winner in any year if he did not win. That's the hard reality of F1 championships. You could even argue that Damon Hill should have been the moral winner in ..........God! I forgot which year. :(

[CNR]

Because he is more than just an "energy drink" mogul... he is an F1 team owner...

So actually he has more right to be heard than you (or I) in thjat respect... unless of course you are more involved in F1 than just watching on TV and posting on forums... maybe you are, I do not know you.

without redbull jaguar f1 and minardi f1 may have just folded and there could be 5 substandard teams instead of 3

[Valve Bounce]

Find a comment where anyone says they are smarter... I know I say they had as team owners as much of a right to comment.... and I believe I said others have a right to disagree with their comments...

I maintain that not being interested in what such team owners say creates a flaw in getting others to accept you when putting your own views are put forward.

Caring what others have to say is not the same as liking what they say, Mr.Alcatraz does not seem to have grasped that.

Actually, having read your posts, I couldn't care less what you say.
Does that make any sense to you?

[jfvm]

Actually DM is right. They don't manipulate like Ferrari does. The whole front wing affair shows that they manipulate things in a different way! :)

LOL. :D

[Cooper_S]

Actually, having read your posts, I couldn't care less what you say.
Does that make any sense to you?


Well, I must say that having read just some of the 18,000+ comments you have posted it does really, (proof that quantity does not equal quality)

However reading what others have to say about you, I feel blessed you should feel that way...

So Thanks V-B, maybe now we can become better strangers.

[Valve Bounce]

Well, I must say that having read just some of the 18,000+ comments you have posted it does really, (proof that quantity does not equal quality)

However reading what others have to say about you, I feel blessed you should feel that way...

So Thanks V-B, maybe now we can become better strangers.

I simply want to make the point, and you have confirmed it with your post in effect, that when I say I couldn't care less what you say simply means :" I consider what you say is rubbish". And I suppose that was what a previous poster may have meant about the BS that Mateshidt was coming out with. Tu comprens?

[jfvm]

:up: yeah i think that he might supporting a certain ferrari driver this weekend

I am not a RB fan because I don't like Horner dishonest when he said he support both drivers by equal.

About Alonso, I think he has been great this year, he is a mature driver (emotional and technically) and the prove is he is serious title contender with a car that didn't give him advantage over the season (actually the opposite).

In terms of an income (car) / outcome (points) relation, he has been the most "productive" driver, but I will be also happy if Webber takes the title.

[ioan]

Why some F1 public figures think that we the spectators are a bunch of idiots.

Because they are right. Any other 'intelligent' questions?


I think we all know that if the points situation between Webber and Vettel was reversed, then Red Bull would be ordering Webber out of the way.

Do you always think that you are everyone?! :rolleyes:
Did someone elect you to preach in the name of everyone and we mere mortals missed the big moment?!


LOL, are you seriously saying Vettel cannot deliver... gee I guess the fact he is equal on wins this season and lost out through mechanical failure of another 3 escapes you, Yes the tean love him he has had the support of Red Bull since before he entered F1, (It is no different to how Hamilton was seen within the McLaren team)

As for the whole wing thing... the team only had one left and rightly or wrongly they chose to give it to Vettel... well if I recall it was Mark that won that race so where exactly was he disadvantaged... had he received the new wing he may have lost the race... go figure.

It seems Webber only performs when he has a chip on his shoulder... so there again the actions of the team are working to Marks strengths.

You are trying to talk some reason into a black hole, IMO. ;)


I'm sure he feels the same way, however the difference is your choice of words would lead me to believe you care a little otherwise you would not have been moved to comment.

Fully agreed! :up:


The man has put a small fortune into Motorsport at many levels so should be applauded for that. Putting your money where your mouth is does ad some weight to his opinions whether you agree with them or not.

I think he's playing the game but they all do so what's the problem?

People need to blame and hate someone, it has always been like this. :)

[ioan]

I think we all know that if the points situation between Webber and Vettel was reversed, then Red Bull would be ordering Webber out of the way.

Do you always think that you are everyone?! :rolleyes:
Did someone elect you to preach in the name of everyone and we mere mortals missed the big moment?!

[ioan]

LOL, are you seriously saying Vettel cannot deliver... gee I guess the fact he is equal on wins this season and lost out through mechanical failure of another 3 escapes you, Yes the tean love him he has had the support of Red Bull since before he entered F1, (It is no different to how Hamilton was seen within the McLaren team)

As for the whole wing thing... the team only had one left and rightly or wrongly they chose to give it to Vettel... well if I recall it was Mark that won that race so where exactly was he disadvantaged... had he received the new wing he may have lost the race... go figure.

It seems Webber only performs when he has a chip on his shoulder... so there again the actions of the team are working to Marks strengths.

You are trying to talk some reason into a black hole, IMO. ;)

[ioan]

I'm sure he feels the same way, however the difference is your choice of words would lead me to believe you care a little otherwise you would not have been moved to comment.

Fully agreed! :up:

[ioan]

Actually, having read your posts, I couldn't care less what you say.
Does that make any sense to you?

Then why did you reply?! :p

[ioan]

Vettel has been terribly unlucky this year, he is the moral champion of the year regardless of who wins it. Having said that he has made mistakes as well but so have all the other contenders, which is a bit surprising IMO.

Fully agreed!

[ioan]

I hate to say this, but in F1 there are no moral winners...(

Moral winners exist for those with strong moral values.

[Valve Bounce]

Moral winners exist for those with strong moral values.

Yeah! and do you believe that Damon was the moral winner and not SchM when SchM deliberately ran into his car as Damon tried to go past? Because if you do, then you'd have to change your sig. Sorry about that! I see you've already changed it. :p :

[Valve Bounce]

I don't give a rat’s @$$ what Mateschitz says! :dozey:

I've been thinking long and hard about this, and I believe this guy is an extremely shrewd salesman. He has won the championship, and now he is espousing his drivers to perform in a truly sportsmanlike manner without his interference.

He is marketing a product that is consumed by the mega megalitres over the world by sportsmen and their wannabees. Footballers think they can get a lift by gobbling this goop before running out onto the field - AFL players have confirmed this, and I'm willing to bet that NFL and NBA players do so too; after all, Red Bull gives them wings.

Now when you realise that the opposition markets their goop using insects, and Mateschitz has those wonderful men in their flying machines (which I marvel at in their excellence more than F1 drivers), and now comes that most noble of gestures in F1 where a driver unselfishly helps his team mate to win the championship. Man! no amount of money could buy publicity like that - this is priceless!!

Those insects publicizing that other energy drink just don't stand a chance - they will be squashed :eek:

[Ari]

LOL, are you seriously saying Vettel cannot deliver... gee I guess the fact he is equal on wins this season and lost out through mechanical failure of another 3 escapes you, Yes the tean love him he has had the support of Red Bull since before he entered F1, (It is no different to how Hamilton was seen within the McLaren team)

As for the whole wing thing... the team only had one left and rightly or wrongly they chose to give it to Vettel... well if I recall it was Mark that won that race so where exactly was he disadvantaged... had he received the new wing he may have lost the race... go figure.

It seems Webber only performs when he has a chip on his shoulder... so there again the actions of the team are working to Marks strengths.

Chip on his shoulder? You mean like Monaco and Barcelona?

*conspiracy theory warning*

Why is it that Webber has been slower of late than Vettel? Webber has blown Vettel away many times this year.... but hasn't for some time. I do ask whether they are running the same equipment and indeed same engine mapping.

Yes Vettel has had a few DNF's this year, engine related, which Webber has not. Tends to happen when you're harder on your equipment, when you go for fastest laps from 3rd position at the end of the race, when your engine is mapped to rev higher than your team-mate.... oops!

If Webber received the support from his team that Vettel has this year he would be champion already, long ago in fact. Alonso's little purple patch would have mattered little.

Ultimately, Webber stuffed up in Korea which may well be what bites him on the bum.

But, I think there's so much more to this situation than any of us know. Possible too that Webber has already signed on to Ferrari which is why RBR don't want to see him win it and take the #1 decal to Ferrari.

Either way, I don't think anyone can doubt that Vettel has absolutely had the team this year. Was cute early on when Webber showed he had the pace and could win a few race. Was great for the constructors too! I guess cute wore out fast once the team realised that Vettel could not convert Saturdays to Sunday.

Take 7 points off Alonso (Germany) and give Webber 7 points (Brazil) and the championship is pretty much over anyway. So, who's for a little 'team work'. Annoying that it's good for some, but not for all.

Vettel will have his championships, he has plenty of time. The 2010 WDC may well be remembered as the year that RBR did all it could to stop one of its drivers from winning.

[Ari]

PS:

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k288/arifromoz/Random/haters_gonna_hate.gif

[Tazio]

I've been thinking long and hard about this, and I believe this guy is an extremely shrewd salesman. He has won the championship, and now he is espousing his drivers to perform in a truly sportsmanlike manner without his interference.

He is marketing a product that is consumed by the mega megalitres over the world by sportsmen and their wannabees. Footballers think they can get a lift by gobbling this goop before running out onto the field - AFL players have confirmed this, and I'm willing to bet that NFL and NBA players do so too; after all, Red Bull gives them wings.

Now when you realise that the opposition markets their goop using insects, and Mateschitz has those wonderful men in their flying machines (which I marvel at in their excellence more than F1 drivers), and now comes that most noble of gestures in F1 where a driver unselfishly helps his team mate to win the championship. Man! no amount of money could buy publicity like that - this is priceless!!

Those insects publicizing that other energy drink just don't stand a chance - they will be squashed :eek: No doubt Mateschitz is agreat pitch /Tin Man. These products and there are so many, that you see kids with T-shirts, and competitors each sponsered by a different brand "Energy Drinks" at X-game events. Get them hooked on it very young. Never underestimate the gullibility of your average consumer. I can't speak with authority in regard to any other people but my own. Being that there are two generations younger than me that consume these beverages, (as well as my own) and knowing it was an Austrian company I just thought it was an American craze and another way to be driven harder for longer hours, which is needed to afford this vile cocktail and the medical bills that come along with it's abuse.
I also see it as a sign of the times. Fast food in a can. You can go anywhere in incorporated areas of Southern California and see lines of people trying to get their caffeine fix at so many different chains of Coffee Shops it's mind boggling. McDonalds even has designer coffee in numerous iterations.
Submitted for your viewing pleasure:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oOqM98Ga34&feature=related
Having an energy drink is a lot more convient. I grind and brew my own coffee I've had a cup in probably 30 different coffee houses in San Diego and LA alone. But as a general rule I have one cup in the morning and one at English Tea Time. I tried Red Bull one time but it tasted like a mixture of cough medicine sugar and, Jägermeister. I guess you could develope a taste for it. But at my age I have to cycle, lift weights, and go on a morning constitutional, and weekend Treks to feel good and be sure I don't develope type 2 Diabetes and stay heart healthy.
I do, and have for at least 20 years drank my coffee black, and I drink a lot of water to get that to process through my system. Like I said it’s a sign of the times. Any of these products can be enjoyed in moderation including sugar. But processed, hydrogenised protein and saturated fat, plus a diet high in sucrose, and other carbs' is a death sentence. But hey, that's no reason to get in the way of progress. That's kind of like breaking a deal with the devil.
Be Well
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atw6F47UCYM

[Tazio]

I've been thinking long and hard about this, and I believe this guy is an extremely shrewd salesman. He has won the championship, and now he is espousing his drivers to perform in a truly sportsmanlike manner without his interference.

He is marketing a product that is consumed by the mega megalitres over the world by sportsmen and their wannabees. Footballers think they can get a lift by gobbling this goop before running out onto the field - AFL players have confirmed this, and I'm willing to bet that NFL and NBA players do so too; after all, Red Bull gives them wings.

Now when you realise that the opposition markets their goop using insects, and Mateschitz has those wonderful men in their flying machines (which I marvel at in their excellence more than F1 drivers), and now comes that most noble of gestures in F1 where a driver unselfishly helps his team mate to win the championship. Man! no amount of money could buy publicity like that - this is priceless!!

Those insects publicizing that other energy drink just don't stand a chance - they will be squashed :eek: In the Southern Ca. he has plenty of competition. Apparently there are enough suckers for him and several other very successful brands that have skate boarders and Motocross events to prostitute those drinks
My god:
"What a gullible breed"

[pino]

Please let's stay on topic, thank you :)

[Big Ben]

Fully agreed!

I'm sure now Dex had very good night sleep.



Moral winners exist for those with strong moral values.

bobo solemne :laugh:

[Valve Bounce]

Please let's stay on topic, thank you :)

pino, this thread is about Red Bull's Mateschitz and his so called hyprocrisy, and so far the discussions are very much au point.

[pino]

pino, this thread is about Red Bull's Mateschitz and his so called hyprocrisy, and so far the discussions are very much au point.




He is marketing a product that is consumed by the mega megalitres over the world by sportsmen and their wannabees. Footballers think they can get a lift by gobbling this goop before running out onto the field - AFL players have confirmed this, and I'm willing to bet that NFL and NBA players do so too; after all, Red Bull gives them wings.

Now when you realise that the opposition markets their goop using insects, and Mateschitz has those wonderful men in their flying machines (which I marvel at in their excellence more than F1 drivers), and now comes that most noble of gestures in F1 where a driver unselfishly helps his team mate to win the championship. Man! no amount of money could buy publicity like that - this is priceless!!

Those insects publicizing that other energy drink just don't stand a chance - they will be squashed :eek:

The above post has nothing to do with the original topic, and we could easily end talking about Mateschitz, his life, his Company, etc..etc.. So please do as I say thank you.

[markabilly]

For RB, it only makes sense to say NO TEAM ORDERS

Why?
Because the only one who would have benefitted is Webber. Team orders would destroy Vettel's chances at the last race in brazil and now this race.....so they should and have easily justified their stance by saying we will not lower ourselves to the low life level of ferrari


they are even talking better no team orders and we finish where we finish, then to manipulate the result....but again that is only in Vettel's best interests right now....



well them there folks did not get filthy rich selling the red cow juice by being ignorant about how to sell crap to the public and get them to consume and love it :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


:beer: yuk still tastes like cow piss to me....

[Big Ben]

For RB, it only makes sense to say NO TEAM ORDERS

Why?
Because the only one who would have benefitted is Webber. Team orders would destroy Vettel's chances at the last race in brazil and now this race.....so they should and have easily justified their stance by saying we will not lower ourselves to the low life level of ferrari


they are even talking better no team orders and we finish where we finish, then to manipulate the result....but again that is only in Vettel's best interests right now....



well them there folks did not get filthy rich selling the red cow juice by being ignorant about how to sell crap to the public and get them to consume and love it :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


:beer: yuk still tastes like cow piss to me....

I don't dare ask how come you know how cow piss tastes like :laugh: :p :

[Bezza]

The above post has nothing to do with the original topic, and we could easily end talking about Mateschitz, his life, his Company, etc..etc.. So please do as I say thank you.

I disagree. I think sometimes conversations naturally go in a different direction, and it was a good post from Valve (for a change ;) ) Think you being a bit over-zealous there.

I have to agree that Red Bull have given the impression that they are frustrated that Webber is leading the championship. At every opportunity they have favoured Vettel, and at every opportunity when they should have favoured Webber, they have favoured neither.

It is clear that Vettel is the No. 1, I don't think he deserves that title though - and if Webber manages to beat Alonso and his own team marring his chances then it will be a very impressive championship indeed.

I dislike's Ferrari's team orders, but at least it is clear what is going on. With Red Bull, there are too many politics in the background, hidden agendas - in my opinion, a lot worse than what happened in Germany.

I'm sure a lot of it will come out in future years when Webber has left Red Bull. Could be as early as next season!

Unfortunately I can see an early Alonso mechanical failure leaving Vettel 1st, Webber 2nd. A fast Webber looks likely to beat Vettel in the pitstops but "by chance" the pitstop is fluffed and he loses 10-15 seconds and a place to Hamilton.

If Vettel became champion I would be very annoyed and for that reason, I hope that Alonso / Vettel take each other out early and it is a clear cut race for Webber!

[gloomyDAY]

For RB, it only makes sense to say NO TEAM ORDERS

Why?
Because the only one who would have benefitted is Webber. Team orders would destroy Vettel's chances at the last race in brazil and now this race.....so they should and have easily justified their stance by saying we will not lower ourselves to the low life level of ferrari


they are even talking better no team orders and we finish where we finish, then to manipulate the result....but again that is only in Vettel's best interests right now....



well them there folks did not get filthy rich selling the red cow juice by being ignorant about how to sell crap to the public and get them to consume and love it :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


:beer: yuk still tastes like cow piss to me....http://www.blogcdn.com/www.urlesque.com/media/2010/05/haterwashington.jpg

[wedge]

One minute Alguersuari was making an effort to keep position but then blatantly lifted before the braking zone to let Webber through and Jaime all of a sudden decided to make an effort to hold off Massa.

[F1boat]

STR and Renault was used against Ferrari and McLaren-Mercedes, it was like a DTM race :) But if it was so important for them to win with Vettl, what to say. Good job...

[wedge]

STR and Renault was used against Ferrari and McLaren-Mercedes, it was like a DTM race :) But if it was so important for them to win with Vettl, what to say. Good job...

Renault did nothing wrong. It was quite obvious sh** rolled downhill into the STR pitwall.

[ioan]

One minute Alguersuari was making an effort to keep position but then blatantly lifted before the braking zone to let Webber through and Jaime all of a sudden decided to make an effort to hold off Massa.

Alguersuari blocked Webber for more than a lap not for a minute!

[wedge]

Alguersuari blocked Webber for more than a lap not for a minute!

Enough time time for Marko to assess and make a call!

[ioan]

Enough time time for Marko to assess and make a call!

I suppose you've got his phone listings, I would be happy to agree if you can provide the proof.

[Dave B]

One minute Alguersuari was making an effort to keep position but then blatantly lifted before the braking zone to let Webber through and Jaime all of a sudden decided to make an effort to hold off Massa.
Nice conspiracy theory. It's obvious that STR would favour Red Bull over Ferrari, isn't it?

Except... hang on... where do Torro Rosso get their engines these days?

[Cooper_S]

I don't for one second believe any of this conspiracy BS, but for the sheer entertainment value on here I wish it were true...

[markabilly]

I don't dare ask how come you know how cow piss tastes like :laugh: :p :
Easy answer, I once took a sip from a can of red cow......learnt enuff

[tmx]

Nice conspiracy theory. It's obvious that STR would favour Red Bull over Ferrari, isn't it?

Except... hang on... where do Torro Rosso get their engines these days? I disagree because this is very clear to see in the race what Alguersuari did. I do think this is a form of "team order". Besides, both RedBull Racing and Torro Rosso are owned by RedBull. Surprise!

Funny that coincidentally (but I'm not blaming) Renault also helped RedBull by backing up Hamilton and Alonso. If Ferrari wanted an advantage in this case they would need a sister team to be their race helper.

I'm not taking anything away from Vettel's win though, I think he deserved it, but Webber deserved it more.

[ArrowsFA1]

Watching the early laps of the race I did wonder whether Mark Webber had been given a Toro Rosso to race :p

[Valve Bounce]

I disagree because this is very clear to see in the race what Alguersuari did. I do think this is a form of "team order". Besides, both RedBull Racing and Torro Rosso are owned by RedBull. Surprise!

Funny that coincidentally (but I'm not blaming) Renault also helped RedBull by backing up Hamilton and Alonso. If Ferrari wanted an advantage in this case they would need a sister team to be their race helper.

I'm not taking anything away from Vettel's win though, I think he deserved it, but Webber deserved it more.

No driver deserves a WDC - they go out and earn it, and I think this guy Vettel just did.

[Cooper_S]

I'm not taking anything away from Vettel's win though, I think he deserved it, but Webber deserved it more.

LOL... I bet you even said that with a straight face.

Let's see... He had LESS mechanical failures, LESS poles, LESS wins, LESS points and could not step up his game when it mattered... yeah I can see how you might think he deserved it MORE

[wedge]

Nice conspiracy theory. It's obvious that STR would favour Red Bull over Ferrari, isn't it?

Except... hang on... where do Torro Rosso get their engines these days?

And who signs Jaime's paycheck?

[Cooper_S]

Franz Tost :)

But just to throw you a bone for a moment.... why wouldn't STR have their own favorites, they are out of the championshop and so an oppertunity arises to give a tiny assist to their former star driver, the one who to this day provided them with their only pole and win... seem logical to me...

End of the day Webber sealed his own championship when he qualified 5th on the grid and he only got behind Alonso because Button passed Alonso...

Webber was the architect of his own demise...

[wedge]

Franz Tost :)

And who signed his paycheck?